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1080p smartphones and 60fps plausibility?

I dont see a lot of chatter about 60fps recording on the latest batch of 720/1080p recording smart phones.. Is it even possible or just a matter of hardware limitations? Im just curious if we could see a future hack enabling 60fps or do we wait for manufacturers to offer it. thanks!

That would be SICK... But I don't think it'd be possible due to the size of the camera sensor in most mobile phones.

i just know that the HTC Bass (Runnymede) will be able to do 720p recording at 60fps.
afaik, there are no known phones that can do [email protected] currently.

socalwrx said:
I dont see a lot of chatter about 60fps recording on the latest batch of 720/1080p recording smart phones.. Is it even possible or just a matter of hardware limitations? Im just curious if we could see a future hack enabling 60fps or do we wait for manufacturers to offer it. thanks!
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Sounds like James Cameron's dream phone, to me. Cameron is pushing for the movie industry to adopt a minimum 60fp/s for movies.

is 60fps the limit? cant it go any higher?

Really isn't much benefit in going higher except for Video/Sports analysis, TBH. For just watching stuff, 60 FPS is good enough.

I understand that for general recording/watching 30fps is plenty. 24fps even.. Id just be interested for some cool slo-mo effects. even if it were capped at a short time due to the size of the file. Im just wondering if its hardware limitations (video encoding of the chipset, size of the sensor as previously mentioned) or just a matter of software tweaking; forcing the phone to record/encode @ 60fps.
I had an older LG phone that had a slo-mo effect that looked cool but quality took a big hit.

socalwrx said:
I understand that for general recording/watching 30fps is plenty. 24fps even.. Id just be interested for some cool slo-mo effects. even if it were capped at a short time due to the size of the file. Im just wondering if its hardware limitations (video encoding of the chipset, size of the sensor as previously mentioned) or just a matter of software tweaking; forcing the phone to record/encode @ 60fps.
I had an older LG phone that had a slo-mo effect that looked cool but quality took a big hit.
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agree
even if games / videos were made to run 60 fps, it's a waste of power
there's no point pushing more than 30 frames when human eyes can barely keep up with less than that

AllGamer said:
agree
even if games / videos were made to run 60 fps, it's a waste of power
there's no point pushing more than 30 frames when human eyes can barely keep up with less than that
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Don't agree at all. The difference is big and is easily proven. Seems to be some kind of urban legend that eyes cannot perceive faster movement than around 24-30fps
Check for example these example videos (using a modern browser on a modern PC).
http://www.boallen.com/fps-compare.html

tjtj4444 said:
Don't agree at all. The difference is big and is easily proven. Seems to be some kind of urban legend that eyes cannot perceive faster movement than around 24-30fps
Check for example these example videos (using a modern browser on a modern PC).
http://www.boallen.com/fps-compare.html
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This is an age old debate and is far more complex than that one example can cover. For video playback where you can't resolve individual frames though, 30 fps is more than enough.
Yes, we all like to see those beautiful bullet time type videos shot with fast cameras, but there are limitations other than processing power. In this case it's optical. The faster you shoot, the better lit the scene needs to be and the better the light gathering ability of the optics. Perfectly easy to overcome when you're lighting the scene and using proper hardware. Not so good when you're using a phone to do the shooting though!

I don't see the point of 1080p/60fps until they can do 1080p/30fps properly
Also better optics before moving onto anything else

DirkGently1 said:
This is an age old debate and is far more complex than that one example can cover. For video playback where you can't resolve individual frames though, 30 fps is more than enough.
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Sorry but I don't agree at all, and your post doesn't include one single argument for you statement so it doesn't make any change.
30 fps looks ok, but 60fps video looks more fluid. It is very obvious in fast moving videos, e g sports.
I know that movies are made for 24fps and have "motion blur" to remove the problems with low frame rate, and some people prefere this motion blur (i e movie captured with small aperture) but that is a matter of taste and doesn't change what looks more fluid or not.

HTC Vivid [email protected] http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_vivid-4302.php

That all depends on the GPU. Maybe the powervr sgx 543 can, seems the most plausible of all the GPUs available.

So those can shoot @60fps:
-LG G2
-Note 3
-HTC One (720p only)
Does anybody know more devices?
Maybe Nexus 5 after some camera hack...? I would buy if it had 1080p60

Samsung Galaxy S4 and S5 can record 60fps video as well

KERNEL - Optimize camera for 60FPS - Kernel developer needed.

Im working on the camera, but the driver seems to be "limited" to 30FPS so if i set 60FPS on the apk will not work, due kernel override it.
I need a kernel developer to look deep into this, please can anyone send me a PM i think can be cool have working QHD or HD at 60 FPS for better experience.
See you!

Yes you would have a better experience because your eye´s can see 25.5 frames per second .....
thats why movies are so bad because they only have 25 frames per second .. they are so ugly to see

xtcislove said:
Yes you would have a better experience because your eye´s can see 25.5 frames per second .....
thats why movies are so bad because they only have 25 frames per second .. they are so ugly to see
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such BS.. eyes can see a lot more then 25.5 frames a second..

But you will never notice a difference...

You can always play 60fps video with 25fps and have smooth slowmotion

xtcislove said:
But you will never notice a difference...
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of course you see a difference.. did you try to play an egoshooter locked up to 25fps.. its complete ****.. even between 40fps and 60fps there is a huge difference
also movies in cinema wich are 25fps have frames in between to make it more smoothly so you actually see 25 different frames in a second but in reality you see 75 frames ( depending on an actions equence and stuff)

Jur1nator said:
of course you see a difference.. did you try to play an egoshooter locked up to 25fps.. its complete ****.. even between 40fps and 60fps there is a huge difference
also movies in cinema wich are 25fps have frames in between to make it more smoothly so you actually see 25 different frames in a second but in reality you see 75 frames ( depending on an actions equence and stuff)
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The fact is that the human eye perceives the typical cinema film motion as being fluid at about 18fps, because of its blurring.
But definetly you can apreciate diference bewten 30 and 60FPS ( this last more nitid cleear and smooth
Compare this, and then tell me if you see diference...
youtube reconverts at 30FPS so, you need to see the second one ( slowmo ) you se the second video is more fluid.
If you pause the video in movement, at 30FPS the image is blurry at 60FPS NOT....
So i think 60FPS is a good point to develop, maybe not for you but for me, and skaters, or other people doing high speed sports, this can be awesome.
Excuse my bad english.

|ErosizeD| said:
The fact is that the human eye perceives the typical cinema film motion as being fluid at about 18fps, because of its blurring.
But definetly you can apreciate diference bewten 30 and 60FPS ( this last more nitid cleear and smooth
Compare this, and then tell me if you see diference...
youtube reconverts at 30FPS so, you need to see the second one ( slowmo ) you se the second video is more fluid.
If you pause the video in movement, at 30FPS the image is blurry at 60FPS NOT....
So i think 60FPS is a good point to develop, maybe not for you but for me, and skaters, or other people doing high speed sports, this can be awesome.
Excuse my bad english.
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I can totally see the difference. this would be a great addition to your mod.

I can see it as well. I can only hope that one of the kernel developers can help out with this. Could be a great addition to our devices.

video recording lag

Video recording in indoor/artificial lighting causes video tobe recorded @15 fps and makes video blurry .. How to fix this ?? Ive tried with other mobiles and they record at 30fps in the same conditions

you are not alone. i am wondering why the low light fps is so low, too. even my old xperia arc s (which has singlecore and adreno 205 gpu) was capable of recording 720p videos at 30 fps in low light scenes.

GodOfPsychos said:
you are not alone. i am wondering why the low light fps is so low, too. even my old xperia arc s (which has singlecore and adreno 205 gpu) was capable of recording 720p videos at 30 fps in low light scenes.
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Uh, are you sure you don't have the slow-motion video option turned on? My G records in 30fps still, even in low-light.

Roph said:
Uh, are you sure you don't have the slow-motion video option turned on? My G records in 30fps still, even in low-light.
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no no no xD. i would recocnize if i had slow motion in my videos , because the video playback would be 15 fps (but recorded with 60 of course).
And i also don't have stock moto Firmware installed. i flashed Google Play Edition Rom long time ago (which doesn't even have the slow motion feature).
The Google Play Edition isn't even the problem for the cameras bad low light performance (i also had the stock motorola firmware with the motorola camera app before i flashed the GPE Rom)
maybe you and me could post video samples to compare the fps in bright light scenes and low-light scenes
Edit: i already found a video sample that perfectly explains what i mean. immediately in the first moment you can see the low light performance. and when he moves the camera to the window (where it gets bright) you can see that the fps rapidly go up to 30fps. and when he moves the camera away again to the indoor low light, it gets laggy and goes down to 15-18 fps https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWf8UBSC2tU

This is a normal way for the camera to behave. In darker light, the exposure must be increased. I.e. the camera takes longer in order to capture more light. In higher end devices this isn't a problem since they capture enough light anyway (or have an "internal" FPS that is higher), but with the G, moto has to cut corners to achieve the price point.
If framerate is critical to you, use a camera app that allows manual exposure control and keep it low. You'll be in for a very dark video though.

Roph said:
This is a normal way for the camera to behave. In darker light, the exposure must be increased. I.e. the camera takes longer in order to capture more light. In higher end devices this isn't a problem since they capture enough light anyway (or have an "internal" FPS that is higher), but with the G, moto has to cut corners to achieve the price point.
If framerate is critical to you, use a camera app that allows manual exposure control and keep it low. You'll be in for a very dark video though.
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read my second post. my old arc s increased the exposure in a really nice and clean way and it was even smoother in low-light scenes, while increasing the exposure to a really high level

GodOfPsychos said:
read my second post. my old arc s increased the exposure in a really nice and clean way and it was even smoother in low-light scenes, while increasing the exposure to a really high level
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And read my post again. The Arc S was not a bargain bottom device. You only need to meet a baseline level of camera performance to get the right exposure for a given framerate. With a higher quality camera sensor, you can push the exposure still higher when needed (dark environment) and still stay above this baseline.
The Moto G uses a cheap, low performance sensor. Recording just in regular light is already just about using the sensor to its limits. Low-light goes below the baseline, and so the FPS drops. There's no way around it. The SOC in the Moto G is easily capable of recording/encoding 1080p, but the camera module isn't up to the task, for the same reason.

It's not the sensor. Its the firmwares fault. With the normal motorola camera app, you are able to record videos at 60 fps. while recording the slow motion videos, the framerate drops by 15-20 fps when you record some low light scenes, which does mean the sensor has still 40-45 fps available for recording the video. The software needs just some tweaks here and there for a big improvement in fps, noise reduction, color reproduction etc
Jishnu Snur's modified motorola camera app already does have better color reproduction compared to the stock one.
Sent from my XT1032 using XDA Free mobile app

low fps
Even xperia m had this issue but they fixed that with a firmware update.but Motorola doesn't even know about this issue.idk if everyone is having this issue.btw being a bargain device doesn't mean to ignore all its shortcomings
Can you give the link to improved camera? is root required?

Here you go
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2699090
Sent from my XT1032 using XDA Free mobile app

Lg V10 manual video test

here is my first quick test i ve did with my lg v10, using cinema size in manual mode, and test the manual focul.
simply amazing quality, this is what i ve been looking for to have in a smartphone since years!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jW2u_KSen8

Now that looks like a delicious ice-cream
Thanks for the upload mate, indeed nice OIS and focus performance.
But what I'm wondering is the other options mainly shutter speed; I'm not really deep into photography but using a Lumia for over 2 years I know how useful manual controls are for photos. But I just don't understand how you can change shutter speed in a video; isn't that a function which may only have a meaning while taking photos? Isn't the "shutter" open all the time while recording a video thus changing shutter speed while recording actually means nothing?
Thanks in advance if one can enlighten me. For instance can you make a test video while changing shutter speed on the fly?

Mmmm Ice-cream! Can you change the framerate to PAL (25 / 50fps)?

jmone said:
Mmmm Ice-cream! Can you change the framerate to PAL (25 / 50fps)?
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nop, only 30/60

nocomp said:
nop, only 30/60
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Thanks for checking.... no surprise really

That's pretty sharp. Can you do a 1080p test using OIS? The wobbles still bother me. I'm curious what OIS can do.

lensgrabber said:
That's pretty sharp. Can you do a 1080p test using OIS? The wobbles still bother me. I'm curious what OIS can do.
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+1 , i am curious also

i ll do one tomorrow, night time here already

nocomp said:
i ll do one tomorrow, night time here already
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Thanks! I'm subbed to your channel and will watch out for new vids.

lensgrabber said:
Thanks! I'm subbed to your channel and will watch out for new vids.
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thxx a lot, if there any other test you want me to do, just post them here

Well, my humble request stays few posts back but I guess its been overlooked

tersagun said:
Now that looks like a delicious ice-cream
Thanks for the upload mate, indeed nice OIS and focus performance.
But what I'm wondering is the other options mainly shutter speed; I'm not really deep into photography but using a Lumia for over 2 years I know how useful manual controls are for photos. But I just don't understand how you can change shutter speed in a video; isn't that a function which may only have a meaning while taking photos? Isn't the "shutter" open all the time while recording a video thus changing shutter speed while recording actually means nothing?
Thanks in advance if one can enlighten me. For instance can you make a test video while changing shutter speed on the fly?
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shutter speed, is the process that allow the light to go in the captor to every frame you record.
usually this process is automatic, now you can change the spdeed, meaning, if it s too dark you can add more light than auto mode would allow, and get better picture

4K Time Limit?
Is there a time limit on how long you can shoot 4K video? If so, what is it? Thanks.

jokalee said:
Is there a time limit on how long you can shoot 4K video? If so, what is it? Thanks.
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I don't believe their may be one, if anything you would be more concerned about running out of memory space for the video than anything. These 1minute videos range from 600mb-1gig per file from a few shots I made.

make123 said:
I don't believe their may be one, if anything you would be more concerned about running out of memory space for the video than anything. These 1minute videos range from 600mb-1gig per file from a few shots I made.
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Thanks. I see that LG is giving away a 200 GB microSD card with purchase of the phone. I'm debating upgrading my Note 3.

jokalee said:
Thanks. I see that LG is giving away a 200 GB microSD card with purchase of the phone. I'm debating upgrading my Note 3.
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Actually let me update you on that I don't want you to go off with wrong information here, but now that I notice It did say "5:00" minutes when I started recording in 4k , note, I don't know if it's because my memory card is only 32gb (aka memory max like I said) or if it's because that's really the max time you're allowed, Just a heads up! Also a 3minute video is 1GB so note worthy as well, not sure where I got other info I must have clicked the wrong videos

make123 said:
Actually let me update you on that I don't want you to go off with wrong information here, but now that I notice It did say "5:00" minutes when I started recording in 4k , note, I don't know if it's because my memory card is only 32gb (aka memory max like I said) or if it's because that's really the max time you're allowed, Just a heads up!
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I thought it might be. I'll maybe try a few different camera apps if I decide to go with the phone. I think my Note 3 is 5 min. with the default camera, but I get up to 17 minutes with other apps.

When taking a photo in a street during the night with iso 50 and shutter speed of 1 second, car headlights produce light trails.
But when recording a timelapse (using 1 fps manual video and same iso and shutter speed as before) the resulting video does not have light trails.
Why is that? Does the shutter speed setting has different meaning for photo and video?

Camera App Mods - Suggestions and Questions

Hi Guys,
I'm not a dev and won't be able to any of the suggestions, but just some things I'm wondering from learning how the 960FPS camera works...
Firstly - the camera has a 128MB buffer for the 960fps shooting - this is why it is limited to 0.182 seconds of video (ish). So, two suggestions:
1- Can the camera app be modified to allow lower resolutions? at 720p it will only allow 0.182 seconds, at 480p would this be much longer?
2- Can the camera app be modified to allow lower frame rates? Obviously lower than 240fps is not really productive, but doubling the recording time by making it 480fps would be handy - most useful if you can select which FPS to use etc.
3- Is there any way to modify the app to enable automatic-sequential slow mo segments? One thing you can manually do is hit the Super Slow Mo button over and over again - with a minute delay whilst the cache flushes to the processor and then to storage. Can this be automated? You'd end up with a stuttery video afterwards, but you may end up capturing the specific detail you were aiming for - a water drop hitting the ground, a spark from a firework, a beat of a bird's wings etc.
As said, these are just thoughts, questions and suggestions - I am not a dev and won't be modding the cam app or anything, I'm just putting these out there to see if it's just me who wants them and also to see if there's anyone clever enough to make it so
Discussion encouraged

I also wonder if the 960fps recording is accessible to third party apps.
Sent from my G8142 using XDA Labs

kot5nik said:
I also wonder if the 960fps recording is accessible to third party apps.
Sent from my G8142 using XDA Labs
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No way it is accessible, Sony even limited the shutter speed to 1/10s for third party apps, so I say the camera buffer functionality is a big NO for anyone other than Sony, at least for now...

I'm also interested in this - mainly the slowing the FPS down for longer, but faster slomo. The ability to do endless 240FPS would be great.

I think Sony intentionally cripples a great camera/sensor.
I don't understand why Sony didn't include 240fps @ 720p and 120fps @ 1080p.
Then there's no RAW imaging.
I am pretty sure this time also Pixel 2 is gonna crush all the phone cameras with it's crazy camera algorithms.
Look at these links
https://www.theverge.com/2017/4/27/15447130/google-post-processing-nighttime-mobile-photography
https://research.googleblog.com/2017/04/experimental-nighttime-photography-with.html
I know it's pointless to go and shoot stars with a phone but it's so cool if it had features.
Sony Alpha team actually is taking customers serious about features and innovates which is good.

chesterr said:
I think Sony intentionally cripples a great camera/sensor.
I don't understand why Sony didn't include 240fps @ 720p and 120fps @ 1080p.
Then there's no RAW imaging.
I am pretty sure this time also Pixel 2 is gonna crush all the phone cameras with it's crazy camera algorithms.
Look at these links
https://www.theverge.com/2017/4/27/15447130/google-post-processing-nighttime-mobile-photography
https://research.googleblog.com/2017/04/experimental-nighttime-photography-with.html
I know it's pointless to go and shoot stars with a phone but it's so cool if it had features.
Sony Alpha team actually is taking customers serious about features and innovates which is good.
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It has nothing to do with algoritms. If you are using a tripod with your smartphone you can have equal or better results. I bet these photos of the Pixel were shot on tripod too.