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I'm hoping to get a smartphone (either a Moto-G or Nexus 5) without having to pay for a data plan. Yes, I know there are dozens of topics asking whether or not this can be done; I've read everyone--that's why I'm making this new thread.
There are a lot of different things I see stated on ways to get around AT&T automatic application of expensive data-plans when they detect that you're using a smartphone. Some people have said that all you have to do is turn off 3G Data Use from the menu of the new phone BEFORE inserting a new SIM card, and then insert the old dumphone sim card and everything will work. Some people make vague allusions to changing the IMIE--to which some people claim that's illegal, and others claim AT&T or random clerks at Radio Shack will do this for you upon request. Still others claim that all you need to do is install a "data blocker" program onto the smartphone before switching SIM cards, and it will do the trick.
The basic goal seems to be "hiding" the IMEI number from AT&T.
So, my question: how does AT&T recognize the IMEI number? Will they see it only if the phone is active on their 3G/4G/LTE networks? Or do they see it "through" the normal dumbphone calling networks?
My apologies if this is a stupid question. I really don't know anything about phones are anything about non-PC electronics or software in general. Basically, I'd like a smartphone but refuse to pay an exhorbitant monthly fee for a feature I'd never use (wifi is everywhere I go), and am not in a position where I can switch carriers, and it's like I'm part of a(n evidently sizable) demographic that no one wants to market to.
If times haven't changed too much from when I tried the same thing 2 years ago, you should just be able to request that all data on your line be blocked. I would try calling them before you switch the SIM to the smartphone and ask for all data to be disabled to your line, then swap the SIM. I would also leave the data turned off on the smartphone for good measure. This is basically how I got around your same issue with AT&T, and it doesn't have to necessarily come down to illegally changing the IMEI or "hiding" the IMEI from the carrier. Eventually they'll cross-check your device and figure out it's a smartphone and add your data. But to my knowledge, the adding of the data is all automatically done by computers; so if the system sees that all data is disabled for you, it shouldn't attempt to add anything.
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If a VoLTE capable phone has the mbn files updated to use those of an AT&T white listed phone what would need to happen to get the phone active on AT&T's network?
healerdan said:
If a VoLTE capable phone has the mbn files updated to use those of an AT&T white listed phone what would need to happen to get the phone active on AT&T's network?
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The same as any other device, SIM/carrier unlock the device then activate the device on AT&T using an AT&T SIM.
I know what white list means but I don't understand what that has to do with what you are asking.
Also, just because the device is VoLTE capable, that does not necessarily mean you will be able to use the VoLTE feature on the AT&T network, even if you successfully activate the device on AT&T. VoLTE is controlled and regulated by the carrier, you will not be able to use VoLTE unless AT&T offers VoLTE support for your specific device, if they do not offer VoLTE support for your specific model number, you will not be able to use VoLTE on the AT&T network.
OP, it would help to know which model of phone.
My unlocked N10+ has no issues on AT&T.
Works identically to my AT&T N10+ variant.
Try talking to AT&T advanced technical support.
Droidriven said:
The same as any other device, SIM/carrier unlock the device then activate the device on AT&T using an AT&T SIM.
I know what white list means but I don't understand what that has to do with what you are asking.
Also, just because the device is VoLTE capable, that does not necessarily mean you will be able to use the VoLTE feature on the AT&T network, even if you successfully activate the device on AT&T. VoLTE is controlled and regulated by the carrier, you will not be able to use VoLTE unless AT&T offers VoLTE support for your specific device, if they do not offer VoLTE support for your specific model number, you will not be able to use VoLTE on the AT&T network.
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Right. So VoLTE is a software program which must be present in the firmware of the phone. When AT&T developed their whitelist, they charged manufacturers to "certify" their VoLTE software on the AT&T network. The manufacturer of my phone (ASUS) along with many other manufacturers chose not to pay AT&T for the privilege of AT&T's customers continuing to use their (sometimes) relatively new devices (mine is barely two years old now, and I purchased it outright with the intention of using it for 5-6 years.)
So the software which runs VoLTE from my phone can be altered to work like one of AT&T's 'whitelisted' phones. This is discussed in this guide (as well as others) in which the final few steps has us replace the VoLTE programming with that of a phone from a different manufacturer.
My question is, supposing I can comfortably flash the .mbn file from a phone on AT&T's whitelist AND it works, what other information does AT&T have on my phone which might prevent my phone from connecting to their network? I believe that when I spoke to them and activated my IMEI they asked what phone I had. I think that based on the model information which I told them, it has been disabled*. If I were to tell them "oh, yeah, it's actually a Pixel 4" would there be any other checks which I'd have to spoof/bypass to continue using my phone?
*Also, I'm sure that my phone tried to make a 3g call which their system could have flagged. I'm working to reprogram my phone to only operate with VoLTE, so when I reactivate my phone that flag wouldn't reappear.
blackhawk said:
OP, it would help to know which model of phone.
My unlocked N10+ has no issues on AT&T.
Works identically to my AT&T N10+ variant.
Try talking to AT&T advanced technical support.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't feel that my specific model was relevant and figured there's plenty of others wondering a similar thing as AT&T's actions are causing many perfectly good phones to go to disuse. I wanted this thread to generally discuss VoLTE programming and what, if any, recourse a power user might have to program their own non-whitelisted phone to conform with AT&T's network demands.
As you asked, and I would certainly appreciate any personalized assistance, I am using an ASUS ROG ii. The phone is VoLTE capable, and is functional on T-mobile's network, but ASUS apparently didn't want to pay AT&T to "certify" the phone on AT&T's network. I know no stock firmware coming from ASUS will allow me to connect to AT&T's network, but a procedure described in this guide ends with us flashing the .mbn file of a different phone onto ours to utilize "known working" VoLTE software.
I'm sure finding an .mbn that matches both the ROG ii's hardware AND is compatible with AT&T's network isn't going to be a breeze, but assuming that's possible - what other hurdles might I face with AT&T? If I call them to have my phone activated and tell them it's a pixel 4 what happens if I've programmed my phone to communicate on their network as though it were a pixel 4?
I don't think AT&T really cares that much as they're making a killing on the service.
The worst they will do unless it's illegal or specified in writing is to not support the device as far as troubleshooting it. Oddly some techs there will go out of their way sometimes to help you find out of box solutions.
Once you update it you may have to ask them to do a network reset on their end.
I always try to verify a device I'm getting is 100% compatible with their network, if not I return it.
That's one of the first shake down tests I do with a new phone.
This is why
healerdan said:
I didn't feel that my specific model was relevant and figured there's plenty of others wondering a similar thing as AT&T's actions are causing many perfectly good phones to go to disuse. I wanted this thread to generally discuss VoLTE programming and what, if any, recourse a power user might have to program their own non-whitelisted phone to conform with AT&T's network demands.
As you asked, and I would certainly appreciate any personalized assistance, I am using an ASUS ROG ii. The phone is VoLTE capable, and is functional on T-mobile's network, but ASUS apparently didn't want to pay AT&T to "certify" the phone on AT&T's network. I know no stock firmware coming from ASUS will allow me to connect to AT&T's network, but a procedure described in this guide ends with us flashing the .mbn file of a different phone onto ours to utilize "known working" VoLTE software.
I'm sure finding an .mbn that matches both the ROG ii's hardware AND is compatible with AT&T's network isn't going to be a breeze, but assuming that's possible - what other hurdles might I face with AT&T? If I call them to have my phone activated and tell them it's a pixel 4 what happens if I've programmed my phone to communicate on their network as though it were a pixel 4?
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No, telling them you have a different phone isn't going to work. Your phone actually identifies itself to the network based upon a combination of hardware and software information that the network detects or receives from the device remotely, their job on the other end is to set their network up to provide service to the identified device and to identify the device and the service as yours. If you tell them that you have a Pixel 4 and they configure the network on their end to make VoLTE work with Pixel 4 then VoLTE more than likely will not work on your device because the system thinks you have Pixel 4 hardware and software when you actually don't. That is like asking a car parts store for a starter for a Ford engine when you actually need a starter for a Nissan engine, they'll give you what you ask for but it doesn't mean the Ford starter will actually work on the Nissan engine.
Trying to trick them into enabling VoLTE probably won't work, if their system does not offer VoLTE support for your hardware itself, you will not be able to use VoLTE.
It basically boils down to this, control of whether VoLTE will work for you or not is completely in their hands, not yours, it is all done from their end, there isn't really anything you can do from your end.
If you want to use VoLTE on their network, then you need to get a device that is compatible with their VoLTE service and is actually supported by their network.
Even if you find a shortcut to make VoLTE work, somehow, someway, you will not be satisfied with the end result.
Droidriven said:
If you tell them that you have a Pixel 4 and they configure the network on their end to make VoLTE work with Pixel 4 then VoLTE more than likely will not work on your device because the system thinks you have Pixel 4 hardware and software when you actually don't.
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I think you are missing the part where I am using (in this example) programming and hardware from a pixel 4. this is only partly a hardware problem, but there's not as wide an array of different hardware types as you seem to think. a cursory search shows my device utilizes a snapdragon 855, and an X50 modem. The Oneplus 6T, which is permitted on AT&T's network utilizes the exact same hardware. The difference between the two phones is that Oneplus was ready to pay AT&T to check their software engineer's work.
Droidriven said:
That is like asking a car parts store for a starter for a Ford engine when you actually need a starter for a Nissan engine, they'll give you what you ask for but it doesn't mean the Ford starter will actually work on the Nissan engine.
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If you want a car analogy it would be more like... I purchased an after market starter which has the same bolt& spindle pattern, and electrical configuration BUT when I connected everything ford's on-board diagnostics refused to start using a non-ford component. In this scenario, I have already done the starter installation and software patch, and know that these two things are operating as they should. I am now reaching out to the modder's forum to see if anyone knows of any other checks the OBD does to verify the starter which I should take into account while designing my patch before I turn on my car.
Droidriven said:
Trying to trick them into enabling VoLTE probably won't work, if their system does not offer VoLTE support for your hardware itself, you will not be able to use VoLTE.
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See first response - the communications hardware is the same between my phone and other phones on their whitelist.
Droidriven said:
It basically boils down to this, control of whether VoLTE will work for you or not is completely in their hands, not yours, it is all done from their end, there isn't really anything you can do from your end.
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Click to collapse
VoLTE is just like any other communications protocol, it requires both devices to be able to communicate, and is a matter of both software and hardware. The thing that is lacking in my case is software, not hardware. and as the guide which I linked previously shows the software can be altered.
Droidriven said:
Your phone actually identifies itself to the network based upon a combination of hardware and software information that the network detects or receives from the device remotely, their job on the other end is to set their network up to provide service to the identified device and to identify the device and the service as yours.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This seems to be getting at what I'm actually asking. I'm trying to see what other items are involved in the "handshake" between my device and the network which might cause a flag. do you know what the "combination of hardware and software information" which the carrier's network uses to identify my phone would be, specifically?
healerdan said:
I think you are missing the part where I am using (in this example) programming and hardware from a pixel 4. this is only partly a hardware problem, but there's not as wide an array of different hardware types as you seem to think. a cursory search shows my device utilizes a snapdragon 855, and an X50 modem. The Oneplus 6T, which is permitted on AT&T's network utilizes the exact same hardware. The difference between the two phones is that Oneplus was ready to pay AT&T to check their software engineer's work.
If you want a car analogy it would be more like... I purchased an after market starter which has the same bolt& spindle pattern, and electrical configuration BUT when I connected everything ford's on-board diagnostics refused to start using a non-ford component. In this scenario, I have already done the starter installation and software patch, and know that these two things are operating as they should. I am now reaching out to the modder's forum to see if anyone knows of any other checks the OBD does to verify the starter which I should take into account while designing my patch before I turn on my car.
See first response - the communications hardware is the same between my phone and other phones on their whitelist.
VoLTE is just like any other communications protocol, it requires both devices to be able to communicate, and is a matter of both software and hardware. The thing that is lacking in my case is software, not hardware. and as the guide which I linked previously shows the software can be altered.
This seems to be getting at what I'm actually asking. I'm trying to see what other items are involved in the "handshake" between my device and the network which might cause a flag. do you know what the "combination of hardware and software information" which the carrier's network uses to identify my phone would be, specifically?
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Actually, my car analogy was accurate, I don't think I explained why as well as I could have. The hardware/software differences that I'm referring to equate to the differing parts having the same purpose and same function but having differening bolt patterns the same as a Ford/Nissan starter sharing the same purpose and function but have differing bolt patterns.
Yes, another device might share the same hardware components and be approved but that doesn't necessarily mean that there is cross compatibility because the two devices have other differences that come into play.
When I say "if they support your hardware", I am not referring to ONLY the radio hardware, I mean the whole device being different hardware, which means differences in kernel also because kernel and hardware are very closely related which comes into play because these components also play a part in identifying the device remotely. Using a kernel from another device won't work either because the "other" hardware differences between the devices would cause the kernel from another device to brick your device.
You can modify software and you can emulate software but emulation at the hardware level isn't really feasible for android.
Some of the "handshakes" that identify your device come from things that if you modify them to make the network see your device as a different device, it may cause your device to lose functionality, other parts are illegal in certain places so they can't be discussed here.
It is such a rabbit hole that it is just all around more sensible to just use a device that is compatible without modifying. If you want to use VoLTE on AT&T, you'll have more success by playing their game because they hold the cards.
Why AT&T are shutting down all not AT&T phones on their Network | AT&T Community Forums
Why AT&T are shutting down all not AT&T phones on their Network?. Even if phones are working perfectly on AT&T network now and are 4G with VoLTE, Video Calling and WiFi calling capabil...
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List of supported unlocked phones and services available:
I have a Canadian model Galaxy S22 Ultra (Snapdragon) and have an issue with how Samsung handles dual SIM set-up.
Here's my screen under Settings - SIM Card Manager.
https://imgur.com/a/1TjegB4
I want the Bell SIM (physical SIM) to handle most data-intensive tasks, but the Shaw one (eSIM) to handle SMS/MMS/RCS Messaging. It seems that if I set Bell as my Primary SIM, then the Shaw one won't allow MMS or RCS Messaging. It tells me to switch my primary SIM to Shaw if I want to do that.
It's been a while since I had a dual SIM Android phone but I don't recall having similar issues in the past. I don't think it's an APN thing either as these features work if only one SIM is available.
Any ideas? Apparently non-North American units have a more typical SIM Card Manager settings app that lets you specify which SIM is for data and which is for calls.
Maybe a regional Settings difference......?
My Note20 ultra (snapdragon) has more options in this regard:
Any idea if it's possible to get the SIM Card Manager APK from your phone? I doubt it would work but it's worth a try.
Someone in the Reddit thread I made about this mentioned it was indeed a North American thing.
Try either of these - see if it works......
(couldn't find a "SIM card manager".apk file)
Darn. The SIM Toolkit app won't install as it says the Package is invalid,and the SIMMobilityKit one just wouldn't install.
If someone with an S22 Ultra Snapdragon unit outside of North America could try, maybe that'll work
You could try flashing a non-North American stock Snapdragon ROM (e.g. China/ Thailand/ Korea)?
Anyone with a non-North American Snapdragon Galaxy S22 able to extract the SIM Manager app? Don't feel comfortable flashing a foreign ROM in case I brick ny phone or trip Knox
Looks like this is a more complex issue than what I thought. It's not a specific APK that's accessed when accessing the SIM Card Manager. Pulling a logcat reveals a process called "NU.SimCardManagerUtils"
Why Samsung cripples North American phones by limiting functionality of Dual SIM mode is beyond me (well OK, it's likely the carriers, but still.....)
Devhux said:
Anyone with a non-North American Snapdragon Galaxy S22 able to extract the SIM Manager app? Don't feel comfortable flashing a foreign ROM in case I brick ny phone or trip Knox
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FWIW there's pretty much no chance of tripping knox by flashing a signed fw and not unlocking the bootloader (not like you can anyways)
I am also curious at this and probably won't get to try flashing until my 2nd S22U arrives
I believe for some carriers Talk/Text/Data have to be on the same SIM card to make RCS work.
peteve said:
I believe for some carriers Talk/Text/Data have to be on the same SIM card to make RCS work.
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I would happily disable RCS to get better control over SIM card usage, but I don't think that's the case. RCS is supposed to be network agnostic, well except maybe AT&T where they just flat out hijack RCS.
I really truly wonder why anyone would still use that ****ty carrier tbh.
Yeah,this goes beyond RCS. Even downloading MMS messages from the non-Primary SIM won't work,and I've had no issues on iPhones or other Android devices. Even someone in my original Reddit post commented they can do it with an International phone (admittedly a Note 20, but it appears Samsung has been crippling the North American phones ever since they finally gave us eSIM.
Sadly I'm not a developer, so even if I flashed my phone with a ROM from a different region and compared logcat output from opening the same screen, I likely wouldn't understand what the differences are or what it's actually asking.
The s22 is different to my prior s21 in this way too. Before you could independently choose which sim did voice, data and SMS. Now it's one sim or the other for all three.
Wait, really? Were both from the same region?
If so, sounds like we'll have to try pressuring Samsung to put it back (however feeble that might be).
Devhux said:
Wait, really? Were both from the same region?
If so, sounds like we'll have to try pressuring Samsung to put it back (however feeble that might be).
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I actually think it's simpler the new way. Otherwise I had to toggle three items every time I switched sim.
Devhux said:
Darn. The SIM Toolkit app won't install as it says the Package is invalid,and the SIMMobilityKit one just wouldn't install.
If someone with an S22 Ultra Snapdragon unit outside of North America could try, maybe that'll work
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Did you have any luck with solving this?
dtg7 said:
Did you have any luck with solving this?
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Sadly no.
I am convinced Samsung is doing this in the Americas due to some backdoor deals with the carriers. The carriers do not want us to be able to use different sims for different things. They want you to have to purchase one expensive plan from them. This is the most compelling thing pushing me back towards the Pixel 6 Pro. Glad I still have it.
To overcome the MMS on the non-primary sim, I had to install a third-party messaging app. Pulsesms. I would rather use google messages.
For the phone calls, I just installed google dialer which lets you select the primary calling account (sim).
I have half a mind to file a complaint with my state's consumer protection board. It doesn't seem right that they can place these kinds of restrictions on US handsets, even if you buy it unlocked.
drfundy said:
I am convinced Samsung is doing this in the Americas due to some backdoor deals with the carriers. The carriers do not want us to be able to use different sims for different things. They want you to have to purchase one expensive plan from them. This is the most compelling thing pushing me back towards the Pixel 6 Pro. Glad I still have it.
To overcome the MMS on the non-primary sim, I had to install a third-party messaging app. Pulsesms. I would rather use google messages.
For the phone calls, I just installed google dialer which lets you select the primary calling account (sim).
I have half a mind to file a complaint with my state's consumer protection board. It doesn't seem right that they can place these kinds of restrictions on US handsets, even if you buy it unlocked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How do you mean "overcome mms in non primary via third party"? The problem is the non primary can't be used for data, and mms requires data.
The main problem here is use of data. Default sim for calling and texting can be set per contact thru the Samsung phone app. But data can't be switched to non primary. That's what there's no workaround for right now.
dtg7 said:
How do you mean "overcome mms in non primary via third party"? The problem is the non primary can't be used for data, and mms requires data.
The main problem here is use of data. Default sim for calling and texting can be set per contact thru the Samsung phone app. But data can't be switched to non primary. That's what there's no workaround for right now.
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What I am saying is, that when I use pulsesms as my SMS app, it is able to send MMS using either number. I don't know how it does it, but it does.
With the google phone app, you can pick a sim card as the default for all contacts.
Can i have two esim in pixel 7 pro?
Any disadvantage in having esim
Yes you can have two eSIM active together within same time.
disadvantage would be if you need to move the sim to other phone. As for the rest, i'd say, eSIM is better than SIM
otonieru said:
Yes you can have two eSIM active together within same time.
disadvantage would be if you need to move the sim to other phone. As for the rest, i'd say, eSIM is better than SIM
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You actually cannot have two eSIMs active at the same time. Only a few of us ever had that capability and we all appear to have had it removed at some point. Now it's a matter of waiting for Google to add the feature but I'm not holding my breath.
otonieru said:
Yes you can have two eSIM active together within same time.
disadvantage would be if you need to move the sim to other phone. As for the rest, i'd say, eSIM is better than SIM
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Thank you so much
I haven't had the best experience so far with my two Sims on my Pixel 7 Pro. Even though I have assigned certain contacts with designated calling SIMs, often times the call is still made with wrong SIM. This is annoying because this ends up giving those contacts my personal number instead of my work number. Both sims are with Verizon, so ideally both should have good service at the same time or bad service at the same time. It would make sense if one sim was with AT&T for example and had no cell service, so the phone would understandably fails over to the other sim to make the call - but I don't see that being the case here.
Hello guys. I'm awaiting my eSIM code from my phone provider shortly and I'd like to ask a question (since I'm new to modding eSIM phones) if eSIM is saved in a designated read-only chip.
Example: I'm currently in an unsupported for Google country (where they neither sell Pixels nor support 5G, only VoLTE/WiFi) and would like to flash Calyx into the phone (and also patch ModemFix to unlock 5G capabilities in my country) at some point; Will I lose my eSIM profile? It will cost to retain my number back (10 euros for a new profile). Thank you for your answers!
RemoveKebab said:
Will I lose my eSIM profile?
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What do you mean by that? Even if wiping your device removes the eSIM number (which it should), can't you just re-enter the number again? These aren't tied to devices, you should be able to use them in as many devices as you want (not simultaneously, of course).
Lada333 said:
What do you mean by that? Even if wiping your device removes the eSIM number (which it should), can't you just re-enter the number again? These aren't tied to devices, you should be able to use them in as many devices as you want (not simultaneously, of course).
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Pretty sure that it's one time code; Once you download it, it's gone. That's what I know.
Another issue is that I can't physically use my sim because it doesn't work anymore, so my option is to go with an esim or a physical card. And I already have physical card in place...
RemoveKebab said:
Pretty sure that it's one time code; Once you download it, it's gone. That's what I know.
Another issue is that I can't physically use my sim because it doesn't work anymore, so my option is to go with an esim or a physical card. And I already have physical card in place...
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Yup, you seem to be right. Not sure where I got this information from that an eSIM code can be used as many times as you want.
If you know you'll be tinkering with your device a fair bit, I'd recommend you try to use a physical SIM card. Even if there is a way to carry your once registered eSIM through ROMs, should you brick your device at some point or apply an upgrade that wipes your eSIM, you'll be SOL.
That being said, I've not carried an eSIM registration through multiple ROMs, so I'm none the wiser.
Thank you for correcting me on the reusability of eSIM codes though!
Lada333 said:
Yup, you seem to be right. Not sure where I got this information from that an eSIM code can be used as many times as you want.
If you know you'll be tinkering with your device a fair bit, I'd recommend you try to use a physical SIM card. Even if there is a way to carry your once registered eSIM through ROMs, should you brick your device at some point or apply an upgrade that wipes your eSIM, you'll be SOL.
That being said, I've not carried an eSIM registration through multiple ROMs, so I'm none the wiser.
Thank you for correcting me on the reusability of eSIM codes though!
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No problem. That being said, I can order a physical card so I can also manually enable 5G capabilities (because in order to get the 5G patch in place, I have to use a spare 5G certified device by my provider to be able to access 5G speeds, I happen to have spare phones).
And in the future, I'll be switching to eSIM because yeah; idk if it will even stay on the phone after completely wiping it. Initially I thought it's saved in some chip but whoever knows please let me know.