Okay, so I just bought the XZ premium and mostly I am happy with it; the speed is good, screen is nice etc.
However, my friend just got the pixel 2, and holy crap that camera is amazing! Yes it has hardware in order to do the post processing, but as I understand it, that is purely for speed? Technically, other cameras should be able to achieve similar results with software algorithms right? So I went to download the apk for the camera app, and it simply will not function on my xz premium. Can somebody explain to me like I'm 12, why this is the case, and what is stopping us from getting similar results from what should be a superior sensor?
From reading different posts, I understand it has something to do with the camera2api, but I haven't a clue what this is in practical terms, or what steps would need to be taken to get it working.
Thanks!
So things are like this. Google developed some time ago some algorithms that use "black magic" to make the pictures look awesome, even if it's a phone camera. But for the algorithms to work, phones need to have implemented the full support of Camera2 API, which, since Android Lollipop, unlocks new possibilities for developers to work with the camera and have more low level customization options (like focus, ISO, shutter speed, RAW support). Now, our phone supports Camera2 API, but sadly it's not the full implementation of it. What we are missing is RAW support (that is support for our phone to be able to take photos unedited by the post processing algorithms). Because of that, our phone supports only a LIMITED implementation of Camera2 API, not the FULL one. And the HDR+ algorithms that Google Camera uses need FULL Camera2 APi support, especially RAW support. That's the reason why we can't use HDR+ on the XZP (or any Sony phone).
The reason Sony doesn't implement RAW support isn't known. But clues point to the fact that, by implementing RAW support, they think the phones will cannibalize their cameras department. Since Sony is a japanese company, it has japanese mentality, and in Japan many people carry with them their dedicated cameras everyday for taking photos. Sony thinks it will lose that public if they implement a perfect camera in their phones.
Regarding the steps you need, there is nothing you can do to get it working in the stock software, since it's Sony job to implement RAW support in their ROM. You can get Camera2 API support if you unlock your bootloader and install a custom ROM or use Magisk to enable it, but unlocking the bootloader comes with completely new problems.
Thanks, that's a very good overview, and clarifies the dilemma for me!
I'm now going to sign up to the Sony forums and add my voice to the calls to implement the full API. If all the rumours are true I doubt it will make a difference, but if we don't ask, we don't get.
The pixel 2 bokeh effect really is stunning, and its low light post processing performance is incredible. Sony should realise that its dedicated camera business model (for the casual market) is doomed, and start actively converting users before they jump ship.
I wouldn't say the camera department is doomed, just a few months ago, I bought their 180€ WX220, and it's still magnitudes of order better than any smartphone cam, plus comes with 10x optical zoom.
Though for the actual problem, @Artyomska pretty much already said everything. I personally am hoping for some driver updates to add the missing RAW support, either directly from Sony or from some fantastic modders.
Related
I love this mode from my Huawei ascend mate 7, i could take pictures of the stars.
With the new and approved Galaxy S7 camera, i would like this mode added.
With a mod or other method.
Yes, that would interest me.
If someone can port the Huawei camera app to the S7, maybe it'll work, but that's about the only way.
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I'm sure it can be done. The S7's camera has fantastic low light capabilities, so to be able to port over a software setting to optimize night pics like that should be doable. Samsung will probably update their stock camera software to include that ability soon. With the developments of HTC, Sony, Samsung, and LG (Ibelieve the G5 will be the device to watch this year. With their modular camera accessories, they can continue to improve the hardware with the same device. It's a brilliant concept), I expect smartphone camera technology to be able to take perfectly professional pictures in the very near future
52brandon said:
I'm sure it can be done. The S7's camera has fantastic low light capabilities, so to be able to port over a software setting to optimize night pics like that should be doable. Samsung will probably update their stock camera software to include that ability soon. With the developments of HTC, Sony, Samsung, and LG (Ibelieve the G5 will be the device to watch this year. With their modular camera accessories, they can continue to improve the hardware with the same device. It's a brilliant concept), I expect smartphone camera technology to be able to take perfectly professional pictures in the very near future
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That is bullocks.. The camera stays the same.. And the camera on the G5 isnt that special. They can only improve Software not the hardware....
You can easily take a photo of the stars by tinkering on the pro mode.
Simply look at the lowest ISO and decreasing the shutter speed. You will need to stablise your phone of course.
52brandon said:
I'm sure it can be done. The S7's camera has fantastic low light capabilities, so to be able to port over a software setting to optimize night pics like that should be doable. Samsung will probably update their stock camera software to include that ability soon. With the developments of HTC, Sony, Samsung, and LG (Ibelieve the G5 will be the device to watch this year. With their modular camera accessories, they can continue to improve the hardware with the same device. It's a brilliant concept), I expect smartphone camera technology to be able to take perfectly professional pictures in the very near future
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Click to collapse
So people are gullible enough to believe LG can add sth else apart from batteries with their module? The only other possibility is a lens attachment which won't change much. The G5 isn't that modular in the real sense of the word. The camera won't change.
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In pro mode select aperture settings and select 10, this sets the exposure to 10 seconds, with this you can achieve amazing photos of the sky and and milky way, very impressive for a phone.
Why you need that app for that?
Already available on the S7 in Pro Mode.
I've been a long time Xperia user. Currently have the Z3 and plan to move up to XZ. The Z3 camera is a so so. Beaten by Samsung and iPhone easily. The Z3 is flare galore and I have 2 of them purchased at different times so it is not a sampling issue.
The Xperia XZ is now advertised as "Our camera know-how, in a smartphone". With all those fancy laser focus, high megapixels, and quick focus; yet, from the following review, iPhone 7 beats the XZ in terms of IQ and resolution. Resolution, at least, in the blue colors.
Please tell me the review above is incorrect and the XZ camera is at least comparable to iPhone 7.
From my experience with my XP vs iPhone 6 the iPhone almost always adheres true to the experience detailed in this video.
I would anticipate that the video comparison is true to past form which seemingly continues through to the XZ/iPhone7 stand off.
Unfortunate yes. Somehow iphone are always sh!tting on Sony's camera advances.
You'd be forgiven to think Sony would have the upper hand in atleast the camera department. But it's just not the case. Sure the XZ is going to have a great camera, but I would assume the conclusion from the video would remain true.
Albeit first hand comparisons are required to judge for self. Even then, unfortunately I foresee I'd probably end up concurring with the btekt guys conclusion (based on historical trends with what Sony and indeed iPhone bring to the table with each respective iteration.)
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Watching above video, I noticed that his xperia xz camera was in manual mode and not in default values because settings icon turned blue.
Pictures of low light seem over exposure with xperia. I don't think it was on default setting.
I doubt the video is unbiased. Just my cents.
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Sony just developed these new sensors.. and as always they need a lot of time to tweak the software in order for everything to work correctly and as it should. Basically it is happening with every sony device. So let's be patiend and see how the XZ is going to.. ''evolve''.
effective said:
Sony just developed these new sensors.. and as always they need a lot of time to tweak the software in order for everything to work correctly and as it should. Basically it is happening with every sony device. So let's be patiend and see how the XZ is going to.. ''evolve''.
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Exactly, it really does not seem to be "default" setting for Sony.
But will need to test low light pictures on my own to get the clue.
I know how it was with Z5, I really hope this time they are doing proper testing before putting it into the boxes...
I had never seen a sony phone that in it's first or second release rom the camera or overall experience is good. a couple or rom updates, and then it could give more fight.
Anyway, it's a shame that sony develop the iphone camera's sensors, but for own usage, they use (IHMO) the less good. OR, the camera software by sony is a crap.
In my experiences with Xperia videography (from Z2 onwards) it's best to deactivate Scene Autodetection because it stops camera software over-compensating when perhaps you don't want/need it to ...
Whilst I think the iPhone records superb video, so does my XP (and so did my Z2, Z3+, Z5C) ... I'd be hard pressed to tell you which is which in blind testing.
The XZ I have on order should only improve the Sony videography.
Also, have you tried recording stereo sound with your video on the iPhone? It's a hassle and can't be done without addons (I'm pretty sure the iPhone 7(+) still records monaural unless someone can correct me?)
Smartphone Photography belongs to Apple.
Smartphone Videography, the motion picture, *could* belong to Sony if they get their marketing right (and their thermals lol)
Can you change white balance settings (not just the tint) in video mode? There is a video on YouTube comparing it to the iPhone 6 Plus and the WB control on the XZ is terrible - it shifts whenever the camera moves to the tables while the iPhone is fairly stable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNFsnQg3cG8
It is a personal point of view but Sony is way better than 6s... At least for me and from this comparison.
Sent from my HTC 10 using XDA-Developers mobile app
Camera review
A few things that occur to me with any cam comparison is what the photographers knowledge/skill is and, as mentioned above, what settings were used. Those things affect the final output of the camera. I try to determine if their knowledge/skill is similar to mine. Then I can determine if I could have possibly gotten a better picture or not in a similar situation.
Try to find comparison photos on the web from the cameras you want to compare. Make sure they're not altered and that you know what settings were used. Each phone has it's own signature on the picture and you may prefer a certain phone's "photo look" over another. Some phones are good in some conditions, some are better in others. Some are good overall, but not great in any one area. Determine what matters to you most.
Beyond the actual photo quality, there's the user experience that must also be considered. Focus speed, shutter responsiveness, app ease-of-use...that all makes a difference.
Iphone has better cameras. I'm ashamed of my 23megapixel camera
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I am completely disappointed with the camera app, it is a God damn joke of an app and wrote about it on Sony forum as well. I suggest you do the same if you are as disappointed as I am. I even consider returning the phone.
Sony thread where you can complain hoping it will make a difference : https://talk.sonymobile.com/t5/Software-Updates/Camera2-API/m-p/1236129/highlight/false#M36584
For the benefit of future owners or prospecting owners, here are the issues I am unhappy with:
- no leveling indicator tool
- no histogram
- half press shutter button does not release the shutter for every press. If you do the first half press for focus, then you can release the shutter only once if the button is still half press. Completely defies the purpose of a dedicated shutter button if I cannot keep the focus locked and release as many times as I want. Every Camera in the world does that.
- no manual ISO and manual shutter speed at the same time? WHAT?? Are you stupid Sony? I WANT to use a TRIPOD and WANT FULL MANUAL CONTROL.
- shutter speed limited at 1s max, 1/10 for other camera apps
- every time I start the camera app it defaults to inteligent auto, instead of starting with latest mode used. If I used manual, I will most likely use manual again, don't default me because you want so
- on top of horrible jpeg cooking you DO NOT OFFER RAW SUPPORT. FFS Sony, you marketed the camera for photographers, you need to offer RAW support that is part of camera api2
- don't get me started with the distortion issue
As a daily a7r2 user, I was excited about your new sensor and tech, but as a first time xperia owner I am completely disappointed. Still in returning window period, I might go for a P10 plus or G6 for better cameras.
I know there will be no response and I don't care, I hope someone will at least read it.
Just return it and stop complaining.
Get an S8 or whatever.
---------- Post added at 09:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:28 AM ----------
Just return it and stop complaining.
Get an S8 or whatever.
jaseman said:
Just return it and stop complaining.
Get an S8 or whatever.
---------- Post added at 09:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:28 AM ----------
Just return it and stop complaining.
Get an S8 or whatever.
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What a toxic attitude. Everything the OP had said is a real problem that Sony has. For such an expensive phone, the camera is really lacking in options, and a bit in photos quality. RAW support especially should be a must for every flagship.
Ladduro said:
I am completely disappointed with the camera app, it is a God damn joke of an app and wrote about it on Sony forum as well. I suggest you do the same if you are as disappointed as I am. I even consider returning the phone.
Sony thread where you can complain hoping it will make a difference : https://talk.sonymobile.com/t5/Software-Updates/Camera2-API/m-p/1236129/highlight/false#M36584
For the benefit of future owners or prospecting owners, here are the issues I am unhappy with:
- no leveling indicator tool
- no histogram
- half press shutter button does not release the shutter for every press. If you do the first half press for focus, then you can release the shutter only once if the button is still half press. Completely defies the purpose of a dedicated shutter button if I cannot keep the focus locked and release as many times as I want. Every Camera in the world does that.
- no manual ISO and manual shutter speed at the same time? WHAT?? Are you stupid Sony? I WANT to use a TRIPOD and WANT FULL MANUAL CONTROL.
- shutter speed limited at 1s max, 1/10 for other camera apps
- every time I start the camera app it defaults to inteligent auto, instead of starting with latest mode used. If I used manual, I will most likely use manual again, don't default me because you want so
- on top of horrible jpeg cooking you DO NOT OFFER RAW SUPPORT. FFS Sony, you marketed the camera for photographers, you need to offer RAW support that is part of camera api2
- don't get me started with the distortion issue
As a daily a7r2 user, I was excited about your new sensor and tech, but as a first time xperia owner I am completely disappointed. Still in returning window period, I might go for a P10 plus or G6 for better cameras.
I know there will be no response and I don't care, I hope someone will at least read it.
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I have my own complaints regarding Sony but they don't rise to this level. The reason Sony doesn't implement these features is that you are probably the only person who buys a phone for serious photographic purposes. That is too small a market for them to change the software.
PS: have you tried footej or camera FV apps? Those combined with sony hardware should give you better results.
najoor said:
I have my own complaints regarding Sony but they don't rise to this level. The reason Sony doesn't implement these features is that you are probably the only person who buys a phone for serious photographic purposes. That is too small a market for them to change the software.
PS: have you tried footej or camera FV apps? Those combined with sony hardware should give you better results.
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I agree the market is small, but at least they should try and stay competitive with other brands. If others offers something, they should do it to match the offerings.
najoor said:
I have my own complaints regarding Sony but they don't rise to this level. The reason Sony doesn't implement these features is that you are probably the only person who buys a phone for serious photographic purposes. That is too small a market for them to change the software.
PS: have you tried footej or camera FV apps? Those combined with sony hardware should give you better results.
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No, I'm with him there. I used my G4 for extensive (!) photography. The hardware is extremely capable. As Sony promised "a full manual mode", I expected a full manual mode. Not a "chose one option, but not two or more...for...REASONS!!" manual mode.
Well, at least you get a picture, after rooting, i get everything green
Try to get another third party app
SonicFlare said:
Well, at least you get a picture, after rooting, i get everything green
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How come u didn't do the drm fix?
Oh, there was a typo in title, *than
One of the main reason I installed AOSP while breaking my drm is, Google Camera HDR+ makes Xperia Cameras wonderful too
There were several actual photos took by xperia with google camera, so I thought my phone's camera would get great too
However, the photos that I took with my XZP are noisy, and all the small details like small letters got away.
I guess it might be because of broken DRM, since it disables noise reduction function of the camera, but then how can others get better photos with their rooted xperia with google camera.
Do you guys know if there's a solution for this?
Actually I started to regret I shouldn't unlock my phone and keep using it as stock, but my DRM's already gone and DRM fix is just a temporal solution... since my DRM's gone forever.
It's not that bad with my phone, but maybe settings have something to do with it. HDR makes it sharper for some reason and I use:
Support level override: NEXUS_2015
Config Camera: Pixel 2017 (DR Dogfood)
HDR+ burst frame count: 8
The rest is probably default. But you can always return to stock and use storm's drm hack, then you have the normal quality camera again.
I've tried that settings, but the result stays noisy too
It seems like there's no way to improve image quality of XZP
If you install AOSP rom to use Google HDR+, the phone will kill the noise reduction so the result gets terribly noisy since DRMfix doesn't support stock based roms.
If you install Sony stock based roms, you can't use Google HDR+ due to lack of camera 2 API support.
Also as AOSP with Google camera yields worse outcome than stock rom, maybe it's really pointless thing to unlock your XZP to get better image qualities.
But it's too late to regret because my DRM has gone forever.
well you dont have to feel bad true that you lost your own drm keys but installing stock based rom with drm fix is the same as official stock and even smoother and better optimized plus you get all the cool features of root so a guy like you gets the root and drm fix that works the same as official and a guy like me is in official drm but bored cuz its not rooted so in both ways there is a compromise..
as I already said, sony has the best hardware on a device. EVER!
4k HRD? 120hz screen thats MAD but cant use it XD
sony cameras are sold to all companies cuz its the best but they use scripts to make it look worse (on purpose in my opinion)
in other words, sony cares about other companies cuz they make them a lot more money than their customers and as I heard they have a contract with other companies that uses their camera and sony is not allowed to make a device that has better cameras and they dont care you know why? cuz other companies make them ALOT MORE money than their own customers.
and advertising the device as it has 4k that doesnt work all the time, and a surprisingly 120hz support that is useless and a good camera (that sucks cuz of their own software) is just LOW of sony to do! promising cool features that exist but never actually having to use them is just FOR ADVERTISEMENT PURPOSE this is my last device from sony unless its a high end video camera from sony then yes, but other than that, sony is not worth it...
Hey, All...
I'm on the newest 9.5.7 on my 12/256 OP7P that I ordered direct from OP.
Although the updates are making the camera better, I still can't wrap my mind around how there can be such a detail and focus issue between photos and apps on the SAME device. To me, that means that it's software that is the issue, and not actually hardware quality...
Here's a comparison of two photos I took with the same conditions in the same distance in the same lighting. One is from the G cam app on my OnePlus 7 Pro and the other is from the stock camera on my OnePlus 7 Pro How can there be such a difference?
Needless to say, the photo that looks better and has much more detail is from the G cam app
To be totally transparent, I also have a Pixel 3XL that I use
Thanks for helping me understand!
Yay for black cats! I have one, too.
Anyhoo, if you're trying to understand the difference in quality between Google's software and OP's, I don't think it's fair. Google's software for their camera is the best on the market. Even the likes of Samsung haven't beaten them yet (for still images and night shots). Personally, I'm happy with the stock camera performance on this 7 Pro because I don't really demand the bleeding edge camera performance on a phone. Not to suggest that you require that, most of us just want usable pics to share online with each other.
Pixel 3a is $400 and has the second best camera (behind the regular Pixel 3) on the market. For some folks, the camera is the number one reason for choosing their phone. For me, it's like number 4 on my list. I didn't like the 6T performance because even for regular shots that I shared online, it was hot garbage. But they've made enough improvement to it on this 7 Pro to make day to day living and photo shooting fair enough. When I need just that much more quality (especially at low light), I just use the Gcam.
There is a lot of software voodoo going on to improve pictures. It isn't just capture the image, and there it is. Lots of processing goes on to take the raw data and convert it into an image.
Google has some smart people working there to have their code to some real good work.
stuff said:
There is a lot of software voodoo going on to improve pictures. It isn't just capture the image, and there it is. Lots of processing goes on to take the raw data and convert it into an image.
Google has some smart people working there to have their code to some real good work.
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I wonder how good the actual hardware is on the pixel 3xl camera compared to the OP7P then, lol.
KillerQ said:
I wonder how good the actual hardware is on the pixel 3xl camera compared to the OP7P then, lol.
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In my opinion, I don't think it's any better or worse tbh. The capability of the camera application is crucial.
Google put all their effort into taking the best "auto" photos it can conjure up. That's why there doesn't exist the ability to manually change it.
But that camera app is also designed specifically for that HW camera (whichever hw model Pixel it is).
Google just knows what they are doing in that dept.
stuff said:
There is a lot of software voodoo going on to improve pictures. It isn't just capture the image, and there it is. Lots of processing goes on to take the raw data and convert it into an image.
Google has some smart people working there to have their code to some real good work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
stuff said:
In my opinion, I don't think it's any better or worse tbh. The capability of the camera application is crucial.
Google put all their effort into taking the best "auto" photos it can conjure up. That's why there doesn't exist the ability to manually change it.
But that camera app is also designed specifically for that HW camera (whichever hw model Pixel it is).
Google just knows what they are doing in that dept.
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So, this means, as soon as someone comes up with an amazing G cam port for our phone, we'll be sitting pretty just like everyone else.
KillerQ said:
So, this means, as soon as someone comes up with an amazing G cam port for our phone, we'll be sitting pretty just like everyone else.
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Don't take my word 100% on it, but I believe that is the case.