Database Info

Is google stealing things off my phone?

Last night browsing the market, after having my phone reset for constant rebooting, I downloaded an app called "adult videos." I woke this morning to find the app wiped from my phone and from the market. Now, the problem lies not in the fact that this app is missing from my life, but in the question is google sneaking around in the middle of the night tampering with people's phones? I read that article about google remotely removing apps from phones strictly on a necessity based need. It kind of makes me wonder how selective they will be when determining what is necessary.

Google has the ability to do this and have flexed their muscles with that feature too recently,cant post links but google: "google remove android application". It uses google talk to send these removal requests. In normal conditions google will only delete apps that were malicious. (spyware/damaging/ddos/fraud/etc)
Most smartphone/ebook platforms have remote kill switches now. The more worrying part is that they also have the ability to install apps onto remote phones.

Google does this with android too? This is one of the reasons I dont like apple. This sounds like rediculous invasion of privacy. How does this work exactly?
Read the link.. disturbing both the install assett and the remove asset options. Plus the fact that Android maintains a constant data connection. Is there anyway to kill this constant connection? do you get charged for it? and can you disable the install and remove assett options?

It's Google, they live and survive off your information!
They went round WiFi snooping when they did Streetview, so God knows what they do with your mobile phone...

hungry81 said:
Google does this with android too? This is one of the reasons I dont like apple. This sounds like rediculous invasion of privacy. How does this work exactly?
Read the link.. disturbing both the install assett and the remove asset options. Plus the fact that Android maintains a constant data connection. Is there anyway to kill this constant connection? do you get charged for it? and can you disable the install and remove assett options?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This connection is maintained by using google talk. So as long as you are online on google talk you have a hotline to the kill switch. After these security concerns I bet some chefs are working on ROM with the kill switch disabled. But nearly all smartphones have kill switches nowadays, companies like Google, Apple and Microsoft don't want to be seen as unable to get rid of a malicious app which would impact on their reputation.
Edit: Thinking about it, if you have extreme worries about this, install some kind of firewall (like iptables (requires rooting)) and block mtalk.google.com.

The best part about these google phones is the ability to make them your own. I am currently waiting for cyanogen's mod 6 which I am pretty sure won't constantly chat with google, but I think that the fact should be recognized of who the major players are in the cell phone game. Remember that 'incident' google had with china, and how the NSA and google became friends after that. Hmm... The largest data analyzer teaming up with the largest data collector, google also reports higher sales every quarter now as well, that is alot of direct connections with alot of people. I'm not sayin' anything...I'm just sayin'.

El_Zilcho said:
Edit: Thinking about it, if you have extreme worries about this, install some kind of firewall (like iptables (requires rooting)) and block mtalk.google.com.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ummm..... no.

r3s-rt said:
Ummm..... no.
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Click to collapse
Umm why not? Its a Linux system below the dalvik vm. There are people who got iptables running on their system and when done correctly iptables. Be aware when I talk about this, I am talking tin foil hat style here.
What if someone modifies AOSP code to just remove the INSTALL_ASSET and REMOVE_ASSET portions of the code?

Google, don't go Apple way!
http://threatpost.com/en_us/blogs/android-also-gives-google-remote-app-installation-power-062510
Old news, but they've made me "a little bit" angry Is there any way to remove all that crapware?

hmmmmm well figuring they just got in trouble for stealing multiple GB of data from private routers I'd say its a sure bet. Also I recently took a federal job and low and behold they already had my gmail account on file even though I have never given it out and only use it for family and friends, but the feds sure had it.

(Q) android antivirus software

Hi,
I wanted to know if I should install AntiVirus I just nand flashed coredroid to my HTC hd2 this was my first flashing ever on my phone and im new to all this I love the way its running now I just want to make sure it stays like that any help would be great

Check "lookout" app ...

tmpchr said:
Check "lookout" app ...
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Click to collapse
agreed, currently have i on my phone

Personally I think antivirus type apps are not needed on android. But if you want one for peace of mind, Lookout is one of the security type apps

the_scotsman said:
Personally I think antivirus type apps are not needed on android. But if you want one for peace of mind, Lookout is one of the security type apps
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
can the phone be restored if i get a virus then? like re-flashing it?

i use lookout as well, but i recomend checking the norton symantec option.

I think my android can be slow if i using antivirus..so any suggest!

"can the phone be restored if i get a virus then? like re-flashing it?"
yes,but only if you have a nandroid backup,titanium backup will do the job ;-)

I use Kaspersky mobile security. Lookout was released at a time claiming to be an AntiVirus when Kaspersky had claimed that there were no viruses out on the Android OS.
Since then there has been atleast 1 exploit which was reported by Kaspersky. (http://androidandme.com/2010/08/news/kaspersky-reports-androids-first-sms-based-trojan/)
Kaspersky being the most consistent AV for Windows over the past 10 years I tend to trust it over Lookout.

I agree with the scotsman
Anti virus form any form of mobile OS is overrated and not really required,virus are SO rare it really isn't worth it, but your decision
btw ive had various os over the years and never had an issue.

the_scotsman said:
Personally I think antivirus type apps are not needed on android. But if you want one for peace of mind, Lookout is one of the security type apps
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Previously I would have agreed on this but it is far from the truth now. There is various malware been released even on the official market, let alone off-market. Now they wasn't exactly damaging to device/software but they was privacy risks as IMEI/numbers/emails and possibly logins etc are logged and sent.
For the sake of about 10MB of RAM and small battery use its worth the peace of mind.
I recomend either Lookout or Kaspersky. I got a free 6 month license for Kaspersky via German site, cant remember the exact source but found the following, not sure if its still valid or not.
How To Grab Kaspersky Mobile Security 9 Six Months License Key :
First open the bellow Promotional offer webpage arranged by CHIP Magazine , enter your Email address and D4N7D-PD625 as Gutschein-Code and finally click on "Absenden" button for submit.
http://promo.kaspersky.com/chip
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

TheATHEiST said:
Previously I would have agreed on this but it is far from the truth now. There is various malware been released even on the official market, let alone off-market. Now they wasn't exactly damaging to device/software but they was privacy risks as IMEI/numbers/emails and possibly logins etc are logged and sent.
For the sake of about 10MB of RAM and small battery use its worth the peace of mind.
I recomend either Lookout or Kaspersky. I got a free 6 month license for Kaspersky via German site, cant remember the exact source but found the following, not sure if its still valid or not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats true but were all taken down afaik, droid is the biggest "risk" for sure though.

timmymarsh said:
Thats true but were all taken down afaik, droid is the biggest "risk" for sure though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes they was but because there is no vetting of what gets added to the market there is nothing stopping the same malware, variations of, or new malware been added at any time and because of the sheer popularity of Android now its only a matter of time before it happens again and may be even more serious next time.
If installing a small/low resource app can potentially protect/make you safer I dont see why not.

i installed lookout a few hours ago and so far i didn't notice any major slowdown (desire)

We should remember though these arnt just anti-virus apps but security apps, the biggest problem with mobile devices is physical theft of personal data, more so than any malware.

Siresmokalot said:
i installed lookout a few hours ago and so far i didn't notice any major slowdown (desire)
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Click to collapse
Lookout is pretty good, and regularly updated by their researchers.
Some other (I won't name them) "security apps" don't actually scan or look at the apps you are installing. Instead they just look at the package name. Stick with good and trusted apps. Lookout is free, for "antivirus" features, and you shouldn't need to pay for AV on a phone given their offerings are pretty impressive.

MaFi0s0 said:
We should remember though these arnt just anti-virus apps but security apps, the biggest problem with mobile devices is physical theft of personal data, more so than any malware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct, And decent AV apps like Lookout etc come with inbuilt remote wipe features aswell as device location etc so even if your device was stolen you have possibilities of either locating it via GPS/Data/Sounding of alarm or in worst case wiping all personal data from it.

A few things:
Lookout is a great app. Little battery use, works well. The draw back is that it will not deep scan the entire phone, only apps and live scan (downloads). It does auto update definitions.
Netquin is also good. Little battery use as well. It will live scan downloads and deep scan. Drawbacks are that scan time is slow and virus definitions do not auto update.
AVG is the best, in my opinion. Moderate battery use. It will live scan both downloads and web. It will also deep scan and check settings. Virus definitions also auto update.
Dr Web is decent, but with Heavy battery use and multi-hour long scans, I don't recommend it.

Trend Micro has a free mobile security app in the market
I use the computer version on all my laptops, yet to have a virus on any in that time

Thanks guys, safe to say the OP should have a good view of what whats out there now

Android Malware increases 400% in 2011..wow! incredible believe it or not!

http://technolog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/05/11/6624172-study-android-malware-up-400-percent
Ok - Google must say something about the way they develop the Android OS, its framework in security sense!
1. there is no security at all, zero security at all
2. there is no firewall module at all
3. there is no encryption support at all (what happened if your phone or tablet lost or stolen and just a PC connection, it can be accessed everything in your device storage and system cache where your usersname, password of your email account, social network even online banking..)
I feel less less comfortable to use my tablet for other purpose except : Reading news, watching my converted movies, download some games, preschool games...
Don't LOL if your identity (ssn, banks..etc) is hijacked, you will feel the pain... and believe or not - no one will help you except to accept the fate "your credit will be going to toilet" while collections keep calling you something you never purchased..etc - at least you can call Credit Bureau to block down your profile, your bank, change your email pwd..BUT what's done has been done -
Arghhh,,,,,Windows 8 tablet soon coming out so I will have better security software such anti-virus, firewall..and Trusteer Rapport...
This news stop my desire of Asus Transformer!!!! arggggghhh!

rcjpth said:
1. there is no security at all, zero security at all
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Click to collapse
In what regard? If you install a malicious app, the first thing the OS does is ask you permission to grant that app certain rights/privileges. If there is "no security at all" to prevent a malicious app from stealing your bank account login, it's because you told the OS that it was okay.
Plus, there are apps like Lookout that add protection.
rcjpth said:
2. there is no firewall module at all
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh, so you're saying things like DroidWall, AndFire, etc. don't exist?
rcjpth said:
3. there is no encryption support at all
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Click to collapse
Engadget: Android 3.0 'Honeycomb' can encrypt all your data, needs a full hour's charge
rcjpth said:
Arghhh,,,,,Windows 8 tablet soon coming out so I will have better security software such anti-virus, firewall..and Trusteer Rapport...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The fact that you used "Windows" and "security" in the same sentence (or anywhere near each other, actually) makes me regret typing this reply... yikes.

rcjpth said:
This news stop my desire of Asus Transformer!!!! arggggghhh!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good thing you shared this news with us here in the Viewsonic G Tablet > G Tablet General forum.
If you want the protection of a walled garden, the obvious choice is right there, in the fruit section. Otherwise, you'll need to be responsible for what you do here in the "it's full of sharp edges" open world.

The problem with the current Android anti virus apps is that they only scan AFTER an app is installed unlike windows which scans an app before being installed

[Q] Block ads in wp7

I don't know if this belongs here or is even allowed but:
Is there a way to block advertisements in wp7 yet?
Full registry access?
Windows folder file access?
I have both but I can't find it, and I hope somebody out there is working on this =)
AdBlockWp7?
Thanks in advance

You could just disconnect wifi/data.
But it's not going to do you any good because there will still be an empty box on your screen. So you really haven't accomplished much except perhaps cut some of us devs out of our much earned pennies.

I buy all my apps, i just want to block ads

megagprime said:
I buy all my apps, i just want to block ads
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Click to collapse
Bought apps shouldnt have ads... if they do, contact the developer.

Yeah, I've never encountered a paid app with ads.

some free-only apps and websites

Well, which is it? This...
megagprime said:
I buy all my apps, i just want to block ads
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Click to collapse
or this?
megagprime said:
some free-only apps and websites
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Click to collapse
Assuming that you don't buy "all" your apps, but in fact do use some free (ad supported) ones, we come back to this:
tiny17 said:
So you really haven't accomplished much except perhaps cut some of us devs out of our much earned pennies.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As for blocking ads on web sites (in Internet Explorer), unless you have a developer unlocked phone I don't think there is any way (and there may not be a way even in that case). You will not find any ad blocking software in the marketplace.

is this true, and that there is no way to block ads while browsing the web ?

Thats what im trying to find out,

I think what he/she is getting at is blocking ads in IE which is not possible as of yet. As far as blocking ads in apps just kill the wifi and data connection and no more intrusive ugly ads ruining the experience.

Laquox said:
I think what he/she is getting at is blocking ads in IE which is not possible as of yet. As far as blocking ads in apps just kill the wifi and data connection and no more intrusive ugly ads ruining the experience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This. I too would like something like Androids "AdFree" which blocks ads off the browser to come into our Windows mobile phones.

ohgood said:
is this true, and that there is no way to block ads while browsing the web ?
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Click to collapse
There are a few ways to do it; easiest and legal way for WP7 users is to use ad-filtering http-proxy server, or use custom, your own ad filtering DNS server.
Sorry I can't provide you easy "how-to" way but you have enough information for google now

You might also be able to do HOSTS-based blocking. That requires interop-unlock though; the HOSTS "file" on WP7 is in the registry.

What are the common URLs used for app adverts ?
I have DD-WRT router which allows URL filtering, I've blocked common google ads and admob and its fixed it for my Android, but still getting WP7 ads
List of common URLS ?

*Detection* said:
What are the common URLs used for app adverts ?
I have DD-WRT router which allows URL filtering, I've blocked common google ads and admob and its fixed it for my Android, but still getting WP7 ads
List of common URLS ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
run a sniffer and post all URLs
I'll run one this weekend

megagprime said:
run a sniffer and post all URLs
I'll run one this weekend
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can't get my adapter to capture wireless packets, wireless button is greyed out, probably doesnt support monitor mode, its an old cheap thing

Guys, I propose to close this thread and/or move your conversation to PM. XDA is well-known resource, but XDA visitors are not a developers or enthusiasts only. A lot of people are visiting XDA in hope to "get something for free". Ad-supported apps is (probably) very important trend in software business, for the free software future. Let's do not ruin that future.
So this topic is very close to break XDA anti-wares rule. Please discuss it privately and (if you'll find the way) don't share your experience to general public!

Blocking Ads on IE is one thing but, on apps, should be placed as bad as warez.
Devs offer their apps for free to make money off the Ads, if you are trying to block all the ads from the apps, you might as well pirate the app because it's the same thing. Ask the Dev to make a $$ ad free version or stop looking for this.
Mods, I agree, this thread should be closed before it gets worse.

DavidinCT said:
Blocking Ads on IE is one thing but, on apps, should be placed as bad as warez.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
David, unfortunately both methods (for IE and apps) are working same way. So the only way to legally get ads-free browsing is a custom third party browsers (I believe there are lot of 'em on the MP). So better to close this thread.

sensboston said:
David, unfortunately both methods (for IE and apps) are working same way. So the only way to legally get ads-free browsing is a custom third party browsers (I believe there are lot of 'em on the MP). So better to close this thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, The mods should close this thread right away before others get this Idea.
I hate Ads as much as the next person but, when a good app is free, I feel I should display their ads because it's how they make their money (I'll touch one or 2 time to time if it's a really good app)
I feel strong about this subject so I reported the thread, sorry guys.

Using it at School, Want to Have Some Privacy

So my school just recently said we can use tablets and laptops in class and around the school. They are willing to allow us to connect to the school's WiFi, but we have to give the dean the MAC address for our device.
I'd like to be able to keep some privacy, even though they say we have to waive our right to privacy if we decide to use electronics. I guess I'm looking for a few apps that can help me achieve this. Maybe a browser with an incognito feature like Chrome, or something that can cover what I'm doing online.
I also wanna know if there would be any way for me to access thinks like Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, Google Music, etc. through their respective app if the website is blocked.
If push comes to shove, I guess I could just tether with my GNex, but that would require an extended battery, which I would like to not have to buy.

Have you tried using the incognito tab option on the stock honeycomb browser?

Unless you are using some sort of vpn connection or encryption you have no privacy. I'd suggest remoting into your home desktop using splashtop or teamviewer and doing all your browsing on your desktop if you are worried about privacy that much.
They can see everything you do since it's a shared connection and they have access to the gateway and internet logs.

They are probably running a transparent proxy with logging (I would be if I were the sysadmin), so the incognito tab won't help.

But
Konfuddle said:
Have you tried using the incognito tab option on the stock honeycomb browser?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That does not do anything with the connection. It just dont cache anything in your browser. So that noone borrowing your computer can see that you have been watching porn.
But to OP: Get a vpn connection. Only way to get privacy on a wifi system.

SwiftLegend said:
So my school just recently said we can use tablets and laptops in class and around the school. They are willing to allow us to connect to the school's WiFi, but we have to give the dean the MAC address for our device.
I'd like to be able to keep some privacy, even though they say we have to waive our right to privacy if we decide to use electronics. I guess I'm looking for a few apps that can help me achieve this. Maybe a browser with an incognito feature like Chrome, or something that can cover what I'm doing online.
I also wanna know if there would be any way for me to access thinks like Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, Google Music, etc. through their respective app if the website is blocked.
If push comes to shove, I guess I could just tether with my GNex, but that would require an extended battery, which I would like to not have to buy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
whoa whoa whoa man... "incognito" has nothing to do with what you transmit online. it only prevents them from seeing what you have already done if they took your device
what you need is a secure VPN like goldenfrog.com, or use a secure proxy server. anything that puts a layer of encryption between you and the server will block out any man in the middle
noobs these days... incognito has NOTHIGN TO DO WITH WHAT YOU TRANSMIT DAMMIT
if you want, use opera and turn on the "turbo" feature. that will create a link to the opera servers and deliver compressed content. meanwhile, it will make it impossible for the school to decrypt anything it intercepts.

chatch15117 said:
if you want, use opera and turn on the "turbo" feature. that will create a link to the opera servers and deliver compressed content. meanwhile, it will make it impossible for the school to decrypt anything it intercepts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope, opera turbo is a plaintext connection so still can be viewed, the only option is https for everything or vpn/ssh tunnels

Ok thanks for all the replies. I guess the easiest thing would be to tether with my phone. (Hopefully Verizon doesn't freak )
I guess I can try setting up a VPN (no idea how). I think my friend tried to, since he owns a bunch of servers, but the school blocks almost every port.
Could using a vpn connection be considered
using Proxies, Caching Servers or any others means to circumvent restrictions placed on
the school’s IT network and internet access
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

DroidSheep anyone hahaha
unless websites like Facebook and such are blocked haha

Is there a way to spoof the MAC?
Scribed in blood using XDA Premium

Dan_Brutal said:
Is there a way to spoof the MAC?
Scribed in blood using XDA Premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1385577

Dan_Brutal said:
Is there a way to spoof the MAC?
Scribed in blood using XDA Premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes but I would bet the reason why they want the MAC address is for WIFI access. You could spoof someone else's MAC but school's aren't known for having hard facts before disciplining students. If they think it is you, you will get in trouble.
I would recommend using TOR if you want to protect your privacy. Download Orbot from the market.
Cheers!
-M
Xda member since 2007

Considering the schools budgets these days, you probably have nothing to fear as far as privacy goes.
Sure they are logging your wifi usage, but no one is monitoring it! All the logging allows them to do, is to look at where you went and when AFTER they have a reason to start looking.
Unless they hired someone specifically to start monitoring students, no one is ever going to look at your logs.
Sure they could put in alerts to let them know when any user goes to site xyz, but odds are they simply have blocked it.
One of the main reasons they are logging things is if say perhaps a teachers online grades were 'hacked', and the IP was traced back to their own servers, they'd have a way to identify which user was using that connection.
Many ISPs already log your internet access as well, but it's at such a low level that no one looks at it (though there are privacy laws to prevent them from looking directly in those cases).
Bottom line.. is if you're not doing anything illegal (torrenting, sending nude pics of yourself, harassing other students via text/email) then you have nothing to worry about, and odds are you won't even be noticed.

DroidGnome said:
Bottom line.. is if you're not doing anything illegal (torrenting, sending nude pics of yourself, harassing other students via text/email) then you have nothing to worry about, and odds are you won't even be noticed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I partially agree. If you use the schools network for normal stuff you shouldn't have anything to hide.
But Co-students are a great security risk. Both willingly and unwillingly. In these days with loads of malware floating around jumping from computer to computer via security flaws in networked devices. Students may also try to hack your device just for fun.
If you have sensitive data you really should encrypt your traffic in one way or another when connected to a network with unmanaged and unknown devices.

DroidGnome said:
Considering the schools budgets these days, you probably have nothing to fear as far as privacy goes.
Sure they are logging your wifi usage, but no one is monitoring it! All the logging allows them to do, is to look at where you went and when AFTER they have a reason to start looking.
Unless they hired someone specifically to start monitoring students, no one is ever going to look at your logs.
Sure they could put in alerts to let them know when any user goes to site xyz, but odds are they simply have blocked it.
One of the main reasons they are logging things is if say perhaps a teachers online grades were 'hacked', and the IP was traced back to their own servers, they'd have a way to identify which user was using that connection.
Many ISPs already log your internet access as well, but it's at such a low level that no one looks at it (though there are privacy laws to prevent them from looking directly in those cases).
Bottom line.. is if you're not doing anything illegal (torrenting, sending nude pics of yourself, harassing other students via text/email) then you have nothing to worry about, and odds are you won't even be noticed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bored teachers/faculty get up to practically anything and snooping on students is apparently a great sport. Everywhere that has a computer lab has someone doing IT and just think about that for a minute...someone doing IT at a high school, the personality of that person. You don't have to be doing anything illegal to get into trouble with your school. A casual google will reveal all the lawsuits students have brought against schools for violating their privacy. Do yourself a favour and use Orbot.
Cheers!
-M
Xda member since 2007

dragon_76 said:
Bored teachers/faculty get up to practically anything and snooping on students is apparently a great sport. Everywhere that has a computer lab has someone doing IT and just think about that for a minute...someone doing IT at a high school, the personality of that person. You don't have to be doing anything illegal to get into trouble with your school. A casual google will reveal all the lawsuits students have brought against schools for violating their privacy. Do yourself a favour and use Orbot.
Cheers!
-M
Xda member since 2007
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it is great fun, but also remember that code of conduct that you and your parents sign at the start of the year states that we do have the right to make sure you are using the internet provided by the school for school purposes only

Can't you use 3G connection from your phone instead of the school WiFi?

As far as getting on facebook if it's blocked....
If you type httpS://facebook.com it will usually let you in. They have blocked several websites at my office, but I can still get into them using this trick. Sometimes, you will have to add the "S" after navigating through the websites, but still will let you get in. So, just use your web browser (not the facebook app), and type s. I believe most people don't block secure websites.
SwiftLegend said:
So my school just recently said we can use tablets and laptops in class and around the school. They are willing to allow us to connect to the school's WiFi, but we have to give the dean the MAC address for our device.
I'd like to be able to keep some privacy, even though they say we have to waive our right to privacy if we decide to use electronics. I guess I'm looking for a few apps that can help me achieve this. Maybe a browser with an incognito feature like Chrome, or something that can cover what I'm doing online.
I also wanna know if there would be any way for me to access thinks like Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, Google Music, etc. through their respective app if the website is blocked.
If push comes to shove, I guess I could just tether with my GNex, but that would require an extended battery, which I would like to not have to buy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

lilstevie said:
it is great fun, but also remember that code of conduct that you and your parents sign at the start of the year states that we do have the right to make sure you are using the internet provided by the school for school purposes only
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The internet provided to the schools by tax payers and/or tuition you mean. You have a wretched problem that is rampant in American schools: you think you own the school's resources. They are owned by the community.
Cheers!
-M
Xda member since 2007

So the administration announced today the final policy and they won't be allowing WiFi access until next September because they want to expand the network. I'll probably just be tethering for the mean time.
Oh yeah, there's only 2 IT guys in my school (lol). One stays in a glass room in the back of the computer lab, and the other comes to classrooms to install projectors and crap.