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Why I am beginnig to hate WM devices...

In the last days, I am thinking about the many features last devices have, and "poor" WM functions...
I had a Universal, then a Kaiser, and now a Raphael, and...I mean, big hardware development has been made, but, the SO is almost the same, and I do not think we are using the real potential of our devices, isn't it?!
I mean, we can read email, but what I would really want is to have ALL my emails with me in my PDA and in my Pc, to use more than one email account, but, the only way to have ALL our emails synced in our PDAs and PCs, is paying for an Exchange Server access, but, we can use only ONE Exchange server, so we have to switch to IMAP, but using IMAP means using third part software because the WM email client does not allow us to store sent email in the right IMAP server folder (which can change from server to server), and, if I use a third part software for email, I cannot use the latest HTC "people centric communication feature", I cannot use the latest TF3D2 mail page, etc...so have an advanced email system is not possible yet...correct me if I am wrong.
But I want go deeper. Most of the things we can do today with our devices (like surfing the net) it is almost not possible "on the go", it is very difficult reply an email while I am walking, or while I am driving, it is difficult read a post on this forum and replay here, it is difficult write a text message without using both hand for the stylus or with an hardware keyboard...I mean, doing things like these are easy if we are sitted down, with both hands free, and if I should be sitted down with both hands free, I also could use a laptop, or netbook, or something like that. MS has made Voice Command, but only in three languages....
What I am trying to say is that what we really need in our devices is a completely different approch, would be useful if I am in my car, I receive a text message or email, and my device can READ it for me , or if I have to write a text, I can dictate it to my device. I would like that my phone reads my RSS while I am driving, because it CPU can handle a job like this.
We have 500/600 Mhz CPU for doing what? Appreciate graphical game on TF3D2?! In the next month will be sold a new device with a 1Ghz CPU for doing what?! The same things we are doing today?!
And think about Android, a young operating system that is 2 years old that almost do the same things that our MS operating system does from 1999?! Why we are changing our devices? What has been offered to us to justify spending 500/600/700 USD or EUR for new devices?
What do you do with your phone? Send some email? trying to open 10 web pages per day? Manage a calendar? Use a navigation software? I almost could do the same things with a cheapear phone, I phone that I must not reset once a day!
Sorry for my post and for the bad English, but something is not very clear in my mind...Am I becoming crazy?!

My friend you are absolutelly right.
I have changed many phones and have used different operating systems and i can say that more or less they are all the same. So the phones are not so innovative as the hardware allows them to be. Maybe the programmers have something else in mind when they develop new user interfaces but that something is getting old... The most innovative thing i have seen in a handset is in one of nokia's "cheaper" phones the e-50 which can read your messages. It's small but it's something! plus you don't have to pay a month's sallary to get it right? I believe that the only reason for this stagnancy (i don't know if this is a word ) is that each company is hesitating to try something new just because people buy the devices as they are, which probably means they like them. So why change something???
I wish that people with ideas like yours were the ones making the OS. Things would be very different then.
I really liked your post it makes you wonder....

simply insane!!!
why are you make questions here like that?
well if you hate WM devices now... i can buy your Kaiser... sell it to me!
and buy an Iphone...

Lack of comparative discussion
What bothers me a little about the diatribe is that it doesn't account for the ways in which the OTHER mobile operating systems fall equally short. I don't believe that any other phone has shown itself to be measurably superior on any of the issues discussed. Don't peg it all on WM...
Don't get me wrong, there's really no excuse for the limitations of MS's own mobile OS when interacting with MS's Exchange technology.
Some have tried to fake voice control, and there's even a couple of apps that have been around for several years that make some minor steps in the right direction, but none of them function well enough to be considered 90% functional (which would seem to be the general expectation for consumer targeted devices).
The hardware improvements haven't gone completely to waste, depending on what you're using the phone for. Multimedia, Gaming, and even "Business Use" have gained from the improved hardware. New types of interaction are now possible thanks to g-sensors, lighting detection, better cameras, and proximity sensors. Sure, the full power of the hardware surely isn't realized yet (and considering how quickly the devices are replaced, I doubt it ever will be), but there's a lot happening and we're bound to see a lot more to come.
Don't forget, WM7 is likely to ship with "Tell Me", which is supposedly a pretty powerful update to the MS Voice Command technology and capable of controlling most major phone-related functions. The iPhone will certainly be copying/stealing somebody's voice technology (if not buying up a company outright). Android already has Google working on extended voice features, which will almost certainly translate into what you're asking for. In fact, every complaint mentioned is something that virtually every OS is working on adding in some form or another.
In my opinion, it's the battery and power efficiency that we need to see dramatically improve. The largest limit our phones have, which is why many features have never even been given to these phones, is that certain things drain too much power (like voice processing). If battery life improves, count on seeing a lot of these other features appearing in short order.

+ Que PPC said:
why are you make questions here like that?
well if you hate WM devices now... i can buy your Kaiser... sell it to me!
and buy an Iphone...
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Click to collapse
Simply because I would like to know what others users and developers think...I have to said to let our devices fly outside the window, or said something offensive...Our devices today are much more usefull than the stock version just because there is a community like this where people develop piece of software or port entire rom, and I very thank all of theme. Playing with our device is also a hobby, but i really believe that big companies like HTC and others, should do a better work on these devices for how much they cost. That's it.

speed_pour said:
What bothers me a little about the diatribe is that it doesn't account for the ways in which the OTHER mobile operating systems fall equally short. I don't believe that any other phone has shown itself to be measurably superior on any of the issues discussed. Don't peg it all on WM...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are partially right, I am not having other OS since 2004, I do not want to say the others are better, I say that if I pay my PDA 700 EUR against 350 for another phone that does "almost" the same things...I pay 700 EUR but I would like something more...stable, or more advanced.
speed_pour said:
The hardware improvements haven't gone completely to waste, depending on what you're using the phone for. Multimedia, Gaming, and even "Business Use" have gained from the improved hardware. New types of interaction are now possible thanks to g-sensors, lighting detection, better cameras, and proximity sensors. Sure, the full power of the hardware surely isn't realized yet (and considering how quickly the devices are replaced, I doubt it ever will be), but there's a lot happening and we're bound to see a lot more to come.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I partially agree with you, just to report some example, I left my Kaiser for my Raphael, and my Raphael has g-sensor, it also had the old HCT Album 2.5 which rotated pictures using the g-sensor, and this was a must using the TV-OUT cable, but now, with HTC Album 3, the g-sensor rotate features is gone...so when you see picture on the TV using the TV-OUT cable, you cannot rotate photos any more..why?! Or what about the latest TF3D2 with its calendar tab?! Yes, it is cool, but it require 10 seconds to show all the appointments on each month...while the old calendar app is fast. What I mean is that I feel that they do not make a "perfect" phone while they could, because nobody will buy another phone after, I feel like they always miss something, or left something not working (like the GD driver on Kaiser) so that people continue spending money buying new devices.
speed_pour said:
Don't forget, WM7 is likely to ship with "Tell Me", which is supposedly a pretty powerful update to the MS Voice Command technology and capable of controlling most major phone-related functions. The iPhone will certainly be copying/stealing somebody's voice technology (if not buying up a company outright). Android already has Google working on extended voice features, which will almost certainly translate into what you're asking for. In fact, every complaint mentioned is something that virtually every OS is working on adding in some form or another.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am anxious to see some "really" improvements on this side, but I also think that MS has waited to much for doing something...
speed_pour said:
In my opinion, it's the battery and power efficiency that we need to see dramatically improve. The largest limit our phones have, which is why many features have never even been given to these phones, is that certain things drain too much power (like voice processing). If battery life improves, count on seeing a lot of these other features appearing in short order.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally agree with you

Android: Does the OS sell the hardware? or is the hardware selling the OS?

When it comes to android, you know that you have an outstanding range of hardware. From the low-end Optimus T/S to the titans of the OS such as the Galaxy S2, and everything imaginable in between. These days, you can even find generic china phones running an, often dated, android. Every carrier has it, they come in all price ranges, and they're available on demand. The question I pose to you, "Is android's key selling point the hardware?"
I understand that numerous XDA members and even some outsiders enjoy the limitless customization options made readily available in android and that's awesome. However, the general consumer is happy to end customization at setting their own ringtone. It's not a breaking factor for the majority that you can swap out kernels. Overall, android is a decent enough platform, but for the masses, I see little that it offers, hardware aside, that it's competitors don't.
Here recently, a thread was posted regarding the ASUS Transformer 2, a pentacore processor in a tablet. Now, most people have yet to exhaust the resources on their dual core phones. A penta-core device seems to be pushing the limits. Considering that it is running a mobile OS, by the time those cores could be utilized, wouldn't the tablet be long outdated? However, I know it will sell well because the word "Penta-core" sounds too awesome for the masses to pass up.
Another occurrence I've seen, having worked in retail shops for some time. A lot of customers, when asked about what OS their phone is running, will reply, "HTC" or, "Samsung." A lot of them have no idea what our little green friend is. Another point towards my personal opinion that the hardware is a huge selling factor.
Overall, android is a very complete platform. It is not my daily driver, but I do enjoy it whenever I have time to tinker. I am inquiring about this matter to get your opinions, what sells? Hardware or software?

I think for me its a little bit of both. I like the fact that the hardware is there in my 3d when I need to push the system really hard. Its not often I do, but its good that when I do, it executes the tasks with ease.
On the same hand there are huge software benefits for me. I love the UI and that I can set swype gestures to open particular apps or settings. It makes multi tasking tthat much easier and fluid for me.
Also, at least from what I have seen with iOS5 (my girl has the 4s) is that android seems to be ahead in certain areas of functionality. For example it is not an innovative thing (to me anyways, being an android user) to be able to back up your device without the use of a computer... I have been doing wireless backups and internal backups since I bought my first android phone.
I think one thing you mentioned before... I think it was you, anyways... was pretty much right on when you said that android is capable of meeting so many different needs in the sense that you have a wide range in variety of devices to choose from and at different costs. There are high end phones available such that perform to today's standards in the mobile world, and there are lower end ones available that are more cost effective.
I feel if you yourself are innovative and creative, you are way more capable of taking an android phone and building the UI to what you want/need. I don't sacrifice functionality for speed, ever. In the end it is still just a phone, but I prefer this platform because it caters to that need I have to customize my phone the way I want it to be, not what somebody else feels it should be.
---------- Post added at 02:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:13 AM ----------
And to address your comment about the bajjillion core tab....
Seems the hardware is way ahead of the software in this case... therefore, I am not impressed by it.
I have a Motorola xoom and it has plenty of power to do what I need it to do. I will not be taking it back to simply have two more cores under the hood. And somebody else mentioned the new kal el device only has 1gb of ram? In my opinion that is really disappointing for a device with that kind of processing power.

i buy phones based on hardware specs
the OS is optional
I prefer to load my OS of choice
just like my PCs / Laptops

z33dev33l said:
When it comes to android, you know that you have an outstanding range of hardware. From the low-end Optimus T/S to the titans of the OS such as the Galaxy S2, and everything imaginable in between. These days, you can even find generic china phones running an, often dated, android. Every carrier has it, they come in all price ranges, and they're available on demand. The question I pose to you, "Is android's key selling point the hardware?"
I understand that numerous XDA members and even some outsiders enjoy the limitless customization options made readily available in android and that's awesome. However, the general consumer is happy to end customization at setting their own ringtone. It's not a breaking factor for the majority that you can swap out kernels. Overall, android is a decent enough platform, but for the masses, I see little that it offers, hardware aside, that it's competitors don't.
Here recently, a thread was posted regarding the ASUS Transformer 2, a pentacore processor in a tablet. Now, most people have yet to exhaust the resources on their dual core phones. A penta-core device seems to be pushing the limits. Considering that it is running a mobile OS, by the time those cores could be utilized, wouldn't the tablet be long outdated? However, I know it will sell well because the word "Penta-core" sounds too awesome for the masses to pass up.
Another occurrence I've seen, having worked in retail shops for some time. A lot of customers, when asked about what OS their phone is running, will reply, "HTC" or, "Samsung." A lot of them have no idea what our little green friend is. Another point towards my personal opinion that the hardware is a huge selling factor.
Overall, android is a very complete platform. It is not my daily driver, but I do enjoy it whenever I have time to tinker. I am inquiring about this matter to get your opinions, what sells? Hardware or software?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First time I have to agree with you pal.BUT:
i)Those guys/gals whose customisation needs end with setting the ringtone are the ones who won't care or even won't realize if the OS is different between an iPhone and an Android device.
ii)Android offers most(if not all) of the things other OSes offer,plus the infinite customisation capabilities no other OS has.Now this is what matters for those of us who can do more than changing the ringtone.
Other than these two things,I generally agree.In the end,though,it's user preference that matters.And people's idiocy in fact.Hell,many people buy their phones depending on how many megapixels their camera can do!

AllGamer said:
I prefer to load my OS of choice
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd prefer that too, but mobile hardware is pretty much completely closed, so this is not really possible in practice, except maybe on very very few models.
To answer the title question: I don't know about others, but for me it's definitely the OS. Android is the closest to Linux as I'll probably get on a phone, people are free to cook up their own ROMs (not completely free in many cases, there's closed components in every ROM, but oh well), vast customization capabilities, for getting software you're not limited to one store with draconian rules and sometimes arbitrary decisions.

Certainly a combination of software + hardware with a little bit of company preference.
But considering the range of manufacturers for android based phones, I find it hard to lag behind hardware wise.

1) I look for a device that I think will last me the three years of my contract or at least the majority of it
2) I look here on XDA and see what the dev community is like
3) I buy the phone

I would guess that for 80%+ of phone buyers the main factor is price. Sure they know about the iPhone and the Samsung Galaxy devices, but for most those phohnes are out of their price bracket. So they find the device which has the same sort of idea but in a cheap package, which has helped Android no end since there are low end Android devices, and Apple have little interest in that.
For myself as a more techie person, I use Android becuase of the freedom to do what i want with my hardware. At least that's why i got into Android. Now I will continue to buy Android devices, but the major reason is I've invested in the app market, I have tens of pounds worth of apps for Android. To jump to anotehr platform now would mean having to start over with that. That's the power of these stores and markets, once you are invested changing platform is a lot more of a jump that just deciding which you like the most at the time.

countstex said:
I would guess that for 80%+ of phone buyers the main factor is price. Sure they know about the iPhone and the Samsung Galaxy devices, but for most those phohnes are out of their price bracket. So they find the device which has the same sort of idea but in a cheap package, which has helped Android no end since there are low end Android devices, and Apple have little interest in that.
For myself as a more techie person, I use Android becuase of the freedom to do what i want with my hardware. At least that's why i got into Android. Now I will continue to buy Android devices, but the major reason is I've invested in the app market, I have tens of pounds worth of apps for Android. To jump to anotehr platform now would mean having to start over with that. That's the power of these stores and markets, once you are invested changing platform is a lot more of a jump that just deciding which you like the most at the time.
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I've seen the price comment being made multiple times but aren't these devices pretty close to each other in terms of price after a 2 yr contract? In fact if you shop around, you can find some of these highend units for nearly nothing from online stores such as amazon
As for me, overall package is what sold me to galaxy s2. Form factor, hardware specs, overall implementation of the OS (gpu acceleration various places), etc. Version number really doesn't really bother me (2.3.3 vs 2.3.4/5/6/7) as long as there aren't any key features missing in the current revision that exists in the newer revisions.

Gusar321 said:
I'd prefer that too, but mobile hardware is pretty much completely closed, so this is not really possible in practice, except maybe on very very few models.
To answer the title question: I don't know about others, but for me it's definitely the OS. Android is the closest to Linux as I'll probably get on a phone, people are free to cook up their own ROMs (not completely free in many cases, there's closed components in every ROM, but oh well), vast customization capabilities, for getting software you're not limited to one store with draconian rules and sometimes arbitrary decisions.
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Click to collapse
HD2 was a great example
then there are many other HTC devices that did the same
and a few Samsung devices as well
and there's the HP Touchpad
and...

For most people it's both.
They're attracted for the first time by the look and find the OS easy to use.
Despite people stating that the iphone is for people who just want to use a smartphone for the first time etc and Android is for techies and geeks to customise, if that were actually true then that would mean that there are a hell of a lot of geeks out there, which obviously isn't the case.
I would guess the majority of Android users' extent of customisation is changing the picture of their wallpaper, and that's the thing, with Android you can do that, it's easy to use, with the extra buttons it can seem more logical to new users compared with the single button on the iphone for instance.
It has the "apps and the wifis" that average users want, it looks good and you can make it look pretty much how you like.
Being able to just plug it into another computer and transfer files is a huge boon too, something a colleague was very disappointed with the iphone4 because of it's lack of ability.

There is 500+ android devices on the market globally, its the brand name and hardware specs that sell. Not the os.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App

I'd rather say that that none of those sell the other: it's actually the price selling both, plus the "status symbol" factor thatbhas to do with Apple things. Androids are generally cheaper then both the iPhone and WP7 phones. This, plus the fact that most people don't seem to like WP7 tiled ui, basically because it doesn't "look like an iPhone" enough. That might sound harsh, like saying that most people are dumb, but it's not (only) that actually: people got used to icons since the day they got their first pc, no wonder they go for something that looks more familiar to them when they wanna buy a smartphone. Maybe Win8 will totally change the name of the game, but that's it for the moment (sadly enough I dare say).

I think we have to remember that 'most' people don't include the tiny fraction of the consumer market that are active on XDA. We make choices on a range of factors as we are better informed about both hardware and software. When we walk into a phone shop we want to assess the phone on build quality, size, Android version, display type, etc.
When the average punter walks into the same shop their buying choice usually boils down to no more than, 'Oh look, a shiny thing. I want that one'.

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[Discussion]Power Race In Android

I can't believe the ATI(Adreno in spirit) and Nvidia(Tegra 1,2,3) battle is now in the mobile era, although the cpu core race is even more daunting...
It was not that long ago when 1 core dominated the market, but now we have Dualcores & Quadcores...My issue with this change is that I don't feel either are exactly required; for instance, WP7 & iOS are faster than Android, but are able to run on older hardware. And lets not forget the iPhones normally run at surprisingly low speeds, however they can get a lot done still.
I mean Samsung's SIII has a Quadcpu, but I doubt that's even necessary, what's wrong with staying in the dualcore/single range and focusing on improving the UI and general performance!?
I know I'm gonna get a lot of backlash for thinking this way, but developers will be lazy with programming if they know the HW will run whatever crap they throw at it. It's just hard to understand the logic behind increasing the core count/speed without actually fixing the problems that plagued the software(android in this case) , if you just take the time to fix the quirks then the device will run smoother. Though, it just seems companies are just interested in marketing gimmicks that most end users won't actually notice, plus most dual cores(S3, exynos,T2, etc) are competent with intensive apps.

The race for now is to produce phones with the most potential. Quad cores, when correctly optimized anyway, have much higher processing capacity and much lower power consumption when doing trivial tasks. The goal is to create interfaces that don't stutter or lag no matter how much you have going on and do so efficiently. There's also the backing of chipsets like the Tegra for high-end mobile entertainment. The end game is superphones, and the game is well afoot.
As to the necessity of it, just depends. I think most business users will be fine on dual core offerings with plenty of ram and a well-implemented overall system. For those who like to max their phones out the possibilities of the high-end development coming out is pretty great. Think about something like the Note with enough processing ability to act as a full input tablet for graphic designers, or that allows programmers to run and edit complex code on the go instead of having to drag a full-size tablet around with them. Think about doctors or researchers being able to monitor multiple sets of real-time data directly from their phones. There's certainly a market for all this, and I don't think it's an arms race just for the sake of showing off.
My $.02; hope that was all coherent.

MissionImprobable said:
The race for now is to produce phones with the most potential.
There's certainly a market for all this, and I don't think it's an arms race just for the sake of showing off.
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Your points are all valid, but I still fear that the Software remains on a level much lower than the hardware; there are tons of Android configurations out there that prevent High Quality HW from performing optimally, due to this, the "potential" of certain devices may never be recognized.
I understand that more cores promotes a sense of efficiency and less power draws, but this tends to lead programmers to optimizing less often. Sense 3.0 was extremely sluggish, same with 4.0, but do you notice the trend? Both Sense 3/4 were made for fast SoCs, to my surprise the result was still horrid. And for your point about the mini tablet(Note), I personally feel you would see those types of Apps on iOS devices instead. For the sake of it, I don't want you to think I am an Apple fan boy(just playing devil's advocate).

Maybe those were the kind of things you only saw on Apple previously, but clearly Samsung and others are serious about competing with them.

I am on a bent for the new Google phones that are going to be being produced. Now, I am not the largest fan of quad core yet but I see great potential in dual cores. Like for running Ubuntu Android, an Ubuntu desktop from your phone to a monitor!
These new phones are looking to have 28nm cortex A15 dual core chips, that would be one hot cookie!
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium

First, for the dispassionate stuff:
Ace42 said:
but developers will be lazy with programming if they know the HW will run whatever crap they throw at it.
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Click to collapse
Developers should be able to be "lazy" with programming: you don't see anyone going back into assembly in order to optimize their programs. Programmer cycles are a lot more valuable than machine cycles, and here more power is a good, not a bad thing.
Ace42 said:
I mean Samsung's SIII has a Quadcpu, but I doubt that's even necessary, what's wrong with staying in the dualcore/single range and focusing on improving the UI and general performance!? ...It's just hard to understand the logic behind increasing the core count/speed without actually fixing the problems that plagued the software(android in this case)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The "logic" required is elementary economics. A competitive market causes innovation: each firm has to distinguish itself, and match the features of the others in order to stand a chance. Now, some features are more important in consumers' eyes than others, and in particular, core count/speed are very comprehensible, very easy numbers, and viable to innovate. They have to go up asap in order to compete. And so they have.
This does not mean, of course, that your "problems" must remain. In fact, looking at the S3 demos so far, I haven't yet noticed any lag at all, so perhaps they really did "fix" your problems, as you desired.
Now, for the bashing part.
Ace42 said:
My issue with this change is that I don't feel either are exactly required; for instance, WP7 & iOS are faster than Android, but are able to run on older hardware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This comes at a cost of so much less customizability. I find WP7 to be particularly guilty of this: only supports 480x800 resolution, no start screen background or landscape? My Launcher 7 is already more powerful than that and, thanks to not attempting any serious 3D stuff, shows no lag at all.
Ace42 said:
And lets not forget the iPhones normally run at surprisingly low speeds, however they can get a lot done still.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The iPhone, however, makes us pay with user speed as well. Scrolling is slow, in order to maintain the illusion of smoothness, and the simplistic launcher without widgets forces you to switch around and manage everything yourself, getting data only by clicking on the appropriate app. As I hinted at the beginning, people cycles are so much more valuable than computer cycles, and sacrificing the former for the latter is nothing less than a travesty.

Currently mobile phones are more powerful than my laptops and i think this will not change. In the next few years we will have quad-core processors in watches

goompas said:
Currently mobile phones are more powerful than my laptops and i think this will not change. In the next few years we will have quad-core processors in watches
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completely agree

Google sells ads, not software, they don't really give a crap about optimizing it to the max. They leave this dirty job to OEMs, and OEMs want to sell hardware, so they only optimize it for the tiny bit that is strictly necessary in order to sell. They'd rather make better hardware than better software, and no need to blame them: they just do what they know better. Microsoft and Apple instead sell either software or a complete package of both software and hardware, so guess why they care more about it...just my 2 cents. Btw, not that one approach is better than the other, choice is good, you pick what you want.
Sent from my Lumia 800 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

vnvman said:
Google sells ads, not software, they don't really give a crap about optimizing it to the max. They leave this dirty job to OEMs... Microsoft and Apple instead sell either software or a complete package of both software and hardware, so guess why they care more about it...just my 2 cents.
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Click to collapse
This analysis doesn't make sense (at least, not as gross as it is right now). A company optimizes software when there's some form of competitive pressure, not because they "sell software". Just look at internet explorer: that didn't get seriously worked on for years, until alternative browsers started to become rightfully popular (that is, while microsoft is surely a software company, they still managed not to "give a crap").
Maybe you mean to say that companies only bother to improve something so that it's "good enough" to face off against the competition - and that's pretty much true. For example, after grabbing the market share, apple has only been innovating just hard enough not to be too far behind its competition.
Maybe you also mean to say that companies innovate better, the closer their incentives are aligned with the innovation. This is also true, but highly misleading. For one thing, the factor most affecting one's incentives is not "the thing they are selling", but (you guessed it from above) competition. Selling software or hardware when you have a monopoly, for instance, gives you little or no incentive to innovate (whereas your criteria would've suggested the opposite).
Mind you, I think you are hitting on something; it just requires a much more thorough analysis of the incentives than just "are they selling software or ads?"
And the incentive situation is itself weird. On one hand, android ad profit is (supposedly) pretty low for google, but on the other hand, they are able to delegate the whole manufacturing and execution to other firms. Fewer rewards, but also lower costs. They do have the majority of the phone market right now (getting dangerously close to monopoly there), but this is a fragile equilibrium, with tablets a whole 'nother story. And, since they are dying to get more stock phones out (with those giant "Google" permanant search bars), one can indeed argue that they've started to care not only about selling ads, but the whole damn thing. It's gotten to the point where they need to improve stock itself (and probably the phones too, hence the motorola acquisition + multiple Nexii partnership) in order to improve their ads. And so you see that the incentives may not be nearly as maligned as you'd originally supposed.

I think that we can only benefit from this race

thebobp said:
First, for the dispassionate stuff:
Developers should be able to be "lazy" with programming: you don't see anyone going back into assembly in order to optimize their programs. Programmer cycles are a lot more valuable than machine cycles, and here more power is a good, not a bad thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Being "lazy" is the reason why so many Android apps run poorly across the board; fine, I understand more power allows you to offload more work to the cpu, but that doesn't mean that's the correct method. If I were to make an app for a Dual environment I would specifically make sure each core is sharing the burden. When Dual core phones & Ginger were(and still are) united, the result was simply stunning—Ginger was definitely not optimized for dualcores. And it showed, my Sensation was so laggy under 2.3.x, it was so disheartening to see my single core devices could challenge the dual beast with ease.
thebobp said:
Now, some features are more important in consumers' eyes than others, and in particular, core count/speed are very comprehensible, very easy numbers, and viable to innovate.
This does not mean, of course, that your "problems" must remain. In fact, looking at the S3 demos so far, I haven't yet noticed any lag at all, so perhaps they really did "fix" your problems, as you desired.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The average consumer doesn't know or can't even comprehend the raw power that certain SoCs are capable of, so I doubt they care if X phone has 2GHz and the other has 1Ghz. Apple normally doesn't boast about the CPU count in commercials, they boast about their OS & siri, that's how they win over millions each year. Everyone and their grandmothers know how flawless iOS is. Now I know I'm bashing Android severely, though I am a long time Android user and these are some of my views.
thebobp said:
This comes at a cost of so much less customizability. I find WP7 to be particularly guilty of this: only supports 480x800 resolution, no start screen background or landscape? My Launcher 7 is already more powerful than that and, thanks to not attempting any serious 3D stuff, shows no lag at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, WP7 offers the bare minimum when it comes to customization, which is an unfortunate sacrifice for speed. And Microsoft has set HW limitations to prevent fragmentation, which if I may, is devastating the Android market. We have Exynos over there, Snapdragon under there, and Tegra round yonder, and a large variety of screen types.
thebobp said:
The iPhone, however, makes us pay with user speed as well. Scrolling is slow, in order to maintain the illusion of smoothness, and the simplistic launcher without widgets forces you to switch around and manage everything yourself, getting data only by clicking on the appropriate app. As I hinted at the beginning, people cycles are so much more valuable than computer cycles, and sacrificing the former for the latter is nothing less than a travesty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Scrolling is slow? Are you using the 1st iPhone or something? Last time I tried my friend's 4S is was quite speedy, iOS has always been the fastest mobile OS available. If memory serves, iOS has also been GPU accelerated since the old days, a feature relatively new to Android and maybe WP7. I pretty sure you can visit every Android forum on XDA & at least 10 users will report that they have lag in X, Y, Z app. However if you did a poll with random iOS users I doubt if you would even find a black sheep.

Are We Expecting Too Much?

Am I the only who thinks some people are expecting too much? Maybe it is becuase my uses are so different than others?
I am not looking to control orbiting satelites with this device, nor am I wanting it to compose Adele's next number one smash. It is a tablet! Or, am I missing something. Have these devices come so far in such a short time that we want them to be full desktop or laptop replacements?
I want to: check the weather, see what the local movie times are and read some reviews, check email real quick and perhaps respond, watch a few clips of youtube on a really nice screen, have some entertainment portability when I travel, have a huge GPS in my car (that works), write reviews on Trip Advisor, read about the TomKat divorce, etc, etc. I wonder how many people who are highlighting the faults of this device actually have capable laptops at home!
I want a great screen and the latest device that might last me two, or maybe three years. I am not looking to take over the world with this device in 7 years.
Thoughts?
P.S. - I was joking about the TomKat thing.

Partly.
I'm basically on your side. I also think some people overreact on some issues like the I/O.
I watched the Prime release as I wanted that too but there was an overall bad tone from those who got it. The whole forum was basically just threads about problems or complaining, here it is two or three threads now.
With the Infinity you hear some say "oh no I/O, send it back, its crap" and others that say "it's almost smooth as butter".
But on the other hand it is marketed as a high class tablet and priced like that.
So I expect from ASUS to fix that issues. If they ignore it I will probably send it back after some time if the issue really bothers me that much.
But as I'm still waiting for mine to arrive I won't cancel it because of this now.
Okay maybe it is different in other countries that do not have warranty for 2 years, dunno.

You wouldn't have to have bought the 700 if you'd only wanted to watch the ocassional YouTube clip, LOL. As far as your usage scenario goes, yes, I believe you will have a great device that will last you several years, and possibly much longer than that.
I love the device too, but in my usage scenario (watching movie along with browsing the web for a bit, XDA among it), the I/O issue does rear its ugly head every once in a while. Granted, if actually watching the video, all is great; browsing the web, all is great; accessing the filesystem is less nice with slower responses than my SGS2, let alone when you try and transfer a large file.
And to answer your title question: no, I do not think we're expecting too much for a device of this cost (and theoretical capability). A quad-core 1GB RAM ICS tablet with 64 GB on-board memory should blow everything Android out of the water; so far, the experience hasn't been that bad at all, but I am absolutely convinced there is quite some room for improvement.
And now I think of it: all this time we are used as unpaid beta testers. I wonder why ASUS never stumbled upon the I/O issue itself; is that because they just connected seome hardware in an aluminum casing and brought it to retail, like some cynics said, or is this really so special and unforeseen that they didn't test large file transfers (for example) at all and just didn't test that particular aspect? I do have an opinion on that.

Surfing the web (visiting regular sites) and watching embedded video's in those site should work smooth. Especially with this high-end tablet.
Well, it does not go smooth. That's not a high expectation to me.
I compared it with an iPad1 and and iPad3, and even the iPad1 (>2 years old!) does the job faster and smoother ...

@Marty
Is it fair to say that if Asus expects to produce and sell 7,000,000 of these devices (I do not know what the real production number is), and 6,800,000 of those buyers do not care about I/O, multi-tasking, etc, that Asus WOULD NOT spend time, energy, and resources to make those 200,000 buyers happy?
I love these sites and forums, they are a great resource, but lets face it, people that use and post to these sites are a minority, not majority. And while I am sure producers of these tablet devices, be it Asus, Apple, Samsung, etc, do care somewhat about what is said, they have to produce what they can sell at the highest profit margin and then move onto the next device. Forget the Infinity, Asus probably its successor and its successors successor already in the works!

sag365 said:
if Asus expects to produce and sell 7,000,000 of these devices
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I don't think that this is a realistic number. You have to lower that a lot!

I don't think you're expecting too much.
Went into a local Currys and had a good look at a few tablets. The Galaxy Tab 2 10.1 actually looks quite nice and has an amazing screen, so does the Nexus 7 (but again, no 3G or SD card).
I hate to admit it but Apple own the tablet market.
I think I'm going to wait until we have an HD tablet with 3G before I buy one. These days I want to make sure I get the best bang for my buck.

i really do think its the best tab out. no tab comes out as the perfect model an ipad 3 is because there is only 1 of them, nothing to compare within apple. its such closed ecosystem that it runs smoothly because.... u cant do anything YOU want just what they want lol. with android its like PC, so many configuartions its hard to eliminate all bugs, but really good devs are gonna get their hands on this device and fix up a lot of things. also check out endgaget Asus released 4.1 jellybean news to hit the prime and the infinity within the next month

Is it fair to say that if Asus expects to produce and sell 7,000,000 of these devices (I do not know what the real production number is), and 6,800,000 of those buyers do not care about I/O, multi-tasking, etc, that Asus WOULD NOT spend time, energy, and resources to make those 200,000 buyers happy?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be honest. I don't think they pay to much mind to us early adapters. We definitely are the minority...

I received my TF700 yesterday and I was expecting a wow from the screen but my wife screwed it up cause I been using her ipad3 for the last week while waiting for the infinity. The screen is definitely nice and it does run smooth like it suppose to. I saw an IO issue when I was downloading all my apps and sorting them out in my home screens. It was sluggish and the screen turned white twice but I was downloading 22 apps with wifi on and re organizing the home screens which is a lot (at least to me). The wifi and bluetooth are [email protected] great. Distance for bluetooth seems to be much better. Jambox works flawless. The only things I didn't like was it seems the speaker has a lower top volume. Doesn't seem to be as loud as my prime was. I do get a click from the lens when I take pictures. You can hear it in video which is annoying.
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using XDA Premium HD app

Crizthakidd said:
i really do think its the best tab out. no tab comes out as the perfect model an ipad 3 is because there is only 1 of them, nothing to compare within apple. its such closed ecosystem that it runs smoothly because.... u cant do anything YOU want just what they want lol. with android its like PC, so many configuartions its hard to eliminate all bugs, but really good devs are gonna get their hands on this device and fix up a lot of things. also check out endgaget Asus released 4.1 jellybean news to hit the prime and the infinity within the next month
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Click to collapse
months
---------- Post added at 05:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:01 PM ----------
dknotty said:
I don't think you're expecting too much.
Went into a local Currys and had a good look at a few tablets. The Galaxy Tab 2 10.1 actually looks quite nice and has an amazing screen, so does the Nexus 7 (but again, no 3G or SD card).
I hate to admit it but Apple own the tablet market.
I think I'm going to wait until we have an HD tablet with 3G before I buy one. These days I want to make sure I get the best bang for my buck.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If I didn't need it for summer months, I would definitely wait for the Snapdragon version.

sag365 said:
@Marty
Is it fair to say that if Asus expects to produce and sell 7,000,000 of these devices (I do not know what the real production number is), and 6,800,000 of those buyers do not care about I/O, multi-tasking, etc, that Asus WOULD NOT spend time, energy, and resources to make those 200,000 buyers happy?
I love these sites and forums, they are a great resource, but lets face it, people that use and post to these sites are a minority, not majority. And while I am sure producers of these tablet devices, be it Asus, Apple, Samsung, etc, do care somewhat about what is said, they have to produce what they can sell at the highest profit margin and then move onto the next device. Forget the Infinity, Asus probably its successor and its successors successor already in the works!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you'd read my posts in here, you'd have seen I have stated exactly to same a few times over, my friend. In 'normal usage' scenarios, owners won't find significant faults, and they accept a hang here or there -- if you work anywhere where you cannot decide on hardware yourself, you are faced with crap hardware all the time and build up mental antibodies to stutters, lags, hangs and what-not.
Having said that, a lot of people come in here for 'other-than-normal usage' scenarios, right ? And you rightly point out that we do not have any market influence except for the direct one (representatives, who probably are depressed and suicidal by now, LOL).

Eroc162 said:
I received my TF700 yesterday and I was expecting a wow from the screen but my wife screwed it up cause I been using her ipad3 for the last week while waiting for the infinity. The screen is definitely nice and it does run smooth like it suppose to. I saw an IO issue when I was downloading all my apps and sorting them out in my home screens. It was sluggish and the screen turned white twice but I was downloading 22 apps with wifi on and re organizing the home screens which is a lot (at least to me). The wifi and bluetooth are [email protected] great. Distance for bluetooth seems to be much better. Jambox works flawless. The only things I didn't like was it seems the speaker has a lower top volume. Doesn't seem to be as loud as my prime was. I do get a click from the lens when I take pictures. You can hear it in video which is annoying.
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using XDA Premium HD app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So what you thoughts in comparison?
Would you exchange Infinity for iPad 3?
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium

MartyHulskemper said:
If you'd read my posts in here, you'd have seen I have stated exactly to same a few times over, my friend. In 'normal usage' scenarios, owners won't find significant faults, and they accept a hang here or there -- if you work anywhere where you cannot decide on hardware yourself, you are faced with crap hardware all the time and build up mental antibodies to stutters, lags, hangs and what-not.
Having said that, a lot of people come in here for 'other-than-normal usage' scenarios, right ? And you rightly point out that we do not have any market influence except for the direct one (representatives, who probably are depressed and suicidal by now, LOL).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol I'm not having too many issues with doing 'other than normal usage' scenarios actually. I downloaded multiple HD texture packs for Mario Kart 64, Starfox 64 and Super Smash Bros with little to no lag, then unzipped, copied and pasted the very large (a couple hundred megabytes) packs into their correct folders without really slowing down at all. I was impressed considering my tablet locked up several times while installing and Titanium Backup restoring apps.
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using xda app-developers app

I was just thinking about writing about the same topic. Sometimes I feel that people are expecting to get a full spec laptop.
Yeah the problems are there, but do they make me regret bying the TF700T? Not a bit.

Sometimes I wonder if ASUS even knows the cause of these various performance issues.
Take this scenario - you or I decide to design our own tablet: We get a bunch of investors, we go to a Chinese tech company, we sit down in a board room with their engineers - somewhere - maybe in the US - we show our blueprints of what we want the tablet to do - screen resolution - processor - ports - size - case material - all the usual stuff - any one of us here on XDA could do it - then, a representative meets with you and your investors again 3 months later with a prototype - you tell them what you like and what you don't - they disappear again for another month and return with a new prototype - you test it, it meets with your approval - you give them the go to produce 1000 of them.
We would have our own company, and produce a tablet - which we sell to the public - but we wouldn't have the slightest clue what makes it tick
And if a customer complains what do we do - we contact a chinese engineer explain the problem and maybe they solve the problem or maybe they make excuses for shoddy workmanship and move on to the next bigger contract - its not their problem to provide customer support, its yours - but you didn't make the thing so you don't have a clue how to solve the customer's problems
Again just hypothetical, but with everything being made by Chinese factories, are we even sure that ASUS knows the cause of our problems or the solutions?
Remember the day of having products made and supported in the US is over. Even the Japanese don't make and support their products anymore. Sony products are made in China!
On a side note - I do think they could have taken the time to tell the Chinese engineers to find a way to put the damn speakers on the front, or at least along the bottom and separated - after hearing the speakers on the a700 I'm having a really hard time rationalizing a premium tablet with a cheap monotone side mounted speaker..

Digital Man said:
Sometimes I wonder if ASUS even knows the cause of these various performance issues.
Take this scenario - you or I decide to design our own tablet: We get a bunch of investors, we go to a Chinese tech company, we sit down in a board room with their engineers - somewhere - maybe in the US - we show our blueprints of what we want the tablet to do - screen resolution - processor - ports - size - case material - all the usual stuff - any one of us here on XDA could do it - then, a representative meets with you and your investors again 3 months later with a prototype - you tell them what you like and what you don't - they disappear again for another month and return with a new prototype - you test it, it meets with your approval - you give them the go to produce 1000 of them.
We would have our own company, and produce a tablet - which we sell to the public - but we wouldn't have the slightest clue what makes it tick
And if a customer complains what do we do - we contact a chinese engineer explain the problem and maybe they solve the problem or maybe they make excuses for shoddy workmanship and move on to the next bigger contract - its not their problem to provide customer support, its yours - but you didn't make the thing so you don't have a clue how to solve the customer's problems
Again just hypothetical, but with everything being made by Chinese factories, are we even sure that ASUS knows the cause of our problems or the solutions?
Remember the day of having products made and supported in the US is over. Even the Japanese don't make and support their products anymore. Sony products are made in China!
On a side note - I do think they could have taken the time to tell the Chinese engineers to find a way to put the damn speakers on the front, or at least along the bottom and separated - after hearing the speakers on the a700 I'm having a really hard time rationalizing a premium tablet with a cheap monotone side mounted speaker..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You could contract a US engineer to do the job for you. But you still need a brand image which requires time to get into customers' heads otherwise nobody will buy it from you. Well if you don't get the message across to them then who will? Remember, in a big company there's always a chain-of-command on the production side, it's difficult to get it right the first time and they tends to pick-up their mistakes overtime.
However you'll just needing to submit a customer feedback and then wait patiently because Asus has so many products that they're busy dealing with everyday. I'd understand it from a customer's point of view such that problems within the product itself and falling out of specification etc...
For example you see the quality not class A and constantly compares it with another product in similar system, would you rather be disappointed to see it not being a perfect product?
Think about it perhaps the tablet market has just taken off!!!

So far I am very pleased ... what exactly is an "io"? Wait till this gets an aokp jb port and a custom kernel...it will smoke anything coming out for a while
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Xparent SkyBlue Tapatalk 2

Redefined301 said:
You could contract a US engineer to do the job for you. But you still need a brand image which requires time to get into customers' heads otherwise nobody will buy it from you. Well if you don't get the message across to them then who will? Remember, in a big company there's always a chain-of-command on the production side, it's difficult to get it right the first time and they tends to pick-up their mistakes overtime.
However you'll just needing to submit a customer feedback and then wait patiently because Asus has so many products that they're busy dealing with everyday. I'd understand it from a customer's point of view such that problems within the product itself and falling out of specification etc...
For example you see the quality not class A and constantly compares it with another product in similar system, would you rather be disappointed to see it not being a perfect product?
Think about it perhaps the tablet market has just taken off!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You could contact a US engineer to do it for you? You mean in a US factory? There are none. Thats the point.
China IS the only remaining company
ASUS = intermediary between US customer and China
They supply cash a brand name and a list of design requriments - China does all the rest
That disconect becomes a big problem when it comes to product support and problem solving - if you didn't really make it - you are not well prepared to support it

Retrospective thoughts on Product Reviews

Like I'm sure many of you did, I read a TON of reviews before buying the Infinity. I mean I read and re-read almost every english site out there that had gotten their hands on a pre-release version a month or so before the device came out (and videos too!). All of these glowing reviews seemed to reassure me that I was making the right decision and amped up my excitement and expectations. But when I got the tablet I was really disappointed about the speed, stuttering, and lagging both while browsing and the device itself. I've upgraded to .26 and have been VERY happy with it since. I'm not complaining about the device or asking how to make it better. I love my tablet and can't wait to rock some custom roms!
My point is that everyone here noticed the problems almost immediately after opening the box. Lately I've been thinking about the inconsistency between the reviews and the initial release of the product and was wondering if anyone else noticed this and is now either more skeptical of review sites, or (especially after some of the debacles with Asus Device Tracker, the Unlock Tool Serial Issue, etc) if there is more going on behind the scenes with Asus.
I remember reading reviews for Motherboards a few years ago and while ASUS has always been one of the top players it seems that other entrants are doing just as good if not better. Other users were noticing the same trend in innovation and frankly quality. I applaud Asus for venturing out into new product lines, but I get this nagging feeling that they're really not doing the best they can and I'm surprised no reviewer called them out on it. I used to be a huge brand champion for them, but I might be slowly losing it....
Just something I've been thinking about and decided to share.

I know exactly how you feel. I have noticed absolutely raving reviews for hardware that was less than overwhelming out of the box before, but the past few year, the number of times I've noticed significant discrepancies between the reviews and the actual buyer's user experience far more often, it seems.
I'd imagine that either the manufacturer is buying off the reviewer (I know several hardware companies only make their products available for review on the explicit notice that only positive aspects are to be referenced, or that the review overall must at least be positive), or that they send off devices that have been pulled inside out by the engineers and have been tweaked to hell (and back), even as far as swapping out components. This isn't so hard to do when you haven't even settled on an actual end-product design.
I know that there's alsways a negative bias on the user forums (like XDA, for example), but the positive review bias is putting me off even more.

Excellent thread.
I wonder about this too, take the Prime...that device was virtually broken out of the box. How could any reviewer not mention the constant ANRs with the web browsing, slowness when installing anything and broken bluetooth?

My Infinity has been great right out of the box. So, no, it doesn't have any impact on my perspective since most of the reviews are in-line with my experience.
The Prime is altogether different, though. It had some clear problems that were broken at the hardware level, so it seemed like someone should have called it out much more quickly.
I would expect the manufacturer to more closely QA a unit they knew was going to be a hardware review unit, so minor flaws that are due to poor QA (a dead pixel/light bleed/etc) I would NOT expect to be called out by most reviewers. But a design defect as glaring and fundamental as WiFi and GPS iisues the Prime had? Not so much.

I expressed the same thoughts back in February with respect to the original prime:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=22396949&postcount=7

Good thread!
The reviews for me add a lot of confusion as I'm sure happens to most.
As a long time home PC builder I got mad at Asus years back because of
some serious issues with their motherboards. So I've always just stepped
over the brand until recently. Asus seems to have changed or maybe it's
just hardware advancements that have become common.
We have a couple of other tablets and I've always thought they we're a hassle
to use in most cases. I've wanted a 10.1 tablet for a couple of years, yet wanted
to wait for some vast hardware improvement. That's where the TF700 comes into play.
I bought this thing for the inside first, quality second, reviews third Asus name last.
I dunno what will happen maybe Android 4.1 will give all the tablets wings...

Thats OK said:
The reviews for me add a lot of confusion as I'm sure happens to most.
As a long time home PC builder I got mad at Asus years back because of
some serious issues with their motherboards. So I've always just stepped
over the brand until recently. Asus seems to have changed or maybe it's
just hardware advancements that have become common.
We have a couple of other tablets and I've always thought they we're a hassle
to use in most cases. I've wanted a 10.1 tablet for a couple of years, yet wanted
to wait for some vast hardware improvement. That's where the TF700 comes into play.
I bought this thing for the inside first, quality second, reviews third Asus name last.
I dunno what will happen maybe Android 4.1 will give all the tablets wings...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That won't happen until CM18 - Redbull
But you hit on exactly what I was getting at with the motherboards. Innovation and quality are not always the same thing. I ended up with a Gigabyte board and was very happy btw.
To be honest I think that consumers in general are ok with sub-par build quality though. As long as something works and isn't absolutely terrible most people are cool with it. Basically as consumers we allow companies to get away with it because we still buy the products. It's a vicious cycle.

To be honest I think that consumers in general are ok with sub-par build quality though. As long as something works and isn't absolutely terrible most people are cool with it. Basically as consumers we allow companies to get away with it because we still buy the products. It's a vicious cycle.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also think that consumers (Americans in particular, myself included) tend to be incredibly price conscious and this has been further exacerbated by both the world economy and the pace of technology. So, the past decade or so, this has really accelerated.
As you note, nowadays, poor build quality is not preferred but it is highly tolerated... probably because the item was viewed as a "good deal" and we know we're just going to buy a new one and literally scrap the old one in just a year or two. We are not buying things with the intent to keep them for years or call a "repairman" if they break, like people did with TV sets in the 50s and 60s.
I have a Moto Droid 1 that was just released from it's 2 year contract in Jan and I've known people who have upgraded phones four or five times since I've owned mine. It's nuts. I'm finally going to replace it because the volume button broke but I found myself half wishing it wasn't so sturdy when I see everyone with their shiny new phones. It's hard not to fall into the rampant consumerism that helps fuel this negative quality trend.

wolfman87 said:
That won't happen until CM18 - Redbull
But you hit on exactly what I was getting at with the motherboards. Innovation and quality are not always the same thing. I ended up with a Gigabyte board and was very happy btw.
To be honest I think that consumers in general are ok with sub-par build quality though. As long as something works and isn't absolutely terrible most people are cool with it. Basically as consumers we allow companies to get away with it because we still buy the products. It's a vicious cycle.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Chuckle OL
"CM18 Redbull"
You may have actually tagged a future version!

Gadget reviews on the Internet are on the whole quite poor. There are a lot of factors that most users here could add to.
- they're all tied into an endless consumer release cycle that has to gear up every few months or year depending on the vendor. In that sense they're part of a big ball of constant marketing, hype and desire that people and places like here feed into (I'm guilty!)
- the explosion of 24hr tech coverage on the Internet has all these gadget sites competing for page views, advertising and even access from the very companies they're assessing.
- the gadget "journalists" are constantly switching to new devices, never living with it before they are pressured to judge it for an article that will likely never be updated but always searchable on the net. How many tablet reviews have you seen where someone is paging through home pages as they state how fast or slow a device is? Useless.
-it's true you see more negatives on XDA as far as quality control, but you also see more unfounded hype for new or unreleased devices because people want the next new thing or to feel like their emotional or financial purchase is worthwhile. I trust net reviewers when they uniformly say a device is mediocre (ie Note 10.1) because you know it had to be bad if it sucked in the brief amount of time they gave it. I don't trust their praise until I know for myself it's decent (Nexus 7, Infinity) because there are all sorts of issues they won't be around to see (Prime).