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Using the phone while tethered to my laptop.. i got a message stating the above.. Is there anyway around this ridiculousness? I remember the Touch Pro had this issue at first as well.
Phen0m said:
Using the phone while tethered to my laptop.. i got a message stating the above.. Is there anyway around this ridiculousness? I remember the Touch Pro had this issue at first as well.
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First of all this is wrong section..
Second of all this is not ridiculous..this is how physics works...It is not the limitation of the phone, it is limitation of Lithium-Batteries...when charging and consuming a lot of energy like say with WIFI it causes Lithium batteries to heat up...at a certain point your phone stops charging to prevent the battery from exploding...this has been the same with ALL phones as long as they use Lithium batteries.
Solution: Put your phone on a metal platform..the metal platform will act as a heat sink and should alleviate the issue.
I remember there was a phone that was blowing up in peoples pockets when the battery came in contact with metal. Or was it the ipod touch?
But anyways you better give your phone a break too. Pull the battery for a minute and put it back in and Plug your evo in and let it charge off for like 15/20 minutes and then it should be ok to turn on. But if you wanna be safe just charge it while its off until its done
Sent from my HERO200 using XDA App
Kernel Devs, here's what I found, with pictures to document it.
Li-ion batteries are protected by current limiter chips. SBC kernels cannot exceed safe charging limits because the chips preclude ( stop) it. At the end of the post is a reference to the chip which controls the amperage and voltage, to and from the battery.
I decided to look inside one of my extended $10 3500ma EVO batteries, in order to see how SBC kernels could impact the battery.
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I took a series of pictures. Most were 10x and the chip number was 60x. Please be sure to check them.
VV - The four familiar contact pads for the battery.
VV - The picture (at 10x) below is of the chip which controls the operation of the battery.
It is surrounded by the red tape.
VV- The numbers on the controller chip are readable at 60x. Note
it says 8205A, and a mfg (date) code.
What I found was that a 8205 chip is used to provide protection and prevent over charging and over-discharging. Here is a quote from a google search.
S-8205A/B Series Applications-Optimized-Battery-Protection Circuits.
All contained voltage detectors are of high precision between 15mV and 100mV depending on the function. Overcharge detection voltage is 3.55V..4.4V with 25mV accuracy. Overdischarge detection voltage is 2.0V..3.2V with 80mV accuracy. Discharge overcurrent detection voltage is 0.05V..0.3V with 15mV accuracy and charge overcurrent detection voltage is -0.05V..-0.3V with 30mV accuracy. The detection voltage in short circuit case is 0.5V..1.0V with 100mV accuracy.
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Click to collapse
Since the batteries are hardware protected, SBC kernels cannot overule and exceed the protection.
Here is a sequel to this thread:http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=913401
It is a test of the battery protection circuit. The concept is one of standard electrons. No magical or invisible electrons allowed. If an electron is added it gets accounted for in any of the possible ways. Usually it's an increase in voltage / heat of the battery.
Good info thx for taking the time and gather this
from my phone duh
I guess my question is... if all this is true... why are we having multiple reports from multiple different people on multiple forums claiming failure with these kernels?
Also, wasn't it shown that the different Evo hardware versions came with different batteries?
So couldn't it be true that these "protection chips" aren't the same across the board?
Let me explain to you how I came to taking apart my battery.
It might shed some light on your question.
Any time I get a new battery, I always connect it directly to a 6v 2amp charger, with a volt meter across the pos. and neg. terminals.
Here's what I have found: All batteries charge to about 4.33v-4.38v; until they automatically disconnect from the charger ( the voltage goes to 7.2 v ). Judging from this I deduced that all batteries which I tested, stock, 1800ma, 2600ma, and 3500ma all have some hardware protection built in.
I can only guess that maybe some batteries have bad or out of spec. chips and circuits - faulty.
mattykinsx said:
I guess my question is... if all this is true... why are we having multiple reports from multiple different people on multiple forums claiming failure with these kernels?
Also, wasn't it shown that the different Evo hardware versions came with different batteries?
So couldn't it be true that these "protection chips" aren't the same across the board?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good info here. Thanks for taking the time to explore and test these things out. I have been suspecting that it was the battery that failed and not the kernel on these cases of screwed up batteries, Imagine how many people are using these SBC kernels and only 6 failures. I wonder how many battery failures happened that were not reported because no one was paranoid about this SBC kernel thing and just thought to themselves, "hmmm...I got a bad battery" and took it into Sprint and got it replaced. I am suspecting that most of the battery failures were not the stock battery, but a cheap $10 ebay battery which I use by the way. By using this cheap battery I have accepted the fact that it may fail on me and I may have to buy another $10 battery. I keep 2 on hand plus my original battery anyway, just in case. Thanks for you research willy900wonka. I am not saying that this research proves anything and I know this may turn into a flaming war. All I am saying is I don't think the kernel caused these failures, but a bad battery chip inside the battery as the OP stated.
mattykinsx said:
I guess my question is... if all this is true... why are we having multiple reports from multiple different people on multiple forums claiming failure with these kernels?
Also, wasn't it shown that the different Evo hardware versions came with different batteries?
So couldn't it be true that these "protection chips" aren't the same across the board?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
kill them softly... and slowly. These chips are present in all li-ion batteries but can only do so much
http://batteryuniversity.com/index.php/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
No trickle charge is applied because lithium-ion is unable to absorb overcharge. A continuous trickle charge above 4.05V/cell would causes plating of metallic lithium that could lead to instabilities and compromise safety. Instead, a brief topping charge is provided to compensate for the small self-discharge the battery and its protective circuit consume. Depending on the battery, a topping charge may be repeated once every 20 days. Typically, the charge kicks in when the open terminal voltage drops to 4.05V/cell and turns off at a high 4.20V/cell.
What happens if a battery is inadvertently overcharged? lithium-ion is designed to operate safely within their normal operating voltage but become unstable if charged to higher voltages. When charging above 4.30V, the cell causes plating of metallic lithium on the anode; the cathode material becomes an oxidizing agent, loses stability and releases oxygen. Overcharging causes the cell to heat up. If left unattended, the cell could vent with flame.
mattykinsx said:
I guess my question is... if all this is true... why are we having multiple reports from multiple different people on multiple forums claiming failure with these kernels?
Also, wasn't it shown that the different Evo hardware versions came with different batteries?
So couldn't it be true that these "protection chips" aren't the same across the board?
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Click to collapse
You say mutiple failures due to what? There have been 6 failures reported. Are they ALL true? Six out of how many EVO's on the market? Lets keep this in check!
mikebeam said:
You say mutiple failures due to what? There have been 6 failures reported. Are they ALL true? Six out of how many EVO's on the market? Lets keep this in check!
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http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=906230
swatspyder said:
http://batteryuniversity.com/index.php/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
No trickle charge is applied because lithium-ion is unable to absorb overcharge. A continuous trickle charge above 4.05V/cell would causes plating of metallic lithium that could lead to instabilities and compromise safety. Instead, a brief topping charge is provided to compensate for the small self-discharge the battery and its protective circuit consume. Depending on the battery, a topping charge may be repeated once every 20 days. Typically, the charge kicks in when the open terminal voltage drops to 4.05V/cell and turns off at a high 4.20V/cell.
What happens if a battery is inadvertently overcharged? lithium-ion is designed to operate safely within their normal operating voltage but become unstable if charged to higher voltages. When charging above 4.30V, the cell causes plating of metallic lithium on the anode; the cathode material becomes an oxidizing agent, loses stability and releases oxygen. Overcharging causes the cell to heat up. If left unattended, the cell could vent with flame.
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Click to collapse
Has anyone reported their battery catching on fire or are people just reporting batteries dying?
Very useful information thanks.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
So basically, there is a hardware failsafe designed to prevent these batteries from exploding... so what happens when one of the hardware failsafes fails? How many evos have people reported as faulty? Quite a few... we have seen bad screens, bad cases, bad buttons, etc. Who's to say that there haven't also been bad 8205a chips too? Maybe HTC even *gasp* KNEW that these chips were prone to failure and introduced the 90% charge in anticipation of this?
No one can be 100% sure if these "SBC" kernels are to blame. Correlation does not imply causation. But that said, I think that if you understand enough about the electrical engineering involved, you will realize that gaining 10% more battery life isn't worth the risk of a fire hazard and a destroyed phone. It's easy to say "hey, new kernel, cool!" But then if something catastrophic happens all of a sudden it's "oh crap why did I do that?!"
Of course you can do whatever you choose with your phone, it is your choice. I personally am not going to screw around with introducing potential instability to a piece of hardware that already has enough stability problems as it is.
mattykinsx said:
I guess my question is... if all this is true... why are we having multiple reports from multiple different people on multiple forums claiming failure with these kernels?
Also, wasn't it shown that the different Evo hardware versions came with different batteries?
So couldn't it be true that these "protection chips" aren't the same across the board?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, you are making the assumption that these batteries would not have failed if not for SBC. It is a post hoc argument (after this therefore because of this). Considering how many people are using SBC and the number of reported failures are tiny compared to the whole, I think it would be safe to say that there is no statistical evidence that SBC is causing the failures. If .01% of SBC users are experiencing failure and 99.99% are not, one has to question if there is a correlation.
If SBC is the problem, why are the vast majority of users experiencing no malfunction whatsoever?
Bottom line is we are messing with something that it took a team of engineers to figure out in the first place. My kids use my phone all the time and I'm just not willing to take a chance however small that might be.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
BuddaBelly said:
Bottom line is we are messing with something that it took a team of engineers to figure out in the first place. My kids use my phone all the time and I'm just not willing to take a chance however small that might be.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
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Yes, I think this is the most logical way to approach things. Although it is hard to prove that SBC is causing these failures based upon the small number of reported incidents, the potential benefit of using SBC is far outweighed by the potential risk of a lipo fire from an over-loaded battery.
For this reason I personally removed the SBC kernel from my phone and replaced it with a non-SBC kernel - even though I had never experienced any problems at all using SBC.
I'm not a battery expert but I can almost guarentee no one has their phone on a charger more than I do. I have a charging dock on my nightstand where it charges overnight everynight. In the morning, I take it off the dock, walk to my garage and plug in a car charger for the drive to work. Once at work, I disconnect it from the car charger and within a few minutes my Evo is sitting in another charging dock on my desk at my office. I would estimate that it is being charged over 20 hours per day. I have done this every day since I got the phone so if the SBC thing is causing the problems described I would think it would have affected my phone by now. I bet every problem reported was with a $10 eBay battery from China which probably don't have any protection chips, probably aren't even Li-ion and so on. IMO, YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR! To sell them so cheap the had to cut some corners somewhere.
Shinzul said:
So basically, there is a hardware failsafe designed to prevent these batteries from exploding... so what happens when one of the hardware failsafes fails? How many evos have people reported as faulty? Quite a few... we have seen bad screens, bad cases, bad buttons, etc. Who's to say that there haven't also been bad 8205a chips too? Maybe HTC even *gasp* KNEW that these chips were prone to failure and introduced the 90% charge in anticipation of this?
No one can be 100% sure if these "SBC" kernels are to blame. Correlation does not imply causation. But that said, I think that if you understand enough about the electrical engineering involved, you will realize that gaining 10% more battery life isn't worth the risk of a fire hazard and a destroyed phone. It's easy to say "hey, new kernel, cool!" But then if something catastrophic happens all of a sudden it's "oh crap why did I do that?!"
Of course you can do whatever you choose with your phone, it is your choice. I personally am not going to screw around with introducing potential instability to a piece of hardware that already has enough stability problems as it is.
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Click to collapse
See here is my thing with this particular argument. People say they don't want to put anything on their Evos or whatever phone they have that would introduce the possibility of instability. Um, YOUR PHONE IS ROOTED!!!! and you MIGHT NOT have the stock rom on your phone.
So basically you have ALREADY put your phone at risk. I'm not saying USE the trickle charge kernel by any means. It's your phone do what you want to do put what you want to or don't want to put on it. But you can't use that particular argument to justify WHY you wouldn't. If you don't want to risk your phone in any manner, unroot it and return it to stock. Plain and simple.
As for the warnings everyone is given, every kernel and rom has a warning. If someone wants to use it anyway, let em use it. If you don't want to, then YOU don't want to. I paid 300 bucks for my phone (got it brand new from a third party since I wasn't eligible to upgrade) then I paid 30 bucks for an extended battery with case. Would I be mad if my phone "blew up"? Yep
But my phone is often time COOLER while charging than when I am using it. My phone is in mid 80s easy while charing and mid 90s while using it. That's normal considering I am a SERIOUS multi tasker (you should see my visual task switcher sometimes) So maybe, just maybe, I am part of the 99% that isn't having any issues with the SBC kernels. I'll take the extra battery juice, especially since I do travel and I don't sit by an electric outlet all the time.
as ive said maybe these people with battery issues had cheap knockoff batteries.
Shinzul said:
So basically, there is a hardware failsafe designed to prevent these batteries from exploding... so what happens when one of the hardware failsafes fails? How many evos have people reported as faulty? Quite a few... we have seen bad screens, bad cases, bad buttons, etc. Who's to say that there haven't also been bad 8205a chips too? Maybe HTC even *gasp* KNEW that these chips were prone to failure and introduced the 90% charge in anticipation of this?
No one can be 100% sure if these "SBC" kernels are to blame. Correlation does not imply causation. But that said, I think that if you understand enough about the electrical engineering involved, you will realize that gaining 10% more battery life isn't worth the risk of a fire hazard and a destroyed phone. It's easy to say "hey, new kernel, cool!" But then if something catastrophic happens all of a sudden it's "oh crap why did I do that?!"
Of course you can do whatever you choose with your phone, it is your choice. I personally am not going to screw around with introducing potential instability to a piece of hardware that already has enough stability problems as it is.
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Click to collapse
Agreed. Even though I have insurance, the hassle, etc., is not worth the risk for approximately 10% more battery. With the wimax cm6 kernel I get good battery life under semi-heavy use.
Sent on the go from my HTC EVO
lyrical1278 said:
See here is my thing with this particular argument. People say they don't want to put anything on their Evos or whatever phone they have that would introduce the possibility of instability. Um, YOUR PHONE IS ROOTED!!!! and you MIGHT NOT have the stock rom on your phone.
So basically you have ALREADY put your phone at risk. I'm not saying USE the trickle charge kernel by any means. It's your phone do what you want to do put what you want to or don't want to put on it. But you can't use that particular argument to justify WHY you wouldn't. If you don't want to risk your phone in any manner, unroot it and return it to stock. Plain and simple.
As for the warnings everyone is given, every kernel and rom has a warning. If someone wants to use it anyway, let em use it. If you don't want to, then YOU don't want to. I paid 300 bucks for my phone (got it brand new from a third party since I wasn't eligible to upgrade) then I paid 30 bucks for an extended battery with case. Would I be mad if my phone "blew up"? Yep
But my phone is often time COOLER while charging than when I am using it. My phone is in mid 80s easy while charing and mid 90s while using it. That's normal considering I am a SERIOUS multi tasker (you should see my visual task switcher sometimes) So maybe, just maybe, I am part of the 99% that isn't having any issues with the SBC kernels. I'll take the extra battery juice, especially since I do travel and I don't sit by an electric outlet all the time.
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Rooting your phone and having a custom rom isn't the same kind of instability as potentially over-charging a Li-on battery. A few fc's probably won't blow up your phone.
fixxxer2008 said:
as ive said maybe these people with battery issues had cheap knockoff batteries.
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Click to collapse
This thread is a report of a stock one.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=904577
Again, there's no proof/evidence to show sbc doesn't this, but it's of course within the realm of possibility. And as most people have said.. is that extra few percent worth the risk? That's up to the individual,
ok guys i really need your help/opinions. my mytouch4gslide has recently been overheating while just casualy using it (facebook,twiitter,minor games,etc). and 2 days ago it started having horrible battery life it goes down 1 or 2 percent every minute or two. and also ive been trying alot of diffrent roms and im still trying each one out again but the problem is still there.before i was with tmobile i had an optimus v for virginmobile and the battery lasted much longer and it wouldnt overheat like this. im really tempted to send this to htc and get it fixed?replaced but i really cant wait two weeks without a phone. so guys tell me if this has ever happened to you or what i should do, i wish i still have the tmobile asurion insurence but i thought it was useless and canceled it last month, what shoudl i do?
o and i bought this piece of crap from tmobile for 500 dollers no sh!t and im still paying for it so i would really like it for it to get fixed
Yea, that's how much I paid for my first one too - well, still paying for...
Did you get insurance with your plan? Not sure if it covers the battery - but it did come with it, so I don't see why not.
Maybe take it in-store and see if you can get a manager or someone who could swap your battery out? Not sure if it works like that.
I'd be leaning towards the battery being shot, or on it's way there.
If it's overheating a lot, then it's just damaging the battery further - but it's also a sign of damage to the battery itself. Some of the cells are burnt out or malfunctioning and preventing/blocking/impeding or somehow just jamming up the electricity transfer in and out of the battery.
If you do an insurance claim, (if you got it with your plan) they ship you a new phone and when it comes in, you send your old one back. Think you have like 7 days to decide if you want the new one or keep the old one.
That would at least give you two batteries to test back and forth and see if it really is a battery problem (but that's the most likely answer)
You might consider getting an aftermarket battery?
On my second phone I swap out between the two HTC batteries I have, and in my plan phone I have the Anker battery I got. The Anker never gets as hot as the stock battery (either one) for the same workload, and I can push the device with the Anker to do much, much more then the one with the stock battery.
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I did do an HTC warranty repair on my second device, and I had to ship it back, they fixed, and sent it back to me. Didn't take that long, less then 13 days (probably by a few days) I could look up my records and find out exactly how many days I didn't have it including my shipping to them - but once they had it, it was speedy service.
The HTC people were an absolute pleasure to deal with on the phone, extremely helpful and taking the time to patiently answer all of my questions or look up accurate answers if need be (and they had to a few times, but you could imagine the grilling of questions I gave an HTC rep since I was on the line with them already)
Definitely seperated themselves from the vast majority of companies i've dealt with for customer service issues (beyond phones into other stuff too)
So past making some awesome tech the people behind it have been fantastic in my experience.
(even if they do make a ****ty battery they should be ashamed of - phone company, not a battery company, but the quality of the battery is way out of spec for the device it's in )
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Sorry to hear about your troubles, but I have a feeling that people are going to start following you who have been using the stock battery for as long as you have.
It generates too much heat, is too inefficient, and that makes it break down faster and die quicker. The more it dies, the less efficient it gets, and the quicker it reaches the end of it's service life.
If I were in your shoes, i'd call the battery shot and start worrying about what that amount of heat is doing to the device itself, specifically its Snapdragon processor. Heat is enemy numbers 1, 2 and 3 for the processor, especially one pushing the limits of it's design like the Snapdragon does.
If you are running an OC kernel, i'd stop that immediately. Hopefully you aren't or haven't been.
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I'd say go to a T-Mo store and start there, do an HTC direct warranty replace as a last resort and consider an aftermarket battery.
The Mugen batteries are unquestionably higher quality then the Anker batteries, but much pricier too.
The Anker battery is far and away better then the garbage stock battery - so even that would be a step up and it's what I run and like using.
(when I can afford to i'm gonna step up to the Mugen battery and gift the Anker to my second phone)
If I were you i'd overnight an Anker battery and stop in a T-Mo store tomorrow to see what your options were and how they were going to make it right for you.
Worst case is an HTC warranty, it's still in the warranty period, the phone hasn't been out for a year yet. I know that's the least desirable option, but if you do have to go that route make sure to mention how the heat has probably damaged the phone itself and they should have a tech or two go over the whole thing with a fine tooth comb. That heat against the processor has really shortened the lifespan of your device.
I say this because sometimes I put down my second phone and turn it off to save it from the heat of a functioning stock battery - a broken one would be a lot more of a concern.
Wish I could say something more positive, but while you are in warranty and have options is not the time to ignore issues that could bite you later.
Edit:
Especially since this is clearly not your fault - you are using the battery provided to you with the device itself, and that is now malfunctioning. You didn't do anything to cause this, it's either dumb luck with an even worse battery then normal that HTC themselves provided you, or you are the first of more who are hitting the end of service life on the battery the device came with.
It sucks that the worse it gets, the more quickly the problem gets worse. It's a vicious cycle that there is no way out of, because just using the battery breaks it more.
Even if you have to be without a phone for a week because you have to ship it back to HTC (worst case scenario from your point of view, since you have no device in the meantime) they'll make it right for you. This device is too awesome, and costs too much money, to settle for something that's defective - especially since it's not something you did, just the way it came.
Let's just hope for everyone's sake you got a particularly bad battery and this doesn't turn into an epidemic. Because the overheating of the battery basically breaks it more and more quickly, this is about the right amount of time for them to start crapping out if you got it within the first month of launch.
(based on the ludicrous - yet identical - amount of heat i've been experiencing from two stock batteries is where i'm framing this fear from)
Edit again:
Sorry, noticed you said you cancelled insurance, i'm pretty tired, but i'll leave what I said in case it helps someone - I wouldn't hesitate to call up HTC and file a manufacturers warranty claim, it should be covered since it's their branded battery that failed. I definitely give them a very high rating for customer service from my experience - I have nothing but good things to say about them to anyone who will listen.
The anker battery definitely will cool down your device. It seems like our stock battery takes a sh*t after about 3 months... Once I got the anker battery I loved the phone so much more, I recommended it to all my friends with sensations/mt4gs phones.
My one friend ended up getting himself 3 ankers, so he always keeps one on the wall charger, one in the phone, and one fully charged in his pocket. He doesn't even plug the phone into the wall anymore. If you do something like him, your phone will also avoid the heat involved with charging via usb
Sent from my RubiX ICS Infused using Tapatalk
leoilios said:
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My one friend ended up getting himself 3 ankers, so he always keeps one on the wall charger, one in the phone, and one fully charged in his pocket. He doesn't even plug the phone into the wall anymore. If you do something like him, your phone will also avoid the heat involved with charging via usb
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, you trade wear and tear of one part for wear and tear on another. The wear and tear on the USB jack is much, much worse then the wear and tear on the battery contacts.
The USB jack will wear out long before the battery contacts wear down.
The other part of it is every time you open the back of the device you expose the internals to dust and environmental contaminants.
I'd say as long as it's clean, not dusty or anything when you make the switch, that's the better way to go - as long as they are the same battery (which is what you said your friend had ... all good there)
The big thing would be to not make the switch outside. Try to do it indoors, in still air.
The most dust-free room of any house is most likely the bathroom. Limited to no carpeting and usually much less air space for things to be floating around in, close the window and give it ten minutes to settle first and that's probably the best location to do it. Especially if it's real tile, that's the absolute least opportunity for all the dust and fine particulates on the floor in the rest of the house to be present.
So your friends mode of operation (if when changing the battery conscious of dust and fine particle contamination) is probably the best method to stay charged and put the least wear on the device - except maybe an induction charging backplate.
The only problem with the induction charger is finding a case you can work on it with. I don't have one, but if it's the same size as the standard phone dimensions, then you could use the trident case and not scratch the device up taking it off an on (the trident case is mostly soft plastic and rubber, not hard and sharp plastic)
The downfall to the induction charger is you need a charge plate every where you go, so once you factor that liability in, what your friend is doing with 3 Ankers is probably the best method to keep the phone charged while doing as little damage to it through normal wear and tear possible.
Score a point for creativity and efficiency. I might change my mind about the Mugen and just get a few more Ankers to duplicate the method, after thinking about it. If there's a better way, why do anything else? That seems like it'd be worth buying the extra batteries for, i'll just pay attention and snipe some on sale.
Thanks for sharing, that's a happy tidbit of info and i'm definitely going to work towards implementing it. I want this device to last me as long as I can make it, and any way of taking better care of it or doing something like the battery swap method that just makes way more sense is always welcome to hear about.
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I should've gone to sleep already since I have to get moving in just a few short hours - but after typing out my previous reply I figured i'd swap my stock battery since you shouldn't let them sit without being used for a long period of time.
(I wish I could charge the stock batteries out of the device, I could copy a shorter version of that method with my two stock batteries - oh well.)
Anyways, when I did, I noticed something. Each came with one of my devices, and they are both the same battery, but they are backwards. It looks like it was deliberate, too, because all the markings are correct for + / - and whatnot.
Don't know what to make of it, so I figured i'd share just to get the info out there in case it's of use to anyone - (for what, I have no idea) - but they both suck equally, so there's no benefit of less heat for one or the other, and they both last about the same amount of time near as I can tell without actually measuring.
Doesn't seem like one lasts longer then the other, and i'm pretty sensitive to that kind of stuff. If people are curious i'll measure them a couple of times each and see for sure, if not I won't waste my time when there's other work to do.
Anyways, I snapped some pictures of it to illustrate what I mean, since describing it would end up being confusing for some and i'm half delerious as it is.
They are both the same:
- brand = (HTC)
- model = (BG58100)
- Rating = (3.7VDC)
- Capacity = (1520 mAh)
- Watt Hours = (5.62Whr)
Different serial numbers, and Different part numbers.
The one that shows the writing/bar code side up when installed in the device is:
- part number 35H00150-00m
The one that shows the blank side up when installed in the device is:
- part number 35H00153-00m
Does anyone out there have any other part numbers for the stock batteries? I wonder how many versions there are and if there are any differences between them.
Two of my friends got this device after seeing all the cool stuff I could do with it and being less then impressed with the devices the rest of our/their friends had - they needed a hardware keyboard too so obviously this was the answer.
I will check their stock batteries and see what they are, if it's anything different i'll post that too - might take a few days or so to get ahold of them and find out.
I should have noticed this a long time ago. Anyways, here's the pics to illustrate the outward differences:
no worrys i just charged my phone all night and its workin good again, and i do have anker. im on your bulletproof rom and ive been off the charger for an hour and ive been texting and playing games and its still at 100 percent
Blue if ur gonna copy my friend, keep the spare in a ziplock bag, moisture is one of the reasons people say u shouldn't leave them out and unused for long periods of time
Sent from my RubiX ICS Infused using Tapatalk
wiswis said:
no worrys i just charged my phone all night and its workin good again, and i do have anker. im on your bulletproof rom and ive been off the charger for an hour and ive been texting and playing games and its still at 100 percent
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Awesome to hear you're in good shape again.
Was the problem you were having with the stock battery or the anker?
leoilios said:
Blue if ur gonna copy my friend, keep the spare in a ziplock bag, moisture is one of the reasons people say u shouldn't leave them out and unused for long periods of time
Sent from my RubiX ICS Infused using Tapatalk
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I have some nylon camera cases i've been using to carry around the doubleshots, and they have pockets that I slip things like memory cards, cables and the stock batteries in (whichever one isn't being used).
Appreciate the heads up, but I got the cases to keep the doubleshot behind a zipper to keep dust out, and when the accessories are in the zipper pockets they are protected enough. There isn't a lot of fog where I live, only rarely and otherwise the ambient moisture is not very high so it's not a big deal.
If I didn't have the cases, though, i'd definitely be using something like that. There were a couple of times I carried the doubleshot itself around in a ziplock bag back in august, if it was raining or going to rain that's how it left my house in my pocket. That's what prompted me to get the nylon cases - and though they aren't waterproof or anything, it's enough to not have to worry about it.
If i'm going to be in the rain then that's what I do - i'll have to come up with something better before it hits the rainy season around here - this time of year it doesn't rain often.
I'm having a similar problem, though not as extreme.
My phone's battery doesn't actually heat up but the area around the simcard. I'm running Pyroice with the extreme UV kernel and underclocked the CPU to 810mhz Max with setcpu 2.1.1a but it still warms up around the simcard area. I also never get anything better than 12hrs battery life.
Should I be worried?
sent via my messenger dog
cybot_x1024 said:
I'm having a similar problem, though not as extreme.
My phone's battery doesn't actually heat up but the area around the simcard. I'm running Pyroice with the extreme UV kernel and underclocked the CPU to 810mhz Max with setcpu 2.1.1a but it still warms up around the simcard area. I also never get anything better than 12hrs battery life.
Should I be worried?
sent via my messenger dog
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I have had this same problem from day one. Even with the anker battery, and on every rom I have tried. I sometimes use flat icepacks to cool it down when it gets too hot. I haven't found anything fix.
Sent from my Bulletproof_Doubleshot using XDA App
I use my Mugen as my regular battery and my two Ankers as spares. I only have the OEM battery in case I need to send it to T-Mobile.
So I got the model numbers from both stock batteries that my friends have for their phones. Both are the same.
- part number 35H00153-00m
...and that matches one of the ones I have from above.
Anyone else have any other model numbers on their stock batteries that are different?
It would be nice to know what's out there and if a particular model seems to do better then another.
----
I run both stock batteries in one phone, and the anker in the other. Very rarely does the anker device get hot enough that I take notice and pay attention to it, but it does happen.
The one swapping out stock batteries back and forth can trigger a battery switch if it has been two days and I haven't swapped, or it gets too hot.
If it gets too hot I turn it off, let it cool down and then turn it on with the other battery. I try to keep the one not in use as full as viable, but never less then about halfway for more then a short while.
Enough people have shown a serious reduction in heat of the device by using an aftermarket battery that we've concluded pretty solidly that the stock battery is responsible for a large portion of the excessive heat.
Heat is the number one enemy of these kinds of batteries and microprocessors. If it starts to get hot enough to be uncomfortable in your hands, then you should start thinking about letting it cool down before running it so hard.
It happens more frequently then i'd like with the device running stock batteries, but I always make the decision that whatever i'm doing isn't worth aging the device and reducing it's service life just because I couldn't stop using it for a few minutes to let it cool off. The money I spent on it means more the longer it's in service, abusing it unnecessarily is wasteful to me.
I'm pretty particular about things like that, just my way. Your mileage may vary.
Blue: my stock battery has the same product number
i can't really say i've noticed it getting hot enough to take notice of it, but then again, i mainly use the Anker, since i only need to charge it once a day.
i was wondering if there's a chance that the heat issue is something HTC addressed in the last OTA update? definitely hard to say, but possible i suppose. perhaps i can try using the stock battery on the newest stock ROM and see if it heats up.
I doubt it's a matter of software or we wouldn't see much if any change when swapping to a different battery like the mugen or anker.
Any theory is valid until disproven though, and you never know unless you try so let us know how it turns out.
I found that my phone wouldn't turn on at all after charging it overnight, which I do every day. Might I have to get a battery replacement? If yes, two questions: where and how much? Or what are some things I can try out. I have also recently flashed a CM 10.1 ROM and have gotten battery problems with it like overheating and drainage.
*update*
Most likely not a battery problem since my computer was able to detect it. I also plugged in my MHL cable and nothing happened
You're not the first person with this issue. It's in a bricked state. I'd leave it unplugged for a while and then try plugging it in overnight again and see if you can power it up.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app
exad said:
You're not the first person with this issue. It's in a bricked state. I'd leave it unplugged for a while and then try plugging it in overnight again and see if you can power it up.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app
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I saw a similar post but the person's phone had a red light and also tried a search but couldn't find another thread with the same problem. And thanks for the suggestion man! Is there an alternative way so I can deplete the battery? I can't tell if the phone is on or off since my computer doesn't recognize it anymore. Would it be safe to cover it with a towel so the heat can do its work on the battery?
Are you sure it's the battery and not the screen?
Sent from my HTC One XL using xda premium
jun10rocks said:
I saw a similar post but the person's phone had a red light and also tried a search but couldn't find another thread with the same problem.
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The red light might not come on at first, but might after charging for a few hours. Just let it charge (wall charger, not from a computer USB) and leave it be for a while.
jun10rocks said:
Would it be safe to cover it with a towel so the heat can do its work on the battery?
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Charging efficiency for Li ion batteries is 97-99% regardless of temperature, as long as its above freezing (which I assume is not your situation). While higher temperatures may reduce internal resistance slightly (and therefore a minor improvement in charging time), I'd say its not worth the risk of covering the device, as thermal runaway can cause overheating, and even a fire or explosion. Anything near room temperature is fine for charging, and heat is generally the enemy of electronic devices.
timmaaa said:
Are you sure it's the battery and not the screen?
Sent from my HTC One XL using xda premium
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I updated the OP yesterday stating that it may not be the battery.
redpoint73 said:
The red light might not come on at first, but might after charging for a few hours. Just let it charge (wall charger, not from a computer USB) and leave it be for a while.
Charging efficiency for Li ion batteries is 97-99% regardless of temperature, as long as its above freezing (which I assume is not your situation). While higher temperatures may reduce internal resistance slightly (and therefore a minor improvement in charging time), I'd say its not worth the risk of covering the device, as thermal runaway can cause overheating, and even a fire or explosion. Anything near room temperature is fine for charging, and heat is generally the enemy of electronic devices.
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Ok thanks for heads up about a future explosion that could've happened. I have left the phone charging and still haven't gotten any sign of something working. I'm not sure what's the exact problem so I can't really look more into it.
*Problem kind of solved*
I got my phone replaced in an At&t store, good thing is that they didn't ask me if I had warranty (which I never get) or if the phone was unlocked
jun10rocks said:
*Problem kind of solved*
I got my phone replaced in an At&t store, good thing is that they didn't ask me if I had warranty (which I never get) or if the phone was unlocked
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All HTC devices come with a 1-year warranty standard. AT&T doesn't offer extended warranties, only insurance (which I never get either).
If you tried charging the phone overnight, and short of various button combos (I've seen one guy on here, that for some odd reason, the phone only turned on when he did the hboot combo while the phone was plugged to the charger) there is not much you could have done, and it was likely a hardware issue. Which is a justified warranty replacement.
AT&T doesn't care if the bootloader is unlocked, rooted, custom ROM, etc.
redpoint73 said:
All HTC devices come with a 1-year warranty standard. AT&T doesn't offer extended warranties, only insurance (which I never get either).
If you tried charging the phone overnight, and short of various button combos (I've seen one guy on here, that for some odd reason, the phone only turned on when he did the hboot combo while the phone was plugged to the charger) there is not much you could have done, and it was likely a hardware issue. Which is a justified warranty replacement.
AT&T doesn't care if the bootloader is unlocked, rooted, custom ROM, etc.
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Thanks for the info! Yes, I have tried every combo that I've looked up. I'm just glad to have back the opportunity to keep on trying out new ROMs and providing feedback when possible.
Hey guys,
eveybody wants to keep the old tablet, but what about the actual potential fire hazard? I'm sure nobody wants to risk their life or that of others.
So my question: Is the battery a risk by itself? Or can the overheating issue be controlled my reducing the heat inside the tablet (i.e. lowering voltages, CPU frequencies, charging less aggressive, etc)?
I can't seem to find any information about that but I find it hard to believe that nobody actually cares.
Cheers
This page says that there were only 4 reported cases of overheating so far, so I wouldn't worry too much. And even if you are still worried, you can remove the battery and have the tablet only get powered through USB (as it can still make a good HTPC or similar).
Yeah I'd like to keep using the tablet as is, hence the question. In the link it says "overheating due to thermal runaway" but I can't quite figure out why that happens.
Maybe somebody here knows a little more details about the way the battery functions and if it's an issue originating from the battery or just external heat that the battery can't handle. I'd guess it's a manufacturing defect but I hope it's just a "weak" battery.
I'd like to yank the battery and only have it as a TV based system. However when I pulled the battery, the tablet won't turn on. I'm sure I have to complete the circuit. Can I just get a resistance reading from the battery and solder in a resistor of the same rating?
scorpionx said:
I'd like to yank the battery and only have it as a TV based system. However when I pulled the battery, the tablet won't turn on. I'm sure I have to complete the circuit. Can I just get a resistance reading from the battery and solder in a resistor of the same rating?
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http://forum.xda-developers.com/shi...let-due-to-t3169461/post62305413#post62305413
hansi223 said:
In the link it says "overheating due to thermal runaway" but I can't quite figure out why that happens.
Maybe somebody here knows a little more details about the way the battery functions and if it's an issue originating from the battery or just external heat that the battery can't handle. I'd guess it's a manufacturing defect but I hope it's just a "weak" battery.
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Don't take my word as the absolute truth, but basically:
Do a search for phones catching fire and you'll see reports of many devices that have experienced it - from Apple to Samsung, etc.
All lithium batteries are classified as dangerous goods in general. (At least in Canada: https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/tdg/lithium-batteries-are-dangerous-goods-1162.html )
When they've been subjected to damage (drops, bumps, punctures, crushed) the risks increase significantly. A battery can short itself internally (regardless if the device it's in is powered on or off or charging; or even if the battery is sitting out loose disconnected).
A shorted battery (not just lithiums for that matter) result in an extremely high current drain internally (mathematically, it would be infinite but realistically that's not the case) which results in extreme heat which can lead to fire or explosion and the release of toxic fumes - the potential for the fire to spread is the real risk. Some batteries simply swell up and fail.
We've seen numerous reports of swelled Shield batteries and a reported 4 cases of fire, 2 of which lead to "floor damage" - could have been much worse (again, just do a generic search for any device regarding battery fires). How many bumps/drops these devices were subjected to is unknown though..
A lithium battery could be considered "safer" once it's been completely drained of energy (and since lithiums are never drained completely, they're never 100% safe; and even then, the chemicals themselves are still highly flammable).
Sent from my SHIELD Tablet using XDA Free mobile app
Thanks for the detailed explanation!
From what you said I would assume that any battery is like the Shield battery with the only difference being Nvidia got cold feet and wanted to avoid negative PR, getting sued, whatever. While I can understand that part, I still have a hard time trusting a tablet/battery that has been declared faulty.
So if its the battery itself then lowering voltages/frequencies to keep the device cooler wouldn't make any difference, right?
hansi223 said:
Thanks for the detailed explanation!
From what you said I would assume that any battery is like the Shield battery with the only difference being Nvidia got cold feet and wanted to avoid negative PR, getting sued, whatever.
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No.
nVidia has deemed that the batteries ARE defective AND pose a fire risk.
Upon inspection of the batteries, they identified a fault (in manufacturing/workmanship, etc.). They've determined the fault serious enough to warrant a world wide recall of ~100,000 tablets.
You can draw your own conclusions and make your own decisions based on that.
Sent from my SHIELD Tablet using XDA Free mobile app
Does anyone have a source for replacement batteries?
if I approached the ear to the back of old tablet while working (i.e. Antutu benchmark) I hear a noise like that of hard drives for PC. It is definitely the bad battery. No noise with the new tablet. It happens to you?
I think the best solution is to replace the battery but I have not found one with the same size and characteristics.
Inviato dal mio SHIELD Tablet con Tapatalk 2
ivanfix said:
if I approached the ear to the back of old tablet while working (i.e. Antutu benchmark) I hear a noise like that of hard drives for PC. It is definitely the bad battery. No noise with the new tablet. It happens to you?
I think the best solution is to replace the battery but I have not found one with the same size and characteristics.
Inviato dal mio SHIELD Tablet con Tapatalk 2
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No, the sound you hear is the coil whine, not from the battery but the chokes. See coil whine.
All the similar sized batteries seem to be from dealers/manufacturers outside the US and who knows the quality of those. I'm not sure I'd trust a replacement battery anymore than the one that has been working fine for 80,000+ users and myself for the last year. The number of tablets that have overheated\caught fire is 4 of 88,000? That's %0.0000454545 percent of failures that ended in a fire. I am not encouraging or condoning anyone to use a Y01 battery tablet, but as to OPs question I think the risk is pretty low.
scarywoody said:
All the similar sized batteries seem to be from dealers/manufacturers outside the US and who knows the quality of those. I'm not sure I'd trust a replacement battery anymore than the one that has been working fine for 80,000+ users and myself for the last year. The number of tablets that have overheated\caught fire is 4 of 88,000? That's %0.0000454545 percent of failures that ended in a fire. I am not encouraging or condoning anyone to use a Y01 battery tablet, but as to OPs question I think the risk is pretty low.
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CPU-Z reported my battery at 90 degrees Celsius after 20 minutes of Time Clickers. The back of my tablet was beyond uncomfortable to hold but not damaging to my hands and my tablet has heated to the point of shutting down. No fires yet but I'm not pushing my luck
scarywoody said:
The number of tablets that have overheated\caught fire is 4 of 88,000? That's %0.0000454545 percent of failures that ended in a fire.
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I make it 0.0045%. A low percentage but high stakes (bad things happen when houses catch fire, and lithium battery fires can be explosive). Also this is the number that have failed in the first year of life. Subsequent years may have a higher rate of failures as the batteries degrade.