Related
https://www.dxomark.com/sony-xperia-xz-premium-first-sony-tested-with-our-new-protocols/
As expected, Sony's premium flagship gets an unimpressive score of 83 from DXoMark's revamped benchmarking (now including zoom, bokeh effect, artifacts, among other testing).
While i don't agree with the score per category (especially on having a low video stabilization score; seriously, Sony's 5-axis is arguably the best in video stabilization right now) but DXoMark does raise some good and valid points on what's wrong with Xperia phones. Hope Sony camera devs read the review as well so they know what to improve on (i.e. software algorithm on superior auto, noise and texture, lowlight performance, zoom in and bokeh effect).
Having said that, still one satisfied Xperia user here. The cons don't affect me that much; unless you're a person who's really nitpicking on every small detail, the Sony Xperia XZ Premium does a good job of being a solid performer in both photo and video capture.
Lawliet918 said:
https://www.dxomark.com/sony-xperia-xz-premium-first-sony-tested-with-our-new-protocols/
As expected, Sony's premium flagship gets an unimpressive score of 83 from DXoMark's revamped benchmarking (now including zoom, bokeh effect, artifacts, among other testing).
While i don't agree with the score per category (especially on having a low video stabilization score; seriously, Sony's 5-axis is arguably the best in video stabilization right now) but DXoMark does raise some good and valid points on what's wrong with Xperia phones. Hope Sony camera devs read the review as well so they know what to improve on (i.e. software algorithm on superior auto, noise and texture, lowlight performance, zoom in and bokeh effect).
Having said that, still one satisfied Xperia user here. The cons don't affect me that much; unless you're a person who's really nitpicking on every small detail, the Sony Xperia XZ Premium does a good job of being a solid performer in both photo and video capture.
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Click to collapse
Sony no paid dxomark= dxmark trolling Sony.
Apple paid Dxomark= dxomark 96 points
Glad I don't use zoom on my XZP... Or I never even used it in my life. Truth is I cant expect from camera big as fingernail to catch photos like pro digital camera. Also every model with only one main camera will fail this test. Still I am happy with xzp camera for taking pictures, even the front camera is finally good for selfies.
https://flic.kr/s/aHsm4ZdMbV
https://flic.kr/s/aHsm4ZdMbV
https://flic.kr/s/aHsm4ZdMbV
https://flic.kr/s/aHsm4XtNwH
https://flic.kr/s/aHsm2QjnKd
https://flic.kr/s/aHsm2QjnKd
https://flic.kr/s/aHsm4AWDDW
Also we should wait for xz1 review, maybe they did some update on img processing...
Sent from my G8141 using Tapatalk
smitrovic said:
Glad I don't use zoom on my XZP... Or I never even used it in my life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I'm not sure why this is even part of the test. If there is no actual optical zoom, what are they really testing? I see people zoom in on their smartphone cameras all the time and I wonder what the point is. Just crop the photo later. You get a better picture, and the "zoom" is effectively the same.
It's really sad and bit disappointing. I think most of the stuff they were saying true.
Couldn't care less. I didn't buy this phone for it's camera
Come on Sony... 83
Come on Sony'
I bought the XZ Premium because I already own Sony cameras. Sony is obviously the leader in sensor technology and by teaming up with Zeiss there should be no questions about the hardware. So... That only leaves one thing. Software! Apple uses Sony Sensors. Samsung likewise. Even Huawei. So we know their sensors are no better, it must be the software. Please Sony, get off your arrogant asses and give us something that's competitive. I know this 83 could be brought up to 93 if you can just give us a new update and a little software support.
I guess that wont happen ever, because Sony needs to save digital camera market tho. If they made this camera use all potential, they wont sell any 200-400 euro digital cameras.
Sent from my G8141 using Tapatalk
The initial purporpose of dxomark is to diminish any phone that lacks a second lens for bokeh and zoom and from the other side to favor the phones that have it. So i cannot take this test into consideration because it lacks any professionalism and puts double standards.
I know people love slating DXoMark with remarks like "Sony no paid dxomark= dxmark trolling Sony." I also know that we can't say if that is true or not but to be honest we don't even need DXoMarks score. The camera is poor compared to 2017 flagships. Just take an objective look and test for yourself. The problem on this forum is that people are so blind sighted and such massive fanboys they can't step back and go wow yeah this is awful. I spend £649 on this phone sim free and I understand a lot of people have done the same and want to back up the purchase with claims like the above.
The point of the matter though is that Sony's whole marketing for this thing was the camera and weather you look at a DXoMark score or not, it is not up to scratch . Its low light performance is miles of the competition, the dynamic range is shockingly bad compared to phone like the Pixel, Galaxy S7 or iPhone 7 all of which where released last year. Not even looking at the quality of the photos there is also many other issues such as camera distortion etc.
I just wish Sony would acknowledge these issues and say "Hey we are working on it" but they don't. What i would also like is a camera 2 API so at least we can use another camera app.
jms.flynn said:
I know people love slating DXoMark with remarks like "Sony no paid dxomark= dxmark trolling Sony." I also know that we can't say if that is true or not but to be honest we don't even need DXoMarks score. The camera is poor compared to 2017 flagships. Just take an objective look and test for yourself. The problem on this forum is that people are so blind sighted and such massive fanboys they can't step back and go wow yeah this is awful. I spend £649 on this phone sim free and I understand a lot of people have done the same and want to back up the purchase with claims like the above.
The point of the matter though is that Sony's whole marketing for this thing was the camera and weather you look at a DXoMark score or not, it is not up to scratch . Its low light performance is miles of the competition, the dynamic range is shockingly bad compared to phone like the Pixel, Galaxy S7 or iPhone 7 all of which where released last year. Not even looking at the quality of the photos there is also many other issues such as camera distortion etc.
I just wish Sony would acknowledge these issues and say "Hey we are working on it" but they don't. What i would also like is a camera 2 API so at least we can use another camera app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then go and pay 1200 pounds to get your iPhone X to shoot in auto mode, and let the people who know about photography to shoot better photos in manual mode with almost half the price.
jms.flynn said:
I know people love slating DXoMark with remarks like "Sony no paid dxomark= dxmark trolling Sony." I also know that we can't say if that is true or not but to be honest we don't even need DXoMarks score. The camera is poor compared to 2017 flagships. Just take an objective look and test for yourself. The problem on this forum is that people are so blind sighted and such massive fanboys they can't step back and go wow yeah this is awful. I spend £649 on this phone sim free and I understand a lot of people have done the same and want to back up the purchase with claims like the above.
The point of the matter though is that Sony's whole marketing for this thing was the camera and weather you look at a DXoMark score or not, it is not up to scratch . Its low light performance is miles of the competition, the dynamic range is shockingly bad compared to phone like the Pixel, Galaxy S7 or iPhone 7 all of which where released last year. Not even looking at the quality of the photos there is also many other issues such as camera distortion etc.
I just wish Sony would acknowledge these issues and say "Hey we are working on it" but they don't. What i would also like is a camera 2 API so at least we can use another camera app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can use other camera apps, just not the free versions. If you can handle a couple of euros for Camera Zoom FX you will find that the camera is not as you describe it!!! By any chance have you unlocked your bootloader? I'm sure you know that currently there is no way to backup your TA partition wich means the loss of your DRM unique key which enables camera features, and more.
I've been an xperia fan for a long time and finally Sony are releasing sw updates more frequently and this handset will get Oreo once the sony team puts it together. This will transform this handset which has great HW, as all xperia handsets
Katsigaros said:
Then go and pay 1200 pounds to get your iPhone X to shoot in auto mode, and let the people who know about photography to shoot better photos in manual mode with almost half the price.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wasn't really my point was it. You can go buy a year old S7 or LG G6 and shoot in manual mode or in auto mode and smash the Sony out of the water.
And if you want a more stock android experience buy a Moto G5 Plus and that also beats the Sony.
The reason I know is because i have them. The way the sony was sold with improved lens, better low light due to bigger pixel size and hybrid auto focus this was supposed to be a beast of a camera. Which it isn't, not even close.
---------- Post added at 02:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:05 PM ----------
WildBit said:
I've been an xperia fan for a long time and finally Sony are releasing sw updates more frequently and this handset will get Oreo once the sony team puts it together. This will transform this handset which has great HW, as all xperia handsets
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lets hope so, I am a huge Sony fan and want them to succeeded. I've had all the xperia's since the z3 compact. I just want a camera experience which is as good as the rest of the software and hardware.
This new DXO formula is idiotic... It gives adventages to dualcam phones.
whats the point of doing bokkeh test if there is actually no bokkeh...It should be a feature, it should not affect the score, because many other phones have their own features which are not measured by DXO tests.
for example. XZP has no bokkeh, but it has wider lens, which is a big advantage for me, but there are no additional point for that in the test.
Beside that, DXO tests started to be incomparable.
Look at Iphone 8 review and XZP review. I8 review is 10x more complex - it contains way more tests than XZP review.
There are also inconsistencies like:
At the first paragraph, in the "Test Summary" section they wrote, quote:
"the XZ Premium features relatively strong autofocus performance for both photography and video, as well as very good stabilization for video."
But at the end, in the "Conclusion" section they wrote, quote:
"Video performance is also competent, but marred by problems with loss of detail and mediocre stabilization."
it is really pathetic and not professional.
jms.flynn said:
I know people love slating DXoMark with remarks like "Sony no paid dxomark= dxmark trolling Sony." I also know that we can't say if that is true or not but to be honest we don't even need DXoMarks score. The camera is poor compared to 2017 flagships. Just take an objective look and test for yourself. The problem on this forum is that people are so blind sighted and such massive fanboys they can't step back and go wow yeah this is awful. I spend £649 on this phone sim free and I understand a lot of people have done the same and want to back up the purchase with claims like the above.
The point of the matter though is that Sony's whole marketing for this thing was the camera and weather you look at a DXoMark score or not, it is not up to scratch . Its low light performance is miles of the competition, the dynamic range is shockingly bad compared to phone like the Pixel, Galaxy S7 or iPhone 7 all of which where released last year. Not even looking at the quality of the photos there is also many other issues such as camera distortion etc.
I just wish Sony would acknowledge these issues and say "Hey we are working on it" but they don't. What i would also like is a camera 2 API so at least we can use another camera app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you even know what is a good photograph?
You don't like the camera quality? Seriously?
I take night photos like never before. Low light photos that are fantastic, videos in slow motion at night that are perfect.
And you compare with s7 and iPhone?
gengi said:
Do you even know what is a good photograph?
You don't like the camera quality? Seriously?
I take night photos like never before. Low light photos that are fantastic, videos in slow motion at night that are perfect.
And you compare with s7 and iPhone?
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Click to collapse
Ok, now I know you're seriously trolling. ha ha
Please show me one of your "videos in slow motion at night that are perfect".
The 960FPS is cool, if not gimmicky, but it only really works well in very very good light
jms.flynn said:
Ok, now I know you're seriously trolling. ha ha
Please show me one of your "videos in slow motion at night that are perfect".
The 960FPS is cool, if not gimmicky, but it only really works well in very very good light
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
960 fps, at night and 500 meters (at least) apart, I would say it's very good.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3HA5nmqdPh0SFFLVHpXRjBxRDA/view?usp=drivesdk
gengi said:
960 fps, at night and 500 meters (at least) apart, I would say it's very good.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3HA5nmqdPh0SFFLVHpXRjBxRDA/view?usp=drivesdk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know in certain lighting conditions it causes alot of flicker. I thought at night it would flicker but it doesnt so thats really cool. Nice video by the way.
Its like alot of people say though, as soon as Samsung or Apple do something new everyone in the world is like wow look at this. Then Sony does it and everyone is quiet about it. Our device the XZ Premium is the first to have a 4K HDR screen and is also the only device alongside the XZS and XZ1 to record at 960fps. Nobody in the world understands how cool it is to have those two features in the palm of your hand. If Samsung or Apple did it then im sure they would understand. As soon as another company besides Apple or Samsung do something cool they get criticised by their 'big bezels' which shouldnt even matter when you take into consideration the features packed into the device.
The score given for our device, I dont think its fair. If you want something fair watch a YouTube video on a comparison or review of the camera, im sure they will be more on point and accurate.
I didnt buy the phone for its camera. If someone wants to say they have an iPhone 8 with a higher score than my XZ Premium they can but I believe the scores are biased and that the rest of their scores are one-sided.
Don't want to bag Sony down but I have compared the XZ Premium(company issued to me) against the Pixel (I own), Pixel 2 (wife owns) and hands down, it is definitely inferior than the Pixels... It takes crappy low light photos with lots of noise. It also struggles with photos where the background is brighter. Again, I think Sony's problem really is software, just like with most Sony phones I owned.
However, I'm not saying that it doesn't do decent photos, it does. I think 86 is too low. Personally, I'd rate it around 90-92.
chefnoob said:
Don't want to bag Sony down but I have compared the XZ Premium(company issued to me) against the Pixel (I own), Pixel 2 (wife owns) and hands down, it is definitely inferior than the Pixels... It takes crappy low light photos with lots of noise. It also struggles with photos where the background is brighter. Again, I think Sony's problem really is software, just like with most Sony phones I owned.
However, I'm not saying that it doesn't do decent photos, it does. I think 86 is too low. Personally, I'd rate it around 90-92.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think everyone knows already that the Pixel has a better camera.
According to this article all the rear cameras has ois and not just one as Huawei informed us about. Are they trying to make their AI software looking better than it actually is? All other phone makers would have bragged about ois on all three cameras
https://www.theverge.com/circuitbre...pro-optical-image-stabilization-triple-camera
easycure1974 said:
According to this article all the rear cameras has ois and not just one as Huawei informed us about. Are they trying to make their AI software looking better than it actually is? All other phone makers would have bragged about ois on all three cameras
https://www.theverge.com/circuitbre...pro-optical-image-stabilization-triple-camera
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Click to collapse
If that's true why is their 4k recording so shaky?
lawtq said:
If that's true why is their 4k recording so shaky?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes is seems very strange - it will be interesting to read more about this
lawtq said:
If that's true why is their 4k recording so shaky?
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Hardware is useless, if the software haven't being configured to use it.
I hope huawei add the stabilisation to 4K mode soon
otonieru said:
Hardware is useless, if the software haven't being configured to use it.
I hope huawei add the stabilisation to 4K mode soon
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why do you think they haven't already? Cause the 970 isn't capable. Hopefully they do though. This phone would be exciting if it wasn't for the old chipset! Sigh
lawtq said:
Why do you think they haven't already? Cause the 970 isn't capable. Hopefully they do though. This phone would be exciting if it wasn't for the old chipset! Sigh
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well it's not really old, end of 2017. It's definitely powerful enough. Just not as powerful as Qualcoms latest on paper and in benchmarks. That's to be expected though. Even much older less powerful chips can handle 4k with ois.
There is nothing on android that can even push the SoC's from 3 years ago. The hardware is just way ahead of the software. It's all a race to get the best looking specs on paper now, regardless of whether it's actually needed or not.
In my own testing the P20 Pro is just as quick in pretty much anything other than benchmarks, which in real life usage mean nothing. Its all about the user experience. There isn't a game to push the latest hardware and won't be even towards the end of life of all these new gen devices.
Not sure why they didn't include it. The hardware is more than capable.
Highspeed123 said:
Well it's not really old, end of 2017. It's definitely powerful enough. Just not as powerful as Qualcoms latest on paper and in benchmarks. That's to be expected though. Even much older less powerful chips can handle 4k with ois.
There is nothing on android that can even push the SoC's from 3 years ago. The hardware is just way ahead of the software. It's all a race to get the best looking specs on paper now, regardless of whether it's actually needed or not.
In my own testing the P20 Pro is just as quick in pretty much anything other than benchmarks, which in real life usage mean nothing. Its all about the user experience. There isn't a game to push the latest hardware and won't be even towards the end of life of all these new gen devices.
Not sure why they didn't include it. The hardware is more than capable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good points! I hope you're right. 1080p ain't enough anymore
easycure1974 said:
According to this article all the rear cameras has ois and not just one as Huawei informed us about. Are they trying to make their AI software looking better than it actually is? All other phone makers would have bragged about ois on all three cameras
https://www.theverge.com/circuitbre...pro-optical-image-stabilization-triple-camera
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really hope that they add the stabilisation to 4k videos because now is terrible... And videos shot in full HD look very poor quality...
If hardware is on board I don't want to be cheated by Huawei
lawtq said:
Why do you think they haven't already? Cause the 970 isn't capable. Hopefully they do though. This phone would be exciting if it wasn't for the old chipset! Sigh
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is simply not true. 970 is almost as capable as 2017 exynos and snapdragon.
But honestly. I've been living around thousand people everyday, and i find, there's less than hundred of them would record video on daily basis,
And when they did, they either do it in 1080 or 720.
Why ? Because most of it would end in social media. And uploading something as huge as 4K simply wont do for most people,
Not to mention most of phone out there which used to watch the video later on are mostly still on full HD resolution as well.
I understand the argument from people who said they shoot it to be watch on their 4K TV. But they are not majority in the community.
Heck, i even can count with my finger, how many times i have recorded a video using my mobile phone from january last year up to today. LoL. Am simply a "still image" guy
Thats why,
As bad as missing 4K stabilisation in spec sheet, it wont have that as huge impact in daily life user.
But, surely thats bad for marketing communication. And reviewer will use it again and again as a weak point.
I shoot videos occasionally but only in 1080p regardless of which phone or camera I use.
It's just amateur video for my personal view not for commercial so no point to waste space.
Regarding there being nothing that even taxes older SoCs to their limits - anyone who does emulator gaming can tell you there certainly are use case scenarios that do. My Mate 10 handles a lot of emulation well enough, but the likes of Dolphin are better on better performing SoCs nevertheless (this is not all down to raw power though, how well drivers are implemented also makes a difference, however most mobile drivers are rubbish across the board, so the brute force of higher chip speeds is welcomed here).
otonieru said:
And when they did, they either do it in 1080 or 720.
Why ? Because most of it would end in social media. And uploading something as huge as 4K simply wont do for most people,
Not to mention most of phone out there which used to watch the video later on are mostly still on full HD resolution as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly this, most video is used for social media now, where it gets compressed to helll and viewed on tiny screens. There is no real need to push for 4K recording and those that really want it will probably buy dedicated recorders or a gimbal.
Btw the super slo-mo on this is good! Saw Diversity at the weekend, apologises for the shake at the start, daughter was bouncing up and down lol
https://twitter.com/DaveP2611/status/983071212984299521
@DaveP2611 quick question about the slow-mo, how do you actually setup the device for slow mo recording?
Is is similar to older Samsung devices where you record a video using the slow mo function and then select which part of the video to slow down and by what ammount?
---------- Post added at 12:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:44 PM ----------
[/COLOR @DaveP2611 quick question about the slow-mo, how do you actually setup the device for slow mo recording?
Is is similar to older Samsung devices where you record a video using the slow mo function and then select which part of the video to slow down and by what ammount?
5nak3 said:
@DaveP2611 quick question about the slow-mo, how do you actually setup the device for slow mo recording?
Is is similar to older Samsung devices where you record a video using the slow mo function and then select which part of the video to slow down and by what ammount?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's an option within the camera, under More, you then have a Slow-Mo option, under x4/x8 there doesn't seem to be any recording length limit, the x32 seems to be a snapshot of ten seconds and picks when it slows down itself as seen in the clip I posted.
Awesome, thanks for the quick reply!
Shame you can't pick out the section of the video you want to slow down at x32. It's one of the things I think my note 4 did well despite only having x8 slowmo capture.
---------- Post added at 12:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:58 PM ----------
Awesome, thanks for the quick reply!
Shame you can't pick out the section of the video you want to slow down at x32. It's one of the things I think my note 4 did well despite only having x8 slowmo capture.
I really think that all the stabilization in pictures is done via OIS and they just claim it’s the magic of AI just to use that as a differential marketing advantage.Maybe AI is not so smart / cutting edge...
djmaxi said:
I really think that all the stabilization in pictures is done via OIS and they just claim it’s the magic of AI just to use that as a differential marketing advantage.Maybe AI is not so smart / cutting edge...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats not really the case as well, since by using it to shoot, i can definitely tell that sometimes, there simply no OIS. OIS movement will always seen in preview prior to shoot. You can see it move the picture to the opposite direction of your hand movement. And when there's no feedback/counter movement, you can tell that no OIS in action.
delete me
justyourimage said:
Well, and an AI isn't an AI if it isn't intelligent.
That's marketing for you.
They simply named their Auto-Mode to AI-Powered because they managed to implement a few "new" things that don't work properly for what it was intended for (shooting good pictures from the hip).
I mean it's not like there were things like Dual Pixel AF and Laser AF were invented for no reason ... and they work most of the time (for what they were made for) unless the manufacturer ****s really up.
Now I can die happly. Especially knowing that they haven't even enabled OIS for the photos AND video.
I would have never guessed some manufacturer to **** up so badly ... let's see if they will ever "fix" or even "admit" it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's more amazing you would jump to conclusion so easily.
https://www.anandtech.com/comments/12633/cadence-announces-tensilica-vision-q6-dsp/596655
Look in the comments section. Wait for the full review if you want to know all the technical details.
All that that tear-down showed is that the modules have an auto-focus mechanism. Just because the lens wobbles doesn't mean it's OIS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just go to the shop and try it out and make up your own minds instead of following what people complain nonstop on the internet. The echo chamber is ridiculous. The 1080p video stabilization for example is amazing trying it in person, the most likely reason they aren't doing it on 4k is that the hardware is not capable of doing it.
I'm not sure the kirin 970's isp is powerful enough, or have the bandwidth, to stabilize 4k. I imagine it would be there if it was possible.
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As it stands today, the Pixel Camera is considered by most to be the Gold Standard. Most of the magic happens after the picture is taken via software. Why can't One Plus figure this magic out to some degree? The sensors are more than capable. The stock camera doesn't take bad pictures, but certainly inconsistent. My Pixel 2 XL blows the stock camera on the One Plus 7 Pro out of the water. The Gcam mods help and I appreciate the work by those devs, but this should be handled by One Plus. Is the software magic that hard to replicate by One Plus?
Lesser Version said:
As it stands today, the Pixel Camera is considered by most to be the Gold Standard. Most of the magic happens after the picture is taken via software. Why can't One Plus figure this magic out to some degree? The sensors are more than capable. The stock camera doesn't take bad pictures, but certainly inconsistent. My Pixel 2 XL blows the stock camera on the One Plus 7 Pro out of the water. The Gcam mods help and I appreciate the work by those devs, but this should be handled by One Plus. Is the software magic that hard to replicate by One Plus?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it's a bit difficult. Here's why...
https://www.phonearena.com/news/Nig...-Ultra-wide-cameras-on-OnePlus-7-Pro_id117647
Στάλθηκε από το GM1913 μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk
I always thought it looked amazing, especially on the phone's display.
I guess if you're more into cameras you notice these things.
Also looks great to me...
slayerh4x said:
I always thought it looked amazing, especially on the phone's display.
I guess if you're more into cameras you notice these things.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All depends on your expectations. I think the pics from the stock camera looks pretty great, especially in good light. The original poster is comparing the photo quality to the Pixel 2 XL, so I can't make that comparison personally. For me, on one hand, if I really want the best image quality, I'll use my "real camera". On the other hand, I'm usually pretty impressed when I do use my 7 Pro for snapshots.
To address the original poster's question, the big difference is that Google has nearly endless cash and resources to throw at what they think is important. And it's pretty clear they look at the camera on the Pixel line as a discriminator; and versus the likes of Samsung and Apple (if not in sales numbers, than by device price and "flagship" device status). Where OnePlus is a pretty small company, content with existing in a more "value" priced space (even if the price keep incrementally bumping up with each iteration). OnePlus phones doesn't quite max out the specs in every category (we all know that), but they give us a great device for a great price.
A big notch, chin, and bezel usually comes with the pixel camera
Google and other OEMs have extensive resources in their software department. Google has AI and resources to focus on photography. It's amazing me that Oneplus cameras can rival many flagships.
galaxys said:
A big notch, chin, and bezel usually comes with the pixel camera
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Click to collapse
This made me laugh this morning......thanks!
Robert235 said:
Google and other OEMs have extensive resources in their software department. Google has AI and resources to focus on photography. It's amazing me that Oneplus cameras can rival many flagships.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My thoughts exactly. Not only does Google have the cash to burn, but also massive amounts of data to draw upon for their AI machine learning. Plus, development of image AI probably has tons of applications for other Google projects, besides just the camera app or the Pixel phones. So it probably makes perfect sense in the bigger picture for Google to be spending resources on the camera app and related technologies.
None of this really applies to OnePlus. They are just a relatively small company making some nice phones.
This whole subject on phones and cameras makes me laugh all the time. I'm an enthusiast photog and do a lot of photography. I have some serious equipment just to give some background. These phones are point and shoot cameras. They do extremely well in all situations really. They generally take a photo at comparable quality as a DSLR from 10 years ago. if I need serious photos, I'll look out my gear. These phones are more than enough for 90% of anyone taking photos. I can use my OnePlus 7 pro in manual mode and get photos good enough to be used professionally. In auto I can get better than most DSLR cameras from 10 years ago.
Every phone camera has flaws, including pixel, Samsung, Huawei and apple. That's why in these photo camera comparisons the op7 is best in a certain situation, Samsung is better here and apple is better there. This is why people like myself still spend $3-4k on camera like a Nikon D850. I use my phone camera probably 85% of the time, they are still that good
I have the P40 pro so no I’m not trolling here, honest!
One of the main reasons I went with the P40 was the camera, and after a week or so with it I am impressed, just not blown away in the same way I was a year ago with the P30 pro. It is good just not as good as I was expecting and in most every day scenarios the pixel or current iPhone are better (IMO)
Certainly I am not seeing what a lot of reviewers have that’s for sure.
How is everybody else finding theirs?
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I find Samsungs offering, s20 ultra, better in camera, at least in my eyes.
I don't like skin tones from p40. Look a bit unnatural
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Honestly speaking I also feel the camera a bit overrated.... Yes, its very good - but the competitors have stepped up and deliver a comparable experience and image quality... Only the 5x optical zoom remains, at least comparing it some of the competitors....
jor1ge said:
I find Samsungs offering, s20 ultra, better in camera, at least in my eyes.
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I would not go that far :laugh:
Seriously though I have recently sold my S20 Ultra, for every day photos of people and pets i.e. anything that might not be perfectly still I just could not trust it. It is 100% software IMO, I just do not think that Samsung get it. Otherwise I really liked the Ultra, but a camera I can trust is an important feature, does not have to be the best.
Back to the P40 pro, it has got me thinking as to how many 'sponsored' reviews are out there? Or more likely a lot of reviewers are more worried with buildings or how sharp that street sign looks at 50x zoom i.e. not real world stuff.
Competitors, namely the S20 have had a few software upgrades that have optimised the camera. Oneplus users have also reported much better camera performace follwing an update.
I would wait until Huwaei releases a couple more updates (in China they have released at least 2 more already); no doubt it should come optimised out of the box but this is the case with all manufacturers.
I believe the camera produces an excellent photo in 80% of the photos I take when I am not really focused in getting the best shot possible (point and shoot style) - the not so good ones has mostly to do with bad framing, inadequate composition, not holding still, subject moving too fast, etc.
It is also worth learning about all the options in the camera inteface and play around with them, I have improved the quality of my shots by making the most of the things I can change in the UI; you will not get a better PRO mode on any other camera in my opinion. I have also learnt, for example, that disabling the AI in some scenarios produces better and more natural shots. Switching off beautification mode helps with the skin tone, etc... If you cannot be bothered with that, with actually toggling options and seeing what works best in different scenarios and what works best for you, then maybe it is not the best phone for you.
The only mode where I think I was disapointed to an extent is the night mode but I do not think that it is a hardware problem. I think it is a colour calibration issue which can be rectified at software level.
At the end of the day we see things differently and have different tastes in photography. I like the Huwaei style and that is why I have chosen it (the pre-order gifts have also gave it a push and of course the challenge of modding it to allow for GMS to work - that is why we are all here right?).
I am sure the camera will be improved with a few more tweaks to the software, especially the night mode.
So far I am really happy with the phone and especially with the camera; I would not say that it is overrated but perhaps your expectations were much higher than mine!
Cheers,
L.
rainchuva said:
... you will not get a better PRO mode on any other camera in my opinion.
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Unfortunately, that just means that other PRO modes are even worse than our P40 Pro's PRO mode.
I regard the PRO mode as an unbearable nuisance. It had been a fully-fledged catastrophy with the P20 Pro - and Huawei didn't learn a single lesson since then.
We've got such a capable camera system - totally crippled by that "Pro" mode making every non-newbee boil with rage. :/
Just a few short examples:
Huawei provided the option of locking some settings, so they won't change after restarting the camera. I can lock Exposure compensation (EV), Autofocus mode and White balance - but I cannot lock ISO, Metering mode and Manual focus!
ISO: High ISO values cause grainy pictures, thus I wish to keep my ISO as low as possible. One of the most important settings. And Huawei doesn't allow locking that.
Metering: Spot metering ist the way to go if you don't do just point-and-shoot. Full range metering (default) calculates a kind of brightness average - resulting in lighter parts of the picture burning out. This is not recoverable (not even with RAW files), the details are gone forever. That's why we better use a bright spot for precise metering, even if the whole picture gets a bit darker. Darker parts can be saved, burned out parts are gone forever. And Huawei doesn't allow locking the metering mode to spot!
Manual focus: Manual focus is just unusable (thus not being able to lock it doesn't mean the end of this world).
But: To be able to manually focus, I need to press on AF, choose Manual focus. Then a focus bar appears almost in the middle of the screen, covering the picture, forcing me to use the tip of my finger on the picture, thus I don't see great parts of the motif anymore. Then I am unable to focus correctly because there is NO MEANS for helping me focus, like focus peaking, just NOTHING. I can just watch the tiny picture getting more and less blurry and guess where I could set the focus to achieve a half-way sharp picture. In the end, the finished photo shows I guessed wrong. I don't see any details while focusing, I cannot switch to an enlarged display for being able to set the focus correctly. Just guess, just hope somewhere in the middle between two blurry settings could be somewhere near sharp.
Plus: The focus bar disappears after 4 seconds. So it you need some more time, the bar is gone, you need to tap AF again. And if you wish to tap the bar while it just disappeared, your whole focus setting is also gone because your finger hit some part of the picture as the focus bar isn't there anymore - and focuses on the part you just accidentally tapped. It's unbelievably stupid.
That's why manual focus is just a pain in the you-know-where with almost no practical use at all.
And we really, really need manual focusing with that shallow depth of field due to an aperture of 1.9, especially for close range shots.
Had been that way with the P20 Pro, didn't improve at all over time.
And that's just a few reasons why that "Pro" mode isn't much more than a useless toy.
Sorry to say, sincerely. I really, really hope it gets better. :/
I am still happy about the "Pro" mode being there - because it provides some BASIC means (like choosing ISO and metering mode); but that's no PRO features, that's basic features which should be present with all "non-pro" modes anyway.
It has been a while since I had the P30 Pro but I remember that being on a par with the Pixel 4 and iPhone 11 pro which right now the P40 is not (other than at full zoom) I am talking the main camera here mostly.
Don't get me wrong in most conditions it is infinitely better than the Exynos S20 Ultra I had I am just talking about vs. the very best, I got the P40 pro for the camera so it really has to excel to make the other workarounds worth it.
arsenal74 said:
It has been a while since I had the P30 Pro but I remember that being on a par with the Pixel 4 and iPhone 11 pro which right now the P40 is not (other than at full zoom) I am talking the main camera here mostly.
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How about telling a bit more? Do you like the color of the glass covering the camera lenses better with the iPhone? Do you dislike the rectangular shape of the telephoto lens? Or what?
So please go into detail, show comparison photos, FULL resolution, accompanied with EXIF data, point at the differences.
the pricing is totally wrong the camera is average to pretty good depending on how you use it, but P30 pro is found at 400 euro atm while they try to sell this turd GMS-less for 1000 euro + watches etc. instead should've been priced competitively at the price of Poco Phone outside of China
vandal4e said:
the pricing is totally wrong the camera is average to pretty good depending on how you use it, but P30 pro is found at 400 euro atm while they try to sell this turd GMS-less for 1000 euro + watches etc. instead should've been price competitively at the price of Poco Phone outside China
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It would be very kind of you if you had anything to say about the topic. I am pretty sure there's some dedicated forums for anything else.
Also, it would be very kind of you if you could put a little effort into discovering the use of punctuation marks and capital letters. Those tricky little things indeed are a great help for making your post understandable, saving other users a bunch of time otherwise needed for reading your posts again and again - in despair for finding logical blocks allowing to extract some meaning, if any.
Simply put: If you've got nothing to say, just don't. And if you've got something to say, please adhere to some basic rules of communication and mutual understanding, preferably refraining from the use of swear words.
A GREAT start would be showing us some comparison pictures of the same subject taken at the same time from the same position, taken with P40 Pro, P30 Pro and Pocophone, accompanied with EXIF data.
Thank you.
the most useless post for 2020 good one junior
I have just received an update (Three network - UK). Has anyone played with the camera after the update and noticed any improvements?
Im not sure if it's me but objects at even 15cm take a long time to focus, and after that I can only get to about x4.6 magnification for use able images. Note: about 15 cm is the closest I can get on x1 magnification, anything closer the image looses focus.
Once the x5 lens kicks in you cannot even see what you are taking a photo of.
Is it just me? I've attached a couple of examples. x1, x4.6, x5.
Anything above x4.7 the focus length completely changes and everything gets blurry
hve you tried disabling the AI?
I did and it didn't seem to make much difference
PartheevP said:
Im not sure if it's me but objects at even 15cm take a long time to focus, and after that I can only get to about x4.6 magnification for use able images. Note: about 15 cm is the closest I can get on x1 magnification, anything closer the image looses focus.
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That's correct behavior. At present (firmware .121) there's no dedicated macro mode. There's some rumors about a macro mode coming with the next firmware updates - but you should take that with a grain of salt (don't rely on that).
My guess on the slow focus: This is caused by the low distance, too close for the fast laser autofocus to work, so the P40 Pro needs to rely on "traditional" autofocus taking some more time.
Once the x5 lens kicks in you cannot even see what you are taking a photo of.
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Of course, because everything over 5 x should (unfortunately that's not always the case) invoke the telephoto lens - and the name might suggest it's meant for telephotos, not for close-distance shots.
The telephoto lens just needs more distance to the object to focus.
Huawei are aware of the bug as we raised it with them.
If you zoom in 10x you can't focus on anything close up either.
Update 10.1.0.131 has really better close-up shots.
donpablo80 said:
Update 10.1.0.131 has really better close-up shots.
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Yeah .131 adds AI Mode "Close-Up" which really improves the macro mode. It's still not as good as the P30 Pro's Macro Mode because of the lens types but it's a vast improvement on what the P40 Pro was doing before the .131 update
AnthonyParryUK said:
Yeah .131 adds AI Mode "Close-Up" which really improves the macro mode. It's still not as good as the P30 Pro's Macro Mode because of the lens types but it's a vast improvement on what the P40 Pro was doing before the .131 update
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Wierd I have. 131 but I didn't see the close up ai function come up. Will try again. But you are right even compared to my p20 pro it isn't as close
No macro lens no macro pictures. Stop trying to do something the phone is not capable of. Use rhe 50mp ai focus with loads of light instead and boom you can zoom in with great detail
spvc500 said:
Huawei are aware of the bug as we raised it with them.
If you zoom in 10x you can't focus on anything close up either.
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Ive got the p40 pro and ive tried taking a few shots at different zooms and im not really facing that issue i know curently theres no super macro embedded on this emui version but im confident itll come
tasked28m said:
No macro lens no macro pictures. Stop trying to do something the phone is not capable of. Use rhe 50mp ai focus with loads of light instead and boom you can zoom in with great detail
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Thank you very much for stating this.
Central problem is people being unaware of the way cameras work.
In another thread, there was someone complaining about "unfocused" picture parts - parts in the background and foreground, outside the depth of field.
OF COURSE that parts are out of focus - because they are out of focus.
Even after lengthy explanations he wasn't willing to change his mind.
If they ain't got any bokeh, they complain about the flat pics. If they got bokeh, they complain about the pics not being flat.
Similar here: I see users complaining about the laws of nature. I guess I'd spend most of my time studying online instructions on how to make letter bombs if I worked at Huawei's customer support.
Right in this thread: I explained the camera behaves just the way it should be, there is NO bug. Response: "Huawei are aware of the bug as we raised it with them. If you zoom in 10x you can't focus on anything close up either. "
So I really, really appreciate a solitary voice of reason.
Klosterbruder said:
Thank you very much for stating this.
Central problem is people being unaware of the way cameras work.
In another thread, there was someone complaining about "unfocused" picture parts - parts in the background and foreground, outside the depth of field.
OF COURSE that parts are out of focus - because they are out of focus.
Even after lengthy explanations he wasn't willing to change his mind.
If they ain't got any bokeh, they complain about the flat pics. If they got bokeh, they complain about the pics not being flat.
Similar here: I see users complaining about the laws of nature. I guess I'd spend most of my time studying online instructions on how to make letter bombs if I worked at Huawei's customer support.
Right in this thread: I explained the camera behaves just the way it should be, there is NO bug. Response: "Huawei are aware of the bug as we raised it with them. If you zoom in 10x you can't focus on anything close up either. "
So I really, really appreciate a solitary voice of reason.
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THis isnt really a complain about the cameras, i fully understand how they work for the most part. However the focal distance for this phone isnt very good. Clearly this is by design....i wanted to now if others have the same issue. As its a step down from the previous p series -> non-sensical when releasing new and better versions.
. 131 bring a closecup feature which immitates macro photography. With proper lighting you can get similar results with p30 pro.
Even after the update, the close up is terrible. My Samsung s9+ could take incredible close-up pics... I'm quite shocked at the lack of capability
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Puffin617 said:
Even after the update, the close up is terrible. My Samsung s9+ could take incredible close-up pics... I'm quite shocked at the lack of capability
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Could you tell me what's wrong with this unprocessed macro picture of a part of a 50 Euro banknote, taken this morning with my P40 Pro (still on firmware .121)? Anything terrible, shocking, incapable?
... one day later: "Still ruht der See." (peace everywhere) :laugh:
It's not even close and nothing focuses...
Firmware 131, btw
Dude if you have a focus problem it might be a faulty device nothing wrong with the rest of us
Mate no on here explains you right. They using pro mode for normal focus on a camera phone and no ones telling you. They are unbelievable ppl here only supporting a low software phone which cNt focus right on a normal distance with a simple tap. Every one here uses pro mode to get a subject completly focus.. And they happy for that
Don't you even listen to ppl here xda isn't so good any more as it was.. If focus was good huwaei will not try to fix it with updates
.. Also if P40 pro hasn't issues with sharpness huwaei will not try to fix it with updates... Here it is your next version update you w8ing for hope to fix all those problems with focus
Noexcusses said:
Mate no on here explains you right. They using pro mode for normal focus on a camera phone and no ones telling you.
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You know the Ten Commandments? - The ninth is "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour", or short: You shall not lie!
I didn't use the "Pro mode" because I cannot manually focus as there are no focusing aids like focus peaking.
I used the PLAIN NORMAL PHOTO MODE for that 50 Euro picture, nothing else.
By the way: "Pro mode" wouldn't help at all because you cannot overcome the physical limitations of the lens just by using a different software mode.
They are unbelievable ppl here only supporting a low software phone which cNt focus right on a normal distance with a simple tap. Every one here uses pro mode to get a subject completly focus.. And they happy for that
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Stop telling nonsense!
TRY FOR YOURSELF if it's possible to better focus on close objects using the "Pro mode". Surprise! You'll find out that it's EXACTLY THE SAME minimum focus distance.
I expect your public feedback on this. And I expect you saying "Sorry, I was wrong."
Don't you even listen to ppl here xda isn't so good any more as it was.. If focus was good huwaei will not try to fix it with updates
.. Also if P40 pro hasn't issues with sharpness huwaei will not try to fix it with updates...
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Nonsense again. Huawei implemented that "AI macro mode" because clueless people like you, not willing to listing, not willing to accept the laws of physics, won't stop ranting about things they don't understand and don't know how to cope with. So Huawei tries to find solutions even for those who don't know how to handle a camera correctly. This is a courtesy, not an admittance of faults.
I am really, really fed up with your non-stop *****ing about things working perfectly well.
It's not the P40 Pro making it wrong, it's you.
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Puffin617: Use normal photo mode with 5 x zoom. Increase the distance to your subject until it's properly focused, make sure your hands don't shake. Don't even try manual focusing in Pro mode, it's close to impossible due to the lack of focusing aids like focus peaking. That's something Huawei indeed screwed.