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[Discussion] Quality of Camera's on Phones

It would be nice to hear some opinions on this following thoughts I've had, ever since I upgraded my phone last year from an iPhone 3G (2.5mp camera I think) to an Xperia Arc S, which at the time was the highest quality / size MP camera on a phone at 8MP, which is still a decent size for a phone camera today, as mid-ranged phones usually start at around 5-8MP and the super smart phones these days are running upward of 10MP, I think 13MP is the highest, at least on Android, that Nokia Symbian phone was like... 42MP? Or at least the fidelity / quality resembled that due to its massive lens housing, god knows what was in there, but if I remember rightly it was only 5MP images... Someone correct me.
Anyway, with my Arc S at 8MP, the images are fairly decent, I mean they're never going to be used for print, so it doesn't really need to be higher. However, as an art graduate, I spend time when I can taking photographs, and I have a 14MP Sony NEX 5, which as standard is already a better quality sensor than the tiny ones that make it into a phone.
My first point is it's still only 1MP higher than these smartphones, which makes me think; say I upgrade my phone in 1 year when 16MP is the highest, now we've gone over, for me I'm reluctant to go higher than my camera because I'd probably be swayed to using the phone more for photography, though the phones would probably have to be double the MP of a decent camera to really compare.
Secondly, Lenses, well the one on my Arc S is fairly standard, though probably more complex than some others as I think it has 7 layers of various shaped pieces of glass. But when it comes down to it, any photographer will tell you it's almost 100% the lens that really makes a photograph what it is, the phones are getting better quality, but the lenses probably aren't, the phones are constantly trying to get thinner which doesn't help matters, but phones have actually gotten fatter sue to bigger screens needing bigger battery, so I'm unsure on this part of the topic.
The lenses I use on my NEX are Canon FD mounts, a format from the early to mid 70's all the way up to about 1994, they are manual lenses because of their age and incompatibility with modern auto-focus, but the quality is superb, and I'm not just saying it, one of the lenses is a 1.4 50mm prime, and can do some great shots, though the camera isn't full frame so the lens works out at 75mm, but I also have a 28mm 2.2 (I think?) prime, which works out around 42mm and is really good.
Both lenses are dated between 1972 and 1982, and no current phone could replicate the fidelity, bokeh and colour, which is one of the reasons why proper cameras will always have the advantage. (The NEX doesn't have a mirror inside so can replicate the original setup of older cameras easily, meaning a huge number of adaptors allows tons of different lenses to become available)
However with the Nokia pureview phone (still don't remember its name... 850?...) It had a body capable of housing some very interesting tech, that hasn't really been used since, at least to my knowledge. Seeing some pictures online really showed you what this phone was capable of, I think the resolution of the images were in the ten thousands X whatever, and remained really sharp, for a phone at least. Maybe it's lack of success is due to it been on a non-leading OS at the time, I can imagine people would want a camera with maybe an Android phone? (Which apparently, Nokia are working on) so maybe it will see it's true colours shine on a larger base OS. If this tech is worth the larger body size of a phone, people are going to want it...
And lastly, Convenience. One of the main points of having a camera is to be able to capture moments WHENEVER, and having a decent camera on a phone has been a growing trend over the past few years, with the growth of social networks, YouTube and Instagram. And you're more likely to have a phone with you than a camera for a situation that's spontaneous.
So what are peoples thoughts? A few months back Jessops one of the leading camera sales company in the UK went into administration, with only a few stores been saved;
Will we see a heightening trend amongst phones been used instead of standalone cameras?
Will they (DSLR's etc) be phased out completely?
Are you an avid photographer with your phone, or do you use a standalone camera?
Am I wrong?
I'd like to hear some opinions, hopefuly some educated ones on the subject will give a sense on the spectrum of issues.
Another point to consider, Smart-Cameras, the new trend of cameras running Android, though I don't think any have interchangeable lenses.
Thanks for reading, also... You may need to change some 'if's to 'of's because my phone has a habit of changing my words.
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I use my phone for everyday rubbish shots (whatsapp and such) and storing information (bustimes, lists, important stuff i take a snapshot of.) .
It will NEVER replace my DSLR.
It simply lacks the functionalities of one. So long as I can't set aperture and change lenses, it's not a real camera. I need my telezoom and macro lenses.
You can't seriously expect a phone, even that 42mp one to be as high - quality as a dslr. Too many pixels crammed into way too small a sensor. As it has always been with phones.
Not to mention, phones lack the power of a dslr. Ever tried taking nightshots with a phone? They're bad. Very bad. Or high speed shots. Nuhuh, they cant. Or far-zoom?
Lets face it, cameras on phones are not meant for professionals. They're meant for people on facebook, twitter and instagram.
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ShadowLea said:
I use my phone for everyday rubbish shots (whatsapp and such) and storing information (bustimes, lists, important stuff i take a snapshot of.) .
It will NEVER replace my DSLR.
It simply lacks the functionalities of one. So long as I can't set aperture and change lenses, it's not a real camera. I need my telezoom and macro lenses.
You can't seriously expect a phone, even that 42mp one to be as high - quality as a dslr. Too many pixels crammed into way too small a sensor. As it has always been with phones.
Not to mention, phones lack the power of a dslr. Ever tried taking nightshots with a phone? They're bad. Very bad. Or high speed shots. Nuhuh, they cant. Or far-zoom?
Lets face it, cameras on phones are not meant for professionals. They're meant for people on facebook, twitter and instagram.
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Man how can you compare a DSLR with a smartphone camera??, a DSLR is a camera with an awesome quality and the smartphone camera is only a phone with a decent camera and not for pro- photographers.. i would always choose a DLSR over a smartphone camera. And by the way i agree with ShadowLea that you can't cram 42mp in a small lens!!! it is outrageous!

Well, it's to do with trends, if you agree or not is a different matter, but lots of pro photographers and teachers will tell you if you ask, about how important this new revolution is, the quality you can get is pretty good, even compared to digital cameras less than 10 years ago.
If it can take photographs then it's a valid form, there are pro photographers then spend lots of their time using phones for photography, 5MP and decent light is enough, some of these phones are better quality than the point and shoot cameras of recent past.
Instagram, though trendy is a very valid post processing tool, just because the majority of people use it recreationaly it doesn't diminish its power, and usage.
People use Polaroid cameras all the time, and they're quite limited, and the quality can vary greatly. You can't change the lens, and you can't really adjust any settings.
Polaroid is probably most comparable to the quality of the mid range smartphones.
As for the Nokia 41MP camera phone, if you actually look at the images you can get a good sense of the quality. The short article can be found here:
http://www.extremetech.com/electron...review-camera-finally-coming-to-windows-phone
You can also easily find examples by doing an image search on Nokia Pureview.
The convenience of a very good quality camera phone can allow for great photos, which is why it's really taking off as a trend.
Denying it is the same arguments as saying Digital is better than Film, though there are still counter arguments, benefits and people still use film cameras and Polaroid.
There's a statistic recently that goes something like; there have been more photographs taken in 2012 than all previous years since photography's invention combined.
I'm not sure if that's word for word correct, but I think it was on a Vsauce YouTube video not long back.
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I think you need to understand that Professional stands for "getting paid for your work" or "being an accomplished/awarded photographer" and not "I can hold a camera!".
Yes, there have been more photo's taken in the last year than since the invention of the photograph. I do hope you are also aware that this includes every halfbrained moron on Instagram and Facebook posting their friday-night drunk shots.
No selfrespecting real photographer uses a phone's camera for his or her work. The only ones that do are either A, doing an experiment, or B, people on the internet fooling themselves into thinking they're photographers.
PHONE CAMERAS DO NOT HAVE APERATURE SETTINGS. And that's where it all ends. There isn't a single pro or semi-pro who uses a fixed aperature camera.
42MP doesn't make a bloody difference if the sensor is meant for 2MP. The photo's may look fine on the internet, but newsflash: Your monitor is 72DPI, not 300. And a 6000x6000 pixel image is always going to look amazing when downsized to 1920x1080 or lower. (which is what every website does.)
As for trends, they're for the common cattle, not semi/professionals. People with knowledge and experience pay attention to specs, not to hypes.
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ShadowLea said:
I think you need to understand that Professional stands for "getting paid for your work" or "being an accomplished/awarded photographer" and not "I can hold a camera!".
Yes, there have been more photo's taken in the last year than since the invention of the photograph. I do hope you are also aware that this includes every halfbrained moron on Instagram and Facebook posting their friday-night drunk shots.
No selfrespecting real photographer uses a phone's camera for his or her work. The only ones that do are either A, doing an experiment, or B, people on the internet fooling themselves into thinking they're photographers.
PHONE CAMERAS DO NOT HAVE APERATURE SETTINGS. And that's where it all ends. There isn't a single pro or semi-pro who uses a fixed aperature camera.
42MP doesn't make a bloody difference if the sensor is meant for 2MP. The photo's may look fine on the internet, but newsflash: Your monitor is 72DPI, not 300. And a 6000x6000 pixel image is always going to look amazing when downsized to 1920x1080 or lower. (which is what every website does.)
As for trends, they're for the common cattle, not semi/professionals. People with knowledge and experience pay attention to specs, not to hypes.
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I think you're missing my point, I meant professional photographers that use iPhones for photography for non print, recreation, street photography etc.
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For those interested in hearing a pro talk about it, I present, Chase Jarvis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buDa-m65RyA&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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Camera auto mode is horrible

Is anyone experiencing this, I don't see many threads?
Tonight I did a camera comparison with a friends IPhone 6 and the IPhone 6 was far superior in every sense. Images from the Z3 generally seem grainy and lack detail and sharpness.
I see a few people have mentioned that the camera is better of you manually set the options. This isn't what a smartphone is for when you need to snap a quick shot, by the time you've done all that you've missed the moment.
I swapped my LG G3 (which also took better shots) for this and I'm really underwhelmed by the camera on the Z3, which ironically is its main selling point.
Can anyone suggest some third party camera apps which would perform better?
Also do you think Sony will fix this, i owned the original Z and can recall having some camera issues. I didn't think they would still be present 4 years on.
The Z3 camera was hyped up so much, I really can't see why. Great on paper, not so good in the real world.

Xperia Z3 D6603
rm83855 said:
Is anyone experiencing this, I don't see many threads?
Tonight I did a camera comparison with a friends IPhone 6 and the IPhone 6 was far superior in every sense. Images from the Z3 generally seem grainy and lack detail and sharpness.
I see a few people have mentioned that the camera is better of you manually set the options. This isn't what a smartphone is for when you need to snap a quick shot, by the time you've done all that you've missed the moment.
I swapped my LG G3 (which also took better shots) for this and I'm really underwhelmed by the camera on the Z3, which ironically is its main selling point.
Can anyone suggest some third party camera apps which would perform better?
Also do you think Sony will fix this, i owned the original Z and can recall having some camera issues. I didn't think they would still be present 4 years on.
The Z3 camera was hyped up so much, I really can't see why. Great on paper, not so good in the real world.
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superior auto mode is basically a 8 mp with hdr and flash with some adjustments better go with the manual so you can choose a higher mega pixel.

nolihowell said:
superior auto mode is basically a 8 mp with hdr and flash with some adjustments better go with the manual so you can choose a higher mega pixel.
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I installed Pro Capture and it seems a lot better. Sony is doing half a job. You cannot supply excellent hardware and not take advantage of it with the software. It seems most people are impressed by the specs of the camera more than its ability to actually take a picture! I cannot believe how much hype surrounding this camera there was.
Have you tried the xposed module 'superiorauto 20mp'? which forces the SA mode to shoot at 20megapixels?

Is it worth to change?

Hey,
I don't know if this is the right place to ask, but I'll give it a shot.
I'm wondering if it's worth to change my phone, I've been using the Xperia Z3 since 3 years and I'm thinking about moving into Z5.
Would it be a good move? what are the pros and cons?
Thanks in advance!

honest truth for me, i would love to go back to my Z3 only cause of the battery life. like for like use i would get a day and half with the Z3 and now i barely make it to a full day.
i would probably look at one of the newer Sony's at least that way support will be there for a little while longer as well.

Doesn't agree with you, I'm running SlimX Custom ROM With Xposed + Amplify, Doze, Greenify ect..
I managed to customize my energy consumption using kernel Auditor and my z5 is now fully adapted to my everyday task and usage, my battery is way more efficient than when I was running stock

Malerovi said:
Hey,
I don't know if this is the right place to ask, but I'll give it a shot.
I'm wondering if it's worth to change my phone, I've been using the Xperia Z3 since 3 years and I'm thinking about moving into Z5.
Would it be a good move? what are the pros and cons?
Thanks in advance!
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z5 has added features like 4k screen and better battery but the device heats and shows battery drainage if its not rooted and you haven't customized it accordingly! also z5 screen brightness has been kept lower than z3 so during day time you may face visibility issues
i would suggest if you wana upgrade try considering XZs or upcoming XZP having better 4g connectivity with 4 inbuilt antennas and snadragon 835 process

YasuHamed said:
i would suggest if you wana upgrade try considering XZs or upcoming XZP having better 4g connectivity with 4 inbuilt antennas and snadragon 835 process
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Thanks for your opinion.
By the way, what do you mean by XZs or XZP?

Malerovi said:
Thanks for your opinion.
By the way, what do you mean by XZs or XZP?
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the next generation of sony Xperia
Xperia XZs (released)
Xperia XZP (forthcoming)

At first I thought I decided wrong but now let say u use marshmallow, xposed grenify u won't regret it. I moved to stock nougat and it is great, just waiting for xposed
But I agree with colleagues here, take a look at XZ premium

The Xperia Z 5 Premium? the Dual sim one¿?
If that's it, it's around 450USD in my country, way cheap according to the normal Z5

Malerovi said:
The Xperia Z 5 Premium? the Dual sim one¿?
If that's it, it's around 450USD in my country, way cheap according to the normal Z5
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No Z5 premium, but XZ Premium it is not realeased yet.

And between Z5 comun and Z5 Premi(dual), which one would u recommend guys?? I can get the E6853 (single sim) y E6833 Dual SIM, any of these for 450USD, NEW.

Malerovi said:
And between Z5 comun and Z5 Premi(dual), which one would u recommend guys?? I can get the E6853 (single sim) y E6833 Dual SIM, any of these for 450USD, NEW.
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If you need two sims get dual sim, otherwise no need for dual sim.
But for that money you should get OnePlus 3T, which is 10 times better,

Malerovi said:
And between Z5 comun and Z5 Premi(dual), which one would u recommend guys?? I can get the E6853 (single sim) y E6833 Dual SIM, any of these for 450USD, NEW.
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Z5P is bigger screen 4k support device and amazing 801dpi
but at the same time its a responsibility to carry this big device
on the other hand z5 is pretty hand with a bit smaller screen
if you have deskjob and you spend most of the time indoors then go for z5p
if your more outgoing/sport/ athelete type person! got for Z5

Thank you for answering, I'll have that in mind

As a previous Z2, currently Z5 Premium and also many Sony accessories owner, my humble advise is: don't buy Sony.
Not that they are bad phones in any way, however as a company, Sony can not catch up with the competition and doesn't listen to the customers.
A couple of examples:
1) DRM thing. If you happen to root your phone they say it is out of warranty and some "special" code which improves camera, screen and sound quality is lost, forever! Sure there are workarounds for these DRM keys but this doesn't chance the fact that Sony is not being developer friendly here. Also, remember the guy who sued Apple and won? The court has decided that "the software which was bought with the hardware, is fully belonged to the customer and the customer is free to customize it". So, Sony dictating us NOT to root or live without an important-ish code, which I pay for when buying the phone, is nothing but only being disrespectful to the customer.
2) camera problem. As you probably noticed, Sony phones have the highest Megapixel cameras out there. We'll, that's just a gimmick. Every Sony phone's superior auto mode shoots at 8mp. Sony also suggests that we should use 8mp whether it's superior auto or - so called- manual shooting. As a camera manufacturer, Sony sells cameras to other companies and most of them flat out come with 16mp, without any advise for a lower resolution shooting. The reason to that is, if you compare a 23mp manual shot with an 8mp manual shot at mid or low light conditions, you'll notice that there is almost no difference. Only that, the 23mp shot is bigger in size and can be zoomed more, which gives you noting but a pastel noise. In addition to that, Sony never shares its true driver for camera, rendering 3rd party camera apps almost useless as they can only register 8mp wide screen and 3.15mp 4:3 shooting mode.
Sony will never admit the truth, but my educated guess is, the sensor has to share some resources while recording the light and colors, thus making it technically save it in 23mp but physically capable of intaking enough light and real life data only for a highest quality 8mp shot. This is why 23mp clear sky shot in the morning will be good quality but a low light shot will suffer and be even lower quality than 16mp cameras. At 8mp level, it is unrivaled though.
Again, that leaves us, customers in a fooled point. Technically Sony is not lying, but also not delivering what is expected. Nowadays, Sony's only advantage to a 12-13mp Pixel or iPhone 7+ is a wide angle FOV. nothing else.
3) screen thing. We, Z5 Premium owners have an 4K screen who runs at 1080p due to the heating and battery concerns. It only converts to true 4K with supported Sony apps. Rivals switched to the 1440p already. Full time 1440p. Japanese people try to understand market's demands so rookiely here, they simply think offering a potentially higher resolution screen will attract the customers. But again, this puts them into a lower moral position than even Apple's. Look at Oneplus, they do their best for a budget screen and make it 1080p, the premium rivals like Google and LG make theirs' 1440p and Android fully supports it. Sony is already a great screen manufacturer, why try gimmicks like that? I mean with their already present screen quality they could easily produce the best 1080p screen out there and market it "being the best of everything: screen quality, battery preserving, heat reducing, and with the clearest whites". Instead they make a 4K screen which only runs at 4K when selected few apps are used. The rest of the time it is 1080p.
Sony don't have a leading behavior in the market either. So it can not make it's rivals jealous and switch to 4K, in order to adapt Android world into 4K rapidly. They simply don't have that influence, actually I believe next Sony phone will be 4K+ resolution with 2:1 ratio..
4) development support problem. Developers actually love companies who are developer friendly. Sony is the only company who release an AOSP code for almost every phone they release, also all of their phones come with lockable bootloader. Yet, they lag when it comes to kernel, Rom, mod etc. support. Somehow developers won't prefer Sony phones. Hell, they even fight with unlockable and frustrating Samsungs and don't show love for Sony for some reason.
Well, I trust these guys. They are giving people, who use their free time to make things better and share it with us for freely, and also sit here and respond to our never ending problems. If they don't prefer Sony most if the time I say they know something.
So, long story short; I am holding a phone in my hands right now. It has a super screen, nice build quality and good sound for music. Also comes with good battery life, dual speakers etc. But I can't trust the company behind it for the future. I can't use 3rd party camera apps, I can't use the full quality of the screen, camera and sound with my desired ROM, I can't use it to its full performance without it slowing down due to heating easily... Also, there are totally visible touch modules in the best screen of the world!
I will enjoy this phone till it's old enough, but then I'll never buy a Sony product again, as Sony is the only Japanese in the world who lost my respect. It'll go right next to Samsung in my blacklist..

DXoMark Score of 83. Any thoughts?

https://www.dxomark.com/sony-xperia-xz-premium-first-sony-tested-with-our-new-protocols/
As expected, Sony's premium flagship gets an unimpressive score of 83 from DXoMark's revamped benchmarking (now including zoom, bokeh effect, artifacts, among other testing).
While i don't agree with the score per category (especially on having a low video stabilization score; seriously, Sony's 5-axis is arguably the best in video stabilization right now) but DXoMark does raise some good and valid points on what's wrong with Xperia phones. Hope Sony camera devs read the review as well so they know what to improve on (i.e. software algorithm on superior auto, noise and texture, lowlight performance, zoom in and bokeh effect).
Having said that, still one satisfied Xperia user here. The cons don't affect me that much; unless you're a person who's really nitpicking on every small detail, the Sony Xperia XZ Premium does a good job of being a solid performer in both photo and video capture.

Lawliet918 said:
https://www.dxomark.com/sony-xperia-xz-premium-first-sony-tested-with-our-new-protocols/
As expected, Sony's premium flagship gets an unimpressive score of 83 from DXoMark's revamped benchmarking (now including zoom, bokeh effect, artifacts, among other testing).
While i don't agree with the score per category (especially on having a low video stabilization score; seriously, Sony's 5-axis is arguably the best in video stabilization right now) but DXoMark does raise some good and valid points on what's wrong with Xperia phones. Hope Sony camera devs read the review as well so they know what to improve on (i.e. software algorithm on superior auto, noise and texture, lowlight performance, zoom in and bokeh effect).
Having said that, still one satisfied Xperia user here. The cons don't affect me that much; unless you're a person who's really nitpicking on every small detail, the Sony Xperia XZ Premium does a good job of being a solid performer in both photo and video capture.
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Sony no paid dxomark= dxmark trolling Sony.
Apple paid Dxomark= dxomark 96 points

Glad I don't use zoom on my XZP... Or I never even used it in my life. Truth is I cant expect from camera big as fingernail to catch photos like pro digital camera. Also every model with only one main camera will fail this test. Still I am happy with xzp camera for taking pictures, even the front camera is finally good for selfies.
https://flic.kr/s/aHsm4ZdMbV
https://flic.kr/s/aHsm4ZdMbV
https://flic.kr/s/aHsm4ZdMbV
https://flic.kr/s/aHsm4XtNwH
https://flic.kr/s/aHsm2QjnKd
https://flic.kr/s/aHsm2QjnKd
https://flic.kr/s/aHsm4AWDDW
Also we should wait for xz1 review, maybe they did some update on img processing...
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smitrovic said:
Glad I don't use zoom on my XZP... Or I never even used it in my life.
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Yeah, I'm not sure why this is even part of the test. If there is no actual optical zoom, what are they really testing? I see people zoom in on their smartphone cameras all the time and I wonder what the point is. Just crop the photo later. You get a better picture, and the "zoom" is effectively the same.

It's really sad and bit disappointing. I think most of the stuff they were saying true.

Couldn't care less. I didn't buy this phone for it's camera

Come on Sony... 83
Come on Sony'
I bought the XZ Premium because I already own Sony cameras. Sony is obviously the leader in sensor technology and by teaming up with Zeiss there should be no questions about the hardware. So... That only leaves one thing. Software! Apple uses Sony Sensors. Samsung likewise. Even Huawei. So we know their sensors are no better, it must be the software. Please Sony, get off your arrogant asses and give us something that's competitive. I know this 83 could be brought up to 93 if you can just give us a new update and a little software support.

I guess that wont happen ever, because Sony needs to save digital camera market tho. If they made this camera use all potential, they wont sell any 200-400 euro digital cameras.
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The initial purporpose of dxomark is to diminish any phone that lacks a second lens for bokeh and zoom and from the other side to favor the phones that have it. So i cannot take this test into consideration because it lacks any professionalism and puts double standards.

I know people love slating DXoMark with remarks like "Sony no paid dxomark= dxmark trolling Sony." I also know that we can't say if that is true or not but to be honest we don't even need DXoMarks score. The camera is poor compared to 2017 flagships. Just take an objective look and test for yourself. The problem on this forum is that people are so blind sighted and such massive fanboys they can't step back and go wow yeah this is awful. I spend £649 on this phone sim free and I understand a lot of people have done the same and want to back up the purchase with claims like the above.
The point of the matter though is that Sony's whole marketing for this thing was the camera and weather you look at a DXoMark score or not, it is not up to scratch . Its low light performance is miles of the competition, the dynamic range is shockingly bad compared to phone like the Pixel, Galaxy S7 or iPhone 7 all of which where released last year. Not even looking at the quality of the photos there is also many other issues such as camera distortion etc.
I just wish Sony would acknowledge these issues and say "Hey we are working on it" but they don't. What i would also like is a camera 2 API so at least we can use another camera app.

jms.flynn said:
I know people love slating DXoMark with remarks like "Sony no paid dxomark= dxmark trolling Sony." I also know that we can't say if that is true or not but to be honest we don't even need DXoMarks score. The camera is poor compared to 2017 flagships. Just take an objective look and test for yourself. The problem on this forum is that people are so blind sighted and such massive fanboys they can't step back and go wow yeah this is awful. I spend £649 on this phone sim free and I understand a lot of people have done the same and want to back up the purchase with claims like the above.
The point of the matter though is that Sony's whole marketing for this thing was the camera and weather you look at a DXoMark score or not, it is not up to scratch . Its low light performance is miles of the competition, the dynamic range is shockingly bad compared to phone like the Pixel, Galaxy S7 or iPhone 7 all of which where released last year. Not even looking at the quality of the photos there is also many other issues such as camera distortion etc.
I just wish Sony would acknowledge these issues and say "Hey we are working on it" but they don't. What i would also like is a camera 2 API so at least we can use another camera app.
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Then go and pay 1200 pounds to get your iPhone X to shoot in auto mode, and let the people who know about photography to shoot better photos in manual mode with almost half the price.

jms.flynn said:
I know people love slating DXoMark with remarks like "Sony no paid dxomark= dxmark trolling Sony." I also know that we can't say if that is true or not but to be honest we don't even need DXoMarks score. The camera is poor compared to 2017 flagships. Just take an objective look and test for yourself. The problem on this forum is that people are so blind sighted and such massive fanboys they can't step back and go wow yeah this is awful. I spend £649 on this phone sim free and I understand a lot of people have done the same and want to back up the purchase with claims like the above.
The point of the matter though is that Sony's whole marketing for this thing was the camera and weather you look at a DXoMark score or not, it is not up to scratch . Its low light performance is miles of the competition, the dynamic range is shockingly bad compared to phone like the Pixel, Galaxy S7 or iPhone 7 all of which where released last year. Not even looking at the quality of the photos there is also many other issues such as camera distortion etc.
I just wish Sony would acknowledge these issues and say "Hey we are working on it" but they don't. What i would also like is a camera 2 API so at least we can use another camera app.
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You can use other camera apps, just not the free versions. If you can handle a couple of euros for Camera Zoom FX you will find that the camera is not as you describe it!!! By any chance have you unlocked your bootloader? I'm sure you know that currently there is no way to backup your TA partition wich means the loss of your DRM unique key which enables camera features, and more.
I've been an xperia fan for a long time and finally Sony are releasing sw updates more frequently and this handset will get Oreo once the sony team puts it together. This will transform this handset which has great HW, as all xperia handsets

Katsigaros said:
Then go and pay 1200 pounds to get your iPhone X to shoot in auto mode, and let the people who know about photography to shoot better photos in manual mode with almost half the price.
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Wasn't really my point was it. You can go buy a year old S7 or LG G6 and shoot in manual mode or in auto mode and smash the Sony out of the water.
And if you want a more stock android experience buy a Moto G5 Plus and that also beats the Sony.
The reason I know is because i have them. The way the sony was sold with improved lens, better low light due to bigger pixel size and hybrid auto focus this was supposed to be a beast of a camera. Which it isn't, not even close.
---------- Post added at 02:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:05 PM ----------
WildBit said:
I've been an xperia fan for a long time and finally Sony are releasing sw updates more frequently and this handset will get Oreo once the sony team puts it together. This will transform this handset which has great HW, as all xperia handsets
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Lets hope so, I am a huge Sony fan and want them to succeeded. I've had all the xperia's since the z3 compact. I just want a camera experience which is as good as the rest of the software and hardware.

This new DXO formula is idiotic... It gives adventages to dualcam phones.
whats the point of doing bokkeh test if there is actually no bokkeh...It should be a feature, it should not affect the score, because many other phones have their own features which are not measured by DXO tests.
for example. XZP has no bokkeh, but it has wider lens, which is a big advantage for me, but there are no additional point for that in the test.
Beside that, DXO tests started to be incomparable.
Look at Iphone 8 review and XZP review. I8 review is 10x more complex - it contains way more tests than XZP review.
There are also inconsistencies like:
At the first paragraph, in the "Test Summary" section they wrote, quote:
"the XZ Premium features relatively strong autofocus performance for both photography and video, as well as very good stabilization for video."
But at the end, in the "Conclusion" section they wrote, quote:
"Video performance is also competent, but marred by problems with loss of detail and mediocre stabilization."
it is really pathetic and not professional.

jms.flynn said:
I know people love slating DXoMark with remarks like "Sony no paid dxomark= dxmark trolling Sony." I also know that we can't say if that is true or not but to be honest we don't even need DXoMarks score. The camera is poor compared to 2017 flagships. Just take an objective look and test for yourself. The problem on this forum is that people are so blind sighted and such massive fanboys they can't step back and go wow yeah this is awful. I spend £649 on this phone sim free and I understand a lot of people have done the same and want to back up the purchase with claims like the above.
The point of the matter though is that Sony's whole marketing for this thing was the camera and weather you look at a DXoMark score or not, it is not up to scratch . Its low light performance is miles of the competition, the dynamic range is shockingly bad compared to phone like the Pixel, Galaxy S7 or iPhone 7 all of which where released last year. Not even looking at the quality of the photos there is also many other issues such as camera distortion etc.
I just wish Sony would acknowledge these issues and say "Hey we are working on it" but they don't. What i would also like is a camera 2 API so at least we can use another camera app.
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Do you even know what is a good photograph?
You don't like the camera quality? Seriously?
I take night photos like never before. Low light photos that are fantastic, videos in slow motion at night that are perfect.
And you compare with s7 and iPhone?

gengi said:
Do you even know what is a good photograph?
You don't like the camera quality? Seriously?
I take night photos like never before. Low light photos that are fantastic, videos in slow motion at night that are perfect.
And you compare with s7 and iPhone?
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Ok, now I know you're seriously trolling. ha ha
Please show me one of your "videos in slow motion at night that are perfect".
The 960FPS is cool, if not gimmicky, but it only really works well in very very good light

jms.flynn said:
Ok, now I know you're seriously trolling. ha ha
Please show me one of your "videos in slow motion at night that are perfect".
The 960FPS is cool, if not gimmicky, but it only really works well in very very good light
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960 fps, at night and 500 meters (at least) apart, I would say it's very good.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3HA5nmqdPh0SFFLVHpXRjBxRDA/view?usp=drivesdk

gengi said:
960 fps, at night and 500 meters (at least) apart, I would say it's very good.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3HA5nmqdPh0SFFLVHpXRjBxRDA/view?usp=drivesdk
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I know in certain lighting conditions it causes alot of flicker. I thought at night it would flicker but it doesnt so thats really cool. Nice video by the way.
Its like alot of people say though, as soon as Samsung or Apple do something new everyone in the world is like wow look at this. Then Sony does it and everyone is quiet about it. Our device the XZ Premium is the first to have a 4K HDR screen and is also the only device alongside the XZS and XZ1 to record at 960fps. Nobody in the world understands how cool it is to have those two features in the palm of your hand. If Samsung or Apple did it then im sure they would understand. As soon as another company besides Apple or Samsung do something cool they get criticised by their 'big bezels' which shouldnt even matter when you take into consideration the features packed into the device.
The score given for our device, I dont think its fair. If you want something fair watch a YouTube video on a comparison or review of the camera, im sure they will be more on point and accurate.
I didnt buy the phone for its camera. If someone wants to say they have an iPhone 8 with a higher score than my XZ Premium they can but I believe the scores are biased and that the rest of their scores are one-sided.

Don't want to bag Sony down but I have compared the XZ Premium(company issued to me) against the Pixel (I own), Pixel 2 (wife owns) and hands down, it is definitely inferior than the Pixels... It takes crappy low light photos with lots of noise. It also struggles with photos where the background is brighter. Again, I think Sony's problem really is software, just like with most Sony phones I owned.
However, I'm not saying that it doesn't do decent photos, it does. I think 86 is too low. Personally, I'd rate it around 90-92.

chefnoob said:
Don't want to bag Sony down but I have compared the XZ Premium(company issued to me) against the Pixel (I own), Pixel 2 (wife owns) and hands down, it is definitely inferior than the Pixels... It takes crappy low light photos with lots of noise. It also struggles with photos where the background is brighter. Again, I think Sony's problem really is software, just like with most Sony phones I owned.
However, I'm not saying that it doesn't do decent photos, it does. I think 86 is too low. Personally, I'd rate it around 90-92.
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I think everyone knows already that the Pixel has a better camera.

XZ owners do you recommend getting this phone now ?

Alright guys XZ it is thanks for everyone responded to me and shared his opinion/experience
For know please let me know if there are any known/common issues that maybe some units has to avoid especially since I am probably getting a "used XZ" :good:
For example I remember for Z5 many units had blurry left side in picture taken by rear camera, also screen bleeding, dead pixels ect..
I'm Z5 user looking to upgrade
Do you guys recommend this phone now considering other competitors
Ofc I'm a sony fan I like their desing, audio/display features, waterproofing ect..
But I'm concerned about the camera I've seen few camera comparisons especially this one it seems that Sony is still struggling with low light and still use same old pictures post processing without forget the weird dimensions distortions
Other alternatives I'm considering that I can get for about same XZ price tag in order
- Google Pixel (camera is DSLR level in my opinion/also better specs - not sure about the mic/audio issues though)
- LG G6 (better camera/specs)
- Galaxy S7
- Oneplus 3T(better specs)
Also another factor let's not forget that the XZs and XZP were already out, also XZ1 recently so at the best cases sony will still support XZ for next year/year and half
Also please let know if there are other things I'm might not be aware of that I should know

korom42 said:
I'm Z5 user looking to upgrade
Do you guys recommend this phone now considering other competitors
Ofc I'm a sony fan I like their desing, audio/display features, waterproofing ect..
But I'm concerned about the camera I've seen few camera comparisons especially this one it seems that Sony is still struggling with low light and still use same old pictures post processing without forget the weird dimensions distortions
Other alternatives I'm considering that I can get for about same XZ price tag in order
- Google Pixel (camera is DSLR level in my opinion/also better specs - not sure about the mic/audio issues though)
- LG G6 (better camera/specs)
- Galaxy S7
- Oneplus 3T(better specs)
Also another factor let's not forget that the XZs and XZP were already out, also XZ1 recently so at the best cases sony will still support XZ for next year/year and half
Also please let know if there are other things I'm might not be aware of that I should know
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I don't know about google pixel ,but the camera of xz i notice by myself is superior by the others. Lg g6 have worst camera than g5, in more moments is worst than midrange. But on wide angle cameras panoramas is good. Of course on wideangle distortion can became in some situation very visible (the distortion on sonyies are for wideangle lens but there are not that visible). But xz destroys g6 on camera...day and night photos. Galaxy s7 produces false photos. The photos on his amoled screen seems great but on reality have more defect. Too filters applied. Yellow and reddish photos .. For example a summer photo of a lake , became autumn photo of lake,thanks to samsung filters. On night photos is easy to shoot with this device but with some burned dettails. Xz on day destroys s7, on night depends . Xz produces more dettailed photos than s7. But s7 have ois and some photos on night are easier to shoot. One plus 3t have a mid range camera ....is a phone studied for modding expecially. Talking about xz i think is the most stable phone in my opinion ...probably op3t is on similar level. I reccomand xz expecially for stability and less problems. I have some friends with s7 and g6 and they have a lot of problems . For alternative to xz i reccomand op3t if you find one. Is the one with less problems like xz. Xz use great the snapdragon 820. 821 is the same processor with only better energy use. But sony,thanks to his great optimizzation, make tha 820 less battery drainer, like 821. Every month Sony release security patches there, before of most OEM. Device have very good performance and very good battery. Signal is great there, one of better phones to have best signal (i think better than your alternatieves). Modding is good there but not one of best(but it seems grow). Ram seems doesn't have any problems .Phone is rock stable and very fluid . Sony optimizzation is the best in my opinion. It doesn't have raw ...but post processing is very natural. Raw seems enable only on aosp roms. If you doesn't worry about modding, give a look on xzs. More ram,loops ui, xzp and xz1 camera with all great new features. But no modding. If you want, give me all questions about xz. I'm very happy with my xz.

Hi,
Also consider screen size.. the XZ is rather small compare to G6, OP3t.
Then it's also Amoled vs LCD but maybe more personal?
The only thing I'm not really happy with mine is battery life, was used to more for a Sony phone, you have to tinker around to get something acceptable. Also would have prefer an Amoled screen since I read a lot so once again better for battery
Personally I would pass on the G6, XDA thread seems empty and LG support bad..
Pixel camera would be the best I guess, but you loose waterproofing.
Then it's Sony over Samsung for me for the "media" experience, sound, ldac bT etc
Also camera is actually really good. Auto is OK+ but manual gives really good shot when you know what you do.

Sony need manual settings to take good pic in low light. XZ have the best display in the market now. Super bright red and clear white. Other colors are naturals and clear. Its no juicy like Amoled or washed like other TFTs. I had G5 with screen burn problem. It have too many phones G5 and V10 with this problem. I dont know for G6 but look at it. Pixel have no IP 68 and its no interesting for me.
One Plus - no thanks. So so tricky warranty service.
S7 is stupid. I feel it in hand like a soap. And Samy dont cover under warranty water damages. I have frend in official Samy service here in Bulgaria and he told me that IP 68 nevermind. Its nothing for Samy. Just commercials.

For me thats a 100% not recommended, looking at the alternatives you posted above; go for the pixel without hesitation. I've used both, the XZ is inferior in almost every aspect except for waterproofing.
Dont get me started on overheating and battery issues, i just came back from a hot area where the phone was almost unusable just because i was standing in the sun for a little bit; once the phone temperature hits 42, forget about being productive anymore, for me this disadvantage is bigger than all the advantages above (even if it had the best camera, screen, speakers etc...) since i cant actually use the phone.

Just get the forest blue XZ, and forget the others.
I running stock on mine, unmodified, September security patch and battery life is very excellent, no overheating.
And I have to agree Sony optimisation is exceptional, I run my phone once for 20 straight days without reboot or slow down, the phone was still smooth.

korom42 said:
Alright guys XZ it is thanks for everyone responded to me and shared his opinion/experience
For know please let me know if there are any known/common issues that maybe some units has to avoid especially since I am probably getting a "used XZ" :good:
For example I remember for Z5 many units had blurry left side in picture taken by rear camera, also screen bleeding, dead pixels ect..
I'm Z5 user looking to upgrade
Do you guys recommend this phone now considering other competitors
Ofc I'm a sony fan I like their desing, audio/display features, waterproofing ect..
But I'm concerned about the camera I've seen few camera comparisons especially this one it seems that Sony is still struggling with low light and still use same old pictures post processing without forget the weird dimensions distortions
Other alternatives I'm considering that I can get for about same XZ price tag in order
- Google Pixel (camera is DSLR level in my opinion/also better specs - not sure about the mic/audio issues though)
- LG G6 (better camera/specs)
- Galaxy S7
- Oneplus 3T(better specs)
Also another factor let's not forget that the XZs and XZP were already out, also XZ1 recently so at the best cases sony will still support XZ for next year/year and half
Also please let know if there are other things I'm might not be aware of that I should know
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Click to collapse
IF you're not chasing for glamour and high end phones these days..e.g. pixel phones, Lg g6, etc.. then XZ still worth to buy. ...Otherwise if you're looking forward for OnePlus, i suggest go for OP 5 instead of OP 3T. Imho
*OnePlus, Pixel phones=Dev enthusiasts+Custom ROMs friendly