Related
Take it with a grain of salt. But it sounds mildly legit.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=913045
edit: actually i call b.s.
whiteguypl said:
edit: actually i call b.s.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why? I have no firm opinion one way or the other, but just saying "bull****" really doesn't mean much unless you're playing the card game.
How could Samsung charge for an open-source project update? Obviously they must make some modifications to make it fit their phones, but at its core, its still an open source program.
Billabong81 said:
How could Samsung charge for an open-source project update? Obviously they must make some modifications to make it fit their phones, but at its core, its still an open source program.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Open source doesn't mean free.
I'm inclined to believe it. It makes more sense than trying to say they have been testing it for months. I've had my captivate for 6 months, almost 5 of them running FroYo thanks to the awesome devs here. Has the froyo always been stable and fast? No. But the devs don't work for Samsung with all the resouces, they are doing it in their spare time. I would bet Samsung had a fairly stable, almost complete version of FroYo ready before the phone released.
I am really getting tempted by the Atrix, apart from the awesome hardware and webtop app, Motorola devices get updates. But, they sound harder to flash custom ROMs, so its a give and take. Based on what I saw on the CES coverage, going with only official software may not be so bad.
Sent from my SGH-I897 using XDA App
Makes no sense. Regardless if Samsung charges for feature updates or not, terms of the upgrades would have been set between carrier and Samsung prior to the first handset even being made. Thus outside of any major surprises (which there are none here) the carrier knows from day one what upgrades will be offered, when and at what cost. It's not like Samsung turned around weeks after the devices shipped and said, "Hey. That Froyo upgrade is gonna cost ya, buddy!" That would have been known long before contacts were signed.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
Even if thus is true, both AT&T and Samsung have all ready made too many mistakes. Both will lose some business. Yes it won't be enough to hurt either but maybe all the pestering will make them rethink their business models. Probably not. My last Samschmuck phone on AT&T for sure.
Sent from a phone somewhere in the universe
ianwood said:
Makes no sense. Regardless if Samsung charges for feature updates or not, terms of the upgrades would have been set between carrier and Samsung prior to the first handset even being made. Thus outside of any major surprises (which there are none here) the carrier knows from day one what upgrades will be offered, when and at what cost. It's not like Samsung turned around weeks after the devices shipped and said, "Hey. That Froyo upgrade is gonna cost ya, buddy!" That would have been known long before contacts were signed.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the same point I tried to make on the thread. While Samsung may have been the ones to state that Froyo would come to Galaxy S, it may be that the carrier(s) decided to balk on the 2.2 update due to extra cost as probably stipulated by whatever contract they negotiated with Samsung.
If Froyo is already on Canadian carriers' devices (officially) why not U.S. carriers. Something reeks here.
While Samsung should have kept their mouths shut about the update, I'm sure a part is being played by the American carriers here.
Billabong81 said:
How could Samsung charge for an open-source project update? Obviously they must make some modifications to make it fit their phones, but at its core, its still an open source program.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are mixing up open source with free software. Ask Richard Stallman the difference
Also, I would imagine that they would not be paying Samsung for the software itself but more so the software development to tailor it to the carriers needs.
This sounds good in theory, but I think it has holes.
this would be the case for all phones on all carriers, but it isn't the same situation.
iphone updates are coming out all the time. With at&t subsidized out the butt on the iphone, I fail to believe they osu for all those updates.
I had a samsung blackjCk, and we went through the same thing with winmo, meanwhile other at&t phones got the updates.
Id have to say honestly in my personal opinion based from facts from an inside source... At&t is so obsessed with the iphone anything that costs them money or time that doesn't increase profits is going to be set on the backburner... Att has a time of year called "Iphone season" where they push the new versions and updates of the iphone to customers.... Seeing as how froyo itself was already released for almost every device on OTHER carriers and att has yet to push a single update aside from the eclaire update i doubt it will ever be coming.
Not to mention if anyone has noticed att removed ALOT of stuff from the captivates before they were able to ship them to customers... for example the third party apk allow button is completely gone from the stock phones due to att and their restrictions and the market having apps that just don't show up becuase of the way att wants to now start locking down phones like apple. (not trying to bash anyone or brands but from what ive seen from someone who loves to customize and believe anything i pay for is mine and i should be able to do as i wish with said product that's how it is in my eyes)
I think that since they have the rage over the iphones (another reason they try to sell them harder then any other phone is because of the "vast amount of accessories" ) it feels like they fell on the band wagon of the craze instead of actually worrying about ALL of their customers. It just seems like since iphone updates are pushed to phone and att doesnt have to deal with them, not to mention if the phone messes up it goes to an apple store and not att.
I've also heard rumors from att employees stating that something was signed with apple to put restrictions on android updates and phones in order to allow exclusivity for the iphone when it was first released. As to the truth behind this, anyones guess is as good as mine. Just seems funny how No att phones have gotten the froyo update unless they've (the customer) installed it themselves.
I wouldn't be looking forward to any updates from what i've seen on my end.
A.VOID said:
This sounds good in theory, but I think it has holes.
this would be the case for all phones on all carriers, but it isn't the same situation.
iphone updates are coming out all the time. With at&t subsidized out the butt on the iphone, I fail to believe they osu for all those updates.
I had a samsung blackjCk, and we went through the same thing with winmo, meanwhile other at&t phones got the updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AT&T has nothing to do with iPhone updates. Matter of fact, AT&T has nothing to do with iPhones at all, except sell them. All iPhone updates are done through iTunes and all iPhone support is handled by Apple. This is not a good comparison.
Even comparing WinMo doesn't really work. I had a Wizard on AT&T, and there was exactly one firmware update, even though there were other versions that were available later. Plus, Windows is not free and not based on open source code. So, carriers would expect to pay for updates with closed source operating systems.
Xaviorin said:
I've also heard rumors from att employees stating that something was signed with apple to put restrictions on android updates and phones in order to allow exclusivity for the iphone when it was first released.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If that were true, then Apple and AT&T would be facing some serious litigation. This is similar to the deals that Intel made with computer manufacturers, forcing them to slow leak AMD sales in order to sell more Intel chips. Intel paid quite a hefty fine and suffered a serious PR black eye. That type of practice stifles competition and is very, very illegal. So, I doubt that Apple and AT&T would even consider doing that.
Xaviorin said:
Id have to say honestly in my personal opinion based from facts from an inside source... At&t is so obsessed with the iphone anything that costs them money or time that doesn't increase profits is going to be set on the backburner... Att has a time of year called "Iphone season" where they push the new versions and updates of the iphone to customers.... Seeing as how froyo itself was already released for almost every device on OTHER carriers and att has yet to push a single update aside from the eclaire update i doubt it will ever be coming.
Not to mention if anyone has noticed att removed ALOT of stuff from the captivates before they were able to ship them to customers... for example the third party apk allow button is completely gone from the stock phones due to att and their restrictions and the market having apps that just don't show up becuase of the way att wants to now start locking down phones like apple. (not trying to bash anyone or brands but from what ive seen from someone who loves to customize and believe anything i pay for is mine and i should be able to do as i wish with said product that's how it is in my eyes)
I think that since they have the rage over the iphones (another reason they try to sell them harder then any other phone is because of the "vast amount of accessories" ) it feels like they fell on the band wagon of the craze instead of actually worrying about ALL of their customers. It just seems like since iphone updates are pushed to phone and att doesnt have to deal with them, not to mention if the phone messes up it goes to an apple store and not att.
I've also heard rumors from att employees stating that something was signed with apple to put restrictions on android updates and phones in order to allow exclusivity for the iphone when it was first released. As to the truth behind this, anyones guess is as good as mine. Just seems funny how No att phones have gotten the froyo update unless they've (the customer) installed it themselves.
I wouldn't be looking forward to any updates from what i've seen on my end.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Conspiracy theory much? Like someone said, your theories border on anti-competitive in practice. AT&T is also not so obsessed with the iPhone given how much they've diversified their smartphone portfolio in the past 9 months (+2 WebOS devices, +2 BlackBerrys, +3 Windows Phones, +5 Android devices).
I'm usually skeptical about these things, but this is about the only rumor that makes sense.
For those comparing it to the iphone, its like comparing oranges to apples. Apple pretty much takes care of everything on their side.At&t just peddles their product. Apple has a 400 person call center just for the iphone, next door to where I work.
Apple makes the hardware and creates the OS.
Samsung just makes hardware which is a good thing considering how bad their software engineers are at coding.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
I'm more in the conspiracy theory side
Don't trust everything you read.
Thing about it deeply, what is more likely:
A Sammy employee risked his job, created an account just to create this post, and tell us the truth about the updates and how bad his employer is? seriously? What did he gain by doing this post? peace of mind? can he go to sleep now that he has revealed the truth of the US-only updates? Does really the Samsung employees care this much for only the US based users? This smells, and bad.
Now lets look at the conspiracy side. An AT&T employee notices our frustration against them. They see that seem to be more frustrated people are the non tech-savvy ones; that we got to admit they are more than us and represent a big number for them. On the other hand I bet they receive a gazillion calls from you guys on these subject.
Wouldn't be more likely than AT&T representative created that post to wash their hands and pass the blame to sammy? Isn't them who released a restricted phone and made a deal with Samsung saying that they will be in charge of this phone's updates? Samsungs cost in releasing an update of a phone that is almost equal to 6 other phones they released is null; whereas AT&T cost in updating their crap is high. Don't be blind. Carriers are the new tyrants. They will do anything in their power to get more money. If you could see what they are able to do in countries like mine you wont even doubt this. In my country of such a deal is made you can forget that you will ever get updates. There even is a carrier that, after 4 months passed that you have purchased a motorola's android based phone, charges you 10 uss monthly for MOTO BLUR, and this was written in the small print of the contract... seriously... I've seen carriers cancel their users contracts, saying they requested that, to bill them their contract-cancelation fee...
I could go on with this for pages... I've witnessed carriers lying, deceiving, and even more right in the people's face. If you want to check this, and know some spanish or use translators, just google "Claro hijos de puta" (sons of a...) or "claro estafa" (scam); both searches give more than 3 million results, and you wont imagine what you might find inside those pages...
This whole thing smells badly. And if I had to bet, I would say that post was made by a carrier to buy them time, or even to start making up an excuse so they wont ever release an update... after all, they would be the only ones that would benefit from such events...
I'm through waiting
This story was the final straw for me, whether it's true or not. I am tired of the drama and am no longer waiting for AT&T and/or Samsung to deliver what AT&T told me would happen when I bought the phone. If AT&T store staff said something incorrect it was corporate's fault for not guiding their staff correctly. I was told shortly Froyo was coming, but it never came. Samsung said on Twitter/Facebook we all would have Froyo last year. There is no excuse for what they have done, none. I've waded through the myriad of 3rd party ROMs and was leery of the leaked Froyo ones due to everyone seemed to have an issue here or there. The 9000 ROMs sounded exciting but came with issues I didn't want. I just want a working GPS and a stable phone, running Froyo, what I thought I was getting last summer.
Now that Rogers released a North American ROM and the talented coders have seized upon it, we seem to be approaching a new level of stability with Froyo. After reading up on the various Rogers ROM based images I installed Cognition (donation coming later tonight) and after 30 minutes of playing around, I am home with Froyo now. I am beyond tired of waiting for AT&T and/or Samsung to do the honorable thing for they are not honorable companies. I doubt another Samsung will grace my pocket and yet maybe it will be the 3rd party coders that will ultimately deliver what I have waited patiently for, for months. Wouldn't it be a wonderful environment if Samsung would just release the source to everything and let those out here, those infinitely more talented than Samsung staff, have access to the code they need to work pure magic.
Billabong81 said:
How could Samsung charge for an open-source project update? Obviously they must make some modifications to make it fit their phones, but at its core, its still an open source program.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
polarbee said:
Open source doesn't mean free.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Open source comes under GPL license. This isn't the one that is of cost, but the efforts involved in packing for a device, its extensive testing is what is costly.
In the most simplest of terms, the following people would be involved:
Business Team x 3 people
Development Team x 6 people
Testing/QA Team x 10 people
To take care of these people:
Project Manager x 1 person
Team Leads x 3 people (1 for each team)
Taking this to 23 people, to say the least.
On an average, if we pay each person say $ 50k for 6 months effort, it would be $ 50,000 x 23 = $ 1,150,000 i.e., $ 1.15 millions for 6 months.
Now see, this is only the minimal scale. For a phone so wide spread, I would assume a team of atleast 50 where managers charge more than 100-200k a year.
Now u see why Samsung doesn't wish to put this kind of money into a phone already sold, and is looking into marketing newer phones.
I think its all hoopla.
This "leak" of sensitive information on one of many android forums is only going to reach the eyes of a hand full of readers.
We (the brave souls wanting new updates for our gadgets and willing to hack them to get it) are very few in numbers compared to the vast amounts of consumers who own this phone, and usually don't give a hoot about a new update/upgrade for their phones ROM, IF they even know what the heck it is. They only care that their calls and texts go through, and they can browse the web on their lunch break.
The ONLY issue that most would care about is the GPS issues we have had. And I bet that AT&T, and Samsung have both received tens of thousands of customer complaints regarding Mr. Joe Average not being able to find his way on his family vacation. Again, we are but a small number compared to that. I would think that alone would motivate something to happen, at least an OTA update to fix the GPS issues. Nope.
So other than an intellectual debate on "why haves", and "why have nots" on a forum like this, there is nothing else this message could possibly accomplish.
The above thread, and this one will slowly slide down the thread list and be forgotten and nothing else will change.
The Bottom Line
Rumors aside, if it doesn't sell more phones, minutes or data plans and it can be avoided without seriously upsetting customers, they won't bother. Outside of our merry band of flash-a-holics, what percent of Captivate owners even know what Froyo is or care?
Also, judging by the JH7 OTA debacle, Samsung's OTA upgrade capability is decidedly unreliable. I'd bet that caused a mountain of returns. AT&T HATES returns!!! Costs them a fortune. The cost of paying Samsung for a Froyo upgrade is a drop in the bucket by comparison. So a bad OTA system is worse than none at all. If AT&T can get away with avoiding it, they will.
I think our best hope is to make A LOT of noise! Complain to Samsung, AT&T and Google. Do it publicly on FB, Twitter, etc. Do it often. A small vocal group of XDA readers can probably stir up a decent amount of attention at AT&T if they coordinated their efforts.
Hello anyone reading this message.
My name is gregory. I am like most of you pretty pissed about the behavior of canonical (at least if you followed the ubuntu edge fund campaign http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ubuntu-edge). What a lame way to make advertising. Of course, anyone with a bit of sense would smell the scam here, 32,000,000$ in a month? come on man!!! So here I am. I've been a flasholic for years and I think I came up with the idea of making my own cell phone about 3 years ago. fear, shyness and lack of funds made me drop the idea several time. But today we have the possibility to change the cell phone world together, thanx to canonical's lame way to advertise their OS. Basically here is my idea, Why not fund our own XDA phone? After all, many of us having problem or getting fed up with the slow updates of our phones are coming here to get things done. Most of us don't wait anymore for those big brands to update our devices. So why in the world are we waiting for them to build them. I've been around XDA for quite some times now and all I see here is a great mix of DEV. So correct me if i'm wrong. The dev on XDA are for most way faster and more reliable than the one at samsung, htc etc. the parts for the phones are all made in china for the most part, we all know some designers and the ubuntu edge crowfunding made it to 12,000,000 +. So here is my question to you people on XDA. Why don't we make our own phone the same way. Even 10,000,000 would be largely enough to make simply the best phone in the world. we could make a poll about each part and design in the phone, and i'm pretty sure the dev here would agree to make the device better. Not only because they will be pay for it, but because they love it. I am no business man, neither a develloper. I don't know code or anything in that matter. Now let me tell you my vision (and no i didn't take LSD for it)
imagines a phone with the latest specs like the edge. 128gb drive storage, 4gb ram, sapphire glass etc etc, it would be nice, but now imagine the same device with the XDA community back up, updates and corrections every 1 or 2 months, pushed straight to your phone without need of external program (kies, itunes or else... why is it call mobile phone if you need to have a computer to update it?), a minimum of 3 years updates, and of course, the ability to solve your problem here without having to talk with lame company commercials who would send your phone to korea just because they don't know anything about the product they sell. won't it be a dream? - more ideas are very welcome and that's why WE should do our own phone.
As I said, i'm not into the cell phone business, although I know some things about business in china, i'm no designer or dev, but i'm sure we could put up a pretty team from people here and make it happen. And when it's done, start a crowfunding. I know it would work because the name XDA alone stand for quality and improvement in our mobile world today. I have in mind that anyone willing to do that would succeed and I can't protect this kind of idea since i'm not the one who invent cell phone. but I also think the great thing with the xda community is that there is no lame boss or greedy stock sharers to decide what people should do or not. I'm hard working and if people think we should make it then i'm willing to work my ass, even travel (i'm from Paris, france not texas ) overseas to make this happen. here is the team i think we should put together to see this device built:
- people who knows the chinese technology market (where to buy and select company)
- DEV who knows about Android devellopment (maybe ubuntu or any other)
- designers ( let's try to make something more beautiful than the iphone )
- lawyers (I guess)
- commercials
any other ideas are welcome.
I opened this thread just to see your reactions on the subjects. it a little messy because i have so many things in my mind but feel free to argue, critisized, encourage, or just explain to us anything that comes in your mind. cheers
jimmymetis said:
Hello anyone reading this message.
My name is gregory. I am like most of you pretty pissed about the behavior of canonical (at least if you followed the ubuntu edge fund campaign http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ubuntu-edge). What a lame way to make advertising. Of course, anyone with a bit of sense would smell the scam here, 32,000,000$ in a month? come on man!!! So here I am. I've been a flasholic for years and I think I came up with the idea of making my own cell phone about 3 years ago. fear, shyness and lack of funds made me drop the idea several time. But today we have the possibility to change the cell phone world together, thanx to canonical's lame way to advertise their OS. Basically here is my idea, Why not fund our own XDA phone? After all, many of us having problem or getting fed up with the slow updates of our phones are coming here to get things done. Most of us don't wait anymore for those big brands to update our devices. So why in the world are we waiting for them to build them. I've been around XDA for quite some times now and all I see here is a great mix of DEV. So correct me if i'm wrong. The dev on XDA are for most way faster and more reliable than the one at samsung, htc etc. the parts for the phones are all made in china for the most part, we all know some designers and the ubuntu edge crowfunding made it to 12,000,000 +. So here is my question to you people on XDA. Why don't we make our own phone the same way. Even 10,000,000 would be largely enough to make simply the best phone in the world. we could make a poll about each part and design in the phone, and i'm pretty sure the dev here would agree to make the device better. Not only because they will be pay for it, but because they love it. I am no business man, neither a develloper. I don't know code or anything in that matter. Now let me tell you my vision (and no i didn't take LSD for it)
imagines a phone with the latest specs like the edge. 128gb drive storage, 4gb ram, sapphire glass etc etc, it would be nice, but now imagine the same device with the XDA community back up, updates and corrections every 1 or 2 months, pushed straight to your phone without need of external program (kies, itunes or else... why is it call mobile phone if you need to have a computer to update it?), a minimum of 3 years updates, and of course, the ability to solve your problem here without having to talk with lame company commercials who would send your phone to korea just because they don't know anything about the product they sell. won't it be a dream? - more ideas are very welcome and that's why WE should do our own phone.
As I said, i'm not into the cell phone business, although I know some things about business in china, i'm no designer or dev, but i'm sure we could put up a pretty team from people here and make it happen. And when it's done, start a crowfunding. I know it would work because the name XDA alone stand for quality and improvement in our mobile world today. I have in mind that anyone willing to do that would succeed and I can't protect this kind of idea since i'm not the one who invent cell phone. but I also think the great thing with the xda community is that there is no lame boss or greedy stock sharers to decide what people should do or not. I'm hard working and if people think we should make it then i'm willing to work my ass, even travel (i'm from Paris, france not texas ) overseas to make this happen. here is the team i think we should put together to see this device built:
- people who knows the chinese technology market (where to buy and select company)
- DEV who knows about Android devellopment (maybe ubuntu or any other)
- designers ( let's try to make something more beautiful than the iphone )
- lawyers (I guess)
- commercials
any other ideas are welcome.
I opened this thread just to see your reactions on the subjects. it a little messy because i have so many things in my mind but feel free to argue, critisized, encourage, or just explain to us anything that comes in your mind. cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A search would have shown you this has already been talked about and "If" it ever did happen it would not be with any parts from China at all. The parts would have to be of the highest quality. But as I said this has already been talked about before.
zelendel said:
A search would have shown you this has already been talked about and "If" it ever did happen it would not be with any parts from China at all. The parts would have to be of the highest quality. But as I said this has already been talked about before.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i tried to find anything about this but didn't, could you tell me which thread talk about that?
zelendel said:
A search would have shown you this has already been talked about and "If" it ever did happen it would not be with any parts from China at all. The parts would have to be of the highest quality. But as I said this has already been talked about before.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if this has been discuss already then you can close the thread. still didn't find anything on the subject, maybe i'm not using the good key words to find it. anyway thanx
hi i know this is kinda irrelevant but did the law passed last year really prevent ppl from making unlocking software like redsn0w, yellowsn0w, pwnage for the iphone 5s?
i dont see any available and the last update was like 3 years ago. is the iphone no longer unlockable except for the paid online services for 100-200 dollars?
thanks!
yinxzon said:
hi i know this is kinda irrelevant but did the law passed last year really prevent ppl from making unlocking software like redsn0w, yellowsn0w, pwnage for the iphone 5s?
i dont see any available and the last update was like 3 years ago. is the iphone no longer unlockable except for the paid online services for 100-200 dollars?
thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1) Software unlocked stopped working after the first couple of basebands on the iPhone 4. The baseband is basically too tightly locked for those types of hacks.
2) AFAIK it is not illegal to unlock a device.
3) This site is for Android an Windows Phone, not iOS. We don't do iOS here at all. You might check out another iPhone site for more info.
i know its android forum, i hate everything aapl so i dont wanna register there.
i think its a law:
http://www.cultofmac.com/213144/unl...king-is-still-safe-what-it-all-means-for-you/
but i didnt think that would stop anyone. i guess ur reasoning for complicated basebands makes sense.
there is just so many imei unlocks for a lot of money and if its cheap who knows if it would work..
thanks
yinxzon said:
i know its android forum, i hate everything aapl so i dont wanna register there.
i think its a law:
http://www.cultofmac.com/213144/unl...king-is-still-safe-what-it-all-means-for-you/
but i didnt think that would stop anyone. i guess ur reasoning for complicated basebands makes sense.
there is just so many imei unlocks for a lot of money and if its cheap who knows if it would work..
thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
According to that article, the law would go into effect in 9 days from today, and it's not illegal to go thru the carriers.
Software unlocks are not going to happen, other than using a SIM interposer, like R-Sim etc..
I don't know if using a SIM interposer would be illegal though, since technically you are not unlocking the phone or modifying the hardware in any way, you are only changing the way the signal goes from the SIM card to the phone, so technically you might be safe.
Practically, I don't see anyone actually getting prosecuted for "unlocking their iPhone" anyways.
But the only way right now is the a SIM interposer (check compatibility of the model and iOS version) or go thru carrier, or pay a premium price for 3rd party.
But yeah, since this forum does not cover or support iOS you're better off finding a forum that actually supports it.
yeah i understand, just fyi that article write jan 26 2013 not 14.
like this: http://iphone-unlocker-pro.com/?gclid=CI_y86zthbwCFaTm7AodOzUAUQ or http://www.officialiphoneunlock.co.uk/unlock-iphone/ATT-USA/
You would probably be able to find a lot more information over here:
http://forum.iphone-developers.com/
:good:
Android is supposed to be open, customizable and free, vs iOS. That's why I'm making the switch (plus I couldn't stand the screen size of iPhone).
But now I realize Samsung is behaving like Apple:
- Knox highly discourages (prevents) rooting, just like Apple tries to prevent jailbreaks
- Firmware can't be downgraded, just like on iOS too
Part 1 is still acceptable under the pretext of corporate security, especially since end users generally have no issues getting warranty even with Knox tripped.
But part 2 is simply inconceivable IMO. No downgrading is just ridiculous. It's way worse than part 1 because at least users can choose to void warranty and ignore Knox, but part 2 is maintaining an iron control.
That is the really stupid bit. I have been upgrading, downgrading when I wanted to since the galaxy s days and now this not being able to downgrade really ppppppeeee me off. Didn't care about Knox and tripped it.... But...?... Let's set what's out there come September when my contract runs out
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
When I read threads on how which firmware versions are rootable (without tripping knox) and which aren't, they remind me of apple blogs posting about which iOS versions are jailbreak safe.
Can't believe I'm still gonna buy a note 3!
fterh said:
When I read threads on how which firmware versions are rootable (without tripping knox) and which aren't, they remind me of apple blogs posting about which iOS versions are jailbreak safe.
Can't believe I'm still gonna buy a note 3!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I get it. The hardware is still a good value, but I'll probably look elsewhere in the future.
These companies get too big and start to dictate what the user wants instead of listening... And when they are sitting pretty on top they tend to stop developing new innovations because "They are the best" and then the item tends to stagnate with VERY little actual developement thrown in. Anything new is a kneejerk reaction to the next up and comer for king of the heap....
They will still say it is for the best of the user but in reality its because they're too damn lazy to work. Then comes the copyright everything attitudeand the litigation and more effort is spent suing others for copyright einfingement than making the latest and greatest, what was Apple"s big thing a while back, oh yeah, lets make it white....
Works well for them and most users who have a hard time working out which end to speak in but not for those who actually want to own, use and control what their device actually does....
Take a lil bit, bit by bit til theres nothing less
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
It's not just Samsung others are going the same route, LG for instance says it got something similar to KNOX in the pipeline, HTC makes it difficult as possible to root their phones, Sony is also going to follow a similar path to Samsung & LG as they all want the corp market to buy their smartphones and feel safe, sod the general consumer that not interested in any of this.
The option in the near future if you want to tinker without tripping something or blowing an efuse is to buy a Nexus.
Its also because of the data breach that chinese and NSA are doing. They want our phones and its data to be safe. Not like modified system files with backdoors and trojans. So its for our own safety. Yes u can always change the layouts, launchers and other stuff. But changing kernel and rooting devices to use system procedures. These are just for developers and those who actually know abt stuff. Not for the common man.
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Because Samsung need sale by millions on US like Apple but must be very Secured:
Quote from another post:
...The Knox Bootloader that is the first from a new type of bootloaders, block and not permit many things.
To understand what is the Knox and is bootloader and kernel read this:
https://www.samsungknox.com/en/overview/technical-details See also the video How to Use on it...
On the first attachment we see at left the usual Android, at right we see the Android whit the Samsung Security System Knox in white and the usual until now in blue. Whit this System people can have like two phones on one. A personal whit his own appl and a second secured to work on Enterprises and Governments and others.
The Knox Bootloader protect the secured part and not permit the flashing by Odin some files that it consider not secured like the oldest bootloaders. Then the Knox Warranty Void: 0x0 is first of all the Security System Knox secured. 0x1 is not secured.
For example I quote this from that doc/link:
Samsung KNOX offers a multi-faceted security solution rooted in the tamper-resistant device hardware, through the Linux kernel and Android operating system. The first line of defense against malicious attacks, Samsung KNOX is currently approved to run on US Department of Defense networks. (If flag 0x0, my opinion).
fterh said:
Android is supposed to be open, customizable and free, vs iOS.
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Click to collapse
And there's your problem.
Android is open, customizable, and free - at source code level. However, individual implementations (such as Samsung's Touchwiz) have so such requirement to be so.
People like us, who like to hack around with our phones, are not the market that Samsung is aiming for. The vast, vast majority of Samsung Android users are never going to root their phone, manually upgrade/downgrade their firmware via Odin, or install custom ROMs. These users are *never* going to even thing about tripping Knox, let alone do anything that might trip it.
To be fair, Samsung are not alone in this - pretty much all major phone vendors are doing similar. Someone works out how to get S-OFF on the HTC One, and HTC release a patch to prevent it.
Going forward, I see a time coming where if you want to have complete control over your device, you will have to buy a developer edition.
Regards,
Dave
Really? Another thread to whine about Knox?
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ultramag69 said:
These companies get too big and start to dictate what the user wants instead of listening... And when they are sitting pretty on top they tend to stop developing new innovations because "They are the best" and then the item tends to stagnate with VERY little actual developement thrown in. Anything new is a kneejerk reaction to the next up and comer for king of the heap....
They will still say it is for the best of the user but in reality its because they're too damn lazy to work. Then comes the copyright everything attitudeand the litigation and more effort is spent suing others for copyright einfingement than making the latest and greatest, what was Apple"s big thing a while back, oh yeah, lets make it white....
Works well for them and most users who have a hard time working out which end to speak in but not for those who actually want to own, use and control what their device actually does....
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This post basically nails all the reasons in one fell swoop..
And then they are forcing to use original accessories which is really really stupid of Samsung.
Question: Why is Samsung acting like Apple?
Answer: Because Apple is the most successful company in the world.
Do you really need another reason?
aydc said:
Question: Why is Samsung acting like Apple?
Answer: Because Apple is the most successful company in the world.
Do you really need another reason?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
C'mon!!
OK. I've had rooted and hacked everyphohe I've had.. Since Nokia monocromatic days, Sony Ericsson devices and now android... I've used almost every custom ROM.. Applied hundreds of modifications, etc, etc... Trust me. Its funny how ppl complain about software and this Knox thing... Android continues to be on top of iOS for many many reasons... Many many reasons!!
I personally like to root .. Of course but with power comes disorder.. Yes maybe cosmetic custom is one of the reasons for rooting..and its fun. But as it comes with plenty of features so it comes with problems never experienced on stock.. Like freezes, restarts,etc, etc.. U know what am talking about.. Most of us have chosen the Gnote 3 for its innumerable capacities over almost every device on the market. It is a beast. No doubt. For me I haven't seen yet any modification or feature that make me wanna root my note.. It is a beast as it is now. Am not running KK.. Uh uh.. I'll wait for a more completed version... I have more than 15 years using cellphones and customizing them.. And now it seems that companies are getting to know what customers need in their devices .. That's why rooting will no longer be necessary.. Why don't you sit and think about this? I've root my Sgs2 and could have the multi window feature when it came out.. And the list goes and goes.. Arent you able to see we are going to another place now with stock phones?? Actually CM will have its on device sponsored by Google itself !!! See for example the multiple features of the moto x ... It is like R2D2 haha.. Personally I'm happy with the nowadays devices..let s see what's next...
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At least Samsung will not shut down your phone and force update, like Crapple does, on Samsung at least you can disable updates. And blame other users as well for this lockdowns: how many people brick their phones when modding and then at least try to claim warranty repairs or exchange? I don't have to look far, my good friend rooted his Note3 and this made his Gear stop working. Couldn't fix it, so he took it to service center and strangely enough they did fix it for free (he may have unrooted first, I don't know), by bringing all to stock and he is a hacker, perfectly capable of figuring it out, just didn't want to bother I guess. And yes, because Crapple is so successful, many companies will follow suit, so blame all Crapple users as well. If Crapple was a total failure, no one would imitate them.
pete4k said:
At least Samsung will not shut down your phone and force update, like Crapple does, on Samsung at least you can disable updates. And blame other users as well for this lockdowns: how many people brick their phones when modding and then at least try to claim warranty repairs or exchange? I don't have to look far, my good friend rooted his Note3 and this made his Gear stop working. Couldn't fix it, so he took it to service center and strangely enough they did fix it for free (he may have unrooted first, I don't know), by bringing all to stock and he is a hacker, perfectly capable of figuring it out, just didn't want to bother I guess. And yes, because Crapple is so successful, many companies will follow suit, so blame all Crapple users as well. If Crapple was a total failure, no one would imitate them.
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Click to collapse
Soon change in a few years. You'll see Samsung become more and more like Apple in time.
Samsung used to be just another Korean electronics company, like what LG is today. Then they started copying Apple. The more they copied Apple, the more successful they became. It's this simple. Believe it. If you do what successful people do, you become successful. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it doesn't work.
aydc said:
Samsung used to be just another Korean electronics company, like what LG is today. Then they started copying Apple. The more they copied Apple, the more successful they became. It's this simple. Believe it. If you do what successful people do, you become successful. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it doesn't work.
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Click to collapse
Just like the sales of apple is now falling I believe it will also happen to samsung.
Another thing not related to your comment since they've stopped allot people from rooting and developing due to the warranty issues. Development is Damn slow now. Like they did with gokhanmoral (think thats how you spell it all credits to him) with the s2 they had cherry picked from his kernel tree to implement into the stock to make stock run even smoother. Now there's only really one kernel in development for the international model compared to what previous phones had where there were quite a range.
What's the point of having really high end specs if you can't really exploit them? and sticking to something which much lower and play 'safe'.
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So now we know that we are getting oreo lets talk about P.
According to the article, we should get P because currently, they don't have many devices to work on. Also states the V20 is eligible for P. That's up to LG now.
https://www.theandroidsoul.com/android-p-release-date/#jump-lg
dudeawsome said:
So now we know that we are getting oreo lets talk about P.
According to the article, we should get P because currently, they don't have many devices to work on. Also states the V20 is eligible for P. That's up to LG now.
https://www.theandroidsoul.com/android-p-release-date/#jump-lg
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without the ability to root I will not be staying with this device or any other LG for that matter long enough to think about P
P? Pfft we haven't even seen Oreo yet
Sent from my LG-H910 using XDA Labs
I said this in one of runningnak3d's threads, but these Android releases are becoming increasingly pointless and only serve to have Google find more ways to lock us out of customizing our devices under the guise of being up-to-date with the latest software. I have no interest in Android P.
https://www.xda-developers.com/android-p-blocks-custom-overlays-substratum-themes/
Also, they seem hellbent on this rounded corner crap. Welcome to web design and desktop computing in 2005. Stupid.
cnjax said:
P? Pfft we haven't even seen Oreo yet
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Was just putting the info out. I don't even know if I'll have the V20 that long.
Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
WTF - overlays have to be signed now?!? Yes, if you are rooted, you can install your own cert, or patch the cert check out, but that is just ------ WTF?!?
I understand a lot of the security that is in place, but to add security where it isn't needed just so you can keep your LOOK -- SMFH.
All I can say is support Lineage as much as you can (I am), and don't buy phones that are locked down. Google really is trying to turn Android into Windows. Remember how easy it was to modify Windows 95, 98 -- you could replace the entire shell. XP (and even Vista, 7, and 8) you could theme very easily. Then came Win 10. Yes, you can still theme it, but since it is a rolling release, MS is making it harder and harder. Eventually Stardock will give up.
When Android was released, it was so open that you could change pretty much anything, but they are doing the same thing -- locking it down more and more.
We need a third choice. Win Phone wasn't it, and I don't know of any contenders right now that have a chance. This sucks -- it is MS and Apple all over again, only Google replaced MS.
-- Brian
runningnak3d said:
Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
WTF - overlays have to be signed now?!? Yes, if you are rooted, you can install your own cert, or patch the cert check out, but that is just ------ WTF?!?
I understand a lot of the security that is in place, but to add security where it isn't needed just so you can keep your LOOK -- SMFH.
All I can say is support Lineage as much as you can (I am), and don't buy phones that are locked down. Google really is trying to turn Android into Windows. Remember how easy it was to modify Windows 95, 98 -- you could replace the entire shell. XP (and even Vista, 7, and 8) you could theme very easily. Then came Win 10. Yes, you can still theme it, but since it is a rolling release, MS is making it harder and harder. Eventually Stardock will give up.
When Android was released, it was so open that you could change pretty much anything, but they are doing the same thing -- locking it down more and more.
We need a third choice. Win Phone wasn't it, and I don't know of any contenders right now that have a chance. This sucks -- it is MS and Apple all over again, only Google replaced MS.
-- Brian
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree this really sucks they are moving more and more towards IOS where they lock you in and you can't do much if anything at all. I mean that's the reason I am on Android is becuase of the ability to do more and customize. They need to rethink this and start to let us do what we want. We don't need another IOS leave that to Apple. The freedom to build and customize is what Android is all about and it is sad to see it is going away slowly. Time for the Dev community to build their own os.
Good to hear. I've had mine over a year and hope to have it for a few more. That's why I chose a device with a swappable battery.
One of the reasons AST was developed to demonstrate rooting can be used to perform 100% legitimate and non-criminal operations on a device that a user paid for both hardware and software patent fees. The vendor, have been misleading the market to believe "rooting" and criminal operations are correlated. What AST does is what Android itself offers but a non-rooted user has been locked out of what user has paid for, injustice. Furthermore, the very same vendor that have actively been trying to demise its rival platforms creates an independency on rival's platform to elevate privileges so the user of device can perform tasks that ordinarily unable to do on their own device, referring to 'adb' and how stupid is that? Locking users out of their own device, in the name of security, is a false pretence. This is to appease and serve other corporations that need assurances for their investments WHEN the biggest investors are the users whom are paying for everything but have no say in anything at all because we are "individuals".
You can't find any other business model, at this scale, where consumers are expected to pay considerable amount of money initially for a device that its platform is designed not only to ripp off your wallet even more but also to put a tap on you. As as long as you continue using it, you keep consenting to be controlled and monitored. Right before mobile phones, there were talks about RFID being implanted under skins of citizens to control their movements and more. In that model, not a single citizen would had paid for the RFID implants but now we would queue for days to pay for a new mobile phone.
Like many of you in these forums, I have the sentiment that root privilege is my automatic right to have and I'm not even seeking approval, affirmation, or legal recognition when the very same system issues it can nullify it too.
The only language corporations understand is the language of business, not the boring human/consumers rights. Here is one; why corporations pay billions of dollars to other entities to show us adverts? Why don't they pay consumers to watch their adverts instead? The whole infrastructure for this is already in place, if you have a wallet account with "the vendor", you are set. Here is more business language and mentality for you. If showing adverts to consumers is that precious/vital to your business, as owning a flagship device is to your own typical demographics, then consumers would want a piece of that pie too. Why not? They have invested in paying for all the devices your business platform needed and they want a return, exactly the way you "expect" to have a return for your investments. Don't worry, we will register a limited company or operate under an existing one and pay our taxes to our respective governments the way you do.
Excuse my "politech" rant today.
Google is trying their hardest! to keep up with apple. Apple is already into their own space... DO NOT LOSE YOUR EMAIL OR FACTORY REST YOUR iDEVICE OR SUFFER OUR WRAITH,
Thats why am sticking with the v20 for a while. I dont think there's no more flagships being made with removable batteries.
Sprint's LG v20 has rolled out Oreo 8.0.0
loudawg11 said:
Sprint's LG v20 has rolled out Oreo 8.0.0
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Click to collapse
Yeah like three months ago
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cnjax said:
Yeah like three months ago
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Click to collapse
Sorry I'm late to the v20 party but I just pick it up 2days ago. Glad to see it updated to Oreo. It replaced my Note 3
No more android p for v20, i guess look elsewhere.
There's rumors that LG will release Android pie to the lgv20. Late September 2019. That will sure be a treat.
The sad thing about it is it is supposed to be free from being lock in to app's and yet there is app's I don't use and don't need that keep running in the background that I can't control and there updating constantly using my monthly data paying for stuff that Google have put in my device the only way to get rid off them is rooting that means unlock bootloader put in recovery then root it.........
Just seen that the LG is going to update V20 to 9.0 and it's a fresh link from Android authority about 14 hours back
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.androidauthority.com/android-9-0-update-880718/amp/
Nagesh_Gv said:
Just seen that the LG is going to update V20 to 9.0 and it's a fresh link from Android authority about 14 hours back
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.androidauthority.com/android-9-0-update-880718/amp/
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Click to collapse
I just hope they don't screw with their promise this time, it took 1+ year delay for oreo to be available on my region
I'll be expecting it to arrive at the end of Q4 on IDN region, hopefully..
LOL!!! that was funniest link i have ever seen... Im still on 8.0 on my stock V20 .. let alone 9 !!!
The other forum in XDA too posted the same that LG want to update v20 to p.