Related
here the test and review by GPS PASSION
http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=105771
energy59 said:
here the test and review by GPS PASSION
http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=105771
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This device, as attractive as it may be, is starting to rack up some real negatives:
1) the confused (for consumers) situation with the Qualcomm chip and the US Court injunction (what effect may that have on overall sales and consequently warranty, quality control etc ?)
2) variations in build quality (sliders, screens unglued etc)
3) constant WWE ROM supply problems and high prices
4) the ongoing argument over video drivers (may not be a real issue, since it seems unlikely to me that any class action will actually occur)
I'm getting a small amount of "sand in my shoes"
I wonder: why are we bashing this device more and more lately? The more we bash, the less people buy, the worse TC sales are, the less support we'll get and eventually we might wind up with NO software updates at all..
So let's try to think about the positive things shall we
ianl8888 said:
1) the confused (for consumers) situation with the Qualcomm chip
2) variations in build quality (sliders, screens unglued etc)
3) constant WWE ROM supply problems and high prices
4) the ongoing argument over video drivers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1: is a non-issue, by the time in 2009 when HTC will need to use a new chip, this device will have been replaced in all likelihood, or will have a slightly different chipset. No problem.
2: I've not heard of any problems, slight noise from a screen and concerns here and there, but no issues with previous build so why this one? Anyway, you get a defective one, you return it!
3: supply will level in a month or two, place an order now and you should have it early Feb. The fact that it's popular should tell you a lot.
4: again is a non-issue - either you want a multi-purpose phone like this or you don't. The video will be as released, I don't believe anything more will happen with it. It's fine as released for general purpose stuff...
Essentially, if you wanted a high-performance video device this one was never for you; if you want a great PDA phone it is. Make your choice. For me build quality is excellent and the rest is of no importance.
If you want great video performance buy a Cowon iAudio A3 (I got the A2), great rendering to high resolutions too in widescreen format, bigger and heavier than the TC but good for all your video/audio/FM radio/pictures/document needs. No input possible of course. That's why I needed the TC
SabbeRubbish said:
I wonder: why are we bashing this device more and more lately? The more we bash, the less people buy, the worse TC sales are, the less support we'll get and eventually we might wind up with NO software updates at all..
So let's try to think about the positive things shall we
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Simple.
Post cognitive dissonance:
http://www.ciadvertising.org/sa/fall_03/adv382J/mbabbott/advertising.htm
There have been high expectations from the device for a long time, combine that with the difficulty in actually getting hold of one and a couple of new models from other manufacturers on the horizon, and those expectations will change. Cognitive Dissonance is a much more difficult problem for companies to manage these days, mostly because of the internet.
I must say, truly interesting! And indeed I've caught myself luring to Eten and LG devices, but none are up to the TC challenge imho.
All i can say is i am right with rickgillyon.
Everyday, i am happy to have TC.
GPS, sound, screen, weight, radio, phone are perfect.
A lot of Applications are available.
I haven't buy this device for video but if it works well, i will use it some times.
Ziggy
fishes234 said:
Simple.
Post cognitive dissonance:
http://www.ciadvertising.org/sa/fall_03/adv382J/mbabbott/advertising.htm
There have been high expectations from the device for a long time, combine that with the difficulty in actually getting hold of one and a couple of new models from other manufacturers on the horizon, and those expectations will change. Cognitive Dissonance is a much more difficult problem for companies to manage these days, mostly because of the internet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True enough, although I have not yet made a decision to dissonate about. I had been somewhat interested in the ETEN X800 until some independent tests showed a slowness in its response - some people report it is now improved with some ROM changes, others don't think so.
My decisions tend to be based on the actual experience of the product - paper specifications simply weed out those that do not interest me to start with.
It's also interesting that the optimists here discount issues - eg. one reply to my "sand in my shoes" post suggested that by 2009 the Qualcomm Court injunction will be irrelevant as HTC will be using a different chip. But I don't really intend to change devices annually, so for me it is a potential issue, particularly as the outcomes cannot be easily predicted.
Supply is an issue - we've been given way too many false dates since August to believe "the next one". And there has been no real attempt at an explanation - but given the seemingly unglued screens and flimsy controls reported on some units, quality control on production issues may be a factor. Simply returning it is a very last resort, especially from O/S. It's far better to avoid the problems to begin with.
But then, without the optimists life would be dull I suppose. Even when they quote posts selectively ...
ianl8888 said:
It's also interesting that the optimists here discount issues - eg. one reply to my "sand in my shoes" post suggested that by 2009 the Qualcomm Court injunction will be irrelevant as HTC will be using a different chip. But I don't really intend to change devices annually, so for me it is a potential issue, particularly as the outcomes cannot be easily predicted.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The outcome is already known, replacement chips are ready according to Qualcomm, and you won't have to change your device - they won't make us hand our phones back in...
As I say, it's a non-issue for the end user.
rickgillyon said:
The outcome is already known, replacement chips are ready according to Qualcomm, and you won't have to change your device - they won't make us hand our phones back in...
As I say, it's a non-issue for the end user.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've discussed this out in another thread - so repetition is pointless. If you believe Qualcomm's rationalisations (after they have been convicted of knowing patent infringement), then I have some shares in the Sydney Harbour Bridge for you. Cheap, too. Such chips need to be fabricated, then assembled in new devices for testing. Qualcomm's "new" chips are also subject to a further Court examination next February before design release- the time and results of that are not predictable.
I'm not suggesting that the devices already sold will be recalled - do you understand the term "straw man" ? If world wide sales of the P3650 are repressed through this issue, HTC will reduce development and support for this model as fast as it can ... that's the core of my comments.
It's racking up real negatives. The only defence to this is cool examination of potential outcomes, or risk wasting money.
Chips need to be fabricated? Really? I'd never have guessed...
Fact is that Qualcomm, naughty as they undoubtedly are, have been working on this problem for some time as they knew they would lose. I see no reason to doubt that chips will be ready, and will be available. The reason Qulacomm will be hurrying out a replacement is to avoid the punitive commission they are paying right now.
HTC support? Surely you're kidding?
If, as you say, the issue stretches beyond early 2009, and supplies stop in early 2009, what's the difference? How often have you seen real support or development of an HTC product after the first few months? IME that support and development only comes in the cooked ROMs.
This still looks to me like the best device available right now, and with Qualcomm and HTC able to use the chip until 2009, not much of an issue for us. What's the alternative?
I am surprised at the amount of stick this device seems to be generating. I bought it as a replacement for my original Touch as I missed 3G and I have to say it's a fairly stunning device. Build quality on my unit is excellent, the slider and the scroll wheel are firm and responsive. The unit itself performs what I expect of it: PDA, email, fast internet. I fully expect this to be my longest lasting phone for quite a while, easily until end of FY 2009/2010. Problems like video drivers etc I don't really understand, it's adequate for a phone. If I want to watch videos I tend to use a full video capable device (eg PSP) rather than try to watch them on a phone.
SabbeRubbish said:
I wonder: why are we bashing this device more and more lately? The more we bash, the less people buy, the worse TC sales are, the less support we'll get and eventually we might wind up with NO software updates at all..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But if we don't bash them, they think everyone's happy with the current performance and they don't bother improving it or doing anything about it.
andyturner said:
But if we don't bash them, they think everyone's happy with the current performance and they don't bother improving it or doing anything about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No no, I do insist we bash them PERSONALLY, but not on the sales websites, as potential future customers may be scared in the future, even if the issue is already resolved, and therefore make the release of TC a fiasco, which would make HTC not distribute any sw updates...
Just a question:
How much would an external antenna help to get a better signal?
I would like to use the TC to track a short hike. Due to the test mentioned above, I would be forced to take the TC in my hand all the time. So I thougt I plug in an external antenna and fix the end somewhere to my clothes/backpack. Would that help?
Straputsky said:
Just a question:
How much would an external antenna help to get a better signal?
I would like to use the TC to track a short hike. Due to the test mentioned above, I would be forced to take the TC in my hand all the time. So I thougt I plug in an external antenna and fix the end somewhere to my clothes/backpack. Would that help?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Depends on the satellite coverage... My country has only 8 satellites covering it, so we couldn't utilize it fully even if we wanted to. (I don't know the background but thats the max number of lockons everyone gets around here)
But if your TC performs well in the city, i don't see any need for an external antenna, but an extra battery is a different story. And I hope you have other tracking softwares in your arsenal than the included TomTom...
gnick666 said:
...And I hope you have other tracking softwares in your arsenal than the included TomTom...
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Click to collapse
With TomTom it would be a very short trip.
No, I plan to use TrackMe which was created by someone here in the community. It allows you to turn of the display, so the device consumes less power.
The problem is, that the TC didn't perform that good and I was thinking if it performs better with an external antenna. Especially in wooden areas I hope to gain a significant better signal.
Straputsky said:
...Especially in wooden areas I hope to gain a significant better signal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You'd definitely get a better reception, but that would increase battery drainage. Bigger external antenna, heavier the drain on the battery.
But you can always pack the external antenna, and use it if needed. You won't loose anything, and we'd get some fieldtest results from the woods in Germany
@rickgyllion
Wot, no Harbour Bridge shares ? I'll even lower the price ! Oh well ...
"If, as you say, the issue stretches beyond early 2009 ..." I never said that, I simply pointed out that Qualcomm still faces unpredictable Court examination of its new designs. An inconvenient fact ...
"How often have you seen real support or development of an HTC product after the first few months?" Since the 1st non-English ROM devices have now been out a few months, one might think that stage has already been reached.
Between Qualcomm and HTC, it's a real stuff-up.
My attempt at resolution is that I have pre-ordered both the P3650 and an alternate non-HTC device. Both are due "in February" or "real soon now" or whichever comes first. When one or the other finally makes it to the retail market, then I'll make a decision.
In the last days, I am thinking about the many features last devices have, and "poor" WM functions...
I had a Universal, then a Kaiser, and now a Raphael, and...I mean, big hardware development has been made, but, the SO is almost the same, and I do not think we are using the real potential of our devices, isn't it?!
I mean, we can read email, but what I would really want is to have ALL my emails with me in my PDA and in my Pc, to use more than one email account, but, the only way to have ALL our emails synced in our PDAs and PCs, is paying for an Exchange Server access, but, we can use only ONE Exchange server, so we have to switch to IMAP, but using IMAP means using third part software because the WM email client does not allow us to store sent email in the right IMAP server folder (which can change from server to server), and, if I use a third part software for email, I cannot use the latest HTC "people centric communication feature", I cannot use the latest TF3D2 mail page, etc...so have an advanced email system is not possible yet...correct me if I am wrong.
But I want go deeper. Most of the things we can do today with our devices (like surfing the net) it is almost not possible "on the go", it is very difficult reply an email while I am walking, or while I am driving, it is difficult read a post on this forum and replay here, it is difficult write a text message without using both hand for the stylus or with an hardware keyboard...I mean, doing things like these are easy if we are sitted down, with both hands free, and if I should be sitted down with both hands free, I also could use a laptop, or netbook, or something like that. MS has made Voice Command, but only in three languages....
What I am trying to say is that what we really need in our devices is a completely different approch, would be useful if I am in my car, I receive a text message or email, and my device can READ it for me , or if I have to write a text, I can dictate it to my device. I would like that my phone reads my RSS while I am driving, because it CPU can handle a job like this.
We have 500/600 Mhz CPU for doing what? Appreciate graphical game on TF3D2?! In the next month will be sold a new device with a 1Ghz CPU for doing what?! The same things we are doing today?!
And think about Android, a young operating system that is 2 years old that almost do the same things that our MS operating system does from 1999?! Why we are changing our devices? What has been offered to us to justify spending 500/600/700 USD or EUR for new devices?
What do you do with your phone? Send some email? trying to open 10 web pages per day? Manage a calendar? Use a navigation software? I almost could do the same things with a cheapear phone, I phone that I must not reset once a day!
Sorry for my post and for the bad English, but something is not very clear in my mind...Am I becoming crazy?!
My friend you are absolutelly right.
I have changed many phones and have used different operating systems and i can say that more or less they are all the same. So the phones are not so innovative as the hardware allows them to be. Maybe the programmers have something else in mind when they develop new user interfaces but that something is getting old... The most innovative thing i have seen in a handset is in one of nokia's "cheaper" phones the e-50 which can read your messages. It's small but it's something! plus you don't have to pay a month's sallary to get it right? I believe that the only reason for this stagnancy (i don't know if this is a word ) is that each company is hesitating to try something new just because people buy the devices as they are, which probably means they like them. So why change something???
I wish that people with ideas like yours were the ones making the OS. Things would be very different then.
I really liked your post it makes you wonder....
simply insane!!!
why are you make questions here like that?
well if you hate WM devices now... i can buy your Kaiser... sell it to me!
and buy an Iphone...
Lack of comparative discussion
What bothers me a little about the diatribe is that it doesn't account for the ways in which the OTHER mobile operating systems fall equally short. I don't believe that any other phone has shown itself to be measurably superior on any of the issues discussed. Don't peg it all on WM...
Don't get me wrong, there's really no excuse for the limitations of MS's own mobile OS when interacting with MS's Exchange technology.
Some have tried to fake voice control, and there's even a couple of apps that have been around for several years that make some minor steps in the right direction, but none of them function well enough to be considered 90% functional (which would seem to be the general expectation for consumer targeted devices).
The hardware improvements haven't gone completely to waste, depending on what you're using the phone for. Multimedia, Gaming, and even "Business Use" have gained from the improved hardware. New types of interaction are now possible thanks to g-sensors, lighting detection, better cameras, and proximity sensors. Sure, the full power of the hardware surely isn't realized yet (and considering how quickly the devices are replaced, I doubt it ever will be), but there's a lot happening and we're bound to see a lot more to come.
Don't forget, WM7 is likely to ship with "Tell Me", which is supposedly a pretty powerful update to the MS Voice Command technology and capable of controlling most major phone-related functions. The iPhone will certainly be copying/stealing somebody's voice technology (if not buying up a company outright). Android already has Google working on extended voice features, which will almost certainly translate into what you're asking for. In fact, every complaint mentioned is something that virtually every OS is working on adding in some form or another.
In my opinion, it's the battery and power efficiency that we need to see dramatically improve. The largest limit our phones have, which is why many features have never even been given to these phones, is that certain things drain too much power (like voice processing). If battery life improves, count on seeing a lot of these other features appearing in short order.
+ Que PPC said:
why are you make questions here like that?
well if you hate WM devices now... i can buy your Kaiser... sell it to me!
and buy an Iphone...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Simply because I would like to know what others users and developers think...I have to said to let our devices fly outside the window, or said something offensive...Our devices today are much more usefull than the stock version just because there is a community like this where people develop piece of software or port entire rom, and I very thank all of theme. Playing with our device is also a hobby, but i really believe that big companies like HTC and others, should do a better work on these devices for how much they cost. That's it.
speed_pour said:
What bothers me a little about the diatribe is that it doesn't account for the ways in which the OTHER mobile operating systems fall equally short. I don't believe that any other phone has shown itself to be measurably superior on any of the issues discussed. Don't peg it all on WM...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are partially right, I am not having other OS since 2004, I do not want to say the others are better, I say that if I pay my PDA 700 EUR against 350 for another phone that does "almost" the same things...I pay 700 EUR but I would like something more...stable, or more advanced.
speed_pour said:
The hardware improvements haven't gone completely to waste, depending on what you're using the phone for. Multimedia, Gaming, and even "Business Use" have gained from the improved hardware. New types of interaction are now possible thanks to g-sensors, lighting detection, better cameras, and proximity sensors. Sure, the full power of the hardware surely isn't realized yet (and considering how quickly the devices are replaced, I doubt it ever will be), but there's a lot happening and we're bound to see a lot more to come.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I partially agree with you, just to report some example, I left my Kaiser for my Raphael, and my Raphael has g-sensor, it also had the old HCT Album 2.5 which rotated pictures using the g-sensor, and this was a must using the TV-OUT cable, but now, with HTC Album 3, the g-sensor rotate features is gone...so when you see picture on the TV using the TV-OUT cable, you cannot rotate photos any more..why?! Or what about the latest TF3D2 with its calendar tab?! Yes, it is cool, but it require 10 seconds to show all the appointments on each month...while the old calendar app is fast. What I mean is that I feel that they do not make a "perfect" phone while they could, because nobody will buy another phone after, I feel like they always miss something, or left something not working (like the GD driver on Kaiser) so that people continue spending money buying new devices.
speed_pour said:
Don't forget, WM7 is likely to ship with "Tell Me", which is supposedly a pretty powerful update to the MS Voice Command technology and capable of controlling most major phone-related functions. The iPhone will certainly be copying/stealing somebody's voice technology (if not buying up a company outright). Android already has Google working on extended voice features, which will almost certainly translate into what you're asking for. In fact, every complaint mentioned is something that virtually every OS is working on adding in some form or another.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am anxious to see some "really" improvements on this side, but I also think that MS has waited to much for doing something...
speed_pour said:
In my opinion, it's the battery and power efficiency that we need to see dramatically improve. The largest limit our phones have, which is why many features have never even been given to these phones, is that certain things drain too much power (like voice processing). If battery life improves, count on seeing a lot of these other features appearing in short order.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally agree with you
I'm working on a project for work, and I'm not sure if the product I'm looking exists, at least yet anyways. I'll tell you what I'm looking to do, and hopefully the community can let me know if this kind of device is out yet, or if it will be released soon.
I work at a hospital and I primarily provide training and support to Physicians for our Electronic Medical Record. One of our challenges has been getting physicians engaged and interested in learning about upgrades/changes/optimization and such pertaining to our medical record. We may fix a problem that they've been complaining about for a year...but then it's very difficult to let them all know that it's been fixed without tracking each of them down to tell them. We're not talking about a dozen physicians either, it's probably closer to 400 or so.
I spoke with a few other people and we came up with the idea of basically creating an electronic bulletin board that can be wall mounted in the doctors lounge, and they can use it to look at recent tip sheets, patch notes, lesson plans, etc, that we post about our EMR. I'd also like to add some links to the more reputable medical journals, so they can use it for something more than just reading our tip sheets.
I feel that Android would be the best platform for what we're trying to do, especially since it makes it easy to share and email items to accounts, that way if a Doc doesn't have time to review it in the lounge, they can at least email the document to themselves for later review.
I'm looking for an All-in-one device, a flat panel touchscreen display running android, and the display needs to be between 32 and 50 inches.
If I could get it done for 1500 or less, that would be great, although I pretty much have the approval to use up to 5000 in capital. I know there are several devices coming out that are integrated with Google TV, but few if any of the ones I've seen have a capacitive touch screen.
Does anyone know of a current or upcoming device that could meet my needs?
Bump
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Being a big fan of Android, I really do hate to say this, but I don't know you're going to find what you're looking for. From what I've seen lately, there have been fairly successful pilot deployments of iPads + AppleTV touchscreen bulletin boards in the medical sector, but without some serious serious hacking, I don't think you're going to see this in the Android arena. I don't think I've even seen any android device larger than 11" screens... On the plus side, that does sound like a new break-in type of market if any of the major product ODMs are paying attention
L4T
What about this!? asus.com/Eee/Eee_Pad/Eee_Pad_Transformer_TF101
I'm looking for an Android phone, which fulfils all the following expectations:
Can be rooted and the bootloader can be unlocked [may require manual unlocking]
at least 5" display [may be a little less but not much]
fluidly running Android 5 (may be unofficial but stable) Very likely upgrades to newer Android versions.
And as many as possible from the following ones [assume they're equally important]
Slide-out QWERTY keyboard available. May use BT, NFC, I2C but should be a slide-out. May be be attachable, may be an extra accessory
Drivers decent enough, so as to be able to set up some alternate OS with libhybris.
Easy to disassemble and replace broken parts, especially the broken screen
A notification LED or an AMOLED display (both appreciated but not required)
At least 16G of built-in space (32G appreciated)
Price is an important factor for me. But I use phones for a very long time, (have used my Nokia N900 for 5 years now) so I may treat the phone as a longer-term investment.
I'll probably be spending much time in the terminal, hence I care about the hardware keyboard. I'm a hacker soul I'll probably be using the Debian chroot, ssh, vnc. Linux user.
I don't really care that much about the looks of the phone My phones fall a lot on the floor, so I'm not for an ultrafragile phone.
I need a decent camera (my current 5MP/720p N900 is ok. I don't count the megapixels, more interested in overall quality). Must be a phone.
I'm a Google-skepticist, so have nothing against it shipping Cyanogen, AOSP, etc as long as the functionality remains the same.
I don't do selfies, don't care about the front camera at all.
I know about Fairphone2 which fulfils everything but the hardware keyboard (it was mentioned as a possible extension but nothing real appeared yet). And is quite expensive (525€, plus accessories). Is there any chance it gets cheaper during the next year?
Would you suggest anything? Feel free to ask about my attitude to some functionality, which I care about and which not at all.
Thanks!
Hi,
There's a dedicated thread for such questions here, http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1620179
Many opinions to be had there, so I'll close this thread. :good:
Hi everyone,
Like most people I've been aware of the news articles about Goggle and Apple tracking peoples activity on their smartphones for a long time (not to mention the other app companies), that combined with a lack of a real need for the capabilities of a smartphone means I've stuck with old fashioned "dumb" phones and until recently I've been content with them.
That changed during the long lockdowns, I became aware for the first time of some of the alternative privacy focused OS's that were out there. I also found some of the Chinese rugged phones and even after the the initial "ooh shiny" reaction faded I still liked the idea of them and as my current phone seems to be dieing I thought I'd look if any of these privacy OS's were compatible with any of the rugged smartphones. That turned into a real rabbit hole that I'm still trying to find my way out of.
Could any of the kind souls here take pity on a bewildered, bamboozled and quite frankly utterly and completely lost idiot and maybe suggest either a device compatible with any of these OS's or something that could be tinkered to work?
I don't feel I know enough on this subject to narrow down what I want in the OS other than I would like to run one or two google apps on it. I know this might defeat the point of degoogleing the phone but they are just apps for public transport in my area.
As for the hardware, as I haven't used a smartphone before I can't really say much about what I'm looking for. The only things I really want would be a a minimum of a 6 inch, decent enough CPU, ram ect that using it dosen't make me feel like I'm pulling out my hair and a camera that can take at least an OKish picture and a large battery.
I apologize if this post reads like I'm a choosy beggar, I really want to find a combination that works but I just seem to be getting myself more and more confused.
Many thanks for taking the time to read this post
The phone's Android version should be Android 8+ thus it's Project Treble enabled, means you are able to flash GSI ROMs.
That was one option I was looking into but some sources seemed to say it couldn't be done on Mediatek powered devices as the company doesn't release their drivers. If thats wrong it would certanly be an easy option.
You may look inside here:
Complete List of Lineage OS Supported Devices | KrispiTech 2023
Here you will find a list of every single Android smartphone and tablet that currently has official support for the popular custom ROM Lineage OS.
krispitech.com
Thanks for the suggestion and link jwoegerbauer, I'll have a look and see if theirs anything that fits.