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USB Type-C -vs- USB 3.0/3.1 -vs- USB 2.0 || Concerning Nexus 5X & 6P

Hi all.
There has been a lot of confusion on the Type-C port on the Nexus devices, all of the different USB specs, how it all relates to charging using USB Type-C devices, and what kind of data speeds you can get from Type-C devices. I did a fair bit of fact finding, and thought I'd consolidate everything I learned into one topic. For now, this is kind of a "living document" in that I am constantly updating the OP to consolidate knowledge. I'm not going to post everything you could ever know about USB specs here, but have provided the links! I am going to try to keep it focused on items as they relate to the new Nexus phones. As always, if you find this helpful, I'd appreciate the thanks.
I feel the state of USB-C cables and charging devices has been fleshed out well enough, and as such, I'm no longer updating this thread.
News:
Good news for consumers! Amazon bans non-compliant USB Type-C cables.
Resources:
https://plus.google.com/+BensonLeung
Reviewed cables: https://plus.google.com/collection/s0Inv
USB Type C Explained: https://plus.google.com/collection/0Vdov
USB Type C News: https://plus.google.com/collection/EKnov
http://www.usb.org/developers/docs/ (Official specifications.)
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015...clear-up-confusion-about-all-these-usb-specs/
http://www.cnet.com/news/usb-type-c-one-cable-to-connect-them-all/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_Type-C
ACTUAL TESTING: http://www.droid-life.com/2015/10/19/nexus-6p-nexus-5x-quick-charge/
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.gombosdev.ampere&hl=en
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=63614861&postcount=91
What rate will my Nexus charge at with other devices?
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When you connect your Nexus to a host, the devices must negotiate which charging rates can be used.
Type C hosts can negotiate with Type C devices using a specific wire in the cable known as the Configuration Channel - aka, the CC wire.
If you are using a Type-A adaptor or cable, the cable must identify itself as a Legacy USB connection (Type-C being converted to Type-A) using a pull-up resistor on the CC wire, grounded to the vBus wire. This is because the CC pin does not exist on Type-A ports. The Nexus will see the resistor, know it is on a legacy port, and it will then perform power negotiation using the USB BC2.1 protocol on the USB 2.0 wires in the cable. If the host is not BC2.1 capable, it will draw default USB current. (See page 149, table 4-12 for order of precedence.)
USB Type-C ports and chargers will provide 5V at 3A (15W) - true fast charging.
USB Type-A ports and chargers using USB BC2.1 should provide a max of 5V at 1.5A (7.5W).
Standard USB 3.0 can provide 5V @ 0.9A (4.5W)
USB 2.0 defaults to 5V @ 0.5A (2.5W).
What this means is that when your phone negotiates power with the host (your charger or computer), whatever current level they mutually agree upon is what your phone will attempt to draw. If you connect to a USB 2.0 port on your computer, a very old port which does not support the BC 2.1 protocol, then the most you'll be drawing is 0.5A. If you connect to a dedicated charging device which supports BC 2.1, it should draw up to 1.5A. Charging rates depend on this negotiation. Out of specification cables do not allow this negotiation to occur correctly. This may lead to faster charging, but you also risk exceeding the capabilities of your charger which may be dangerous.
As you can see, there is a big difference between 15 watts for Type-C fast charging and 2.5 watts for USB 2. Furthermore, please be aware that the phone will pull less current as the battery charges. A Nexus at 80% battery will pull less current than a Nexus at 20% battery.
In any regard, consider USB Type A to be the weak link in charging your Nexus.
Table 4-12:
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What charger and cable will work with my new Nexus, and will it support fast charging?
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My suggestion would be to make the move to Type-C car and wall chargers. You will eliminate the chance of using out of specification Type-A cables, and ensure you are always fast charging. Type-C will soon be the de facto interface for USB, so why not future proof yourself now.
If you have to use Type-A adaptors and cables, understand that there will be limitations and concerns to be aware of. Out of specification cables being the primary issue, which is explained below. Further, your charging rates will be half (or less) than what Type-C is capable of.
Table 2-1 shows all supported power specs for Type-C charging. Please understand that Type-A ports/cables will only support up to the BC 2.1 charging level of 1.5A. If it goes beyond this, your cable may not be compliant with USB specifications.
Hi. I'm an engineer at Google who has worked on USB Type-C on the Pixel and Nexus projects.
The reason that the Google chargers and cables are capable of 5V 3A support is because not only the cables but the port on the other end is certified for the higher 3A ceiling. You will notice that the cable that came with your Nexus 5X or 6P has USB Type C on both ends.
This ensures that not only the cable, but the connectors and the charging circuitry on the other side of the cable can support 3A before the phone starts to charge.
When you have a legacy cable like this one, the connector on the other side is a USB Type-A connector, which can be plugged into any USB port built since 1997, for example your ancient Pentium II PC may have a USB port that this cable could be plugged into.
NONE of those USB Type-A ports are rated to support 3A, so many of the USB Type-A to Type-C cables available on Amazon that claim they are rated at 3A and configure the identifier resistor to tell the phone to charge at 3A are not in compliance and could do damage to your charger, hub, or PC if you try to charge at 3A.
When you have a legacy cable like this, 2.4A, which is negotiated over a BC1.2 protocol like CDP or DCP, is appropriate over the Type-A connector. Any cable that you buy that claims 3A support I would be extremely wary of plugging into any of your hubs, PCs, or dedicated chargers.
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By the way, the maximum current of 1.5A is defined by the BC1.2 specification for CDP and DCP, but in practice, a range of other current values are possible using Apple's proprietary protocol or other protocols that bump up the defacto maximum current with a Type A connector on one end up to 2.4A, as long as the charger and the device both support that current limit.
However, keep in mind that there are 3 different termination possibilities. If you have the USB Type-C Specification 1.1, take a look at section 4.11.1, and at Table 4-13.
You'll notice that DFP Advertisement lists "Default USB Power" "1.5A @ 5V" and "3.0A @ 5V". It's important to read note 1. If you are making a legacy USB cable that has Type-C plug on one end, and a Type A plug on the other or a Type-B receptacle, you must use the "Default USB Power" termination, and NOT the "1.5A" one. Default USB power defers to BC 1.2 spec for current negotiation, so that such a cable that is attached to a basic 500mA SDP port should only draw 500mA, for example. Make sure to use a 56 kΩ pullup!
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As referenced in the quote, Table 4-13:
What about QuickCharge 2.0/3.0 chargers!? My Nexus has a Qualcomm chip, isn't it compatible?
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No. Google has stated that it is not implemented in the new Nexus devices.
QuickCharge works by increasing voltage and amperage to charge quickly. The USB Type-C standard only works this way in USB PD modes, otherwise voltage never varies from 5V. This means that QuickCharge 2.0/3.0 is completely different from USB Type-C charging methods.
But my 2.4A rated Type-A charger works, and my phone says it is Fast Charging. What's the deal?
___________________________________
Your Nexus may report as fast charging if the Type-A cable you use is not compliant with USB specs.
Threads on this forum have confirmed that the phone will pull 3A (or about 2990mA) from the stock charger. These results were verified using apps such as Ampere. When using 3rd party equipment (non-OEM cables and chargers), I would suggest using an application such as Ampere to ensure that you are not exceeding the maximum rating of the charger or cable. Doing so can be dangerous! It will also verify exactly how much current your phone is pulling to charge - information I've found helpful if for no other reason than to satisfy my own curiosity.
If you are unsure if your cable is compliant, you can test it using the methods found here: http://www.androidheadlines.com/201...usb-type-c-for-nexus-5x-6p-compatibility.html
So, how should you approach charging and connecting your Nexus to other devices?
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The same way you would any other device - plug it into the best thing you have available.
For connecting to computers, use the best port you have available. Type-C to Type-C > USB 3.x to Type-C > USB 2 to Type-C.
For chargers, try to match OEM specs: 5 volts at 3 amps output using a Type C connector.
If you have to use an adapter (Type-A to Type-C), Make sure you use compliant cables!
What data connection speeds will I get on my Nexus using Type-C?
___________________________________
If you want to dig deep into this, look at the "USB Type-C Specification Release 1.1.pdf" doc from USB.org, it defines on page 19 the types of plugs and cables for Type-C, including the USB 2.0 Type-C port. Starting at page 57 it defines all of the wires/pins for the different cables. Comparing table 3-10 to 3-11, you can see that all of the SDP (shielded differential pair) signal pins/wires are missing in the USB 2.0 Type-C connections. These are your high speed data connection wires. The Vbus, Vconn, cc, GND wires are all still present to support Type-C power delivery.
So, in other words, there are USB 2.0 Type-C ports, and USB 3.0 ports. For devices which don't require up to 100 watts of power, or won't use up to 10GB/s transfer speeds, the USB-C 2.0 port may commonly be used. The Nexus 5X & 6P fall into this category. What connection speeds are you going to get with the Nexus? USB 2.0 speeds.
Full Featured USB Type-C Cable:
USB 2.0 Type-C to Type-A cable:
If I left any glaring omissions from this, please follow up. I'd love to have all the info we can get.
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I wanted to put in this addition to the op. Thanks to @aaron_huber for putting this information up.
Aaron said:
A wire is a wire, but in this case the magic is in the charger, the device, AND THE CABLE. From the USB-C Wikipedia page:
Full-featured USB Type-C cables are active, electronically marked cables that contain a chip with an ID function based on the configuration data channel and vendor-defined messages (VDMs) from the USB Power Delivery 2.0 specification. USB Type-C devices also support power currents of 1.5 A and 3.0 A over the 5 V power bus in addition to baseline 900 mA; devices can either negotiate increased USB current through the configuration line, or they can support the full Power Delivery specification using both BMC-coded configuration line and legacy BFSK-coded VBUS line.
The 6P does not support the full PD spec per Google, but it does use the "configuration line" which is an extra wire in the USB-C cable hooked up to an extra pin in the phone/charger to talk to the charger and negotiate extra current. If you don't have a USB-C cable with the extra pins/wires plugged into a USB-C charger on the other end that also has the extra pins to do the negotiation, then the phone will fall back to a lower current because the spec requires it. If you plug it into a USB-A charger or use a USB-A to USB-C cable then all you get are four wires - the "configuration line" to do the negotiation doesn't exist.​
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* Type-C capabilities exceeds previous USB Type-A 3.1 / 2.0 specifications:
** 2 way power transfer
** Universal plug type (reversible plug)
** Much high transfer speeds (10GB/s)
** Much higher charging capabilities (Up to [email protected] = 100W via USB PD)
** Alternate data modes for devices (Display port / Audio)
Known Type-C capabilities for Nexus 5x & 6P:
+ USB 2.0 Data transfer speeds
+ Full fast charging through USB Type-C ports or specifically designed 5v/3a capable Type-C chargers only
- Not Qualcomm QuickCharge compatible (may draw more current for charging than a standard USB port though, see below)
- No HDMI out (It is not type-c alternate mode capable.)
- Not USB-PD capable
Thanks all!

Nice post!
Sent from my LG-V410 using Tapatalk

ylexot said:
Nice post!
Sent from my LG-V410 using Tapatalk
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Thank you!

Are 3.1 Type C cables backward compatible with 2.0 type C devices? I ask because if they are wouldn't it make sense for people to buy USB 3.1 Type C cables for future proofing vs 2.0?
I am in the market for a long cable and am confused as to which of the cables below to chose.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...able&qid=1444414379&ref_=sr_1_59&s=pc&sr=1-59
http://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters...ME5bDiL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160,160_

toyanucci said:
Are 3.1 Type C cables backward compatible with 2.0 type C devices? I ask because if they are wouldn't it make sense for people to buy USB 3.1 Type C cables for future proofing vs 2.0?
I am in the market for a long cable and am confused as to which of the cables below to chose.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...able&qid=1444414379&ref_=sr_1_59&s=pc&sr=1-59
http://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters...ME5bDiL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160,160_
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Click to collapse
USB type c is just the physical connector it has nothing to do with the usb 2.0 or 3.0 so you might as well by the fastest ones
What we do need to worry about is whether or not the cable itself supports charging at 3A 5v

Looking at the two, it appears that the Cable Matters product is a cable designed to connect a computer with Type-C port to a peripherals with USB 2.0 Type-C ports. (Like the Nexus 6p.) The maximum data speeds for this would be USB 2.0 speeds. Looks like a very nicely constructed cable - look at the connection ends, and polished metal. If all you were doing is connecting smart phones to your laptop, this is the type of product I would buy.
The J&D cable appears to be a full-feature type-c cable, and should support every supported type-c data rate. I'm not in love with the picture of the product though. Doesn't look quite as nice as the Cable Matters product. If you wanted to connect two devices with full 10GB/s connectivity, this would be the type of cable I would get.
It is my opinion that the two products are good examples of a well made USB 2.0 Type-C cable and a cheaply made full-feature Type-C cable. The full feature cables have to include more pins/wires, and are thus more expensive to produce.

Chilidog said:
USB type c is just the physical connector it has nothing to do with the usb 2.0 or 3.0 so you might as well by the fastest ones
What we do need to worry about is whether or not the cable itself supports charging at 3A 5v
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Technically incorrect, but essentially right.
Assuming both cables adhere to standards, the Cable Matters USB 2.0 Type-C cable is (most likely) missing the data pins & wires needed to transfer at the rated Type-C 10GB/s speeds; however, it should still have all of the power pins and wires to charge at 5V 3A. The J&D cable, presumably being a full-feature cable, should support full Type-C power (100W) and data (10GB/s) speeds, and will also charge a Nexus at 5V 3A.

Elnrik said:
Technically incorrect, but essentially right.
Assuming both cables adhere to standards, the Cable Matters USB 2.0 Type-C cable is (most likely) missing the data pins & wires needed to transfer at the rated Type-C 10GB/s speeds; however, it should still have all of the power pins and wires to charge at 5A 3A. The J&D cable, presumably being a full-feature cable, should support full Type-C power (100W) and data (10GB/s) speeds, and will also charge a Nexus at 5V 3A.
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So for just charging it would make sense to get the better constructed cable based on your observations?

At this point, it's more about the cable you use than the charger. Using a backwards 3.0/3.1 compatible C to A cable will get you the same speeds as a standard C to C cable in USB use. The chargers coming standard with the phone are C to charger, so Google seems to be indicating separate charging and USB use here. However, compatible untethered chargers are available in both the Google stores and elsewhere. Just make sure if you're not buying the Google charger, you get one with the right specs.

kibmikey1 said:
At this point, it's more about the cable you use than the charger. Using a backwards 3.0/3.1 compatible C to A cable will get you the same speeds as a standard C to C cable in USB use. The chargers coming standard with the phone are C to charger, so Google seems to be indicating separate charging and USB use here. However, compatible untethered chargers are available in both the Google stores and elsewhere. Just make sure if you're not buying the Google charger, you get one with the right specs.
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Yh, I;m still waiting for charging bricks with the correct specs but would just get the 6.6 ft cable from now.

Elnrik said:
Worst case would be it sends 12V at 3A (36W) to your phone and your Nexus dies in a exploding lithium maelstrom of fiery chaos.
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Leave it to Android to steal more features from the iPhone....

Elnrik said:
snip
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So, if I read your post correctly, (very good post btw), if I were to buy a charger for work, I should try to find a USB-c to USB-c cable (5V/3A), and a USB-c wall plug, because the USB-c standard is what gets you the 15W? Using a USB-c to USB-a cable, even if it was rated for 3A, would max out at 10W?
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

kibmikey1 said:
At this point, it's more about the cable you use than the charger.
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This is a bit misleading, and while I see what your point is, I urge caution using such general statements. A one amp charger with a Type-A port, a computer's USB 2 port, a USB 3.1 port, and a Type-C port connected to Type-C adaptors will all produce different charging rates for attached USB Type-C devices.

toyanucci said:
So for just charging it would make sense to get the better constructed cable based on your observations?
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I'm the type who thinks it's better to get the better constructed everything. So I'd look for a "USB 3.1" compatible C to C cable that was built well.

Elnrik said:
This is a bit misleading, and while I see what your point is, I urge caution using such general statements. A one amp charger with a Type-A port, a computer's USB 2 port, a USB 3.1 port, and a Type-C port connected to Type-C adaptors will all produce different charging rates for attached USB Type-C devices.
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True, but I was talking about USB transfer speeds, not USB charging speeds, since Google seems to be indicating separate charging and USB connectivity use with these phones, as evidenced by them including separate chargers and cables with them. Actually, only the 6P has both, the 5X only has the tethered charger.

heleos said:
So, if I read your post correctly, (very good post btw), if I were to buy a charger for work, I should try to find a USB-c to USB-c cable (5V/3A), and a USB-c wall plug, because the USB-c standard is what gets you the 15W? Using a USB-c to USB-a cable, even if it was rated for 3A, would max out at 10W?
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
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Yes, exactly.
Edit: According to what I've read, anyway. There might be something about 3.1 Type A ports that I'm not aware of which will allow 15W power. I know the 3.1 Type A port has extra pins. Just haven't been able to find in the 3.1 spec sheet a 100% absolutely for sure explanation either way. The Type-C specs pretty clearly spell out power states though, so I'm going to continue going by that. See attachment.
Second Edit: No, it would max out at 15 watts. The current I in amps (A) is equal to the power P in watts (W) divided by the voltage V in volts (V):
I = P / V.
3.0 Amps = 15 Watts / 5 Volts.

Or just buy a hard wired type-c charger like the one on the play store.
https://store.google.com/product/usb_c_charger
It won't power 100w, but I'm sure someone makes one that will.

Elnrik said:
Or just buy a hard wired type-c charger like the one on the play store.
https://store.google.com/product/usb_c_charger
It won't power 100w, but I'm sure someone makes one that will.
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It's currently sold out. They also have a 60W version with a 12' cable but it's $59.

Ouch that's a bit pricey!

heleos said:
So, if I read your post correctly, (very good post btw), if I were to buy a charger for work, I should try to find a USB-c to USB-c cable (5V/3A), and a USB-c wall plug, because the USB-c standard is what gets you the 15W? Using a USB-c to USB-a cable, even if it was rated for 3A, would max out at 10W?
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
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Why not just get the 15W charger Google sells?
---------- Post added at 09:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:47 PM ----------
seezar said:
It's currently sold out. They also have a 60W version with a 12' cable but it's $59.
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Ooh man.. Good thing I loaded two of them into my pre-order. Almost everything I pre-ordered is sold out.

Which of these USB Type C to A cables support fast charging? (Shopping on Amazon)

Which one of these cables support fast charging for the 6P?
I do not want to get new adapters so hopefully one of these cables are good enough
Thanks
1 - http://www.amazon.com/Yoozon®-Hi-sp...45399787&sr=8-3&keywords=usb+type+c+to+type+a
2 - http://www.amazon.com/Multi-Colour-...45399787&sr=8-4&keywords=usb+type+c+to+type+a
3 - http://www.amazon.com/iOrange-E-Bra...45399787&sr=8-7&keywords=usb+type+c+to+type+a
This one mentions this, Support the Maximum 2.4A fast charging and the speed of data sync up to 480 Mbps however I thought it needs to be 3A to support fast charging, if someone could please clarify, thanks
4 - http://www.amazon.com/NewLobo-1-met...45399787&sr=8-6&keywords=usb+type+c+to+type+a
5 - http://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters...45399787&sr=8-8&keywords=usb+type+c+to+type+a
6 - http://www.amazon.com/JOTO-Standard...5399787&sr=8-11&keywords=usb+type+c+to+type+a

None of them will. You might get close to 2 amps if you are lucky, but no Type-A port will support Type-C fast charging. While cable quality matters, its more dependant on the load the phone can draw from the charger.
See: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=63220997&postcount=1

Continuing off what Elnrik said, you can still go ahead and buy yourself some generic quality USB A to USB C cables (see one plus cables for quality and value). You'll get pretty standard old charge rates through them but they are better than nothing in a pinch, for the time being, unless you want to replace all your old adapters.

I know you said Amazon, but Google sells an a to c cable capable of 5v/3a
https://store.google.com/product/usb_type_c_to_usb_standard_a_plug_cable
Currently out of stock though
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

I am trying to find one as well that will do 3A/5W. So far I have found this one that according to the description will do it.
http://www.amazon.com/Rankie®-Hi-sp...29503&sr=1-1-spons&keywords=usb-c+cable&psc=1

heleos said:
I know you said Amazon, but Google sells an a to c cable capable of 5v/3a
https://store.google.com/product/usb_type_c_to_usb_standard_a_plug_cable
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really don't know what Google are playing at with the spec for that cable. There's no way in the world a USB Type-A 2.0 cable can deliver 3A. You absolutely need Type-C end to end to achieve that.
If I'm wrong, I'm gonna look like a right chump. But I haven't been ravenously soaking up info on this topic for nothing!

krazyq said:
Which one of these cables support fast charging for the 6P?
I do not want to get new adapters so hopefully one of these cables are good enough
Thanks
1 - http://www.amazon.com/Yoozon®-Hi-sp...45399787&sr=8-3&keywords=usb+type+c+to+type+a
2 - http://www.amazon.com/Multi-Colour-...45399787&sr=8-4&keywords=usb+type+c+to+type+a
3 - http://www.amazon.com/iOrange-E-Bra...45399787&sr=8-7&keywords=usb+type+c+to+type+a
This one mentions this, Support the Maximum 2.4A fast charging and the speed of data sync up to 480 Mbps however I thought it needs to be 3A to support fast charging, if someone could please clarify, thanks
4 - http://www.amazon.com/NewLobo-1-met...45399787&sr=8-6&keywords=usb+type+c+to+type+a
5 - http://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters...45399787&sr=8-8&keywords=usb+type+c+to+type+a
6 - http://www.amazon.com/JOTO-Standard...5399787&sr=8-11&keywords=usb+type+c+to+type+a
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With the Nexus 6P, none of them. It is not the cable, but the 6P that is the culprit. All those cables will actually support 5V/3A. For some bizarre reason, Google designed the charging system in the 6P around the Type C spec (the spec for a connector) and not around the USB Power Delivery Spec, but then used the configuration channel in USB Type C which eliminates the possibility of using Type A to Type C for putting 5V/3A into the 6P. Even Apple respects USB Power Delivery in the MacBook Pro.
I think Google's mistake (or at least foolish decision) will become apparent next year when the next Nexus phones (and a lot of other laptops, tablets and phones) have Type C, but not 5V/3A and instead support more standard power like 5V/2A and 12V/1.5A. There is a reason Qualcom chose those 2 combinations for Quick Charge 2.0. They didn't pull them out of their butt like Google.
To me, not having the device in my hands, is the biggest single disappointment with the phone. Don't get me wrong, even 5V/1.5A is decent power for charging a phone. Guess the other disappointment also centers around the implementation of Type C and not allowing HDMI via the Type C connector which it was expressly designed to do.

dwswager said:
With the Nexus 6P, none of them. It is not the cable, but the 6P that is the culprit. All those cables will actually support 5V/3A. For some bizarre reason, Google designed the charging system in the 6P around the Type C spec (the spec for a connector) and not around the USB Power Delivery Spec, but then used the configuration channel in USB Type C which eliminates the possibility of using Type A to Type C for putting 5V/3A into the 6P. Even Apple respects USB Power Delivery in the MacBook Pro.
I think Google's mistake (or at least foolish decision) will become apparent next year when the next Nexus phones (and a lot of other laptops, tablets and phones) have Type C, but not 5V/3A and instead support more standard power like 5V/2A and 12V/1.5A. There is a reason Qualcom chose those 2 combinations for Quick Charge 2.0. They didn't pull them out of their butt like Google.
To me, not having the device in my hands, is the biggest single disappointment with the phone. Don't get me wrong, even 5V/1.5A is decent power for charging a phone. Guess the other disappointment also centers around the implementation of Type C and not allowing HDMI via the Type C connector which it was expressly designed to do.
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Wow super lame...
So I'm going to have to buy new type adapters
(wall and car charger) and new type c to c cables?
I have the Moto X Pure right and the only reason I'm getting the 6P is cos of the battery and camera which I'm hoping to be better.

Snarklife said:
I really don't know what Google are playing at with the spec for that cable. There's no way in the world a USB Type-A 2.0 cable can deliver 3A. You absolutely need Type-C end to end to achieve that.
If I'm wrong, I'm gonna look like a right chump. But I haven't been ravenously soaking up info on this topic for nothing!
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Click to collapse
I would tend to agree with you, and the other people that have researched the actual USB spec, but I feel like it's this was an error, they would realize it quickly and change it. The hire some smaht people at Google
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Snarklife said:
I really don't know what Google are playing at with the spec for that cable. There's no way in the world a USB Type-A 2.0 cable can deliver 3A. You absolutely need Type-C end to end to achieve that.
If I'm wrong, I'm gonna look like a right chump. But I haven't been ravenously soaking up info on this topic for nothing!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't confuse the cable's capability to handle 3A with what the SPEC allows. A Type A to Type C cable can actually handle 3A. Both connectors can do it. Even a Micro B can do 3A. The Spec does not support it. And here is the big issue. The spec, both original and the newer ones including USB-PD are set up for simultaneous power and data. For a charger, we are only worried with power and data speed/corruption is not an issue.
USB PD allows 60W (20V/3A) through micro B and100W (20V/5A) through standard A and B. It requires specially 'marked' cables which will be a little beefier than standard 2.0 cables. But the connectors can handle it.

So what is the solution?
Get new car and wall chargers only usb type c cables?

Okay, this is interesting. So, if the cable and both the A and C connectors can both handle 5/3, could you plug this cable into a block that pushes out 5/3 via a female A port and achieve maximum charge velocity?
That goes against what so many have said - that you need C to C - but I'd be delighted to hear it.

EDIT: Just saw @dwswager's post. What he said.
-------
TLDR:
USB TYPE-A has standards not specs, limitations are grounded in physics not words and it is possible for a USB type A to deliver 3A with lower Ohms at 5v with the right power adapter/hub.
USB 2.0 refers to Data rates not charge rates.
Bonus: 3A 5V is one of the Quick Charge Class A power standards for C to C even if 6P isnt yet certified for it. Could be Google pushing for an A to C 3A to 5V Quick Charge USB Class?
Snarklife said:
I really don't know what Google are playing at with the spec for that cable. There's no way in the world a USB Type-A 2.0 cable can deliver 3A. You absolutely need Type-C end to end to achieve that.
If I'm wrong, I'm gonna look like a right chump. But I haven't been ravenously soaking up info on this topic for nothing!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
heleos said:
I would tend to agree with you, and the other people that have researched the actual USB spec, but I feel like it's this was an error, they would realize it quickly and change it. The hire some smaht people at Google
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the conversation over USB "specs" has been misconstrued. What people are looking at are USB standards. Standards are not limits. They are heavily optimized guidelines for creating compatibility and uniformity with as many devices as possible and to protect as many devices as possible from accidental burnout.
USB 2.0 Data rate does not prevent a USB A port from having a 3.1 or similar charging configuration.
As is already clear, Google is not following USB charging standards of any kind with the 6P and noted by @dwswager.
It is entirely possibly to throw 3a INTO a USB A standard cable; ampere limitation isnt the problem USB 3.1 standards for USB A do it perfectly fine but at 3a 12v(4ohm), which is a higher ohm set up than with 3a 5v(1.67ohm). We also know that USB 3.1 standards allow for 2a 5v (2.5ohm), which is even closer to the 3a 5v set up. .The standards are set at those points because the lower the ohms the great the heat created, think of it like a welder, or a sub-ohm vaporizer.
Note that the size of the USB 3.1 pin size don't change due to the change in ohms. What is likely changing is the conducting material and size of the transmission wire.
Most 2a 5v cables run cool because the cable is a 2.5ohm resistance cable and its getting fed precisely 2a, as very carefully designed, which then makes that cable a "5v" (2.5ohm x 2a) cable. A 3a 5v cable would hence need to have a lower resistance of 1.67ohm, which is higher conduction, likely from a more optimized conduit throughout.
The cable can exist under Huawei/ Google's unique of standard setup.
Thing is, nobody as part of the USB standards have ever said you CANNOT put 3a through a USB Type A, but also nobody outside of chinese ebay sales sell anything with USB A that puts out 3a at 5v right now (Google for it, they exist. Wouldn't recommend buying one).
Bonus from Google CS (Source: http://www.droid-life.com/2015/10/19/nexus-6p-nexus-5x-quick-charge/#comment-2315607310):
"Currently, the Nexus 6P isn't listed on Qualcomm's list of devices
that have been tested and certified to be compatible with Qualcomm Quick Charge
2.0 chargers, so I can't say with 100% certainty yet. This is something that can
change the longer the Nexus 6P is out on the market and is tested for
compatibility and interoperability."
---------- Post added at 03:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:42 PM ----------
Snarklife said:
Okay, this is interesting. So, if the cable and both the A and C connectors can both handle 5/3, could you plug this cable into a block that pushes out 5/3 via a female A port and achieve maximum charge velocity?
That goes against what so many have said - that you need C to C - but I'd be delighted to hear it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Turns out electrical engineering and understanding takes more than misconstruing USB standards as specs.

theTqM said:
Turns out electrical engineering and understanding takes more than misconstruing USB standards as specs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have been fighting this corner since the day of the announcement, I am glad to hear someone else say it. There is absolutely nothing about USB Type-C that has any effect on wall chargers and the amount of current it can draw, and equally nothing stopping Type-A from providing aforementioned current / voltage. What it needs its a cable that can handle it (like the offical Google one), and a wall charger that will provide it, simple as that.

vido.ardes said:
I have been fighting this corner since the day of the announcement, I am glad to hear someone else say it. There is absolutely nothing about USB Type-C that has any effect on wall chargers and the amount of current it can draw, and equally nothing stopping Type-A from providing aforementioned current / voltage. What it needs its a cable that can handle it (like the offical Google one), and a wall charger that will provide it, simple as that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank God! Realism
If under USB-PD Profile 5, Type A can handle 20V/5A, why people think it can't handle 5V/3A is a mystery. The question has been will the phone accept it with an undetectable (to the Type C device) Type A to Type C cable by the 6P. The answer appears to be yes it can.

dwswager said:
Thank God! Realism
If under USB-PD Profile 5, Type A can handle 20V/5A, why people think it can't handle 5V/3A is a mystery. The question has been will the phone accept it with an undetectable (to the Type C device) Type A to Type C cable by the 6P. The answer appears to be yes it can.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've bought the cable I linked to from Google (it has already turned up) and I have bought a car charger that claims to output 3A/5V so I will be testing as soon as my device turns up. The car charger wasn't cheap, but it has been rebranded a lot so it's 50/50 as to whether or not it will hold up to it's claim. It has a type-C port as well so I can at least check they output the same.

@vido.ardes @dwswager. If what I quoted earlier from G CS is correct and the Nexus 6P hopefully-perhaps-maybe gets certified by Qualcomm for Quick Charge, and google updates the kernel to enable it then we'll have the entire world of Qualcomm certified 3A Quick Chargers at our disposal. Its a hope.

theTqM said:
@vido.ardes @dwswager. If what I quoted earlier from G CS is correct and the Nexus 6P hopefully-perhaps-maybe gets certified by Qualcomm for Quick Charge, and google updates the kernel to enable it then we'll have the entire world of Qualcomm certified 3A Quick Chargers at our disposal. Its a hope.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure how it would get certified. QC 2.0 takes an extra chip in the device and the 810 SOC is not QC3.0 certified.

dwswager said:
Not sure how it would get certified. QC 2.0 takes an extra chip in the device and the 810 SOC is not QC3.0 certified.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're right regarding QC 3.0.. however:
Check out the 5x teardown.. it has a QC 2.0 quick charge chip: http://9to5google.com/2015/10/22/nexus-5x-teardown-repairability/
Chances that the 6P has the same.. high...

theTqM said:
You're right regarding QC 3.0.. however:
Check out the 5x teardown.. it has a QC 2.0 quick charge chip: http://9to5google.com/2015/10/22/nexus-5x-teardown-repairability/
Chances that the 6P has the same.. high...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's interesting!
All this charging crap could have been avoided if Google would have just spent 30 seconds explaining it. I suspect that they used Type C and designed the circuit to take 3A and wanted to call that fast charging without having to actually implement a fast charging solution.
If I had the 6P in my hands I would get a few chargers:
Google Captive (5V/3A)
A Type C 5V/3A
A Type A 5V/3A (or the ASUS Transformer charger with micro B and a micro B to C adapter.
A 5V/1A charger.
Then with phone less than 10% charged plug them in and check the current draw. All of them should be somewhere close to the Nominal rated current output.
Then with the phone above 90% charged, plug them up again and they all should be drawing about the same current because the current draw should be well below the rated current of all the chargers.

Any way for USB-C charger and CC cable to get approved?

I'm looking for a USB-C plug for my Nexus 6P. There are so few on the market and I would like to try one.
http://www.amazon.com/Charging-Qualcomm-Certified-Supported-included/dp/B017I7EX46/
Anybody tried this charger and cc cable? Reviews say it works pretty well, but is there any tool like CheckR to test and approve the usb-c plug and cable? This might be important to note, due to the whole fiasco with the cables which would damage the phone/charger due to incorrect build. Benson Leung only tests AC cables as far as I know.

While there is the potential for a USB C charger and cable to not be powerful enough to meet the 3amp charging spec, a type C to C cable is unlikely to fail to be compliant in the same way as the A to C cables are.
The A to C cables were mostly non compliant as they were being identified as being compatible with the USB C spec and thus being able to supply 3amps of power, whereas in reality cables/chargers with type A connectors max out at 2.4 amps or in most cases a lot less.

A-C cables required a 56K resistor, but most companies initially used a 10K one which was the issue. C-C cables don't need a resistor the way that the A-C ones do,so they should all be compliant from what I understand.

Azarin said:
While there is the potential for a USB C charger and cable to not be powerful enough to meet the 3amp charging spec, a type C to C cable is unlikely to fail to be compliant in the same way as the A to C cables are.
The A to C cables were mostly non compliant as they were being identified as being compatible with the USB C spec and thus being able to supply 3amps of power, whereas in reality cables/chargers with type A connectors max out at 2.4 amps or in most cases a lot less.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have been looking at the end chotech charger on amazon for 2 days now trying to figure out if it's OK or not since it's not on the Benson list of approved chargers.
Are you saying that if you get a charger like the one in the original posters link that has a USB c port you'll be fine because there is no USB A cable in the equation?
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

jimmiekain said:
I have been looking at the end chotech charger on amazon for 2 days now trying to figure out if it's OK or not since it's not on the Benson list of approved chargers.
Are you saying that if you get a charger like the one in the original posters link that has a USB c port you'll be fine because there is no USB A cable in the equation?
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It should be fine as long as it only supports 5V/3(like the Choetech does) and not a different quick charging method like QC 2.0/3.0.

Pilz said:
It should be fine as long as it only supports 5V/3(like the Choetech does) and not a different quick charging method like QC 2.0/3.0.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds great I'm ordering it right now.
One more question, I found a C 2 C cable and it's 3Meters long. Does the length of the cable matter?
Here's the one I'm looking at https://goo.gl/photos/jEYvVABFZFPy2B2g9
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Pilz said:
It should be fine as long as it only supports 5V/3(like the Choetech does) and not a different quick charging method like QC 2.0/3.0.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even if it supports Qualcomm's QuickCharge, isn't part of the QC spec that there's a chip inside the charger to identify QC-capable devices and otherwise act as a 'normal' charger?
I would think so long as it supports 5V/3A you would be fine no matter what other standard it supports.

Here's a link to a google doc that details cables and charges that have been tested. It says if the item is compliant or not.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wJwqv3rTNmORXz-XJsQaXK1dl8I91V4-eP_sfNVNzbA/edit#gid=0

jimmiekain said:
Sounds great I'm ordering it right now.
One more question, I found a C 2 C cable and it's 3Meters long. Does the length of the cable matter?
Here's the one I'm looking at https://goo.gl/photos/jEYvVABFZFPy2B2g9
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see an issue, but keep in mine that longer cables could have a current drop due to increased resistance over the length. It shouldn't be a huge amount so I wouldn't worry about it. I use the Google 6ft C-C cable and get the full 3A when my battery is below 40%.
jhoff80 said:
Even if it supports Qualcomm's QuickCharge, isn't part of the QC spec that there's a chip inside the charger to identify QC-capable devices and otherwise act as a 'normal' charger?
I would think so long as it supports 5V/3A you would be fine no matter what other standard it supports.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's correct, but I don't want to fully recommend something that could cause an issue. I have a charger with QC 3.0 over the Type-C port and I have 0 issues using it. It still violates the USB standard to have QC 2.0/3.0 over a Type-C port, but that doesn't mean it won't work. It works, but could potentially cause an issue at some point. I can link you the post by Benson Leung along with the appropriate USB standard if you need it.

Pilz said:
That's correct, but I don't want to fully recommend something that could cause an issue. I have a charger with QC 3.0 over the Type-C port and I have 0 issues using it. It still violates the USB standard to have QC 2.0/3.0 over a Type-C port, but that doesn't mean it won't work. It works, but could potentially cause an issue at some point. I can link you the post by Benson Leung along with the appropriate USB standard if you need it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By any chance have you tested this one?
USB Type C Wall Charger, Tronsmart 33W Dual USB Turbo Wall Charger with Quick Charge 3.0 Technology for Nexus 6P, Nexus 5X (5V/3A)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B019C23ZGW
Still waiting to receive mine. Obviously it's not up to spec because of the type-c + QC 3.0 standard on the same port but hopefully it works fine. And I also really want that extra type A port and foldable pins. I'm also thinking of getting a Robin when it comes out which uses type-C but with QC 2.0.

rndll said:
By any chance have you tested this one?
USB Type C Wall Charger, Tronsmart 33W Dual USB Turbo Wall Charger with Quick Charge 3.0 Technology for Nexus 6P, Nexus 5X (5V/3A)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B019C23ZGW
Still waiting to receive mine. Obviously it's not up to spec because of the type-c + QC 3.0 standard on the same port but hopefully it works fine. And I also really want that extra type A port and foldable pins. I'm also thinking of getting a Robin when it comes out which uses type-C but with QC 2.0.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't tested that charger, but I do have the exact same model with 2 Type-A ports instead of 1 A and 1 C. Maybe Tronsmart will send me one to test out You can see a review of the version I have in my signature (last link that's says Tronsmart Titan). I have their car charger which also has the same voltages over the Type-C port and it charges my 6P just fine even though its technically not in spec.

Pilz said:
I haven't tested that charger, but I do have the exact same model with 2 Type-A ports instead of 1 A and 1 C. Maybe Tronsmart will send me one to test out You can see a review of the version I have in my signature (last link that's says Tronsmart Titan). I have their car charger which also has the same voltages over the Type-C port and it charges my 6P just fine even though its technically not in spec.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah saw that when you first posted it. I've had other Tronsmart chargers and cables before. I also bought the Titan when it first came out too and they haven't failed or anything yet. I'm just a little cautious since type-C is new. Hopefully Tronsmart sends you the wall charger to test. I won't get mine for a few weeks due to international shipping and everything.

I've got the Choetech C to C charger and cable. Would recommend it without any hesitation. Build quality is on par with the stock charger, but nothing more. It's not braided or anything, so it's a normal cable with a normal charger
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

rndll said:
Yeah saw that when you first posted it. I've had other Tronsmart chargers and cables before. I also bought the Titan when it first came out too and they haven't failed or anything yet. I'm just a little cautious since type-C is new. Hopefully Tronsmart sends you the wall charger to test. I won't get mine for a few weeks due to international shipping and everything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess we will see what happens. The Titan is a beast, but I can't use the full potential is has with 2 phones. The wall charger should work fine if it's anything like their car charger.

My Pixel XL experience with multiple chargers so far

I was a Note 7 refugee so I have the stock Samsung fast AC charger here. Model EP-TA20JWE rated at 9v @ 1.67A and 5v @ 2A. It's in my kitchen.
I have the original AC charger that came with the Pixel XL. Model TC G1000-US rated at 9v @ 2.0A and 5v @ 0.5A I have only used once to get this information.
I also have a mobile charger in my car. It is labeled as Qualcomm QC 3.0 certified which is why I bought it as the Note 7 was a QC 3.0 device. It is a Choetech Model C0051 rated at 9.1v~12v @ 1.5A Max, 5.6v~9v @ 2A Max, and 3.6v~5.5v @ 2.4A Max (the iFixit teardown has revealed a Qualcomm QC 3.0 IC in the Pixel)
Additionally I have a charger by the bed which is from my Nexus 6, Motorola "Turbo Charger" Model SSW-2680US rated at 5v @ 1.6A, 9v @ 1.6A, and 12v @ 1.2A.
All of the chargers are using their original CABLE (USBA to USBC except in the case of the Pixel which is USBC to USBC) included EXCEPT the Motorola Turbo Charger, which is using a 6 foot long braided USBA to Micro USB cable with the Micro USB to USBC adapter that came with the Note 7.
What I found so far was all three work well and all three are recognized by the phone as a rapid charger.
I also found that at 60% charge and plugging in each one long enough for the lock screen to give me the "rapid charging XX minutes until full" message, the Samsung EP-TA20JWE fast charger charges it faster than the Google TC G1000US or the Choetech C0051. The Google and Choetech appear to charge at the same rate based on time until full. The Motorola Turbo Charger charges at an extremely fast rate, like it took it from 58% to 77% in maybe 5-10 minutes and was saying 15 minutes to full at 77%.
My battery life is phenomenal for me at 5-6 hours SOT, I have no issues with any of these chargers, they all see charging time every day. Turbo charger overnight, Samsung Note 7 charger when in the kitchen where I am a lot, mobile charger when driving to work or classes... (except the actual Pixel charger which I haven't found a use for yet but will probably go to work with me.
*Based on my findings I am going to put the Samsung Note 7 charger in the kitchen and the slowest Pixel charger in the bedroom and take the fastest Turbo charger to work.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

I know my test method isn't to some people's satisfaction but the time to full calculation is based on how much the phone is charged now (which I kept within +/- 2% for each check) and how much current the device wants to draw from what's available. What's interesting is the device draws power much quicker than the Pixel charger supplies it when it is plugged into more capable chargers.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Good information. It's nice to knows that all the accessories I got for my note won't go to waste lol.
Thank you.
Sent from my SM-G935V using XDA-Developers mobile app

I have been having varying experiences.
My Anker QC 3.0 type C wall charger seems to charge rapidly, although at the 5V/3A only, with a 6.6ft USB 2.0 i-orange cable. Using a 3.3ft USB 3.0 cable, it shows charging rapidly when I first plug it in, but a few minutes later only shows charging.. but seems to be charging rapidly? My Tronsmart type C w/ QC 3.0 car charger, using an Anker Powerline+ type C cable, shows charging rapidly, but said it had 1+ hour until full when at 70%... Ampere only showed 1.6A being sent to the phone too. I tried an iVoler charger with type C and QC 3.0 and got up to 2050mAh, but it was likely only 5V (which I would expect) but still didn't seem to be charging all that fast.
I think this whole USB-PD thing is going to really be dependent on proper chargers and cables. All of these chargers/cables worked perfect on my Nexus 6P - doesn't seem to be the case on the Pixel.

Thanks for the experience folks. I had purchased a qc 3.0 tronsmart on sale at amazon which I was going to return. I got usb c cables with pd from monoprice. I suppose even if it doesn't fast charge at 18w (9v X 2a), I'd be ok with 15 w charging if I don't have to go out and buy a new car charger.

I mean faster is nice but if it still charges at a good rate, the lower current might help the battery last longer too right?

testinguser said:
Thanks for the experience folks. I had purchased a qc 3.0 tronsmart on sale at amazon which I was going to return. I got usb c cables with pd from monoprice. I suppose even if it doesn't fast charge at 18w (9v X 2a), I'd be ok with 15 w charging if I don't have to go out and buy a new car charger.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have bad news for you. I have a Tronsmart QC 3.0 type C charger too - one from a year ago though, don't know if the design has changed - and it is NOT rapid charging my device. It worked perfect on my Nexus 6P. It will start out by saying "charging rapidly" on the Pixel XL, but after several minutes, goes down to "charging" and the charge time is 2+ hours, Ampere shows really low current, etc. It COULD be the Anker Powerline+ type C cable I am using... but I highly doubt it. I think the fact that the type C port has QC 3.0 is not playing nice with the USB-PD chip, and causing it to drop support for 5V/3A all together. I will test this more tonight with the stock cable and see if it works any better.

Did some testing: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=69309771&postcount=30

Man I totally forgot about my Motorola Turbo chargers I got from Groupon. I wish I could find my @zerolemon charger too.. Ill test them with my USB USB Doctor dongles.. When I find them... lol
psa; cables make a huge difference in my experience.
I also have a tronsmart qc2 1 + 3 fast port car charger Ill test and post results.

Perhaps not the right thread but I have just been sent these USB-C cables to review for free.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B01EEACOVO/ref=ya_aw_od_pi?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Amazon says they are rated to 2.4A but will they damage by Pixel XL? I'm not expecting them to charge 'rapidly' but would be handy to be able to use them with an older 2A charger.
Do you think they are safe?

--

Why do so many people try to get a charger with as high a wattage rating as possible but ignore the fact that USB-C is limited to 3A and all you need to do is find a charger capable of delivering 3A.
What does wattage have to do with things?
Not trying to be a jerk, I'm just assuming I must be missing something here.

CZ Eddie said:
Why do so many people try to get a charger with as high a wattage rating as possible but ignore the fact that USB-C is limited to 3A and all you need to do is find a charger capable of delivering 3A.
What does wattage have to do with things?
Not trying to be a jerk, I'm just assuming I must be missing something here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because more watts = more power. USB-C may be limited to 3A, but it is not limited to 5V. Higher volts at the same amperage = more wattage = more power. If you want the fastest charging possible, you need a 9V/2A+ USB-PD charger.

Nitemare3219 said:
it is not limited to 5V.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't realize it was OK to go with higher than 5v now.
Do you know if it's okay to hard wire directly into a 12V system for charging? Like in the car? I'm guessing "no it's not okay" but I'm still learning about USB-C.
---------- Post added at 09:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:25 AM ----------
tap = hard wire/splice into. As in, no adapter. Just a USB-C at one end and then snip the connector off the other end and use the two power wires and two ground wires to splice directly into say, the back of a cigarette charger's 12V wiring.

CZ Eddie said:
I didn't realize it was OK to go with higher than 5v now.
Do you know if it's okay to hard wire directly into a 12V system for charging? Like in the car? I'm guessing "no it's not okay" but I'm still learning about USB-C.
---------- Post added at 09:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:25 AM ----------
tap = hard wire/splice into. As in, no adapter. Just a USB-C at one end and then snip the connector off the other end and use the two power wires and two ground wires to splice directly into say, the back of a cigarette charger's 12V wiring.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no way that would work, nor would it be safe. There HAS to be an adapter to safely charge the phone by regulating voltage and current, as well as shutting off the charge once it hits 100%.

Nitemare3219 said:
There is no way that would work, nor would it be safe. There HAS to be an adapter to safely charge the phone by regulating voltage and current, as well as shutting off the charge once it hits 100%.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's my understanding that some/all of the regulating is done on-board some phones.
I know I never had any issues with my 3A 12v to 5v converter hard wired to S4 and Note 3 phones for charging in either my car or Motorcycle.
At least, I didn't notice any issues.

CZ Eddie said:
It's my understanding that some/all of the regulating is done on-board some phones.
I know I never had any issues with my 3A 12v to 5v converter hard wired to S4 and Note 3 phones for charging in either my car or Motorcycle.
At least, I didn't notice any issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well you're a brave soul. I wouldn't ever think to try something like that. Especially not with USB-C & Power Delivery now. The phone is responsible for some of the charging regulation, but the charger itself is just as important.

CZ Eddie said:
Why do so many people try to get a charger with as high a wattage rating as possible but ignore the fact that USB-C is limited to 3A and all you need to do is find a charger capable of delivering 3A.
What does wattage have to do with things?
Not trying to be a jerk, I'm just assuming I must be missing something here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because with USB PD the Pixel can charge at 18W by using 2A by 9V. So just looking for a 3A charger doesn't give you the fastest possible charging for the Pixel. Using a standard 3A charger will charge it at 3A by 5V for 15W. You multiply the voltage and amperage to determine wattage.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

I have an aukey car charger and my pixel phone rapid charges when I use the QC 3.0 port, but not the USB c port.

Anyone try the other Motorola turbo chargers 15, 25, 30? Id be curious to know if they work any better. They say the phone must support "turbo"..
---------- Post added at 03:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:08 PM ----------
CZ Eddie said:
I didn't realize it was OK to go with higher than 5v now.
Do you know if it's okay to hard wire directly into a 12V system for charging? Like in the car? I'm guessing "no it's not okay" but I'm still learning about USB-C.
---------- Post added at 09:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:25 AM ----------
tap = hard wire/splice into. As in, no adapter. Just a USB-C at one end and then snip the connector off the other end and use the two power wires and two ground wires to splice directly into say, the back of a cigarette charger's 12V wiring.
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No definitely not. Car Battery supplies too much wattage/amerpage and its missing the PD ic and other protections in most good charger (over volt, under volt, circuit protection, trickle, power cut off, ect). Thats why all this talk about chargers and cables that do not meet requirements burning equipment/phones up.
It will never know when to stop charging or if over charging and catch fire...
Thats why its not advisable to buy cheap no name unbranded batteries, cables and chargers.
Usb c isnt just a connector/ plug theres an ic (computer chip) in control as well on both sides.
The chip in your battery talks w the one in the phone that talks w the one in the charger..

Car Turbo Charger

Does anybody know of a car charger that does turbo charge the Moto Z? Apparently Motorola/Lenovo doesn't offer one and a third party QuickCharge 3.0 I tried failed...
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I got this one :Nekteck 5.4A USB-C Car Charger from Amazon for 15$ and it does turbo charge my phone .

I don't believe that the Z Force is set up for Qualcomm Quick Charge. And while it doesn't Turbo charge, I use the Verizon brand rapid USB-C car charger. I've also read that we have to be careful with what charging cables we use with our Z Force phones.
Sent from my Moto Z Force Droid using Tapatalk.

zaki67 said:
I got this one :Nekteck 5.4A USB-C Car Charger from Amazon for 15$ and it does turbo charge my phone .
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Thank you, I will try that one then ?.
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karlmf said:
I don't believe that the Z Force is set up for Qualcomm Quick Charge. And while it doesn't Turbo charge, I use the Verizon brand rapid USB-C car charger. I've also read that we have to be careful with what charging cables we use with our Z Force phones.
Sent from my Moto Z Force Droid using Tapatalk.
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At least Motorola claims it supports QuickCharge if I'm not mistaken. Apparently, though, it also has additional requirements for turbo charging to kick in... I looked at the Verizon charger, too, but a) there's not much info on its website, b) calling Verizon didn't help - they don't have a clue, and c) there is some comment / review saying that it "burned out" some user's battery (which is of course unconfirmed to be related to this charger, may have been something else).
Anyways, given the utter lack of info and the suspicion of harming the battery, I stayed away from it... not to mention the ridiculous $40 price tag.
On an other note, though, Verizon has the original Motorola TurboCharger (wall charger) at a 50% discount.
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pb1379 said:
At least Motorola claims it supports QuickCharge if I'm not mistaken. Apparently, though, it also has additional requirements for turbo charging to kick in... I looked at the Verizon charger, too, but a) there's not much info on its website, b) calling Verizon didn't help - they don't have a clue, and c) there is some comment / review saying that it "burned out" some user's battery (which is of course unconfirmed to be related to this charger, may have been something else).
Anyways, given the utter lack of info and the suspicion of harming the battery, I stayed away from it... not to mention the ridiculous $40 price tag.
On an other note, though, Verizon has the original Motorola TurboCharger (wall charger) at a 50% discount.
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No USB-C device can support Quick Charge - it violates the USB-C spec. Any quality USB-C charger that is higher amp will TurboCharge a phone. Moto screwed up by using TurboCharging name with both QuickCharge and USB-C - they are different.

The Moto Z is absurdly picky when it comes to quick charge specs.
I have a Blitzwolf QC2.0 with a type C and a Type A connector in my wifes car, and it will ONLY enter quick charge if I use the Type C to Type C cable I bought from Blitzwolf.
It will not turbo charge if I use a high end Type A to Type C cable, but my wifes LG G5 will do so happily.
I also bought a QC3 compatible charger, with the cable integrated like the original charger, and this works too, and is faster than the QC2 charger.
Both are definitely charging at more than 10 watts, the maximum for 5V 2A mode chargers.
And in fact, using a Non-QC 5V 3A charger, caused my cable to melt, and start to glow.
Incredibly my phone charging port survived.
Blitzwolf may very well be the only brand that works fully, as I just bought a Chuwi QC3 power bank, and it will refuse to quick charge my phone.
But works on some others.
And on another note, I used the Type C to Type C in a modern laptop a while back, and when I plugged it in, my phone displayed the message about receiving quick charge.
If I'm not mistaken, the Type C spec allows quick charging, but only if you use C to C, with the extra pins it's able to keep better track of the charging process I guess.

Shadowdancer123 said:
The Moto Z is absurdly picky when it comes to quick charge specs.
...
And on another note, I used the Type C to Type C in a modern laptop a while back, and when I plugged it in, my phone displayed the message about receiving quick charge.
If I'm not mistaken, the Type C spec allows quick charging, but only if you use C to C, with the extra pins it's able to keep better track of the charging process I guess.
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Yes, it seems all matter of cables...!
I have a Blitzwolf QC3.0 too BUT I'm able to obtain "Turbocharge" indication only using a *single* micro USB to type C adaptor. This with every cable and every charger. Even when connected to a USB port!
If I use every other cable or similar adaptors (I've tested many...), the "Turbocharge" never shows (except original charger obviously...).
With Blitzwolf QC3 and this cable/adaptor I got a full charge from less than 5% in about 70-75 min... during the charge cable was OK, while the adaptor (with metallic/aluminium exterior) was quite warm but never really hot in dangerous way...

Here's more information than any of you probably care about, but I'm tired of seeing the same misinformation and confusion being thrown around (not just in the Moto Z forum, but in a bunch of others, too).
chromedome00 said:
No USB-C device can support Quick Charge - it violates the USB-C spec.
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That's not true. Case in point: my ZTE Axon 7 and LeEco S3 both use QC 3.0 and both are USB-C. The common confusion comes from using "USB-C" (a connector) and "Type-C" (interchangeably used to refer to the connector and the power specification) incorrectly. Clarification below.
chromedome00 said:
Any quality USB-C charger that is higher amp will TurboCharge a phone. Moto screwed up by using TurboCharging name with both QuickCharge and USB-C - they are different.
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This is mostly true. "TurboPower" is the stupid name Moto uses to refer to the Type-C power specification. Actually, I'm being unfair: it's confusing that they called it "Type-C" in the first place and Moto took the opportunity to market the spec as their own thing.
Before going any further, let's use a common analogy to make the relationship between, wattage, voltage, and amperage easier to understand in broad terms. Wattage is the amount of water going through a pipe. Voltage is how fast that water is moving and amperage is the size of the pipe. 15W is 15W, but you can get there by having a tiny pipe (1A) with water moving really fast through it (15V) or a really big pipe (3A) with water going more slowly through it (5V). They both move the same amount of power, but in different ways. Got it? Good.
Anyway, Type-C has a fixed voltage and maxes out at 15W ([email protected]). Quick Charge 1.0 does only 10W ([email protected]), 2.0 does 18W (5/9/12V @ 3.6/2/1.5A respectively), and 3.0 does 18W with varying voltage (3.6-20V) and amperage (5-0.9A) to match. That is the advantage of QC over Type-C: a higher voltage can (usually) be run through those old and cheap USB cables without issue since voltage tolerance is determined largely by the phone and the charger. As long as the amperage doesn't exceed the capacity (gauge) of the wire, higher voltage is fine.
Amperage, though, that's what causes non-compliant or crappy cables to burn up. Really old or especially cheap cables can handle 1A max (heck, if they were built to spec, only 500mA for USB 2.0), but most cables of reasonable quality can handle 2A without much issue. They tend to use lower gauge (thicker) wires and should *not* feel warm at all when using it to charge. Some manufacturers (Samsung, for example) used to disable data on their USB cables and use it for additional amperage capacity, which is why you would occasionally buy a phone with a cable that wouldn't work for data transfer in the computer but would charge your phone just fine.
Moving on. Technically, QC 1.0 and QC 3.0 do not violate the Type-C power spec. QC 1.0 because it can't exceed it and QC 3.0 because it's variable. That said, QC 3.0 (and possibly QC 1.0, I don't know) require protocol negotiation; if that negotiation is lacking (in the case of the Moto Z), it's going to default to a "safe" charging rate (around 5W, plus or minus some). Your QC 2.0 does technically violate the Type-C spec because its voltage and amperage rates are fixed: you can get 5V at up to 3.6A. The "up to" bit is the important part. I have seen in various threads folks claiming their non-QC 3.0 phones will work with QC 2.0 chargers just fine and it's probably because the amperage tolerance is there (ie. it will actually allow 3.6A, violating spec) or it gets throttled (ie. sticks to 3A, keeping to spec).
Shadowdancer123 said:
The Moto Z is absurdly picky when it comes to quick charge specs.
...
And in fact, using a Non-QC 5V 3A charger, caused my cable to melt, and start to glow.
Incredibly my phone charging port survived.
...
If I'm not mistaken, the Type C spec allows quick charging, but only if you use C to C, with the extra pins it's able to keep better track of the charging process I guess.
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All Type-C and USB-PD compliant devices are picky about the charge specs, not just the Moto Z. Or, at least, they're supposed to be for the reasons outlined above (namely the amperage). QC devices are less picky because it frequently uses higher voltage, which we established above as being much more tolerable for cables of varying quality.
Your cable melting and glowing is to be expected when you push 3A through a cable that likely can't handle more than 2A or so. Your phone charging port survived because it's designed to handle 3A.
I'm not entirely sure about which pins do what on a USB-C connector, but you're right in the C-to-C is the only connection that (should, according to spec) support Type-C and USB-PD (Power Delivery). The rate is negotiated via the USB Power Delivery 2.0 "power rules", which define four acceptable voltages (5/9/15/20) and variable amperage (0.1-5) to obtain charge rates as low as 0.5W and as high as 100W. "Type-C" is part of the Power Delivery spec, but is usually limited to only the 5V rule. I'm fairly certain the Moto Z does not support anything past the first level power rule, which is why you likely won't find the Moto Z to charge significantly faster with the TurboPower 30 included with the Moto Z Force than it does with its original TurboPower 15 charger. No clue as to whether that's a hardware or software limitation.

Also, to answer the OP's original question: any reputable (Anker, Aukey, Choetech, Belkin, etc) that uses an actual USB-C port will work. Most (if not all) dual port units will have a USB-C port that will work with the Moto Z (or any other Type-C/USB-PD device) and a QC 3.0 compatible "traditional" USB-A port. I have yet to find one that includes two USB-C ports and I really hate the ones with integrated cables.
My personal favorite is the Choetech for $16 since its QC 3.0 USB-A port is reversible: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01AAGH8OY/
This Aukey is cheaper ($15) and would be fine: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01E764DXM/
Here's a Tronsmart for $16, as well: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B018K7LHBU/
Even this $10 Vinsic should be okay: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B014F2NQ36/
Just for funsies, here's a spreadsheet of the Benson Leung cable and charger tests: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wJwqv3rTNmORXz-XJsQaXK1dl8I91V4-eP_sfNVNzbA/edit#gid=0
Interestingly, the $10 Vinsic is on his list of approved. So there. Go buy a $10 car charger and be happy.

I have the aukey 6 port usb charging station with two QC 3.0 ports, I am using high quality braided usb 3.0 to type c cables - I have tested both QC 3.0 ports and the other ports (using ampere) - Every port lists charging as "normal" - QC port 1 shows a min of 640mA and a max of 1040mA. QC Port 2 shows - min of 530 mA and a max of 980 mA. Regular ports 3-6 all show a min of 270mA and max of 870 mA. Not one port indicated it was ever turbo or fast charging. This same charger does fast charge my lg G5 and Samsung S7 Edge.

this one is verified to give the "TurboPower connected" message when plugged in.
From what I have read, both QC 2.0 and 3.0 doesn't turbo charge moto phones. Qualcomms QC charging works by increasing the voltage and decreasing the amps. So you can have 12v and 2amp for a total of 24 watts, but that won't turbo charge the moto z. Moto works on 5 volts but needs at least 3 amps. It is the amps that seem to engage the Motos into turbo charge mode, and they have to be at least 3 amps.
This Belkin model, for example, is what Benson Leung uses for his pixel xl. Its one of the few on Amazon that is USB-IF certified for 5v 3amp.

rczrider said:
Here's more information than any of you probably care about, but I'm tired of seeing the same misinformation and confusion being thrown around (not just in the Moto Z forum, but in a bunch of others, too).
That's not true. Case in point: my ZTE Axon 7 and LeEco S3 both use QC 3.0 and both are USB-C. The common confusion comes from using "USB-C" (a connector) and "Type-C" (interchangeably used to refer to the connector and the power specification) incorrectly. Clarification below.
Moving on. Technically, QC 1.0 and QC 3.0 do not violate the Type-C power spec. QC 1.0 because it can't exceed it and QC 3.0 because it's variable. That said, QC 3.0 (and possibly QC 1.0, I don't know) require protocol negotiation; if that negotiation is lacking (in the case of the Moto Z), it's going to default to a "safe" charging rate (around 5W, plus or minus some). Your QC 2.0 does technically violate the Type-C spec because its voltage and amperage rates are fixed: you can get 5V at up to 3.6A. The "up to" bit is the important part. I have seen in various threads folks claiming their non-QC 3.0 phones will work with QC 2.0 chargers just fine and it's probably because the amperage tolerance is there (ie. it will actually allow 3.6A, violating spec) or it gets throttled (ie. sticks to 3A, keeping to spec).
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I think you are propagating mis-information. If you want to catch up on why QC 2.0/3.0 violate the USB-C spec, here it is from the horses mouth:
https://plus.google.com/+BensonLeung/posts/cEvVQLXhyRX
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...omm-quick-charge-with-android-incompatibility
Interestingly Qualcomm has QC 4.0 now and they call out integration with USB-C and USB-PD https://www.qualcomm.com/news/relea...livers-20-faster-charging-improved-efficiency
"Quick Charge 4 also integrates USB Type-C and USB-PD support, making the industry’s most popular battery charging solution available on the widest variety of cables and adapters."
USB-C has 24 pins while standard USB-A has 4. Quick Charge chargers (2.0/3.0) only have the 4 pins of USB-A - so if it can't use the data lines, then it can't quick charge via USB-C. Since there are only 4 outputs, plugging a USB-C cable into a QC 2.0/3.0 charger will not change anything. Still only 4 wires originating from the charger. The data lines are not allowed to be used for voltage, so your QC charger will only supply a fixed 5V to the phone. So no Quick Charge.

If QC3 supports [email protected] couldn't it supply power at [email protected] to turbocharge?
Looking for a solution to turbocharge my Moto Z and support QC3 for LG G5/Samsung S7.

The TurboPower 15 wall charger delivers hours of power in just minutes of charging. It includes micro USB and single USB charging cables so you can use it on compatible smartphones, tablets, digital cameras and more.
Have a Moto Z or another USB-C enabled device? The TurboPower 30 wall charger is USB-C compatible.
Looking for a car charger? Shop at Motorola Home.

zaki67 said:
I got this one :Nekteck 5.4A USB-C Car Charger from Amazon for 15$ and it does turbo charge my phone .
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Just ordered one of these. This one specifically
Hopefully it'll work out well

This one works fine.
https://store.google.com/product/belkin_15w_usb_c_car_charger
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swejuggalo said:
This one works fine.
https://store.google.com/product/belkin_15w_usb_c_car_charger
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YES! I can confirm it!