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A news report I read today (Thurs Jan 03, 2008) stated that a US Federal Court judge has ruled that Qualcomm must cease immediately selling 3rd generation WCDMA cellular chips that infringe on patents held by Broadcom.
The news report did NOT list which exact chips these are.
So, obvious question: does the P3650 Polaris CPU fall into the "banned for Qualcomm" category ?
Does anyone have reliable, accurate knowledge of which chips are actually affected by this ?
Hi,
I found this article:
http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/...d=HVYWDP3Q0PICWQSNDLSCKHA?articleID=205206967
It contains the following statement:
"Shipments of chipsets for devices intended for international markets were not affected by the ruling."
Regards,
hqqh
Yes, thank you for that. I'd found 2 other similar reports.
"Shipments of chipsets for devices intended for international markets were not affected by the ruling."
This is a comment from Qualcomm - perhaps Broadcom doesn't believe it !?
The situation seems critical enough. It's very hard to believe any of the reports tell all of the truth.
Read this http://www.broadcom.com/docs/press/12-31-07_Permanent_Injunction_Order.pdf
in brief the MSM7200 chipset (in the polaris) has been banned in the ruling, but as far as I know it only affects devices sold in the US
hinz said:
Read this http://www.broadcom.com/docs/press/12-31-07_Permanent_Injunction_Order.pdf
in brief the MSM7200 chipset (in the polaris) has been banned in the ruling, but as far as I know it only affects devices sold in the US
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Oh my God. I got TC only this new year and i am in US. What does that mean if it is banned.... Can any one tell me what should we do if this ban news is correct..
I don't think there will be big problems. Also considering the amount of phones the chipset is in already. Most likely Qualcomm will be using the same chipset with some modifications to avoid legal problems. Or they make a deal and pay some (a lot) of money to continue using the current chipset.
If they are wise they keep most of the stuff the same (it would cost a lot of money to design a completely new chipset). And as I've read it now, the legal problems with the chipset don't include the parts where we have problems with (video driver). Only time will tell... But so far I'm not that worried.
By the way, the ruling als states (as far as I've read) that they can keep on selling the chips to their current partners where they already have a deal with. So there won't be an early end to the HTC phones with this chipset.
a ruling in us only goes in us companys have to sue in every country to enforce patents
so one can just buy a qualcomm based phone from another country then usa have it ship'd that they cant sell them in usa dont mean feds will be comming round collecting know qualcomm owning offenders
But in what country is the HQ of Qualcomm? A quick look at wikipedia shows that's in the US. (or ofcourse I'm looking at another company, who knows )
Qualcomm (NASDAQ: QCOM) is a wireless telecommunications research and development company based in San Diego, California.
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That could make it difficult with this ruling. However they would be stupid not to find a solution because it will be difficult for them if they can't continue. They've tried legal action so far and that hasn't payed off. But I can imagine there are still other options they can explore and probably will explore as well.
RaptorRVL said:
But in what country is the HQ of Qualcomm? A quick look at wikipedia shows that's in the US. (or ofcourse I'm looking at another company, who knows )
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Nope, that's them. If you're ever in the area (lol), I'll cruise you by and show you their little complex of buildings.
hinz said:
Read this http://www.broadcom.com/docs/press/12-31-07_Permanent_Injunction_Order.pdf
in brief the MSM7200 chipset (in the polaris) has been banned in the ruling, but as far as I know it only affects devices sold in the US
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Click to collapse
Thank you for the link to the actual ruling.
Yes, I agree that the ruling is quite clear - the MSM7200 chip (in the Polaris) is subject to patent restriction, but limited to the US. (That is a puzzle in itself). Unless Qualcomm pays Broadcom the prescribed royalties for US-sold products, the Polaris as it is currently fabricated is dead-in-the water in the US.
This is not to say that Qualcomm won't appeal the ruling. My hard experience over many years is that when lawyers and judges become involved, they are the only end-winners.
Qualcomm also maintain that they have pin-to-pin equivalents that do not infringe, but the Polaris as currently manufactured does not use these alternatives.
Now I also wonder at a question I have asked in another thread - UK retailers that are currently claiming stock or "real soon now" stock (eg. Expansys UK) have also recently edited the spec list to quote ONLY 2100Mhz for UMTS in Europe.
The US and other countries (including Aus) use 850Mhz outside the cities. So if we accept that newly-arriving retail stock is limited to 2100Mhz (ie. single, not tri-band) then the UTMS capability is very limited.
And then I lose interest in the thing.
The HTC website still says HSDPA/UMTS: 2100 MHz (Europe), 850/1900 MHz (USA).
Wonder if this will change...it did for the S730 (has the same chipset as the Polaris).
kevinrirvine said:
Relax posts 11 and 12. I have the Polaris in my hand right now and it is for sure TRIBAND UMTS/HSDPA and as I like to say for our side of the Pond. I am one of the first in the USA to have this device and it does work very quickly I might add on the US 850/1900MHZ UMTS/HSDPA Band. Buy it for it is the lightest pocket pc/pda/phone on the market and very good looking too.Thanks, Kevin
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Thank you for your comment. That is exactly what I have been asking of current owners for 3-4 days now (up till now, no answer).
BUT I will not lay out $$$ until I am absolutely assured that the device as now retailed now is tri-band.
There still remains the distinct possibility that retail stock before and after this court ruling are differently configured.
ianl8888 said:
Thank you for your comment. That is exactly what I have been asking of current owners for 3-4 days now (up till now, no answer).
BUT I will not lay out $$$ until I am absolutely assured that the device as now retailed now is tri-band.
There still remains the distinct possibility that retail stock before and after this court ruling are differently configured.
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@ianl8888,
I think truthfully your making a mine out of a molehill. Htc or no oem can change the spec's after a device is released and this whole quaLcomm situation is stll filled with uncertainty and it will take possibly yrs for the courts and lawyer's to resolve. I bought mine just 3 dys ago at www.onthegosolutions.com and they are very reputABLE and I have done bsuiness with them for yrs and you will get the Polaris triband and all I assure you. No one in the country USA has stock now yet they do and it will ship the same day however you like. As for expansys UK, NEVER, REPEAT NEVER GO BY ANYHING THEY SAY OR DO FOR I HAVE DEALT WITH THEM BEFORE AND IT WAS A NIGHTMARE.
kevinrirvine said:
As for expansys UK, NEVER, REPEAT NEVER GO BY ANYHING THEY SAY OR DO FOR I HAVE DEALT WITH THEM BEFORE AND IT WAS A NIGHTMARE.
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Really? in what way? I have it on back order with them.
Side questions: Am I allowed to use my credit card for multiple back orders? I might have to place another back order with a different retailer if they are really that bad.
Abbsta said:
Really? in what way? I have it on back order with them.
Side questions: Am I allowed to use my credit card for multiple back orders? I might have to place another back order with a different retailer if they are really that bad.
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They really are that bad and it is a long and complicated story. Deal with Clove Tech and Tell them Kevin Irvine sent you and they will take very good care of your order and keep you up to date about stock pricing etc. A very honest company. Simply put, I sent several e-mails to them to cancel my order for the toshiba g900 when it was first released and they never had the courtesy of a reply back and then out of the blue stock came in and they shipped to me, charged my card illegally and to top it all off did not declare the device properly for US Customs so it was held for days until I not they had to solve the problem. Then when I finally received it I refused delivery and expansys never returned any of fed ex's calls to return the item to them and you probably get the point by now.
Yes, to your first question but be careful here for if the companies your placing your backorder's with get stock on the same day for example your in trouble. Kevin
Sorry to hear about that and I better cancel it then. Cheers for the advice Kevin.
kevinrirvine said:
@ianl8888,
I think truthfully your making a mine out of a molehill. Htc or no oem can change the spec's after a device is released and this whole quaLcomm situation is stll filled with uncertainty and it will take possibly yrs for the courts and lawyer's to resolve. I bought mine just 3 dys ago at www.onthegosolutions.com and they are very reputABLE and I have done bsuiness with them for yrs and you will get the Polaris triband and all I assure you. No one in the country USA has stock now yet they do and it will ship the same day however you like. As for expansys UK, NEVER, REPEAT NEVER GO BY ANYHING THEY SAY OR DO FOR I HAVE DEALT WITH THEM BEFORE AND IT WAS A NIGHTMARE.
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Again, thank you for your comment. I had no doubt that earlier retail supply was tri-band; I have much doubt about later supply - the Court order states "IMMEDIATE STOP ..." and turning off available UMTS frequencies is a fairly simple ROM change. That's not a molehill. Perhaps the ROM cookers here can bypass that !
The only bright spot here is the limitation to US-only sales. Purchasing a fully specced device from elsewhere bypasses that, with the downside of Warranty service also being elsewhere.
I agree with you on marketing - marketers are to be trusted even less than lawyers, if that were possible. UK retailers other than Expansys have also changed the spec list in the last 3-4 days.
Supply is still in the "real soon now" category for most of the world. So we only have to wait for "real soon now".
Lastly, I'm not panicking in the slightest. If the thing really is crippled by Qualcomm's Court-decided patent infringements, that's simply too bad. Another "thing" will turn up eventually, without the rain clouds, in response to demonstrated world-wide demand. But the impact of this Court decision will be felt - we can't yet predict how.
how to check UMTS
Hello Everyone, I am using HTC touch cruise for the last one week and it is such a cool device. got from On the go solutions. But after lots of confusions in the thread, is it any way to check what frequency of UMTS that my phone supports. I m with T-Mobile and there is no 3G. Is there any where can i check.. Please...
Mates, think waht you're discussing 'bout!
Qualcomm is forbidden to sell it's chips - since the beginning of this week!
HTC may have ordered a few 10.000th items of this chip for the polaris which are obviously already delivered.
The polaris is assembled in taiwan.
And last the devices have to be delivered all 'round the world (hee - something like santa hoohoo).
You thing, the time from delivering the chips from qc to htc and the device in the stores is less than one week?
All devices, which are sold till now are fully functional!
All other will do well too ...
Designing a mobile (any so called hightech) lasts several months. If they change the umts-functions they will to it by firmware change they won't be able to simply replace the chip. Or they leave it like it is, maybe some compensation will be payed to Broadcomm.
greetz
a happy polaris owner
http://techcrunch.com/2011/08/15/breaking-google-buys-motorola-for-12-5-billion/
Google just announced that it is acquiring Motorola Mobility. The search and online advertising company is buying the company for approximately $12.5 billion (or $40 per share), in cash. The price represents a premium of 63 percent to the closing price of Motorola Mobility shares last Friday. Google had about $39 billion in cash at last count.
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Maybe we might see some unlocked boot loaders then.
Google has lost a lot of my respect and at this point I find it unlikely they will do anything for us or even the droid 3. More likely moto knew this was comming so told us they would be unlocking devices knowing it soon would be out of there hands. I'd bet google won't even give us the code for blur.
Something tells me people these days don't even read.
Motorola Mobility remains a separate business.
This means that everything Motorola owns stays its own. I also would bet that the management won't change as well. Blur is Motorola's “image”, their UI trademark. Why would they open it?
Nothing will be out of Motorola's hands. It's just that with this acquisition, unlocking becomes something that is more likely to happen than before.
gogle need motorola for their patents to fight the patent lawsuits
I think Google are getting tired of having their butts kicked in the patent war, the only defense is a strong offence, they are just looking to increase their ability to counter MS and the other companies who are going after Android.
Having said that I seriously doubt that Google are not planning something else.
I would guess that they might well push for unlocked boot loaders, they could point to it as a reason why they are still different and not just another Apple/Ms.
I suspect they realise that with a combination of Motorola for hardware and Android for OS and tight control and integration between the 2 they could make a mainstream iPhone killer a reality quickly, and be the ones that profit from it.
To a great extent it seems to me that the manufacturers of many android devices are spoiling the potential for the OS with their marketing/attempts to be different/incompetence/lack of vision . One would have to assume that a device that has the same people in charge or the OS and hardware would kick ass.
Unfortunately the biggest winners are probably going to be the patent lawyers, sigh...
i created a thread how to unlock, works for me, check my thread
NightmareT said:
i created a thread how to unlock, works for me, check my thread
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TurboSIM/SmartSIM is unreliable at best. Come back again when people start telling you your phone goes to voice mail (if you use one). This method was discussed here and beaten to death. Please search before opening new thread next time.
Anyone have more details on this?
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...out-user-consent-or-disclosure-300362844.html
More specifically which phones?
Thanks
Dizzee said:
Anyone have more details on this?
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...out-user-consent-or-disclosure-300362844.html
More specifically which phones?
Thanks
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And that's why I'd never buy a Chinese phone! The Chinese Communist Party have their finger in everything mostly to control their own people (it could get very messy when their huge credit bubble bursts, but that's another story). But they would also leverage back doors for industrial espionage. Other governments should ban all their staff as well as their military from using such phones! Big multinationals too?
The worry for me is how much security testing are the likes of Google doing who are getting their phones like the Pixel built by Chinese companies? Are there any Chinese made chips or alterations made to the Google design at the factory? Is anyone checking? Probably not. Is Pixel affected? Why are they telling Google but not other large internet players? Makes me think it could be related to Google products. A very scary thought!
Those holes in the Baidu apk still have not been fully patched, that suggests to me it's state sponsored hacking! And so many apps like ES File Exporer had it, many still do. I just find it very strange that so many people go nuts about Google, Apple, Microsoft gathering personal data and yet stuff like the Baidu apk are hardly mentioned, this well be the same no doubt!
Rant over! Now to try and find some more details.
---------- Post added at 07:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:45 AM ----------
Blu R1 is one device affected
https://arstechnica.com/security/20...oor-on-hundreds-of-thousands-of-phones/?amp=1
Their lawyer says "they are a private company who made a mistake" wtf!!!
---------- Post added at 08:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:52 AM ----------
LOL, we'd never do anything that blah blah
http://blog.gsmarena.com/adups-responds-fota-misbehavior-micromax-smartphones/
....just sniff the traffic of ES File Explorer fir a while and this chinese story just gets a few more million participants
Some with good Android security abilities, pkease check out this thread. com.adups.patch on my phone this morning.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/gen...oming-mtk6737-64bit-t3385210/page39?nocache=1
IronRoo said:
And that's why I'd never buy a Chinese phone! The Chinese Communist Party have their finger in everything mostly to control their own people (it could get very messy when their huge credit bubble bursts, but that's another story). But they would also leverage back doors for industrial espionage. Other governments should ban all their staff as well as their military from using such phones! Big multinationals too?
The worry for me is how much security testing are the likes of Google doing who are getting their phones like the Pixel built by Chinese companies? Are there any Chinese made chips or alterations made to the Google design at the factory? Is anyone checking? Probably not. Is Pixel affected? Why are they telling Google but not other large internet players? Makes me think it could be related to Google products. A very scary thought!
Those holes in the Baidu apk still have not been fully patched, that suggests to me it's state sponsored hacking! And so many apps like ES File Exporer had it, many still do. I just find it very strange that so many people go nuts about Google, Apple, Microsoft gathering personal data and yet stuff like the Baidu apk are hardly mentioned, this well be the same no doubt!
Rant over! Now to try and find some more details.
---------- Post added at 07:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:45 AM ----------
Blu R1 is one device affected
https://arstechnica.com/security/20...oor-on-hundreds-of-thousands-of-phones/?amp=1
Their lawyer says "they are a private company who made a mistake" wtf!!!
---------- Post added at 08:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:52 AM ----------
LOL, we'd never do anything that blah blah
http://blog.gsmarena.com/adups-responds-fota-misbehavior-micromax-smartphones/
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The difference is that those apps are made by and for the people of China where personal privacy is not a factor. Of people outside of China decide to use these apps then it is up to them to be smarter about what they install.
zelendel said:
The difference is that those apps are made by and for the people of China where personal privacy is not a factor. Of people outside of China decide to use these apps then it is up to them to be smarter about what they install.
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The Chinese are doing exactly the same things their Western counterparts are. So, a good starting point is: if you live in the West, buy a smart phone with a Chinese chip. If you are in China, buy Qualcomm...
optimumpro said:
The Chinese are doing exactly the same things their Western counterparts are. So, a good starting point is: if you live in the West, buy a smart phone with a Chinese chip. If you are in China, buy Qualcomm...
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Lol
NOT a bad idea at all ...
optimumpro said:
The Chinese are doing exactly the same things their Western counterparts are. So, a good starting point is: if you live in the West, buy a smart phone with a Chinese chip. If you are in China, buy Qualcomm...
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Not even close. IF that is what they have to believing then well all I can say is look into it yourself. Also buying a China based device in the west doesnt always work out as many security protocols have china devices blocked for things like GPS and connection to some satellites. Some countries even have out right bans on where and if someone can own a china based device. Like my job. OEM like Xiaomi are banned from ownership or use. Hwauwei was also on that list for many years, to the point that they couldnt even connect to a gps sat if the device was in the states.
zelendel said:
Not even close. IF that is what they have to believing then well all I can say is look into it yourself. Also buying a China based device in the west doesnt always work out as many security protocols have china devices blocked for things like GPS and connection to some satellites. Some countries even have out right bans on where and if someone can own a china based device. Like my job. OEM like Xiaomi are banned from ownership or use. Hwauwei was also on that list for many years, to the point that they couldnt even connect to a gps sat if the device was in the states.
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I didn't say to buy a Chinese branded device, but a device that has a Chinese chip. That's a big difference. Also, those restrictions are software based and could be reversed.
Xiaomi and Huawei are banned in some places in the US (mostly in companies that cooperate well with the US 3-letter-agencies), because they know that Chinese designed chips are "provisioned" (read backdoored) to be exposed to Chinese intelligence, while Qualcomm et all have US addresses. So, from the point of view of a privacy oriented Western consumer, it makes sense to have a device with a Chinese chip and certainly Not devices branded for your Country...
optimumpro said:
I didn't say to buy a Chinese branded device, but a device that has a Chinese chip. That's a big difference. Also, those restrictions are software based and could be reversed.
Xiaomi and Huawei are banned in some places in the US (mostly in companies that cooperate well with the US 3-letter-agencies), because they know that Chinese designed chips are "provisioned" (read backdoored) to be exposed to Chinese intelligence, while Qualcomm et all have US addresses. So, from the point of view of a privacy oriented Western consumer, it makes sense to have a device with a Chinese chip and certainly Not devices branded for your Country...
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So you would rather a foreign country have the info then your own?
Not just them. As an example. The town I live in is home to a nuclear missile silo. Most business in the town have banned device lists and both of those are on it. You are right it could be reversed but it won't happen. Mainly not now with the current issues with China. I bet we start to see major import restrictions. Heck Trump already plans on increasing taxes for American companies that have outsourced to other countries. He wants to cut as many ties with China as he can and removing manufacturering plants from American companies will go along way.
Privacy is a joke these days to be flat out honest. People scream about privacy yet they post their public lives all over the Internet, they give their privacy away to companies like FB, Google and all the others.
zelendel said:
So you would rather a foreign country have the info then your own?
Not just them. As an example. The town I live in is home to a nuclear missile silo. Most business in the town have banned device lists and both of those are on it. You are right it could be reversed but it won't happen. Mainly not now with the current issues with China. I bet we start to see major import restrictions. Heck Trump already plans on increasing taxes for American companies that have outsourced to other countries. He wants to cut as many ties with China as he can and removing manufacturering plants from American companies will go along way.
Privacy is a joke these days to be flat out honest. People scream about privacy yet they post their public lives all over the Internet, they give their privacy away to companies like FB, Google and all the others.
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I agree that privacy is a joke for those who post their lives on social networks and I am not talking about them. I am talking strictly about hardware backdoors (the ones hidden inside the chip). So, if I have no privacy, live in the West and know that my data is going somewhere, then I would rather it go to Chinese agencies, as opposed to domestic ones.. Or if I live in China, I would go out of my way to buy a phone with a US designed chip...
optimumpro said:
I agree that privacy is a joke for those who post their lives on social networks and I am not talking about them. I am talking strictly about hardware backdoors (the ones hidden inside the chip). So, if I have no privacy, live in the West and know that my data is going somewhere, then I would rather it go to Chinese agencies, as opposed to domestic ones.. Or if I live in China, I would go out of my way to buy a phone with a US designed chip...
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That makes no sense really. You would rather a communist country monitor your data instead of your own that does it already anyway and wouldnt be learning anything they dont already know. You would be amazed at how much the US gov really knows about the average person. All it really takes is less then a day to learn every single thing about a person without ever touching their device. I mean heck Windows has more backdoors then a porn flick, and if people think they cant get into a linux setup as well then.......Here is my stance. My country does monitor me, I know this, I accept it. Its part of living in the country. Now do I want some other country knowing what I do? No not really.
zelendel said:
That makes no sense really. You would rather a communist country monitor your data instead of your own that does it already anyway and wouldnt be learning anything they dont already know. You would be amazed at how much the US gov really knows about the average person. All it really takes is less then a day to learn every single thing about a person without ever touching their device. I mean heck Windows has more backdoors then a porn flick, and if people think they cant get into a linux setup as well then.......Here is my stance. My country does monitor me, I know this, I accept it. Its part of living in the country. Now do I want some other country knowing what I do? No not really.
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I disagree. I don't use social networks and the last time I used Windows was at least 10 years ago. I use software that I compile myself (including Linux). So, if my country is monitoring me, they have somewhat limited info. Also, I don't think China has any interest in monitoring me, as a private citizen who lives in the West. I know my country monitors everybody, but I don't accept it and to the extent I am able, I make their "work" more difficult...
There is an ongoing thread at the Official Flash Community about a possible "spyware" embedded in the firmware of TCL / Alcatel Flash Plus 2 and Flash 2 smartphones.
A local TV station might have also picked up on the story and is now following this as well.
You guys might want to check this out:
Code:
hxxp://community.flash3c.com/t/fp2-secretly-phoning-home-to-china-server/13708
Seriously though, is there still any Android smartphone manufacturer that we can still trust aside from Samsung?
Yes, Adups has already been found doing this before (see previous thread about Blu phone etc), they claim it's nothing to worry about but in my opinion it's is (especially for some people eg my sisters work duties has put her up against Chinese SOE's) due to the data sent & the identifying data & ability to make changes without user knowledge and possible the tentacles of the CCP government reaching into the company if it so chooses it could then monitor her & put her and her colleagues at risk given some of the dodgy countries she's had to go to.
Some of the guys are getting worked up about this on the crackberry forum as TCL is Blackberry's subby (though the thread quickly veered off to Blackberry hardware, so unrelated to the Adups issue).
http://forums.crackberry.com/genera...ding-customers-data-china-1095845/index4.html
FWIW, I agree with Sorinv & DaFoxGrey that it's possible (well to some degree) without Blackberry noticing as they would not test every phone for this sort of thing from every production run, and it may not trigger any connection unless under specific conditions. It could be done via a compromised employee flashing dodgy firmware or amended wafer negative when running a batch, though would be hard to pull off even by government agents. But that's all on a whole different level to the Adups issue, besides I don't think Blackberry phones have that app or Baidu apks etc so for them it should be a none issue, but for Chinese phones .......
As for trusting Samsung ..... they are part of a huge conglomerate with close links to an opaque government who are susceptible to influences of a few powerful families & others, so they would not be immune. Nor their employees being immune to blackmail to make changes. That said they are who I have put my faith in for the time being. At the end of the day we all have to trust someone, as I'm sure you are aware.
Trust is a matter of perspective. Most devices from China oem are expected to have e this as their government requires it to monitor its citizens. Which is completely legal there and why most devices from China are banned to be owned by US government employees. It's just the way it is.
If trust us a big thing then the last thing you should be buying is an oem device. Get a nexus and then you can see every bit of code you put into your device.
My DM with a T-Mobile rep.
That was a waste since it was a known fact already. Wish you had asked them what bands the phone supports since they don't list them all anywhere. AT&T lists them all on the website and looks like the best choice if T-Mobile won't provide that info
lightninbug said:
My DM with a T-Mobile rep.
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You said this...
I wouldn't be so sure until it's proven.
Finally, the Exynos 8895 also includes what Samsung is calling an “enhanced security sub-system with a separate security processing unit” for use with user authentication, mobile payments, and the like. Based on Samsung’s description this sounds a heck of a lot like Apple’s Secure Enclave, which would be a very welcome development, as in Apple’s case it has made their phones a lot harder to break into.
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http://www.anandtech.com/show/11149/samsung-announces-exynos-8895-soc-10nm
In reading your exchange with T-Mobile it came across fairly righteous - "it's my phone and I should be able to do what I want with it." Knowing T-Mobile's phones have locked bootloaders it's your choice whether to buy them or, like the CSR said in your exchange, find a phone that suits you and "bring your own." Trying to get them to reverse a security policy that helps far more people than it hurts seems like a pretty futile exercise.
The value of the modding community to a company with 52+M wireless subscribers is pretty low. There are 336K active (used the site in the past 30 days) XDA members. If every XDA member was on T-Mobile and moved to another carrier in protest that's less than 1/10 of 1% of T-Mobile's subscriber base. Samsung, the carriers, and even Google are far more interested in national and global corporate accounts and those accounts demand security. That's why Knox, locked bootloaders, and what's mentioned as coming in the above article exist. Companies like OnePlus, Oppo, and HTC aren't ever going to land big corporate and government contracts where Samsung can and does. That's why carriers and Samsung lock their bootloaders. The company I work for only allows iPhones to connect to Exchange. We Android users have to use some kludged containerized e-mail product that doesn't integrate with the rest of the phone and even then its only available on current model Samsung phones. It is what it is.
We'll get the engineering firmware leaked and have root anyways. Our little way of protesting.
ethanscooter said:
We'll get the engineering firmware leaked and have root anyways. Our little way of protesting.
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Maybe I'll wait for the Pixel2 this fall. I know that will be unlocked, easily rootable, and supported by the dev community. There are few options for the S7 now and I expect much the same for the S8. My last Samsung phone was a Note 3 and the dev support was limited. I love my current Nexus 6 so I am in no rush.
almahix said:
Maybe I'll wait for the Pixel2 this fall. I know that will be unlocked, easily rootable, and supported by the dev community. There are few options for the S7 now and I expect much the same for the S8. My last Samsung phone was a Note 3 and the dev support was limited. I love my current Nexus 6 so I am in no rush.
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This might be a good plan...How big is the screen supposed to be?
954wrecker said:
That was a waste since it was a known fact already. Wish you had asked them what bands the phone supports since they don't list them all anywhere. AT&T lists them all on the website and looks like the best choice if T-Mobile won't provide that info
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Here you go. It's been listed a day after since preorders started.
http://www.samsung.com/us/support/owners/product/galaxy-s8-plus-t-mobile
2G GSM: GSM850,GSM900,DCS1800,PCS1900
3G UMTS: B1(2100),B2(1900),B4(AWS),B5(850)
3G TD-SCDMA: B34(2010),B39(1880)
4G FDD LTE: B1(2100),B2(1900),B3(1800),B4(AWS),B5(850),B7(2600),B8(900),B12(700),B13(700),B18(800),B19(800),B20(800),B25(1900),B26(800),B66(AWS-3)
4G TDD LTE: B38(2600),B39(1900),B40(2300),B41(2500)
BarryH_GEG said:
You said this...
I wouldn't be so sure until it's proven.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/11149/samsung-announces-exynos-8895-soc-10nm[/I]
In reading your exchange with T-Mobile it came across fairly righteous - "it's my phone and I should be able to do what I want with it." Knowing T-Mobile's phones have locked bootloaders it's your choice whether to buy them or, like the CSR said in your exchange, find a phone that suits you and "bring your own." Trying to get them to reverse a security policy that helps far more people than it hurts seems like a pretty futile exercise.
The value of the modding community to a company with 52+M wireless subscribers is pretty low. There are 336K active (used the site in the past 30 days) XDA members. If every XDA member was on T-Mobile and moved to another carrier in protest that's less than 1/10 of 1% of T-Mobile's subscriber base. Samsung, the carriers, and even Google are far more interested in national and global corporate accounts and those accounts demand security. That's why Knox, locked bootloaders, and what's mentioned as coming in the above article exist. Companies like OnePlus, Oppo, and HTC aren't ever going to land big corporate and government contracts where Samsung can and does. That's why carriers and Samsung lock their bootloaders. The company I work for only allows iPhones to connect to Exchange. We Android users have to use some kludged containerized e-mail product that doesn't integrate with the rest of the phone and even then its only available on current model Samsung phones. It is what it is.
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I really don't agree with this. There is no reason they couldn't design a phone to be secure and able to flash other operating systems. Windows for example can use bitlocker, but that doesn't stop you from formating the drive out and install linux. I agree if you're leasing that phone the leasing company has the right to protect its asset, but if you buy it outright, you should be able to do what you want with it. Even if you had to send the phone to Samsung, you should have some avenue to unlock a device you own.
YellowGTO said:
I really don't agree with this. There is no reason they couldn't design a phone to be secure and able to flash other operating systems. Windows for example can use bitlocker, but that doesn't stop you from formating the drive out and install linux. I agree if you're leasing that phone the leasing company has the right to protect its asset, but if you buy it outright, you should be able to do what you want with it. Even if you had to send the phone to Samsung, you should have some avenue to unlock a device you own.
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That's the XDA spirit!
YellowGTO said:
I really don't agree with this. There is no reason they couldn't design a phone to be secure and able to flash other operating systems. Windows for example can use bitlocker, but that doesn't stop you from formating the drive out and install linux. I agree if you're leasing that phone the leasing company has the right to protect its asset, but if you buy it outright, you should be able to do what you want with it. Even if you had to send the phone to Samsung, you should have some avenue to unlock a device you own.
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Kind of the tail (the single digit percentage of people wanting to root their phones regardless of the security implications) wagging the dog (everyone else concerned about security and 100% of companies wanting to protect their business data). Android security is so totally bankrupt that the company I work for won't allow Android devices to connect to Exchange. While iPhone users have full EAS access I'm stuck using OWA. I personally hope Samsung goes beyond KNOX to secure their phones so I and others like me can get real access to company assets rather than dealing with kluges and work-arounds. I'm sure that's why Samsung's doing more than Google to secure their phones. People who want unlocked bootloaders and root access have plenty of options other than Samsung so it's not like anyone's being harmed.
BarryH_GEG said:
Kind of the tail (the single digit percentage of people wanting to root their phones regardless of the security implications) wagging the dog (everyone else concerned about security and 100% of companies wanting to protect their business data). Android security is so totally bankrupt that the company I work for won't allow Android devices to connect to Exchange. While iPhone users have full EAS access I'm stuck using OWA. I personally hope Samsung goes beyond KNOX to secure their phones so I and others like me can get real access to company assets rather than dealing with kluges and work-arounds. I'm sure that's why Samsung's doing more than Google to secure their phones. People who want unlocked bootloaders and root access have plenty of options other than Samsung so it's not like anyone's being harmed.
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Samsung can add anything they want to secure the phones. Doesn't change the fact that you should be able to unlock the phone via some service. Konx is already the highest rated mass produced enterprise software (http://www.informationweek.com/mobi...eats-ios-android-gartner-finds/d/d-id/1325145), and it does just fine being rooted. It's a very expensive device that pretty much becomes garbage after a few years. On the other hand, I still use my touch pro tablet that runs 7.1.2. Not to mention if it were illegal to lock phones, shops would pop up overnight to upgrade peoples dated phones to the latest and greatest.
YellowGTO said:
Samsung can add anything they want to secure the phones. Doesn't change the fact that you should be able to unlock the phone via some service. Konx is already the highest rated mass produced enterprise software (http://www.informationweek.com/mobi...eats-ios-android-gartner-finds/d/d-id/1325145), and it does just fine being rooted. It's a very expensive device that pretty much becomes garbage after a few years. On the other hand, I still use my touch pro tablet that runs 7.1.2. Not to mention if it were illegal to lock phones, shops would pop up overnight to upgrade peoples dated phones to the latest and greatest.
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An analogy. You want a light weight performance oriented two seat convertible - a "true sports car." But you also want luxury appointments and an abundance of high-end optional equipment and a prestigious brand. Do you: A) buy something that meets your first set of requirements like a Mazda MX-5, or B) go to BMW forums and bash BMW and complain to fellow forum members that the Z4 isn't a "true sports car" because of its weight and price? Or worse, buy it and complain after the fact how horrible BMW is because of their product choices? It's an example of not being able to have your cake and eat it too. Mazda offers what they offer and BMW offers what they offer. You don't get to tell either to change their product strategy. You do get to vote with your wallet.
Samsung's got the most rigid Android security and seems to be ratcheting it up even further with a h/w security coprocessor in Exynos 8895. OnePlus, HTC, Huawei, Pixel/Nexus are the most liberal. It seems ludicrous to pick a Samsung phone for modding when clearly the product isn't the best choice. The other mentioned brands are a far better choice. You can't have your cake and eat it too. That's just the way life works.
If you believe an unlocked bootloader and rooting are a God given right since it's "your phone and you paid for it" the solutions simple. Don't buy a Samsung phone. And if you do, lamenting Samsung's security restrictions here after the fact just reinforce you shouldn't have bought the phone in the first place.
BarryH_GEG said:
An analogy. You want a light weight performance oriented two seat convertible - a "true sports car." But you also want luxury appointments and an abundance of high-end optional equipment and a prestigious brand. Do you: A) buy something that meets your first set of requirements like a Mazda MX-5, or B) go to BMW forums and bash BMW and complain to fellow forum members that the Z4 isn't a "true sports car" because of its weight and price? Or worse, buy it and complain after the fact how horrible BMW is because of their product choices? It's an example of not being able to have your cake and eat it too. Mazda offers what they offer and BMW offers what they offer. You don't get to tell either to change their product strategy. You do get to vote with your wallet.
Samsung's got the most rigid Android security and seems to be ratcheting it up even further with a h/w security coprocessor in Exynos 8895. OnePlus, HTC, Huawei, Pixel/Nexus are the most liberal. It seems ludicrous to pick a Samsung phone for modding when clearly the product isn't the best choice. The other mentioned brands are a far better choice. You can't have your cake and eat it too. That's just the way life works.
If you believe an unlocked bootloader and rooting are a God given right since it's "your phone and you paid for it" the solutions simple. Don't buy a Samsung phone. And if you do, lamenting Samsung's security restrictions here after the fact just reinforce you shouldn't have bought the phone in the first place.
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Very well said and the exact reason after my note 3 and note 5 I left for OnePlus
BarryH_GEG said:
An analogy. You want a light weight performance oriented two seat convertible - a "true sports car." But you also want luxury appointments and an abundance of high-end optional equipment and a prestigious brand. Do you: A) buy something that meets your first set of requirements like a Mazda MX-5, or B) go to BMW forums and bash BMW and complain to fellow forum members that the Z4 isn't a "true sports car" because of its weight and price? Or worse, buy it and complain after the fact how horrible BMW is because of their product choices? It's an example of not being able to have your cake and eat it too. Mazda offers what they offer and BMW offers what they offer. You don't get to tell either to change their product strategy. You do get to vote with your wallet.
Samsung's got the most rigid Android security and seems to be ratcheting it up even further with a h/w security coprocessor in Exynos 8895. OnePlus, HTC, Huawei, Pixel/Nexus are the most liberal. It seems ludicrous to pick a Samsung phone for modding when clearly the product isn't the best choice. The other mentioned brands are a far better choice. You can't have your cake and eat it too. That's just the way life works.
If you believe an unlocked bootloader and rooting are a God given right since it's "your phone and you paid for it" the solutions simple. Don't buy a Samsung phone. And if you do, lamenting Samsung's security restrictions here after the fact just reinforce you shouldn't have bought the phone in the first place.
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The analogy is terrible. And the reason I use Samsung is for Knox. I'm not looking for root myself (at this moment). A better and simpler analogy would be you buy a miata, later on in life you want to do an LS1 swap but Mazada has welded the engine bay shut. There just isn't a reason for it. being able to change the operating system has no bearing on the security of a device. If they want to stop you from rooting Samsungs version of android fine, encrypt the disk, whatever they want. I should still be able to wipe out the partition and install something like Ubuntu phone (I know dead).