Database Info

News: Battery Booster will coming Next week

After a long time research and development. We are going to lunch our new product especially for android smartphones named "Battery Booster". This is our website http://www.downloadandroid.info (Not sure if post this link is ok? If not, please inform me.) Our site includes a lot of information for android phones, such as: our own apps for health, utility and lifestyle. Our blog supply android informations such as news and updates, free app&theme resources, and app reviews for android user can take a whole review of android apps.
I will post later about the features of our new product BatteryBooster. Hope you like.

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Hi see the features of our new product "Battery Booster":
Features:
* Real-time battery status (capacity, temperature, voltage, and charging status, etc) monitor and battery usage tracking
* Homescreen widget support (Add to homescreen with Menu -> Add -> Widgets -> Battery Booster)
* Shortcuts to WiFi/Bluetooth/Screen Brightness/Screen Timeout settings
* Battery Calibration Notification to maximize your battery life span
* Settings to turn off WiFi/Bluetooth when device is locked. (The status of WiFi/Bluetooth will be saved and restored after your device is unlocked.)
* Settings to turn off WiFi/Bluetooth when your battery is low.
* Settings to enable beep and select beep tone when your battery is low.
* Save more battery with built-in smart task manager (Based on Memory Booster – Android RAM Optimizer)
Screenshots:
Battery Booster-Boost Your Battery’s Running Time and Max Battery Life, It's free just try it and give us your suggestion. Thanks
For mobile users, you can directly download from our mobile site: http://mobi.downloadandroid.info/battery-booster.php

Well, thanks for this - I love the concept and detail of the app! Looks great!

Davidandroid said:
After a long time research and development. We are going to lunch
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol might want to fix that
Looks good though

MacaronyMax said:
lol might want to fix that
Looks good though
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, I was having lunch when Battery Booster launched Thanks anyway....

Can Battery Booster wins anymore awsome

Has anyone tried it yet?

I will give a try and post later,

Not big on the ads down on the bottom. Havent noticed much change from another battery app I use. Nice look to it and icons are noce.

Read the comments on the martket and i am sure l will try it.

This app is absoloutely fantastic increased my battery life from 6 hours to 20 hours+
I love the widget
Problem is it is stopping my alarm going off each morning. Does any one know how to make your alarm still work with it installed.

Update
Battery Booster (Free) just update to Version 1.7. Please read more information about this update Here

great app. would be willing to pay for it if you could remove the adds at bottom of screen !!! JUST A THOUGHT !~!

Davidandroid said:
Hi see the features of our new product "Battery Plus":
Features:
* Real-time battery status (capacity, temperature, voltage, and charging status, etc) monitor and battery usage tracking
* Homescreen widget support (Add to homescreen with Menu -> Add -> Widgets -> Battery Booster)
* Shortcuts to WiFi/Bluetooth/Screen Brightness/Screen Timeout settings
* Battery Calibration Notification to maximize your battery life span
* Settings to turn off WiFi/Bluetooth when device is locked. (The status of WiFi/Bluetooth will be saved and restored after your device is unlocked.)
* Settings to turn off WiFi/Bluetooth when your battery is low.
* Settings to enable beep and select beep tone when your battery is low.
* Save more battery with built-in smart task manager (Based on Memory Booster – Android RAM Optimizer)
Screenshots:
Battery Booster-Boost Your Battery’s Running Time and Max Battery Life, It's free just try it and give us your suggestion. Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Suggestion:
Display the percent remaining as well as an estimated time left on the widget
Questions:
Could you go into more detail about the task manager...Does the task manager function similar to autokiller which allows the user to set thresholds as to when the memory manager starts cleaning up various apps.
What is battery calibration?
Will any conflicts occur if you are using other battery tweak programs such as collin_ph's battery tweak for example

acke2008 said:
This app is absoloutely fantastic increased my battery life from 6 hours to 20 hours+
I love the widget
Problem is it is stopping my alarm going off each morning. Does any one know how to make your alarm still work with it installed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm gonna call BS on that. It *might* be able to increase battery by a small amount (unlikely, as the very act of monitoring the battery so closely WILL drain more power), but 14+ hours? Absolute BS.

Yeah stuff like this dont do magic lol.

dsMA said:
Suggestion:
Display the percent remaining as well as an estimated time left on the widget
Questions:
Could you go into more detail about the task manager...Does the task manager function similar to autokiller which allows the user to set thresholds as to when the memory manager starts cleaning up various apps.
What is battery calibration?
Will any conflicts occur if you are using other battery tweak programs such as collin_ph's battery tweak for example
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First thanks for your suggestion.
As for your question:
1. Smart Task Manager: Save more battery by smartly killing idle processes running in the background (Based on Memory Booster - Android RAM Optimizer).
2.A battery calibration means ‘Give your Android a full charge, then let the battery run out. Then recharge it to full'. A complete cycle is counted as a calibration. This is goog for your battery and maximum battery life
3. I don't use battery tweek, so I am not sure. But I will test about this question and post later

Probably need to see some stats. I've tried lots of battery optimisers (ultimate juice etc) and in the end I've removed them all as I get best battery life by doing the standard stuff like turning screen brightness down, setting wifi to turn off after 15 mins inactivity and running an undervolted kernel. I'd love to be proved wrong, but I'm sceptical.

landwomble said:
Probably need to see some stats. I've tried lots of battery optimisers (ultimate juice etc) and in the end I've removed them all as I get best battery life by doing the standard stuff like turning screen brightness down, setting wifi to turn off after 15 mins inactivity and running an undervolted kernel. I'd love to be proved wrong, but I'm sceptical.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can have a try of Battery Booster, It's totally free. Please leave your questions or suggestions, we will improve it for better use. Thanks

Works pretty good. Notice my phone is running faster. Would be better if the icon displayed the battery level.

Battery with System Panel

I went to sleep around 11:30 last night. Before I went to bed I turned off mobile completely and had 94%. When I woke up at 7:45 I had 64%. Take a look at these screenshots and tell me how I can improve my battery. As you can see in the second screenshot I didn't use my phone at all but look at the drastic decrease.
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Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App

That's odd for sure. Did you check the system's battery stats? Just seems like the app you're using isn't telling the whole story.
BTW, what app is that?
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

System Panel
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App

Anyone know what I could do to fix this?
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App

First thing I'd target is system panel itself...an app that polls your phone for system statistics...yeah...

Was this a one time thing, or does it happen every night? Did you check the system's battery info, as suggested above? Are you running a custom kernel/ROM? Did you see CPU spikes in System Panel during that period? Was wifi on?
I frankly have no idea what your problem could be, but a little more info might help.

Carnage9270 said:
First thing I'd target is system panel itself...an app that polls your phone for system statistics...yeah...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
system panel is superb, it uses barely any cpu at all.
anyway to the OP, i do the same test every night, i leave my phone idle, then check system panel in the morning. i drop 6% in 7 hours, but yours definitely dropped a lot. obviously no app or process is showing up, so i would just reboot and try another test tonight. perhaps some glitch happened, radio was wacky, i dont know. but that's not normal.
however we do know that the stock ROM has a high current draw at idle, around 34mA, when other phones get 4mA during idle. so who knows maybe it's normal.
i wish i had some screen shots of my system panel figures to show you.

I've noticed abnormal battery usage with low phone signal as well. Think the phones (Inc and Thunderbolt) ramp up voltage trying to amplify a low signal.
But i notice that you have a graph for 8 hours but the usage report is showing you only 2 mins. Dont think it's giving you an accurate usage report while charging. Depending on what you having it charging on it's possible to drain more charge than your receiving. Especially with USB computer charging.

Carnage9270 said:
First thing I'd target is system panel itself...an app that polls your phone for system statistics...yeah...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Linux is actually keeping the statistics, the app just scans /proc and other directories at intervals to log it over time. Intervals are 15 minutes-ish on battery, our target spec is <1 min of CPU consumption per day to perform this service. (Am the author)
Unfortunately SystemPanel also isn't finding the specific culprit in this case, i.e., it's only showing that app CPU usage isn't the problem. Best guess in such scenarios is either some app that is running in the background preventing the phone from going into its best low power state or is using a bunch of power running one of the radios. I'd next try doing the same thing in airplane mode.
Will be adding more data logging for additional such as network bandwidth in future versions.

Carnage9270 said:
I've noticed abnormal battery usage with low phone signal as well. Think the phones (Inc and Thunderbolt) ramp up voltage trying to amplify a low signal.
But i notice that you have a graph for 8 hours but the usage report is showing you only 2 mins. Dont think it's giving you an accurate usage report while charging. Depending on what you having it charging on it's possible to drain more charge than your receiving. Especially with USB computer charging.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What the usage report is saying is that in those 8 hours his System Processes only used the CPU for about 2 minutes. That would lead me to believe that there is something running in the back ground that System Monitor is not picking up. I would suggest doing what the Dev above me said and see if that might help figure out what process that is.

ska.t73 said:
What the usage report is saying is that in those 8 hours his System Processes only used the CPU for about 2 minutes. That would lead me to believe that there is something running in the back ground that System Monitor is not picking up. I would suggest doing what the Dev above me said and see if that might help figure out what process that is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i believe system panel uses linux commands such as "top" which picks up everything that hits the CPU. so the offending battery drainer is something else, such as the radio for example going wacky, etc. i admit the OP's usage seems strange as i do the same test every night with system panel, but when something weird does happen, the ofending app clearly shows up in system panel.
the next step is taking logs with the current widget and seeing how high idle current draw is. i get around 5mA to 10mA idle current draw.

BatteryActive - Active Notifications Battery Display

I have created an app that will fire off a notification every 2 minutes displaying your battery level. My intent was to make it so you can easily view your battery level through Active Notifications.
You are able to turn the service on and off and set the times when it is to be running. Please let me know of any serious or annoying bugs and I will attempt to fix them. Also looking for new features that would be handy to have.
BatteryActive Folder with Change Log
Change log:
v1.0 -
Initial release
v1.1
Fixed Start Time display to show two digits for minutes always
Fixed End Time display to show two digits for minutes always
00:00 is displayed as Midnight
Slider shows proper setting when exiting app and reloading
Removed exit button (was redundant)
v1.2
Improved logic in attempt to reduce wake lock footprint
v1.3
Fixed wake lock issue. Was due to improper handling of closing/hiding the scene when using the Home button.
v1.4
Changed notification interval to every 5 minutes
Fixed the way minutes, in the singles range, display. I.E two past 12 now displays as 12:02 not 12:2.
Set app to only notify when screen is off
Set app to only notify if battery level has changed since the last 5 minute cycle.
v1.5
Complete rework of the user interface
Created Notification Settings page to facilitate changes within the app
Added user set variables to control at what battery percent notifications will begin
Added a low battery threshold setting that allows users to get more frequent updates on battery life when battery percent is below a user defined setting.

Trying it now. Although I don't quite understand what the start time and end time are supposed to do.
Edit: it works as you said. I would like some clarification on the start and end time though. Also if I could make a request? Could it also get an option to turn off or hide the status bar notification? Otherwise this is pretty awesome. Thanks.

Start and end times are the times between which you want the app to fire off notifications. Say you want to only be notified of battery level between the time you go to work and when you get home.
You set the start time to when you leave for work and the end time for when you get home. Only between those hours will receive notifications about your battery percentage.
Just note that right now I am getting massive E wakelocks from the app. This is due to Tasker's exceution of the tasks I have set. I have created some new logic to reduce the number of tasks run each time. I will upload the new version in a few to see if it helps the execution wakelocks that prevent the phone from deep sleep.

OK, thanks for the clarification on the timers. It works pretty well. I'll keep checking for updates too. Well done.

Thanks. Also, I can't stop the status bar notifications while the phone in asleep, though I may be able to create a task that detects if your screen is on and will only fire off a notification when the screen is off.

Project canceled until I can find a way to keep Tasked from keeping the phone awake when the app is enabled. No point in tracking battery life when the app isn't letting the phone deep sleep.

Really cool idea!
Sleep on it for a few days? :good:

Version 1.3 released fixing wake lock issues

Awesome. Downloading the update now.

Version 1.4 released.
I attempted to add a shake gesture so that by picking up the phone a notification would trigger, however, shake gestures only work when the screen is on
Plan on adding a way to set to notify only past a user defined battery percentage
Also had the idea to increase notifications to a 2 minute cycle when the battery drops below a second user defined battery level. The idea behind this is to allow the user to define when he/she wants to know what the battery percentage level is. For me, I want to know when my battery is below 50%, at that point, I usually monitor my usage if I am out and about, and then I would want to have a closer look at battery life if it goes below 25%.
The app would, with those two user defined setting, only notify me if my battery is below 50% on a 5 minute cycle, and at 25% notify me on a 2 minute cycle.
As of version 1.4, I have realized that with the 5 minute interval and the addition of only notifying if the battery level has changed from the last cycle, there will be fewer updates. Will this be a problem? The main idea of this app was to always have the current battery level just at your finger tips. With the new logic added, I could reduce the cycle time back to two minutes, but this would in turn keep the wakelocks somewhat high, even if the app doesn't actually keep the phone awake for very long. Please provide any feedback possible.

Does this work with Stock rom

mac1996 said:
Does this work with Stock rom
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It should. No need for root.

Testing it on my moto g with Acdisplay app!
Gonna update you with battery life
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Released version 1.5 for more user control.

[APP][4.1.1+] Battery Warner - This app helps your battery to live longer!

What is this?
That's a battery warner, that warns you, when your battery reaches X% on charging or Y% on discharging.
Why should i need that??
Lithium-ion batteries have a longer life, if you pay attention to the following things:
- Don't let the battery too long at 100% on the charger
- Don't discharge it completely
- For the longest life, you need to load "flat"
--> That means, that you charge e.g. between 20-80% instead of 0-100%
And to help you with that, i developed that app:
- It warns you when charging and reaching X% to help you to load "flat"
- And when you discharged to Y%
- If you are rooted you can stop charging after the limit is reached!
Another point is, that you save time, because batteries load slower at 80+%!
Other Features you can use without root:
Creation of a charging graph, so that you see how you have charged and how warm the battery got.
History of past chargings and auto saving of the charging graphs
An battery information notification with the current state of the battery
A dark theme -> optionally also for the info notification!
You are able to toggle the battery warnings for each charging method (ac charging, usb charging, wireless charging) separately.
Other features where you need root for:
Full Tasker Support for the most important settings (for example enable/disable charging)
Stop charging automatically, so you don't need to be in the near of your device to hear the battery warning.
-> That does not work with every device! I have to optimize the app for some devices!
Smart Charging - controls the charging for longer charging sessions (for example over night) to make the battery have a longer life.
-> For that "stop charging" needs to work on your device!
Disable USB charging
-> This prevents charging when plugged in via USB.
-> This also needs "stop charging" to work for your device!
Resetting the android internal battery stats when the battery high warning triggers.
Enabling the power saving mode when the battery low warning triggers.
Fully supported devices for Stop charging (incomplete list):
Oneplus One, 2, 3, 3T, 5T
Samsung Galaxy S3
Moto G (2014)
Nexus 4, 5, 6
Galaxy Nexus (maguro)
Amazon Fire
Nvidia Shield
If your device is fully supported and is not on this list, please tell me!
FAQ - Frequently asked questions
Q: How do I get into the closed beta?
A: Send me a PM with your Google email adress you use in the Playstore. If you speak german, you can also take a look into this forum. I have a section for my beta testers there! For beeing a beta tester, you also need to have Telegram!
Q: How do i know if the stop charging feature works with my device?
A: You will get a notification when you are trying to enable it, if your device is not supported!
Q: What can I do if my device does not support Stop Charging yet?
A: Find the stop charging file by yourself, select it in the app, test it and send it to me using "Send file to developer" in the settings menu (located on the screen where you can select your file).
Q: After getting the notification with stop charging enabled, my device won't charge anymore! Help!
A: Reboot your device. That will reset everything! Also send me an email, so i can fix it!
Q: For my (Huawei) device nothing works! What can i do?
A: Just add the app to the battery optimization list in the android settings and everything will work fine.
These images should explain it on Huawei devices.
Q: The app is not translated to my language! Can I translate it?
A: Of course! Just write me a PM. To be a translator, you should be responsive and aware, that if new features come, i will need you!
Q: How does Smart Charging work? (version 1.120+)
A: This picture should explain it to you. If not, tell me.
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Download Links (Playstore)
Free Version
Paid Version
The project is now open source!
Source code on Github!

Thanks page
This library helped me with the intro: https://android-arsenal.com/details/1/4368
Here you can find the library for the graph (GraphView): http://www.android-graphview.org/
Also thanks to Chainfire! https://su.chainfire.eu/#how
Thanks to all my beta testers!
Thanks to this thread for the inspiration/idea of the charge limit: https://forum.xda-developers.com/android/apps-games/root-battery-charge-limit-t3557002
Thanks to all the translators!

Great to see your app here :good:! Good luck.....

thank you!

The update with the stop charging feature is coming tomorrow!

Update version 1.92
- Option to automatically stop charging when the limit is reached! [ROOT]
- Added check boxes to History
- bug fixes and optimizations

Trying it on MM LG G3 Limitless 10.3 Rom ...
P1xelfehler said:
Update version 1.92
- Option to automatically stop charging when the limit is reached! [ROOT]
- Added check boxes to History
- bug fixes and optimizations
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks !
I just install it and I'm testing the automatic stopping condition ... waiting 80% of battery to know if it works ... just waiting for now ....
I will tell you soon

gandul said:
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you!
But please note, that there is the Bug in the 1.92 version that disabled the sound of the notification. I already fixed it in v1.93 and uploaded it.

Well Done ! Working fine on LG G3 MM Limitless 10.3 ROM
P1xelfehler said:
Thank you!
But please note, that there is the Bug in the 1.92 version that disabled the sound of the notification. I already fixed it in v1.93 and uploaded it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don-t worry, I have installed the v1.93.
Well done !
It works very well on My phone.
Very thanks for this useful update !
:good::good::good:

tested it. works nicely. thanks for the brilliant app

Just added a poll.

Great app! Thanks
A new feature that could be implemented : Screen ON (with active drain = the amount of battery used while the screen is on in %/h) and Screen OFF (with idle drain = battery drain while the screen is off in %/h) times (like EX Kernel Manager can do in his Battery Monitor module)
It would a very useful addition to your battery stats to really understand battery life and compare kernel settings for example.
See The truth about kernels and battery life

1.94 release
added french translation (thanks to DocteurN!)

Great!

We just reached 100 active devices for the free version! Thank you!

1.95 release
- measuring screen on/off drain in %/h (default: turned off!)
- bug fixes

1.96 release
- bug fixes

1.97 release
- added possibility to disable charging over usb [Root]
- added notification that is shown if the app has no root access anymore
- Graph saving does not run in the ui thread anymore [Pro]
- minor improvements and bug fixes

For some reason i cannot add the newest apk to the attachements (???)

Hi, great job with the app so far.
One suggestion is why not try to emulate Sony's BatteryCare (and the xposed module, BatteryCare+). You can give users the option to allow access to alarm clock times, which then u can use to predict when to continue charging to 100% maybe 30 minutes or 1 hour before an alarm goes off to minimize overcharging during an overnight charge. This is useful for people who'll be away from a charger for a long period of time for the next day and could use every single % battery available to them. You could also add the ability to schedule which days this setting will be active, for example only during work days, where else on weekends/days off user can use the normal battery charge limit.
Keep up the good work!

Themes / Apps / Mods aodNotify - Notification Light / LED for S22 Ultra - Now with optional notification preview!

You need a notification light / LED for your Galaxy S22 Ultra? With aodNotify you can easily add a notification light / LED directly to Samsung's Always On Display!
You can select different notification light styles and show the notification light around the camera cutout, screen edges or even simulate an notification LED dot in the statusbar of your Galaxy S22 Ultra! As the notification light is integrated in Samsung's Always On Display it has minimal battery consumption and doesn't drain your battery like other apps which keep your phone awake!
If you don't need the Always On Display, the app can also activate the Always On Display (AOD) only on notifications or show the notification light / LED even without the Always On Display!
With the notification preview feature you can directly see if you have important notifications without waking your Galaxy S22 Ultra!
MAIN FEATURES:
• Notification light / LED for Galaxy S22 Ultra, Note 20, S20...
• Low energy notification preview (android 10+)
• Activate Always On Display (AOD) only on notifications
• Charging / Low battery light / LED
MORE FEATURES:
• Notification light styles (around camera, screen, LED dot)
• Custom app / contact colors
• ECO animations to save battery
• Interval mode (on/off) to save battery
• Night times to save battery
• Minimal battery consumption
BATTERY USAGE PER HOUR ~:
• LED - 3.0%
• LED & INTERVAL - 1.5%
• LED & ECO - 1.5%
• LED & ECO & INTERVAL - 1.0%
• NOTIFICATION PREVIEW - 0.5%
• ALWAYS ON DISPLAY - 0.5%
If there is no notification the app consumes almost 0% battery
DOWNLOAD:
NOTES:
• Samsung may block this app with future updates!
• Please check if the app is compatible before updating phone software or always on display!
• Altough we never experienced any screen burn in issues on our test devices, we recommend to not keep the notification light / LED active for a long time! Use at you own responsibility!
"Samsung Galaxy" is a protected trademark of "SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS"

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The app should work fine on S22. Will test asap when i get my S22!

This app has been amazing on every device I use it on. Thumbs up to developer

Used it on my 1+8Pro and it was awesome! Can't wait until my S22U arrives so I can use it on it!!

Jawomo said:
The app should work fine on S22. Will test asap when i get my S22!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Working like a champ on my Snapdragon S22 Ultra with the U1 software. I already have your power button remapper, I've not installed that yet though.

Works great, I was impressed so I bought you coffee. Just gotta work out the best battery settings.

Thanks for the feedback! Will optimize for S22 soon. Enjoy!

Jawomo said:
Thanks for the feedback! Will optimize for S22 soon. Enjoy!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If edge lighting still worked like it did on the note 9 (where you could assign APPS different colors) and you had your notification app working with it that way it would be sooooo sweet.
I love how i can make apps any color in your app but im irritated with samsung about how edge lighting is now.
the 30 on 30 off works pretty well. I have everything configured and set up now so tomorrow I'll now how the battery is going to be when I give it a full 3 hour gym workout with watching movies. my note 9 would drop down to 92% after the workout, so I *HOPE* the s22u is at least as good.

Yep, Just got this, and bought you a coffee.
Thanx and keep up the great work

Noticed that the battery setting doesnt show when the battery hits 100.
(i have it set to red for low, yellow for charging and green for charged). It shows charging but when its charged it doesn't notify me it's charged and pulse green.
Don't know about red, haven't let the battey hit 15%
Everything else works so far to my knowledge

ratchetrizzo said:
Noticed that the battery setting doesnt show when the battery hits 100.
(i have it set to red for low, yellow for charging and green for charged). It shows charging but when its charged it doesn't notify me it's charged and pulse green.
Don't know about red, haven't let the battey hit 15%
Everything else works so far to my knowledge
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hopefully my s22 arrives on weekend. then i will test this

Jawomo said:
Hopefully my s22 arrives on weekend. then i will test this
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Ok, I got the fully charged working but the pattern I picked got stuck on the screen around the camera after I took the cord out. So there's still some sort of bug. And the other app I (the refresh rate one) is back to being stuck at 120hz too.. All I did was charge the phone and nap and now they're both stuck

The screen edge is a little out of shape as the S22 Ultra has less rounded edge in the corner. As well the finger print position is out of alignment. That said the camera hole is spot on and I like the look of it more.

I got the update for this from the playstore today and everything is working like it should now.

nappent said:
The screen edge is a little out of shape as the S22 Ultra has less rounded edge in the corner. As well the finger print position is out of alignment. That said the camera hole is spot on and I like the look of it more.
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You can adjust this in size & position settings in aodNotify

I bought you coffee too, to me this is definitely needed. Was so used to the led on my note 9, this has me satisfied with the new purchase.

this app was worth every cent. I thought I'd have to live without some sort of notification light but this is so perfect and so customizable.

If I can kindly ask if there are any differences if one has this one as well or are they more or less the same?

dj24 said:
If I can kindly ask if there are any differences if one has this one as well or are they more or less the same?
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thet are EXACTLY the same