A news report I read today (Thurs Jan 03, 2008) stated that a US Federal Court judge has ruled that Qualcomm must cease immediately selling 3rd generation WCDMA cellular chips that infringe on patents held by Broadcom.
The news report did NOT list which exact chips these are.
So, obvious question: does the P3650 Polaris CPU fall into the "banned for Qualcomm" category ?
Does anyone have reliable, accurate knowledge of which chips are actually affected by this ?
Hi,
I found this article:
http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/...d=HVYWDP3Q0PICWQSNDLSCKHA?articleID=205206967
It contains the following statement:
"Shipments of chipsets for devices intended for international markets were not affected by the ruling."
Regards,
hqqh
Yes, thank you for that. I'd found 2 other similar reports.
"Shipments of chipsets for devices intended for international markets were not affected by the ruling."
This is a comment from Qualcomm - perhaps Broadcom doesn't believe it !?
The situation seems critical enough. It's very hard to believe any of the reports tell all of the truth.
Read this http://www.broadcom.com/docs/press/12-31-07_Permanent_Injunction_Order.pdf
in brief the MSM7200 chipset (in the polaris) has been banned in the ruling, but as far as I know it only affects devices sold in the US
hinz said:
Read this http://www.broadcom.com/docs/press/12-31-07_Permanent_Injunction_Order.pdf
in brief the MSM7200 chipset (in the polaris) has been banned in the ruling, but as far as I know it only affects devices sold in the US
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Oh my God. I got TC only this new year and i am in US. What does that mean if it is banned.... Can any one tell me what should we do if this ban news is correct..
I don't think there will be big problems. Also considering the amount of phones the chipset is in already. Most likely Qualcomm will be using the same chipset with some modifications to avoid legal problems. Or they make a deal and pay some (a lot) of money to continue using the current chipset.
If they are wise they keep most of the stuff the same (it would cost a lot of money to design a completely new chipset). And as I've read it now, the legal problems with the chipset don't include the parts where we have problems with (video driver). Only time will tell... But so far I'm not that worried.
By the way, the ruling als states (as far as I've read) that they can keep on selling the chips to their current partners where they already have a deal with. So there won't be an early end to the HTC phones with this chipset.
a ruling in us only goes in us companys have to sue in every country to enforce patents
so one can just buy a qualcomm based phone from another country then usa have it ship'd that they cant sell them in usa dont mean feds will be comming round collecting know qualcomm owning offenders
But in what country is the HQ of Qualcomm? A quick look at wikipedia shows that's in the US. (or ofcourse I'm looking at another company, who knows )
Qualcomm (NASDAQ: QCOM) is a wireless telecommunications research and development company based in San Diego, California.
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That could make it difficult with this ruling. However they would be stupid not to find a solution because it will be difficult for them if they can't continue. They've tried legal action so far and that hasn't payed off. But I can imagine there are still other options they can explore and probably will explore as well.
RaptorRVL said:
But in what country is the HQ of Qualcomm? A quick look at wikipedia shows that's in the US. (or ofcourse I'm looking at another company, who knows )
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Nope, that's them. If you're ever in the area (lol), I'll cruise you by and show you their little complex of buildings.
hinz said:
Read this http://www.broadcom.com/docs/press/12-31-07_Permanent_Injunction_Order.pdf
in brief the MSM7200 chipset (in the polaris) has been banned in the ruling, but as far as I know it only affects devices sold in the US
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Thank you for the link to the actual ruling.
Yes, I agree that the ruling is quite clear - the MSM7200 chip (in the Polaris) is subject to patent restriction, but limited to the US. (That is a puzzle in itself). Unless Qualcomm pays Broadcom the prescribed royalties for US-sold products, the Polaris as it is currently fabricated is dead-in-the water in the US.
This is not to say that Qualcomm won't appeal the ruling. My hard experience over many years is that when lawyers and judges become involved, they are the only end-winners.
Qualcomm also maintain that they have pin-to-pin equivalents that do not infringe, but the Polaris as currently manufactured does not use these alternatives.
Now I also wonder at a question I have asked in another thread - UK retailers that are currently claiming stock or "real soon now" stock (eg. Expansys UK) have also recently edited the spec list to quote ONLY 2100Mhz for UMTS in Europe.
The US and other countries (including Aus) use 850Mhz outside the cities. So if we accept that newly-arriving retail stock is limited to 2100Mhz (ie. single, not tri-band) then the UTMS capability is very limited.
And then I lose interest in the thing.
The HTC website still says HSDPA/UMTS: 2100 MHz (Europe), 850/1900 MHz (USA).
Wonder if this will change...it did for the S730 (has the same chipset as the Polaris).
kevinrirvine said:
Relax posts 11 and 12. I have the Polaris in my hand right now and it is for sure TRIBAND UMTS/HSDPA and as I like to say for our side of the Pond. I am one of the first in the USA to have this device and it does work very quickly I might add on the US 850/1900MHZ UMTS/HSDPA Band. Buy it for it is the lightest pocket pc/pda/phone on the market and very good looking too.Thanks, Kevin
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Thank you for your comment. That is exactly what I have been asking of current owners for 3-4 days now (up till now, no answer).
BUT I will not lay out $$$ until I am absolutely assured that the device as now retailed now is tri-band.
There still remains the distinct possibility that retail stock before and after this court ruling are differently configured.
ianl8888 said:
Thank you for your comment. That is exactly what I have been asking of current owners for 3-4 days now (up till now, no answer).
BUT I will not lay out $$$ until I am absolutely assured that the device as now retailed now is tri-band.
There still remains the distinct possibility that retail stock before and after this court ruling are differently configured.
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@ianl8888,
I think truthfully your making a mine out of a molehill. Htc or no oem can change the spec's after a device is released and this whole quaLcomm situation is stll filled with uncertainty and it will take possibly yrs for the courts and lawyer's to resolve. I bought mine just 3 dys ago at www.onthegosolutions.com and they are very reputABLE and I have done bsuiness with them for yrs and you will get the Polaris triband and all I assure you. No one in the country USA has stock now yet they do and it will ship the same day however you like. As for expansys UK, NEVER, REPEAT NEVER GO BY ANYHING THEY SAY OR DO FOR I HAVE DEALT WITH THEM BEFORE AND IT WAS A NIGHTMARE.
kevinrirvine said:
As for expansys UK, NEVER, REPEAT NEVER GO BY ANYHING THEY SAY OR DO FOR I HAVE DEALT WITH THEM BEFORE AND IT WAS A NIGHTMARE.
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Really? in what way? I have it on back order with them.
Side questions: Am I allowed to use my credit card for multiple back orders? I might have to place another back order with a different retailer if they are really that bad.
Abbsta said:
Really? in what way? I have it on back order with them.
Side questions: Am I allowed to use my credit card for multiple back orders? I might have to place another back order with a different retailer if they are really that bad.
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They really are that bad and it is a long and complicated story. Deal with Clove Tech and Tell them Kevin Irvine sent you and they will take very good care of your order and keep you up to date about stock pricing etc. A very honest company. Simply put, I sent several e-mails to them to cancel my order for the toshiba g900 when it was first released and they never had the courtesy of a reply back and then out of the blue stock came in and they shipped to me, charged my card illegally and to top it all off did not declare the device properly for US Customs so it was held for days until I not they had to solve the problem. Then when I finally received it I refused delivery and expansys never returned any of fed ex's calls to return the item to them and you probably get the point by now.
Yes, to your first question but be careful here for if the companies your placing your backorder's with get stock on the same day for example your in trouble. Kevin
Sorry to hear about that and I better cancel it then. Cheers for the advice Kevin.
kevinrirvine said:
@ianl8888,
I think truthfully your making a mine out of a molehill. Htc or no oem can change the spec's after a device is released and this whole quaLcomm situation is stll filled with uncertainty and it will take possibly yrs for the courts and lawyer's to resolve. I bought mine just 3 dys ago at www.onthegosolutions.com and they are very reputABLE and I have done bsuiness with them for yrs and you will get the Polaris triband and all I assure you. No one in the country USA has stock now yet they do and it will ship the same day however you like. As for expansys UK, NEVER, REPEAT NEVER GO BY ANYHING THEY SAY OR DO FOR I HAVE DEALT WITH THEM BEFORE AND IT WAS A NIGHTMARE.
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Again, thank you for your comment. I had no doubt that earlier retail supply was tri-band; I have much doubt about later supply - the Court order states "IMMEDIATE STOP ..." and turning off available UMTS frequencies is a fairly simple ROM change. That's not a molehill. Perhaps the ROM cookers here can bypass that !
The only bright spot here is the limitation to US-only sales. Purchasing a fully specced device from elsewhere bypasses that, with the downside of Warranty service also being elsewhere.
I agree with you on marketing - marketers are to be trusted even less than lawyers, if that were possible. UK retailers other than Expansys have also changed the spec list in the last 3-4 days.
Supply is still in the "real soon now" category for most of the world. So we only have to wait for "real soon now".
Lastly, I'm not panicking in the slightest. If the thing really is crippled by Qualcomm's Court-decided patent infringements, that's simply too bad. Another "thing" will turn up eventually, without the rain clouds, in response to demonstrated world-wide demand. But the impact of this Court decision will be felt - we can't yet predict how.
how to check UMTS
Hello Everyone, I am using HTC touch cruise for the last one week and it is such a cool device. got from On the go solutions. But after lots of confusions in the thread, is it any way to check what frequency of UMTS that my phone supports. I m with T-Mobile and there is no 3G. Is there any where can i check.. Please...
Mates, think waht you're discussing 'bout!
Qualcomm is forbidden to sell it's chips - since the beginning of this week!
HTC may have ordered a few 10.000th items of this chip for the polaris which are obviously already delivered.
The polaris is assembled in taiwan.
And last the devices have to be delivered all 'round the world (hee - something like santa hoohoo).
You thing, the time from delivering the chips from qc to htc and the device in the stores is less than one week?
All devices, which are sold till now are fully functional!
All other will do well too ...
Designing a mobile (any so called hightech) lasts several months. If they change the umts-functions they will to it by firmware change they won't be able to simply replace the chip. Or they leave it like it is, maybe some compensation will be payed to Broadcomm.
greetz
a happy polaris owner
Related
Quote from http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/08/business/08phone-web.html
WASHINGTON, June 7 (AP) — A federal agency has banned imports of new cellphones made with Qualcomm semiconductors because the chips violate a patent held by Broadcom.
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Seems it will cause so much trouble for HTC and O2 since many of their phones uses the Qualcomm chip.
Oh no! Bye-bye HTC Kaiser
But wait, there is no problem in Europe (yet).
Bye-Bye HTC Kaiser in US
gogol said:
Oh no! Bye-bye HTC Kaiser
But wait, there is no problem in Europe (yet).
Bye-Bye HTC Kaiser in US
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Steve Jobs still has influence and a good lobby in the Usa ;-)
I am not too familiar with US law, but the article said:
A) This decision pissed off a lot of very big companies: Motorola, Samsung, AT&T, Version and more.
B) There is still a chance to overturn it:
The White House now has 60 days to approve or overturn the ruling.
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So there will be enormous pressure to allow the chips or for Broadcom to settle.
Isnt it more likely that:
A)the judging be overruled be over-ruled by an out of court settlement due to pressure by the carriers
or
B) Broadcom would license it to Qualcomm for a fee (ofcourse)
Im pretty sure the article didnt conclude that there was a definate ban yet.
Heijdemann said:
Steve Jobs still has influence and a good lobby in the Usa ;-)
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So, I'm not the only one that thought of this...not really seriously, but the thought did cross my mind .
Well thats just a bunch of crap. Well hopefully they settle this soon.
I would think B would be most likely and a reasonable choice, Apple did that for the iphone didn't it? Anyways, I'm in Canada, not US, w00t.
i just read on the net that qualcomm has got a very big legal problem and can not make certain chipsets any more.
Also the tytn 2 was mentioned to have this chipset.
So if i am not mistaking this means htc has to find an other chipset and what will happen with the support for the kaiser??
if i put this message in the wrong place sorry but i thought it was maybe important
if this is true, then all current kaiser owners are sol. good thing we have the xda forums and all the hard working people trying to create a fix.
This has already been brought up. Unfortunately, the injunction that Broadcomm has prohibits Qualcomm from distributing and even servicing/replacing devices with said chip(s). Currently Qualcomm R&D are developing a work around for the current chip architecture to eliminate the infringing Broadcomm components with out having to completely redesign the chip.
Not true on the selling or servicing. They can for the devices out the door per the royalty agreement ordered in Fed. Court. They can also keep selling it to existing cutomers till jan. 1 of 2009.
GSLEON3 said:
Not true on the selling or servicing. They can for the devices out the door per the royalty agreement ordered in Fed. Court. They can also keep selling it to existing cutomers till jan. 1 of 2009.
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Really? I thought that they could continue to sell until the end of this month. Maybe I just read it wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.
UPDATE: Just reread the official injunction. GSLEON3, you are correct. I humbly bow out.
If anyone is curious to the official ruling and details, you can get it here. <----This links to a .pdf file
And do you think I will be able to put Android on it? Easily? Without crossing wires or something?
Or should I just be happy with the phone and stop trying to get the newest thing?
Im sure there is some patent lawsuit happening that blocks devices on a qualcomm chipset from being sold in the US! if it's true that would mean no official Touch Pro for you guys!
There will be a US version. Just need to be paitent. They would be FOOLS not to send it to the US. HTC like $$ just like every other company!
Raspster said:
There will be a US version. Just need to be paitent. They would be FOOLS not to send it to the US. HTC like $$ just like every other company!
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Htc is not the problem, of course they want to sell their product, the problem is US law, broadcom are blocking qualcomm embedded chips
ice_coffee said:
Htc is not the problem, of course they want to sell their product, the problem is US law, broadcom are blocking qualcomm embedded chips
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wait a min, doesnt the SE XPERIA X1 use a Qualcomm chip, its supposed to come out with AT&T, does this mean that its not coming state side?
Kaiser uses the Qualcomm chip and IS available in the US. The real problem is the 3G iPhone which has to be released first.
I don't claim to know all the details, you guys will have to search for info, all I know is that there is a patent spat between broadcom and qualcomm, and that there has (quite recently) been an injunction blocking qualcomm in the US (I believe the Kaiser was released before the injunction) it is a bit like how sony were blocked from putting vibrate into their PS3 controllers until they came to an agreement with the patent holder.
joedoe said:
Kaiser uses the Qualcomm chip and IS available in the US. The real problem is the 3G iPhone which has to be released first.
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Bingo! Truth of the matter is that AT&T doesn't want anything to intefere with the iPhone sales. Give it a few months after iPhone launch and you might see it.
Meaning, the phone is popular with developers, as it is easy to hack, custom ROMs are plenty, stable, and well supported by the XDA community.
Anything other than (last year's, or next year's) Moto E? I have nothing against the Moto E, but that's the one I know. I wonder what alternatives are out there. Last years version is, well, last year's, and has a 4.5" screen, this year's version, with a more preferable 5" screen is still longs months away.
Meanwhile, many 5", 1080x1920 phones with IPS display (and with 1/2 GB RAM, 8/16 GB storage, that part doesn't doesn't matter as much to me) hit the market at budget prices (read, less than 100 euros or US dollars) across the world.
My preference is:
The phones is sold by a wholly European subsidiary, with the usual 2-year warranty you usually get in Europe, with local service and support. This is the preferred option. 2-year warranty is the law here.
A 'World phone,' that is, a phone sold from China with whatever their warranties worth, as option B.
Our friends in the US are flocked to the BLU R1 HD/Amazon collaboration these days. So far so good. I wonder what current, or coming soon devices keep XDA folks from Europe, or the rest of the world intrigued?
My hunch is, you are interested in this as well, you just also don't know any better, any more than me!
Any update for December 2016??
Deep silence. I wonder if my question is entirely unreasonable, that's why you are silent, or, you are like me, you are also very interested in the answer of this question as well, you just don't have an answer, that's why you are silent.
It's possible that I've posted this in the wrong section of XDA, or I posted it on entirely the wrong forum, I shouldn't have posted this kind of question on XDA in the first place, but somewhere else?
I'm asking this, because when the $50 Blu phone with the Amazon partnership came out in the US, everyone was all over about it, which was in essence, a $100 phone without subsidies, for the rest of the world.
At least, please, a living creature say either "I would like (to know) this, too," or "no way, who wants a cheap crap phone?" I'm just feeling a little weird talking with myself here all alone, on this, otherwise, premiere Android forum.
From CNN:
"ZTE Corporation, one of China's largest tech companies, has halted "major operating activities" after a US ban against the company went into effect, according to a new public filing."
"Some of the company's products, which includes smartphones and telecommunications equipment, appeared to be taken offline Wednesday. "
And this is so stupid because not everyone lives in the US.........
Unfortunately ZTE have not kept up an agreement with the US and action has been taken .... makes me think thank god for tdm and his amazing work
stinka318 said:
And this is so stupid because not everyone lives in the US.........
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The biggest part of the seven-year ban involves no buying any products from US based companies. So no Qualcomm chips, no Dolby, etc. That's what really is devastating to them.
That being said it still sucks. It seemed like they were heading in a good direction, but they violated terms of a legal settlement. I'll still be using my Axon 7 Mini as a "backup" phone, but unfortunately won't be able to get another ZTE...
Sent from my Robin using XDA Labs
Is there still a point to purchasing one and going through the trouble of rooting it so that I will work on Verizon?
igresham said:
Is there still a point to purchasing one and going through the trouble of rooting it so that I will work on Verizon?
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If I were you I would maybe go with Huawei, they manufacture most of the parts themselves. Don't know if they will be also banned soon
ZTE should partner with Huawei and get the parts from them. Although I am unsure which supplier is being used for WiFi (if it would be Broadcom it would be funny)
TheSSJ said:
If I were you I would maybe go with Huawei, they manufacture most of the parts themselves. Don't know if they will be also banned soon
ZTE should partner with Huawei and get the parts from them. Although I am unsure which supplier is being used for WiFi (if it would be Broadcom it would be funny)
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Partnering with Huawei might get past finding a supplier for the CPU/SoC - switch from Snapdragon to Kirin. Mediatek would be another option.
Still, they'd be stuck needing to roll out a whole new lineup of devices based on the new hardware.
In any event, would still have trouble purchasing a license for Google-certified Android software such as the Play Services, Play Store, etc.
However, it's starting to look like the USA strategy all along was to use this export ban as a bargaining tool to force China to make concessions in ongoing trade negotiations. There's nothing like going thermonuclear (figuratively speaking) to catch your adversary's (also known as "trading partner's") attention. Trump has recently tweeted that he's open to "working together" with the Chinese government to re-start ZTE's operations. (On the other hand, I've read in other news sources claiming that the most recent string of events with the USA backpedaling on the ZTE file is evidence of China preying on a naive USA trade strategy. Who knows: Maybe both opinions are true?)