Hey all. Currently, evilpotatoman has gotten us closer than ever to achieving root with our phones. He's out of commission at this time until his device back comes in, which could take 2 weeks or more. He has extended the torch to any dev who might be interested in taking a crack at it with his notes (included below). Reference the bounty thread here for details about the bootloader/root bounty information.
!!!!PLEASE DO NOT POST YOUR BOUNTY AMOUNTS HERE!!!! DO IT IN RAYLON00'S THREAD FOR CONTINUITY: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=3339857
evilpotatoman said:
Here's where it's at, but first a few notes and thoughts;
A) Even after upsetting dm-verity, the system remained somewhat stable*
*The only issues I see are the system:custom message, an unlocked boot logo, and that the stock installer refuses to install anything but FOTAs or a sec_csc.zip flashed on the CACHE partition. If cleared, the system boots up normally
B) It's extremely difficult to reverse dev this device - Every piece of secure-trust-knox-DRK-verity-crapola increases the chance of a misstep and ending up with a really nice IOT brick. Because of all this security, looking for buffer overflows and random execs would take ages. I focused on stupid programming mistakes, sifting through log files, much like I did when developing the original Note 3 recovery method.
C) The HOME_CSC partition file that seems to fail typical odin flashes -- It sets something permanent, like kind of hard-coding the verity keys. During my testing, I flashed one only to later realize that my CSC was then hard-coded to Chinese branding. Before that flash, I could mess around with the branding at will (and subsequently write to the system partition). It was only after I flashed that CSC_HOME that dm-verity actually failed. In short -- I had root BEFORE download mode labeled my system as custom. I flashed HOME_CSC, dm-verity then failed when I changed the CSC following the hard-code.
I have yet to fully re-create my EFS partition, and sent it to someone who wears darker hats than I for a fix. Because I won't have the phone for a while (at least 2 weeks), I've decided to give a brain dump in hopes that someone can pick up where I left off.
PM me for additional details, but the following should get better devs searching for a more stable method.
sec_csc.zips (found in cache.img.ext4) can be used to modify the system partition, and the partition itself isn't signed. Those zips also set the region.
*A particularly interesting csc zip exists for the G9300's CSC file.....
Odin happily flashes specific "partitions" individually, so piece-meal it out.
nand partitions can be written to while still failing in odin (but system.img is signed in 2 places, so fyi)
The exploit leverages those download-mode/recovery, plus the stupid programming error found below:
on the stock firmware, there's a boot script that calls a missing binary, which is a perfect -in- for the su daemon.
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Click to collapse
You can PM evilpotatoman here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/member.php?u=2322344
Very cool! This looks promising
Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk
maybe @jcadduono can do something here?
Holy ****! This is big news!
seanvree said:
maybe @jcadduono can do something here?
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He does not have a s7, so I doubt he can help much
Maybe jcase can work on boot loader and root
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
@jcase and @beaups come to mind.
I'd love to see this take off. To that effect, may I suggest contacting the dev you're wondering about and asking (POLITELY) if they intend to or are willing to contribute to this project?
Additionally, since we have nearly $2000 pledged for a root method, we can set up a fund to get the devices in the hands of the devs willing to work on the issue that may not have a device, starting with @evilpotatoman if he needs it. This might also give people who were apprehensive about contributing to the bounty another option to support this endeavor, and gives the rest of us a way to actively contribute instead of saying "here's your prize if you win."
Someone could even act as a third party to set up the fund (be it gofundme or something else, I need to research options). We may not all know how to fight on the front lines, but there are definitely ways the rest of us peons can actively support the effort instead of being passive and hoping it eventually happens because someone else did it.
Thoughts, suggestions, questions?
@jcase hacked the unhackable black phone.... I ask him on Twitter but he didn't say if he would have time to do it or not...
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
Tagging him won't help. I don't think he likes to tagged often. I'm talking about jcase. If he wants to he will. Since evilpotatoman has opened up this whole new scenario. I hope all the devs see it and try to put on their magic. But yes. I have my bet on jcase. Have seen his work from a while back. A mastermind I must admit.
Sent from my SM-G935T using XDA-Developers mobile app
Mew351 said:
Holy ****! This is big news!
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No it isnt, this is exactly zero news.
That entire post is wrong, it is full of basic factual errors that make question if its a troll, or a misunderstanding of how these things work.
I may nitpick it when I get home if anyone disagrees with my evaluation of it, but a simple view:
a) messing with dm-verity wouldnt cause system stability issues at all, either it would boot or not.
b) reverse engineering this device is no harder than previous ones, there is no insane obfuscation or anything (just some simple obfuscation). Standard toolsets would work ehre.
c) The "custom" symbol is just a sign of tampering, in fact I could make a standard app to cause it. It wouldn't stop or remove root from a system.
The whole post in general is gibberish.
Dont start funds for developers who need phones, too many times it comes out bad.
We allow bounties, but funds need to be pledged not held by a single person, and they should not be paid out unless the project is completed, and posted (and is of primarily original work).
psych0r3bel said:
I'd love to see this take off. To that effect, may I suggest contacting the dev you're wondering about and asking (POLITELY) if they intend to or are willing to contribute to this project?
Additionally, since we have nearly $2000 pledged for a root method, we can set up a fund to get the devices in the hands of the devs willing to work on the issue that may not have a device, starting with @evilpotatoman if he needs it. This might also give people who were apprehensive about contributing to the bounty another option to support this endeavor, and gives the rest of us a way to actively contribute instead of saying "here's your prize if you win."
Someone could even act as a third party to set up the fund (be it gofundme or something else, I need to research options). We may not all know how to fight on the front lines, but there are definitely ways the rest of us peons can actively support the effort instead of being passive and hoping it eventually happens because someone else did it.
Thoughts, suggestions, questions?
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Click to collapse
jcase said:
Dont start funds for developers who need phones, too many times it comes out bad.
We allow bounties, but funds need to be pledged not held by a single person, and they should not be paid out unless the project is completed, and posted (and is of primarily original work).
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Click to collapse
Fair enough. I probably should have checked to see if there was any rule against this. Regardless, from a common sense standpoint you make...well, sense. Wrote myself into a corner there. >.>
As for the entire OP being gibberish...you're essentially saying we're back at square one, or is he at least barking up the right tree, in your opinion? As you can tell, I'm a little overzealous when it comes to this phone getting root lol.
jcase said:
No it isnt, this is exactly zero news.
That entire post is wrong, it is full of basic factual errors that make question if its a troll, or a misunderstanding of how these things work.
I may nitpick it when I get home if anyone disagrees with my evaluation of it, but a simple view:
a) messing with dm-verity wouldnt cause system stability issues at all, either it would boot or not.
b) reverse engineering this device is no harder than previous ones, there is no insane obfuscation or anything (just some simple obfuscation). Standard toolsets would work ehre.
c) The "custom" symbol is just a sign of tampering, in fact I could make a standard app to cause it. It wouldn't stop or remove root from a system.
The whole post in general is gibberish.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
psych0r3bel said:
Fair enough. I probably should have checked to see if there was any rule against this. Regardless, from a common sense standpoint you make...well, sense. Wrote myself into a corner there. >.>
As for the entire OP being gibberish...you're essentially saying we're back at square one, or is he at least barking up the right tree, in your opinion? As you can tell, I'm a little overzealous when it comes to this phone getting root lol.
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Well he did manage to get root so I don't know how it is all gibberish.
jakebake102 said:
Well he did manage to get root so I don't know how it is all gibberish.
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I don't believe you or him on that. It is gibberish because its factually wrong, if it wasnt factually wrong I wouldnt have a reason to doubt someone in particular got root. When you make it apparent you are making stuff up or dont know what your talking about, it casts a major doubt.
Plus the proof shown, just showing that syscope got tripped, its not showing root, its not showing unlock, its literally showing nothing of any indication.
jakebake102 said:
Well he did manage to get root so I don't know how it is all gibberish.
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Click to collapse
It is possible to see and not understand. Often times an opinion held about the cause of a specific behavior in a complex system can be premature, and when new information comes to light suddenly all of the indicators that pointed to one cause suddenly mean something very different. The problem comes not with forming these theories about what causes a behavior, but in voicing that opinion before it is fully vetted out by your own tests.
In short, it is possible to be right about what you see, but wrong about what caused it.
jcase said:
I don't believe you or him on that. It is gibberish because its factually wrong, if it wasnt factually wrong I wouldnt have a reason to doubt someone in particular got root. When you make it apparent you are making stuff up or dont know what your talking about, it casts a major doubt.
Plus the proof shown, just showing that syscope got tripped, its not showing root, its not showing unlock, its literally showing nothing of any indication.
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Ok well thanks for looking this over.
jakebake102 said:
Well he did manage to get root so I don't know how it is all gibberish.
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Click to collapse
Everyone beat me to it, but yeah. He said it, hasn't proven it. If he managed to get root, great. I gave him the benefit of the doubt, but now we have a known dev basically discrediting everything based upon his own expertise.
So from this point forward, the onus of proof is on the OP to prove he has/had root. Nothing a screenshot can't prove. It's entirely possible he did get root, but for a different reason than he stated, and posting his proof opens up the floor for a discussion on the exact process. The result doesn't produce the method, so maybe he stumbled upon root by chance in the midst of his work, which led him to think his method worked. Too many variables. That's why we discuss these things.
jcase said:
No it isnt, this is exactly zero news.
That entire post is wrong, it is full of basic factual errors that make question if its a troll, or a misunderstanding of how these things work.
I may nitpick it when I get home if anyone disagrees with my evaluation of it, but a simple view:
a) messing with dm-verity wouldnt cause system stability issues at all, either it would boot or not.
b) reverse engineering this device is no harder than previous ones, there is no insane obfuscation or anything (just some simple obfuscation). Standard toolsets would work ehre.
c) The "custom" symbol is just a sign of tampering, in fact I could make a standard app to cause it. It wouldn't stop or remove root from a system.
The whole post in general is gibberish.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey jcase (I know you from the old days on XDA, just a bit undercover now for XDA reasons.) Anyway, please don't let the excitement of some folks turn you off to this whole idea. These Qualcomm variants of the S7/Edge are majorly great devices, and root would be ****ing awesome for everyone, so people are gonna get worked up about it. You KNOW how XDA gets. If you believe that there might be a straightforward exploit available, similar to the CID directory exploit that was used in the VS5, please pass on any help you can. (Or even if it has nothing to do with that route.)
All I know is that if you, or bceups, or anyone could actually help make this happen (and this is definitely a "they say it'll never happen" moment, like the Evo3d or the VS5) then you'd be rockstars of the community, more than you are now, however much that means to you. (It means a lot to me, I promise you.) If you think there's hope, and you're willing to give it a shot, ****ing bad ass... If not, maybe PM evilpotatoman and give him a nudge in the direction you'd think would work best.
Either way, I, and I'm sure every GS7/EDGE customer in America who's into Android, definitely have your back.
Let us know your thoughts, and if there's actually a ray of hope.
That's all I got.
Peace, bro.
Edit: and, btw, there IS some big bounty or something to boot, lol.
..
Related
Just curious, but let's say that we go to the market and find a cool new program.
Turns out, while it installs something such as a new IM client, it locks the phone up.
Is it possible? Can they change firmware from a software title? Just a random paranoid thought
Not quite sure by what you mean "locks the phone up" but if you mean make changes to the settings because you have root and left it open, yes. This has been addressed and if you have root, you should have already secured it. If not, you have 2 choices, a: realise you might not be a user in need of root, or b: go read how to secure root (with a password).
I have been an advocate of root on the G1 from the start, even while everyone was saying "users do not need root". I am recently starting to notice a lot of issues with users having root and blindly running apps they do not know about, or bricking their phones because they are running complex system commands without knowing what it is doing. Keep in mind, root = god as far as the phone is concerned. You can and probably will kill your phone if you are not careful. I would advise you obtain root, secure it and do not touch it unless you know what you are doing. This will give you the ability to use things in the future that require root while still keeping you somewhat safe.
Also, this is not directed only at the author of this post, but anyone who has posted in the last few days who is making changes they do not fully understand, running programs that require root without knowing what access they are giving it, or anyone who follows my advice and upgraded to root "just incase" but doesnt know what to do with it.
I do not want to see a massive rush of users returning "rooted" G1's to tmobile and getting refunds/exchanges and have tmobile suddenly think this is an epidemic and start really working hard to secure the phone. That would not be good for anyone, but that is where were are headed.
Technically, yes...
Just like nuuneoi's Orientation program runs as superuser without letting you know...
I don't see them being that sneaky, though... It probably would provide ground for a class-action suit if it comes from T-Mo.
how can we sue? i didn't read the fine print, but i would imagine flashing a modded version of android would break their TOS
d0nkey said:
how can we sue? i didn't read the fine print, but i would imagine flashing a modded version of android would break their TOS
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I'm just speculating... It just seems sneaky and evil...
I assume the TOS relates to the actual "service" (haven't read it, either). They can ban me from T-Mobile, but they better not maliciously install their poop-infested code in phone.
P.S. People are gang-bang suing for the early cancellation fees, even though they all signed the contract.
npace said:
I'm just speculating... It just seems sneaky and evil...
I assume the TOS relates to the actual "service" (haven't read it, either). They can ban me from T-Mobile, but they better not maliciously install their poop-infested code in phone.
P.S. People are gang-bang suing for the early cancellation fees, even though they all signed the contract.
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Click to collapse
Um...the fact is, Google is allowed to kill any software they think is "bad". This has been public a year before the phone's release.
Now, I have downloaded the patch and installed it (to have a pop-up asking if it's ok to run root)
However, many of us are new to nix commands as I am myself. How do you assign a password to root?
momentarylapseofreason said:
Um...the fact is, Google is allowed to kill any software they think is "bad". This has been public a year before the phone's release.
Now, I have downloaded the patch and installed it (to have a pop-up asking if it's ok to run root)
However, many of us are new to nix commands as I am myself. How do you assign a password to root?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Code:
su
passwd
God mode for my phone? Yes please.
Stop with the fear tactics regarding the dangers of root access. People actually going through the trouble of figuring out how to do are aware of the risks. It will never be an issue of phones returned, because an unlocked phone return is an immediate dealbreaker, warranty void, and most people understand that.
But the desire for freedom. Maybe I have to move to another country but this lock down bullsh*t on U.S. phones in particular is a real nuisance.
They track us with the gps, FBI can listen in thru the mic even when the phone is off, they have the remote kill switch.... at least let me install the apps i want with root access for the love of Chr*st.
Give us the freedom we seek from a Linux OS.
F*cking FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
strangethingz said:
God mode for my phone? Yes please.
Stop with the fear tactics regarding the dangers of root access. People actually going through the trouble of figuring out how to do are aware of the risks. It will never be an issue of phones returned, because an unlocked phone return is an immediate dealbreaker, warranty void, and most people understand that.
But the desire for freedom. Maybe I have to move to another country but this lock down bullsh*t on U.S. phones in particular is a real nuisance.
They track us with the gps, FBI can listen in thru the mic even when the phone is off, they have the remote kill switch.... at least let me install the apps i want with root access for the love of Chr*st.
Give us the freedom we seek from a Linux OS.
F*cking FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The warranty wouldn't be void so long as you flash back to RC29 or 30 without the mods (both avail online)... just FYI
Nice to know consumers and civilians still have a trick or two left up their sleeve in this over-controlled greed filled market.
strangethingz said:
God mode for my phone? Yes please.
Stop with the fear tactics regarding the dangers of root access. People actually going through the trouble of figuring out how to do are aware of the risks. It will never be an issue of phones returned, because an unlocked phone return is an immediate dealbreaker, warranty void, and most people understand that.
But the desire for freedom. Maybe I have to move to another country but this lock down bullsh*t on U.S. phones in particular is a real nuisance.
They track us with the gps, FBI can listen in thru the mic even when the phone is off, they have the remote kill switch.... at least let me install the apps i want with root access for the love of Chr*st.
Give us the freedom we seek from a Linux OS.
F*cking FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have just shown that your post count is probably even with your "read" count. If you had been reading this and other forums you will see that lots of users are installing root, running commands they find in random posts, installing apps without knowing what they do etc... For you to come in here saying everyone knows the risks is absurd. Also, if you had read anything here, you would see that numerous users are on their "new" or "second" G1 after having bricked it somehow and returned it for a replacement. At the time being tmo doesnt seem to know how to tell if a phone has been tweaked, but they will soon.
Spend some time upping your read/post ratio and then come back with your opinions.
Dude, come on... I appreciate the typical response about reading through the massive forum before posting...
The point is... We pay a lot for these things, we are monitored and we have control switches all over the place.... when it comes to tweaks, people want
FREEEEDOOOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And you speak against Freedom?
No, I am speaking against someone who makes a post about nothing using non factual bits of information and uses "FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" and thinks that repeating that will bring him a following because its just such a cool word to use with all them purdy exclamation points!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
strangethingz said:
They track us with the gps, FBI can listen in thru the mic even when the phone is off, they have the remote kill switch.... at least let me install the apps i want with root access for the love of Chr*st.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And they steal food from your refrigerator when you're not looking!
JesusFreke said:
And they steal food from your refrigerator when you're not looking!
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You have no idea what you are talking about... that is the NSA, so please only speak when you are sure about your answer.
Darkrift said:
You have no idea what you are talking about... that is the NSA, so please only speak when you are sure about your answer.
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Sorry! I stand corrected
JesusFreke said:
And they steal food from your refrigerator when you're not looking!
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So that's where that leftover slice of pizza went... CASE CLOSED!
strangethingz said:
God mode for my phone? Yes please.
Stop with the fear tactics regarding the dangers of root access. People actually going through the trouble of figuring out how to do are aware of the risks. It will never be an issue of phones returned, because an unlocked phone return is an immediate dealbreaker, warranty void, and most people understand that.
But the desire for freedom. Maybe I have to move to another country but this lock down bullsh*t on U.S. phones in particular is a real nuisance.
They track us with the gps, FBI can listen in thru the mic even when the phone is off, they have the remote kill switch.... at least let me install the apps i want with root access for the love of Chr*st.
Give us the freedom we seek from a Linux OS.
F*cking FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They can listen in thru the mic even when the phone is off, first I've ever heard of that!!!
jashsu said:
So that's where that leftover slice of pizza went... CASE CLOSED!
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Funny... I swear they like to mess with me and take something but leave something else. LOL I think I found your leftover pizza
strangethingz said:
GPeople actually going through the trouble of figuring out how to do are aware of the risks.
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Click to collapse
Dude. Do you HONESTLY believe that? Go to the Ubuntu forums and read the new header at the top of EVERY forum about not posting malicious commands, cos too many people said 'oh, run rm -rf to fix that!' and too many people who had no idea what that did RAN IT. People don't bother to check up on what stuff does before they run it, they just go 'oooo, this will do what I want? Cool!'
The short version:
Let's get Google to change the market incompatibility from "You can't have this," to "Are you sure...?" Because quite honestly why waste precious minutes downloading an APK from some unknown source that for all you know could be tempered with and wind up ****ing up your device.
The teal deer version:
There are now numerous threads regarding this issue and I think it's time we had one that was the central place for us to discuss this issue as it's too scattered about and so far all attempts at remedying the issue have been either in vain or temporary. We shouldn't have to suffer so much over something so unnecessary.
The idea is sound, sure, but its ways of going about doing so are very wrong. In the event that an app doesn't work as expected, or at least in suspicion of such, it need only be noted as a warning to the user. So instead of seeing that black bar stating that we can't have app X and have the install button disabled, we should see that same black bar but with a warning and the install button enabled irregardless.
If big brother is worried that because the app is known to have issues on our devices then they need only to disable the ability to rate the app for that specific user. But that's about it, as it's fairer to both parties involved. We shouldn't have to go through the hassle of having to have to keep looking for ways around something that only goes to further slow down progress, or downloading and installing APK files every time there's an update to our apps (some of which were paid for)!
We need to attack the disease at its source rather than treat the symptoms.
What the issue is basically is that "power" users prefer to use tweaked settings that the market doesn't like despite the fact that those same apps Google deems incompatible, when installed as APKs, actually work flawlessly.
I figured we should have this thread focus on the following issues:
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1. Have something of a Database (or at least a simple list for now) of all the apps that El Goog doesn't want us to install. Just to emphasize the issue as there are quite a bit of apps that work flawlessly and appear in the market, while others aren't (in some cases without the developer's own wishes or knowledge for that matter). And we then label them as working 100% perfectly well or buggy under conditions Y and Z.
We make the list of all apps that are known to be incompatible and actually are! So far I've not encountered a single one. And I've been using my freak device with its freaky settings for a year+ now.
2. This is something I'm still thinking about and am not 100% sure if should be done. Start a petition on Change.org and bring this to big brother's attention as he tends to ignore the little guy. In numbers there's strength.
3. Get a list of app developers who are aware of the issue and support our cause. The reason for three is because I've been in contact with one app developer who was turned down by big brother after pursuing help with this issue because they "don't provide support for custom roms." And it's OK that they don't, as it's reasonable enough. But give us the option of opting out if you think it's wise to, and opt in even if it might cause issue. We're adults for god's sake.
4. Make a list of currently available solutions to fix the so-called 'feature' while we're waiting for an actual fix.
I'll keep this post as updated as I can with the latest known and consistently updated fixes for this 'bug'. Yeah, I said it.
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So far every single app I used worked flawlessly on my I9100 running CM10 with DorimanX custom kernel. I've set the DPI to 160 and I can't imagine myself going back to anything above that. And to emphasize, I've had these setting (or at least the DPI and CM) for so long now (about a year) that I forget sometimes that I'm using something that isn't exactly 'standard', per se.
I mean, if you can live with the default dpi then that's cool, good for you. But I've had a taste of the forbidden fruit, and now I can't go back. . . .
I'm not going to start crusading just yet. First I'd like your, the community of XDA, input on this issue before we do anything. If you have any suggestions or criticism you'd like to share with us, I'd like to hear it, personally. For I may be wrong about the whole thing. Call it, lacking in confidence.
Thank you.
Reserved, just in case.
Also reserved, just in case.
Well this is fantastic. Congrats on the nerve for writing this freakishly long post. That's what I was thinking since the moment I encountered "I'm sorry, but we think this won't work as planned on your device and we deem you stupid enough to make wrong choices, so we'll just put this install button on this shelf right here, where you can't reach it" error.
However, I just said screw it, there's tons of sites where I can just download what I want without anyone questioning my motives and whether it will work or not. Never thought of it as a big deal, just as a tougher way of doing stuff, but not much I can do about it.
To get to the point, I support this cause, will sign whatever I need to sign, but am to lazy to start it myself Just wanted to give you some support. If you're willing to put some more time into this, maybe this is the beggining of a revolution! Revolution of geeks with custom DPIs! But it's still something damn it!
Cheers mate!
Sent from my Desire HD using xda app-developers app
Thank you, Uros. I was happy to read your reply.
It seems that there is no interest in this, however. Very unfortunate, but I suppose if this is what the people want. . . . It was worth a try.
Thanks for your effort.
I am rather curious to know if this is because people were going "tl;dr" or they're genuinely not interested in having this issue fixed. I just need to know so that I could make the proper adjustments.
Granted, it would take a bit longer, but as Goethe said, "I apologize in advance, had I had more time, this letter would be shorter."
Or is it that most people believe that the odds of getting Google to listen to us are too small?
There's a reason why Google won't give us the option to install anyway, just as there's a reason as to why this probably hasn't been noticed by as many people as preferred.
It all comes down to noobs.
Regarding this thread, the noobs are probably coming across this thread and click because they're interested by the title. They see all the text and think "F&#k that!". Unfortunately, that is generally the noob mentality.
Maybe colouring some of the text and spacing it out a little bit more could help the cause, but only time would tell.
Now onto the matter at hand.
I personally don't think Google will allow us to install apps anyway (even though I think they should) because noobs are super dangerous to themselves. In general, noobs won't read which then means that if they go to install an app which isn't compatible and install it anyway, they won't read that it could potentially harm their device.
The other type of user to make a mistake when it comes to installing such apps, would be the general android population. After all, us here on XDA are but a small proportion of Android users globally. Just because we have knowledge about what should and shouldn't be on our devices and how to make things work which shouldn't, the average Android user isn't the same.
They'd probably see the message and simply think "It says it could harm my phone but it's a great phone so nothing will go wrong". That is where problems can then occur.
The noobs and the average android owner would then have mucked up their device in one way or another and would be blaming and complaining to Google (as if it was Google's mistake). That makes it cause more harm than good, hence why I don't think it will happen.
Just my 2 cents, of course
''Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver''
spoke to supervisor at att and said 4.3 is att and is n testin and will b released this week comin up about 500 to 600 mb download so get ready .ps those will get notified thru text for upgrade and others will get it the next day so there wont b no errors n the download and no overloadin the system yadaya...and more bloatware aswell from att but hey we get wat we pay for so get ure phone prepared and clean it good so u wont miss any files or uno
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda app-developers app
If there is going to be an update, we all should be prepared to see its affects on rooting and recoveries, I don't want another MF3 nightmare- again.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4 (SGH-i337) via Tapatalk 4
I will not trust too much AT&T guys! From my experience they are not too many people knowing when the update will be release. Well lets keep the hopes up and freeze the update to not lose the root!
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
The Canadians haven't received it yet (though it is slated for October) and you expect people to believe AT&T will be releasing it this week? I guess it could happen, but I've yet to see any convincing evidence. Anyone working at AT&T should not be considered a good source for anything. Regardless, don't touch it until it is checked out by those that know what they are doing. Of course, the same "challenged" people that screwed up with MF3 (and continue to do so) will do the same with 4.3 no matter what kind of warnings people post. Some people just don't know how to read and never learn from their mistakes.
scott14719 said:
The Canadians haven't received it yet (though it is slated for October) and you expect people to believe AT&T will be releasing it this week? I guess it could happen, but I've yet to see any convincing evidence. Anyone working at AT&T should not be considered a good source for anything. Regardless, don't touch it until it is checked out by those that know what they are doing. Of course, the same "challenged" people that screwed up with MF3 (and continue to do so) will do the same with 4.3 no matter what kind of warnings people post. Some people just don't know how to read and never learn from their mistakes.
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Click to collapse
Well my phone auto updated, so not everyone who upgraded to MF3 did it on their own, it just happened with mine, now I know to freeze those processes with titanium backup
Kingo root might still work for it. It worked for mf3 baseband with one-click root.
Sent from my SGH-I337 using xda app-developers app
It'll be locked down tighter than mf3. Each new version will patch the previous versions vulnerabilities.
ACardAttack said:
Well my phone auto updated, so not everyone who upgraded to MF3 did it on their own, it just happened with mine, now I know to freeze those processes with titanium backup
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Click to collapse
It was posted several times well before MF3 was ever released:
A. Do not take the MF3 update until it was checked out (unless you don't care about modding).
and
B. A couple of ways to prevent the update, automatic or not.
It was then reported / posted several times directly after MF3 started pushing (within 1 day) that it would auto-update and exact instructions were provided on how to keep it from doing so.
There are no excuses, just lack of reading.
Like I said, if you don't care about changing or modding your phone than it doesn't matter, but if you are here at XDA in the first place, it means you DO want to do things to your phone and therefore, there is no excuse for not knowing about the updates, what to do or not to do with them, and how to prevent them if needed. The only reason for this is not reading.
Personally, I don't care. I know what to do for my phone because I search, learn, and read. However, the dozens and dozens of people that come running here crying for help when they should have helped themselves is annoying. It's sad when people take the time to provide information in an informative and easily understandable way and others just ignore it and then want to blame others because they did so. And that is exactly what happens...again, no excuses.
If people would read THIS, I am telling them NOT to update before the update is checked out to see what it changes and effects. The thread title is, "OFFICIAL 4.3 UPDATE AT&T I337". That is all the information that is needed for a search here at XDA, on Google, or even a simple visual search. If anyone puts ANY minimal effort into it, they can see what I have posted here. But, that is the problem, people are too lazy and to entitled to do anything on their own to take responsibility for what they do to their phones. They would rather call the people that follow XDA rules and take responsibility for what they do names like "****" or "Condescending" when it is pointed out to them where to learn about what they want to do and what they should have done to begin with.
So, here it is if you want to ever MOD your phone again in any way:
DO NOT TAKE THE AT&T 4.3 UPDATE (OR ANY OTHER UPDATES) OR ALLOW YOUR PHONE TO AUTO-UPDATE UNTIL THE DEVS AT XDA HAVE A CHANCE TO CHECK THE UPDATE OUT TO SEE WHAT IT CHANGES!
If you do, it is your own damn fault...take responsibility for it!
jd1639 said:
It'll be locked down tighter than mf3. Each new version will patch the previous versions vulnerabilities.
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Click to collapse
Sigh... so true. That's why I will never outright buy a phone from AT&T again.
Will be getting a GPE phone if I go with another Galaxy.
To keep it on topic, I'm with the others on this, I don't put my faith in employees at AT&T. Sure it's possible the update could drop this week... but either way I won't be updating any time soon.
scott14719 said:
It was posted several times well before MF3 was ever released:
There are no excuses, just lack of reading.
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No excuses you know, unless you don't frequent forums like this and it just happened....
ACardAttack said:
No excuses you know, unless you don't frequent forums like this and it just happened....
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Click to collapse
scott14719 said:
Like I said, if you don't care about changing or modding your phone than it doesn't matter, but if you are here at XDA in the first place, it means you DO want to do things to your phone and therefore, there is no excuse for not knowing about the updates, what to do or not to do with them, and how to prevent them if needed. The only reason for this is not reading.
...take responsibility for it!
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..
scott14719 said:
..
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I come here once and awhile, not in my wildest dreams did I expect a forced over the air update to come, even apple doesn't pull that...so people who like to have a rooted phone does not mean they frequent this site often
ACardAttack said:
I come here once and awhile, not in my wildest dreams did I expect a forced over the air update to come, even apple doesn't pull that...so people who like to have a rooted phone does not mean they frequent this site often
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Click to collapse
I agree that it is a crappy tactic from AT&T, but the fact that your phone updated is completely your fault. The XDA rules state, "To search before you post". That is the first thing you should do when coming here for any information. The second thing is to read the "pinned" threads in the General and Q & A sections. It doesn't matter if you come here for something once or 100 times, it is still your responsibility to do so. What happens to your phone is ONLY your responsibility. Some things can not be fixed, changed, or controlled. The phone updating is not one of those things. Your phone auto- updated because you did not learn about it being able to do so. If you signed any paperwork with AT&T I guarantee you signed a waver that said they can and will modify your software at any time with or without any further consent. It's your fault if you didn't read it.
There are plenty of people around here that were born with the same knowledge about phones, and Android, and Modding that you and I were born with. But those people (and myself) took the time to learn about their phones and took responsibility for what they wanted to do to their phones. They didn't come to XDA, ignore all of the rules, and make a user account just to ask a question about something they did wrong to start with. Instead, they came here, read the rules, agreed to them, made a user account, and proceeded to search, read, and learn about their device. Many of them then went on to start modifying and developing so others could benefit from their time and actions. Not everyone achieves that level of knowledge but everyone IS expected to follow the rules, search, read, and learn. In other words, like I said, there are no excuses. Everything involving what has or will happen to your phone is your (and only your) responsibility. Just like it is for everyone else and their phone.
one of the first things I do after rooting a device is to freeze all the bloat AND any ota or updates. when an update starts to come , immediately hit airplane mode and don't disable it until figuring out how to kill the update.
don't play the modding game without fully understanding what you're doing.
Russ77 said:
one of the first things I do after rooting a device is to freeze all the bloat AND any ota or updates. when an update starts to come , immediately hit airplane mode and don't disable it until figuring out how to kill the update.
don't play the modding game without fully understanding what you're doing.
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Click to collapse
With the MF3 update.. It seems the 3 Required apps to freeze the OTA are not all there. 1 Of them has a different name under my phone. It seems to be now listed as AllShare Cast Dongle S/W. Can someone confirm that this is indeed the third piece of the puzzle to freeze updates? Has this any affect to AllShare feature?
I tried searching around, but everything seems to point to only blocking the update prior to MF3. Nothing notes the new changes. And I guess is there any real point in stopping the next update? Seeing as LOKI is the only real(no limitations) solution to the bootloader lock?
Is there anyone working on the bootloader for MF3?
Thanks!
scott14719 said:
I agree that it is a crappy tactic from AT&T, but the fact that your phone updated is completely your fault. The XDA rules state, "To search before you post". That is the first thing you should do when coming here for any information. The second thing is to read the "pinned" threads in the General and Q & A sections. It doesn't matter if you come here for something once or 100 times, it is still your responsibility to do so. What happens to your phone is ONLY your responsibility. Some things can not be fixed, changed, or controlled. The phone updating is not one of those things. Your phone auto- updated because you did not learn about it being able to do so. If you signed any paperwork with AT&T I guarantee you signed a waver that said they can and will modify your software at any time with or without any further consent. It's your fault if you didn't read it.
There are plenty of people around here that were born with the same knowledge about phones, and Android, and Modding that you and I were born with. But those people (and myself) took the time to learn about their phones and took responsibility for what they wanted to do to their phones. They didn't come to XDA, ignore all of the rules, and make a user account just to ask a question about something they did wrong to start with. Instead, they came here, read the rules, agreed to them, made a user account, and proceeded to search, read, and learn about their device. Many of them then went on to start modifying and developing so others could benefit from their time and actions. Not everyone achieves that level of knowledge but everyone IS expected to follow the rules, search, read, and learn. In other words, like I said, there are no excuses. Everything involving what has or will happen to your phone is your (and only your) responsibility. Just like it is for everyone else and their phone.
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Click to collapse
I disagree it is the users fault. Mine did the same thing. By the time I left the store mine was already updating on its own. It's not like you can root while you are at the store. I have rooted every Android I have owned but never had a device update on its own until this S4.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk now Free
jdog_12345 said:
I disagree it is the users fault. Mine did the same thing. By the time I left the store mine was already updating on its own. It's not like you can root while you are at the store. I have rooted every Android I have owned but never had a device update on its own until this S4.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk now Free
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It's difficult to predict a phone updating before you leave the store you bought it at. That is probably one of the few excuses that would be legitimate. It's still your responsibility to research the phone before you buy to see what it might or might not do, but even then it's difficult to do anything about it that quickly. It was posted several times to not put the sim card into the phone before you could take steps to prevent the update but sometimes it's just not possible. Blaming it on "other" phones you have had not auto-updating is just an excuse. This isn't those other phones and it is / was still your responsibility to research and learn about THIS phone before you took ownership. It is simply no one else's fault that you didn't read and learn. You might feel like you didn't need to or shouldn't have to but that doesn't change the fact that the information was out there, you just didn't seek it. However, like I said, even if you would have, it still might have been difficult to stop it in your particular situation.
Most people (99.9%) of people that throw around excuses are solely to blame for the phone updating (or anything else that happens to it). It is completely their responsibility, they just want to blame someone or something else. Using, "I didn't know" or ,"Who would expect the phone to do that", as an excuse when as much information exists about it as does, is just an attempt at not taking responsibility. Some people take responsibility for their actions and have no trouble stepping up and admitting something happened because of their actions or lack there-of. Others, always want to blame someone else.
If anyone is keeping score I am one of the (apparently rare) folks who reads this forum but has no intention of rooting or modding or hacking etc my phone.
But thanks to this forum I learned which of the att and Samsung apps I could safely disable.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda app-developers app
scott14719 said:
Most people (99.9%) of people that throw around excuses are solely to blame for the phone updating (or anything else that happens to it). It is completely their responsibility, they just want to blame someone or something else. Using, "I didn't know" or ,"Who would expect the phone to do that", as an excuse when as much information exists about it as does, is just an attempt at not taking responsibility. Some people take responsibility for their actions and have no trouble stepping up and admitting something happened because of their actions or lack there-of. Others, always want to blame someone else.
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Its not like an iphone where you have to tell it to update, it just happened, I had an iphone for 4 years, never once did I update until there was a jailbreak and I know I can't be the only one, I rooted, tried a few custom roms, didnt like them and never came back to this site until my phone updated itself. So I'd just get off your high horse because well putting down people to make one feel better isn't a great trait to have.
There will be NO 4.3 update for ATT before the INTL peeps get it, I am telling you now, att will not have one till way after the 1st of the year....
That ATT rep is full of .....need I say more...
Is it silly to hope this update will provide a pathway to re-unlocking the boot loader?
If so, I'll update, if not, I'll hold off. *le sigh*
It has been stated over and over again that the security hole was patched. 4.4 is even more secure. People need to stop asking about unlocking, it's getting old.
Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk
RikRong said:
It has been stated over and over again that the security hole was patched. 4.4 is even more secure. People need to stop asking about unlocking, it's getting old.
Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
So, thanks for your asinine, non responsive reply. The question was whether the update could provide a pathway to unlocking. I assure you I am more familiar with the situation of the boot loader than you are. Acceptable answers would include
1. Yes
2. Yes because blah blah blah
3. No
4. No because blah blah blah
It has already been debated that the update could possibly include a change to the boot loader that could be exploited. Since there are those that are more knowledgeable than me and are able to give actual answers, I shall ask you to have a good day, sir.
brownrt said:
So, thanks for your asinine, non responsive reply. The question was whether the update could provide a pathway to unlocking. I assure you I am more familiar with the situation of the boot loader than you are. Acceptable answers would include
1. Yes
2. Yes because blah blah blah
3. No
4. No because blah blah blah
It has already been debated that the update could possibly include a change to the boot loader that could be exploited. Since there are those that are more knowledgeable than me and are able to give actual answers, I shall ask you to have a good day, sir.
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Click to collapse
It's just because this question gets asked over and over and over again. A little bit of searching will pretty much explain how this was an exploit, not an actual path to unlocking the bootloader. Once this was patched and fixed, the hopes of finding another exploit to unlock the bootloader on a phone that was not meant to have it's bootloader unlocked, were pretty much gone. Dan, who found the exploit, had done a LOT of exploring that took a lot of time, trial and error, etc. It wasn't an easy exploit that just showed up all of a sudden. The same goes for getting root. It's not an easy thing to get. As each patch comes out for Android, more and more exploits are patched. it's just part of the business to make the OS more secure.
Going to KK, as explained in the previous posters comments, pretty much makes it possible only if pigs fly. KK is more secure than JB and as each iteration of Android comes to being, it means it becomes more and more secure, which means less exploits to find to gain root. This also means, unless they reintroduce a new exploit (highly unlikely), then don't hold your breath for an unlocked bootloader as well.
If you're more aware of the situation than I, why did you ask about it? I meant no disrespect, but it has been frustrating seeing many people come in and asking about the BL, almost a year after the OTA was released to lock it back up. If you think KK will offer you a path to unlocking, then I invite you to go through the Moto X and S5 forums and see how much trouble they're having even attaining root.
iBolski said:
It's just because this question gets asked over and over and over again. A little bit of searching will pretty much explain how this was an exploit, not an actual path to unlocking the bootloader. Once this was patched and fixed, the hopes of finding another exploit to unlock the bootloader on a phone that was not meant to have it's bootloader unlocked, were pretty much gone. Dan, who found the exploit, had done a LOT of exploring that took a lot of time, trial and error, etc. It wasn't an easy exploit that just showed up all of a sudden. The same goes for getting root. It's not an easy thing to get. As each patch comes out for Android, more and more exploits are patched. it's just part of the business to make the OS more secure.
Going to KK, as explained in the previous posters comments, pretty much makes it possible only if pigs fly. KK is more secure than JB and as each iteration of Android comes to being, it means it becomes more and more secure, which means less exploits to find to gain root. This also means, unless they reintroduce a new exploit (highly unlikely), then don't hold your breath for an unlocked bootloader as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see no pigs flying.
RikRong said:
It has been stated over and over again that the security hole was patched. 4.4 is even more secure. People need to stop asking about unlocking, it's getting old.
Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See how asinine you were now?
brownrt said:
See how asinine you were now?
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Click to collapse
just run and do it they were helping you to the best of there knowledge at the time
billycar11 said:
just run and do it they were helping you to the best of there knowledge at the time
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Feel free to explain to me what was helpful about their replies to the OP?
brownrt said:
Feel free to explain to me what was helpful about their replies to the OP?
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Click to collapse
they were right at the time and now things have changed the community as a whole was just really annoyed about getting the same question so much so they were frustrated and i know users who missed out were even more frustrated with not being able to do what they want with there phones so don't take your frustration out on people who were trying to tell you the right answer at the time , take it out on your boot loader and unlock it yayayayay
brownrt said:
Feel free to explain to me what was helpful about their replies to the OP?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Feel free to explain to me what was helpful about your posts?
brownrt said:
I don't see no pigs flying.
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Click to collapse
brownrt said:
See how asinine you were now?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Past has shown that as old as these phones are, a new root exploit, when all others have been patched, never occurs.
What just happened was luck:
Someone was working on a root exploit not specific to this phone AND you got lucky that it worked for the RAZR HD/MAXX/M.
You got REAL lucky with Motorola basically screwing up and re-introducing the bootloader unlock exploit. This was patched with version 9.18 last year and has been unavailable since then. THIS was dumb luck, period. Well, dumb on the part of Motorola for somehow falling back to the old code that is located on a protected zone of the phone. This was the ONLY way it could have be re-introduced and this RARELY happens, so again, dumb luck.
However, there is another OTA coming (I was just emailed asking to participate in it yesterday). I'm pretty sure it will fix the Towelroot exploit (all 2013 phones running 4.4.2 as well as any 4.4.2 kernel whose date is >= 6/3/2014 disallow the Towelroot exploit) as well as the bootloader exploit.
So, now is your chance to root and unlock the bootloader and it's high time everyone takes advantage of this because we will get the same questions, over and over again when the next OTA comes out.
Our main point, as has been stated, was if people would just search and read, rather than being lazy and just asking the same question that has already been asked a hundred times before, they would find their answer a lot quicker and the rest of us who have been helping so many other people would not feel we would have to rehash the same answer again. It's like being in class, the teacher explains something, and then 10 other people raise their hand and ask the teacher about the exact thing the teacher just went over, so now the teacher has to stop class, explain it again, and then 10 more kids raise their hands and ask the same, exact question. It pollutes the forums with the same questions and then the same answers.
We weren't being mean about saying no root, but what just happened was pure luck, especially with the bootloader unlock.
BTW, I think I did see a pig fly in Minecraft yesterday, so I guess they did fly which makes sense. :laugh:
In the end, we are all very happy for those that have locked bootloaders because now, they can root and then unlock this phone. But, they need to do it NOW before the next OTA comes out. And I can guarantee you that those who fail to do it will be back on here asking the same question over and over again. So, let's spread the word and beg and plead that these people root their phones now and unlock the bootloader so that when the next OTA comes out in the next couple of weeks, they won't have to worry about another root exploit, if at all.
Again, those with locked bootloaders got real lucky.
As far as warranty goes, who cares. The phone is old (18+ months) and most people who have turned in their locked phones for warranty have gotten their replacement without having to pay anything, so the company will accept them and they don't charge for it. Besides, would you rather have an unlocked phone knowing you can have root no matter what the next OTA does or do you want to wait and have to do an exploit? Sideloading is SO much easier and just requires a reboot into a custom recovery (like TWRP) and then you do an "adb sideload" and you reboot and your done. Pretty easy, no muss, no fuss.
billycar11 said:
they were right at the time and now things have changed the community as a whole was just really annoyed about getting the same question so much so they were frustrated and i know users who missed out were even more frustrated with not being able to do what they want with there phones so don't take your frustration out on people who were trying to tell you the right answer at the time , take it out on your boot loader and unlock it yayayayay
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Being annoyed by the question is not the same as the quest. In fact the question had not been asked before.
killrhythm09 said:
Feel free to explain to me what was helpful about your posts?
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Click to collapse
It wasn't a post. It was a question. Questions are not meant to help anyone but the asker. Being that I was the asker and people that had no idea about actual development decided to answer, I am in fact the best person do judge whether or not they were helpful.
iBolski said:
Past has shown that as old as these phones are, a new root exploit, when all others have been patched, never occurs.
What just happened was luck:
Someone was working on a root exploit not specific to this phone AND you got lucky that it worked for the RAZR HD/MAXX/M.
You got REAL lucky with Motorola basically screwing up and re-introducing the bootloader unlock exploit. This was patched with version 9.18 last year and has been unavailable since then. THIS was dumb luck, period. Well, dumb on the part of Motorola for somehow falling back to the old code that is located on a protected zone of the phone. This was the ONLY way it could have be re-introduced and this RARELY happens, so again, dumb luck.
However, there is another OTA coming (I was just emailed asking to participate in it yesterday). I'm pretty sure it will fix the Towelroot exploit (all 2013 phones running 4.4.2 as well as any 4.4.2 kernel whose date is >= 6/3/2014 disallow the Towelroot exploit) as well as the bootloader exploit.
So, now is your chance to root and unlock the bootloader and it's high time everyone takes advantage of this because we will get the same questions, over and over again when the next OTA comes out.
Our main point, as has been stated, was if people would just search and read, rather than being lazy and just asking the same question that has already been asked a hundred times before, they would find their answer a lot quicker and the rest of us who have been helping so many other people would not feel we would have to rehash the same answer again. It's like being in class, the teacher explains something, and then 10 other people raise their hand and ask the teacher about the exact thing the teacher just went over, so now the teacher has to stop class, explain it again, and then 10 more kids raise their hands and ask the same, exact question. It pollutes the forums with the same questions and then the same answers.
We weren't being mean about saying no root, but what just happened was pure luck, especially with the bootloader unlock.
BTW, I think I did see a pig fly in Minecraft yesterday, so I guess they did fly which makes sense. :laugh:
In the end, we are all very happy for those that have locked bootloaders because now, they can root and then unlock this phone. But, they need to do it NOW before the next OTA comes out. And I can guarantee you that those who fail to do it will be back on here asking the same question over and over again. So, let's spread the word and beg and plead that these people root their phones now and unlock the bootloader so that when the next OTA comes out in the next couple of weeks, they won't have to worry about another root exploit, if at all.
Again, those with locked bootloaders got real lucky.
As far as warranty goes, who cares. The phone is old (18+ months) and most people who have turned in their locked phones for warranty have gotten their replacement without having to pay anything, so the company will accept them and they don't charge for it. Besides, would you rather have an unlocked phone knowing you can have root no matter what the next OTA does or do you want to wait and have to do an exploit? Sideloading is SO much easier and just requires a reboot into a custom recovery (like TWRP) and then you do an "adb sideload" and you reboot and your done. Pretty easy, no muss, no fuss.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First off, my phone was an insurance replacement, not a **** up "oops I accidentally updated"
But I have to ask you, when you decided to answer originally, did you actual contemplate the question? Or did you assume that it was the same that had been asked before? I assure you that if you had thought about it, you would have considered the plausibility of an answer other than no. (yes and maybe being the alternatives). The post didn't ask you how to do it. And also, EXACTLY what would the OP search for to find an answer. KitKat was still in Soak Test at the time of the OP, but the all knowing non developers seemed to have the answer (this seems unacceptable). I think if the question had been pondered by the respondents they would have realized the question had not been asked before.
1. Historically, new root an boot loader exploits have been found AFTER an update has been released.
2. Historically there has not been a phone that jumped an entire cycle of updates to a new release. And that is hundreds of phones over many OSs over many iterations.
3. The idea that it was plausible should have been at the forefront of peoples minds, because the boot loader was required to be changed. There have been many posts about the nature of root being changed in kitkat. So the jump would absolutely open up risk to exploit.
4. Google wants devices to be open. Did no one think it was plausible that the exploit would be reintroduced after the hand off to Lenovo?
So I ask again, the present situation not withstanding, do you honestly think that anyone answered my question? A bunch of people tired of reading a similar question, giving the answer to a different question. As a member and contributor to the xda community for quite a while now, I've learned that it's important to actually answer the question that's actually asked and not assume the OP is not fully aware of the question they are asking. Especially if the qualify the question in the first place to differentiate it from the question he knows responders are going to assume the OP is asking. Cheers.
P.S. The idea that any of you were actually being "helpful" is cockypop.
brownrt said:
P.S. The idea that any of you were actually being "helpful" is cockypop.
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Click to collapse
I apologize if it came off gruff, but we have been helpful before, it just gets aggravating when it appears as if someone didn't do their due diligence in doing actual research, especially if when we've answered the same question numerous times.
In the future, I'll work at being more helpful and if it's the same question that I've already answered, maybe instead of going off, I can just wait for someone else to answer, especially if I've already typed the same answer numerous times to other people.
In any case, whether you think it's poppycock or not, we are genuinely happy for everyone that has now had a second chance at unlocking the bootloader with this "mistake" from Motorola. I just hope everyone takes advantage of it.
^^^I won't apologize for appearing "gruff."
brownrt said:
See how asinine you were now?
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Click to collapse
I don't feel asinine, in the least bit. What happened was pure, dumb luck (or someone at Moto "accidentally" putting the TZ back into the KK update). You all also got lucky when someone decided to try out Motopocalypse just for the hell of it. At the time, there was no "path" to the unlock and every experienced dev (I'm no dev) was under the notion this would never happen. Thanks for bringing this up, I always enjoy a good discussion. I was wrong, the devs were wrong, the experts were wrong.
ill just leave this here
im not getting involved in this bickering, ill just say this:
-it took Dan (a security expert by trade) a long time to find the BL unlock. so when he says "it will never happen again", i tend to belive him. therefore "the never going to happen" post by others.
-i highly doubt moto forgot on purpose to apply the known exploit patches, or let us have it back on purpose, so someone over there is probably fired right about now.
-had geohot not found a blanket root, something that is quite rare, there still would be no root as no one is actively trying.
so, however it may have not been worded in the best manner, the assumptions at the time of the op were accurate.
that will be all, as you were....
Deleted...
Leaving Verizon.
Sharpie603 said:
Recently Verizon has shown their true colors. They do NOT want to give us control of a device that we bought and paid for. (That's like buying a radio that only plays Country).
In my eyes. If we pay you monthly then why do you care what we do with our device? We own it right?
However, after days of researching and very knowledgeable co-workers..... The solution is here.
ODIN 3.10. That's Correct. ODIN 3.10 has the ability to look past the locked bootloader and grant access to roll back. This was not made to be public but (Thank GOD) was leaked on Aug 26th.
You can download ODIN 3.10 here: http://www.theandroidsoul.com/download/download-odin-3-10-6/
I have not yet tried to root after rolling back to the BOA8 Kernel. Anyone want to test this out and let me know if you were able to root after downgrading?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you were able to downgrade from OG5 to OA8, just by using the 3.10 version of ODIN? Has anybody else tried this yet?
scadilla said:
So you were able to downgrade from OG5 to OA8, just by using the 3.10 version of ODIN? Has anybody else tried this yet?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just the Kernel, not the firmware. Which in reality.... Serves no purpose.... The bootloader still remains locked and prevents from downgrading the firmware. However, this method works for downgrading kernels...
I'm still looking into ways to obtain root with a downgraded kernel. Not saying it's possible, but I'm not giving up just yet.
Sharpie603 said:
Just the Kernel, not the firmware. Which in reality.... Serves no purpose.... The bootloader still remains locked and prevents from downgrading the firmware. However, this method works for downgrading kernels...
I'm still looking into ways to obtain root with a downgraded kernel. Not saying it's possible, but I'm not giving up just yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm definitely following this thread!!! Thanks for the info Sharpie603!!! Man... I really hope you're successful!!! I'm ROOTing for you! (Pun intended! Damn I'm funny! No?!?! Anyone???) LOL
Sharpie603 said:
Just the Kernel, not the firmware. Which in reality.... Serves no purpose.... The bootloader still remains locked and prevents from downgrading the firmware. However, this method works for downgrading kernels...
I'm still looking into ways to obtain root with a downgraded kernel. Not saying it's possible, but I'm not giving up just yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, OK, that makes sense so the thinking is if you are on OG5 with the locked bootloader that you could downgrade the kernel and then root. I'll be following closely as well.
scadilla said:
Ah, OK, that makes sense so the thinking is if you are on OG5 with the locked bootloader that you could downgrade the kernel and then root. I'll be following closely as well.
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Click to collapse
Not looking very promising.
Can you downgrade APNHLOS?
Terribly misleading title. OE1 and OG5 didn't do anything about locking the kernel, they were bootloader locks. As you said, unless you can downgrade which you can't. The only way this would be useful is if we could get root by only downgrading the kernel, which we cannot. We could access safestrap if we HAD root access, because we could flash the NI2 kernel to get access, but no root = no safestrap.
I don't think you made a discovery, I think you just came across what wasn't stated bluntly, simply because it wasn't necessary information to tell people. As for your quest to find a way to root.... I'm just going to say, have fun.
In regards to the OP's statement - Verizon could care less about the rooting community and allowing you to do what you want with your "owned" devices. Verizon and AT&T locked the phones down tight as they should because this is a portable personal computer with all your financial information being transferred back and forth. Tightening the security of the phone against hackers trying to steal all your information and identity had the unfortunate side effect of making root near impossible currently. The device performs exactly as advertised on the box and in the specifications. Your analogy of a radio stuck on country is a poor one. Think more like you bought a car and it will not go 200 miles an hour. There is nothing preventing you from purchasing a car that can, or replacing the engine to do so which would have other downfalls such as gas mileage going to crap. In the same analogy you can purchase a T-Mobile motherboard, swap it out, be able to root, but not get certain LTE bands. Verizon has not targeted you at all...you can blame the hackers constantly trying to get information off the phones. Verizon and AT&T took steps to try to prevent that and of course increase profits by being rated the most secure phones out there. Verizon never gave you the keys to root...ever! So they are not keeping this info from you. Just like every device that took a little time to find root, it is up to you and the developers to find away around it.
This is the same as saying Acme safe company is trying to keep you from being rich because they made their safes more secure.
Spartan117H3 said:
Terribly misleading title. OE1 and OG5 didn't do anything about locking the kernel, they were bootloader locks. As you said, unless you can downgrade which you can't. The only way this would be useful is if we could get root by only downgrading the kernel, which we cannot. We could access safestrap if we HAD root access, because we could flash the NI2 kernel to get access, but no root = no safestrap.
I don't think you made a discovery, I think you just came across what wasn't stated bluntly, simply because it wasn't necessary information to tell people. As for your quest to find a way to root.... I'm just going to say, have fun.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The title is not misleading at all. It does exactly what I described. Gives you the ability to downgrade the Kernel. and the Kernel only. I clearly mentioned this in post #3 that this still leaves the bootloader locked. then in later posts went on to mention that it looks like we are still SOL. Take it how you want, sorry for actively trying to find a solution...
KennyG123 said:
In regards to the OP's statement - Verizon could care less about the rooting community and allowing you to do what you want with your "owned" devices. Verizon and AT&T locked the phones down tight as they should because this is a portable personal computer with all your financial information being transferred back and forth. Tightening the security of the phone against hackers trying to steal all your information and identity had the unfortunate side effect of making root near impossible currently. The device performs exactly as advertised on the box and in the specifications. Your analogy of a radio stuck on country is a poor one. Think more like you bought a car and it will not go 200 miles an hour. There is nothing preventing you from purchasing a car that can, or replacing the engine to do so which would have other downfalls such as gas mileage going to crap. In the same analogy you can purchase a T-Mobile motherboard, swap it out, be able to root, but not get certain LTE bands. Verizon has not targeted you at all...you can blame the hackers constantly trying to get information off the phones. Verizon and AT&T took steps to try to prevent that and of course increase profits by being rated the most secure phones out there. Verizon never gave you the keys to root...ever! So they are not keeping this info from you. Just like every device that took a little time to find root, it is up to you and the developers to find away around it.
This is the same as saying Acme safe company is trying to keep you from being rich because they made their safes more secure.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not worried about my phone being hacked. I have nothing to hide. I do not bank online or make purchases online. If there is fraudulent activity on my bank account, my credit union will inform me. This is besides the fact. I could care less if I made a "bad" analogy. I'm not sitting here thinking "Hmmm I wonder if anyone will have a problem with this statement" when writing up a comment. Your paragraph is nothing but slander "Something XDA strongly discourages". A simple "I don't think this will work, and here's why" would of been suffice.
On a side note. I'm leaving Verizon so you won't have to worry about me trying to find root and help you guys out anymore.
Sharpie603 said:
The title is not misleading at all. It does exactly what I described. Gives you the ability to downgrade the Kernel. and the Kernel only. I clearly mentioned this in post #3 that this still leaves the bootloader locked. then in later posts went on to mention that it looks like we are still SOL. Take it how you want, sorry for actively trying to find a solution...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is misleading because you mark it as solved as if it was a puzzle that nobody else can figured out, like you had new information to provide. If I'm not mistaken, the kernel was never locked, and you can use any Odin to push a different kernel. It was never a question if the kernel was locked. So you didn't do anything except state what was redundant. The people who confirm that the bootloader is locked say so because it means you can't downgrade. They didn't say you can still downgrade the kernel because it's absolutely meaningless. That's like saying, the bootloader is locked, but you can still Odin and flash any file you want even if it doesn't work.
There are countless people like you in other threads who claim they're trying to find a way to root. Neither you nor I are smart enough to come up with an exploit, as I have detailed countless times before. So why don't we leave that up to the developers?
Sharpie603 said:
I'm not worried about my phone being hacked. I have nothing to hide. I do not bank online or make purchases online. If there is fraudulent activity on my bank account, my credit union will inform me. This is besides the fact. I could care less if I made a "bad" analogy. I'm not sitting here thinking "Hmmm I wonder if anyone will have a problem with this statement" when writing up a comment. Your paragraph is nothing but slander "Something XDA strongly discourages". A simple "I don't think this will work, and here's why" would of been suffice.
On a side note. I'm leaving Verizon so you won't have to worry about me trying to find root and help you guys out anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It doesn't matter if you don't care yourself, because you are not everyone. You are a single person. If you were everyone, obviously Verizon wouldn't make money off you, and wouldn't secure their phones. But this is flawed reasoning yet again.
A bad analogy shows you have flawed reasoning. It doesn't matter if you care or not, you don't have a problem with stating things that don't make sense, then by all means, continue (which I don't even have to say, because you do indeed continue).
Slander? Are you serious? You acknowledge the reason for his post, which claims you have a bad analogy, and explains why Verizon does what it does. Then you make an insane, baseless claim that says xda discourages root. Yet XDA was where the original root method was released in detail, with the newsworthy 18k bouty.
Why does he need to explain why it wouldn't work, when you yourself have already done that? It's the same when you responded to me. You answer your own question but then argue against people when they confirm with your latter findings that it doesn't work?
I don't understand why people like you are so happy to see 1 posters support you, but then immediately get hostile when anyone with any knowledge comes in to speak. You running from Verizon doesn't solve any problems and shows you weren't invested to begin with, which is fine, since you wouldn't have accomplished anything anyway. Unless you're claiming to be smarter than those who found the original root.
You want to know why it won't work? All these people have similar ideas to yours, they either want root, or want to "try" with little to no knowledge at all about what they are doing.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=62378933&postcount=19
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=62380538&postcount=23
http://forum.xda-developers.com/verizon-galaxy-s5/help/vz-replacement-s5-oe1-t3190365
http://forum.xda-developers.com/ver...g5-verizon-t3192598/post62746265#post62746265
Spartan117H3 said:
It is misleading because you mark it as solved as if it was a puzzle that nobody else can figured out, like you had new information to provide. If I'm not mistaken, the kernel was never locked, and you can use any Odin to push a different kernel. It was never a question if the kernel was locked. So you didn't do anything except state what was redundant. The people who confirm that the bootloader is locked say so because it means you can't downgrade. They didn't say you can still downgrade the kernel because it's absolutely meaningless. That's like saying, the bootloader is locked, but you can still Odin and flash any file you want even if it doesn't work.
There are countless people like you in other threads who claim they're trying to find a way to root. Neither you nor I are smart enough to come up with an exploit, as I have detailed countless times before. So why don't we leave that up to the developers?
It doesn't matter if you don't care yourself, because you are not everyone. You are a single person. If you were everyone, obviously Verizon wouldn't make money off you, and wouldn't secure their phones. But this is flawed reasoning yet again.
A bad analogy shows you have flawed reasoning. It doesn't matter if you care or not, you don't have a problem with stating things that don't make sense, then by all means, continue (which I don't even have to say, because you do indeed continue).
Slander? Are you serious? You acknowledge the reason for his post, which claims you have a bad analogy, and explains why Verizon does what it does. Then you make an insane, baseless claim that says xda discourages root. Yet XDA was where the original root method was released in detail, with the newsworthy 18k bouty.
Why does he need to explain why it wouldn't work, when you yourself have already done that? It's the same when you responded to me. You answer your own question but then argue against people when they confirm with your latter findings that it doesn't work?
I don't understand why people like you are so happy to see 1 posters support you, but then immediately get hostile when anyone with any knowledge comes in to speak. You running from Verizon doesn't solve any problems and shows you weren't invested to begin with, which is fine, since you wouldn't have accomplished anything anyway. Unless you're claiming to be smarter than those who found the original root.
You want to know why it won't work? All these people have similar ideas to yours, they either want root, or want to "try" with little to no knowledge at all about what they are doing.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=62378933&postcount=19
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=62380538&postcount=23
http://forum.xda-developers.com/verizon-galaxy-s5/help/vz-replacement-s5-oe1-t3190365
http://forum.xda-developers.com/ver...g5-verizon-t3192598/post62746265#post62746265
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Click to collapse
Listen I came here thinking I found a way. In no way was trying to start a war among like minded individuals. All you are doing is trying to ream me out for what? For a mistake I made, thinking I had a solution? Way to be professional. Sorry for cluttering the forum. Sorry for everything I have done thus far. Sorry for bothering you sir. Sorry for not being as knowledgeable as you are. I'm sorry for everything! F*ck
Sharpie603 said:
Listen I came here thinking I found a way. In no way was trying to start a war among like minded individuals. All you are doing is trying to ream me out for what? For a mistake I made, thinking I had a solution? Way to be professional. Sorry for cluttering the forum. Sorry for everything I have done thus far. Sorry for bothering you sir. Sorry for not being as knowledgeable as you are. I'm sorry for everything! F*ck
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem is, you just assume things without actually comprehending what people say. That's why you believe this is apparently a war. Ream you out? You miss the entire point, repeatedly. All it is is people telling you why your statements don't make any sense.
Sharpie603 said:
I'm not worried about my phone being hacked. I have nothing to hide. I do not bank online or make purchases online. If there is fraudulent activity on my bank account, my credit union will inform me. This is besides the fact. I could care less if I made a "bad" analogy. I'm not sitting here thinking "Hmmm I wonder if anyone will have a problem with this statement" when writing up a comment. Your paragraph is nothing but slander "Something XDA strongly discourages". A simple "I don't think this will work, and here's why" would of been suffice.
On a side note. I'm leaving Verizon so you won't have to worry about me trying to find root and help you guys out anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As stated that is just YOU. 99.9% of people do not want their phone hacked or their identity stolen.
How is stating the facts slander? And I think I would know best what is encouraged here and what isn't. Now you are just lashing out for no reason and making no sense.
I guess we can close this as you wished. Thanks for trying.