So I got an Idol 3 5.5 that fell from 15cm off the ground and of course broke it's screen, so a friend gave me his old iPhone 4S as a replacement until I decide what I will do with the Alcatel. I'm a semi-professional photographer and have been using SLRs and DSLRs for some 15 years. I am astounded how good the camera on the 4 and (almost) a half years old iPhone 4s is, especially compared to the half year old Alcatel. But it's not that the iPhone is excellent (although it is), the Alcatel is, well, not so good.
So, here's a test I did. I photographed the same subject in the same lighting conditions (artifical constant indoor light so no variations in lighting between shots) from the same position, maybe a few milimeteres to the side (not farther or closer to skew the perspective/depth of field).
Photos in next post so I can add attachments to it
Are you kidding me, I can't post photos?
You should not have expected superb photo quality. The cost of the phone speaks for itself.
Can't tell if you are trolling or not.
How are you a semi-professional photographer and comparing an iPhone to the Idol 3. There is more to cameras than just megapixels you know and Apple is known for having top-of-the-line cameras in their phones. Also, if you are an avid photographer, why did it take you getting an iPhone in order to confirm that you don't like the Idol 3 photos?
lying about what though? I don't think they claimed to take better pics than an iphone 4s?
OK guys, it would all make much more sense if I could post photos, but I was actually not comparing the photo quality from iPhone and Alcatel, but rather the exposure values, where the EXIF suggests that the lens on the Alcatel is not f/2.0, but actually something smaller. In the same lighting conditions the iPhone photo had these values:
f/2.4, 1/20s, ISO 200
and the Idol 3:
f/2.0, 1/50s, ISO 1800
and this suggests that there is significantly less light coming to the chip of the Alcatel (almost three stops less). I have tested the exposure value of this situation with my Nikon and it is in sync with the iPhone EXIF values. Also, depth-of-field of the image on the Alcatel when compared to the iPhone is also confirming this. I'm not here to bash Alcatel and would actually be glad if anyone could prove me wrong! Maybe my unit is defective?Please, try to shoot the same frame with the Alcatel and some other camera and compare the exposure values.
I wouldn't say they're lying.
The sensor on the Idol 3 is a Sony IMX214 which has an aperture of f/2.0.
It's a very good sensor, but the camera lens is not as good as the sensor used.
The Nexus 6 & OnePlus One have the same sensor, but the lens used are far superior than one ones on the Idol 3. (Same f/2.0)
I'll say again, the price of the phone speaks for itself.
Sent from my 6045O using Tapatalk
Yeah I know that this sensor is used in a variety of cameras and have seen images from the 1+ and they were great! But again, I'm not talking about the quality of the image, I'm talking about it's objective performance in terms of the amount of light that comes to the sensor which seems to be less than they state it should be.
I just remembered that the camera app has that "Pro" mode which makes it possible to manually input the ISO and shutter speed so I will try to do it again comparing it to the iPhone, DSLR and my wife's Sony T3 later today.
I'm sure they used a lens of lower quality but it shouldn't block almost three stops of light compared to other lenses.
Hemidrosis said:
I wouldn't say they're lying.
The sensor on the Idol 3 is a Sony IMX214 which has an aperture of f/2.0.
It's a very good sensor, but the camera lens is not as good as the sensor used.
The Nexus 6 & OnePlus One have the same sensor, but the lens used are far superior than one ones on the Idol 3. (Same f/2.0)
I'll say again, the price of the phone speaks for itself.
Sent from my 6045O using Tapatalk
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1 -
mrkva123 said:
I'm not here to bash Alcatel and would actually be glad if anyone could prove me wrong!
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and in topic you said that Alcatel is lying.
2-how you managed to shoot photos with your idol3 when it has a broken screen? Cant it be,that your idol3 camera chip or camera lenses are affected after the fall of the device?As a photographer you should know that there is heavy postprocesing and when you use poorly written software it is also bad as hell.
3- you can show usThe pictures using a link to a cloud where you can upload it.
4-The picture quality is not only made by chip. There are also lenses and a software. You can see it everywhere on chineese low budget phones. They use IMX214 bud bad optics and poor software and the pictures look bad. Also you can see it on Alcatel idol3 app that the app has a problem with propper exposure recognition (i have always to tap to a screen on a place i want to have propper exposure metering from).
So in end effect i dont defence ALcatels picture quality it can be far better with software optimalisation. But as many users said before, you cant compare iphone camera to idol3 camera. They are on different levels and as a photographer you should known that time of release is not a comparable fact (you mentioned 4 years old iphone 4....).
Anyway ...who cares?
I'm not saying that they are lying definitely but I'm just asking cause this sounds strange.
Yeah, I can use the phone although its screen is broken since only one part (lower) of the screen is not functioning and the phone is flippable, so I need to constantly flip it to use different parts of the screen.
I sincerely doubt that the fall damaged the camera or any parts of it cause everything works, no artifacts or anything else.
Once again, this has nothing to do with the quality of the lens, chip, software or anything else. Image shot at f/2.0, 1/50s and ISO 200 will have the same exposure value (it would look to be equally light or dark) whether it was shot on an Alcatel Idol 3 or a professional Hasselblad medium-format 50 000 € camera or a film camera, or a camera obscura. Exposure is objectively measurable and is expressed with these values, nothing to do with the quality of the parts used and nothing to do with the quality of the photo, it's just the amount of light, not the quality of it or the image!
I have uploaded the photos to a image hosting service but I can't link to them, I tried numerous times.
DallasCZ said:
1 - and in topic you said that Alcatel is lying.
2-how you managed to shoot photos with your idol3 when it has a broken screen? Cant it be,that your idol3 camera chip or camera lenses are affected after the fall of the device?As a photographer you should know that there is heavy postprocesing and when you use poorly written software it is also bad as hell.
3- you can show usThe pictures using a link to a cloud where you can upload it.
4-The picture quality is not only made by chip. There are also lenses and a software. You can see it everywhere on chineese low budget phones. They use IMX214 bud bad optics and poor software and the pictures look bad. Also you can see it on Alcatel idol3 app that the app has a problem with propper exposure recognition (i have always to tap to a screen on a place i want to have propper exposure metering from).
So in end effect i dont defence ALcatels picture quality it can be far better with software optimalisation. But as many users said before, you cant compare iphone camera to idol3 camera. They are on different levels and as a photographer you should known that time of release is not a comparable fact (you mentioned 4 years old iphone 4....).
Anyway ...who cares?
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I use the app A better camera for making photos and especially indoor photos are much better than using the standard app.
It's made by Almalence which is also making the software for some phone and camera manufacturers.
so, here are the images
first I shot with the iPhone since it can only shoot full auto:
http://imgur.com/CE9xNOc
EXIF says that it's:
1/20 sec, ISO 160 and f/2.4
So I set the Alcatel in the manual mode as follows to be as close to the iPhone shot:
1/30 sec, ISO 200 and the aperture is according to Alcatel, f/2.0 (although when I shot it in manual mode the aperture value is mysteriously omitted from the EXIF). the photo from the Alcatel should be brighter on these settings!
and here's what we get:
http://imgur.com/7d7c407
Once again, this has nothing to do with quality of the camera or any other parts involved, it's not that the Alcatel is worse, it is wrong.
And I finally managed to post photos
can someone please take a photo with the Idol 3 and some other cellphone in the same lighting conditions and scene just to confirm this?
you can check the EXIF values here: http://regex.info/exif.cgi
and write down the exposure values that you get from both phones.
mrkva123 said:
And I finally managed to post photos
can someone please take a photo with the Idol 3 and some other cellphone in the same lighting conditions and scene just to confirm this?
you can check the EXIF values here: http://regex.info/exif.cgi
and write down the exposure values that you get from both phones.
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i see what are you trying to tell, but i as i said, its a mobile phone i dont care.
But as i remember, there was same issue on my previous ZTE V5..the first firmwares said,that the aperture is 2.2 ...people complain about it and they have corrected it in next firmware.
So here can it be also. Ask on redit or in main XDa QA section, maybe someone who better understands optics and photograpy will tell you.
easyriider said:
I use the app A better camera for making photos and especially indoor photos are much better than using the standard app.
It's made by Almalence which is also making the software for some phone and camera manufacturers.
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Awesome! Just installed it and it is definitely the best camera app I have used on this phone. :good:
TallTommy said:
Awesome! Just installed it and it is definitely the best camera app I have used on this phone. :good:
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Agree! Because of you I gave it a try, amazing app + Now it's on sale. Wow
I don't know whether they are lying about the specs of the camera but mine is constantly collecting dust on the inside of the rear lens (already had it cleaned once and it is starting again). Never happened with any other phone I ever had and basically renders the rear camera useless within few weeks.
petertakov said:
I don't know whether they are lying about the specs of the camera but mine is constantly collecting dust on the inside of the rear lens (already had it cleaned once and it is starting again). Never happened with any other phone I ever had and basically renders the rear camera useless within few weeks.
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I have no single piece of dust on my camera..i have it for about 9 months allready.
My camera is also perfectly clean after more than half a year. I don't think they are lying about the specs. I suspect that the problem here is in the t-stop, which no lens manufacturer ever tells you about. The lens on the idol 3 is probably f/2 as they claim, but the amount of light that reaches the sensor has almost nothing to do with the f-stop, it's the t-stop that determines that. You can't actually rely on the f/stop for exposure (though it's a good approximation, usually), the f/stop is really only accurate for the depth of field that you get. I suspect that the t-stop on the idol 3 is lower than the one of the iPhone, while the t-stop of the iPhone happens to be more similar to the one of your DSLR lens. Though I have to say, the exposure difference in the photos you posted is very dramatic, maybe about 2 stops? I don't know if the t-stop can cause such a big difference.
That said, you could also easily test if the idol 3 camera is actually f/2. The idol 3 has a 6.1mm x 4.64mm sensor, and an 3.8mm focal length. Considering the sensor size, the crop factor is 7,2. As you probably know, the crop factor not only affects the focal length, but also the f/stop (and in fact also the ISO, but that doesn't matter now). So the idol 3 has a 35mm equivalent f/stop of f/2 x 7,2= f/14.4 (as far as DoF is concerned, not the exposure, obviously. This is the reason that it's so hard to get nice background blur on photos from smartphones unless you are very close up, it's because they have crazy small apertures like our idol 3 here at f/14.4. Again this is ONLY for DoF, not exposure. Basically because the sensor is very small, the aperture being small doesn't matter for exposure, the amount of light per pixel is about the same as if it was f/2 with a 35mm sensor.)
So, you could grab your Full Frame DSLR, set it to 27,4mm and f/14.4, (or if you have a 1.5x crop sensor DSLR, at 18.2mm and f/9.6), and then take a test picture with that DSLR and one with the idol 3. It's a DoF test shot, so take that into account when taking the photos (maybe set up a couple of items in a row, get them in frame in the same way on the idol 3 and DSLR, and focus on the frontmost item). The pictures from the DSLR and idol 3 should look about the same, DoF wise. The idol 3 will likely be noisier and not as sharp, and the exposure may be different too, but if the DoF is very different, then the idol 3 is not f/2. Setting up the DoF test shots might be tricky, because the minimum focusing distance is probably very different on the idol 3 and DSLR, but if you take these test shots we will at least know for certain if it is f/2 or not.
petertakov said:
I don't know whether they are lying about the specs of the camera but mine is constantly collecting dust on the inside of the rear lens (already had it cleaned once and it is starting again). Never happened with any other phone I ever had and basically renders the rear camera useless within few weeks.
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"Dust in the lens, all we are is dust in the lens..." lol No problems here, and everyone is free to do what they want with their phones, but I assume you are not using a full coverage case? I really can't believe some of the things I see people complain about when they don't use a quality case, and nowadays, a 9H glass screen protector. Not picking on you, and it's possible, even likely you got a bad unit. But "I dropped my phone, and I can't believe the pos shattered! I read it had blah blah next generation glass!" That one really makes me laugh.
And as far as the camera, There are lots of options for downloading/porting other cameras, with better settings and software. It's a $200 cell phone, and taking good pics is something that is important to me, so I always do a little searching on the forums of the new phones I get. I only paid $109 from Cricket, but even at $249 retail, what you get for the money is an amazing piece of technology, not a dedicated top of the line camera. And picture quality is somewhat subjective when you are talking about contrast, exposure, and saturation. Just one man's opinion....
I've been honor 8 since one week and i have found one thing that when even i cover right side lens it capture black image but when ever i cover left side sensor it's take snappy sharp image like it's ideally take . So i think so it's just fake second camera is dummy or any other problem ? please let me know i'm worried for my money
Are the pictures good? If so then don't worry about it.
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From my experience the second camera is mostly used for background blur effect. If you cover the lens, everything is in focus.
It is also used for minor noise reduction. If you take a picture in low light and cover the secondary lens there is a little bit more noise. But you won't really notice it unless you enlarge the image.
well the fact that when you block one lens, the other works is proof that neither is dummy. perhaps the post processing is not that dramatic as you were expecting. try taking low light pics with both and just the normal lens then compare them by zooming.
no difference found
I've tried in low light too but second lens is just a fake . it's don't enhances quality i think so i have to wait for android N update
sn9691 said:
well the fact that when you block one lens, the other works is proof that neither is dummy. perhaps the post processing is not that dramatic as you were expecting. try taking low light pics with both and just the normal lens then compare them by zooming.
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I love the pictures the Honor 8 takes when using the Wide Aperture mode. It seems the second camera is essential for creating the blur effect. If you haven't noticed you can go into the Stock Huawei Gallery and adjust the wide aperture pictures after the fact. Even if you took a picture that looked like you focused in on the wrong thing, just go into the Gallery, click on the wide aperture button (only shows up on wide aperture pictures) and select what you wanted to focus on.
Sure enough, without the second camera the wide aperture mode doesn't work properly if at all.
Second lens is for focusing, depth of field, and additional light. As well, when covering the second lens, it persistently gives a warning about not covering the lens while shooting, especially when refocusing. I think this should be enough to disprove your "fake camera" theory.
I am wavering between buying an s10e or an s10. In favor of the s10e: I prefer the size of the device and I like that there is a slight bezel on the left and right of the screen. However, it doesn't have the telephoto camera. I found that zoomed photos with the telephoto on the s10 are quite a bit sharper. On the other hand, I seriously dislike the s10's infinity screen. It warps the egdes of photos, web pages, etc. So, it comes down to how much advantage the telephoto camera provides. If it's not so important, I'd opt for the s10e. I'd like to see some opinions about the necessity for the telephoto. BTW, I realize the P30 has 3 cameras and a flat screen, but it's not the horse I want to ride - no wireless charging, no IP68, so-so sound, probably even worse at updates the Sammy.
All depends what you want.
Yes, a dedicated zoom camera makes better zoom photos.
But, even with image stabilization it is harder to get good shots that are not blurry. I never used zoom on a phone. But i can tell you that since i have the S10e i do mostly 2 photos with the standard cam and than with wide angle. Wide angle does interesting photos.
It is good to have
I don't take photos all too frequently, and when I do I never use zoom. It degrades the quality of the image quite a bit, be it optical or digital.
Since asking this question, I took time at a local store to play with the 10 and 10e. I set both to 8x zoom, since that is the max zoom for the 10e. There is quite a noticeable difference. The 10e had lot of noise and the 10 didn't. In fact, at 10x, the 10 still had a clearer image than the 10e. Now, if I could just come to terms with the curved screen and the weird edge reflections.
Not at all to me but i wish samsung went for the same wide angle lens on huawei mate 20 pro, usable in close up shots and gets amazing photos.
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I don't think it's that necessary... When you get 5x or 10x optical then it's cool, but 2x nah... I think the ultrawide is more fun
Getting a 10e here. But wondering how much worse the live focus will be without the Tele lens. Anyone have the experience?
Any one able to compare the camera with the Samsung S10? Is it better or worse?
Having both phones, I can say it's worse.
The main issue really is the exposure and whatever HDR+ algorithm they're implementing in the stock camera app. Even though they said it's the same HRD algorithm that was applied by google for pixel phones, I still think it's over exposing everything especially the low tones and shadows - this produce a very unnatural looking picture. (If I wear a black shirt, my pic came out as if I'm wearing a gray shirt due to overexposure on the shadows).
On the other hand, I'm really loving the flip camera and the ability to use wide angle for selfie/group selfie and video. That is definitely the highlight of this hardware. But I will be lying if I say I'm not struggling to love the quality of the pictures produced by this phone.
Have you tried the GCAM port? for me it produces better pics...
The Asus stock camera is hit or miss. Too inconsistent for me, especially the HDR++ mode.
But with arnova's GCam port it is simply amazing and blows away even the pixel 3 cameras.
The wide angle camera in our Asus does not focus as good as the main camera ..try it..also the slow motion videos are not that sharp and crisp.
baymon said:
Having both phones, I can say it's worse.
The main issue really is the exposure and whatever HDR+ algorithm they're implementing in the stock camera app. Even though they said it's the same HRD algorithm that was applied by google for pixel phones, I still think it's over exposing everything especially the low tones and shadows - this produce a very unnatural looking picture. (If I wear a black shirt, my pic came out as if I'm wearing a gray shirt due to overexposure on the shadows).
On the other hand, I'm really loving the flip camera and the ability to use wide angle for selfie/group selfie and video. That is definitely the highlight of this hardware. But I will be lying if I say I'm not struggling to love the quality of the pictures produced by this phone.
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Agreed, that there is sometimes overexposure, but I like more Asus camera's bright photos instead of GCAM darker photos. GCAM is better in very dark, but I prefer Asus camera often, specially for low light photos. Well, I have exposure compensation + 0,4 in GCAM, but still ...
I can easy say that this is the best cellphone camera on the market now, I installed Gcam and activaed raw.
I have never seen a phonecamera produce such a good raw files, even in low light.
Skintones, natural colors is great on this camera, Samsung, Sony, Huawei. and lot of other manufactors are terrible when it comes to natural skintones, overuse of noisce reduction....
Also the 4K 60fps is very natural and doesn't have the unatural look that almost every other brand have.
i bought this phone because he came with flat screen, and small factor , on of the the down sides (besides 12MP) in this version no telephoto lens
in my opinion you can just do a panorama for 3 seconds, but you can't mimic x2 real zoom
my last phone was 24 mega pixel (about twice pixels i checked and there's a big different especially that Samsung do alot of softing going on, leave the raw option aside)
but my last phone was pretty bad in night mode (ofcourse it not the might reason i switched , samsung is pretty good at night(not like pixel or p30 but good)
I have been into photography for some 55 years and have always favoured a standard and wide-angle lens for my cameras. If I could choose only one it would be a wide-angle. It pleases me more to approach my subject to get a closer vantage point should I need to do so. I have never enjoyed a telephoto lens - it reminds me of using a pair of binoculars. A zoom lens is even worse, IMO. Lazy photographer stays put and uses a zoom lens to frame his/her subject. There is something special about a wide angle lens. I previously had an iPhone XS and very, very rarely used the telephoto but often wished I had a wide angle lens. I like what Samsung has done with the S10e.
I'm finding the photographs I take on my S10e as good as, and often better than, my iPhone XS. Night mode to me is rather odd. If something about a dimly lit scene attracts you and you take a photo which makes it look like it was daytime, you have a photo which is markedly different to what you saw. It's a fad and IMO people use it because it is a 'feature'.