Database Info

Thanks XDA for all your help.

Linky to story
Wow, so we help HTC get to the place they are today (and don't underestimate our contribution) and this is the thanks.
Glad I'm getting a Dell in 2 months.
(Please tell me I misunderstand!)
MOD EDIT: PLEASE MIND THE LANGUAGE YOU USE ON XDA. YOUR TITLE WAS NOT SUITABLE AT ALL. EDITED. PLEASE CONSIDER THIS A WARNING, BREAKING THE RULES AGAIN CAN LEAD TO A VACATION.PLEASE CONTROL YOUR EMOTIONS.

for some reason i feel the opposite towards this.
I am glad that they put a hardware chip that can bring the phone back to factory default settings. They probably did this because so many people had bricked their phones with no real way to get them back up and running so they had to send them in.... This way it should eliminate that whole process....
why this is good?
It will be cracked, and will give modders room to store custom roms or clockwork recovery on this... or.....
A MOD CHIP!!!! imagine a small mod chip that could enable or disable the chip. You muck up your phone, hit the switch... go back to factory defaults.

Reminds me of the old Playstations where I had to go get them chipped to be modded.

First off it was a pretty good read. Personally I would take this as yet another reason to keep up the awesome work done by the fine programmers here on XDA! Give them something else to "access & modify".
All in all, I never got the feeling of "eff off". But then again, that was just me.

What a whiner. Every day I'm more and more disgusted by some of the people on here. What have you personally done to help HTC aside from maybe buy a phone of theirs? What have they done for you? Oh, they gave you a miracle of modern technology. The ability to have a phone in your pocket which is amazing by itself, forget the fact that it can look up maps, browse the internet, play music and videos, etc.
What about people who don't even have phones?
You're sitting here complaining because of issues rooting a phone which YOU DONT EVEN OWN or intend to buy judging from your comments.
Let me also ask you this: Is the ability to root a phone a feature that is advertised or standard on any devices? Are phone manufactures supposed to be supporting this?

deathsled said:
What a whiner. Every day I'm more and more disgusted by some of the people on here. What have you personally done to help HTC aside from maybe buy a phone of theirs? What have they done for you? Oh, they gave you a miracle of modern technology. The ability to have a phone in your pocket which is amazing by itself, forget the fact that it can look up maps, browse the internet, play music and videos, etc.
What about people who don't even have phones?
You're sitting here complaining because of issues rooting a phone which YOU DONT EVEN OWN or intend to buy judging from your comments.
Let me also ask you this: Is the ability to root a phone a feature that is advertised or standard on any devices? Are phone manufactures supposed to be supporting this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wow, you have some issues going on there don't you (Apart from not being able to read)
Pretty much anyone thats posted on here has helped in one way or another, by answering peoples technical queries etc.
Your right, I don't own the phone and I certainly intend NOT to buy one now. I was going to be tempted as I prefer open phones rather than locked down ... but not now. If I'm going to be locked down I may as well get a good one. If your on these boards then you must know that HTC "stock" roms are usualy rubbish. Buy this at your peril.
No it's not an advertised feature but HTC have unofficialy endorsed this site, so they want there cake and eat it?
and what an irrelevant thing to say:
"What about people who don't even have phones?"
Tell ya what, i'll raise ya, what about all the starving people in Africa!
p.s. i've not commited to the Lightning but its certainly the front runner.... unless something else comes out.

deathsled said:
What a whiner. Every day I'm more and more disgusted by some of the people on here. What have you personally done to help HTC aside from maybe buy a phone of theirs? What have they done for you? Oh, they gave you a miracle of modern technology. The ability to have a phone in your pocket which is amazing by itself, forget the fact that it can look up maps, browse the internet, play music and videos, etc.
What about people who don't even have phones?
You're sitting here complaining because of issues rooting a phone which YOU DONT EVEN OWN or intend to buy judging from your comments.
Let me also ask you this: Is the ability to root a phone a feature that is advertised or standard on any devices? Are phone manufactures supposed to be supporting this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Would you be happy if you bought a car and told you you went allowed to mod it or accessorise it? What someone does with their own device is none of anyone elses business INCLUDING the manufacturer and provider. If I buy a sponge cake I should be able to add whatever decorations and icing I want, If I buy a PC I should be able to install whatever OS and programs I want. Is that so hard to understand?

hungry81 said:
Would you be happy if you bought a car and told you you went allowed to mod it or accessorise it? What someone does with their own device is none of anyone elses business INCLUDING the manufacturer and provider. If I buy a sponge cake I should be able to add whatever decorations and icing I want, If I buy a PC I should be able to install whatever OS and programs I want. Is that so hard to understand?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hard to understand? not at all.
also, not true. you can't legally install apple OS on non-apple hardware. you can't legally alter an iphone. you can't legally mod your car with NOS or any number of other things.
there are still laws, and company policy to take into consideration. your argument is furthered by the fact that android is open source - but what that REALLY means is that Android can be thrown on any manufacturers phone with no limitations - NOT that any phone that has android HAS no limitations.
I WISH the world allowed us to do whatever we wanted without ourselves and our possessions, but that is simply not the case.

digibucc said:
hard to understand? not at all.
also, not true. you can't legally install apple OS on non-apple hardware. you can't legally alter an iphone. you can't legally mod your car with NOS or any number of other things.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually you can. You may not be allowed to take it on public roads, but you can do whatever you want with your car on private property as long as it dosent cause injury or damage to others property or other mischief.
digibucc said:
there are still laws, and company policy to take into consideration. your argument is furthered by the fact that android is open source - but what that REALLY means is that Android can be thrown on any manufacturers phone with no limitations - NOT that any phone that has android HAS no limitations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And why should people sit back silently if they dont agree with this? Why should they be able to advertise the good features of the device without anyone mentioning the significant drawbacks?
digibucc said:
I WISH the world allowed us to do whatever we wanted without ourselves and our possessions, but that is simply not the case.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At the moment You CAN do whatever you want with YOUR posessions as long as it does not cause harm or injury to other persons or property. There is no excuse for treating these devices differently. If you feel that flashing is illegal, I would have to ask what you are doing on XDA?

hungry81 said:
Would you be happy if you bought a car and told you you went allowed to mod it or accessorise it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe if I was actually going to buy the car. What if instead I just chose to ***** about a car that I had no plans on buying?

deathsled said:
Maybe if I was actually going to buy the car. What if instead I just chose to ***** about a car that I had no plans on buying?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK -
so first, where did I say I was never interested in this phone? If you care to take a look at my posting history you will see I'm desperate for a phone with a keyboard. (ROM issue aside) I did take a look at this phone but the screen is just a little too small for me and I just don't personaly like Android. If this is your ONLY argument, then you know you really have no argument - move along please, nothing to see here.
Second, you seem to be missing the grand picture. You see all those subforums for each phone right? Pay particular attention to the "ROMs" subforums for EACH phone.... delete them. IF I understand this correctly, none of the new phones (assuming they all employ this) will have cooked ROMs. Why do you think most of us are here? Thats right, because HTC ROMs out of the box are crap... cooked ROMs have certainly saved my use of HTC phones and to be honest, are one of the priamary reasons I would buy a HTC phone (and have!).
Third, if you had any idea what I was talking about you would know that this is not so much about the "phone" itself but the very fact that cooked ROMs will no longer be possible. If it was about the phone, I would have posted it in the G2 section.
So in summary, (and this might be hard for you) please, try to focus on the new "feature" of the phone rather than the phone itself. Also, try to stop assuming facts like I was never going to buy this phone and really, if this is the best discussion point you can bring, please use the "unsubscribe" option - do us all a favour.

Monty Burns said:
wow, you have some issues going on there don't you (Apart from not being able to read)
Pretty much anyone thats posted on here has helped in one way or another, by answering peoples technical queries etc.
Your right, I don't own the phone and I certainly intend NOT to buy one now. I was going to be tempted as I prefer open phones rather than locked down ... but not now. If I'm going to be locked down I may as well get a good one. If your on these boards then you must know that HTC "stock" roms are usualy rubbish. Buy this at your peril.
No it's not an advertised feature but HTC have unofficialy endorsed this site, so they want there cake and eat it?
and what an irrelevant thing to say:
"What about people who don't even have phones?"
Tell ya what, i'll raise ya, what about all the starving people in Africa!
p.s. i've not commited to the Lightning but its certainly the front runner.... unless something else comes out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Death, I'll take your lack of acknowlegdment or response to this post as an appology.
No problem, its OK.

hungry81 said:
If you feel that flashing is illegal, I would have to ask what you are doing on XDA?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Would you, have to?
I don't "feel" it is illegal. I don't believe it is wrong - but they have the legal right to tell me it is. that doesn't mean i won't do it anyway - I just don't lie to myself and say it is allowed... even if I believe that it should be.
there's a difference between recognizing the law and following it. I'm not saying I don't agree, that it sucks that they will lock out ROMs. BUT - I've got my Evo and it will last me for years, so i really don't care.
it's called reality. I'm not arguing that your opinion is wrong - i'm highlighting that it is just your opinion, and in this world they don't mean much.
tell you what though - you go ahead and organize the rally and once you get more than 1,000 people signed up i'll join.
let me know.

Monty Burns said:
MOD EDIT: PLEASE MIND THE LANGUAGE YOU USE ON XDA. YOUR TITLE WAS NOT SUITABLE AT ALL. EDITED. PLEASE CONSIDER THIS A WARNING, BREAKING THE RULES AGAIN CAN LEAD TO A VACATION.PLEASE CONTROL YOUR EMOTIONS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Mr Anon,
I must have missed the bit where I swore....? I remember putting a few **'s in... oh wait, I wasn't swearing there, just pointing out that I used **'s.... er.... um.... oh dear. They are used much like Beeps on tv....
Whatever, its only a forum, gues must be the end of the world to lose access for "beeps"

Heads Up-VERY IMPORTANT INFO!!

This is VERY important information, please read all of it.
LOL I can see I made a mistake by posting this. There's just a bunch of arguing going on and most of you have seemed to disprove s lot of this. I was just relaying the information, maybe I'm too gullible to be here Either way, the information is relevant, but not confirmed by me or anyone, really besides P3droid. I see no reason why he would claim to have this information but just be making stuff up, but who knows. *shrug*
I'm assuming that most of you have seen it by now, but either way, I just felt there was a need to try to get the word out to everyone who might use a custom ROM. Some very disturbing information was brought to light recently by a respected member of the Verizon Droid and Droid X hacking community, known as P3droid. He is a member of Team Black Hat, similar to any development team here. He has made a lot of very important connections as a developer, some within the respective carriers. The information I'm going to share with you mostly pertains to Verizon, but P3droid *specifically* mentions that the implementation is cross-carrier.
My understanding of what's up:
The carriers have been working on an application that runs behind the scenes. The idea behind it is to track what happens on the phone and report back. It can detect unauthorized tethering, root, and custom ROMs. It works by periodically scanning your system partition for modifications, checking to see if your phone's MEID refuses OTA updates, and other unknown methods.
Can't we just remove it?
Sure, but your phone will be flagged by AT&T because the application isn't reporting back. They literally take your phone off of the network and force you to pay the ETF (early termination fee). [brought in to question by the people here, sounds implausible]
What can we do?
Stop tethering for now, I would officially consider it unsafe if you don't want to pay the ETF (maybe) or possibly have your phone flagged by AT&T.
If you want to be on the safe side, revert stock. However, as stated later, this will be very difficult to implement on a GSM network. As of right now, we should be OK, but as I said, better safe than sorry.
If any of your friends have unmodified Captivates, preferably with 2.2 (reverting stock doesn't count), get me a system dump, so I can see if the application in question is there. Directions: Make sure you have the android SDK installed on your computer, you can find it at developer.android.com. Once you have it set up and working, type (for Mac and Linux)
Code:
$ mkdir -p ~/Desktop/app
$ adb pull /system/app ~/Desktop/app
and for Windows,
Code:
cd Desktop
mkdir app
adb pull /system/app "C:\Documents and Settings\[yourusername]\Desktop\app"
Just remember, the Android root community is much bigger than we think. We have some real power. We just need to pull ourselves together and exert it.
What this means for us:
No more root
No more tethering
No more warranty-AT&T will flag your device as bad
Possibly no more connectivity
No more... anything
It is unknown which phones currently have the application preloaded, however it is known that several phones on Verizon have it installed.
Kaik541, a trusted acquaintance of mine pointed out that this would be difficult, if not impossible to implement on a GSM network. It is a very valid point, however I still think that the best plan of action is to proceed with caution.
A quick dialog between P3droid and me:
Have you heard anything about AT&T and unauthorized tethering?
Nothing too specific, just general chatter.
Looks like it's time to stop tethering either way. I'll let all the AT&T guys know, if they don't already
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And finally, hit up the source link for more infos.
http://androidheadlines.com/2011/04/will-rooting-your-android-phone-come-to-an-end.html
and
http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/...otloaders-rooting-manufacturers-carriers.html
For up to date info, follow P3droid on twitter: http://twitter.com/P3droid and me (but mostly P3droid) http://twitter.com/ytt3r.

Reserved as a natural reflex

There were similar stories like this when iOS 3 or 4 was getting ready to come out. Turned out to be a hoax but it did throw up some red flags for me.
Someone needs to take a fine-toothed comb to the user agreements because I really doubt they can legally checkup on your device when they want to, especially without mentioning this software has been added to the device.

I highly doubt this is a hoax. We seriously need to cover ourselves. This is scary stuff.

Glorious Canada!
But in all seriousness, I believe that this can be dealt with. As for tethering, they have every right to kick you off the network if you aren't paying for a tethering plan (yes, tethering plans are a complete money grab, but you are still violating the TOS). For the OTA, we could spoof it, answering the call, downloading the update, then deleting it and reporting updated with out ever updating.

TheEscapist said:
Glorious Canada!
But in all seriousness, I believe that this can be dealt with. As for tethering, they have every right to kick you off the network if you aren't paying for a tethering plan (yes, tethering plans are a complete money grab, but you are still violating the TOS). For the OTA, we could spoof it, answering the call, downloading the update, then deleting it and reporting updated with out ever updating.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Luckily our Rogers Captivates don't do OTA updates! Not yet, anyways.
And Fully agree on the tethering.

We have some very talented people in this community. I, personally, don't know anything about android development. But I do have enough knowledge about development to know that anything can be reversed, tricked, or even stopped. We have the skills, man-power, and will. We'll be okay in the long-run.
I'm not worried.

We need to comb over the TOS and see if they can legally do this.
How would they hide this program?

they can't. I don't think its implemented yet on any gsm phones, but we know for a fact that the leaked gingerbread for droid x has it.

designfears said:
There were similar stories like this when iOS 3 or 4 was getting ready to come out. Turned out to be a hoax but it did throw up some red flags for me.
Someone needs to take a fine-toothed comb to the user agreements because I really doubt they can legally checkup on your device when they want to, especially without mentioning this software has been added to the device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In Canada they have to inform you of changes, from that point you have 30 days to cancel your contract without any penalty, as it is a change of agreement. Not sure if this relates to you US guys and girls,
Also, if they do this, what is to stop you from buying a pay as you go sim card, and using it on your smart phones. The pay as you go plans here in canada have the same options as a contract plan......
So this almost makes no sense....

What a better way to lose a bunch of customers. Doesn't make sense to me either.
You'd think they realize that communities like XDA make having phones like this worthwhile.
Quickest way to kill off the Android platform would be to limit us to the crap roms the carriers put out. I never even thought of an iPhone until I heard this!

I fail to see how they could legally do this. Not to mention forcing an etf will result in people switching networks. No one would put up with that and stay with them.

If this is true, I wonder how hard it would be to hack the app and just have it send back false information.

cappysw10 said:
You'd think they realize that communities like XDA make having phones like this worthwhile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it would be things like side-loading apps or free tethering that they're primarily concerned about.

I wonder if the penalty will only go against giys who get subsidized phones. I buy my phones out right so for that to happen would be off putting.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA Premium App

seems very questionable from a legal standpoint. not sure how they can have anything hidden from a user that buys the phone from them, without actually disclosing that it's on there... without a massive lawsuit anyways.
wonder what google thinks of this?

They can't force a ETF that would be illegal if your not violating your contract i.e. tethering.
I have never tethered at all and would gladly cancel my att contract with paying the etf if this happened. IF ATT wont let me use my phone as I want as long as I am not stealing service I will take my service to a carrier that will END OF STORY.

Does this mean the Communities are a lot larger than we think? I originally thought that we were a small marketplace, and didn't have a major impact on things.
So if the Carriers and manufacturers are investing this kind of time, money and effort into stopping the modifications, We must be causing havoc.......
Still doesn't make sense............

Lucke said:
seems very questionable from a legal standpoint. not sure how they can have anything hidden from a user that buys the phone from them, without actually disclosing that it's on there... without a massive lawsuit anyways.
wonder what google thinks of this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Read the linked threads.......They say Google is helping them.

http://technolog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/04/06/6419016-google-tightens-reins-on-android-
It looks like Google is thinking of locking down also. It would protect us from Carrier modding woes, but what's gonna start happening when they decide not to release source codes....

Carrier IQ

http://www.carrieriq.com/index.htm
I just heard about this and can't believe how little we know we are being spied on. Is this installed on the sensation? If so are there any ROMS which remove it? Am I just digging up old news or what does everybody else know about this?

smockpuv said:
http://www.carrieriq.com/index.htm
I just heard about this and can't believe how little we know we are being spied on. Is this installed on the sensation? If so are there any ROMS which remove it? Am I just digging up old news or what does everybody else know about this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Old news.

No this is not old news at all. This subject is still being looked into and things are coming to light about it more and more. Yes this is very much on the Sensation. Me personally I am glad someone started a thread on it as it is something I feel everyone should be concerned with.
If you want to learn more about it just go to the XDA Portal and type in a search for Carrier IQ, CIQ, or just IQ and you will see there has been several stories in the portal about it and the dev that is trying to bring all of this CIQ BS into the view of the masses.
Also I have not looked to see but I imagen that there is some custom ROMs for the Sensation that has the CIQ removed from it. I beleive any of the CM7 based ROMs do not have it and it may be more you will just have to read the first posts in the thread by the chef that cooked the ROM.

T-Macgnolia said:
No this is not old news at all. This subnet t is still being looked into and things are coming to light about it more and more. Yes this is very much on the Sensation. Me personally I am glad someone started a thread on it as it is something I feel everyone should be concerned with.
If you want to learn more about it just go to the XDA Portal and type in a search for Carrier IQ, CIQ, or just IQ and you will see there has been several stories in the portal about it and the dev that is Beloit.g to bring all of this CIQ BS into the view of the masses.
Also I have not looked to see but I imagen that there is some custom ROMs for the Sensation that has the CIQ removed from it. I beleive any of the CM7 based ROMs do not have it and it may be more you will just have to read the first posts in the thread by the chef that cooked the ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi,
I found that ROM CLEANER does the business of removing all the offending crap.
Worth looking into.

malybru said:
Hi,
I found that ROM CLEANER does the business of removing all the offending crap.
Worth looking into.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The ROM just cleans bloatware and other things in HTC Sense to help the ROM run smoother. All devices have this CIQ on them, it is not an app but several things that are hidden deep in the ROM and has to be cooked out of the ROM. ASOP ROMs do not have it. Go read this article by azrienoch on it. Make sure to click on the links in the article too then you will have a better understanding of what I mean. You will also see why it is such a big deal.

Update to the current Carrier IQ fiasco with video proof
http://m.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/11/secret-software-logging-video/
Separate link for the youtube video for easier access.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T17XQI_AYNo&feature=youtube_gdata_player
In the T-Mobile galaxy s 2 forums the carrier IQ the is in the kernel is that where it is in sensation? I can't find any of the know names in my wife's phone.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using xda premium

i just had the word with the guy who made the video and he told me that this only affect u.s.a people and this doesn't affect anyone living in eurpoe so if you live in uk, ireland and other part of eurpoe than you are fine.

I'm in the US and i read this over and over, and to be honest i can give to giggles of a squirting crap bout this, everyone takes this out of proportion and think its end of the world cause something in there is loggin your keys,
ITS IN EVERYTHING!! get over it already, its in your game consoles, in your laptops, in your PCS, just deal with it nothing you can do or say will change this
and lot of you will say no its not, BUT IT IS! think bout all the times your send a report of a crash on a pc or anything, deeping read ToS on consoles all have tracker/logger

ilostchild said:
I'm in the US and i read this over and over, and to be honest i can give to giggles of a squirting crap bout this, everyone takes this out of proportion and think its end of the world cause something in there is loggin your keys,
ITS IN EVERYTHING!! get over it already, its in your game consoles, in your laptops, in your PCS, just deal with it nothing you can do or say will change this
and lot of you will say no its not, BUT IT IS! think bout all the times your send a report of a crash on a pc or anything, deeping read ToS on consoles all have tracker/logger
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, because tracking software is being put on many devices we use every day, we should not worry about it?
Perhaps if consumers were made more aware of things like this, they could stem the tide of invasive technology.
Sent from my Sensation using xda premium

ilostchild said:
I'm in the US and i read this over and over, and to be honest i can give to giggles of a squirting crap bout this, everyone takes this out of proportion and think its end of the world cause something in there is loggin your keys,
ITS IN EVERYTHING!! get over it already, its in your game consoles, in your laptops, in your PCS, just deal with it nothing you can do or say will change this
and lot of you will say no its not, BUT IT IS! think bout all the times your send a report of a crash on a pc or anything, deeping read ToS on consoles all have tracker/logger
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
CIQ is definitely a whole new species of logging software, put onto your device by your friendly network operator.
I dare to say that there is absolutely no comparable spying software case so far. If you´d have fully studied about the software this thread is mentioning, you most probably would not have written your statement.
A key logger which records *everything* you type without encryption? A key logger which reads your SMS/test message even before you read it? Come on. This kind of stuff is *definitely" not "in everything". It may be in all network operator subsidized mobile phones (not only Android, but also Nokia and Blackberry affected) in the USA - but definitely not here in Europe.
Here, we actually have laws against such software - especially if it´s distributed by large organizations like network operators, this could result in multi-billion dollar fines. People here in Europe are not wiser, but they tend to fight a bit more against "big brother" who might be "watching you".

tictac0566 said:
CIQ is definitely a whole new species of logging software, put onto your device by your friendly network operator.
I dare to say that there is absolutely no comparable spying software case so far. If you´d have fully studied about the software this thread is mentioning, you most probably would not have written your statement.
A key logger which records *everything* you type without encryption? A key logger which reads your SMS/test message even before you read it? Come on. This kind of stuff is *definitely" not "in everything". It may be in all network operator subsidized mobile phones (not only Android, but also Nokia and Blackberry affected) in the USA - but definitely not here in Europe.
Here, we actually have laws against such software - especially if it´s distributed by large organizations like network operators, this could result in multi-billion dollar fines. People here in Europe are not wiser, but they tend to fight a bit more against "big brother" who might be "watching you".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i know what it does, and i still stand on my statement, as you and i type every letter on our keyboard it si being key logged to thats the sad truth of this an everything, no matter how you look or want to make aware to anyone its still exist and as technology grows so will this.. so either cry and complain bout it everytime some like this comes up or just say i know the fact im being watched but what else more can i do.. cause there is nothing you can do.. your normal house phones are being logged, not lot know this but there is KEY words that if you say in a conversation it picks up and sends a alert to the proper authorities..
its something to look and jus get over...
Also think bout it, when something goes truly bad, say a murder uses a phone officials can pick up they logging of calls and texts and read them back, so this loggin has been around for awhile so i dont understand why its becoming sucha big deal when its been around

ilostchild said:
i know what it does, and i still stand on my statement, as you and i type every letter on our keyboard it si being key logged to thats the sad truth of this an everything, no matter how you look or want to make aware to anyone its still exist and as technology grows so will this.. so either cry and complain bout it everytime some like this comes up or just say i know the fact im being watched but what else more can i do.. cause there is nothing you can do.. your normal house phones are being logged, not lot know this but there is KEY words that if you say in a conversation it picks up and sends a alert to the proper authorities..
its something to look and jus get over...
Also think bout it, when something goes truly bad, say a murder uses a phone officials can pick up they logging of calls and texts and read them back, so this loggin has been around for awhile so i dont understand why its becoming sucha big deal when its been around
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wonder how this affects the speed and responsiveness of the phone's OS?

ilostchild said:
i know what it does, and i still stand on my statement, as you and i type every letter on our keyboard it si being key logged to thats the sad truth of this an everything, no matter how you look or want to make aware to anyone its still exist and as technology grows so will this.. so either cry and complain bout it everytime some like this comes up or just say i know the fact im being watched but what else more can i do.. cause there is nothing you can do.. your normal house phones are being logged, not lot know this but there is KEY words that if you say in a conversation it picks up and sends a alert to the proper authorities..
its something to look and jus get over...
Also think bout it, when something goes truly bad, say a murder uses a phone officials can pick up they logging of calls and texts and read them back, so this loggin has been around for awhile so i dont understand why its becoming sucha big deal when its been around
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes that is true what you said but most people already know that cops can get your records from a phone company with a search warrant depending on how long that company keeps those records.
This is deferent, a third party collecting all information of what you do on your phone without your consent or knowledge is wrong. This company is also not the government so what right do they have without your consent.
Yes on a console, a PC, and1st and 2nd party apps on your phone you give consent for them to use various monitoring techniques but you have a choice, here with carrier IQ you are not giving that choice it is there and you have to use a crowbar to get it out of your phone.
I'm no fanatic but I do believe in the constitution. It is your right to give away your privacy but it is not for someone else to take it away from you.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using xda premium

ilostchild said:
i know what it does, and i still stand on my statement, as you and i type every letter on our keyboard it si being key logged to thats the sad truth of this an everything, no matter how you look or want to make aware to anyone its still exist and as technology grows so will this.. so either cry and complain bout it everytime some like this comes up or just say i know the fact im being watched but what else more can i do.. cause there is nothing you can do.. your normal house phones are being logged, not lot know this but there is KEY words that if you say in a conversation it picks up and sends a alert to the proper authorities..
its something to look and jus get over...
Also think bout it, when something goes truly bad, say a murder uses a phone officials can pick up they logging of calls and texts and read them back, so this loggin has been around for awhile so i dont understand why its becoming sucha big deal when its been around
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You keep saying it is nothing you can do about it, well you could not be more wrong. You can take and S-off your device, unlock your device, root, or what ever the proper method is for your particular device to be able to flash a custom recovery. Then simple download and flash any AOSP ROM. This will give you a device without CIQ.
Now you must not have read the official withdraw of the S&D letter to TrevE that IQ posted a link to on their website. Go yo the XDA Portal and have a look a the latest article by orb3000. Obviously the message has gotten to IQ and I would say more than likely the Carriers. Yeah some say that the power users are a small group but it is a group with great power. When the people that a large force in building enthusiasm for devices and OS's speak out against something that they do not like, people tend to listen. Therefore it has a large chance of affecting sales, new contract signings, and contract renewals.
This whole attitude of people not being able to do anything about something people consider wrong, is such a epic fail. I mean if no one never tries to bring change to something then yeah sure nothing will happen. And the powers that be gains that much more control. But luckily people are starting to get tired of never having change and are starting to do something about this messed up world of ours.
Last thing, if you think this is a simple logging system. Again you could be more wrong. This CIQ has full access to your device, as well as full rights. It can not be killed, forced close, or uninstall. I will not go into any further details, but this is far from what IQ and the carriers want you to think it is.

Shery4life said:
i just had the word with the guy who made the video and he told me that this only affect u.s.a people and this doesn't affect anyone living in eurpoe so if you live in uk, ireland and other part of eurpoe than you are fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Carrier is a global company. The company does have offices in London...
http://www.carrieriq.com/company/index.htm
And under the heading "About Carrier IQ"
http://www.sys-con.com/node/1865183
So European phones may have CIQ installed depending on what the mobile provider. Something that our friends over the pond
should research.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using xda premium

T-Macgnolia said:
You keep saying it is nothing you can do about it, well you could not be more wrong. You can take and S-off your device, unlock your device, root, or what ever the proper method is for your particular device to be able to flash a custom recovery. Then simple download and flash any AOSP ROM. This will give you a device without CIQ.
Now you must not have read the official withdraw of the S&D letter to TrevE that IQ posted a link to on their website. Go yo the XDA Portal and have a look a the latest article by orb3000. Obviously the message has gotten to IQ and I would say more than likely the Carriers. Yeah some say that the power users are a small group but it is a group with great power. When the people that a large force in building enthusiasm for devices and OS's speak out against something that they do not like, people tend to listen. Therefore it has a large chance of affecting sales, new contract signings, and contract renewals.
This whole attitude of people not being able to do anything about something people consider wrong, is such a epic fail. I mean if no one never tries to bring change to something then yeah sure nothing will happen. And the powers that be gains that much more control. But luckily people are starting to get tired of never having change and are starting to do something about this messed up world of ours.
Last thing, if you think this is a simple logging system. Again you could be more wrong. This CIQ has full access to your device, as well as full rights. It can not be killed, forced close, or uninstall. I will not go into any further details, but this is far from what IQ and the carriers want you to think it is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi,
That is very well put.
If you sit back and do nothing, then nothing will get done.
The more people complain about this, the more something is likely to be done.
As far as the carriers are concerned, they probably think that no one knows that this stuff is even installed!
Its important to show our awareness of this situation, and complain about it.

How about Logging TestApp? I heard that this app helps you erase all the logging apps in the phone, including this one.

This issue just Made ABC news this morning

gtrplr71 said:
This issue just Made ABC news this morning
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This issue made international news.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygre...ve-violated-wiretap-law-in-millions-of-cases/
Wow, at first i was reading this thread and had the same, "well whatever" attitude. But after just a couple of minutes googling and reading, this is really messed up. CarrierIQ has issued a cease and dismiss order against the guy in the video, along with threats to sue if he does not publicly apologize.

[KNOX] Searching for users with root, active SELinux and a not tripped Knox

Hello,
I'm involved in trying to collect information regarding Knox, the illegal destruction of private property and possibility to run unknown code and I badly
looking certain configurations to get more answers.
If someone has root, not tripped Knox and preferably SELinux set to "Enforcing", please send me a message! Your help is needed!
I was too late. The "Rules update #16" that blocked "Root de la Vega" was pushed to my phone against my will. Other got it as well.
That means they already have some form of control and disregard your configuration. What can they do more?
With an SELinux they can control your device as they wish if they configure it to hide processes that run, as of today, unknown code.
I'm an "BOFH Unix kick ass consultant" by trade. I know how nicely you can do this. "Living in a box". Oh yes.
This is about our future, the right for privacy and the right to do what we want with out own private property!
The extreme measures taken against just obtaining root are disproportionately harsh. If they succeed, others will follow.
We might end up with iNdroid in a few years. I want to prevent that. But we need more knowledge. They destroy evidence if you trip Knox.
Rooting is not illegal, but the active action of destroying someones property with indent is, whatever cause, warranty claims or not.
There will be consequences. But we need more information, and you who have a Note 3, just as me, can help. The key can be your phone.
Knox is not "just a flag". It have attached code. It sabotages your system both software and hardware. Scrambled software. Wifi permanently
damaged, to name a few. I know, from my S4, and have it verified from source. But that code is run once and then gone. Are there more E-fuses?
Dumping hardware has made at least one device totally bricked. Not even the Power button worked. It was stone-dead.
Also:
If someone has a way of obtaining it without tripping Knox please contact me. I'm willing to take the risk of tripping Knox since this is more important then
some warranty.
I've been working in this for two months now and the more I learn the more I start to question if this isn't a bad movie with Kevin Costner...
No opt-out. Enforcement of this "Enterprise" solution. On your private phone? Think! The money this must cost? You want a return of investment!
Rooted phones cost that much? I don't buy that. You have an unique certificate that binds YOU to your phone. You and your phone are bound as one.
What if 3rd-party malicious code get hands of that? Viruses exist, even on Play. But your Antivirus can't run because it can't access the parts it must have
higher right to read check your programs. I rather run a firewall and deny permissions of programs that want way too much.
A "file manager" doesn't need to read your contacts. A game doesn't need to use your camera. But you can't prevent that.
Knox prevents that. Because you can place a document in a container... I rather use my freeware AES-program that encrypt documents on the fly.
Until we know more the device should be considered as not safe. Why is Samsung stonewalling the question so many have asked?
"What is the extent of the damage made?". I think we have the right to now that, don't you? Many has tried. "Heavy damage" is so far the best we got.
So please, if you still have root and not a crippled device, please contact me. Your help is the only way I see is possible right now.
All the best,
Abs (Yes, I need to update my tag, since I have so much new)

Hi. I've root, not tripped knox and with selinux set to enforcing.
Enviado desde mi SM-N9005 mediante Tapatalk

Absolon said:
Hello,
I'm involved in trying to collect information regarding Knox, the illegal destruction of private property and possibility to run unknown code and I badly
looking certain configurations to get more answers.
...
I was too late. The "Rules update #16" that blocked "Root de la Vega" was pushed to my phone against my will.
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, if you missed the incredibly obvious checkbox in Settings / Security = Auto update security you really don't look like the right person to trust with full root access on my phone.

xclub_101 said:
Sorry, if you missed the incredibly obvious checkbox in Settings / Security = Auto update security you really don't look like the right person to trust with full root access on my phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It got pushed about the moment I turned on my phone the first time. So as I said. I missed the opportunity
But thank those who instead of making sarcastic comments, already sent a message and offered help instead. :good:
I'm sure that the large group who got their phones destroyed really value you and your opinion, Xblub
But be careful so you don't trip it. You would not believe how easy that is!
Would be sad if you also got your phone devastated by the unkindly spirits at Samsung.
Let's hope we find a solution before that happens, right?
And please, if more want to help out please mess me, there are so many who got their phones destroyed and Samsung will not stop itself.
It will only be worse. But you can help stop this while we still have a change.
Next phones will have Knox chipped and then even Xblub will be sad
/Abs
Edit: Of course I meant Xclub.
As noted, easy to make a mistake. Like wanting Xclub to write "ls" when I really meant he should run
#!/bin/bash
//usr/bin/tail -n +2 $0 | g++ -o main -x c++ - && ./main && rm main && exit
main(_){_^448&&main(-~_);putchar(--_%64?32|-~7[__TIME__-_/8%8][">'txiZ^(~z?"-48]>>";;;====~$::199"[_*2&8|_/64]/(_&2?1:8)%8&1:10);} (Please don't run it!)

Ahh @Absolon, Was wondering where you had gotten too.
To be honest, I just tripped mine soon as I got it. removed the Stock ROM and just went custom. However... What I have noticed is knox.eventsmanager runs regardless of ROM and IF KNOX is uninstalled.. So probably running /hiding somewhere in the bootloader (at a guess anyway)..
All this KNOX talk is getting complicated now, it's a 50-50 split I think with people tripping/keeping it. - Samsung have forced it upon us, and unless we custom flash (and lose warranty in parts of the world) we are screwed.

radicalisto said:
Ahh @Absolon, Was wondering where you had gotten too.
To be honest, I just tripped mine soon as I got it. removed the Stock ROM and just went custom. However... What I have noticed is knox.eventsmanager runs regardless of ROM and IF KNOX is uninstalled.. So probably running /hiding somewhere in the bootloader (at a guess anyway)..
All this KNOX talk is getting complicated now, it's a 50-50 split I think with people tripping/keeping it. - Samsung have forced it upon us, and unless we custom flash (and lose warranty in parts of the world) we are screwed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have not touched the Note 3 yet, but I tripped the S4 when they sneaked it in. My Wifi works though, Like a Us Robotics 56K modem, but well..
So what did you experience? I just got the reports from the S4.
The problem of tripping or not tripping is not if this would be a flag because it's not. It's a lot more and I have it confirmed.
But since I can't obtain root without tripping Knox on my Note 3 right now I won't do it until the holidays are over and then claim hardware warranty
and let that play itself out.
But pray tell, after you broke Knox. What did you notice? Still have that sticky bootloader? Any Wifi, gfx, other issues? Any issues with
programs that got removed or that Play stopped working?
All info is needed and I really need constructive people here. I don't need access to someones phone. But I need to collect things.
So even if you can't Android or the SEL that I'm after I can guide through. So let's stop this before we have it in a nice chip next year?
Doesn't that sound like a really good plan?
/Absie

Absolon said:
I have not touched the Note 3 yet, but I tripped the S4 when they sneaked it in. My Wifi works though, Like a Us Robotics 56K modem, but well..
So what did you experience? I just got the reports from the S4.
The problem of tripping or not tripping is not if this would be a flag because it's not. It's a lot more and I have it confirmed.
But since I can't obtain root without tripping Knox on my Note 3 right now I won't do it until the holidays are over and then claim hardware warranty
and let that play itself out.
But pray tell, after you broke Knox. What did you notice? Still have that sticky bootloader? Any Wifi, gfx, other issues? Any issues with
programs that got removed or that Play stopped working?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think you can tell the difference once Knox is tripped. The only obvious thing that sticks out is you have more RAM/HDD available and the phone feels slightly faster. As for Play and Apps not working, I am yet to see any issues (only play issues I have ever had have been No connection, when there clearly is one. After a few refreshes it loads up. Now bear in mind, My connection isn't weak, I've been on the internet via the browser or on an app when I have switched to Play and experienced this) - Not to mention a stupid notification yapping at us telling us we are wrong to use something on a phone we legally own.
Absolon said:
All info is needed and I really need constructive people here. I don't need access to someones phone. But I need to collect things.
So even if you can't Android or the SEL that I'm after I can guide through. So let's stop this before we have it in a nice chip next year?
Doesn't that sound like a really good plan?
/Absie
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Aww I dread to even think what Samsung will enforce on us next time. There should be an option when you purchase the phone, if you're gonna use it for corporate use, then have KNOX installed via a code they print out. - But to us the everyday user. All it's doing is
*Taking up space on OUR phones
*Running cheekily in the BG
*As you stated, banning access to certain parts of the phone, which IF exploited, our AV's etc cannot reach.
To say we (well most of us) live in a free world, when it comes to us being consumers... they like to shaft us several times over.

Absolon said:
If someone has root, not tripped Knox and preferably SELinux set to "Enforcing", please send me a message! Your help is needed!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I feel your frustration. I would much rather an open hardware platform with none of this KNOX business. It's starting to get ridiculous...
It sounds like you've already got help, however I too have an un-tripped KNOX, w/ SELinux enforcing and would be happy to help out.

lispnik said:
I feel your frustration. I would much rather an open hardware platform with none of this KNOX business. It's starting to get ridiculous...
It sounds like you've already got help, however I too have an un-tripped KNOX, w/ SELinux enforcing and would be happy to help out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not all have the same configurations and not all have the same level of knowledge. But that is not a problem.
As I said. I don't want into your phone, I want you to collect info. So I gladly take any help I can get. Send me a private message.
Because I need as many as possible to verify things. Don't be shy! I don't bite. That hard

Destruction of data INSIDE the knox container after gaining root (which is a vulnerability in itself) is not data manipulation of any sort.
Tripping the counter will just void your warranty (as you would expect anyway!) and disable the knox container completely - it will NOT cause any other issue whatsoever to your device.
The System Security Policy service resets with a factory reset (so you can now go to the security tab and disable auto update).
Security Policy blocks known vulnerabilities that can give access to unauthorised root permissions and potential malware attacks.
Knox as a container can be opted out by uninstalling the knox application.
Knox as a counter is an integrated security measure and in no way should you ever be able to turn it off.
Security Policy is an active security system and you should not have the option to turn it off - you can prevent updates to the policy however.
Tripping the counter will not cause any hardware/software damage (!! An E-FUSE triggering is not damage, it's doing the job it is designed to do in case of compromising the system !!) - it will prevent you from using the knox container which is no longer safe after root and prevent you from getting warranty because you void it by rooting since the middle ages anyway - WiFi issues, dead devices and whatnot are not related in any way as most N3 users here are already using the device with knox tripped.
If you want root privileges you automatically lose your warranty and access to knox, nothing more nothing less.
PS: Update 16 blocked kingoapproot and vroot (which are technically malware), not root de la vega, the new bootloader blocked root de la vega because it's an exploit to gain root.

Absolon said:
...
The problem of tripping or not tripping is not if this would be a flag because it's not. It's a lot more and I have it confirmed.
But since I can't obtain root without tripping Knox on my Note 3 right now I won't do it until the holidays are over and then claim hardware warranty
and let that play itself out.
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While the first line falls close to what a conspiracy theorist would say the second one is an interesting point where more attention would be useful.
It can be argued that in the context of EU law the HARDWARE warranty is different than the SOFTWARE warranty, and that a manufacturer can not evade providing the first.
The thing is - to the best of my knowledge Samsung has never (so far) denied HARDWARE warranty based on knox flag status - so in that regard you might have a starting point in case you want to set some precedent - and I would LOVE such a precedent to be set (in a way that protects the consumer)!
Other than that all the stuff on how knox is used by Samsung to spy on you and follow your every move is really not helping anybody's cause (except maybe Samsung's).
My final point on this matter is that people with a LOT more technical knowledge on the subject than Absolon here (people like Chainfire or AndreiLux and plenty other) have commented on this, so people should really learn more about the subject before starting the wrong crusade born out of conspiracy theories. Don't get me wrong - I WANT my consumer freedom, but I would also like that when legal precedents are set on the subject to have them set the right way, for the right reasons and with the right evidence (which will not be destroyed in court by Samsung lawyers in a day or less).

I'm following a good advice and removing any further comments.
I really want to work in a constructive manner and I do not with to petty fight. So please.
If anyone else want to help explore, please message me. We are on different levels of knowledge but that is all what XDA is about. To learn and to help!
All the best,
Abs

If I trip KNOX and my phone will need a repair will this work?
[INFO][EU] Rooting and Flashing don't void the warranty

EdisDee said:
If I trip KNOX and my phone will need a repair will this work?
[INFO][EU] Rooting and Flashing don't void the warranty
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As said, there are different views. Skander has one experience and that can be for one version.
For the I9505 the Knox did cause damage to the hardware and I did collect reports of findings and the majority was Wifi,
If this is the same for Note 3 I don't know. I write that I know, and what I think. We have free speech and I can have my thoughts and so can others.
It's rudeness and bluntness that should be avoided and I know that irony sometimes doesn't do as well on paper as in real life, but believe me, irony is the only thing that keeps me alive now days ;P

So when turning on a GN3 for the first time immediately disable updates before you DL the bad firmware/bootloaders?

Edbert said:
So when turning on a GN3 for the first time immediately disable updates before you DL the bad firmware/bootloaders?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On ANY MODERN PHONE (if possible - for instance you will not be able to do that on any iphone) you should:
- start the phone once without any SIM card and without entering/activating any form of WiFi - this will guarantee that your phone will not connect first to the Internet
- check/set any relevant settings regarding security and software updates - for instance on Note 3 those are two separate settings, and the security one seems to be activated "by default"; currently the firmware update is not really activated "by default" since it WILL ask you pick a country and agree to some EULA
- either way, once you have disabled things (I also disable mobile data at this point) you can then power-off and insert your SIM, then enable WiFi and do whatever else you want to do.
I am not saying that it is "normal" to be this way, but since it is then you better be prepared for it!

Tripping knox won't break your WiFi or anything on the Note 3.
If you break it yourself by messing with it that's another thing.
Do keep in mind that your warranty is void by rooting but this depends on the seller or carrier.

Skander1998 said:
Tripping knox won't break your WiFi or anything on the Note 3.
If you break it yourself by messing with it that's another thing.
Do keep in mind that your warranty is void by rooting but this depends on the seller or carrier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Abit ridiculous though. Why they would want to avoid advance users like us to root our phones? Knox was implemented for corporate user or uses. But they jolly well know most of their customers are average users which are not completely working on highest intel in any agencies which require knox to be used. Their marketing strategy failed to the max. Focusing knox on both the corporate users and normal users. Secondly knox to them is both a security measures and a so called warranty tracker. By warranty rooting as does damage your phone software but not hardware unless extreme cases whereby people oc'd their phone to be rocket-ed out of their pockets. Hmm. Rarely i've heard root causes phone to be burnt or caused a crack to the screen or buttons alignment.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
---------- Post added at 05:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:39 AM ----------
MxFadzil92 said:
Abit ridiculous though. Why they would want to avoid advance users like us to root our phones? Knox was implemented for corporate user or uses. But they jolly well know most of their customers are average users which are not completely working on highest intel in any agencies which require knox to be used. Their marketing strategy failed to the max. Focusing knox on both the corporate users and normal users. Secondly knox to them is both a security measures and a so called warranty tracker. By warranty rooting does damage your phone software changing of roms baseband kernel etc but still baseband all those stuff are still needed by the original manufacturer release not by cyanogemod for example new baseband are aquired by new tw rom new builds except for kernels which are aquired by githubs made by respective developers... But not hardware unless extreme cases whereby people oc'd their phone to be rocket-ed out of their pockets. Hmm. Rarely i've heard root causes phone to be burnt or caused a crack to the screen or buttons alignment. Rooting are the only way for us to try a new android platform build release by google... To wait for manufacturer release maaan could be months down the road. Sigh.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

MxFadzil92 said:
.too long.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They do not stop you from rooting, they just re-affirm the million year old knowledge that rooting voids your warranty!
Bricking smartphones from rooting is very common, so does flashing kernels and whatnot, flashing kernels can actually allow someone to cause actual hardware damage to antennas, CPU's and GPU's and even kill the screen (in the note 2 for example, flashing an s3 recovery will burn the digitizer permanently)
Rooting also invalidates Knox's security completely, and any data there should be protected so they make it self destruct (the container) when rooted and the flag is there so after unrooting (and potentially having a still infected system) no one can activate a container anymore on the Smartphone.
This has side effects like the inability to root without detection, but the regular users you are talking about will not root their devices and so is 90+% of the users.
Knox is not an issue and nothing new, flashing anything from 2010 on any device voids your warranty, now it voids it with a permanent marker so you can't fool them and technically illegally get a repair from a broken warranty.
You break warranty terms even one of them, you don't get it.

xclub_101 said:
On ANY MODERN PHONE (if possible - for instance you will not be able to do that on any iphone) you should:
- start the phone once without any SIM card and without entering/activating any form of WiFi - this will guarantee that your phone will not connect first to the Internet
- check/set any relevant settings regarding security and software updates - for instance on Note 3 those are two separate settings, and the security one seems to be activated "by default"; currently the firmware update is not really activated "by default" since it WILL ask you pick a country and agree to some EULA
- either way, once you have disabled things (I also disable mobile data at this point) you can then power-off and insert your SIM, then enable WiFi and do whatever else you want to do.
I am not saying that it is "normal" to be this way, but since it is then you better be prepared for it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And with a company that does fair play you don't have to worry that they push something you don't want on your phone.
And they do. Don't be too sure that just because you turned your settings off that it protects you, because if you read through posts you will see that people got updates pushed, disregarding whatever setting you had. And that is certainly not fair play
But to answer your question. First. Just dropping names here and there doesn't do it. To ride on someones "fame" to gain more authority and merit to your post is bad rhetoric.
You should be able to do that on your own.
Yes, there are many who are way better then me, but the nice thing is that when you asked them, they know they once been there themselves and don't feel the need to project personal problems and anger on some random person they never met.
Just that we passed the 100 post mark and XDA automatically put a "senoir" next to the name means nothing more then we are good at bull****ting online,
Doesn't tell if you are 1337 or a n00b. Even if you post 10000 post doesn't mean that you have any deeper understanding.
But new users don't know that, and treating others without respect scares them away. Makes them afraid to ask. Who wants a snotty answer back on their first post?
So please. Make this a constructive place. If you are angry I recommend Reddit/Imgur/Flashback. There you can project whatever you want or need.
I don't know how to code a single line in Java!
But I'm awesome in C64 Basic!! And I managed to write "Hello World" in BF!
And I know several Asm's and I coded mostly in C (and C++ when it was still readable) and did my VHDL/Erlang-hell period (and I tested like 20++ other languages, some enforced during my master but some just for fun. I can write "Hello World!" in Sun's start eeprom!) but that was looong time ago. So I'm "rusty". Old. There are so many nifty new things. But then. Mostly I use something invented 200 years ago - A stethoscope. But there is a new COOL one! BT! With noise reduction and spectrum analysis! No more things that hurt in my ears! For the little sum of 1500 € it's yours!..... Bleh.
But I'm not ashamed of that! I can learn if I want. XDA is a great place for that. Even have their own Android University!
I'm fairly good with Unix. Even made money of it. For over 8 years. And the good with that is that some things we still use today haven't changed since 1973!
And I worked some with hardware but I need a new JTAG. Know a good one? So many to choose and I don't know the quality or what is needed?
Do the board even have pins or do you have to weld them? I hate welding!
You say conspiracy. I say concern and worry.
Why are people starting to get worried?
It's not as much as conspiracy then more why they are behaving like they do?
The fact is simple - the unknown
The word SELinux has come to more people now since it's mandatory in 4.3. The "moblie magazines", M3, Android** talks about the "news in 4.3".
But what is SELInux?
So people turn to the trusty Wikipedia for answers: Wikipedia - SELinux
And the first lines they see are
Security-Enhanced Linux (SELinux) is a Linux kernel security module that provides the mechanism for supporting access control security
policies, including United States Department of Defense-style mandatory access controls (MAC).
SELinux is a set of kernel modifications and user-space tools that can be added to various Linux distributions. Its architecture strives to
separate enforcement of security decisions from the security policy itself and streamlines the volume of software charged with security
policy enforcement.[1][2]
The key concepts underlying SELinux can be traced to several earlier projects by the United States National Security Agency.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is what people see!!
I can bet some even read "police" and not "policies". The see all this and that SCARES THEM.
With the recent scandals in mind of NSA hacking everything including the Germans Chancellors phone, an alley??
And here, the American spy-outpost towards Sovjet/Russia since 1947. We have also a 3-letter agency. And not many weeks ago there where front pages that they shared the databases with each other. So is that so hard to understand?
So to get from the unknowns they start to look
So you turn to Samsung for answers, And they treat you like cattle. And they stonewall you? No transparency whatsoever.
They reminds me of Nokia when they also went into "grandiose mode" and also through they could do whatever they please because of their total dominance. But they forgot one thing. The consumers got more and more unhappy. And they was their sole income. And when get got that in their heads it was too late. What are they now? Decimated to nothing. Trying desperately with a yet another attempt by Microsoft that is deemed to fail. How many times have Microsoft tried to get in on the hand-held market? I lost count.
And then they start to Google. XDA turns up like the first thing. Find their phone and see "Knox?"
(SELinux==NSA) --> Enterprise solution? On my private phone? Encryption? Damage? Container? What do I need THAT for?
"I don't want THAT on my phone! NSA. Enterprise. Container? Where is the opt out? There are none? I was NOT informed of this!"
That is what I find that worrying and I share that with many others.
Yes, some say it's just a flag. Not on S4. Look how many got problem with Wifi. I got them as well. And I knew when I broke my Knox.
Since SS goes all this trouble to hinder you to gain root access that they even had an E-fuse that does cause hardware damage.
To prevent "Triangle Away"? As your friend if he believes it's because of that?
I don't have to use SELinux to run code past your nose, root or not, but SELinux does it so much easier, since you can define it do hide processes from normal users and it has the possibility to run 3rd-party code. You know that, right?
Since we don't know what is run on the phone you can't be sure it's not something with some intent? So why not investigate it? What is going on in the phone?
Aren't you curious? I am. I would love to be able to root? Can I after #16 on MJ7?
But sure ask them, please. Give it a try
Ask them for example why Wifi stopped working after Knox was tripped on your S4?
Ask them what the extent of the damage they have done?
Ask them where this "Efuse data" is, on what address-range so you can avoid it? Data for a flag? Wasn't that just burned in?
Ask them why you can't update with Kies anymore? Wasn't that just a flag?
Ask them anything.
And I'm sure you will get a message back (if you get any) from "Steve". The poor overworked guy that serves the whole world and he always seems to write the same? We compared. He sits and write the same text over and over? "Sorry, we can't divulge this information at the moment".
Poor Steve!
Come back to the mother-continent! I promise, we've stopped flogging, guillotine, quartering and we changed the stake for a steak!
We have much more fun! 6 weeks of full paid vacation. Here in Sweden we have Polar bears! While we sit in our igloos and make watches.
And we have better beer as well!
If you see turning of a setting as a merit I think you should add that to your CV (and I was not alone in this).
I did as 99% of all do. Unpack the phone. Skip the instruction. Put in the sim and the sd-card and then turn it on.
BAM! I don't even think I had the time to enter my Gmail?
But you didn't. Great!
Here your knowledge would be useful! Help your fellow XDA members. In the spirit of XDA!
Can you dump the phone? Not block-wise but by reading the whole contact of the eeproms?
Can you compare your fstab and it sizes? Do they correspond to the space you have? If you dump them and compare it to the first, Do the differ much is size (a bit is natural)?
Can you use parted and list the partitions? Are all mounted? What rights do they have? Can you read them all?
The security policies in /system. What do they contain? See anything strange?
Can you compare what processes you see as a user and root?
Can you list the rules loaded in the kernel? MAC? (I think you need to compile the commands for it or get it from some Arm dist, they are not included)
Strace some processes that you don't recognize?
The kcryptd? What do they work against?
What files are open and locked? What does the stat say?
See kvm? Or are you in a kvm?
Here you can actually ACT and DO something constructive and concrete or is this just, as from my compressor, high pressured air comming from your side?
Time will tell I guess.
For the others that have messaged me: A BIG BIG THANK YOU!
And no, I don't have enough volunteers, if you do have this configuration, mess me. Or test sometime from test list. The dumping should be used by experienced users but you can do a lot on that list and you can zip and sent me some files. Rules, Pipe out the process lists.
I don't care how much you can or can't. Ask away! We started at the beginning somewhere and I will do my best, ask around, and TOGETHER, we might get some result, because we want to DO something and maybe we CAN help right? Either we find something or we don't. If we are sure and can say "The system seems clean". That would calm a LOT people down. Including me.
/Abs
And with this I won't go into more arguments about this. It's enough. I saw this as an excellent solution to see and check. Not to argue.
I already lost too much time on bla bla bla. I want to spend the time I have on things that matter. My friends that have their phones destroyed.
Use the list or make another! All seem to have their own experiences/views. Samsung must love this division.
Just DO something! Like in all research: Stipulate, challenge, prove, disprove, confirm, dismiss. Start over.
If you need to vent, you can PM me as well, Xblub.

MOD's please delete this post.

Deleted...
Leaving Verizon.

Sharpie603 said:
Recently Verizon has shown their true colors. They do NOT want to give us control of a device that we bought and paid for. (That's like buying a radio that only plays Country).
In my eyes. If we pay you monthly then why do you care what we do with our device? We own it right?
However, after days of researching and very knowledgeable co-workers..... The solution is here.
ODIN 3.10. That's Correct. ODIN 3.10 has the ability to look past the locked bootloader and grant access to roll back. This was not made to be public but (Thank GOD) was leaked on Aug 26th.
You can download ODIN 3.10 here: http://www.theandroidsoul.com/download/download-odin-3-10-6/
I have not yet tried to root after rolling back to the BOA8 Kernel. Anyone want to test this out and let me know if you were able to root after downgrading?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you were able to downgrade from OG5 to OA8, just by using the 3.10 version of ODIN? Has anybody else tried this yet?

scadilla said:
So you were able to downgrade from OG5 to OA8, just by using the 3.10 version of ODIN? Has anybody else tried this yet?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just the Kernel, not the firmware. Which in reality.... Serves no purpose.... The bootloader still remains locked and prevents from downgrading the firmware. However, this method works for downgrading kernels...
I'm still looking into ways to obtain root with a downgraded kernel. Not saying it's possible, but I'm not giving up just yet.

Sharpie603 said:
Just the Kernel, not the firmware. Which in reality.... Serves no purpose.... The bootloader still remains locked and prevents from downgrading the firmware. However, this method works for downgrading kernels...
I'm still looking into ways to obtain root with a downgraded kernel. Not saying it's possible, but I'm not giving up just yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm definitely following this thread!!! Thanks for the info Sharpie603!!! Man... I really hope you're successful!!! I'm ROOTing for you! (Pun intended! Damn I'm funny! No?!?! Anyone???) LOL

Sharpie603 said:
Just the Kernel, not the firmware. Which in reality.... Serves no purpose.... The bootloader still remains locked and prevents from downgrading the firmware. However, this method works for downgrading kernels...
I'm still looking into ways to obtain root with a downgraded kernel. Not saying it's possible, but I'm not giving up just yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, OK, that makes sense so the thinking is if you are on OG5 with the locked bootloader that you could downgrade the kernel and then root. I'll be following closely as well.

scadilla said:
Ah, OK, that makes sense so the thinking is if you are on OG5 with the locked bootloader that you could downgrade the kernel and then root. I'll be following closely as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not looking very promising.

Can you downgrade APNHLOS?

Terribly misleading title. OE1 and OG5 didn't do anything about locking the kernel, they were bootloader locks. As you said, unless you can downgrade which you can't. The only way this would be useful is if we could get root by only downgrading the kernel, which we cannot. We could access safestrap if we HAD root access, because we could flash the NI2 kernel to get access, but no root = no safestrap.
I don't think you made a discovery, I think you just came across what wasn't stated bluntly, simply because it wasn't necessary information to tell people. As for your quest to find a way to root.... I'm just going to say, have fun.

In regards to the OP's statement - Verizon could care less about the rooting community and allowing you to do what you want with your "owned" devices. Verizon and AT&T locked the phones down tight as they should because this is a portable personal computer with all your financial information being transferred back and forth. Tightening the security of the phone against hackers trying to steal all your information and identity had the unfortunate side effect of making root near impossible currently. The device performs exactly as advertised on the box and in the specifications. Your analogy of a radio stuck on country is a poor one. Think more like you bought a car and it will not go 200 miles an hour. There is nothing preventing you from purchasing a car that can, or replacing the engine to do so which would have other downfalls such as gas mileage going to crap. In the same analogy you can purchase a T-Mobile motherboard, swap it out, be able to root, but not get certain LTE bands. Verizon has not targeted you at all...you can blame the hackers constantly trying to get information off the phones. Verizon and AT&T took steps to try to prevent that and of course increase profits by being rated the most secure phones out there. Verizon never gave you the keys to root...ever! So they are not keeping this info from you. Just like every device that took a little time to find root, it is up to you and the developers to find away around it.
This is the same as saying Acme safe company is trying to keep you from being rich because they made their safes more secure.

Spartan117H3 said:
Terribly misleading title. OE1 and OG5 didn't do anything about locking the kernel, they were bootloader locks. As you said, unless you can downgrade which you can't. The only way this would be useful is if we could get root by only downgrading the kernel, which we cannot. We could access safestrap if we HAD root access, because we could flash the NI2 kernel to get access, but no root = no safestrap.
I don't think you made a discovery, I think you just came across what wasn't stated bluntly, simply because it wasn't necessary information to tell people. As for your quest to find a way to root.... I'm just going to say, have fun.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The title is not misleading at all. It does exactly what I described. Gives you the ability to downgrade the Kernel. and the Kernel only. I clearly mentioned this in post #3 that this still leaves the bootloader locked. then in later posts went on to mention that it looks like we are still SOL. Take it how you want, sorry for actively trying to find a solution...

KennyG123 said:
In regards to the OP's statement - Verizon could care less about the rooting community and allowing you to do what you want with your "owned" devices. Verizon and AT&T locked the phones down tight as they should because this is a portable personal computer with all your financial information being transferred back and forth. Tightening the security of the phone against hackers trying to steal all your information and identity had the unfortunate side effect of making root near impossible currently. The device performs exactly as advertised on the box and in the specifications. Your analogy of a radio stuck on country is a poor one. Think more like you bought a car and it will not go 200 miles an hour. There is nothing preventing you from purchasing a car that can, or replacing the engine to do so which would have other downfalls such as gas mileage going to crap. In the same analogy you can purchase a T-Mobile motherboard, swap it out, be able to root, but not get certain LTE bands. Verizon has not targeted you at all...you can blame the hackers constantly trying to get information off the phones. Verizon and AT&T took steps to try to prevent that and of course increase profits by being rated the most secure phones out there. Verizon never gave you the keys to root...ever! So they are not keeping this info from you. Just like every device that took a little time to find root, it is up to you and the developers to find away around it.
This is the same as saying Acme safe company is trying to keep you from being rich because they made their safes more secure.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not worried about my phone being hacked. I have nothing to hide. I do not bank online or make purchases online. If there is fraudulent activity on my bank account, my credit union will inform me. This is besides the fact. I could care less if I made a "bad" analogy. I'm not sitting here thinking "Hmmm I wonder if anyone will have a problem with this statement" when writing up a comment. Your paragraph is nothing but slander "Something XDA strongly discourages". A simple "I don't think this will work, and here's why" would of been suffice.
On a side note. I'm leaving Verizon so you won't have to worry about me trying to find root and help you guys out anymore.

Sharpie603 said:
The title is not misleading at all. It does exactly what I described. Gives you the ability to downgrade the Kernel. and the Kernel only. I clearly mentioned this in post #3 that this still leaves the bootloader locked. then in later posts went on to mention that it looks like we are still SOL. Take it how you want, sorry for actively trying to find a solution...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is misleading because you mark it as solved as if it was a puzzle that nobody else can figured out, like you had new information to provide. If I'm not mistaken, the kernel was never locked, and you can use any Odin to push a different kernel. It was never a question if the kernel was locked. So you didn't do anything except state what was redundant. The people who confirm that the bootloader is locked say so because it means you can't downgrade. They didn't say you can still downgrade the kernel because it's absolutely meaningless. That's like saying, the bootloader is locked, but you can still Odin and flash any file you want even if it doesn't work.
There are countless people like you in other threads who claim they're trying to find a way to root. Neither you nor I are smart enough to come up with an exploit, as I have detailed countless times before. So why don't we leave that up to the developers?
Sharpie603 said:
I'm not worried about my phone being hacked. I have nothing to hide. I do not bank online or make purchases online. If there is fraudulent activity on my bank account, my credit union will inform me. This is besides the fact. I could care less if I made a "bad" analogy. I'm not sitting here thinking "Hmmm I wonder if anyone will have a problem with this statement" when writing up a comment. Your paragraph is nothing but slander "Something XDA strongly discourages". A simple "I don't think this will work, and here's why" would of been suffice.
On a side note. I'm leaving Verizon so you won't have to worry about me trying to find root and help you guys out anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It doesn't matter if you don't care yourself, because you are not everyone. You are a single person. If you were everyone, obviously Verizon wouldn't make money off you, and wouldn't secure their phones. But this is flawed reasoning yet again.
A bad analogy shows you have flawed reasoning. It doesn't matter if you care or not, you don't have a problem with stating things that don't make sense, then by all means, continue (which I don't even have to say, because you do indeed continue).
Slander? Are you serious? You acknowledge the reason for his post, which claims you have a bad analogy, and explains why Verizon does what it does. Then you make an insane, baseless claim that says xda discourages root. Yet XDA was where the original root method was released in detail, with the newsworthy 18k bouty.
Why does he need to explain why it wouldn't work, when you yourself have already done that? It's the same when you responded to me. You answer your own question but then argue against people when they confirm with your latter findings that it doesn't work?
I don't understand why people like you are so happy to see 1 posters support you, but then immediately get hostile when anyone with any knowledge comes in to speak. You running from Verizon doesn't solve any problems and shows you weren't invested to begin with, which is fine, since you wouldn't have accomplished anything anyway. Unless you're claiming to be smarter than those who found the original root.
You want to know why it won't work? All these people have similar ideas to yours, they either want root, or want to "try" with little to no knowledge at all about what they are doing.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=62378933&postcount=19
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=62380538&postcount=23
http://forum.xda-developers.com/verizon-galaxy-s5/help/vz-replacement-s5-oe1-t3190365
http://forum.xda-developers.com/ver...g5-verizon-t3192598/post62746265#post62746265

Spartan117H3 said:
It is misleading because you mark it as solved as if it was a puzzle that nobody else can figured out, like you had new information to provide. If I'm not mistaken, the kernel was never locked, and you can use any Odin to push a different kernel. It was never a question if the kernel was locked. So you didn't do anything except state what was redundant. The people who confirm that the bootloader is locked say so because it means you can't downgrade. They didn't say you can still downgrade the kernel because it's absolutely meaningless. That's like saying, the bootloader is locked, but you can still Odin and flash any file you want even if it doesn't work.
There are countless people like you in other threads who claim they're trying to find a way to root. Neither you nor I are smart enough to come up with an exploit, as I have detailed countless times before. So why don't we leave that up to the developers?
It doesn't matter if you don't care yourself, because you are not everyone. You are a single person. If you were everyone, obviously Verizon wouldn't make money off you, and wouldn't secure their phones. But this is flawed reasoning yet again.
A bad analogy shows you have flawed reasoning. It doesn't matter if you care or not, you don't have a problem with stating things that don't make sense, then by all means, continue (which I don't even have to say, because you do indeed continue).
Slander? Are you serious? You acknowledge the reason for his post, which claims you have a bad analogy, and explains why Verizon does what it does. Then you make an insane, baseless claim that says xda discourages root. Yet XDA was where the original root method was released in detail, with the newsworthy 18k bouty.
Why does he need to explain why it wouldn't work, when you yourself have already done that? It's the same when you responded to me. You answer your own question but then argue against people when they confirm with your latter findings that it doesn't work?
I don't understand why people like you are so happy to see 1 posters support you, but then immediately get hostile when anyone with any knowledge comes in to speak. You running from Verizon doesn't solve any problems and shows you weren't invested to begin with, which is fine, since you wouldn't have accomplished anything anyway. Unless you're claiming to be smarter than those who found the original root.
You want to know why it won't work? All these people have similar ideas to yours, they either want root, or want to "try" with little to no knowledge at all about what they are doing.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=62378933&postcount=19
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=62380538&postcount=23
http://forum.xda-developers.com/verizon-galaxy-s5/help/vz-replacement-s5-oe1-t3190365
http://forum.xda-developers.com/ver...g5-verizon-t3192598/post62746265#post62746265
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Listen I came here thinking I found a way. In no way was trying to start a war among like minded individuals. All you are doing is trying to ream me out for what? For a mistake I made, thinking I had a solution? Way to be professional. Sorry for cluttering the forum. Sorry for everything I have done thus far. Sorry for bothering you sir. Sorry for not being as knowledgeable as you are. I'm sorry for everything! F*ck

Sharpie603 said:
Listen I came here thinking I found a way. In no way was trying to start a war among like minded individuals. All you are doing is trying to ream me out for what? For a mistake I made, thinking I had a solution? Way to be professional. Sorry for cluttering the forum. Sorry for everything I have done thus far. Sorry for bothering you sir. Sorry for not being as knowledgeable as you are. I'm sorry for everything! F*ck
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem is, you just assume things without actually comprehending what people say. That's why you believe this is apparently a war. Ream you out? You miss the entire point, repeatedly. All it is is people telling you why your statements don't make any sense.

Sharpie603 said:
I'm not worried about my phone being hacked. I have nothing to hide. I do not bank online or make purchases online. If there is fraudulent activity on my bank account, my credit union will inform me. This is besides the fact. I could care less if I made a "bad" analogy. I'm not sitting here thinking "Hmmm I wonder if anyone will have a problem with this statement" when writing up a comment. Your paragraph is nothing but slander "Something XDA strongly discourages". A simple "I don't think this will work, and here's why" would of been suffice.
On a side note. I'm leaving Verizon so you won't have to worry about me trying to find root and help you guys out anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As stated that is just YOU. 99.9% of people do not want their phone hacked or their identity stolen.
How is stating the facts slander? And I think I would know best what is encouraged here and what isn't. Now you are just lashing out for no reason and making no sense.
I guess we can close this as you wished. Thanks for trying.