Hello
I thought up of a intresting idea here and I want everyone to bare with me as it may have been suggested.
Now I know there are alot of talented developers onhere but how about hardware engineers? If we have hardware engineers, I think XDA could produce a (mainly technically and oriented towards a XDA audience) phone using Kickstarter. For me, this idea is based off Ouya; The Android gaming console. That project raised 8 million dollars and is being preordered at 99 dollars. A XDA phone would be a lot more expensive (as there is no way in hell it would raise 8 million and the phone has touchscreen) but would just be so complete. I imagine XDA completly wanting every single function inside the phone.
The only catch would be that this is a phone "as-is". Meaning the only tech support you get is from the forums and there is no quality control to make sure all batches are 100%. Think of it as those chinese knockoffs but with a real good site/forum behind it.
What do you guys think?
I cant believe that noone is even remotely intrested in this....
Compared to Ouya, designing a smartphone is way more complicated process -> you need to spend more resources on development -> price goes up -> you'll end up with product much more expensive than high end phones.
Also Ouya is let's say "universal". In case of smathphone you have to make choices between different screen sizes, battery life vs dimensions/weight etc. In the end, you won't be able to satisfy everyone needs. So, even though there are a lot of great projects funded by Kickstarter, I think this one wouldn't be successful, but that's just my opinion.
qubas said:
Compared to Ouya, designing a smartphone is way more complicated process -> you need to spend more resources on development -> price goes up -> you'll end up with product much more expensive than high end phones.
Also Ouya is let's say "universal". In case of smathphone you have to make choices between different screen sizes, battery life vs dimensions/weight etc. In the end, you won't be able to satisfy everyone needs. So, even though there are a lot of great projects funded by Kickstarter, I think this one wouldn't be successful, but that's just my opinion.
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I disagree with some of your first points. I think indeed its more complicated and expensive but, if there is enough demand and preorders, I dont think the product will end up being more expensive than a high end phone (granted around with a S3 and/or a iPhone, the initial batches)
Obviously the choice would be made by the majority of the XDA memberbase; Priotories, 3.7 vs 4.3 screens, battery size, etc would be decided by its memberbase. This would take time of course Im not saying lets just do it and in a month have the phone: No. A ideal poll: "Choose: 3.7 with 2500mAh or 4.3 with 1800mAh" And thats it. And we see what the majority of XDA members perfer (since we cannot have both, for realistic and budget proposes).
I think what XDA should do is research it first: Research is free as it is putting polls on websites and listening to feedback. If there is not enough feedback, thats it; Nothing spent except time. Now if there is enough intresting, well........
Another thing that would be intresting (and also dividing costs) is to work with the Cyanogenmod team. They are argueably the biggest ROM making team currently and would really help out on the software side.
XDA should at least try it.....If it fails, hey thats it....
Like I mentioned I am surprised there isnt even a min of intrest in this at all........
The main problem is getting agreement as to what will be built. Another forum I'm on is wanting to do a project like this but it is a much smaller community so it will be far easier to get a consensus. If this isn't done correctly it could end up getting drawn out forever with nothing ever coming of it.
in china you can buy an MTK "package" for peanuts and put up your brand of phones in days, without basically any work other than designing the shell - and they are pretty sweet phones, 6577 onew are nice and 6589 are nearing top-class phones at bargaining price.
I dont think you can trumph that without huge resources.
It's not as easy as picking out a cpu, a gpu, storage rom etc. and just connecting them to a board. You're going to end up with a piece of crap because no two people can agree on the same things in a forum. This has never been done, and for good reason. Let's leave the hardware up to the billion dollar companies who know what they're doing, not some kid who runs a vBulletin forum and has eclipse installed on his ubuntu computer.
All the engineers on xda live far away from each other, so every developer needs to get a protype and that is going to be expensive as hell
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NixZero said:
in china you can buy an MTK "package" for peanuts and put up your brand of phones in days, without basically any work other than designing the shell - and they are pretty sweet phones, 6577 onew are nice and 6589 are nearing top-class phones at bargaining price.
I dont think you can trumph that without huge resources.
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A search would have told you that this has already been talked about before.
As for the post above. If it was to happen it would not be with parts from china. If anything came of it we would use a trusted sources. While the the budget parts are cheap. With tech you get what you pay for. A good phone is not cheap and a cheap phone is no good.
As for working with CM. That is not out of the question but I don't think we would use anything more then pure AOSP code. CM edits too much for it to be the base.
Wayne Tech S-III
Yeah I have to agree. Xda phone is not a good idea.
Something that represents xda would be great like the cases they did with cruzerlite.
Edit: I don't know if you can kick start software stuff but how about xda software that its compatible with alot of android phones. This way the site still gets traffic from different Samsung and Motorola,etc users and only true fans can run it. Since android runs off Linux maybe someone can make XdaMod that runs off the new Ubuntu. Only thing is that these devs would need to be very generous because no one would pay for a ROM.
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lukyjay said:
It's not as easy as picking out a cpu, a gpu, storage rom etc. and just connecting them to a board. You're going to end up with a piece of crap because no two people can agree on the same things in a forum. This has never been done, and for good reason. Let's leave the hardware up to the billion dollar companies who know what they're doing, not some kid who runs a vBulletin forum and has eclipse installed on his ubuntu computer.
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Once again, a poll would be made and the mayority would choose. Its not about two or three people deciding.
zelendel said:
A search would have told you that this has already been talked about before.
As for the post above. If it was to happen it would not be with parts from china. If anything came of it we would use a trusted sources. While the the budget parts are cheap. With tech you get what you pay for. A good phone is not cheap and a cheap phone is no good.
As for working with CM. That is not out of the question but I don't think we would use anything more then pure AOSP code. CM edits too much for it to be the base.
Wayne Tech S-III
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Well, if it has been talked about and working with CM is not out of the question, why not just make a actual thread and front page about it and see how much intrest it generates? Maybe there is a market for it...
If there isnt intent, its obvious that we will never see even if it generates intrest.
Just my 2c - In order to satisfy all the people you would need a line of products
Some like big screens, some not.
Some require hardware keyboards, some not.
Some like huge internal memory, some not.
Some like powerful quad processors, some not.
Some like bigger battery traded for bigger phone, some not.
Compromise would be unappealing to majority.
No excuses now:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2666
Related
This is just...For the fun of it. I can enjoy a bit of philosophising once in a while. I was playing around with devices of almost every manufacturer (except Motorola, sorry), and thought about the particular quirks and advantages of smartphones.
It might be nice for me first to zoom out to the platform level. There are a few platforms used right now. WP7, Android, BB, iOS come to mind as the main ones. Most smartphones developed and sold are tailored towards a particular operating system. This defines their capabilities, their limitations, and their general goal during their lifespan.
I will address each briefly:
WP7: With the latest Mango, these phones are tailored to social networking. The Lumia 800, for example, is certainly an impressive device in that capacity.
Android: These phones tend to be for people who want to play around with their OS. They generally offer large touchscreens and fast dual-core processors (the latest phones do, at least). One of the dogmas seems to be multimedia ease. I will ask a question about such phones that I will get back to later: "Is there such a thing as too large?".
BB: These phones and the operating system they run on were designed with security in mind. They offer physical keyboards which are unrivalled. RIM also have the best data technology on the market. I like to think of BBs as having the functionality of bricks, but being as hard to take down as bricks as well. These phones are far behind everyone else, but I would state that they are very stable. They also are, potentially, the best phones. I use "phones" in the forgotten capacity: for making calls. They possess the best radios.
iOS: BE UNIQUE! Well, it somewhat worked until everyone and his grandmother had an iPhone. I, personally, despise lowercase "i"s, so have never been tempted that way. What do they offer? Apps. Many, many, many apps. Need I say more? Apple started out with a brilliant idea of how to sell products to the masses (yes, I am quite fond of The Affluent Society), but they have not improved much upon that idea since its inception.
These are obviously non-exhaustive notes. The general purpose of the information written above is to determine the role of smartphones.
Addressing Android, you have speed and power. But is it necessary? The Galaxy Note is awkward. The Galaxy SII is also reasonably so. These devices try to provide a Web and gaming experience, combined with all-around functionality. Sure, they have large screens in order to provide that experience, but a tablet can perform the same things better (refer to Asus Transformer Prime). Is there a point to those functions on a phone? I want to stress "phone" again, since it seems we have strayed so far from the functions of a phone.
Nokia have been producing quality plain handsets for a long time. They sell many of these to developing countries. Their place and their existence is, I believe, justified. Whether they are needed with WP7 is another matter.
Blackberry have always targeted businesses and sought to provide fast text inputs on their phones. Their devices are built like bricks, as I said previously. The BB infrastructure is more impressive than BB phones, in my opinion. Especially the Data compression.
Apple, well...Apple is Apple.
I can only peg down three categories: BB for infrastructure, Nokia for supplying the world with phones, Apple and Android for experimentation and multimedia aspects.
So what is the role of smartphones? Are they too developed for their own good? Typing on a 4.5'' screen in landscape mode will never fail to annoy me. Apple's watchful gaze is creepy. RIM's antipathy towards progress is strange.
This is actually quite well done and addresses the various brands and OS' without being extremely biased that i would be use to=D Bravo and I agree they all have their place
Dark lord me said:
This is actually quite well done and addresses the various brands and OS' without being extremely biased that i would be use to=D Bravo and I agree they all have their place
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Yay! My freestyle writing is appreciated! =)
Thanks!
Hoping that a few people will want to post their opinions and discuss. After all, we are passionate about smartphones. Otherwise we would not be on here.
Thought I would add something on my "brick" line of thinking. I and a friend got two different phones at approximately the same time in 2008. I got the BlackBerry Storm 9530. He got the HTC Dream (or G1, whichever you prefer to call it). Mine looks, feels, functions as if brand new. His is in a sorry state.
Yeah , I understand your pain of large phones , but some people just don't like tablets and want phones to have tablet-like functionality .
Don't bash me please ! *prones*
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EmoBoiix3 said:
Yeah , I understand your pain of large phones , but some people just don't like tablets and want phones to have tablet-like functionality .
Don't bash me please ! *prones*
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For site about smartphones, I would have thought more people would be interested in this topic. But I suppose I am targeting obsessions...Try telling an iPhone user that iPhones are not the best, or that they are not particularly unique.
What is a phone??? Lol but seriously I do agree we have strayed far away from the cellphone era. We have entered a new age that began in 2005, which I like to refer to as the connected age. With the growing number of smartphone users it is easy to track down anyone you want. Everyone is connected to everyone. Our phones grow larger in size every 6months. I remember when I wanted the smallest most compact flip phone. The bigger it was the uglier it was. Now.... anything under 4.3 inches I cant even use lol. I predict in ten years smartphones will be non existing. It will be converted to tabs. U can buy a tablet for half the price of a brand new sgs2.
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I disagree with tablets being "better" that smartphones or smartphones being replaced by tablets, not everyone can or want to travel with a tab everywhere
A phones portability will trump most of times(a quick pic, quick vid, listening to music, browsing in the crapper,etc)
What i mean is that your not always able to go with a carrying bag(well girls can) or a notebook sized thing in your hands, thats when the mini tab in ur pocket comes to use
Might not be as good as a tablet for somethings but its still performs ok and makes calls, and its very easy to carry around
On the other hand, if the tablets are to replace something, is the laptop
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negrobembon said:
I disagree with tablets being "better" that smartphones or smartphones being replaced by tablets, not everyone can or want to travel with a tab everywhere
A phones portability will trump most of times(a quick pic, quick vid, listening to music, browsing in the crapper,etc)
What i mean is that your not always able to go with a carrying bag(well girls can) or a notebook sized thing in your hands, thats when the mini tab in ur pocket comes to use
Might not be as good as a tablet for somethings but its still performs ok and makes calls, and its very easy to carry around
On the other hand, if the tablets are to replace something, is the laptop
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+1
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OP: you don't seem to understand that people in this era want more than just a phone, if you are complaining that smartphones these days are too advanced to be a phone, then go and get a nokia from 1998 and stop posting on XDA.
The only argument I have is that in which you seem to feel that Blackberry devices are superior in terms of security. I disagree, and also feel that a SPoF has finally shown blackberry devices to be vastly inferior in terms of both security and content delivery.
Food for thought: the US Gov't has finally decided to branch out from the bricks of yesteryear, and now are starting to allow iOS, W*, and A* devices on the AEN with server side security policy implementation. That's saying a lot since they've previously only allowed a BBD on the AEN as all other devices "couldn't be secured". Kinda hard to secure a RIM server in Canada...
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inv3stment said:
OP: you don't seem to understand that people in this era want more than just a phone, if you are complaining that smartphones these days are too advanced to be a phone, then go and get a nokia from 1998 and stop posting on XDA.
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That's like, just his opinion, man. Why you have to flame home for it, man
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inv3stment said:
OP: you don't seem to understand that people in this era want more than just a phone, if you are complaining that smartphones these days are too advanced to be a phone, then go and get a nokia from 1998 and stop posting on XDA.
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+1000000000000000000000000
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thisisbrian said:
What is a phone??? Lol but seriously I do agree we have strayed far away from the cellphone era. We have entered a new age that began in 2005, which I like to refer to as the connected age. With the growing number of smartphone users it is easy to track down anyone you want. Everyone is connected to everyone. Our phones grow larger in size every 6months. I remember when I wanted the smallest most compact flip phone. The bigger it was the uglier it was. Now.... anything under 4.3 inches I cant even use lol. I predict in ten years smartphones will be non existing. It will be converted to tabs. U can buy a tablet for half the price of a brand new sgs2.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
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negrobembon said:
I disagree with tablets being "better" that smartphones or smartphones being replaced by tablets, not everyone can or want to travel with a tab everywhere
A phones portability will trump most of times(a quick pic, quick vid, listening to music, browsing in the crapper,etc)
What i mean is that your not always able to go with a carrying bag(well girls can) or a notebook sized thing in your hands, thats when the mini tab in ur pocket comes to use
Might not be as good as a tablet for somethings but its still performs ok and makes calls, and its very easy to carry around
On the other hand, if the tablets are to replace something, is the laptop
Sent from my X10a using xda premium
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It is not that I am a great fan of BlackBerry. It is just that I am very uneasy about Androids. What is to say you will not be charged $1,000 on your next bill due to an exploit allowing premium text messages to be sent from your device without your knowledge?
Yes, I have a bias towards security. We have Facebook and Twitter, which are used as breeding grounds for all sorts of mayhem...Obviously all they have done is displayed all our private information to the whole world. That is really going to be regretted by everyone using those services...Sooner or later. We have the multimedia Androids which ignore fundamental issues and have grown too large to comfortably use. HAVE YOU NEVER HAD TO REALLY STRETCH YOUR FINGER TO REACH AN ICON, OR USE ANOTHER HAND?
Regarding tablets, are we really suggesting that they can beat laptops at anything important? If the general stream is towards mass procrastination, tablets have helped us achieve that. But I do not see the next 10 years seeing tablets replacing laptops.
Well, i still think the future of the laptop and notebook is the tablet
And blackberrys are not as safe as you think they are
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smartphones - of any kind - are the functional equivalent of the light bulb. game changer. amazing tech advance.
RickMckc said:
smartphones - of any kind - are the functional equivalent of the light bulb. game changer. amazing tech advance.
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Some of the biggest advances are as simple as a dung when analized deeply but still revolutionary
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I've been a fan of Smartphones for a while. I have a Samsung Galaxy Ace, mainly because I couldnt afford the SII at the time. I like the Bigger phones cause i can use it for reading, watching media, surfing the web, looking at pictures, etc...
Personally I'm hoping to get a galaxy note for my birthday next year as its perfect for everything I like to do with my phone.
For me, smartphone is a universal device which is computer replacement anywhere, where there are no computers.
Hello after hearing about apple reaching 500 billion dollar, my question is what does android need to do to become a serious competitor to apple so that people would rather buy android then an iphone? What does apple have in the iPhone and ipad that android dosent? I would like to see some opinions of what you all think thanks
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Apple has always been the underdog lol Android is still new so it will be at the top in due time.
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reaper24 said:
Apple has always been the underdog lol Android is still new so it will be at the top in due time.
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Well in phones I meant ever since the iPhone came out and iPad everyone is going crazy about there products, I'm not sure why when they have no where near the selection of android
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Android users need Watson, that would literally kick the $*it out of siri. I mean that would be amazing- doctors, researchers in the field, really just anyone in the sciences could use it and the average person could enjoy it as well as learn from it. Android is the perfect channel to reach all sectors and the general public with such a new and really amazing technology.
MunkinDrunky said:
Android users need Watson, that would literally kick the $*it out of siri. I mean that would be amazing- doctors, researchers in the field, really just anyone in the sciences could use it and the average person could enjoy it as well as learn from it. Android is the perfect channel to reach all sectors and the general public with such a new and really amazing technology.
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Yes the technology is far past apple, in my opinion android will be the future, I try to write what I imagine in the future of technology but I can't put it in words
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I see Android the same way I do Linux. It will attract the true techies but but for the average user it will not appeal to theme as it takes to much work to get it just right and most people are just to lazy
IMHO is the main difference between android and iOS, that android is more customizable and, with that, its more complicated. So, most people who only want to have a working phone which is looking good and don't want to learn anything bout software will buy an iPhone. Because its simpler.
I think android will be catshing up with apple, because it's only getting better, it is open source, the phones is cheaper and more options to change the apperence of the phone!
Why, isn't it the number one OS yet?
Hey thank you all for your replies, I was at best buy couple week ago and a person was looking to buy a android tablet or an ipad 2, I was next to the person when I was playing with a tablet and he asked me do you no what is better? Ipad 2 or this tablet? (He was looking at the Asus transformer) I told him Asus was, but he end up buying the ipad because his Droid phone always get a virus, freezes and so now he thinks all android are like that....if he only knew
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Android311 said:
Hello after hearing about apple reaching 500 billion dollar, my question is what does android need to do to become a serious competitor to apple so that people would rather buy android then an iphone? What does apple have in the iPhone and ipad that android dosent? I would like to see some opinions of what you all think thanks
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You can't entirely confuse profits with marketshare (which Android has 51% of, I think they were saying). Apple is able to get away with a higher price markup for lesser specs because
0) low price elasticity - iSheep will continue to buy and to rationalize their mother company no matter what
1) they're facing no competition from other, similar iPhone makers, unlike android makers who compete with each other in both specs and price
2) they slice down anything that even vaguely resembles competition with lawsuits (even where they're clearly not making iPhones)
3) the brand itself has become so hyped that it's able to continue to get new users - I guess you could count this as marketing
They still have a much greater stranglehold on the pad market, so a lot of the profits probably come from that.
Finally, if you believe this post at least, Apple is able to squeeze more profits from the way our carriers and subsidies work. Nowadays, it's standard for the carrier to bundle phones along with their services, in a dual-pay system (the carrier "subsidizes" part of the phone cost in exchange for a contract). Because of Apple's particular market power (users might switch to another carrier if the other has iPhone and they don't), they are able to demand that carriers subsidize more while taking away the profits. That way, they make more money without directly charging the buyers. Indirectly, of course, the carriers probably pay for this through increased fees in general, which means that everyone ends up sponsoring the iPhone.
In other words, they've successfully managed to implement an "iPhone tax". Isn't bundling the greatest thing ever?
As for how to make Android better, updates and better phone compatibility is definitely an issue. ICS, for example, needed to be available quickly for multiple devices as soon as it's released. There really is no way to do this, except.. release it earlier. Have a completely open beta, like the Linux kernel, so that everyone can get compatibility working from day -100 onwards. If flashiness (and non-copying by Apple) is an issue, at least give the manufacturers early access to it, so that they're able to start working on device compatibility right away.
Meanwhile, unfettered by bureaucracy, custom roms are churning out faster than any manufacturer ever could. You could have updates and features faster than you ever thought possible; the average user, however, doesn't know enough, or isn't confident enough to go through the installation process. Google should include an easy ROM installer/backup utility by default. That way, the users get a full taste of the speed and power of openness, which really is so intoxicating that they'll never go back to a closed system ever again.
(They could even put start posting up their own custom ROMs! Imagine what their developers could do, unhindered by the megacompany issues. We would have updates, the like of which we've never seen before.)
If Android was optimized to run perfectly on one core just like Windows Phone 7 than I can see a lot of people using it. When I talk to Android users who don't know anything about custom roms/root they complain about force closes and applications not working. Also how there phone slows down.
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Yeah, agree with two posts above... The slow spread of Android 4.0 is only good for Apple, the big companies should realize that they're depending on the users liking android, and you will not get them to like Android with refusing to give them updates. Sometimes I think they are not able to look into the nearer future to see what's necessary for them...
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great info everyone yes I do notice a bit of a slow down on android 4.0 but I'm on a single core device, hopefully by summer they can find a solution to make android 4.0 more stable and better performance, I feel that the android team is working fast to come up with a software that would bring iPhone users to android, but when iPhone 5 comes out I hope some android phone company's have something up there sleeve that will be able to compete with apple
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*bumping up
Right now there on the right path to becoming number one in the market, what i think they need to do to become number one.
all official releases of android to be the same across all phones, things like TouchWiz to be scraped altogether
moderation on the market to stop useless buggy apps from making the market look bad
an android OS for desktops/laptops that will run consumer products
[\LIST]
Better hardware acceleration on all applications.
I think that iPhone as an advantage : there is only one model.
So you can find dock for desktop, car, audio, ...
Android is only the softwar and each constructor have to make is own accessories and so on.
In my opinion, one major problem of Android devices is about fragmentation.. I hope that Android OEMs can release updates for all devices faster.
mikebzh44 said:
I think that iPhone as an advantage : there is only one model.
So you can find dock for desktop, car, audio, ...
Android is only the softwar and each constructor have to make is own accessories and so on.
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Yes that's true but there is more money to be made in the android market rather then the iPhone. There are ALOT of brands and generics that make the same accessorizes for the iPhone and each brand is struggling to make money when they all make the same product, unlike android. Verity is better
Alright, so after reading a couple articles on a bunch of sites. I can sort of understand a vicious cycle that's going on in the mobile development world.
First off, let me begin, Mobile OEMs (as we all know) don't release updates very often. And as a general rule, when they do... it's usually a couple months late. Just look at HTC devices, most of the (somewhat) older devices (depending on what you're definition of older is) aren't getting the updates to ICS for while http://goo.gl/FjcMJ . And in some cases they just decide not to update them at all. (see the Desire HD and possibly the Thunderbolt http://goo.gl/BwZld )
Initially when Android started, this was a little different. And allow me to clarify by going far far back, to the first Android device. The HTC Dream.
It initially came out with Android 1.0 (Astro) it eventually got updated all the way to the software version 1.5 (Cupcake). If you look back then, that's two software updates! Astro to Bender to Cupcake.
Now let's look at just about any other Android device (not made my Samsung, for the most part they're a bad example... (of course then again, they have the head of Cyanogenmod Steve Kondik on their team).
We're going to look at Motorola, because despite the fact that it's owned by Google, not all of their devices have received updates. And the device I've chosen from them is the defy. Now if you look over at the development section of the forums you'll see that we have a working (and apparently a very smooth) port of Jelly Bean for the Defy. http://goo.gl/mE1Qy
But if you decide to see what Motorola's deciding to do to update it from Gingerbread, well... their development section is devoid of everything for the Defy... http://goo.gl/g8XN0
Now why does that matter to us happy go lucky developers and modders? Well let's look over this little scenario I've played out in my head more than once.
CEO#1 "Oh they want Jelly Bean?"
CEO#2 "Yeah they do..."
CEO#1 "So what are we going to do about it?"
CEO#2 *checks XDA* "Nothing, the ones who really care about it have a working ROM up already."
CEO#1 "Okay, sounds good to me. So are you ready to go make some more phones with high specs and outdated software?"
CEO#2 "Well if we start now, we should be able to get six new devices running ICS 4.0.3 out by mid December!"
CEO#1 "Ohh, not even having the latest version of ICS is really going to get them. Brilliant!"
This is a vicious cycle that just keeps going around, and around, and around. The problem is that there doesn't seem to be a way to stop it. While we need Superuser and rooting privileges, we also need updates to the latest version of Android OS to keep us going.
OEMs on the other hand see us as free labor for development and as the only people who really want/need the updates. The problem is that with their history of sending out updates we really can't stop working. And even when they do send out updates, sometimes they aren't even fully stable! (see Evo 3D http://goo.gl/VzCNM )
So the question is, how are we going to stop this?
Buy devices from the companies that keep things up to date. The Nexus gets direct pushes from Google so you know you're good there. Sony has a dedicated line to developers through their forums and even offers devices for temporary dev use and has reasonably priced unsubsidised phones.
Put your dollars in the right places if you want to make change happen. Those who want full access still aren't a large enough part of the market to shape everything. That said, people pushing for control have made sure that iDevices can be jailbroken and HTC is staggering hard because of mis-steps in marketing that have been worsened by lackluster updates and their decision to shun the dev community that was bolstering them.
They can't look at xda or whatever Android forum because there is a larger population of users who have no idea what rooting is, let alone custom ROMs. Those people depend on updates and if they won't get an official update, they won't get one at all.
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If you ask 10 Android users what version of Android they are on, 8 of them will have no clue, 1 will know because the sales rep used it as a selling point, and one of them will be running Jellybean (thanks to XDA!).
Consumer demand is not high enough to demand the cost of testing new software on dated phones. Sad but true.
thebeastglasser said:
OEMs on the other hand see us as free labor for development and as the only people who really want/need the updates.
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Click to collapse
If they really saw us as free labor, they would release a phone with cyanogenmod or something and just kang whatever works for their next update. (Actually, this would be a very good idea.)
However, in actuality, they just don't care about the devs. Too busy trying to differentiate their products with custom skins and cause more work for everyone.
It is true that most people don't know much more than that they are are android or "droid", just like many people don't know much more than they have an Iphone. The vocal majority of phone users (online) however have quite a bit more knowledge which means they get much more feedback from the minority.
One of the main reasons (other than price) that I got a Nexus 7 was due to the fact that Google pushes updates immediately to their nexus devices. I see this as an additional "perk".
You can't buy a device Android or other from an OEM or carrier and expect to get the latest greatest updates a or mods any too quickly. Forums and sites like xda bring in developers and users who ate eager to offer mods and help that you will never find coming from the mainstream as quickly or with the same quality. I get the device I want and look to here to make it better quicker.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
But what I see is that there are a bunch of phones that could easily be running better software (like the Defy) but OEMs clearly see that anybody who seems to care enough about updates are doing it themselves. The problem is, there are relatives of mine who refuse to root and yet they know enough about phones to know what version they're running and know the difference between the two versions. The one they currently have, and the one they could have.
I feel like this is kind of unfair to the sed-mentioned people and on top of that, it makes uneducated users buy more phones, while it keeps people like us are at work.
I'd bet that it was a pain in the a** porting ICS to the Desire HD no thanks to HTC, and yet this is just one less job for HTC and a hell of a lot more work for us... That's just me.
And also, that idea for a "pre-kanged" phone or one running a version of Cyanogenmod is pretty good. It'd be a great idea...
Again, speak with your dollars. I have no doubt that Nexus sales will continue to climb not only because of devs, but because people who just end up with them will like seeing timely updates and devices that continue to get better and better. If you want to help the rise of affordable, quality devices then steer others toward them when you can and buy them yourself when it's time for something new.
Also, people on xda do not see development as a "work", they see it as a hobby...
So even if all the phones were on the latest android, the dev community here at Xda would still be hard at "work" to come up with something better...something which the OEM's and Google couldn't think of implementing even with such large resources at their disposal...
And let's face it, apart from games, the general public in large doesn't have "need" for BETTER phones...
I've seen the likes of HTC One X and Galaxy S3 go in the hands of people for whom multitasking would mean chatting on whatsapp while waiting for the fb app to load...
So the question would arise, if the public doesn't "need" better phones, how do we sell it to them?
The answer becomes clear, stop giving them updates...make them feel that their device is outdated...that they "need" a NEW and BETTER phone...
The ones who understand the capability of their phone would have the ability, or more importantly, the will to make the updates happen...
For the rest, well there's fancy advertising...
Hope this clears up...
- Via xda premium
Yeah, I suppose it makes sense. Thanks guys!
How many people are there using Android? About 60% of the market, which means hundred milion users How many members do we have here on XDA? Less than hundred thousands! It means that regular users dont know and dont care what OS they use or even dont know what the update is. Froyo, GB, ICS, JB sound like alien languages for most of regular users. For those who know wat they are using, they are already XDA members, the rest just doesnt care or they just simply buy an iCrapple. Therefore, there is no way you can stop that. Customers are always taken granted by companies.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda app-developers app
Extreemly well put. We all knew it but didn't say anything. I am awaiting the next nexus for this very reason. Props to thebeastglasser
MissionImprobable said:
Again, speak with your dollars. I have no doubt that Nexus sales will continue to climb
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Click to collapse
The bundling is too strong with this market. When there are literally only one or two phone brands, usually otherwise sub-par, that are stock, the voting with dollars won't make much of a difference. It's like voting in an election where a lot of people who might prefer a pure candidate are given tons of reasons to go with more mainstream ones.
So how can change actually be effected? First and most obviously, google might dictate to motorola to make stock phones. Hopefully, that will happen and stock android will start getting a positive reputation for straightforward and automatic upgrades.
The other option starts at grassroots levels: this bundling leaves a gap in the market, and eventually someone should step in to fill that gap. I can imagine small start ups in third-world countries (where price is a real issue) revitalizing older brands with the highest supported cyanogenmod, then selling them at still relatively low prices for a profit. If there is enough demand for this, this "repackaging" business would be emulated all over and the OEMs might start to take a hint.
For the record there are over four million members on XDA...
thebeastglasser said:
For the record there are over four million members on XDA...
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Click to collapse
Not currently active users though. Remember XDA used to make you register to download files so that jacked up the member rate.
thebobp said:
The bundling is too strong with this market. When there are literally only one or two phone brands, usually otherwise sub-par, that are stock, the voting with dollars won't make much of a difference. It's like voting in an election where a lot of people who might prefer a pure candidate are given tons of reasons to go with more mainstream ones.
So how can change actually be effected? First and most obviously, google might dictate to motorola to make stock phones. Hopefully, that will happen and stock android will start getting a positive reputation for straightforward and automatic upgrades.
The other option starts at grassroots levels: this bundling leaves a gap in the market, and eventually someone should step in to fill that gap. I can imagine small start ups in third-world countries (where price is a real issue) revitalizing older brands with the highest supported cyanogenmod, then selling them at still relatively low prices for a profit. If there is enough demand for this, this "repackaging" business would be emulated all over and the OEMs might start to take a hint.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Chinese market is already doing that, and with brand new phones that come both rooted and sometimes unlocked. Yes, there are other markets in which this can be done, but it doesn't make sense to talk on the one hand about voting with dollars not making a difference and then saying third-world resellers will change the game.
Google is marketing a clean, recognizable line in their Nexus devices, advertising intelligently, and making sure that they continue to stay on the latest firmware. Supporting them and other companies who do so will dictate what model corporations follow. Again, HTC is eating crow because their abandonment of the dev community and their decision to spread themselves thin, ala Motorola, who are also being dug out of a hole now by Google. I'd say both companies have paid the price for ignoring what the marketplace demands.
Moto had everyone hooked with the original Droid so there is no doubt that share is won or lost by how you approach relevancy for the long run. Go back and look at how many people loved their OG Droids in every way but have now moved on to other brands because of locked bootloaders and lack of firmware updates on the models that followed. Money makes the corporate world go round and every little bit helps.
Grassroots movements have done everything from keeping the iPhone legal to jailbreak to getting a man his goodies when a WP store tried to pull a fast one in regards to him winning the WP challenge to getting VZ to clarify that they wouldn't be doing anything to their Unlimited users. We may not be the majority, but we are far more organized and informed than the masses and as such what we do gets noticed and picked up on by tech, blog, and news coverage. The only ones who don't make change happen are the naysayers who sit by and do nothing. Support the brands that support the customers and devs.
MissionImprobable said:
The Chinese market is already doing that, and with brand new phones that come both rooted and sometimes unlocked. Yes, there are other markets in which this can be done, but it doesn't make sense to talk on the one hand about voting with dollars not making a difference and then saying third-world resellers will change the game.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure voting makes sense.. if you're in another country where the election's not as rigged.
MissionImprobable said:
Again, HTC is eating crow because their abandonment of the dev community and their decision to spread themselves thin, ala Motorola, who are also being dug out of a hole now by Google. I'd say both companies have paid the price for ignoring what the marketplace demands.
Moto had everyone hooked with the original Droid so there is no doubt that share is won or lost by how you approach relevancy for the long run. Go back and look at how many people loved their OG Droids in every way but have now moved on to other brands because of locked bootloaders and lack of firmware updates on the models that followed. Money makes the corporate world go round and every little bit helps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not really convinced that Motorola's and HTC's losses were due to locked bootloaders, or even lack of firmware updates. Rather, I think it's due to brand inertia: at some point, Samsung came up with a phone (the Galaxy S2) that was so far ahead of anything else on the market at the time, that they just grabbed market share and brand loyalty from many of the consumers on the market. This has little to do with the Galaxy Nexus, and indeed their "next big thing" has been the horribly backward (from a stock perspective) S3 and the Note.
It's been my perception that there is a strong correlation between developer support and whatever device I want to get next.
When I got my very first phone, it was the Samsung Captivate.
It had (Still has) great dev support. I decided not to wait a month to get the Moto Atrix because, there was no predicting what kind of dev support it would have despite having great specs. I find that (generally speaking) Samsung phones have had strong dev support.
I sort of hate to point this out.. But, if you think the "average consumer" cares about upgrades.. I would be inclined to disagree. A lot of people do care about upgrades.. Myself, my girlfriend, a lot of people who frequent forums in general.
Still, your average consumer is probably more concerned with the screen size than the software it's packing. Even if ICS is "nicer" and "more elegant" there are a lot of people who really don't know or even care what OS their phone is running. As long as they can text and check facebook, they aren't going to be bothered with the small details of "Jellybean" or "ICS"
I have to be completely honest when I admit, if I were a manufacturer.. I don't honestly know how inclined I would be to release OS updates. Not because I want to be an evil corporation and force you to upgrade to get the newest OS.. But, because putting it plain and simply.. It takes time, energy, and money to release an update. If *ANYTHING* goes wrong with the update and even a single person doesn't follow the instructions.. It becomes really hard to prove they are the one at fault. So you spend your time and energy making an update, potentially having more cost incurred due to possibly damaged hardware, and then finally.. wondering how many people really cared in the first place. A lot of people don't care and even won't upgrade their phone because, they perceive it as "a pointless endeavor."
thebobp said:
Sure voting makes sense.. if you're in another country where the election's not as rigged.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What does this have to do with supporting companies that support us? Voting with your dollars is a metaphor; it doesn't mean that there is an election for phones.
Hello anyone reading this message.
My name is gregory. I am like most of you pretty pissed about the behavior of canonical (at least if you followed the ubuntu edge fund campaign http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ubuntu-edge). What a lame way to make advertising. Of course, anyone with a bit of sense would smell the scam here, 32,000,000$ in a month? come on man!!! So here I am. I've been a flasholic for years and I think I came up with the idea of making my own cell phone about 3 years ago. fear, shyness and lack of funds made me drop the idea several time. But today we have the possibility to change the cell phone world together, thanx to canonical's lame way to advertise their OS. Basically here is my idea, Why not fund our own XDA phone? After all, many of us having problem or getting fed up with the slow updates of our phones are coming here to get things done. Most of us don't wait anymore for those big brands to update our devices. So why in the world are we waiting for them to build them. I've been around XDA for quite some times now and all I see here is a great mix of DEV. So correct me if i'm wrong. The dev on XDA are for most way faster and more reliable than the one at samsung, htc etc. the parts for the phones are all made in china for the most part, we all know some designers and the ubuntu edge crowfunding made it to 12,000,000 +. So here is my question to you people on XDA. Why don't we make our own phone the same way. Even 10,000,000 would be largely enough to make simply the best phone in the world. we could make a poll about each part and design in the phone, and i'm pretty sure the dev here would agree to make the device better. Not only because they will be pay for it, but because they love it. I am no business man, neither a develloper. I don't know code or anything in that matter. Now let me tell you my vision (and no i didn't take LSD for it)
imagines a phone with the latest specs like the edge. 128gb drive storage, 4gb ram, sapphire glass etc etc, it would be nice, but now imagine the same device with the XDA community back up, updates and corrections every 1 or 2 months, pushed straight to your phone without need of external program (kies, itunes or else... why is it call mobile phone if you need to have a computer to update it?), a minimum of 3 years updates, and of course, the ability to solve your problem here without having to talk with lame company commercials who would send your phone to korea just because they don't know anything about the product they sell. won't it be a dream? - more ideas are very welcome and that's why WE should do our own phone.
As I said, i'm not into the cell phone business, although I know some things about business in china, i'm no designer or dev, but i'm sure we could put up a pretty team from people here and make it happen. And when it's done, start a crowfunding. I know it would work because the name XDA alone stand for quality and improvement in our mobile world today. I have in mind that anyone willing to do that would succeed and I can't protect this kind of idea since i'm not the one who invent cell phone. but I also think the great thing with the xda community is that there is no lame boss or greedy stock sharers to decide what people should do or not. I'm hard working and if people think we should make it then i'm willing to work my ass, even travel (i'm from Paris, france not texas ) overseas to make this happen. here is the team i think we should put together to see this device built:
- people who knows the chinese technology market (where to buy and select company)
- DEV who knows about Android devellopment (maybe ubuntu or any other)
- designers ( let's try to make something more beautiful than the iphone )
- lawyers (I guess)
- commercials
any other ideas are welcome.
I opened this thread just to see your reactions on the subjects. it a little messy because i have so many things in my mind but feel free to argue, critisized, encourage, or just explain to us anything that comes in your mind. cheers
jimmymetis said:
Hello anyone reading this message.
My name is gregory. I am like most of you pretty pissed about the behavior of canonical (at least if you followed the ubuntu edge fund campaign http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ubuntu-edge). What a lame way to make advertising. Of course, anyone with a bit of sense would smell the scam here, 32,000,000$ in a month? come on man!!! So here I am. I've been a flasholic for years and I think I came up with the idea of making my own cell phone about 3 years ago. fear, shyness and lack of funds made me drop the idea several time. But today we have the possibility to change the cell phone world together, thanx to canonical's lame way to advertise their OS. Basically here is my idea, Why not fund our own XDA phone? After all, many of us having problem or getting fed up with the slow updates of our phones are coming here to get things done. Most of us don't wait anymore for those big brands to update our devices. So why in the world are we waiting for them to build them. I've been around XDA for quite some times now and all I see here is a great mix of DEV. So correct me if i'm wrong. The dev on XDA are for most way faster and more reliable than the one at samsung, htc etc. the parts for the phones are all made in china for the most part, we all know some designers and the ubuntu edge crowfunding made it to 12,000,000 +. So here is my question to you people on XDA. Why don't we make our own phone the same way. Even 10,000,000 would be largely enough to make simply the best phone in the world. we could make a poll about each part and design in the phone, and i'm pretty sure the dev here would agree to make the device better. Not only because they will be pay for it, but because they love it. I am no business man, neither a develloper. I don't know code or anything in that matter. Now let me tell you my vision (and no i didn't take LSD for it)
imagines a phone with the latest specs like the edge. 128gb drive storage, 4gb ram, sapphire glass etc etc, it would be nice, but now imagine the same device with the XDA community back up, updates and corrections every 1 or 2 months, pushed straight to your phone without need of external program (kies, itunes or else... why is it call mobile phone if you need to have a computer to update it?), a minimum of 3 years updates, and of course, the ability to solve your problem here without having to talk with lame company commercials who would send your phone to korea just because they don't know anything about the product they sell. won't it be a dream? - more ideas are very welcome and that's why WE should do our own phone.
As I said, i'm not into the cell phone business, although I know some things about business in china, i'm no designer or dev, but i'm sure we could put up a pretty team from people here and make it happen. And when it's done, start a crowfunding. I know it would work because the name XDA alone stand for quality and improvement in our mobile world today. I have in mind that anyone willing to do that would succeed and I can't protect this kind of idea since i'm not the one who invent cell phone. but I also think the great thing with the xda community is that there is no lame boss or greedy stock sharers to decide what people should do or not. I'm hard working and if people think we should make it then i'm willing to work my ass, even travel (i'm from Paris, france not texas ) overseas to make this happen. here is the team i think we should put together to see this device built:
- people who knows the chinese technology market (where to buy and select company)
- DEV who knows about Android devellopment (maybe ubuntu or any other)
- designers ( let's try to make something more beautiful than the iphone )
- lawyers (I guess)
- commercials
any other ideas are welcome.
I opened this thread just to see your reactions on the subjects. it a little messy because i have so many things in my mind but feel free to argue, critisized, encourage, or just explain to us anything that comes in your mind. cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A search would have shown you this has already been talked about and "If" it ever did happen it would not be with any parts from China at all. The parts would have to be of the highest quality. But as I said this has already been talked about before.
zelendel said:
A search would have shown you this has already been talked about and "If" it ever did happen it would not be with any parts from China at all. The parts would have to be of the highest quality. But as I said this has already been talked about before.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i tried to find anything about this but didn't, could you tell me which thread talk about that?
zelendel said:
A search would have shown you this has already been talked about and "If" it ever did happen it would not be with any parts from China at all. The parts would have to be of the highest quality. But as I said this has already been talked about before.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if this has been discuss already then you can close the thread. still didn't find anything on the subject, maybe i'm not using the good key words to find it. anyway thanx
Hi there xda,
You can also click the picture to get redirected to their website.
I recently found out a nice "wannabe" project called Phonebloks, what's your opinion about that?
I think it's a good thing to promote it on xda too. Feel free to comment about this.
Or you can access their website > http://www.phonebloks.com/
If the website is down for some reason, you can show your support here > https://www.thunderclap.it/projects/2931-phonebloks
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Now i'll state my opinion:
I believe this is a very good ideea, takes customisation to whole new levels and if it could be packed with an [bold]Android OS[/bold], it would be the whole new level of customisation, both hardware and software on the same platform.
Anyways, i believe this ideea should be promoted, even if we will never see it come to life, the ideea is pretty darn good. In other words, let's spread the word and at least give it a chance to start or become a trend.
There should be considered some serious stuff here. Not too many people would like to carry around a bulky device, it could be customisable from hardware to software, but it should be made a little more slim, maybe this could be done in time, or who knows, there is only an ideea for now, we can speculate here and dream about it and promote it.
Yeah, there could be a few more things to be talked about, but i'm a little tired now, so i'll be around
This is, by far, the greatest innovation for mobile devices in years. Have you seen the rate the video views are going up for their YouTube video? It's amazing that the general public is interested in something like this. As for the bulky form factor, I'd take this bulky, 100 percent customizable phone over every phone on the market to date. This is insane!
Sent from my SCH-I545 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Love it! I would buy one in a heartbeat.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using xda app-developers app
This definitely looks incredible, and I would buy one if I could. My biggest concern is the price. I can't see something like this being particularly cheap. The kind of engineering and technology that would have to go into this is staggering, and for the amount of time and effort being put into this to make it simple and user friendly, if it were sold at normal phone prices, it would be an incredible risk for the developing company.
Something like this is revolutionary and has been thought of for years. The problem is hasn't come into effect is because it will destroy the market. Manufacturers release new devices every few months. If this was available, there would be no need to buy a whole new device to get the latest and greatest.
Sent from my Atrix HD using Tapatalk 4
KayxGee1 said:
Something like this is revolutionary and has been thought of for years. The problem is hasn't come into effect is because it will destroy the market. Manufacturers release new devices every few months. If this was available, there would be no need to buy a whole new device to get the latest and greatest.
Sent from my Atrix HD using Tapatalk 4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, considering the bulky form factor, there could not be too much impact on the market because:
- People would like slim phones with bigger or smaller form factors.
- Companies can still get revenue from this project by investing in bloks.
- Price could be a problem.
- Fiability could be a problem.
All in all, the project is good, first of all we should see what happens with it, if it will ever be developed or something like that. Only time will tell
Engineers first day;
Step 1 - Advil
Step 2 - cry
I like the idea. The engineering side of things is going to be quite intense.
I give them my support though
As an engineer, this would be cool. It would also be essentially impossible to create. If the CPU, RAM, and memory were soldered in then it would be much easier, but then the project loses most of its appeal.
This is an incredible idea, I've shared as much as I can without being excessive. I know this most likely will never happen but I've had a few talks with people who hate having phones that being obsolete after a year or two. I'd love to see this produced and would most defiantly support them with their endeavor. :good:
Well, surely there would be a need of some serious engineering, but hey, at least the ideea is good, people can brainstorm on getting it up and running. The ideea is good, people are interested, now, we need companies and engineers to devote to this and we'll see wat happens
KayxGee1 said:
Something like this is revolutionary and has been thought of for years. The problem is hasn't come into effect is because it will destroy the market. Manufacturers release new devices every few months. If this was available, there would be no need to buy a whole new device to get the latest and greatest.
Sent from my Atrix HD using Tapatalk 4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And that would be great.
I think people is realising that is worth having something that will last. I'm in photography and the market is just crazy, new cameras every year and so much time needed to get confident with a model that becomes obsolete even if it could work for years.
Sent from my GT-I8160 using xda app-developers app