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Engadget Editorial on the "Dark Side" of Android Hacking

Was wondering what my favorite dev community thinks about this Editorial by Nilay Patel of Engadget...
Excerpt:
...But hacking can definitely go too far, and Google doesn't provide any way for you to return to the original Android experience that shipped with your device -- you're at the mercy of the manufacturer and the carrier. Some manufacturers are better than others -- HTC provides updaters for many of its phones -- but some, like Motorola and Samsung, provide nothing at all. Once I left the reservation and installed that leaked 2.2 build, I was gone for good -- no official path back to the fold exists. That's not true on other platforms: if I was running a jailbroken iPhone, I'd just restore it with iTunes, and it would be factory-fresh with known software. That's simply not the case with Android, and it's a problem -- Google can't keep implicitly condoning Android hacking and trading on the enthusiasm of its community unless it requires manufacturers to provide restore tools for every device. Sometimes you just want to go home again.
In my ideal world, consumers would be able to download official stock Android builds for their devices directly from Google, but I'm not ignorant of the carrier- and manufacturer-driven reality we live in. For better or worse, Android's only "open" until the carriers get their hands on it. But Google should insist that every Android manufacturer and carrier release images of their customized firmware for every device as well as tools for easy restoration. It's the only fair way to treat the people who are hacking the platform and giving it the amazing momentum it has, and the only fair way to continue promoting the platform as "open" when in reality the carriers and manufacturers are doing everything they can to lock it down.
Go check it out at Engadget...

He's an idiot. That is all.

Interesting article I thought, and not really any kind of negatives against Android, more against the carriers I thought - like this bit (emphasis mine):
In my ideal world, consumers would be able to download official stock Android builds for their devices directly from Google, but I'm not ignorant of the carrier- and manufacturer-driven reality we live in. For better or worse, Android's only "open" until the carriers get their hands on it. But Google should insist that every Android manufacturer and carrier release images of their customized firmware for every device as well as tools for easy restoration. It's the only fair way to treat the people who are hacking the platform and giving it the amazing momentum it has, and the only fair way to continue promoting the platform as "open" when in reality the carriers and manufacturers are doing everything they can to lock it down.
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Link for those interested:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/23/editorial-the-dark-side-of-android-hacking/

I will agree it is interesting, I won't agree that his "Editorial" isn't anything negative against Android. He is directly attacking Google and inferring that Google should be held responsible for backups to stock is a phone is bricked amongst other little nuances...
I have been reading Engadget for years, and if there's one thing I am sure of, Nilay Patel is a gigantic Apple/iPhone proponent and it looks to me sometimes he is forced to write articles about Android. He took the picture of that DROID X being operated on with his iPhone 4 FFS... If it quacks like a duck. Topolsky needs to do some better delegating.

Sounds like someone screwed up their phone and isn't happy about it. I doubt they have that many custom roms for phones in India anyways.

PTown599 said:
Sounds like someone screwed up their phone and isn't happy about it. I doubt they have that many custom roms for phones in India anyways.
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I am not sure if that was a joke or not (haha if so).
If not, Nilay is not in India, he is in Chicago and works for Engadget which is an AOL owned Gadget Blog...
Either way, haha!

He bricked a review unit and then goes onto crib about it.lol

Here is what i want to post there but can't as am in office and not able to login to post a comment.
Dude you bricked a review unit and then you are cribbing about it. what a joke. people have bricked there only unit and got away with it like you did, this is the support of the devs out there.
Also, the title should be "Motorola not supporting devs" , and if you read the forums you can actually go back to the original factory shipped firmware on most of the android phones.
All the devs also publish a warning that you may brick your phone, I have bricked mine a lot of times and got it back to life always.
And you saying that you do not trust your device anymore is like lmao stuff because the same devs and the same forum unbricked your phone.
Last point - Why did you want to upgarde to 2.2 when it was a leaked build and not approved by the manufacturer. I'll tell you why because it was a review unit provided to you free of cost
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JustinDroid said:
I am not sure if that was a joke or not (haha if so).
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Yes, only joking.

I was reading that article and was almost getting mad that he would write something so awful and illogical. He mentions that the droidx has a battery bug because it drained while flashing and he had to hotwire it. He then claims on boot his battery was 70% the entire time.
He failed to realize he was charging his battery during the hardwire. /slaps forehead.
His foolishness is astounding. His reputation just went into the toilet. He should retract this article to save whatever reputation he has left.
I like android more than ios, but i would never expect apple or google to provide a safety net for those trying to bypass the security manufacturers place on a device.
However, I do wish all devices were open and allowed the end user to do whatever they please.

Idiot, yes; idiotic idea...? Not so much... Let's just take this for what it is, an excellent reminder to make an initial post-root nandroid backup and guard it like the Crown Jewels of England lol. For those that didn't hear the agtn show, he's as ignorant on the phone as he is in print and I think it's safe to say he won't be writing anymore editorials for a little while lol. Back to his point though, I think it would be awesome if the carriers and manufacturers showed some love and would post the most current and up to date handset/carrier-specific flashable recovery tool. Google shouldn't be held accountable, that's like saying gas companies are responsible for fuel economy and performance. It's not the fuel's fault, its the car... Same here, Google gives our beloved devices the fuel they need to run, its the manufacturers and carriers that add their own blend of herbs & spices to the mix, making for totally unique end user experiences. Just my opinion though
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App

I usually refrain from commenting on such articles as they're there to solicit and incite a response so many times intentionally cooked with stupidities and false exaggerations. The article was sensationalist. But I was honestly about to just post this link and mention the guy should either step outside into the real world for a few moments to achieve some balanced realistic perspective or just quit writing such if he can't control his urges to make an official article out of every useless and flawed thought that crosses his brain. He is twisting the best features into the worst. Dark side?
The article is riddled with extremely petty pedantics of few individuas being exploded into a major Android issue. Every individual does this at their own expense and is repeatedly told so and how to get back exactly to what we started with. This is Step 1 knowledge on here. What's so difficult for him to understand? It looks to me like absolutely nothing but a typical cheap shot at Androids revolutionary and unmatched development, flexibility and customizability, and one that is clearly false. The whole reason Android is shooting for the stars is due to consistent development finding solutions for each users problems and niggles.
That's called FUD, and it's trying to detract lay users from Android and its tweaking.
-----------------------------------
- Sent via my HTC Desire -

I don't even own an Android phone yet, but my first thought upon reading that was, "why didn't this idiot do a NANDroid backup?"

check out the author Nilay Patel at androidguys podcast.
the link
http://blogtalk.vo.llnwd.net/o23/shows/show_1223038.mp3
listen from 32 mins onwards...

If ANYONE isn't responsible enough or capable of simply backing up their device then they are in no position to install leaked ROMs, etc. Much less to complain when something goes wrong!

I feel allot of engadgets articles are like this! I really can not stand the site at all.
Its constantly apple this, apple that. As if no other phone exists!

daverobson08 said:
If ANYONE isn't responsible enough or capable of simply backing up their device then they are in no position to install leaked ROMs, etc. Much less to complain when something goes wrong!
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Well said. If your going to be using leaked ROMs always back up first! Simples.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

munchy_cool said:
check out the author Nilay Patel at androidguys podcast.
the link
http://blogtalk.vo.llnwd.net/o23/shows/show_1223038.mp3
listen from 32 mins onwards...
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Someone else said, before the server crash ate their reply, that this "podcast" sounds like a bunch of immature kids being stupid and talking over each other randomly without a coherent thought at all. I have to say I agree.

[Opinion] Android a Fragmented, Differentiated, and Misrepresented Platform - P2

Removed the OP in protest due to the abusive I endured by some XDA members. In spite of reporting them to the moderates of the forums in question and my views were shared with more members than the abusers one of my threads was closed instead.
To those truly care about technology and its surrounding matters, please accept my sincere apologies for this inconvenience. I will no longer be part of the XDA community. Thank you.

Holy ****, someone here has a massive grudge against Google and Android.
CSharpHeaven said:
Part 2
Applications & Games
The very exaggerated figure (over 400,000) by Google is only to generate market hypes and to give an impression how popular the Android platform is.
The truth is Google has used hundreds of thousands of hopeful individuals with prospect of success to submit anything to fight back Apple's App Store, only in terms of numbers that is. The chance to success, financially, on Google's Play Store is only very small for established vendors and even smaller for individuals when the competition exceeds by vast numbers. Think of the odds in lottery to come to the same conclusion.
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You see, you seem to be making contradictions on your own writing.
They never said 400,000 amazing super duper apps, they said 400,000 apps, no matter what quality.

Spell checker?
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

nejc121 said:
Holy ****, someone here has a massive grudge against Google and Android.
You see, you seem to be making contradictions on your own writing.
They never said 400,000 amazing super duper apps, they said 400,000 apps, no matter what quality.
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I'm glad you are not the only XDA member that can read.

what boggles me is that android is the first os that has gotten my trust, for better or for worse. as strange as it may sound, i like updates, i am happy when notifications drop in and i certainly read the changelogs and see what's new. no other OS has ever been able to do that to me. i am using windows at work, macosx at home and linux for website-server stuff. some of these systems are here for decades, and yet they have never really taken care of my needs. i have no trust in them and never had, i click away update nagscreens whenever i see them, i hate when firefox bugs me with it, i dont trust any application, i know they put their dump onto my harddrives, mess it all up from inside, they have brought their own installation/deinstallation scripts and deamons for updates that clog my ram and suck my bandwidth, they are unsigned and unsafe, they spam my screen with popups, i do not know what permissions they require and what api's they call - they do whatever the hell they want. i use them because i have to.
yes, android has kinks and problems, but this is the cleanest OS, from a users standpoint, i have seen and used. my technical background may be lacking but this was my first impression. and because of that i can deal with buggy apps just fine, i either tollerate it or uninstall and search for something works on the market. and for some crazy reason i enjoy it, although i hated it on pc/mac/linux. so in this regard i think the app-market is doing great. it is true of course that the quality from app to app varies alot, but many do have high standards and work flawlessly. i for one think it is good that the android market does not have severe restrictions, because updates can get pushed when a defect is found. you have the opposite on apple and i did read reports that state their apps generally crash more often, which makes absolute sense because each update must go through an odyssey of admittance. bugs itself will always happen, every programmer knows that, but the android market has made sure that we do not suffer from them as much as on other systems. the underbelly of android with its signing-mechanisms, permission-transparency, packet-installer, subtle notifications, etc., all this works for me and im using my desktop less and less for a reason.

molesarecoming said:
what boggles me is that android is the first os that has gotten my trust, for better or for worse. as strange as it may sound, i like updates, i am happy when notifications drop in and i certainly read the changelogs and see what's new. no other OS has ever been able to do that to me. i am using windows at work, macosx at home and linux for website stuff. some of these systems are here for decades, and yet they have never really taken care of my needs. i have no trust in them and never had, i click away update nagscreens whenever i see them, i hate when firefox bugs me with it, i dont trust any application, i know they put their dump into my systems, mess it up from inside, they have brought their own installation/deinstallation scripts and deamons for updates that clog my ram and suck my bandwidth, they are unsigned and unsafe, they spam my screen with popups, i do not know what permissions they require and what api's they call - they do whatever they want. i use them because i have to.
yes, android has kinks and problems, but this is the cleanest OS, from a users standpoint, i have seen and used. my technical background may be lacking but this is the first impression. and because of that i can deal with buggy apps just fine, i either tollerate it or uninstall and search for something works on the market. and for some crazy reason i enjoy it, although i hated it on pc/mac/linux. so in this regard i think the app-market is doing great. it is true of course that the quality of the apps varies alot, but many do have high standards and work flawlessly. i for one think it is good that the android market does not have severe restrictions, because updates can get pushed when a defect is found. you have the opposite on apple and i did read reports that state their apps generally crash more often, which makes absolute sense because each update must go through an odyssey of admittance. bugs itself will always happen, every programmer knows that, but the android market has made sure that we do not suffer from them as much as on other systems.
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Thank you for your inputs. I would like to clarify a couple of things, if you don't mind.
I have never made a comment about the Google Play Store's update process that updates the downloaded applications. Since you did, I do agree with you regarding the advantages you rightly addressed. What I might not agree with you is the trust where my credit card details can be added to the profile Google creates for all the citizens.
My point, that you responded to, was about the inability Android OS has to update itself the way, for example, Microsoft Windows or Apple's iOS can. Also the only thing Android can update on any Android handsets is the Google Play Store app. I found this very unfair when thousands of users, behalf the rest, were campaigning to push their respective manufacturers to release the next version of Android. During such campaign I fell ill from the distress. I cannot recall going through such similar experience in my 20+ in I.T. Believe me, being a software developer I can tolerate high mental pressures but that experience was something else. I don't wish anyone else go through the same experience ever and they shouldn't really.
I've been writing this article with the consideration of the bigger issues. I cannot conclude Android is a good platform based on a small technical convenience when I have vivid visions on what Google is doing with Android and beyond the mobile space.
If my ID suggests I must be a Microsoft's fan then allow me to say to the readers that I have only two Android phones which I use one of them to write my article and this response. Also I use an Android phone as my primary device, using up to three 1930mAh batteries a day. No, I don't watch movies on my phones but listen to music from time to time.

nejc121 said:
Holy ****, someone here has a massive grudge against Google and Android.
You see, you seem to be making contradictions on your own writing.
They never said 400,000 amazing super duper apps, they said 400,000 apps, no matter what quality.
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His name leads me to believe Microsoft Fanboi - C# is a Microsoft language very similar to java - but has enough similarities to be it's own language.
edit - you posted at a similar time to me.
I will read this from now on, but probably won't comment. I enjoy hearing what ppl have to say.

i have to use c# daily in my job, its great, my favourite until now. did you know that google once played with the thought to make it androids base language? read it somewhere. must be a myth though.
---------- Post added at 11:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:04 PM ----------
CSharpHeaven said:
I found this very unfair when thousands of users, behalf the rest, were campaigning to push their respective manufacturers to release the next version of Android. During such campaign I fell ill from the distress. I cannot recall going through such similar experience in my 20+ in I.T.
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well, i am certainly pissed that my older handset, the s2, caught a disease called touchwizz recently instead of the modern operatig system i was hoping for. but falling ill? come on, get another phone, an iphone maybe, or if you still have hopes for android a nexus, and all will be fine. i learned my lesson from this, i'll never, ever buy something that is not directly maintained by google itself. i heard some people really loved touchwiz and samsungs efforts, to each his own. i thing its nice though that you have the choice.

Update on ICS on GT-P6210!

<this page left intentionally blank>

*SIGHS*

Meanie face... *pouts in corner*

d**k <----oo

Sent from my GT-P6210 using xda premium

This has to be the most immature thing I've seen here in a while. Like people have said, it wasnt funny the first time.
Gary, you have a penchant for bragging about being some great dev, professionally and otherwise, so start acting like it. These types of threads dont help, and add nothing to the discourse. It just makes you look worse.

robyr said:
This has to be the most immature thing I've seen here in a while.
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Which part of this is immature? The part where I made sure that the sarcasm was in the first dozen characters of the message body - so that a mouse hover over the subject in the topic list would reveal it?
Or the part where I'm expressing my continued annoyance with the complete lack of realistic response from Samsung on this? (which is the point of the messsage - in case you missed it.)
As for being a great developer - this is actually quite tame compared to some of the things those better than myself (both of them, actually) have to say about samsung, HTC, and others.
I'm merely repeating what samsung's marketing department is already doing: Talking about a great ICS upgrade coming to these devices, but leaving the page blank when asked WHEN it's coming.
As for how it might make me look - I honestly couldn't care less. Because it seems to matter to you, however, I'll reveal that I didn't bother to shave this morning, and I haven't taken a shower since last night. Oh, and my shirt is wrinkled. (That has nothing to do with maturity - it's just laziness.)
Take care
Gary

laces sense of humor gently back into its hermetically sealed case:

garyd9 said:
night. Oh, and my shirt is wrinkled. (That has nothing to do with maturity - it's just laziness.)
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Thanks to Robyr, I was inspired to care how I might look. Therefore, I changed my shirt. Now it's not wrinkled. Thank you, robyr, for improving the world.
(Actually, I changed it because my cat decided to shed all over me. I just thought I'd BS a little. Perhaps it'll make someone feel more significant.)

Yeah gary, stop posting threads that play with the disrespect of samsung for us.
Sent from my GT-P6210

leodfs said:
Yeah gary, stop posting threads that play with the disrespect of samsung for us.
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Really... Wow. This is NOTHING compared to the comments I post on google+ whenever one of the samsung people write about their upgrades, new hardware, and support policies.

It should say 'Coming soon!' or 'Error Code 404: Page cannot be found'.

garyd9, At first glance I was kinda pissed about this thread then I saw the sarcastic humor in in. Then I laughed. Thanks for making my day.
I just hope that once ICS drops there is enough source to get CM9 to this device. The current ROM is laggy as hell. A nice ASOP option would be wonderful.

painter_ said:
I just hope that once ICS drops there is enough source to get CM9 to this device. The current ROM is laggy as hell. A nice ASOP option would be wonderful.
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I'd be dishonest if I didn't say that I'm close to giving up hope for this tablet. Samsung is treating it as a red-headed stepchild, and won't even release the full honeycomb sources so that the dev community can pick up the pieces and fix that which they either don't care about or don't have the resources to fix.
However, its not just this one tablet. I'm starting to notice a pattern with samsung... they do make nice devices, but once they have your money, you apparently are nothing more than excess baggage to them. Instead of giving us good support, releasing GPL'd source code, and delivering upgrades that they promised, they gave us an app we can use to complain with. I guess having an app spitting out scripted responses is cheaper than having a human doing it. It's not like you really need a human to say "it's coming soon."
They have resources developing a dozen new devices at a time (given their rate of new product announcement), but what resources are fixing the issues and keeping their existing product lines current? It doesn't seem like much.
Since ICS was released on the GSM galaxy nexus (8 months ago), how many new products has samsung released or announced? A couple tablets, and several new phones. How many existing products (which were promised ICS upgrades) have received that upgrade? Two (and at least the SGSII release was very buggy.)
Keep in mind that samsung has had the ICS sources for quite a bit longer than other companies.. Yet, other companies are upgrading their existing devices long before samsung is. Look, for example, at Asus tablets.
What does that tell me? It tells me that if I buy a samsung device, they'll treat me well for the 14 day return period, and then treat me like dirt. It tells me that a samsung device is a FOOLISH investment.
Samsung, you will NOT be getting my money for my next tablet purchase. I don't care how thin it is or how fast it might be. I'd rather have a supported product that's slightly thicker or has a slightly slower processor.
Take care
Gary

If I get a Samsung device I think it would be a Nexus as google should provide better support.
I've got a Galaxy S Vibrant and Gingerbread hasn't even been released for it. Thanks to developers here on XDA it's running ICS.

GTOJim said:
If I get a Samsung device I think it would be a Nexus as google should provide better support.
I've got a Galaxy S Vibrant and Gingerbread hasn't even been released for it. Thanks to developers here on XDA it's running ICS.
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Well you have to blame T-mobile on this. They are in control. Vibrant 4G has GB, Captivate on both Rogers and AT&T get GB, i9000 got GB long before that.

What is with ICS for GT-6201(EU 3g)? I Only see 6200 and 6210(EU wifi).
Can anyone help me?

erbeuter said:
What is with ICS for GT-6201(EU 3g)? I Only see 6200 and 6210(EU wifi).
Can anyone help me?
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same as with the one for GT P6200..STILL NOTHING!
but check out aorth's CM9 thread

Thanks bro, i have also a HD2 with ICS and the performance is awesome. So my tablet is making me crazy with the 3.2 version.

Tired of the complaints.

It's a new phone. It will have issues. Get over it. I've never seen so many people complain about something. It is literally the best phone you can get right now. If it doesn't work for you get an iPhone. I love this phone even with the issues it has. They will be fixed. Sorry just my two cents.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

It still amazes me that people complain about a new device having issues. This is HTC's new flagship device which has been created from the ground up. It's the first generation of said flagship line and is bound to have issues. Guess no one here had a 2g iPhone. Sure it was amazing, but I also had its short comings.
I returned my HOX cause they didn't have any available for exchange. Going to buy one tomorrow from Walmart. Can't wait to get it back.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Ddot196 said:
It's a new phone. It will have issues. Get over it. I've never seen so many people complain about something. It is literally the best phone you can get right now. If it doesn't work for you get an iPhone. I love this phone even with the issues it has. They will be fixed. Sorry just my two cents.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
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I started a thread like this and it was closed in about 5 mins or less. It seems like complaining on here is the norm and not the exception. There are definitely some issues here and there...luckily for me, they don't affect me too much because of how I use the phone. Every phone I have had has had issues...best phone made period. Glad you're enjoying it.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

powerwagon said:
I started a thread like this and it was closed in about 5 mins or less. It seems like complaining on here is the norm and not the exception. There are definitely some issues here and there...luckily for me, they don't affect me too much because of how I use the phone. Every phone I have had has had issues...best phone made period. Glad you're enjoying it.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
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I concur. It's ok to have threads like "Multitasking is a joke on this device", "Who else is returning their handsets?", "Disappointed w HTC QC" etc. but it's not ok to have a thread confronting the complainers. It's true that if you spend money on something and it has issues you're entitle to complain but srsly saying **** like "Im gonna return my HOX and buy an s3" is just plainly redundant. This phone is a complete new direction in manufacturing technology for HTC and the only thing I can chastise them for is the fact that they seem to rush it out, but I can totally understand that it has software/hardware issues. Instead of threatening to return and to buy from Samsung, why dont people just either do it and move on w their lives, or be patient and wait for a solution? Look at the screen flickering issue being incrementally solved as an example. Moreover, the S3 hasnt come out yet so stop it the comparing bs already. Werent the S and S2 plagued w issues upon launch as well?
Mini rant: Samsung hasnt changed their handset manufacturing or design since like forever (really I have a 2008 Samsung f480 or something and it looks reminiscent of the Galaxy line) so it's expected that their handset making process is more refined. It's not fair to compare an old-fashioned design w something as innovative looking as the HOX.

So, you are COMPLAINING about complainers? How is your topic any different from the rest? At least the topics where people complain about issues, helping raise an awareness of the problem, with a hope that the developers will fix them, while topics like this have absolutely no purpose whatsoever.

louis.b said:
"Multitasking is a joke on this device", "Who else is returning their handsets?", "Disappointed w HTC QC"
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The great news is that the SGS3 will be in people's hands in less than two weeks. If the launch goes like the i9100, and GN, the comparisons to "perfect" that we've been seeing will suddenly look pretty feeble. As they say, "he who laughs last, laughs best."
---------- Post added at 10:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 AM ----------
[email protected] said:
So, you are COMPLAINING about complainers? How is your topic any different from the rest? At least the topics where people complain about issues, helping raise an awareness of the problem, with a hope that the developers will fix them, while topics like this have absolutely no purpose whatsoever.
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There's little constructive conversation in the complaint threads. No one's trying to put their heads together to clarify and resolve a problem. They are ***** fests. The multitasking thread is a great example. 2/3 of the posts are just "OMFG, this is inexcusable" pile ons. And anyone that dares say it isn't bothering them is squashed like a roach.

I agree people need to stop *****ing. Nobody forced u to buy the device. If u don't like it return it. Otherwise stop *****ing.
Sent from my HTC One X using XDA

Its a new phone thread. Give it 2 months and all the trolling complainers will be on to the next phone with an irrelevant quadrant score that is 10% better.

[email protected] said:
So, you are COMPLAINING about complainers? How is your topic any different from the rest? At least the topics where people complain about issues, helping raise an awareness of the problem, with a hope that the developers will fix them, while topics like this have absolutely no purpose whatsoever.
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Yep...65 pages of the same people threatening to take their phones back will definitely help raise awareness.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

powerwagon said:
I started a thread like this and it was closed in about 5 mins or less. It seems like complaining on here is the norm and not the exception. There are definitely some issues here and there...luckily for me, they don't affect me too much because of how I use the phone. Every phone I have had has had issues...best phone made period. Glad you're enjoying it.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
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Click to collapse
I agree. People can complain for 65 pages about a new phone, but if someone creates a thread about being tired about all the *****ing, it gets closed immediately. The reply by the Mod was condescending and rude, yet he allows other threads to continue. No surprise though, it's the XDA way.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

BarryH_GEG said:
There's little constructive conversation in the complaint threads. No one's trying to put their heads together to clarify and resolve a problem. They are ***** fests. The multitasking thread is a great example. 2/3 of the posts are just "OMFG, this is inexcusable" pile ons. And anyone that dares say it isn't bothering them is squashed like a roach.
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So, what are you proposing about that particular? We should all just shut up, go with the flow enjoy the broken phone? Seriously, one thing is complain about something minor, like theme colors, another is something that makes the phone virtually unusable. The more people complain about such things, the more the manufactures get aware of that, the more chances they gonna do something about. Maybe perhaps we should get another topic where people can vote if they like it or not the multitasking is working?
Topics like this on other hand, has no practical or any other usage. That's my point.

[email protected] said:
Topics like this on other hand, has no practical or any other usage. That's my point.
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Actually, topics like this help to even out the discussion and see both sides of the story. A casual user would get the impression that the phone was garbage and no one likes it if all they read are complaints. It needs to be known that not everyone is complaining about the phone. The last thing anyone wants is a media blackout.
Sent from my HTC One X

Make a Complaint section?
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium

wbell1987 said:
It still amazes me that people complain about a new device having issues. This is HTC's new flagship device which has been created from the ground up. It's the first generation of said flagship line and is bound to have issues. Guess no one here had a 2g iPhone. Sure it was amazing, but I also had its short comings.
I returned my HOX cause they didn't have any available for exchange. Going to buy one tomorrow from Walmart. Can't wait to get it back.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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Seriously?
This is nothing like the first iphone. Android has been around a long time, Android 4.0 is like 7 months old. It's the same camera module from the year old SGS2.
What is so revolutionary? I like mine a lot, it's a slick phone, but it's not that groundbreaking.

[email protected] said:
So, what are you proposing about that particular? We should all just shut up, go with the flow enjoy the broken phone?
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Both Samsung and HTC have designed their products to meet the needs of millions of people. Along the way there were bound to be compromises. If any of those compromises don't meet your needs, don't buy the phone. XDA probably represents at most 5% of the phone buying public. For 25% of the 5% to think they can band together and try to make multi-billion dollar companies bend to their wishes is pretty naive. So by all means, have at it but don't ridicule the people that see the futility in some of the complaining.
Some of the features of the navigation system in my car drive me crazy and other members of its forum agree. It would be laughable for a small group of us to flame the manufacturer expecting them to revise the system because we don't like it. But yet, here on XDA, that's a pretty much daily occurrence. I don't like the way the automatic soap dispenser works on my dishwasher. Maybe I should gather up a group of fellow disgruntled owners and spam the manufacturer's Facebook page demanding they change it. If you want to send a message to a manufacturer stop buying their products. That'll get their attention a lot quicker than #neveragain campaigns. The GPS on the SGS (i9000) was in fact with no debate FUBAR. Owners launched the largest social campaign I've ever seen trying to get Samsung to fix it. Samsung never responded. They and Apple now share 90% of mobile device profits. Oh well, so much for that.
I don't know what you guys do for a living but decisions at large companies aren't emotional; they're statistically and financially driven. In cases like Asus and HTC unlocking their bootloaders it wasn't the rallying of the 25% of the 5% that made them rethink their policies. They were probably on the fence to begin with and the positive PR and low financial impact is what got them to change position. A device can easily meet the manufacturers financial objectives even if the entire XDA universe boycotted it. We're described as "enthusiasts" and make up a small but vocal part of the phone buying universe.
HTC's now on record saying multitasking is working as designed. Everyone here is still in their remorse period. You have two choices: 1) return the phone, 2) keep it and hope that since this is now on HTC's radar maybe there may be some future improvement. Option 3, which a lot of people seem to be taking, keeping the phone and *****ing among themselves isn't going to change how multitasking works.
Things like petitions and posting on social sites are fine. They are ways of communicating with the manufacturers and letting them know how some of their customers feel about their decisions. But as with everything, there's a time to call it a day and move on. This isn't a civil rights fight; we're talking about features on a phone. And of our "issues" probably 10% would even be noticed by the phone buying public in general.

BarryH_GEG said:
Both Samsung and HTC have designed their products to meet the needs of millions of people. Along the way there were bound to be compromises. If any of those compromises don't meet your needs, don't buy the phone.
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The problem here is none of such compromises are publicly available for users to weight their decision with, none of the reviews have mention such crucial flaws, they have some cons about colors in photos or phone being too wide, but nothing that would greatly affect user's experience with phone's usage. Customers will have to experience it themselves, which means they will have to buy it first. (for example LG Nitro HD has defective hardware compass and the only way to know about it to experience it yourself, because nobody is talking about)
In this particular case with multitasking, the only people who's not getting affected by it are the same people who shouldn't buy such phone in the first place, since they just wasting money on something they don't use to it's full potentials.
Also, the same logic as "don't like it, don't buy it" can be applied to the OP complaining about the complainers - don't like it, don't read it, move along. But, it's just does not work in our imperfect world...

[email protected] said:
it's just does not work in our imperfect world...
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On this, you and I totally agree. Part of what makes XDA fun (for me) is the difference of opinion. It's interesting to see what's important to people and how everyone uses their device differently. The battles always start when smart, knowledgeble, strong-willed people all try to get each other to agree. And I've never seen that happen here or anywhere else.

Imagine I'm making a thread like "Who else is not returning their HOX and dont give a **** about the Samsung Plasticky s3". Pretty sure it will be closed so quick my chair still doesnt get warm yet.

ECEXCURSION said:
Actually, topics like this help to even out the discussion and see both sides of the story. A casual user would get the impression that the phone was garbage and no one likes it if all they read are complaints. It needs to be known that not everyone is complaining about the phone. The last thing anyone wants is a media blackout.
Sent from my HTC One X
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No i think what is being said is that these threads dont help other users, they just are meant as a knee-jerk reaction to complaints threads. If you want to do what you are suggesting in your post, then you should start a thread along the lines of "I love this phone and here's why", not "tired of the complaints." That's just a complaint about complaining, plain and simple.

I also started a thread speaking of my problems with the one X and I got a bunch of people whining about my whining which I don't understand. And the point of the thread was not intended to go that route. Anyways I guess alot has changed here in XDA.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium

"AOSiP experiment"

Ok so basically I want to get this off my chest because this really bothers me and I strongly believe not all points will be accepted or seen as I do. Maybe some of you have heard of the "AOSiP experiment". If not read it here: https://forum.xda-developers.com/redmi-note-5-pro/development/rom-aosp-pie-t3829052/page125 last post thread is locked.
So where do we start? I've been here around some time (even before I registered I lurked around). To the people saying xda is full of troll lately and back than it was way better. No it wasn't. Trolls and ret*rds have been around since xda started the only thing really changed is there are telegram groups for every thing (why tho?) where they troll and harass in real time. The only rule I found about xda is : the cheaper the phone the ****t*er the community. (this might be a point you don't agree on). I strive to improve the community because I am a part of it. I try to be helpful when needed point to already asked question and provide logs. And really I didn't mind fight the trolls.
But now I have to fight troll users AND troll "devs"? Troll "devs", lul never thought of using this phrase but boi here we are. I get it you are tired of all the pubg and give me SOT spammers. But why don't you just make a private telegram group for the devs? What hurts me of the most personally is that the "devs", to prove a point, said: "we gonna f*ck over our normal userbase who appreciate your works btw "(or atleast did). So because you got trolled, you trolled back. Only it missed the target. The trolls won and it's no victory to let a mod (not even akhil himself) post that ridiculously statement and close the thread so there won't be any discussion.
Also why didn't you make up a kernel? Why do you take the name of a dev who did nothing to you and drag him with you. Do you know what messages @srfarias is getting now because you thought: "lul lets take his kernel". Or does your own standards don't apply to yourself? "Trolling / harassment is bad as long as its against us? Trolling another dude is fine, as long as we don't know him?" Don't believe me? Read it here https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=78978664&postcount=112
Don't get me worn the whole maintainer team of AOSIP did great work! But on a human level they are currently as low as it can get. I personally don't give a f*ck if they stay away because this kind of devs is what's I believe makes up a toxic community. (another controversial point I guess)
Yes this is mainly a rant and maybe I'm way to offended by the devs but I really have to take this of my chest.
Thank to all the devs working on android and not playing games with their user base. And sorry @srfarias for all the sh*t you are getting right now.
Have a nice day.

Sir what's going on?

I find it a bit weird as well that they care so much about what a few people say. They completely forget about all the people who don't say anything because they have no issues at all...

Turning this theme around is trolling. Enough, please. Let's stop criticizing as users or developer and start all over again to bring out the best in us. The developers who only sporten their work and the users only our support and thanks. Enough please

Exactly that! I completely agree to all points... I bought the device 6 months back just because I saw huge development and I was completely happy with all the alternatives out there. J really liked akhils' work with Derp and never had an issue... Seeing the way now the device taking completely getting abandoned from most of the major projects going on, which also helped smaller projects to get a more polished work for our devices, just because some majority of users can't even follow the instructions of flashing or even understand what they are talking about most of the times is really disappointing.
There is always a better alternative to keep the true userbase "happy" with your work.
Everybody could easily not care about the troll's, just annouce in XDA - if they still wanted - keep a closed forum and just release personal work. Get their feedback through GitHub or any other issue tracking platform with strict bug report "protocol" and ignore all of those "members" who are unable to provide useful feedback. But, all we got now is that we got trolled by those who don't even care to try all the steps in order to provide useful feedback...
Anyways, I still appreciate the work done in Whyred and for me the best I have to do is to move to another device which potentially has a better community and devs that knows how to not care about the trolls. as most of the devs should know that 9/10 times the fault isn't in the code but in the user... Especially when we are talking about ROM/kernel performance in games for example. In telegram forum I even saw a user asking if it was possible to update his chipset form sd660 to sd845 through kernel update. Should we even care to explain to any user with this attitude? This type is not even making a research about what he is tweaking on his device and the potential damages he could get by those tweaks...

i don't own this device, but someone linked me this post for some reason.
All i can say is, i have to agree on most points in the OP.
have a nice day all

I am really Sad for this situation, I don't even own the device... but oof.... Good luck guys.

Using other devs name-for-a-project just to f'ck around/troll the users is as low as it gets.
Oh, here is my very unpopular opinion: I have had nothing but trouble with AOSiP(both oreo and pie builds). I thought it was only on my side, cuz everybody shared how good and awesome and perfect AOSiP was. Ugh, the brutal battery drains I had with AOSiP and Derp...
Holy sh't, when I read what happened yesterday, I thought I was in the wrong hecking forum and not XDA. I am glad that AOSiP is gone at this point.
Trolls should be punished, all of them, no matter who they are and what work they have done! If the main problem is trolling, make the whole forum closed behind a sub and stop whining about people being trolls. Where the f'ck have you lived until now?! On another planet? Tough luck, humans have been trolling since forever. People have been illiterate since forever. They don't care to learn, they just consume! But... When you're a dev and you're supposed to be smarter then the bunch of trolls, yet you fall on the trolls' level, you lost that one, hard!
Also, I remember srfarias from before. He has always done his best and I was surprised he started working on this device! He was never malicious! Keep it up, srfarias!

He's not in a ****, everyone here (only with brain) already knows what just happened, so it shouldn't be a problem at all, Srfarias isn't a well known (yet) on RN5 community since it was his first (and perfect) work, that's why he got attacked and to be fair that's normal and expected especially from this community, if he was a known here and developing ROMs for RN5 like the others i can imagine a totally different reaction from the same who attacked him, but since he's not known here (again, yet) then no problem, **** his rights and **** his time that he spent on this great kernel, no wonder, this is the nature of people.
Go to any ROM's topic now and see the begging, please dev don't leave us, you're the best dev, no such issue here don't report any issue you can hurt the dev, please continue your awesome work dev, will you continue this project dev?....etc.
God bless you Srfarias with this community and have fun (i doubt )

Just a personal consideration: it's sad to see how a very restricted group of people can destroy a modding community.
I can agree with you but also with the devs.
Spammers, trolls, pubg extreme players, is that really important? I have no skills about building ROMs or kernels and i'll never try to do this but, why we can't just ignore this kind of people? Why all users need to lose a good ROM (i've installed AOSiP once, and i've loved it) for those spammers?
I really hope to see AOSiP team again here in our subforum, i haven't followed this question and this is just a personal thing, but it's nice to see people on this argument.
(Sorry for my english, i have no skills on languages too )

Totally man..these devs act so mature and stuff still do retarded stuff and blame the trolls (what was the whole point of telegram group?)
.
I'm gonna give slow claps to the devs who did this experiment.
Good job you won.
.
And when it comes to this case it's not the trolls who are spreading the cancer its the...you know who.
.
SRF (the dev of pureCaf) is such a humble guy and these guys HAD to F him up.
.
Anyways I'm glad that you (the ones that did this experiment) have stopped developing ?.
We have many humble and intelligent devs who dont do stupid stuff and blame it on trolls and don't ruin other devs life.
.
Peace.

I would agree with OP on some points, including that the experiment in question was debatable because it "contained" someone's work and it had directly impacted him.
But on another note, the experiment of similar sort was desperately needed to prove a point, which many people seem to have missed.
It was not aimed at PureCAF dev and his kernel per se, it was aimed at Whyred users of different profiles who have couple of things in common - disrespect, 0 knowledge, impatience and just bad manners in summary. I have been pissed of numerous times here because I try to add something useful to disscussion and development in a way, to help other users and devs, and then comes the horde of 10 users after my post with the exact same question which I (or anyone else) have answered, not to mention that there were numerous idiotic feature requests and useless bug reports.
One thing you have to remember, the ones who have issues will always be more vocal than those who don't. We all give feedback in threads of course, but you don't suddenly jump in PM to say hey great work, everything works, keep it up, where as those badly mannered people will spam PM's if something doesn't get fixed or even their request doesn't get considered, and those people will turn to disrespect, which has been shown here frequently.
The experiment was just a tip of the iceberg, because this kind of harassment goes way way back, and with presence of Telegram as an instant messaging app, you as a known dev are fuc*ed up.
The placebo effect, which is a powerful thing sometimes, has once again proved how many clueless people are present in this forums, and how much they have an impact on community nowadays.
I have used AOSiP + Derp for a long time, and my device has performed great with that combo since June last year, but others had issues, and that's expected as although our devices are basically the same, not all electronic devices are created equal.
And have to add, I have previously used 3 flagship devices from Samsung (older ones) and Sony and no, the community there wasn't even close to this.

Nah..the point of the experiment is great, a lil bit controvery move but I agree with them.
But I don't like some part of their last statement that seems attacking purecaf dev, as far as I know srf never talk bad about them, It is some users and adi (bootlegger dev) who mock derp because rom devs change to purecaf, but once again afaik srf never do that.
In the end everyone react very poorly in this situation, looking for someone to blame in this situation is not a solution.
We (user and dev) must respect each other, mocking other dev is never good, even it is only a joke.

Sir i think derp kernel mad because everyone changing from him

alexmason90 said:
Sir i think derp kernel mad because everyone changing from him
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Nah, it was much more than that, it pre-dates even this situation with PureCAF.
Guys, you'll need to see the wider picture, PureCAF kernel was not the problem, it was just the last straw. The problem lies within the community, in the nagging users themselves and the pressure they have been putting on devs.
I was expecting something similiar, I'm even surprised that it took this long, however the handling of the situation could have been better, I admit.

It's just some little kids fight, almost funny to watch actually. Ambitious and jealous people are like this, they have a tense nature.
Also, I don't believe XDA management is compotent enough. Even the website is using an outdated design and broken some parts.
Anyway, this was surely interesting to watch.

I've not read every single post, but none the less:
I've been with XDA since March of 2011. I lurked at least a year or so before that. I joined with my first smartphone ever, the HTC Desire. With every smartphone i've owned since, i was active in their respective forums. And from my personal (non scientific) feelings, the XDA community has been getting progressively "worse". I fondly remember the days where we spend days and weeks in threads talking about how to get android 4 to boot on hopefully outdated Hardware. Minor achievements where shared, several people where collectively working on something while having a nice and technical discussion. I loved coming here to hang out with the geeks and talk about the things i enjoy most.
But lately, i've just not bothered. It might be because it's my first Xiaomi, and the community is different from Samsung or HTC. I have not logged in in over 4 weeks and after coming back today i have not found a single thread that's actually usefull. Sure, Rom Releases are nice, but it feels a lot like Linux Distributions. All the same stuff with a different wallpaper and name on it. I won't **** on anyone actually putting his work out here. I highly appreciate that. But i feel the Gold Rush of Android development is done. And now here we are, complaining about what devs should and shouldn't do, and making the 100th thread about what rom has the best batterylife. I feel like most people that come here don't even care to do the bare minimum of research. That's frustrating. This used to be a place for people who enjoyed mobile devices and hacking on them as a hobby. Not a customer support forum for people not getting 20 hours of Screen on Time.
Yes, releasing a ROM with advertised changes you didn't make, and in the process using a devs name for work he didn't do is not a nice move. I can see where they are coming from and why they did what they did. It used to be a major offense against the devs to even ask for Features or ETAs. It was just not tolerated basically. We are basically doing open source development here. Want something done? Well bad luck. Do it yourself or wait for someone to do it. You are not paying anyone to do the work. Be greatfull for what our devs do and stop asking for more. If you want more, or faster, do it yourself.
I personally don't get anything of value out of XDA anymore. I've always been here to be part of the process. To be at the forefront of what's possible in mobile tech. I wanted experimental stuff and see things break for the sake of it. I enjoyed talking to devs about the process and getting insight into what's happening behind the scenes. I never came to XDA for the "best battery backup rom" out there. This is a community of interested people. Not a customer Support forum.

@domsch1988
it's not your personal feelings, it's the true fact
I think all the old users here feel the same, I've learnt alooooooooot from this community and I'm really grateful to everyone I've got something from him but now everything is really weird!
And i really liked this "Rom Releases are nice, but it feels a lot like Linux Distributions. All the same stuff with a different wallpaper and name on it" , it's like we are in Olympics, tons of ROMS and sharing the same bugs and sometimes full of bugs like the earlier releases of every android pie ROM here once Pie was out, why everyone was in a hurry to give a full of bugs ROM? glory or first Pie ROM maybe? instead of squashing the bugs and giving 3 or 4 perfect ROMS every day a new ROM with the same ****, and it's not only that, half of the ROMS now have 3 versions, the official, the modded or unofficial one and the one on telegram (the new disaster on XDA) WTF? and 90% of the developers here are not responding to any inquiries, yeah, i can clearly notice that.
Why they aren't working together and give their best instead of this mess if they really want to serve this community? I've seen many users here complain that they are confused and don't know which is better or with less bugs or will get regular updates.....etc.
About (the majority) on this community i think there's no need to talk since i really get bored and nothing will ever change here, sad but true.
And finally a new dev came here and gave us a prefect kernel and now he is involved without making any mistake, his crime is that he refused to see his work is being used from the others and without even asking or mentioning him, LOL!
Everything is getting worse here, and unfortunately from all not only the users.
Btw, Thanks for this post :good:

One quick reply: the general decline in the community is not specific for XDA, it is a general phenomena concerning the internet. In the beginning mostly the geeks and nerds used the internet. Now everyone is literally always online. Of course this includes all the idiots and a...holes, too.
And because most people think that nobody knows who they are while posting on the internet, civility went down the drain, too.
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Gandhi70 said:
One quick reply: the general decline in the community is not specific for XDA, it is a general phenomena concerning the internet. In the beginning mostly the geeks and nerds used the internet. Now everyone is literally always online. Of course this includes all the idiots and a...holes, too.
And because most people think that nobody knows who they are while posting on the internet, civility went down the drain, too.
Gesendet von meinem MI PAD 4 PLUS mit Tapatalk
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Since we are in a general talk topic I just want to say that this is the best and the KISS explanation ever given in forum. This really small paragraph you wrote can easily explain on it's own what happened to all technical communities!!!