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1080p smartphones and 60fps plausibility?

I dont see a lot of chatter about 60fps recording on the latest batch of 720/1080p recording smart phones.. Is it even possible or just a matter of hardware limitations? Im just curious if we could see a future hack enabling 60fps or do we wait for manufacturers to offer it. thanks!

That would be SICK... But I don't think it'd be possible due to the size of the camera sensor in most mobile phones.

i just know that the HTC Bass (Runnymede) will be able to do 720p recording at 60fps.
afaik, there are no known phones that can do [email protected] currently.

socalwrx said:
I dont see a lot of chatter about 60fps recording on the latest batch of 720/1080p recording smart phones.. Is it even possible or just a matter of hardware limitations? Im just curious if we could see a future hack enabling 60fps or do we wait for manufacturers to offer it. thanks!
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Sounds like James Cameron's dream phone, to me. Cameron is pushing for the movie industry to adopt a minimum 60fp/s for movies.

is 60fps the limit? cant it go any higher?

Really isn't much benefit in going higher except for Video/Sports analysis, TBH. For just watching stuff, 60 FPS is good enough.

I understand that for general recording/watching 30fps is plenty. 24fps even.. Id just be interested for some cool slo-mo effects. even if it were capped at a short time due to the size of the file. Im just wondering if its hardware limitations (video encoding of the chipset, size of the sensor as previously mentioned) or just a matter of software tweaking; forcing the phone to record/encode @ 60fps.
I had an older LG phone that had a slo-mo effect that looked cool but quality took a big hit.

socalwrx said:
I understand that for general recording/watching 30fps is plenty. 24fps even.. Id just be interested for some cool slo-mo effects. even if it were capped at a short time due to the size of the file. Im just wondering if its hardware limitations (video encoding of the chipset, size of the sensor as previously mentioned) or just a matter of software tweaking; forcing the phone to record/encode @ 60fps.
I had an older LG phone that had a slo-mo effect that looked cool but quality took a big hit.
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agree
even if games / videos were made to run 60 fps, it's a waste of power
there's no point pushing more than 30 frames when human eyes can barely keep up with less than that

AllGamer said:
agree
even if games / videos were made to run 60 fps, it's a waste of power
there's no point pushing more than 30 frames when human eyes can barely keep up with less than that
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Don't agree at all. The difference is big and is easily proven. Seems to be some kind of urban legend that eyes cannot perceive faster movement than around 24-30fps
Check for example these example videos (using a modern browser on a modern PC).
http://www.boallen.com/fps-compare.html

tjtj4444 said:
Don't agree at all. The difference is big and is easily proven. Seems to be some kind of urban legend that eyes cannot perceive faster movement than around 24-30fps
Check for example these example videos (using a modern browser on a modern PC).
http://www.boallen.com/fps-compare.html
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This is an age old debate and is far more complex than that one example can cover. For video playback where you can't resolve individual frames though, 30 fps is more than enough.
Yes, we all like to see those beautiful bullet time type videos shot with fast cameras, but there are limitations other than processing power. In this case it's optical. The faster you shoot, the better lit the scene needs to be and the better the light gathering ability of the optics. Perfectly easy to overcome when you're lighting the scene and using proper hardware. Not so good when you're using a phone to do the shooting though!

I don't see the point of 1080p/60fps until they can do 1080p/30fps properly
Also better optics before moving onto anything else

DirkGently1 said:
This is an age old debate and is far more complex than that one example can cover. For video playback where you can't resolve individual frames though, 30 fps is more than enough.
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Sorry but I don't agree at all, and your post doesn't include one single argument for you statement so it doesn't make any change.
30 fps looks ok, but 60fps video looks more fluid. It is very obvious in fast moving videos, e g sports.
I know that movies are made for 24fps and have "motion blur" to remove the problems with low frame rate, and some people prefere this motion blur (i e movie captured with small aperture) but that is a matter of taste and doesn't change what looks more fluid or not.

HTC Vivid [email protected] http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_vivid-4302.php

That all depends on the GPU. Maybe the powervr sgx 543 can, seems the most plausible of all the GPUs available.

So those can shoot @60fps:
-LG G2
-Note 3
-HTC One (720p only)
Does anybody know more devices?
Maybe Nexus 5 after some camera hack...? I would buy if it had 1080p60

Samsung Galaxy S4 and S5 can record 60fps video as well

"DSLR" Video Mode For The Note III Camera

Hey all,
Here's a pretty cool macro DSLR effect I discovered the other day. FINALLY a use for 4K video resolution!
All you have to do when in video mode is select 4k (3840 × 2160) and zoom in 4x. When close to a subject tap to focus as usual and you may be shocked that the image suddenly has crazy depth of field but still remains sharp.
The reason? The camera module has an aperture of f/2.2 which is great, but that's not the real clincher. 4K UHD has 8,294,400 pixels in a frame. Just to give you an idea 1080p is only 2,073,600 pixels. So basically, when you zoom in 4x, your image still looks great. No other phone camera can do this in 2013.
Big deal, SO WHAT? you may be thinking. Well the results CLEARLY speak for themselves..
Happy shooting!

James Harrison said:
Hey all,
Here's a pretty cool macro DSLR effect I discovered the other day. FINALLY a use for 4K video resolution!
All you have to do when in video mode is select 4k (3840 × 2160) and zoom in 4x. When close to a subject tap to focus as usual and you may be shocked that the image suddenly has crazy depth of field but still remains sharp.
The reason? The camera module has an aperture of f/2.2 which is great, but that's not the real clincher. 4K UHD has 8,294,400 pixels in a frame. Just to give you an idea 1080p is only 2,073,600 pixels. So basically, when you zoom in 4x, your image still looks great. No other phone camera can do this in 2013.
Big deal, SO WHAT? you may be thinking. Well the results CLEARLY speak for themselves..
Happy shooting!
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Are you saying that if you record in 1080p mode and framed the shot exactly the same, that the depth of field would not be the same? I'm confused?
I understand the merits of 4K recording, but I don't see how the depth of field would be affected.

WOW! Cant believe all that comes from the small lens sensor of Note 3
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

Maverick777 said:
Are you saying that if you record in 1080p mode and framed the shot exactly the same, that the depth of field would not be the same? I'm confused?
I understand the merits of 4K recording, but I don't see how the depth of field would be affected.
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I probably should have explained this better but you can't really frame the same shot in 1080p because you'd be way too close to the subject for the camera to even attempt to focus on it. 4k allows much more flexibility for macro shots.

And do you have a 4K display to see this awesomeness?
Otherwise you're just watching it at 1080p lol.

James Harrison said:
I probably should have explained this better but you can't really frame the same shot in 1080p because you'd be way too close to the subject for the camera to even attempt to focus on it. 4k allows much more flexibility for macro shots.
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Now I'm curious how 4K video zoomed in 4x downscaled to 1080p compares to 1080p video zoomed in 4x. I wonder if Samsung is using software zooming to enlarge the video image or cropping the sensor to achieve the field of view. If it's software zoom then there's obviously going to be a loss in quality. But if it's simply cropping the sensor there should be no difference. And it fact it'd be a waste of time and memory space to shoot in 4k zoomed to 4x and then having to downscale it to 1080p afterwards. That would add unnecessary steps for editing. Also, in 1080p mode you have access to the software video stabilization while in 4k mode you don't.

it's not about the resolution lol. think putting on different DSLR lenses for your phone.
great find, OP! will be trying this soon

4k works with approx 50% more colours than normal 1080p. Even if you dont have a tv to warch it in full res, a 4k clip will look and FEEL rather different than everything else.
The clip in the above link is done with a little bit of postproduction. Indeed its impressing and there is more to be discovered.
_madness haven't any rest, only swet_

CorruptedSanity said:
And do you have a 4K display to see this awesomeness?
Otherwise you're just watching it at 1080p lol.
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lol, it's not about the resolution. it's kinda like being able to use different lenses for your note 3.
great find, OP. thanks!

Maverick777 said:
Now I'm curious how 4K video zoomed in 4x downscaled to 1080p compares to 1080p video zoomed in 4x. I wonder if Samsung is using software zooming to enlarge the video image or cropping the sensor to achieve the field of view. If it's software zoom then there's obviously going to be a loss in quality. But if it's simply cropping the sensor there should be no difference. And it fact it'd be a waste of time and memory space to shoot in 4k zoomed to 4x and then having to downscale it to 1080p afterwards. That would add unnecessary steps for editing. Also, in 1080p mode you have access to the software video stabilization while in 4k mode you don't.
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Cropping a sensor of say a 35mm legs by 1.6 doesn't give you a 56mm zoom perspective. You're still getting a relatively wide angle shot but simply cropped.

CorruptedSanity said:
Cropping a sensor of say a 35mm legs by 1.6 doesn't give you a 56mm zoom perspective. You're still getting a relatively wide angle shot but simply cropped.
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I understand that. However, in this instance is 1080p mode on the Note 3 simply cropping the sensor to begin with? My question in relation to the OP is if you shoot at 4K mode, zoom in a 4X, is the phone simply cropping the sensor 4x to give you a lossless zoom? Or it is using some type of software pixel binning to give you the zoomed in view? Or perhaps a combination of both.
And how does that compare to shooting in 1080p mode with the 4x zoom?
I took a few sample videos sitting at my desk and to my naked eye viewing both videos on the Note 3's screen, there is 0 difference between shooting at 4K resolution with a 4x zoom and shooting at 1080p at 4x zoom other than the file size. The field of view is identical. I'm looking to see if there's any advantage at the end of the day if I want to end up with a 1080p file as the end product. Is there any advantage to shooting the same field of view at 4K and downscaling?
The 4x zoom when shooting at 4K did not give me a distance advantage versus shooting 1080p at 4x zoom. The phone remained at the same distance as my subject when framing the shot with the same field of view. So for macro video shots, I do not appear to have any advantage when shooting at 4K.

Epic and very well done video!
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

James Harrison said:
I probably should have explained this better but you can't really frame the same shot in 1080p because you'd be way too close to the subject for the camera to even attempt to focus on it. 4k allows much more flexibility for macro shots.
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I think what he's saying is that no matter of 1080p or 4k, distance and senzor pixels are the same, therefore theoretically you shouldn't necessarily have to do 4k to do such zooming. Question is: in effect does zooming in 1080p still record lossless as far as the sensor goes (13mil pixels), or zooming in 1080p only zooms into the 1080p capture (magnifies the 2mil pixels).

Maverick777 said:
I understand that. However, in this instance is 1080p mode on the Note 3 simply cropping the sensor to begin with? My question in relation to the OP is if you shoot at 4K mode, zoom in a 4X, is the phone simply cropping the sensor 4x to give you a lossless zoom? Or it is using some type of software pixel binning to give you the zoomed in view? Or perhaps a combination of both.
And how does that compare to shooting in 1080p mode with the 4x zoom?
I took a few sample videos sitting at my desk and to my naked eye viewing both videos on the Note 3's screen, there is 0 difference between shooting at 4K resolution with a 4x zoom and shooting at 1080p at 4x zoom other than the file size. The field of view is identical. I'm looking to see if there's any advantage at the end of the day if I want to end up with a 1080p file as the end product. Is there any advantage to shooting the same field of view at 4K and downscaling?
The 4x zoom when shooting at 4K did not give me a distance advantage versus shooting 1080p at 4x zoom. The phone remained at the same distance as my subject when framing the shot with the same field of view. So for macro video shots, I do not appear to have any advantage when shooting at 4K.
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BoneXDA said:
I think what he's saying is that no matter of 1080p or 4k, distance and senzor pixels are the same, therefore theoretically you shouldn't necessarily have to do 4k to do such zooming. Question is: in effect does zooming in 1080p still record lossless as far as the sensor goes (13mil pixels), or zooming in 1080p only zooms into the 1080p capture (magnifies the 2mil pixels).
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I just assumed that zooming in ALWAYS "magnified" the pixels so you'd naturally just get sharper detail with the 4k mode. I now understand my error with the field of view though (I tried it out myself too)
I guess the main thing to take home is the amount of detail you're getting from this phone's sensor.

Camera tradeoffs

Appears to be two tradeoffs in the camera...
1) cannot use video stabilization at the same time as tracking AF
2) you lose a lot of the advanced capabilities in 1080p 60fps.
Which of these are worth the loss in people's opinion?

You only lose digital stabilization* during 60 FPS video filming. The hardware OIS remains active.
There are multiple downsides to filming consistently in 60fps, low light suffers and you lose a couple other video features in order to gain smoother motion.
For day to day video filming, 1080p 30fps is the ideal with the least amount of compromises, of course if you're filming a fast moving subject, flip the switch to 60fps.
Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

km8j said:
Appears to be two tradeoffs in the camera...
1) cannot use video stabilization at the same time as tracking AF
2) you lose a lot of the advanced capabilities in 1080p 60fps.
Which of these are worth the loss in people's opinion?
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It's a phone, I don't record videos like a professional.

km8j said:
Appears to be two tradeoffs in the camera...
1) cannot use video stabilization at the same time as tracking AF
2) you lose a lot of the advanced capabilities in 1080p 60fps.
Which of these are worth the loss in people's opinion?
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Click to collapse
Neither. Video stabilization is usually pretty annoying. The 60fps loss is a little bummer but for most activities 60FPS does little but take up more space anyways.
Also there is a loss of detail per frame in 60FPS. The S6 does 17Mbps @30fps but 28Mbps @60fps which has 2 times the frames. So the individual frame data is capped at 14Mbps minus audio.

Do you prefer 4K 30FPS or 1080p 60FPS video?

I'm personally leaning towards the 1080p 60FPS video from my brief tests. It's SO smooth. I wish we had a 4K 60FPS option...
What does everyone else prefer?

I would record at 4K 30fps over 1080 60fps because 1080 60fps is blurry compared to all other modes. I personally prefer 1080 @30fps because i dont have any 4K compatible tvs or computers.

k.s.deviate said:
I would record at 4K 30fps over 1080 60fps because 1080 60fps is blurry compared to all other modes. I personally prefer 1080 @30fps because i dont have any 4K compatible tvs or computers.
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I dont either but its considerably sharper on my screens and allows for zooming

k.s.deviate said:
I would record at 4K 30fps over 1080 60fps because 1080 60fps is blurry compared to all other modes. I personally prefer 1080 @30fps because i dont have any 4K compatible tvs or computers.
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I've never noticed blur. Did you notice on the phone or when viewed on a larger screen?

PunishedSnake said:
I dont either but its considerably sharper on my screens and allows for zooming
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I didn't know that.. I'll have to test the zoom.
PsiPhiDan said:
I've never noticed blur. Did you notice on the phone or when viewed on a larger screen?
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On the phone for sure, I haven't looked on a larger screen lately as I sent my phone to google on an RMA. I get the new device in a day or so so I'll have to look then.

k.s.deviate said:
I didn't know that.. I'll have to test the zoom.
On the phone for sure, I haven't looked on a larger screen lately as I sent my phone to google on an RMA. I get the new device in a day or so so I'll have to look then.
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I do lol thats why I use 4k cuz i can zoom without messing up the video quality

Either way, 60fps makes me want to barf and looks too fake. Like when people use the 120fps filter on their TV's. I think with free storage, may as well use 4k @ 30. Although, I feel the image stabilization is stronger @ 1080

Does the main camera have OIS ( optical image stabilization ) ?

Hi,
I want to buy a P20, however I'm curios if the main camera has OIS. Gsmarena says it does, however other sites don't mention anything.
So, does it or does it not ?
Thanks !

i doubt that. in movies mode there is only EIS.

g_oral said:
i doubt that. in movies mode there is only EIS.
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False. 1080 30fps and all still photos are optically stabilized.
1080 60fps has Electronic Stabilization. 4k has none.

zgomot said:
False. 1080 30fps and all still photos are optically stabilized.
1080 60fps has Electronic Stabilization. 4k has none.
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go to 1080p 30fps (stabilisation) mode and than change to 1080p 60fps (no stabilisation) you will se that in 30fps you see less on the screen because the phone is making crop for the EIS stabilisation. if there were an OIS the frame in 30fps and in 60fps should be the same.

g_oral said:
go to 1080p 30fps (stabilisation) mode and than change to 1080p 60fps (no stabilisation) you will se that in 30fps you see less on the screen because the phone is making crop for the EIS stabilisation. if there were an OIS the frame in 30fps and in 60fps should be the same.
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Check out any disassembly video, you will see the cameras have OIS. They physically move.
You see less of the screen because it crops from a 4:3 format in photo mode, to a 16:9 format in video.

zgomot said:
Check out any disassembly video, you will see the cameras have OIS. They physically move.
You see less of the screen because it crops from a 4:3 format in photo mode, to a 16:9 format in video.
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Ok if you have seen the module thats ok.
I'm seeing the crop change switching between the video modes.

See my post here if anyone is interested in higher resolution EIS on the p20. Works on mine at 3k resolution.
https://forum.xda-developers.com/hu...resolution-t3776382/post76617559#post76617559

I do not think the camera has OIS, or it has OIS but it is not enabled.
Looking with a flashlight in an iphone 7 camera, I can see the lens moving to compensate for the shakiness, however looking with a flashlight in the Huawei's lens, I cannot see the camera move in any direction ... So, no OIS here
I think it has AIS which is digitally stabilised by the AI.
Strange is that the iphone 7 only uses OIS for video ... If I switch to photo, the lens stops moving ...

There is no teardown video for the P20 which shows the camera module's inner parts moving. Can anyone confirm the OIS with any evidence? I think it might be there, but not enabled for sure.