Fire HD 8 Gen6 5.6.2.0 rooting/bloat removal help - Fire HD 8 and HD 10 General

been reading non-stop it seems about how to remove bloatware and root Fires. i just picked up this Fire HD 8 gen6 and it unfortunately has 5.6.2.0 installed. everything using this version seems to be for gen7 fires. is there any guides for this OS version and generation? i keep getting FAILED_INTERNAL_ERROR for majority of the programs. i try to stop the processes for each package but it doesn't help. while i would like to jsut remove alot of the bloatware, i wouldnt mind getting it down to bare bones because i only really need it to use Torque Pro app for my truck. i already have Google Play and Torque installed

What have you tried as far as commands go? Would help to eliminate anyone recommending you try certain ones you've already tried.
Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

well im not sure if im doing the whole thing correctly or not. seems that between all the different guides i get mixed info on what needs to be done and what can be done. got a few things of bloatware deleted but majority still give me an error. finally figured out fastboot and booting in recovery which helped alittle. got the special offers off which is nice. think im giving up on it for awhile.
decided to use Parental Controls to hide access to all the stuff which really cleans up stuff. only downside is that it doesn't let me choose which individual apps to block and which not to which is stupid that i can either hide all my apps or show them all. so i still have some items i wont be able to hide. i just put them all into 1 folder. might try a different app for parental controls and see if it lets me really clean stuff up. dont be as good as rooting and physically deleting the stuff but at least i dont have useless tabs like Books, Newstand, Kindle, Shop, Video, Music, Audible and crap like that and i dont have a bunch of useless icons ill never use.

You could always install a different launcher like Nova and hide apps through it.
Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Related

Not sure what I want - but I know what's driving me nuts!

I've got a rooted SGS4G. I still have the stock ROM since I run the phone as a PDA.
I got rid of the social and entertainment apps, and rooting was the only way.
Now Google maps is driving me crazy. I just want the coordinates, I live in this town so I know what's around and will not use an entertainment guide, want no part of Latitude. The stupid app just updates everything and I can't move it to the card or get rid of the extras. If I freeze it, Weatherbug Elite isn't happy. It updated yesterday, I undid the update with Titanium, and it updated itself again today.
I just might want a map sometime, so I don't want to delete it.
Anything suggestions about getting control over this stuff?
you realize that places, navigation, latitude are all a part of google maps. if you dont use it, dont put it on your homescreen and you should be good. let maps update because its helpful. use launcher pro or an app that hides apps and hide the app from your app drawer and you're fine.
dont try to mess with it because it is an integral part of the phone...
im not sure if that helps; im not 100% sure what youre trying to do
It doesn't. I don't need the maps - just the coordinates for astronomy and weather.
If I want a map, I'll download from mapquest on the computer and turn it into a pdf. Or use the printed page. I prefer print maps, I don't need a map to navigate.
If I can tell MS to get lost even though they say they own the latest OSs, then I should be able to tell Google the same. I dislike assumption.
I need a hosts file on the phone.
You could be nicer about it so good luck with what you're trying to do. I don't think it can be done to be honest. whiskey or acid may help you out
Sent from my SGH-T959V using xda premium
Backup with titanium, delete with titanium, restore when needed with titanium.
Sent from my SGH-T959V using Tapatalk
I've been doing that. I have a question about TI backup. I told it to delete the Kindle App, and using manage apps on the phone, Kindle is still listed. Did TI actually remove it?
I can't use Kindle as a reader since it's only linked to Amazon's bookstore. I like Manybooks and Gutenberg project and you can't read them on either the Kindle or Nook apps. It's funny that I could read any file on the Nook Wifi I had.
The phone is rooted and unlocked. I use it mostly as a PDA.
I liked the Palm platform and now enjoying Linux. Ubuntu doesn't assume anything. Mine came with Open Office, but if I'd rather use Libre Office, I can delete Open and install Libre.
The carriers, Samsung, and Google are assuming too much in some cases. There's quite a few that would love plain vanilla Android.
I think you see kindle app after uninstalling because you didn't get rid of correspondent .odex files. Until you do, you're going to see a link to kindle on your app drawer.
Sent from my SGS4G using xda forum app
Thanks for that info. I am not familiar with Android extensions.
There's a couple of apps that will allow you to move stuff to the card. I have App2SD and am not impressed. I can understand some of the built in programs not being moved, but I have a financial app that I bought that won't let me move it.
Do any of the other move to sd card apps work any better?
Since I'm rooted, can I use a firewall to stop the updates? I was looking at Droidwall, but I'm not sure about IP tables.
I read in another section about low memory, I've done most of that, and there's still high usage from something.

How to detach an app from the Play Store

Right, I'm a PowerAMP pro user, but with a pretty old phone. The latest app is working but it's slow and sometimes lags. The poweramp site also offers the old 1.4 version which works right for me. Now, all is fine and dandy but I;m a bit annoyed by the app always showing up there to be updated. So I searched for a method to detach the app from the market and learnt that the bug has been solved long ago and apps can't be detached. So I tried changing the app's signature, of course with no luck, my android dev skills being close to absolute zero.
So I ask you, is there any way to do this? I am not pirating the app, so don't worry
I'm also trying to convince the developer to make an unsigned version of the app specifically for old timers like me, but with no success until now..
Just use LBE Privacy guard and freeze internet connection permission for this particular app..
So it will not connect to net and not telling you that new version is available..
we all should be polite enough to press thanks for anyone who helped US.
andrei1015 said:
Right, I'm a PowerAMP pro user, but with a pretty old phone. The latest app is working but it's slow and sometimes lags. The poweramp site also offers the old 1.4 version which works right for me. Now, all is fine and dandy but I;m a bit annoyed by the app always showing up there to be updated. So I searched for a method to detach the app from the market and learnt that the bug has been solved long ago and apps can't be detached. So I tried changing the app's signature, of course with no luck, my android dev skills being close to absolute zero.
So I ask you, is there any way to do this? I am not pirating the app, so don't worry
I'm also trying to convince the developer to make an unsigned version of the app specifically for old timers like me, but with no success until now..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it doesnt need to connect to the internet for anything else you could use droidwall to block it from accessing the playstore
If your rooted you could use blackmart to download the app and never have to update it
Or see the updates notifications saying there's an update
Sent from my MB865 using XDA Premium HD app
andrei1015 said:
Right, I'm a PowerAMP pro user, but with a pretty old phone. The latest app is working but it's slow and sometimes lags. The poweramp site also offers the old 1.4 version which works right for me. Now, all is fine and dandy but I;m a bit annoyed by the app always showing up there to be updated. So I searched for a method to detach the app from the market and learnt that the bug has been solved long ago and apps can't be detached. So I tried changing the app's signature, of course with no luck, my android dev skills being close to absolute zero.
So I ask you, is there any way to do this? I am not pirating the app, so don't worry
I'm also trying to convince the developer to make an unsigned version of the app specifically for old timers like me, but with no success until now..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know Titanium Backup can detach apps, though I am not sure if it is available in the free version. However, I do recommend the paid version of Titanium Backup anyway.
universeman said:
I know Titanium Backup can detach apps, though I am not sure if it is available in the free version. However, I do recommend the paid version of Titanium Backup anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have never been able to make that function actually work and I've tried with several apps that I don't want updates for.
Sent from my M886 using Tapatalk 2
On a related note, is there a way to remove apps from the "My Apps"list? It is really annoying to have to scroll through a list of apps containing tons of apps that you may have tried for a while and then uninstalled when you need to reinstall something. And why is the "My Apps" list in random order and not alphabetical?
"Dark is the night, I'm just a lonesome ol' shootin' star."
Sent from my Paranoid Android JB'd Infuse 4G using Tapatalk 2
lunarlandr said:
On a related note, is there a way to remove apps from the "My Apps"list? It is really annoying to have to scroll through a list of apps containing tons of apps that you may have tried for a while and then uninstalled when you need to reinstall something. And why is the "My Apps" list in random order and not alphabetical?
"Dark is the night, I'm just a lonesome ol' shootin' star."
Sent from my Paranoid Android JB'd Infuse 4G using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as I know (and after some quick Googling), there is no way to remove any apps from the giant "My Apps" list. However, I use the Appbrain android market replacement, and it lets you customize your lists and sort them better. You can remove devices from view though.
universeman said:
As far as I know (and after some quick Googling), there is no way to remove any apps from the giant "My Apps" list. However, I use the Appbrain android market replacement, and it lets you customize your lists and sort them better. You can remove devices from view though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, I will definitely look into that and continue to research the issue as well. If I find any other solutions, I won't hesitate to post an update.
"Dark is the night, I'm just a lonesome ol' shootin' star."
Sent from my Paranoid Android JB'd Infuse 4G using Tapatalk 2

Root Without Unlocking Bootloader

Hello All
How long does it usually take for root Without Unlocking the Bootloader to come out?
This is the only reason I have not purchased this phone yet.
So frustrated there will be no decent normal sized Nexus 6 and the Z3 loses camera features when unlocked ?
No ETA pls
Let's wait
funkyblue04 said:
Hello All
How long does it usually take for root Without Unlocking the Bootloader to come out?
This is the only reason I have not purchased this phone yet.
So frustrated there will be no decent normal sized Nexus 6 and the Z3 loses camera features when unlocked ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no "usual" number. Some phones got root before they were even out officially. Some took a few days. Some took over a month. And some end up retired without a safe root option.
First rule of xda: don't ask for eta
I know that. Just another frustration with android. We need more Nexus phones!
funkyblue04 said:
I know that. Just another frustration with android. We need more Nexus phones!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never thought I could use this phone without root but it turns out I'm wrong. Not really seeing any need for it at the present moment
I like to be about to restore all my data and apps with Titanium Backup. So much easier.
wolf0491 said:
I have nothing but force closes when restoring with titanium unless the ROM is very similar anyway. Like I was using AOSP on my Z before so I just came in fresh. Less issues down the road
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've never had an issue switching ROM's being careful to avoid system apps and only restoring the call logs and SMS database, as well as non-system apps.
Everyone is different ☺ I also do nightly backups and sync with Dropbox.
Shudder123 said:
I never thought I could use this phone without root but it turns out I'm wrong. Not really seeing any need for it at the present moment
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Never thought of using adblockers like AdAway, preventing a total waste of mobile data for loading unwanted ads which easily consume ten times the data needed ?
Never thought of kicking out bloatware also wasting your ressources ?
Would love to see root but for now I can manage quite fine without it... There is less bloatware then with certain other brands and you can uninstall or disable quite a bit.
The few things I WOULD like:
* Completely remove unused system apps
* Change LCD Density (it's all soooo big now)
* Full SDCard read/write access for all apps. (I love quickpic as a gallery, but because I save my pics/vids to sdcard it can not remove anything now)
* Titanium backup. Have never ever had issues with this (only user apps+data for me most of the time) and that's with switching between different roms, brands, aosp/stock, etc... Never failed me
Chefproll said:
Never thought of using adblockers like AdAway, preventing a total waste of mobile data for loading unwanted ads which easily consume ten times the data needed ?
Never thought of kicking out bloatware also wasting your ressources ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ABP doesn't require root and all of the bloat apps can be uninstalled or disabled / blocked using package manager.
cschmitt said:
ABP doesn't require root and all of the bloat apps can be uninstalled or disabled / blocked using package manager.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not to mention Xposed and everything it offers.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using xda app-developers app
cschmitt said:
ABP doesn't require root and all of the bloat apps can be uninstalled or disabled / blocked using package manager.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ABP (please call it "Adblock Plus" so every readers knows what's meant) does not require root, but it's not too capable running under Android. It does a brilliant job with FireFox and Windows, but the Android implementation only captures a fracture of annoying ads. And: No plugin for defining your own black lists under Android.
AdAway additionally removes annoying ads from a wealth of apps. Just doesn't work without root.
Ok, I can hear you: "If everybody uses that means, app developers won't get paid."
Yes, that's correct.
But:
a) If I really like an app, I'll buy it. Example: Poweramp. NO ads, no annoyance. It just stops working after some time. I regard that as ok. I do NOT like apps getting on my nerves all the time.
My formula is simple: Annoying ads = deinstall, no purchase.
b) A majority of free app developers uses that "evil" ads, appearing at places previously occupied by regular buttons - so you tap on them although you just don't want to.
If that bad behavior gets to a stop, I'll think about disabling AdAway again. Fair play - but on BOTH sides.

Play Store and FE:Heroes "incompatibility"

So this is the first time I've witness a problem like this, where I want to download an app (Fire Emblem: Heroes), but the Play Store does not show it on my phone! When I search it on my computer it says it's not compatible with my devices. I figured it was due to root, so I unrooted a device that I soft rooted and it worked. I can now play on that device. However, my main device, my phone, is much more deeply rooted. So, is there a documented issue with apps not appearing on the play store due to root and is there any way to circumvent this? I want to avoid downloading apks from third party websites preferably, but the app itself has root detection on it as well once you DO install it! But basically, I don't want to miss out on a potentially good app because of some silly root check. If I don't see it I may never know about it!
Same problem here. So you are you sure that before the unroot the game wasn't working on your other phone? I never heard of apps not appearing in store due to root, usually you can download the app and then the ban happen as soon as you run it.
I'm on Galaxy S7 rooted android 6 tried on Nougat too but no luck. Also tried on Galaxy S4 and also i saw in the compatibily list also my old Lg G2 is not compatible, both are rooted too. I remember i was able to pre register too so now i'm pretty mad i can't play it since i'm a fan of the series.
Yeah, I'm sure. At first I was super confused. Then I tried using someone else's phone, and it not only showed up, but it showed an advertisement for the game on the front page! As soon as I unrooted my device, the app showed up on the front page of the play store and was searchable as well. Now when I search for the game on my computer it says "Some devices not compatible with this game" and it only shows my rooted phone as not being compatible. I agree with you that this is pretty bizarre. I didn't know Google Play went through that kind of effort detecting root, especially since they have apps that are root only. So the question now is, how do you hide root from Google Play?
How do you unroot your phone? I used the option on supersu to unroot but still the game says is not compatible.
You could try using Magisk to hide root.
Pwnycorn said:
You could try using Magisk to hide root.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried Magisk but still no luck.Maybe there are some others remainings files on my phone that are detected or maybe i simply did something wrong i don't know.
I guess that's it, i'm not going to remove my root, really Nintendo surprise even on mobile with their retarded politics, i would have probably spended some money on the game only to support it like i did with other games i liked.
I removed root AND xposed. Maybe if you have xposed it still detects it. My unroot method was just using the superSU removal option. But like I said, my root was pretty light, I just rooted to uninstall a few stock verizon apps. If you have a rom with root embedded in it, you might not be able to unroot without reinstalling a new ROM. I understand Nintendo wanting to block rooted users since rooting is how you get hacks for your paid apps. However, they're isolating a pretty large base of players by doing that and it's probably not a good business decision. They're losing out more on the majority of people that don't risk installing said hacks on their phone. Those kind of hacks don't even break the game either, which makes it even more asinine. It would just be some guy ruining the game for himself by removing the limitation of orbs or experience.
P.S. It is a pretty good game and I'm fully enjoying myself with it. I might recommend getting a cheap $150 tablet to play it if you can't unroot.

Request sticky for package disabler pro safe to remove apps

Maybe have a couple reserved replies for different carriers?
i just did disable bloatware, i have no issues so far
unitz0mbie said:
i just did disable bloatware, i have no issues so far
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what we all want to do. Which carrier are you on and what did you disable that allows you to have no issues?
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
burrzoo said:
That's what we all want to do. Which carrier are you on and what did you disable that allows you to have no issues?
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
att variant with cricket sim, i just did disable all bloatware option in the app itself and i have no issues
Rather than a bunch of XML files from people that think it works FOR THEM, we need one big list of the packages WITH EXPLANATIONS as to what exactly they do, and any dependencies they may have that could break other stuff. Without that its all a waste of time. I've seen several threads like this now but not one was of any use at all because its just people posting an xml saying 'look at me i disabled 94 packages", which means nothing to anyone else who might need some of the stuff they disabled, or might not even have some of the stuff they disabled if its carrier specific.
I have no issue going down the list on my phone one at a time to see if it needs disabling, the problem is for a lot of them, I have no clue what they do, and googling them using the link form within the app didnt help at all. I am not going to disable something unless i know exactly what it does, I don't want to find out in 3 months time that something isnt working and spend forever trying to figure out why, at least if i know what each disabled thing does then i will remember that i had turned it off, i can refer back to the notes on what each one does and turn that one back on.
unitz0mbie said:
i just did disable bloatware, i have no issues so far
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Held my breath and did the same....All is well on att variant.
paniro187 said:
Maybe have a couple reserved replies for different carriers?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so all this has been went over in the s7 forum multiple times if you do a Google search the info pops up everywhere. it will be the same for s8 since they are both on 7.0. Also debloat lists are different for everyone you may use something I don't...but there are plenty of safe apps to remove lists. Side note package disabler auto debloat has about 3 to 5 things you shouldn't turn off like the enterprise stuff and a couple others.
I also did disable all bloatware. However, I noticed it misses a lot of crapware on the phone. I ended up disabling another 30 or so myself. I'm sure I missed some and when I ha e time I will continue. I don't disable anything without knowing exactly what it is so it's very slow work
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Tigerhoods said:
so all this has been went over in the s7 forum multiple times if you do a Google search the info pops up everywhere. it will be the same for s8 since they are both on 7.0. Also debloat lists are different for everyone you may use something I don't...but there are plenty of safe apps to remove lists. Side note package disabler auto debloat has about 3 to 5 things you shouldn't turn off like the enterprise stuff and a couple others.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Different phone. So excuse me for not expecting there to be some apps added or deleted. That might be needed or may not be. So kindly get fu-cked
djxn40 said:
I also did disable all bloatware. However, I noticed it misses a lot of crapware on the phone. I ended up disabling another 30 or so myself. I'm sure I missed some and when I ha e time I will continue. I don't disable anything without knowing exactly what it is so it's very slow work
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like which ones.
paniro187 said:
Like which ones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll try to make a list in the next day or so but first I used the disable all bloatware feature. Then I added about 30 more myself. As the disable all bloatware disables roughly 70 general bloatware processes/apps
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
djxn40 said:
I'll try to make a list in the next day or so but first I used the disable all bloatware feature. Then I added about 30 more myself. As the disable all bloatware disables roughly 70 general bloatware processes/apps
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you
Disabling all bloatware also disables some apps/services that some wouldn't consider, like certain camera modes.
Hello Gang! I just wanted to point out a couple of my findings from my note 7/note 5 when using package disablers..
They can do more harm then good. Especially when disabling system APKS. Over time I would notice I was losing space because some aps were just creating error logs over and over and over.. Or trying to access apps over and over that have been disabled.
The best way to do things is to go into app manager and disable the bloatware ONLY. This is facebook,NFL, verizon apps, etc. Do not disable anything system related other then the updates if you want to stop getting updates but even then I believe that might cause some issues. I have currently used package disabler to disable ONLY the "samsung update" apks and manaully disabled or removed the bloatware from verizon via app manager and have been going a week strong with 0 issues that everyone else seems to have and over 170+ apps installed and enabled.
I have done EXTENSIVE testing on this matter. You can search the note 7 and note 5 verizon forums if you wish to check my creds =D
Just be careful. We found out with the S7 that disabling certain packages actually caused an increase in battery drain. What happens is that a certain process keeps pinging another process over and over again because it's not getting an answer in return.
I would recommend disabling 5 packages at a time and see what kind of effect it has on things.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
ars0n said:
Hello Gang! I just wanted to point out a couple of my findings from my note 7/note 5 when using package disablers..
They can do more harm then good. Especially when disabling system APKS. Over time I would notice I was losing space because some aps were just creating error logs over and over and over.. Or trying to access apps over and over that have been disabled.
The best way to do things is to go into app manager and disable the bloatware ONLY. This is facebook,NFL, verizon apps, etc. Do not disable anything system related other then the updates if you want to stop getting updates but even then I believe that might cause some issues. I have currently used package disabler to disable ONLY the "samsung update" apks and manaully disabled or removed the bloatware from verizon via app manager and have been going a week strong with 0 issues that everyone else seems to have and over 170+ apps installed and enabled.
I have done EXTENSIVE testing on this matter. You can search the note 7 and note 5 verizon forums if you wish to check my creds =D
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Could you tell me where to look for error logs to see if this is happening? That sounds like it could cause major battery drain.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
If you click disable all bloat ware it disable the external media package which then makes it where you cannot access your sd card
You cant jus blindly disabled the stuff that package disabler has classed as bloatware and coloured pink because some of it is CLEARLY not bloatware and a lotof the bloatware is not even coloured pink.
What we need to know (still) is what ones are safe to disable, and what ones are NOT safe to disable. There are 4 ANT services it has coloured pink, i am not sure what they are but stuff to do with antennas doesnt sound like bloatware to me? I disabled them anyway and not noticed anything bad. I left all the knox stuff enabled because i use Secure Folder and I expect it needs all the knox stuff to work.
I have disabled things like DEX, bixby, S Health, anything to do with Edge stuff, blue light filter which i dont need, carmode stub (for some drivelink car thing that i dont have), the clock, "CNN for edge panel" which is obviously bloat but isnt even coloured pink, enterprise sim pin services, enterprise vpn servcices, epdgtestapp, anything to do with Gear VR, google play music, gooogle play movies and tv, nfc service, photos, professional audio. and the obvious bloatware like excel etc.
My battery life is good, but now im worried something might be creating logs and filling up my space!
ewokuk said:
You cant jus blindly disabled the stuff that package disabler has classed as bloatware and coloured pink because some of it is CLEARLY not bloatware and a lotof the bloatware is not even coloured pink.
What we need to know (still) is what ones are safe to disable, and what ones are NOT safe to disable. There are 4 ANT services it has coloured pink, i am not sure what they are but stuff to do with antennas doesnt sound like bloatware to me? I disabled them anyway and not noticed anything bad. I left all the knox stuff enabled because i use Secure Folder and I expect it needs all the knox stuff to work.
I have disabled things like DEX, bixby, S Health, anything to do with Edge stuff, blue light filter which i dont need, carmode stub (for some drivelink car thing that i dont have), the clock, "CNN for edge panel" which is obviously bloat but isnt even coloured pink, enterprise sim pin services, enterprise vpn servcices, epdgtestapp, anything to do with Gear VR, google play music, gooogle play movies and tv, nfc service, photos, professional audio. and the obvious bloatware like excel etc.
My battery life is good, but now im worried something might be creating logs and filling up my space!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I disabled all things that said att at this point.
ars0n said:
Hello Gang! I just wanted to point out a couple of my findings from my note 7/note 5 when using package disablers..
They can do more harm then good. Especially when disabling system APKS. Over time I would notice I was losing space because some aps were just creating error logs over and over and over.. Or trying to access apps over and over that have been disabled.
The best way to do things is to go into app manager and disable the bloatware ONLY. This is facebook,NFL, verizon apps, etc. Do not disable anything system related other then the updates if you want to stop getting updates but even then I believe that might cause some issues. I have currently used package disabler to disable ONLY the "samsung update" apks and manaully disabled or removed the bloatware from verizon via app manager and have been going a week strong with 0 issues that everyone else seems to have and over 170+ apps installed and enabled.
I have done EXTENSIVE testing on this matter. You can search the note 7 and note 5 verizon forums if you wish to check my creds =D
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is dead on. Unless you know exactly what dependancies the app is that you are using package disabler depends on, you are going to do a lot more harm than good. This phone sleeps apps not used after a few days and the rest you need to be very careful with killing, because the phone could check for the app or an app that depends on it could check over and over and over, causing slowdowns, powerloss etc.

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