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Hi all.
There has been a lot of confusion on the Type-C port on the Nexus devices, all of the different USB specs, how it all relates to charging using USB Type-C devices, and what kind of data speeds you can get from Type-C devices. I did a fair bit of fact finding, and thought I'd consolidate everything I learned into one topic. For now, this is kind of a "living document" in that I am constantly updating the OP to consolidate knowledge. I'm not going to post everything you could ever know about USB specs here, but have provided the links! I am going to try to keep it focused on items as they relate to the new Nexus phones. As always, if you find this helpful, I'd appreciate the thanks.
I feel the state of USB-C cables and charging devices has been fleshed out well enough, and as such, I'm no longer updating this thread.
News:
Good news for consumers! Amazon bans non-compliant USB Type-C cables.
Resources:
https://plus.google.com/+BensonLeung
Reviewed cables: https://plus.google.com/collection/s0Inv
USB Type C Explained: https://plus.google.com/collection/0Vdov
USB Type C News: https://plus.google.com/collection/EKnov
http://www.usb.org/developers/docs/ (Official specifications.)
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015...clear-up-confusion-about-all-these-usb-specs/
http://www.cnet.com/news/usb-type-c-one-cable-to-connect-them-all/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_Type-C
ACTUAL TESTING: http://www.droid-life.com/2015/10/19/nexus-6p-nexus-5x-quick-charge/
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.gombosdev.ampere&hl=en
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=63614861&postcount=91
What rate will my Nexus charge at with other devices?
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When you connect your Nexus to a host, the devices must negotiate which charging rates can be used.
Type C hosts can negotiate with Type C devices using a specific wire in the cable known as the Configuration Channel - aka, the CC wire.
If you are using a Type-A adaptor or cable, the cable must identify itself as a Legacy USB connection (Type-C being converted to Type-A) using a pull-up resistor on the CC wire, grounded to the vBus wire. This is because the CC pin does not exist on Type-A ports. The Nexus will see the resistor, know it is on a legacy port, and it will then perform power negotiation using the USB BC2.1 protocol on the USB 2.0 wires in the cable. If the host is not BC2.1 capable, it will draw default USB current. (See page 149, table 4-12 for order of precedence.)
USB Type-C ports and chargers will provide 5V at 3A (15W) - true fast charging.
USB Type-A ports and chargers using USB BC2.1 should provide a max of 5V at 1.5A (7.5W).
Standard USB 3.0 can provide 5V @ 0.9A (4.5W)
USB 2.0 defaults to 5V @ 0.5A (2.5W).
What this means is that when your phone negotiates power with the host (your charger or computer), whatever current level they mutually agree upon is what your phone will attempt to draw. If you connect to a USB 2.0 port on your computer, a very old port which does not support the BC 2.1 protocol, then the most you'll be drawing is 0.5A. If you connect to a dedicated charging device which supports BC 2.1, it should draw up to 1.5A. Charging rates depend on this negotiation. Out of specification cables do not allow this negotiation to occur correctly. This may lead to faster charging, but you also risk exceeding the capabilities of your charger which may be dangerous.
As you can see, there is a big difference between 15 watts for Type-C fast charging and 2.5 watts for USB 2. Furthermore, please be aware that the phone will pull less current as the battery charges. A Nexus at 80% battery will pull less current than a Nexus at 20% battery.
In any regard, consider USB Type A to be the weak link in charging your Nexus.
Table 4-12:
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What charger and cable will work with my new Nexus, and will it support fast charging?
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My suggestion would be to make the move to Type-C car and wall chargers. You will eliminate the chance of using out of specification Type-A cables, and ensure you are always fast charging. Type-C will soon be the de facto interface for USB, so why not future proof yourself now.
If you have to use Type-A adaptors and cables, understand that there will be limitations and concerns to be aware of. Out of specification cables being the primary issue, which is explained below. Further, your charging rates will be half (or less) than what Type-C is capable of.
Table 2-1 shows all supported power specs for Type-C charging. Please understand that Type-A ports/cables will only support up to the BC 2.1 charging level of 1.5A. If it goes beyond this, your cable may not be compliant with USB specifications.
Hi. I'm an engineer at Google who has worked on USB Type-C on the Pixel and Nexus projects.
The reason that the Google chargers and cables are capable of 5V 3A support is because not only the cables but the port on the other end is certified for the higher 3A ceiling. You will notice that the cable that came with your Nexus 5X or 6P has USB Type C on both ends.
This ensures that not only the cable, but the connectors and the charging circuitry on the other side of the cable can support 3A before the phone starts to charge.
When you have a legacy cable like this one, the connector on the other side is a USB Type-A connector, which can be plugged into any USB port built since 1997, for example your ancient Pentium II PC may have a USB port that this cable could be plugged into.
NONE of those USB Type-A ports are rated to support 3A, so many of the USB Type-A to Type-C cables available on Amazon that claim they are rated at 3A and configure the identifier resistor to tell the phone to charge at 3A are not in compliance and could do damage to your charger, hub, or PC if you try to charge at 3A.
When you have a legacy cable like this, 2.4A, which is negotiated over a BC1.2 protocol like CDP or DCP, is appropriate over the Type-A connector. Any cable that you buy that claims 3A support I would be extremely wary of plugging into any of your hubs, PCs, or dedicated chargers.
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Click to collapse
By the way, the maximum current of 1.5A is defined by the BC1.2 specification for CDP and DCP, but in practice, a range of other current values are possible using Apple's proprietary protocol or other protocols that bump up the defacto maximum current with a Type A connector on one end up to 2.4A, as long as the charger and the device both support that current limit.
However, keep in mind that there are 3 different termination possibilities. If you have the USB Type-C Specification 1.1, take a look at section 4.11.1, and at Table 4-13.
You'll notice that DFP Advertisement lists "Default USB Power" "1.5A @ 5V" and "3.0A @ 5V". It's important to read note 1. If you are making a legacy USB cable that has Type-C plug on one end, and a Type A plug on the other or a Type-B receptacle, you must use the "Default USB Power" termination, and NOT the "1.5A" one. Default USB power defers to BC 1.2 spec for current negotiation, so that such a cable that is attached to a basic 500mA SDP port should only draw 500mA, for example. Make sure to use a 56 kΩ pullup!
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As referenced in the quote, Table 4-13:
What about QuickCharge 2.0/3.0 chargers!? My Nexus has a Qualcomm chip, isn't it compatible?
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No. Google has stated that it is not implemented in the new Nexus devices.
QuickCharge works by increasing voltage and amperage to charge quickly. The USB Type-C standard only works this way in USB PD modes, otherwise voltage never varies from 5V. This means that QuickCharge 2.0/3.0 is completely different from USB Type-C charging methods.
But my 2.4A rated Type-A charger works, and my phone says it is Fast Charging. What's the deal?
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Your Nexus may report as fast charging if the Type-A cable you use is not compliant with USB specs.
Threads on this forum have confirmed that the phone will pull 3A (or about 2990mA) from the stock charger. These results were verified using apps such as Ampere. When using 3rd party equipment (non-OEM cables and chargers), I would suggest using an application such as Ampere to ensure that you are not exceeding the maximum rating of the charger or cable. Doing so can be dangerous! It will also verify exactly how much current your phone is pulling to charge - information I've found helpful if for no other reason than to satisfy my own curiosity.
If you are unsure if your cable is compliant, you can test it using the methods found here: http://www.androidheadlines.com/201...usb-type-c-for-nexus-5x-6p-compatibility.html
So, how should you approach charging and connecting your Nexus to other devices?
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The same way you would any other device - plug it into the best thing you have available.
For connecting to computers, use the best port you have available. Type-C to Type-C > USB 3.x to Type-C > USB 2 to Type-C.
For chargers, try to match OEM specs: 5 volts at 3 amps output using a Type C connector.
If you have to use an adapter (Type-A to Type-C), Make sure you use compliant cables!
What data connection speeds will I get on my Nexus using Type-C?
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If you want to dig deep into this, look at the "USB Type-C Specification Release 1.1.pdf" doc from USB.org, it defines on page 19 the types of plugs and cables for Type-C, including the USB 2.0 Type-C port. Starting at page 57 it defines all of the wires/pins for the different cables. Comparing table 3-10 to 3-11, you can see that all of the SDP (shielded differential pair) signal pins/wires are missing in the USB 2.0 Type-C connections. These are your high speed data connection wires. The Vbus, Vconn, cc, GND wires are all still present to support Type-C power delivery.
So, in other words, there are USB 2.0 Type-C ports, and USB 3.0 ports. For devices which don't require up to 100 watts of power, or won't use up to 10GB/s transfer speeds, the USB-C 2.0 port may commonly be used. The Nexus 5X & 6P fall into this category. What connection speeds are you going to get with the Nexus? USB 2.0 speeds.
Full Featured USB Type-C Cable:
USB 2.0 Type-C to Type-A cable:
If I left any glaring omissions from this, please follow up. I'd love to have all the info we can get.
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I wanted to put in this addition to the op. Thanks to @aaron_huber for putting this information up.
Aaron said:
A wire is a wire, but in this case the magic is in the charger, the device, AND THE CABLE. From the USB-C Wikipedia page:
Full-featured USB Type-C cables are active, electronically marked cables that contain a chip with an ID function based on the configuration data channel and vendor-defined messages (VDMs) from the USB Power Delivery 2.0 specification. USB Type-C devices also support power currents of 1.5 A and 3.0 A over the 5 V power bus in addition to baseline 900 mA; devices can either negotiate increased USB current through the configuration line, or they can support the full Power Delivery specification using both BMC-coded configuration line and legacy BFSK-coded VBUS line.
The 6P does not support the full PD spec per Google, but it does use the "configuration line" which is an extra wire in the USB-C cable hooked up to an extra pin in the phone/charger to talk to the charger and negotiate extra current. If you don't have a USB-C cable with the extra pins/wires plugged into a USB-C charger on the other end that also has the extra pins to do the negotiation, then the phone will fall back to a lower current because the spec requires it. If you plug it into a USB-A charger or use a USB-A to USB-C cable then all you get are four wires - the "configuration line" to do the negotiation doesn't exist.
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* Type-C capabilities exceeds previous USB Type-A 3.1 / 2.0 specifications:
** 2 way power transfer
** Universal plug type (reversible plug)
** Much high transfer speeds (10GB/s)
** Much higher charging capabilities (Up to [email protected] = 100W via USB PD)
** Alternate data modes for devices (Display port / Audio)
Known Type-C capabilities for Nexus 5x & 6P:
+ USB 2.0 Data transfer speeds
+ Full fast charging through USB Type-C ports or specifically designed 5v/3a capable Type-C chargers only
- Not Qualcomm QuickCharge compatible (may draw more current for charging than a standard USB port though, see below)
- No HDMI out (It is not type-c alternate mode capable.)
- Not USB-PD capable
Thanks all!
Nice post!
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ylexot said:
Nice post!
Sent from my LG-V410 using Tapatalk
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Thank you!
Are 3.1 Type C cables backward compatible with 2.0 type C devices? I ask because if they are wouldn't it make sense for people to buy USB 3.1 Type C cables for future proofing vs 2.0?
I am in the market for a long cable and am confused as to which of the cables below to chose.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...able&qid=1444414379&ref_=sr_1_59&s=pc&sr=1-59
http://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters...ME5bDiL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160,160_
toyanucci said:
Are 3.1 Type C cables backward compatible with 2.0 type C devices? I ask because if they are wouldn't it make sense for people to buy USB 3.1 Type C cables for future proofing vs 2.0?
I am in the market for a long cable and am confused as to which of the cables below to chose.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...able&qid=1444414379&ref_=sr_1_59&s=pc&sr=1-59
http://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters...ME5bDiL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160,160_
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USB type c is just the physical connector it has nothing to do with the usb 2.0 or 3.0 so you might as well by the fastest ones
What we do need to worry about is whether or not the cable itself supports charging at 3A 5v
Looking at the two, it appears that the Cable Matters product is a cable designed to connect a computer with Type-C port to a peripherals with USB 2.0 Type-C ports. (Like the Nexus 6p.) The maximum data speeds for this would be USB 2.0 speeds. Looks like a very nicely constructed cable - look at the connection ends, and polished metal. If all you were doing is connecting smart phones to your laptop, this is the type of product I would buy.
The J&D cable appears to be a full-feature type-c cable, and should support every supported type-c data rate. I'm not in love with the picture of the product though. Doesn't look quite as nice as the Cable Matters product. If you wanted to connect two devices with full 10GB/s connectivity, this would be the type of cable I would get.
It is my opinion that the two products are good examples of a well made USB 2.0 Type-C cable and a cheaply made full-feature Type-C cable. The full feature cables have to include more pins/wires, and are thus more expensive to produce.
Chilidog said:
USB type c is just the physical connector it has nothing to do with the usb 2.0 or 3.0 so you might as well by the fastest ones
What we do need to worry about is whether or not the cable itself supports charging at 3A 5v
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Technically incorrect, but essentially right.
Assuming both cables adhere to standards, the Cable Matters USB 2.0 Type-C cable is (most likely) missing the data pins & wires needed to transfer at the rated Type-C 10GB/s speeds; however, it should still have all of the power pins and wires to charge at 5V 3A. The J&D cable, presumably being a full-feature cable, should support full Type-C power (100W) and data (10GB/s) speeds, and will also charge a Nexus at 5V 3A.
Elnrik said:
Technically incorrect, but essentially right.
Assuming both cables adhere to standards, the Cable Matters USB 2.0 Type-C cable is (most likely) missing the data pins & wires needed to transfer at the rated Type-C 10GB/s speeds; however, it should still have all of the power pins and wires to charge at 5A 3A. The J&D cable, presumably being a full-feature cable, should support full Type-C power (100W) and data (10GB/s) speeds, and will also charge a Nexus at 5V 3A.
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So for just charging it would make sense to get the better constructed cable based on your observations?
At this point, it's more about the cable you use than the charger. Using a backwards 3.0/3.1 compatible C to A cable will get you the same speeds as a standard C to C cable in USB use. The chargers coming standard with the phone are C to charger, so Google seems to be indicating separate charging and USB use here. However, compatible untethered chargers are available in both the Google stores and elsewhere. Just make sure if you're not buying the Google charger, you get one with the right specs.
kibmikey1 said:
At this point, it's more about the cable you use than the charger. Using a backwards 3.0/3.1 compatible C to A cable will get you the same speeds as a standard C to C cable in USB use. The chargers coming standard with the phone are C to charger, so Google seems to be indicating separate charging and USB use here. However, compatible untethered chargers are available in both the Google stores and elsewhere. Just make sure if you're not buying the Google charger, you get one with the right specs.
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Yh, I;m still waiting for charging bricks with the correct specs but would just get the 6.6 ft cable from now.
Elnrik said:
Worst case would be it sends 12V at 3A (36W) to your phone and your Nexus dies in a exploding lithium maelstrom of fiery chaos.
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Leave it to Android to steal more features from the iPhone....
Elnrik said:
snip
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So, if I read your post correctly, (very good post btw), if I were to buy a charger for work, I should try to find a USB-c to USB-c cable (5V/3A), and a USB-c wall plug, because the USB-c standard is what gets you the 15W? Using a USB-c to USB-a cable, even if it was rated for 3A, would max out at 10W?
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kibmikey1 said:
At this point, it's more about the cable you use than the charger.
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This is a bit misleading, and while I see what your point is, I urge caution using such general statements. A one amp charger with a Type-A port, a computer's USB 2 port, a USB 3.1 port, and a Type-C port connected to Type-C adaptors will all produce different charging rates for attached USB Type-C devices.
toyanucci said:
So for just charging it would make sense to get the better constructed cable based on your observations?
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I'm the type who thinks it's better to get the better constructed everything. So I'd look for a "USB 3.1" compatible C to C cable that was built well.
Elnrik said:
This is a bit misleading, and while I see what your point is, I urge caution using such general statements. A one amp charger with a Type-A port, a computer's USB 2 port, a USB 3.1 port, and a Type-C port connected to Type-C adaptors will all produce different charging rates for attached USB Type-C devices.
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True, but I was talking about USB transfer speeds, not USB charging speeds, since Google seems to be indicating separate charging and USB connectivity use with these phones, as evidenced by them including separate chargers and cables with them. Actually, only the 6P has both, the 5X only has the tethered charger.
heleos said:
So, if I read your post correctly, (very good post btw), if I were to buy a charger for work, I should try to find a USB-c to USB-c cable (5V/3A), and a USB-c wall plug, because the USB-c standard is what gets you the 15W? Using a USB-c to USB-a cable, even if it was rated for 3A, would max out at 10W?
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
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Yes, exactly.
Edit: According to what I've read, anyway. There might be something about 3.1 Type A ports that I'm not aware of which will allow 15W power. I know the 3.1 Type A port has extra pins. Just haven't been able to find in the 3.1 spec sheet a 100% absolutely for sure explanation either way. The Type-C specs pretty clearly spell out power states though, so I'm going to continue going by that. See attachment.
Second Edit: No, it would max out at 15 watts. The current I in amps (A) is equal to the power P in watts (W) divided by the voltage V in volts (V):
I = P / V.
3.0 Amps = 15 Watts / 5 Volts.
Or just buy a hard wired type-c charger like the one on the play store.
https://store.google.com/product/usb_c_charger
It won't power 100w, but I'm sure someone makes one that will.
Elnrik said:
Or just buy a hard wired type-c charger like the one on the play store.
https://store.google.com/product/usb_c_charger
It won't power 100w, but I'm sure someone makes one that will.
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It's currently sold out. They also have a 60W version with a 12' cable but it's $59.
Ouch that's a bit pricey!
heleos said:
So, if I read your post correctly, (very good post btw), if I were to buy a charger for work, I should try to find a USB-c to USB-c cable (5V/3A), and a USB-c wall plug, because the USB-c standard is what gets you the 15W? Using a USB-c to USB-a cable, even if it was rated for 3A, would max out at 10W?
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Why not just get the 15W charger Google sells?
---------- Post added at 09:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:47 PM ----------
seezar said:
It's currently sold out. They also have a 60W version with a 12' cable but it's $59.
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Ooh man.. Good thing I loaded two of them into my pre-order. Almost everything I pre-ordered is sold out.
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Huh?!
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Pretty sure he wants to know if the new macbook charger will work. Right now that is the only usb type c to type c charger.
T_VASS said:
Pretty sure he wants to know if the new macbook charger will work. Right now that is the only usb type c to type c charger.
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No, Google sells Type-C to Type-C ones but its out of stock right now
I'm fairly certain Apple's USB-C charger will work fine, but it's $49 without a cable.
Google's offering is cheaper, has two ports, plus a cable so I'd wait for that.
Apple Stuff
You want a charger compatible with Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0 for the 6P. Quick charge allows charging at 5V, 9V and 12V. The charger will supply the voltage/amperage appropriate for the current charge level of the battery. Most older phone chargers are 5V and will work, but will not quick charge the phone. You can, however, us a Type C to Type C cable and charge your phone from a MacBook Pro Type C connector.
dwswager said:
You want a charger compatible with Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0 for the 6P. Quick charge allows charging at 5V, 9V and 12V. The charger will supply the voltage/amperage appropriate for the current charge level of the battery. Most older phone chargers are 5V and will work, but will not quick charge the phone. You can, however, us a Type C to Type C cable and charge your phone from a MacBook Pro Type C connector.
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That's a misnomer for the QC2.0 stuff. The usb-c to usb-c charger is automatically going to work with 5v/3a charging without the need for QC enabled functionality. Actually, there is some debate as to whether or not QC2.0 will even work with this phone if you have a standard usb-a to usb-c connector on a QC2.0 usb-a port.
htowngator said:
That's a misnomer for the QC2.0 stuff. The usb-c to usb-c charger is automatically going to work with 5v/3a charging without the need for QC enabled functionality. Actually, there is some debate as to whether or not QC2.0 will even work with this phone if you have a standard usb-a to usb-c connector on a QC2.0 usb-a port.
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Click to collapse
Yes, the Type C to Type C has nothing to do with QuickCharge. It is a USB standard.
However, QC 2.0 works now on dozens of phones with Type A to Type B (Micro USB 2.0) connectors. If you connect it to a PC USB 2.0 connector, you will only get 5V! In fact, I suspect that even my USB 3.0 ports on my Gigabyte P5-USB3 motherboard also only supplies 5V. You must have a charger port set up to supply the higher voltages. If you look at the Wall/Car chargers that are QC2.0 compliant they usually have 1 QC2.0 slot and 1 or more standard slots that will only supply 5V.
Interesting point is the iPhone 6s actually has Qualcom QC 2.0 built in, but not utilized by Apple. The supplied charger with 6s is underpowered and a 6s can be charged much more quickly with a higher amp charger like that for an iPad or Kindle Fire.
dwswager said:
Interesting point is the iPhone 6s actually has Qualcom QC 2.0 built in, but not utilized by Apple. The supplied charger with 6s is underpowered and a 6s can be charged much more quickly with a higher amp charger like that for an iPad or Kindle Fire.
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Isn't quick-charge soc specific, as in only on Qualcomm processors?
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dwswager said:
Yes, the Type C to Type C has nothing to do with QuickCharge. It is a USB standard.
However, QC 2.0 works now on dozens of phones with Type A to Type B (Micro USB 2.0) connectors. If you connect it to a PC USB 2.0 connector, you will only get 5V! In fact, I suspect that even my USB 3.0 ports on my Gigabyte P5-USB3 motherboard also only supplies 5V. You must have a charger port set up to supply the higher voltages. If you look at the Wall/Car chargers that are QC2.0 compliant they usually have 1 QC2.0 slot and 1 or more standard slots that will only supply 5V.
Interesting point is the iPhone 6s actually has Qualcom QC 2.0 built in, but not utilized by Apple. The supplied charger with 6s is underpowered and a 6s can be charged much more quickly with a higher amp charger like that for an iPad or Kindle Fire.
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It works but it won't charge above the 5V rating hence no quick charge... Your intentionally stating something that can be misread
---------- Post added at 12:23 ---------- Previous post was at 12:22 ----------
heleos said:
Isn't quick-charge soc specific, as in only on Qualcomm processors?
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It uses Qualcomm power control chip so it cna work with other SOC's like Intel lr Exynos
Pilz said:
It works but it won't charge above the 5V rating hence no quick charge... Your intentionally stating something that can be misread
---------- Post added at 12:23 ---------- Previous post was at 12:22 ----------
It uses Qualcomm power control chip so it cna work with other SOC's like Intel lr Exynos
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Learn something new every day!
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heleos said:
Learn something new every day!
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My Zenfone 2 had QC2 with an intel chip but ASUS called it quick charge with their 'boostmaster' charger but in reality it was just QC 2.0. Samsung calls it adaptive fast charging but its still QC2 etc....the Nexus likely doesn't support QC 2 because it requires a license as another member mentioned which would add to the overall cost
Not sure what you think is misleading, but let me try to clarify:
1. If you have a QC2.0 compliant charger and a QC2.0 compliant device, then QC2.0 will work regardless of the type of connector on the ends of the cable.
2. iPhone 6s has the capability for QC 2.0 built in, but can not do it because it is not utilized. However, you can provide higher amperage to the device at the same voltage than what the standard 6s charger supplies and hence, it will charge faster (not QC 2.0 though).
Pilz said:
It works but it won't charge above the 5V rating hence no quick charge... Your intentionally stating something that can be misread
---------- Post added at 12:23 ---------- Previous post was at 12:22 ----------
It uses Qualcomm power control chip so it cna work with other SOC's like Intel lr Exynos
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dwswager said:
Not sure what you think is misleading, but let me try to clarify:
1. If you have a QC2.0 compliant charger and a QC2.0 compliant device, then QC2.0 will work regardless of the type of connector on the ends of the cable.
2. iPhone 6s has the capability for QC 2.0 built in, but can not do it because it is not utilized. However, you can provide higher amperage to the device at the same voltage than what the standard 6s charger supplies and hence, it will charge faster (not QC 2.0 though).
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Understood, but there are plenty of threads debating what the actual volts/amps will be on the phone if you use A-to-C with QC2.0 chargers. According to the spec it is 15W (9V/1.8A or 5V/3A), correct?
dwswager said:
Not sure what you think is misleading, but let me try to clarify:
1. If you have a QC2.0 compliant charger and a QC2.0 compliant device, then QC2.0 will work regardless of the type of connector on the ends of the cable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The 6P isn't a QC2.0 compliant device.
Sent from my LG-V410 using Tapatalk
htowngator said:
Understood, but there are plenty of threads debating what the actual volts/amps will be on the phone if you use A-to-C with QC2.0 chargers. According to the spec it is 15W (9V/1.8A or 5V/3A), correct?
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It will get the voltage/amps determined by the charger. The 6P is not QC 2.0 CERTIFIED. Google didn't go for the pretty sticker.
From the QC 2.0 FAQ:
Q6: Does it matter what type of charging cable is used with a Quick Charge 2.0 adapter?
A: Quick Charge 2.0 is designed to be connector-independent. Quick Charge 2.0 can be implemented with a variety of formats, including USB Type-A, USB micro, USB Type-C, and other proprietary connectors.
Quick Charge 2.0 high-voltage operation is designed to minimize charging issues associated with long or thin cables, allowing for a superior charging experience, independent of cable type.
dwswager said:
It will get the voltage/amps determined by the charger. The 6P is not QC 2.0 CERTIFIED. Google didn't go for the pretty sticker.
From the QC 2.0 FAQ:
Q6: Does it matter what type of charging cable is used with a Quick Charge 2.0 adapter?
A: Quick Charge 2.0 is designed to be connector-independent. Quick Charge 2.0 can be implemented with a variety of formats, including USB Type-A, USB micro, USB Type-C, and other proprietary connectors.
Quick Charge 2.0 high-voltage operation is designed to minimize charging issues associated with long or thin cables, allowing for a superior charging experience, independent of cable type.
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Click to collapse
You're arguing this in two different threads with multiple people trying to educate you on the power PIC controller interface. The chipset can handle the charging, but the actual usb power interface controller won't pass along those signals. It's not like applying a wire and getting charge -- there is a handshake that happens for the correct charging current and voltage to be applied.
htowngator said:
You're arguing this in two different threads with multiple people trying to educate you on the power PIC controller interface. The chipset can handle the charging, but the actual usb power interface controller won't pass along those signals. It's not like applying a wire and getting charge -- there is a handshake that happens for the correct charging current and voltage to be applied.
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Gotcha. The phone will identify the voltage requirement and the charger (assuming intelligent) will supply that voltage at it's rated amps. Actually, the default for all USB is 5V. If the charger does not get the handshake it will default to 5V. So a 5V/3A charger that is capable of multiple voltages will only supply 5V to such a device. Which is what the Google charger supplies. Most chargers will default to 5V and less than 3A however.
I will be interested in testing the Google charger and phone when I get it in my hands. The problem with charging is the change in resistance as the battery charges which is the point in multiple voltages. I like the new USB-Power Delivery setup, but there will be teething problem for early adoption.
I'm looking for a USB-C plug for my Nexus 6P. There are so few on the market and I would like to try one.
http://www.amazon.com/Charging-Qualcomm-Certified-Supported-included/dp/B017I7EX46/
Anybody tried this charger and cc cable? Reviews say it works pretty well, but is there any tool like CheckR to test and approve the usb-c plug and cable? This might be important to note, due to the whole fiasco with the cables which would damage the phone/charger due to incorrect build. Benson Leung only tests AC cables as far as I know.
While there is the potential for a USB C charger and cable to not be powerful enough to meet the 3amp charging spec, a type C to C cable is unlikely to fail to be compliant in the same way as the A to C cables are.
The A to C cables were mostly non compliant as they were being identified as being compatible with the USB C spec and thus being able to supply 3amps of power, whereas in reality cables/chargers with type A connectors max out at 2.4 amps or in most cases a lot less.
A-C cables required a 56K resistor, but most companies initially used a 10K one which was the issue. C-C cables don't need a resistor the way that the A-C ones do,so they should all be compliant from what I understand.
Azarin said:
While there is the potential for a USB C charger and cable to not be powerful enough to meet the 3amp charging spec, a type C to C cable is unlikely to fail to be compliant in the same way as the A to C cables are.
The A to C cables were mostly non compliant as they were being identified as being compatible with the USB C spec and thus being able to supply 3amps of power, whereas in reality cables/chargers with type A connectors max out at 2.4 amps or in most cases a lot less.
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I have been looking at the end chotech charger on amazon for 2 days now trying to figure out if it's OK or not since it's not on the Benson list of approved chargers.
Are you saying that if you get a charger like the one in the original posters link that has a USB c port you'll be fine because there is no USB A cable in the equation?
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
jimmiekain said:
I have been looking at the end chotech charger on amazon for 2 days now trying to figure out if it's OK or not since it's not on the Benson list of approved chargers.
Are you saying that if you get a charger like the one in the original posters link that has a USB c port you'll be fine because there is no USB A cable in the equation?
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
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It should be fine as long as it only supports 5V/3(like the Choetech does) and not a different quick charging method like QC 2.0/3.0.
Pilz said:
It should be fine as long as it only supports 5V/3(like the Choetech does) and not a different quick charging method like QC 2.0/3.0.
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Sounds great I'm ordering it right now.
One more question, I found a C 2 C cable and it's 3Meters long. Does the length of the cable matter?
Here's the one I'm looking at https://goo.gl/photos/jEYvVABFZFPy2B2g9
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Pilz said:
It should be fine as long as it only supports 5V/3(like the Choetech does) and not a different quick charging method like QC 2.0/3.0.
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Click to collapse
Even if it supports Qualcomm's QuickCharge, isn't part of the QC spec that there's a chip inside the charger to identify QC-capable devices and otherwise act as a 'normal' charger?
I would think so long as it supports 5V/3A you would be fine no matter what other standard it supports.
Here's a link to a google doc that details cables and charges that have been tested. It says if the item is compliant or not.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wJwqv3rTNmORXz-XJsQaXK1dl8I91V4-eP_sfNVNzbA/edit#gid=0
jimmiekain said:
Sounds great I'm ordering it right now.
One more question, I found a C 2 C cable and it's 3Meters long. Does the length of the cable matter?
Here's the one I'm looking at https://goo.gl/photos/jEYvVABFZFPy2B2g9
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see an issue, but keep in mine that longer cables could have a current drop due to increased resistance over the length. It shouldn't be a huge amount so I wouldn't worry about it. I use the Google 6ft C-C cable and get the full 3A when my battery is below 40%.
jhoff80 said:
Even if it supports Qualcomm's QuickCharge, isn't part of the QC spec that there's a chip inside the charger to identify QC-capable devices and otherwise act as a 'normal' charger?
I would think so long as it supports 5V/3A you would be fine no matter what other standard it supports.
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That's correct, but I don't want to fully recommend something that could cause an issue. I have a charger with QC 3.0 over the Type-C port and I have 0 issues using it. It still violates the USB standard to have QC 2.0/3.0 over a Type-C port, but that doesn't mean it won't work. It works, but could potentially cause an issue at some point. I can link you the post by Benson Leung along with the appropriate USB standard if you need it.
Pilz said:
That's correct, but I don't want to fully recommend something that could cause an issue. I have a charger with QC 3.0 over the Type-C port and I have 0 issues using it. It still violates the USB standard to have QC 2.0/3.0 over a Type-C port, but that doesn't mean it won't work. It works, but could potentially cause an issue at some point. I can link you the post by Benson Leung along with the appropriate USB standard if you need it.
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By any chance have you tested this one?
USB Type C Wall Charger, Tronsmart 33W Dual USB Turbo Wall Charger with Quick Charge 3.0 Technology for Nexus 6P, Nexus 5X (5V/3A)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B019C23ZGW
Still waiting to receive mine. Obviously it's not up to spec because of the type-c + QC 3.0 standard on the same port but hopefully it works fine. And I also really want that extra type A port and foldable pins. I'm also thinking of getting a Robin when it comes out which uses type-C but with QC 2.0.
rndll said:
By any chance have you tested this one?
USB Type C Wall Charger, Tronsmart 33W Dual USB Turbo Wall Charger with Quick Charge 3.0 Technology for Nexus 6P, Nexus 5X (5V/3A)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B019C23ZGW
Still waiting to receive mine. Obviously it's not up to spec because of the type-c + QC 3.0 standard on the same port but hopefully it works fine. And I also really want that extra type A port and foldable pins. I'm also thinking of getting a Robin when it comes out which uses type-C but with QC 2.0.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't tested that charger, but I do have the exact same model with 2 Type-A ports instead of 1 A and 1 C. Maybe Tronsmart will send me one to test out You can see a review of the version I have in my signature (last link that's says Tronsmart Titan). I have their car charger which also has the same voltages over the Type-C port and it charges my 6P just fine even though its technically not in spec.
Pilz said:
I haven't tested that charger, but I do have the exact same model with 2 Type-A ports instead of 1 A and 1 C. Maybe Tronsmart will send me one to test out You can see a review of the version I have in my signature (last link that's says Tronsmart Titan). I have their car charger which also has the same voltages over the Type-C port and it charges my 6P just fine even though its technically not in spec.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah saw that when you first posted it. I've had other Tronsmart chargers and cables before. I also bought the Titan when it first came out too and they haven't failed or anything yet. I'm just a little cautious since type-C is new. Hopefully Tronsmart sends you the wall charger to test. I won't get mine for a few weeks due to international shipping and everything.
I've got the Choetech C to C charger and cable. Would recommend it without any hesitation. Build quality is on par with the stock charger, but nothing more. It's not braided or anything, so it's a normal cable with a normal charger
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
rndll said:
Yeah saw that when you first posted it. I've had other Tronsmart chargers and cables before. I also bought the Titan when it first came out too and they haven't failed or anything yet. I'm just a little cautious since type-C is new. Hopefully Tronsmart sends you the wall charger to test. I won't get mine for a few weeks due to international shipping and everything.
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Click to collapse
I guess we will see what happens. The Titan is a beast, but I can't use the full potential is has with 2 phones. The wall charger should work fine if it's anything like their car charger.
Has anyone used this yet? Thoughts? It appears to be a new model.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LGO9LE4/
Was gonna pick one up when they drop 10 bucks or go on sale. Looks perfect though and half the price of the belkin.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
I would wait to see if Benson reviews it, awful lot of stuff out there that operates out of spec.
I agree. Unless you absolutely need one right now, I'd wait until they review more stuff or just pony up $40 for the Belkin... WAY too much variation in how these manufacturers are producing USB-C chargers.
Nitemare3219 said:
I agree. Unless you absolutely need one right now, I'd wait until they review more stuff or just pony up $40 for the Belkin... WAY too much variation in how these manufacturers are producing USB-C chargers.
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I agree. I was totally in the dark until I started following Benson and Nathan. Especially with Aukey, I don't think I'll risk it. Plus it's only a 15w.
myboyblake said:
I agree. I was totally in the dark until I started following Benson and Nathan. Especially with Aukey, I don't think I'll risk it. Plus it's only a 15w.
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Click to collapse
The quoted charger is actually over 18W, so it will charge the Pixel at full speed. I'd like to buy one because it's the only option, but... my 15W standard type C charger will hold me over for now.
bought 2 of these bad boys today. its 24w and quickcharge 3.0, also it comes with a 3ft usb type c charge cable for 12.99!
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01KCAJ1HK/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
jscharf10 said:
bought 2 of these bad boys today. its 24w and quickcharge 3.0, also it comes with a 3ft usb type c charge cable for 12.99!
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01KCAJ1HK/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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Click to collapse
It's USB A though....
myboyblake said:
It's USB A though....
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Yea it's USB A to USB C, IV had other USB C to USB C and there is no difference in charging speed for one, for two this is a good inexpensive option that comes with a USB A to USB C cable
I bought this charger along with a Black Squid Type-C to Type-C cable and it shows "charging rapidly" for me.
mastamoon said:
Was gonna pick one up when they drop 10 bucks or go on sale. Looks perfect though and half the price of the belkin.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is half the price but it doesn't include a USB c cable. The Belkin does. Just something to keep in mind.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
I bought this charger and it's working great. Using the USB a-c cable that was bundled with the Pixel.
My last car charger was a very similar, low profile Aukey one with QC 2.0 and I never had any issues with it either.
This is the one I use. Fast charges both my Nexus 6p and Pixel XL. I think it was mentioned by Benson to be good also.
https://www.amazon.com/charger-Nekteck-Charger-Adapter-Integrated/dp/B0172QQNBY
Tronsmart always has a rebadge version of what Aukey has or vice versa, anyone try this one?
https://www.amazon.com/Tronsmart-Charger-Delivery-MacBook-Tablet/dp/B01MRGTZZD
I bought one of these a few weeks ago but haven't used it yet.. Was waiting to get thumbsup from Benson first.
Looks like Nathan K on G+ has started testing it, looks iffy..
https://plus.google.com/102612254593917101378/posts/C6iWFDfSGt4?sfc=true
Pheno.menon said:
I bought this charger and it's working great. Using the USB a-c cable that was bundled with the Pixel.
My last car charger was a very similar, low profile Aukey one with QC 2.0 and I never had any issues with it either.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uh... the Power Delivery charging is ONLY through the USB Type C port... charging via USB A does absolutely nothing for you.
jscharf10 said:
bought 2 of these bad boys today. its 24w and quickcharge 3.0, also it comes with a 3ft usb type c charge cable for 12.99!
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01KCAJ1HK/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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Click to collapse
The Pixel does not support Quick Charge. Don't know what you will get from USB-A to USB-C.
Good setup is 5V/3A = 15W from a good USB-C charger and cable.
Best setup is 9V/2A = 18W from a good USB-C PD charger and cable
moogaloo said:
The Pixel does not support Quick Charge. Don't know what you will get from USB-A to USB-C.
Good setup is 5V/3A = 15W from a good USB-C charger and cable.
Best setup is 9V/2A = 18W from a good USB-C PD charger and cable
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All I'm saying is these chargers are 24w / 3A , and when I plug in my pixel it tells me rapidly charging. I can get a full charge in the same amount of time as my charger I received with my pixel phone, or the Belkin USB type c charger I have , just trying to save you guys some money. As for reliability I had a 6p when they first came out and the battery and phone are still good in that an I have always used that charger. Hope this helps!
---------- Post added at 12:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:15 PM ----------
moogaloo said:
The Pixel does not support Quick Charge. Don't know what you will get from USB-A to USB-C.
Good setup is 5V/3A = 15W from a good USB-C charger and cable.
Best setup is 9V/2A = 18W from a good USB-C PD charger and cable
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Although the Snapdragon 821 is capable of Quick Charge 3.0 for the Pixel, it looks like Google has elected to use the USB-C Power Delivery standard. I just looked up a bunch of very confusing technical stuff, but the big advantage of PD is use of the data connection within USB-C while charging. ( like from a computer ). I don't think there is very much difference in the rate of charging with PD vs Quick Charge. Rest assured, the Pixels will charge VERY quickly.
I'm on my way to work but this should sum it up, all sd821 are quick charge 3.0 capable, like I said this charger is 24w/3a an you won't be using the USB PD features while charging in your car anyway.
jscharf10 said:
bought 2 of these bad boys today. its 24w and quickcharge 3.0, also it comes with a 3ft usb type c charge cable for 12.99!
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01KCAJ1HK/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a standard 5v 2.4A charger according to it's specs, at max you'll get 12w decent charge albeit not "max" but who cares, since the Pixel doesn't support qc. Using it with the stock pixel a to c cable should be safe, I wouldn't use an untested cable tho and risk frying the Pixel.
The blitzwolf usb-c +a car charger, non qc, is only $5 delivered on Banggoods on sale, comes usb-c cabled and has usb a slot. I use it and get a good safe charge from it.
The visnic has been tested to work well, only $10 but you need a cable too.
Hey, I lost the charger for my G5 RS988 and I'm having a really hard time finding a replacement (I want the same one that came with the phone).
I was in a rush to find a replacement, and the only store that had a USB-C chord was Staples. So I bought their cable and used an old brick I had for the outlet.
The phone does charge, but it takes forever compared to the LG charger. I called LG and they told me that the charger shipped with the G5 is no longer in production.
I've read a few articles about the damage that can be done when using a cable with improper specs; I'm hoping the setup I described above isn't hurting the phone.
Does anyone have any suggestions on a third party USB-C charger with Quick Charge 3.0 capabilities? Is Quick Charge just on the phone's end, or does the charger also need to be Quick Charge compatible?
Thanks,
Adam
You need to have a QC compatible charger. I use an Aukey QC2.0 AC charger and an Anker QC3.0 car charger for mine and "Fast Charging" works great. If I bought a new charger for the house, I'd probably go for a new Anker QC3.0 like this:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B076T4HTQV
Rev_Pizzaguy said:
You need to have a QC compatible charger. I use an Aukey QC2.0 AC charger and an Anker QC3.0 car charger for mine and "Fast Charging" works great. If I bought a new charger for the house, I'd probably go for a new Anker QC3.0 like this:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B076T4HTQV
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Click to collapse
Cool. Just ordered it. Does the USB-C cable also need to be QC 3.0 compatible? I have a Staples brand.
No, as long as it follows USB Type-C spec and can deliver the current, it should be fine. I've even used one of my older micro USB cables with a Type-C adapter and it's worked great.
Rev_Pizzaguy said:
No, as long as it follows USB Type-C spec and can deliver the current, it should be fine. I've even used one of my older micro USB cables with a Type-C adapter and it's worked great.
Click to expand...
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Awesome. Thanks to everyone for all the help!
I'm using Tronsmart now. ?
cheeze.keyk said:
I'm using Tronsmart now.
Click to expand...
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Cool. Does that Tron device suck you into the unit and on a speeder bike?
adam79 said:
Awesome. Thanks to everyone for all the help!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rev_Pizzaguy said:
No, as long as it follows USB Type-C spec and can deliver the current, it should be fine. I've even used one of my older micro USB cables with a Type-C adapter and it's worked great.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is not true. Cables also have specs on how much current are able to pass. I have a low spec type-C cable that does not 'fast' charge the LG G5. You should seek for type-C cables capable to pass 2.1 A or more, compatible to QC2.0 or QC3.0 charging. I prefer Blitzwolf cables. They are have high quality.
gtsip said:
That is not true. Cables also have specs on how much current are able to pass. I have a low spec type-C cable that does not 'fast' charge the LG G5. You should seek for type-C cables capable to pass 2.1 A or more, compatible to QC2.0 or QC3.0 charging. I prefer Blitzwolf cables. They are have high quality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My cable seems alright. I got that charger the guy recommended, Aukey, I think. Phone charges up much quicker now. Thanks again,
gtsip said:
That is not true. Cables also have specs on how much current are able to pass. I have a low spec type-C cable that does not 'fast' charge the LG G5. You should seek for type-C cables capable to pass 2.1 A or more, compatible to QC2.0 or QC3.0 charging. I prefer Blitzwolf cables. They are have high quality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like I said, "as long as it follows USB Type-C spec". Part of the spec includes the ability to pass the required amount of current for Type-C Power Delivery, which is up to 100W. Any cable that meets this spec is more than capable of handling QC3.0. However, just because a cable has a Type-C connector does not mean it meets spec. If you need some help figuring out if a cable meets spec or not, Benson Leung is a good resource.