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Here's some interesting comments from an analyst's report issued by Deutsche Bank that was just published. Clearly Samsung and Apple are the top two smartphone manufacturers and nothing's going to change that in the foreseeable future. The analyst talks about HTC's position in the 3-5 (next tier down) category. He lowered his target price a bit but retained a "hold" rating on their stock which means the sky isn’t falling as some would suggest.
HTC to remain competitive: Deutsche Bank
By Jeffrey Wu - 2012/07/24
Taipei, July 24 (CNA) Taiwanese smartphone maker HTC Corp. will maintain its competitiveness with product innovations despite intensified competition in the global mobile market, Deutsche Bank AG said Monday in a research note.
The German bank estimated that HTC shipped 9 million units in the second quarter, a decrease of 24 percent from the same period a year ago.
The decline in shipments would be less steep, however, than the 39 percent fall expected for Finnish phone maker Nokia Oyj and the 26 percent drop forecast for BlackBerry maker Research In Motion, the bank said.
Nokia shipped an estimated 10.2 million smartphones in the second quarter while Research In Motion shipped 7.8 million units, according to the bank.
"We think these developments indicate the intensified competition among the No. 3-5 vendors in the smartphone space," Deutsche Bank analyst William Yang wrote in the note.
"On the other hand, we see HTC's leading competitiveness in the No. 3-5 group," he said.
Yang mentioned that Microsoft Corp. has announced that HTC will be one of its key partners in launching Windows 8 smartphones in the second half of 2012, a move in contrast to the company's strategy for the Windows 7 version, which primarily supported Nokia.
"We think it indicates that HTC's competitiveness and relationship with OS (operating system) providers remain solid," he added.
Other upside factors for HTC, Yang said, include better-than-expected market share expansion in Europe and Asia driven by HTC's continued product innovations and a faster-than-expected 4G (fourth-generation) smartphone adoption rate in the U.S.
Despite these potentially positive factors, however, Deutsche Bank trimmed its target price for HTC to NT$365 (US$12) from NT$400 and kept a stock rating of "hold" because of intensified competition from arch rivals Samsung Electronics Co. and Apple Inc.
As of 10:11 a.m. Tuesday, HTC shares had fallen 2.26 percent to NT$280.50 in Taipei trading.
Deutsche Bank forecast that HTC's revenue will reach NT$98.7 billion in the third quarter of this year, up 8 percent from the second quarter, and that the company's operating margin will improve to 10.6 percent in the third quarter from 9 percent.
The bank also expected HTC's shipments to decline from 45 million units in 2011 to 39 million units in 2012, with its average selling price forecast to shrink from NT$355 to NT$325 during the year.
confused is this positive or negative jk
where does Asus fall
Very keen to try W8 and maybe make the switch.
Played with a Nokia 800 lumina and its very smooth. Actually smoother than the one x.
mickfitz said:
Very keen to try W8 and maybe make the switch.
Played with a Nokia 800 lumina and its very smooth. Actually smoother than the one x.
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have to agree with that one..my mum has a nokia lumia 710 and it is buttery smooth compare to my one x
mickfitz said:
Very keen to try W8 and maybe make the switch.
Played with a Nokia 800 lumina and its very smooth. Actually smoother than the one x.
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Click to collapse
try JB and then talk to us about smooth
I have to admit I like the animations of Windows Phone 7 more, it not necessarily is more smooth but the animations themselves FEEL smooth, and are quite unique. Thing I don't like about Windows Phone is that multitasking is "fake" like iOS.
I must say that the One series is most likely going to be the comeback of HTC as a whole, consumers I think will prefer the looks of HTC phones over Samsung's plastic-y looks, even if specifications are worse.
hamdir said:
try JB and then talk to us about smooth
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Hamdir you crack me up
I think HTC should be #1 but I'm just a fanboy :angel:
a704e said:
I have to admit I like the animations of Windows Phone 7 more, it not necessarily is more smooth but the animations themselves FEEL smooth, and are quite unique. Thing I don't like about Windows Phone is that multitasking is "fake" like iOS.
I must say that the One series is most likely going to be the comeback of HTC as a whole, consumers I think will prefer the looks of HTC phones over Samsung's plastic-y looks, even if specifications are worse.
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Consumers will prefer the most marketed phone. Period. It is sad to see that no one learned from Apple about that (except maybe Samsung). People will buy anything that makes them think they are "cool" no matter how s#itty it really is. Remember the first iPhone? It even didn't have BT transfer (not to mention 3g, GPS, etc) which even the "dumb" phones had and it was selling like water in the desert. Why? Because Apple knows how to market to the masses.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
Tbh the iphone still doesn't really have much of a BT transfer.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app
they may well of shipped 9 million units, but what isn't mentioned is they probably received 5 million back with faults.
backfromthestorm said:
they may well of shipped 9 million units, but what isn't mentioned is they probably received 5 million back with faults.
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that is pure and utter BS
Enough with the FUD!
oh god pls dont bring in windows
if it happens i'll buy samsung
I'm not the only one on my 3rd one x. some are on their tenth.
or maybe that doesn't impact on profit at all. if it doesnt, then yes hamdir, bs. But, it does.
I'm not interested in, or predicting their demise, I'm only making an observation that seems to be overlooked when reasoning why profits are down.
tkolev said:
Consumers will prefer the most marketed phone. Period. It is sad to see that no one learned from Apple about that (except maybe Samsung). People will buy anything that makes them think they are "cool" no matter how s#itty it really is. Remember the first iPhone? It even didn't have BT transfer (not to mention 3g, GPS, etc) which even the "dumb" phones had and it was selling like water in the desert. Why? Because Apple knows how to market to the masses.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
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IMHO Apple designs their products to "sell themselves" - if you watch any of their TV adverts or look at their banners, they pretty much just feature a picture of the device. The reason is that they design the product to look good and look attractive above all else. Remember that most consumers don't really care about what kind of specs a device has and wouldn't even dream of modding it.
backfromthestorm said:
I'm not the only one on my 3rd one x. some are on their tenth.
or maybe that doesn't impact on profit at all. if it doesnt, then yes hamdir, bs. But, it does.
I'm not interested in, or predicting their demise, I'm only making an observation that seems to be overlooked when reasoning why profits are down.
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i am on my third and in fact opened over 10 defected ones, but my third a winner
but the point is it was just a rotten batch mate
HTC is known for their build quality and that doesn't change with one hiccup, i bought dozen a of devices from them, all build like freaking rock-ship
my wife drops her sensation XL daily where the back cover flies and still scratch free, dont make me start on how many times my DHD flew in the air than hit the asphalt and the sensation was also premium
the One V and S are sexy, really u claim 5 million defected devices just because we had some bad luck with early bad batch?
as for the One X there is no phone in the market right now better looking and better built, im sorry don't let the HT/SH 24 batch blind your eyes
tkolev said:
Consumers will prefer the most marketed phone. Period.
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This isn't true. There's always people categorized as "individualists" or "contrarians" that are repelled by conformity and wouldn't own an Apple product because of its banality. With the SGS3 selling in the quantities Samsung's projecting the same thing will start to occur. Ironically, Apple got its start appealing to that very audience with their "think different" and "1984" campaigns. I personally will never own an Apple product because I'm a devout contrarian.
backfromthestorm said:
they may well of shipped 9 million units, but what isn't mentioned is they probably received 5 million back with faults.
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Click to collapse
And I'm sure you're using this forum to draw that conclusion. I'd say there are probably 5-7K One X owners participating in this forum. That's .0007 percent of the 9M phones HTC's sold. That gives new meaning to statistically irrelevant. If the return rate was as bad as you're suggesting it would show up in their financials as expenses going through the roof. There expenses were up 1% which on billions of dollars of sales isn't in any way meaningful. And by the looks of the SGS3 forum Samsung's getting as many i9300's back with AMOLED display issues as HTC is for One X QC defects.
Still a downgrade from "buy" to hold doesn't look good, usually it means it's preparation for a "sell" advice
edit: whoa, HTC actually seem way undervalued: http://www.google.com/finance?q=TPE:2498 or the market are have already calculated in a big drop in revenue
BarryH_GEG said:
This isn't true. There's always people categorized as "individualists" or "contrarians" that are repelled by conformity and wouldn't own an Apple product because of its banality. With the SGS3 selling in the quantities Samsung's projecting the same thing will start to occur. Ironically, Apple got its start appealing to that very audience with their "think different" and "1984" campaigns. I personally will never own an Apple product because I'm a devout contrarian.
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Well, good for you. But companies don't care about individuals, they care about profit. So you either make exclusive product and sell it at 1000% of what it really costs (and I mean the whole research, developement, testing, marketing, production and logistics process, not the pointless calculations based on the price of the hardware some sites are so found of) or you make a product for the masses and make a profit from the volumes you sell. And if being the latter, you can't count on the "individualists" to carry you to the top. Samsung got where they are now by marketing the **** out of a inferior display technology in the SGS and creating one good followup product (SGS 2). Unfortinatelly, HTC fails to do so. They seem to lack the resources to make a marketing campaign which will create a hype about any of their products and they miserably fail with their followup products (desire s, anyone?) which leaves them wondering on their flagships. First it was the Desire, then the Sensation, now it's the One and you can't create a brand if you change the name every year or so.
Don't get me wrong, I too won't buy Apple or Samsung device (being an Android developer iOS is out of question and I hate the messed up colors on AMOLEDs, which Samsung puts on every one of their flagships) and want HTC to continue to make superb products like the HOX but in today's economy they need to find a proper way to do so and they need to find it fast.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
BarryH_GEG said:
And by the looks of the SGS3 forum Samsung's getting as many i9300's back with AMOLED display issues as HTC is for One X QC defects.
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what kind of amoled issues?
shiningarmor said:
oh god pls dont bring in windows
if it happens i'll buy samsung
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There's always the possibility one day in the future Samsung will roll out Tizen and what may happen to Android on their own phones. At the moment Android is its biggest seller.
I think W8 phones will help HTC but then again if W8 proves to be a smashing hit they will face stiff competition from Nokia and the likes. Imagine a pure view handset incorporating W8 will be quite a hit.
Would have been nice to have a Nokia android device but hey will never ever happen!
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
I was recently watching a speed test on YouTube and according to its results, the brand new iPhone was almost double the speeds of the galaxy s 3 in certain areas. (will post the links momentarily).
So what do you guys think? To me personally, I am one to believe that quad scores don't really matter, But there are a few things that convince me that the iPhone 5 can seriously take on newer android phones now. If it came down to choosing a phone, I would probably just pick the one that's the cheapest for my plan lol.
Looking forward to your input.
Sent from my SGH-T959V using xda premium
What's with the obsession of comparing and trashing the iPhone? HOnestly iPhone5 and SGS3 or any of the current flagship Android phones are for very different audiences and preferences and as much as I hate Samsung you're not gonna be disadvantaged in anyway choosing it. The same applied for the iPhone5. Im pretty sure there will be a plethora of responses claiming the iPhone5 is worse than the SGS3 based on observations but not first hand experience so what's the point of asking people's opinions? This is an ANDROID forum and a lot of people here are not known for being neutral and reasonable and hate things (eg Apple) just for the sake of being hateful. They will not give you a rational response if you're looking for one, assuming you are.
I guess you're right, I was having this same discussion with my friend in school and it really just came down to preferences.
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Bro honestly just hardware wise, gs3 only beats the i5 by a small amount.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using xda app-developers app
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1883519
Please read the Stickys, Thank You & Thread Closed
Hello
I thought up of a intresting idea here and I want everyone to bare with me as it may have been suggested.
Now I know there are alot of talented developers onhere but how about hardware engineers? If we have hardware engineers, I think XDA could produce a (mainly technically and oriented towards a XDA audience) phone using Kickstarter. For me, this idea is based off Ouya; The Android gaming console. That project raised 8 million dollars and is being preordered at 99 dollars. A XDA phone would be a lot more expensive (as there is no way in hell it would raise 8 million and the phone has touchscreen) but would just be so complete. I imagine XDA completly wanting every single function inside the phone.
The only catch would be that this is a phone "as-is". Meaning the only tech support you get is from the forums and there is no quality control to make sure all batches are 100%. Think of it as those chinese knockoffs but with a real good site/forum behind it.
What do you guys think?
I cant believe that noone is even remotely intrested in this....
Compared to Ouya, designing a smartphone is way more complicated process -> you need to spend more resources on development -> price goes up -> you'll end up with product much more expensive than high end phones.
Also Ouya is let's say "universal". In case of smathphone you have to make choices between different screen sizes, battery life vs dimensions/weight etc. In the end, you won't be able to satisfy everyone needs. So, even though there are a lot of great projects funded by Kickstarter, I think this one wouldn't be successful, but that's just my opinion.
qubas said:
Compared to Ouya, designing a smartphone is way more complicated process -> you need to spend more resources on development -> price goes up -> you'll end up with product much more expensive than high end phones.
Also Ouya is let's say "universal". In case of smathphone you have to make choices between different screen sizes, battery life vs dimensions/weight etc. In the end, you won't be able to satisfy everyone needs. So, even though there are a lot of great projects funded by Kickstarter, I think this one wouldn't be successful, but that's just my opinion.
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Click to collapse
I disagree with some of your first points. I think indeed its more complicated and expensive but, if there is enough demand and preorders, I dont think the product will end up being more expensive than a high end phone (granted around with a S3 and/or a iPhone, the initial batches)
Obviously the choice would be made by the majority of the XDA memberbase; Priotories, 3.7 vs 4.3 screens, battery size, etc would be decided by its memberbase. This would take time of course Im not saying lets just do it and in a month have the phone: No. A ideal poll: "Choose: 3.7 with 2500mAh or 4.3 with 1800mAh" And thats it. And we see what the majority of XDA members perfer (since we cannot have both, for realistic and budget proposes).
I think what XDA should do is research it first: Research is free as it is putting polls on websites and listening to feedback. If there is not enough feedback, thats it; Nothing spent except time. Now if there is enough intresting, well........
Another thing that would be intresting (and also dividing costs) is to work with the Cyanogenmod team. They are argueably the biggest ROM making team currently and would really help out on the software side.
XDA should at least try it.....If it fails, hey thats it....
Like I mentioned I am surprised there isnt even a min of intrest in this at all........
The main problem is getting agreement as to what will be built. Another forum I'm on is wanting to do a project like this but it is a much smaller community so it will be far easier to get a consensus. If this isn't done correctly it could end up getting drawn out forever with nothing ever coming of it.
in china you can buy an MTK "package" for peanuts and put up your brand of phones in days, without basically any work other than designing the shell - and they are pretty sweet phones, 6577 onew are nice and 6589 are nearing top-class phones at bargaining price.
I dont think you can trumph that without huge resources.
It's not as easy as picking out a cpu, a gpu, storage rom etc. and just connecting them to a board. You're going to end up with a piece of crap because no two people can agree on the same things in a forum. This has never been done, and for good reason. Let's leave the hardware up to the billion dollar companies who know what they're doing, not some kid who runs a vBulletin forum and has eclipse installed on his ubuntu computer.
All the engineers on xda live far away from each other, so every developer needs to get a protype and that is going to be expensive as hell
Sent from my LT22i using xda app-developers app
NixZero said:
in china you can buy an MTK "package" for peanuts and put up your brand of phones in days, without basically any work other than designing the shell - and they are pretty sweet phones, 6577 onew are nice and 6589 are nearing top-class phones at bargaining price.
I dont think you can trumph that without huge resources.
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Click to collapse
A search would have told you that this has already been talked about before.
As for the post above. If it was to happen it would not be with parts from china. If anything came of it we would use a trusted sources. While the the budget parts are cheap. With tech you get what you pay for. A good phone is not cheap and a cheap phone is no good.
As for working with CM. That is not out of the question but I don't think we would use anything more then pure AOSP code. CM edits too much for it to be the base.
Wayne Tech S-III
Yeah I have to agree. Xda phone is not a good idea.
Something that represents xda would be great like the cases they did with cruzerlite.
Edit: I don't know if you can kick start software stuff but how about xda software that its compatible with alot of android phones. This way the site still gets traffic from different Samsung and Motorola,etc users and only true fans can run it. Since android runs off Linux maybe someone can make XdaMod that runs off the new Ubuntu. Only thing is that these devs would need to be very generous because no one would pay for a ROM.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
lukyjay said:
It's not as easy as picking out a cpu, a gpu, storage rom etc. and just connecting them to a board. You're going to end up with a piece of crap because no two people can agree on the same things in a forum. This has never been done, and for good reason. Let's leave the hardware up to the billion dollar companies who know what they're doing, not some kid who runs a vBulletin forum and has eclipse installed on his ubuntu computer.
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Click to collapse
Once again, a poll would be made and the mayority would choose. Its not about two or three people deciding.
zelendel said:
A search would have told you that this has already been talked about before.
As for the post above. If it was to happen it would not be with parts from china. If anything came of it we would use a trusted sources. While the the budget parts are cheap. With tech you get what you pay for. A good phone is not cheap and a cheap phone is no good.
As for working with CM. That is not out of the question but I don't think we would use anything more then pure AOSP code. CM edits too much for it to be the base.
Wayne Tech S-III
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, if it has been talked about and working with CM is not out of the question, why not just make a actual thread and front page about it and see how much intrest it generates? Maybe there is a market for it...
If there isnt intent, its obvious that we will never see even if it generates intrest.
Just my 2c - In order to satisfy all the people you would need a line of products
Some like big screens, some not.
Some require hardware keyboards, some not.
Some like huge internal memory, some not.
Some like powerful quad processors, some not.
Some like bigger battery traded for bigger phone, some not.
Compromise would be unappealing to majority.
No excuses now:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2666
Hi there xda,
You can also click the picture to get redirected to their website.
I recently found out a nice "wannabe" project called Phonebloks, what's your opinion about that?
I think it's a good thing to promote it on xda too. Feel free to comment about this.
Or you can access their website > http://www.phonebloks.com/
If the website is down for some reason, you can show your support here > https://www.thunderclap.it/projects/2931-phonebloks
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Now i'll state my opinion:
I believe this is a very good ideea, takes customisation to whole new levels and if it could be packed with an [bold]Android OS[/bold], it would be the whole new level of customisation, both hardware and software on the same platform.
Anyways, i believe this ideea should be promoted, even if we will never see it come to life, the ideea is pretty darn good. In other words, let's spread the word and at least give it a chance to start or become a trend.
There should be considered some serious stuff here. Not too many people would like to carry around a bulky device, it could be customisable from hardware to software, but it should be made a little more slim, maybe this could be done in time, or who knows, there is only an ideea for now, we can speculate here and dream about it and promote it.
Yeah, there could be a few more things to be talked about, but i'm a little tired now, so i'll be around
This is, by far, the greatest innovation for mobile devices in years. Have you seen the rate the video views are going up for their YouTube video? It's amazing that the general public is interested in something like this. As for the bulky form factor, I'd take this bulky, 100 percent customizable phone over every phone on the market to date. This is insane!
Sent from my SCH-I545 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Love it! I would buy one in a heartbeat.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using xda app-developers app
This definitely looks incredible, and I would buy one if I could. My biggest concern is the price. I can't see something like this being particularly cheap. The kind of engineering and technology that would have to go into this is staggering, and for the amount of time and effort being put into this to make it simple and user friendly, if it were sold at normal phone prices, it would be an incredible risk for the developing company.
Something like this is revolutionary and has been thought of for years. The problem is hasn't come into effect is because it will destroy the market. Manufacturers release new devices every few months. If this was available, there would be no need to buy a whole new device to get the latest and greatest.
Sent from my Atrix HD using Tapatalk 4
KayxGee1 said:
Something like this is revolutionary and has been thought of for years. The problem is hasn't come into effect is because it will destroy the market. Manufacturers release new devices every few months. If this was available, there would be no need to buy a whole new device to get the latest and greatest.
Sent from my Atrix HD using Tapatalk 4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, considering the bulky form factor, there could not be too much impact on the market because:
- People would like slim phones with bigger or smaller form factors.
- Companies can still get revenue from this project by investing in bloks.
- Price could be a problem.
- Fiability could be a problem.
All in all, the project is good, first of all we should see what happens with it, if it will ever be developed or something like that. Only time will tell
Engineers first day;
Step 1 - Advil
Step 2 - cry
I like the idea. The engineering side of things is going to be quite intense.
I give them my support though
As an engineer, this would be cool. It would also be essentially impossible to create. If the CPU, RAM, and memory were soldered in then it would be much easier, but then the project loses most of its appeal.
This is an incredible idea, I've shared as much as I can without being excessive. I know this most likely will never happen but I've had a few talks with people who hate having phones that being obsolete after a year or two. I'd love to see this produced and would most defiantly support them with their endeavor. :good:
Well, surely there would be a need of some serious engineering, but hey, at least the ideea is good, people can brainstorm on getting it up and running. The ideea is good, people are interested, now, we need companies and engineers to devote to this and we'll see wat happens
KayxGee1 said:
Something like this is revolutionary and has been thought of for years. The problem is hasn't come into effect is because it will destroy the market. Manufacturers release new devices every few months. If this was available, there would be no need to buy a whole new device to get the latest and greatest.
Sent from my Atrix HD using Tapatalk 4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And that would be great.
I think people is realising that is worth having something that will last. I'm in photography and the market is just crazy, new cameras every year and so much time needed to get confident with a model that becomes obsolete even if it could work for years.
Sent from my GT-I8160 using xda app-developers app
I've been looking around lately for something to replace my HTC One M7, and so far the M8s (GSMArena info page) is looking really good... But I was very sad to see that there doesn't seem to be much (any?) custom development for it at the moment. Unfortunately searching XDA for phrases with such short words ("HTC One M8s") really doesn't show anything useful, I assume because the search filters lump "M8" and "M8s" together as "singular" and "plural", so it's quite possible that I've simply missed some vital info somewhere.
I'm also somewhat limited by device size since I have one paralyzed arm, so I actually need a phone that's still usable with one hand. Even though us tall and scrawny people do have long fingers, any screens over 5" is just plain awkward to use and I start getting hand cramps after about 10 minutes of use. While all the "mini" variations of newer phones seem to be underpowered or lacking in features. :/ If it wasn't for the screen sizes, I'd quite happily go for something like a LG G4 or an Asus Zenfone 2.. *sigh* Such gorgeous phones.
On a related note (and within as much as anyone can trust people's "opinions" on the internet), I have seen a fair number of people complaining online about the higher heat generated by the Snapdragon 801 chips included in the original M8, which is another reason I'm so interested in the M8s with it's SnapDragon 615 chip.
So, just to check, are there any plans to create a forum for this device? Or is there simply not enough demand for it..?
ZaLiTH said:
I've been looking around lately for something to replace my HTC One M7, and so far the M8s (GSMArena info page) is looking really good... But I was very sad to see that there doesn't seem to be much (any?) custom development for it at the moment. Unfortunately searching XDA for phrases with such short words ("HTC One M8s") really doesn't show anything useful, I assume because the search filters lump "M8" and "M8s" together as "singular" and "plural", so it's quite possible that I've simply missed some vital info somewhere.
I'm also somewhat limited by device size since I have one paralyzed arm, so I actually need a phone that's still usable with one hand. Even though us tall and scrawny people do have long fingers, any screens over 5" is just plain awkward to use and I start getting hand cramps after about 10 minutes of use. While all the "mini" variations of newer phones seem to be underpowered or lacking in features. :/ If it wasn't for the screen sizes, I'd quite happily go for something like a LG G4 or an Asus Zenfone 2.. *sigh* Such gorgeous phones.
On a related note (and within as much as anyone can trust people's "opinions" on the internet), I have seen a fair number of people complaining online about the higher heat generated by the Snapdragon 801 chips included in the original M8, which is another reason I'm so interested in the M8s with it's SnapDragon 615 chip.
So, just to check, are there any plans to create a forum for this device? Or is there simply not enough demand for it..?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For the HTC One M8s, check here: HTC One M8s - Support? by Richylitschy.
And here: HTC One M8S: Cyanogenmod 11 and 12 Discussion by voidzero.
Or here: [M8QL_UL] Custom Recovery / RUU / Root - HTC One M8S by El-Conkistador.
As it is not that popular (yet), you have to check/use the general HTC One M8 forums.
If you want to get other users advices and opinions about suggesting a new device, best to ask in the **DEVICE SUGGESTION THREAD** -- Not sure what device to buy? Ask here! by KidCarter93 thread.
Thread closed. Thank you!