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GPS PASSION - HTC CRUISE test

here the test and review by GPS PASSION
http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=105771

energy59 said:
here the test and review by GPS PASSION
http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=105771
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This device, as attractive as it may be, is starting to rack up some real negatives:
1) the confused (for consumers) situation with the Qualcomm chip and the US Court injunction (what effect may that have on overall sales and consequently warranty, quality control etc ?)
2) variations in build quality (sliders, screens unglued etc)
3) constant WWE ROM supply problems and high prices
4) the ongoing argument over video drivers (may not be a real issue, since it seems unlikely to me that any class action will actually occur)
I'm getting a small amount of "sand in my shoes"

I wonder: why are we bashing this device more and more lately? The more we bash, the less people buy, the worse TC sales are, the less support we'll get and eventually we might wind up with NO software updates at all..
So let's try to think about the positive things shall we

ianl8888 said:
1) the confused (for consumers) situation with the Qualcomm chip
2) variations in build quality (sliders, screens unglued etc)
3) constant WWE ROM supply problems and high prices
4) the ongoing argument over video drivers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1: is a non-issue, by the time in 2009 when HTC will need to use a new chip, this device will have been replaced in all likelihood, or will have a slightly different chipset. No problem.
2: I've not heard of any problems, slight noise from a screen and concerns here and there, but no issues with previous build so why this one? Anyway, you get a defective one, you return it!
3: supply will level in a month or two, place an order now and you should have it early Feb. The fact that it's popular should tell you a lot.
4: again is a non-issue - either you want a multi-purpose phone like this or you don't. The video will be as released, I don't believe anything more will happen with it. It's fine as released for general purpose stuff...
Essentially, if you wanted a high-performance video device this one was never for you; if you want a great PDA phone it is. Make your choice. For me build quality is excellent and the rest is of no importance.

If you want great video performance buy a Cowon iAudio A3 (I got the A2), great rendering to high resolutions too in widescreen format, bigger and heavier than the TC but good for all your video/audio/FM radio/pictures/document needs. No input possible of course. That's why I needed the TC

SabbeRubbish said:
I wonder: why are we bashing this device more and more lately? The more we bash, the less people buy, the worse TC sales are, the less support we'll get and eventually we might wind up with NO software updates at all..
So let's try to think about the positive things shall we
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Simple.
Post cognitive dissonance:
http://www.ciadvertising.org/sa/fall_03/adv382J/mbabbott/advertising.htm
There have been high expectations from the device for a long time, combine that with the difficulty in actually getting hold of one and a couple of new models from other manufacturers on the horizon, and those expectations will change. Cognitive Dissonance is a much more difficult problem for companies to manage these days, mostly because of the internet.

I must say, truly interesting! And indeed I've caught myself luring to Eten and LG devices, but none are up to the TC challenge imho.

All i can say is i am right with rickgillyon.
Everyday, i am happy to have TC.
GPS, sound, screen, weight, radio, phone are perfect.
A lot of Applications are available.
I haven't buy this device for video but if it works well, i will use it some times.
Ziggy

fishes234 said:
Simple.
Post cognitive dissonance:
http://www.ciadvertising.org/sa/fall_03/adv382J/mbabbott/advertising.htm
There have been high expectations from the device for a long time, combine that with the difficulty in actually getting hold of one and a couple of new models from other manufacturers on the horizon, and those expectations will change. Cognitive Dissonance is a much more difficult problem for companies to manage these days, mostly because of the internet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True enough, although I have not yet made a decision to dissonate about. I had been somewhat interested in the ETEN X800 until some independent tests showed a slowness in its response - some people report it is now improved with some ROM changes, others don't think so.
My decisions tend to be based on the actual experience of the product - paper specifications simply weed out those that do not interest me to start with.
It's also interesting that the optimists here discount issues - eg. one reply to my "sand in my shoes" post suggested that by 2009 the Qualcomm Court injunction will be irrelevant as HTC will be using a different chip. But I don't really intend to change devices annually, so for me it is a potential issue, particularly as the outcomes cannot be easily predicted.
Supply is an issue - we've been given way too many false dates since August to believe "the next one". And there has been no real attempt at an explanation - but given the seemingly unglued screens and flimsy controls reported on some units, quality control on production issues may be a factor. Simply returning it is a very last resort, especially from O/S. It's far better to avoid the problems to begin with.
But then, without the optimists life would be dull I suppose. Even when they quote posts selectively ...

ianl8888 said:
It's also interesting that the optimists here discount issues - eg. one reply to my "sand in my shoes" post suggested that by 2009 the Qualcomm Court injunction will be irrelevant as HTC will be using a different chip. But I don't really intend to change devices annually, so for me it is a potential issue, particularly as the outcomes cannot be easily predicted.
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Click to collapse
The outcome is already known, replacement chips are ready according to Qualcomm, and you won't have to change your device - they won't make us hand our phones back in...
As I say, it's a non-issue for the end user.

rickgillyon said:
The outcome is already known, replacement chips are ready according to Qualcomm, and you won't have to change your device - they won't make us hand our phones back in...
As I say, it's a non-issue for the end user.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've discussed this out in another thread - so repetition is pointless. If you believe Qualcomm's rationalisations (after they have been convicted of knowing patent infringement), then I have some shares in the Sydney Harbour Bridge for you. Cheap, too. Such chips need to be fabricated, then assembled in new devices for testing. Qualcomm's "new" chips are also subject to a further Court examination next February before design release- the time and results of that are not predictable.
I'm not suggesting that the devices already sold will be recalled - do you understand the term "straw man" ? If world wide sales of the P3650 are repressed through this issue, HTC will reduce development and support for this model as fast as it can ... that's the core of my comments.
It's racking up real negatives. The only defence to this is cool examination of potential outcomes, or risk wasting money.

Chips need to be fabricated? Really? I'd never have guessed...
Fact is that Qualcomm, naughty as they undoubtedly are, have been working on this problem for some time as they knew they would lose. I see no reason to doubt that chips will be ready, and will be available. The reason Qulacomm will be hurrying out a replacement is to avoid the punitive commission they are paying right now.
HTC support? Surely you're kidding?
If, as you say, the issue stretches beyond early 2009, and supplies stop in early 2009, what's the difference? How often have you seen real support or development of an HTC product after the first few months? IME that support and development only comes in the cooked ROMs.
This still looks to me like the best device available right now, and with Qualcomm and HTC able to use the chip until 2009, not much of an issue for us. What's the alternative?

I am surprised at the amount of stick this device seems to be generating. I bought it as a replacement for my original Touch as I missed 3G and I have to say it's a fairly stunning device. Build quality on my unit is excellent, the slider and the scroll wheel are firm and responsive. The unit itself performs what I expect of it: PDA, email, fast internet. I fully expect this to be my longest lasting phone for quite a while, easily until end of FY 2009/2010. Problems like video drivers etc I don't really understand, it's adequate for a phone. If I want to watch videos I tend to use a full video capable device (eg PSP) rather than try to watch them on a phone.

SabbeRubbish said:
I wonder: why are we bashing this device more and more lately? The more we bash, the less people buy, the worse TC sales are, the less support we'll get and eventually we might wind up with NO software updates at all..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But if we don't bash them, they think everyone's happy with the current performance and they don't bother improving it or doing anything about it.

andyturner said:
But if we don't bash them, they think everyone's happy with the current performance and they don't bother improving it or doing anything about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No no, I do insist we bash them PERSONALLY, but not on the sales websites, as potential future customers may be scared in the future, even if the issue is already resolved, and therefore make the release of TC a fiasco, which would make HTC not distribute any sw updates...

Just a question:
How much would an external antenna help to get a better signal?
I would like to use the TC to track a short hike. Due to the test mentioned above, I would be forced to take the TC in my hand all the time. So I thougt I plug in an external antenna and fix the end somewhere to my clothes/backpack. Would that help?

Straputsky said:
Just a question:
How much would an external antenna help to get a better signal?
I would like to use the TC to track a short hike. Due to the test mentioned above, I would be forced to take the TC in my hand all the time. So I thougt I plug in an external antenna and fix the end somewhere to my clothes/backpack. Would that help?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Depends on the satellite coverage... My country has only 8 satellites covering it, so we couldn't utilize it fully even if we wanted to. (I don't know the background but thats the max number of lockons everyone gets around here)
But if your TC performs well in the city, i don't see any need for an external antenna, but an extra battery is a different story. And I hope you have other tracking softwares in your arsenal than the included TomTom...

gnick666 said:
...And I hope you have other tracking softwares in your arsenal than the included TomTom...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With TomTom it would be a very short trip.
No, I plan to use TrackMe which was created by someone here in the community. It allows you to turn of the display, so the device consumes less power.
The problem is, that the TC didn't perform that good and I was thinking if it performs better with an external antenna. Especially in wooden areas I hope to gain a significant better signal.

Straputsky said:
...Especially in wooden areas I hope to gain a significant better signal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You'd definitely get a better reception, but that would increase battery drainage. Bigger external antenna, heavier the drain on the battery.
But you can always pack the external antenna, and use it if needed. You won't loose anything, and we'd get some fieldtest results from the woods in Germany

@rickgyllion
Wot, no Harbour Bridge shares ? I'll even lower the price ! Oh well ...
"If, as you say, the issue stretches beyond early 2009 ..." I never said that, I simply pointed out that Qualcomm still faces unpredictable Court examination of its new designs. An inconvenient fact ...
"How often have you seen real support or development of an HTC product after the first few months?" Since the 1st non-English ROM devices have now been out a few months, one might think that stage has already been reached.
Between Qualcomm and HTC, it's a real stuff-up.
My attempt at resolution is that I have pre-ordered both the P3650 and an alternate non-HTC device. Both are due "in February" or "real soon now" or whichever comes first. When one or the other finally makes it to the retail market, then I'll make a decision.

World’s first 64GB microSD card

http://www.emoiz.com/worlds-first-64gb-microsd-card-from-kingmax

Is the sgs support sdxc?!
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

http://www.emoiz.com/worlds-first-64gb-microsd-card-from-kingmaxCompletely useless for us with the Galaxy S, as far as I know it doesn't support SDHX.
More Info

No android phone supports MicroSDXC at the moment

finally a breakthrew.that means soons will have 64gb(128??) internal storage and 64/128gb extantion~!! the days of the hard drive has ended~!

mrsufgi said:
finally a breakthrew.that means soons will have 64gb(128??) internal storage and 64/128gb extantion~!! the days of the hard drive has ended~!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is old news, not a breakthrough, the tech as been common knowledge for some time and in theory supports capacities up to 2TB. Not looking forward to seeing the prices, on top of the fact that I've yet to see any smartphone/tablet manufacturer announce any future support yet.
And HDD's have sod all to do with smartphones, how many handsets actually support USB OTG? HDD's are not in any danger of being replaced in laptops or desktops, cards would be too slow, and even SDD's aren't much or a threat due to their prohibitive costs.

DMD9 said:
This is old news, not a breakthrough, the tech as been common knowledge for some time and in theory supports capacities up to 2TB. Not looking forward to seeing the prices, on top of the fact that I've yet to see any smartphone/tablet manufacturer announce any future support yet.
And HDD's have sod all to do with smartphones, how many handsets actually support USB OTG? HDD's are not in any danger of being replaced in laptops or desktops, cards would be too slow, and even SDD's aren't much or a threat due to their prohibitive costs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Technology doesn't stand still though.
There may come a time when SDDs are cheaper to produce than equivalent HDDs due to economies of scale.

oh...stable maintain data ?

since my smartphone functions as a portable-dvd for me, this capacity sounds great. tho im sure this SD will cost more than my phone itself hehe

SpaZzzzz said:
since my smartphone functions as a portable-dvd for me, this capacity sounds great. tho im sure this SD will cost more than my phone itself hehe
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The capacity sounds good, but you'll need another/different phone to use it in though!

it doesnt support by SGS....

[Q] manufacturing a non camera smartphone

There are two questions (at the moment) that I'd like to be answered if possible.
1. How much would be needed to pay a manufacturer to create one?
High end internals, without a camera or a micro SD slot.
2. How can I get into contact with those that want one?
There are three reasons why I'm in the process of making one.
Variety of camera-less "smart phones" are shrinking. It's good to have choice
There is no one else doing it (so far, I think).
There is enough of a demand for others to have one.
Currently, there is a Shenzhen based manufacturer that gave me a positive reply regarding this matter so I still believe that there is some hope.

mononymous said:
There are two questions (at the moment) that I'd like to be answered if possible.
1. How much would be needed to pay a manufacturer to create one?
High end internals, without a camera or a micro SD slot.
2. How can I get into contact with those that want one?
There are three reasons why I'm in the process of making one.
Variety of camera-less "smart phones" are shrinking. It's good to have choice
There is no one else doing it (so far, I think).
There is enough of a demand for others to have one.
Currently, there is a Shenzhen based manufacturer that gave me a positive reply regarding this matter so I still believe that there is some hope.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think people will look for a specific phone without cam. I mean, of course they may not care if its 2MP or 8MP. If 1 such phone is released, it'll be immediately be bombarded with people who won't mind having an extra feature i.e cam. Do you think people who don't use cam much will NOT buy a smartphone because it has got a camera, although vice-versa seems possible.

there is a market...
lamborg said:
I don't think people will look for a specific phone without cam. I mean, of course they may not care if its 2MP or 8MP. If 1 such phone is released, it'll be immediately be bombarded with people who won't mind having an extra feature i.e cam. Do you think people who don't use cam much will NOT buy a smartphone because it has got a camera, although vice-versa seems possible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The target market are not the general consumers, it never was in this case which is why I brought up this small project of mine. The phone is aimed at people who due to their work have restrictions on what they can bring. For instance, officially I am not allowed to have a camera phone which has an expandable storage. Every once in a while, I see posts on various forums and blogs about a non-camera smartphone. Even here, there were others who were in the exact situation. The difference between them and myself is that for them, they at least had a choice in buying a phone that accomplished such goals.
You say that the phone will be bombarded by people who want it without a camera, I would disagree. As, there are plenty of other options form reputable manufacturer that would fit the bill. Since, from the start I am not planning to create a product that would compete with them since I am at a disadvantage, not only in terms of so called "features" but brand, support, availability.
I'm trying to target a niche that would exist for the foreseeable future and that is why I created this thread.

Overwhelmed by info overload - looking for a waterproof phone!

OK - I'm sure this might not be a popular thread, but a little help is why this forum exists - I hope?
I currently have a Sony Xperia Z5 Compact, and I'm looking to upgrade to a phone that has AT LEAST the same level of waterproofing, and a significant improvement in memory & processing power.
I'm also looking for something smaller than a 6" screen (preferably smaller than 5.5")
I'd like to have an SDcard slot, but don't need a 2nd Sim.
I'd like a phone that's going to have at least one OS upgrade (preferably to 12 when it arrives), does that still happen*?
I'd prefer not to have a Samsung, the cleanest Android OS possible would be preferable.
I am leaning towards a 'rugged' phone because I am a klutz and don't like using a case if possible.
* I haven't paid attention to the smartphone markets for a few years - the choice now is massive and overwhelming, and none of the specification comparison sites seem to have 'all' the available phones, often they're limited to Samsung/Apple/Xiomi and not much more (unless of course I simply can't find the one comparison site that truly has them all)

Riceburner said:
OK - I'm sure this might not be a popular thread, but a little help is why this forum exists - I hope?
I currently have a Sony Xperia Z5 Compact, and I'm looking to upgrade to a phone that has AT LEAST the same level of waterproofing, and a significant improvement in memory & processing power.
I'm also looking for something smaller than a 6" screen (preferably smaller than 5.5")
I'd like to have an SDcard slot, but don't need a 2nd Sim.
I'd like a phone that's going to have at least one OS upgrade (preferably to 12 when it arrives), does that still happen*?
I'd prefer not to have a Samsung, the cleanest Android OS possible would be preferable.
I am leaning towards a 'rugged' phone because I am a klutz and don't like using a case if possible.
* I haven't paid attention to the smartphone markets for a few years - the choice now is massive and overwhelming, and none of the specification comparison sites seem to have 'all' the available phones, often they're limited to Samsung/Apple/Xiomi and not much more (unless of course I simply can't find the one comparison site that truly has them all)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Since I live in europe, my personal fav is this website. Even if you don't live in EU, that site has an astonishingly good filter for products (they list the products even if no seller is available with all possible variants/last known price).
If you go to the mobile section and use the filter, you would need to apply a special features filter (namely the waterproof [submerged] IP65/IP68) filter. Adding the fact that you want a phone under 5.7" display size, I have found 370 phones ranging from 2011-2021 regardless of their OS or SoC (they have windows phones listed as well ).
You have a selection of 370 phones with your only limit being the price and the android 12 condition, both of which depend on you.
A reminder: Newer phones released in 2020 and up (shipped with android 10 or higher to be eligible for 12) are almost always 6" or bigger, phones such as pixel or OnePlus do come in smaller sizes, but they shy away from 3.5mmjack/sdcard and aren't as rugged. Maybe look into a phone with good android 11 custom ROM support in XDA forums. My personal fav device in your requirements would be a pixel 4a/5a if you're willing to forgo the sdcard/rugged part.

Slim K said:
Since I live in europe, my personal fav is this website. Even if you don't live in EU, that site has an astonishingly good filter for products (they list the products even if no seller is available with all possible variants/last known price).
If you go to the mobile section and use the filter, you would need to apply a special features filter (namely the waterproof [submerged] IP65/IP68) filter. Adding the fact that you want a phone under 5.7" display size, I have found 370 phones ranging from 2011-2021 regardless of their OS or SoC (they have windows phones listed as well ).
You have a selection of 370 phones with your only limit being the price and the android 12 condition, both of which depend on you.
A reminder: Newer phones released in 2020 and up (shipped with android 10 or higher to be eligible for 12) are almost always 6" or bigger, phones such as pixel or OnePlus do come in smaller sizes, but they shy away from 3.5mmjack/sdcard and aren't as rugged. Maybe look into a phone with good android 11 custom ROM support in XDA forums. My personal fav device in your requirements would be a pixel 4a/5a if you're willing to forgo the sdcard/rugged part.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
THAT is a useful link, many thanks!

Samsung could Launch a Bi-Folding smartphone in 2023

I have so far not been convinced to buy a folding phone, because it offers absolutely nothing of benefit over the bar form factor. At best, it offers a different form factor that people may like just for a change.
The current folding designs when unfolded do not offer the correct viewing experience. When watching videos, there are these black horizontal bars on top and bottom, which is a complete waste of space.
The screen isn't wide enough to be used as a tablet or laptop either.
Typing isn't comfortable either. We are far more comfortable typing on the phone in portrait mode than when it is in landscape mode.
Overall, the current folding design is a change just for the sake of it.
However, it is a step towards transition to a much better form factor - the Bi-Folding design with 3 screens and 2 folding hinges! The phones should ideally be shorter than the bar form factor (something like the Oppo Find N series), so they unfold to become a tablet of the right dimensions.
This will truly offer perfect viewing experience when unfolded with minimal black bars (or bezels), and offer large enough display area to use it as a tablet or a computer. One can keep the unfolded phone on a stand and use a bluetooth keyboard to type on it.
If this news turns out to be true, then we can expect to see much improvised products in 2026 when the 3rd or 4th generation of double folding phones would become a reality, and offer a perfect alternative to the bar form factor.
This would likely also kill the current folding phones and tablets too, which won't make much sense then.
Source

Samsung is beyond redemption now; lost in their own bs marketing hype while failing to listen to long time customers. Devoid of functional, useful innovation the majority of their customers want.
More folding junk that is going to cause issues, not have expandable storage or a long lifespan without repairs and be insanely expensive.
Worse they picked a global recession to try this expensive experiment. Sky high Development costs and imited production numbers will mean no profit. Their already horrible customer support will get worse.
The box of rabid wet gerbils know as Samsung isn't serving their customers or investors well. What could go wrong?
Samsung should have stuck to the basics; a bar form factor (rather than a bloody brick) with near zero bezel, lots of hardware features that boost functionality (like the spen and 2tb expandable storage), fast/efficient processors, 12gb of ram, better firmware/software innovations and balance. A price around or under $1G.

blackhawk said:
Devoid of functional, useful innovation the majority of their customers want.
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Click to collapse
Although there are a few useful features that are missing (such as a built-in Firewall, AppLock, Multiple Users, and above all dual cell superfast charging), OneUI has the most features on a smartphone in the market today. What innovation ideas do you have in mind?
blackhawk said:
Sky high Development costs and imited production numbers will mean no profit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As with the 1st Fold, this too wouldn't be a device made for profit during the initial years. Their production costs would be categorised as R&D during the initial years.
As with external storage:
External storage isn't coming on flagships for four reasons:
1. It is way slower than internal storage (although I think they should allow it to be used only for storing user files like documents and media, and block installation of apps and storing of their data).
2. This allows them to make a lot of money on their higher storage variants.
3. This also allows them to force users to buy their cloud storage plans.
4. Even external storage in the form of micro SD card are super expensive today. One can argue that it makes more financial sense to use an external SSD instead that would be much more cheaper.
Overall, I would say you tend to be a bit unfair on Samsung. There is always a scope for improvement with all products and brands.

The Samsung innovation failures is more pecking than I care to do right now. Simply making bloatware installable be a easy, simple, welcomed one.
$125 for a Sandisk Extreme 1tb V30 card. A 256gb internal memory is sufficient (even though Samsung sells "flagships" now with a mere 128gb and no expandable storage).
An external solution is vastly inferior to an onboard data drive for several reasons including convenience, reliability, accessibility and speed.
Someone who never set up dual drive systems has no clue how useful these are when implemented and used correctly. Including another level of data redundancy if the OS crashes or if the phone is physically damaged and for new phone setup. Using a dual drive is a no brainer.

blackhawk said:
$125 for a Sandisk Extreme 1tb V30 card. A 256gb internal memory is sufficient (even though Samsung sells "flagships" now with a mere 128gb and no expandable storage).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a good amount of money. For that price, you could get a 2TB SSD. Higher storage variants of micro SD card are very expensive.
blackhawk said:
An external solution is vastly inferior to an onboard data drive for several reasons including convenience, reliability, accessibility and speed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Assuming you are talking about micro SD card, that's true but only for convenience.
On speeds, they are no comparison to portable SSDs, which by themselves are slower than internal storage. Accessibility is limited to the device they are on. SSDs are much more reliable too.
blackhawk said:
Someone who never set up dual drive systems has no clue how useful these are when implemented and used correctly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would be an assumption. This is like me saying "someone who has never used a cloud service has no clue about how secure, convenient and useful they are".
We choose what works best for us. The best solution is one that fits into our requirements the best. And this is different for different individuals.
blackhawk said:
Including another level of data redundancy if the OS crashes or if the phone is physically damaged and for new phone setup. Using a dual drive is a no brainer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No one is disagreeing with this. The company takes decisions that would give them maximum revenue, not just today but going forward too. Removing features like this to push people into using the cloud is essentially an investment for future.

TheMystic said:
That's a good amount of money. For that price, you could get a 2TB SSD. Higher storage variants of micro SD card are very expensive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Samsung is charging far more than that for a 1tb phone and dozens of gbs of that memory is tied up.
TheMystic said:
Assuming you are talking about micro SD card, that's true but only for convenience.
On speeds, they are no comparison to portable SSDs, which by themselves are slower than internal storage. Accessibility is limited to the device they are on. SSDs are much more reliable too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Data drives don't need to be fast, duh.
SSD's are just flash memory... enterprise class hdds are more reliable (platters still readable most times even if hardware fails). If a flash drive fails electrically, it's DOA.
TheMystic said:
We choose what works best for us. The best solution is one that fits into our requirements the best. And this is different for different individuals.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The point is having the choice. Secure cloud servers? You mean like Samsung's recently hacked ones?
TheMystic said:
No one is disagreeing with this. The company takes decisions that would give them maximum revenue, not just today but going forward too. Removing features like this to push people into using the cloud is essentially an investment for future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Alienating your customer base is a surefire way to lose profits needlessly. Samsung's current management is deceptive, makes up bs stories and simply can't be trusted. Until they grow up they will face increasing consumer discontentment on a grassroots level.

blackhawk said:
Samsung is charging far more than that for a 1tb phone and dozens of gbs of that memory is tied up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Internal storage is much faster and this premium is for that. Besides, the higher end models of any product are very profitable for all companies.
Dozens of GBs you're talking about is just a mathematical calculation of storage space. There is a discussion on this here.
blackhawk said:
Data drives don't need to be fast, duh.
SSD's are just flash memory... enterprise class hdds are more reliable (platters still readable most times even if hardware fails). If a flash drive fails electrically, it's DOA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree and I mentioned that in post #3 as well. SSDs have the advantage of being very compact and pocketable, HDDs are not.
blackhawk said:
The point is having the choice. Secure cloud servers? You mean like Samsung's recently hacked ones?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I mean it would be more secure than any I can setup myself. This is true for most people too. Companies do tend to have qualified professionals to manage security and redundancies, so it is the lesser evil.
blackhawk said:
Alienating your customer base is a surefire way to lose profits needlessly. Samsung's current management is deceptive, makes up bs stories and simply can't be trusted. Until they grow up they will face increasing consumer discontentment on a grassroots level.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most customers use the cloud storage. There are some services thay offer TBs of storage for free too, although I would personally never use those.
Cloud storage indeed have a very big advantage: ease of access anytime, anywhere and on any device! A reputed company like Google, Microsoft, Apple, etc. would have a very strong system in place to prevent catastrophe.
Since majority customers use cloud storage, and companies also find this more profitable, I don't see why they wouldn't want to take this route.
A lot of noise was made when they removed headphone jack, when charger was removed, etc. But the consumer accepted the reality and moved on. How many do you think will do what you do: an old phone running on an old software? Very few.

TheMystic said:
Internal storage is much faster and this premium is for that. Besides, the higher end models of any product are very profitable for all companies.
Dozens of GBs you're talking about is just a mathematical calculation of storage space. There is a discussion on this here.
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Critical data doesn't need fast storage. Typically at least 30gb are tied up with the OS and apps if not far more especially with scoped storage.
TheMystic said:
I agree and I mentioned that in post #3 as well. SSDs have the advantage of being very compact and pocketable, HDDs are not.
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Hdds are used for bulletproof backups. One backup is not enough. I have a minimum of 4.
TheMystic said:
I mean it would be more secure than any I can setup myself. This is true for most people too. Companies do tend to have qualified professionals to manage security and redundancies, so it is the lesser evil.
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A data drive is a layer of physical security a single drive machine lacks. It's the first backup for the DCIM folder. It's where copies of all apps are stored; no Playstore needed for reloads or app repairs. The right vetted copy every time.
TheMystic said:
Most customers use the cloud storage. There are some services thay offer TBs of storage for free too, although I would personally never use those.
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That's an assumption Google and Samsung like to push. A market other companies will eagerly capture for very little investment. Inept Samsung. The user defines the market not the vendor.
TheMystic said:
Cloud storage indeed have a very big advantage: ease of access anytime, anywhere and on any device! A reputed company like Google, Microsoft, Apple, etc. would have a very strong system in place to prevent catastrophe.
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No internet, no nothing. I can watch hundreds of movies, play thousands of songs and do a full reload without the internet. The battery savings is worth it alone.
TheMystic said:
Since majority customers use cloud storage, and companies also find this more profitable, I don't see why they wouldn't want to take this route.
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An assumption again. Users who have limited storage are forced to use the only option they got. Sucks to be weak.
TheMystic said:
A lot of noise was made when they removed headphone jack, when charger was removed, etc. But the consumer accepted the reality and moved on. How many do you think will do what you do: an old phone running on an old software? Very few.
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Expandable storage is a completely different animal. A dual drive PC, smartphone, etc will always trump a single drive.
No 3.5mm jack means more wear and tear on the poorly placed and inconvenient (for headphones) C port. There's plenty of room in the huge, bulky cow, the S23U has room for both these features. What a horrible form factor it has. Please don't repeat the falsehoods Samsung's VIPs make.
Samsung is more hype than action now.

blackhawk said:
Hdds are used for bulletproof backups. One backup is not enough. I have a minimum of 4.
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All those are inaccessible until you physically connect them to your phone, or access them over the internet. They are pure backups.
I want you to also take into consideration 'accessibility' of data. This is only possible via an online server. If you have the expertise to setup a SECURE cloud on your own, then fine. Otherwise, the only option is to use a 3rd party cloud service.
blackhawk said:
A data drive is a layer of physical security a single drive machine lacks. It's the first backup for the DCIM folder. It's where copies of all apps are stored; no Playstore needed for reloads or app repairs. The right vetted copy every time.
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The hardware today is far better than those that existed during the floppy disk days. How often do you hear someone losing their data on a smartphone because of a disk failure? Most such cases (which by themselves are too few) are always a result of the user doing something he doesn't understand.
I too keep a copy of my favourite apps on my phone. Once in a while, I back them up to my PC (and my offline NAS). Same is true for other files. Photos and Videos are INSTANTLY backed up to multiple cloud storages, just as my documents. I do have a Google One subscription as well as Microsoft 365 subscription (which is best because it offers a total of 6 TB of cloud storage for a very reasonable price). And then I also sync them to my PC once in a while (not on a fixed schedule).
The most important advantage is the ease of access of these files from any device. Irrespective of which device I use, I have access to pretty much ALL files I need at any given point in time.
This is NOT possible if your setup doesn't use internet. And the moment internet comes into the picture, security is a major concern. Buying hardware to setup my own server is not a big deal. But keeping it secure is!
If you talk of recurring subscriptions, let me remind you that having local backups too require investment in hardware every few years, as it is not a question of 'if' but 'when' the disks would fail.
blackhawk said:
That's an assumption Google and Samsung like to push. A market other companies will eagerly capture for very little investment. Inept Samsung. The user defines the market not the vendor.
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Data Centers are EXPENSIVE investment. I don't know where you got your data from. Any cloud service provider has to setup a system which is secure, with built-in redundancies, and employ high quality professionals to manage it.
Big Players set these up in very cold countries to save on electricity, and keep multiple backups in different locations around the world to prevent catastrophe.
blackhawk said:
No internet, no nothing. I can watch hundreds of movies, play thousands of songs and do a full reload without the internet. The battery savings is worth it alone.
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As before, apps and services are continuously optimised and there isn't too much battery drain when streaming. On the contrary, video streaming is extremely power efficient even over the internet if you have a fast internet connection.
Check out the stats here. I don't think your N10+ would beat it.
blackhawk said:
An assumption again. Users who have limited storage are forced to use the only option they got. Sucks to be weak.
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This isn't an assumption. Most people indeed use cloud services. Check out Google Play Store to see how many people have downloaded apps providing cloud storage.
blackhawk said:
Expandable storage is a completely different animal. A dual drive PC, smartphone, etc will always trump a single drive.
No 3.5mm jack means more wear and tear on the poorly placed and inconvenient (for headphones) C port. There's plenty of room in the huge, bulky cow, the S23U has room for both these features. What a horrible form factor it has. Please don't repeat the falsehoods Samsung's VIPs make.
Samsung is more hype than action now.
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I'm all for having an expandable storage inside the phone just for saving user files and media. As mentioned before, I'm fine if apps aren't allowed to write 'AppData' to it. Companies are indeed trying to push customers to either upgrade to a higher storage variant or use the cloud, both of which means more money to them.
Removing the Headphone jack too was nothing more than pushing people to buy Bluetooth earphones. Space (or the lack of it) was just stupid excuse.
The Ultra series of phones from Samsung have a superb form factor. Not sure why you call them horrible.

TheMystic said:
The Ultra series of phones from Samsung have a superb form factor. Not sure why you call them horrible.
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Thicker, and 30gm heavier than the N10+ with a worse display/bezel ratio. Spen on the wrong side. blah. Small wonder the N10+ is still so popular.
With V60 and V90 rated flash cards out their speed is only increasing. There's no substitute for a dual drive device.
Just admit what Samsung won't; Samsung screwed up big time in multiple ways. Their tour of the hurt locker is going to cost them a lot. tff.