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Grainy Screen?

Is it just me or the screen is grainy when in low light and in darker images?

same here, very disappointed in this camera

Yes , it's like a very thin layer of dust or paper is on the screen .

Raay said:
Yes , it's like a very thin layer of dust or paper is on the screen .
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I think this is common with OLED, I've only seen a handful of them though...check out another OLED device or TV in store & check for it.

Ace42 said:
I think this is common with OLED, I've only seen a handful of them though...check out another OLED device or TV in store & check for it.
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Is it a common problem or common in all oled? If it's a problem I'm going to return the phone. It's noticeable when you watch videos without light and lowest brightness.

Its common with this phone, not with oled in general.
If its just grainy then you are in luck, mine has clear vertical and horizontal lines.
I believe its called mura with oled technology.
My galaxy nexus a few years back had it way worse and i traded that in after 2 days at the store for a galaxy s3.
My galaxy s3 had perfect screen (to this day it is still perfect except for the cracks in the screen)
Trying to sell my g flex 2 as i have a taiwanese imported phone (h959 red 32gb) in europe and LG webcare refuses to help me with it (and sending it back to vendor will cost me tons of transport and import again ...).
Also LG webcare stated it was normal and even a screen replacement wouldn't fix much. So i was kind of bitter and told them they where 4 years behind on samsung in oled technology if this is normal.
Anyway, good luck with it.

WittePens said:
Its common with this phone, not with oled in general.
If its just grainy then you are in luck, mine has clear vertical and horizontal lines.
I believe its called mura with oled technology.
My galaxy nexus a few years back had it way worse and i traded that in after 2 days at the store for a galaxy s3.
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I'm not noticing any major grainy areas, at least it's less noticeable than on my Galaxy S1 & Vita. I unfortunately got one with yellowing along the bottom edge, but I can only see it on light colors.
Also the Mura effect consists of black blotches on black areas, those lines you have are something else.
Sent from my LG-H950

Mura is cloudy effects on the screen, eg yellow spots.
Banding is lines.
I got both and LG refuses to fix it.

POLED
WittePens said:
Its common with this phone, not with oled in general.
If its just grainy then you are in luck, mine has clear vertical and horizontal lines.
I believe its called mura with oled technology.
My galaxy nexus a few years back had it way worse and i traded that in after 2 days at the store for a galaxy s3.
My galaxy s3 had perfect screen (to this day it is still perfect except for the cracks in the screen)
Trying to sell my g flex 2 as i have a taiwanese imported phone (h959 red 32gb) in europe and LG webcare refuses to help me with it (and sending it back to vendor will cost me tons of transport and import again ...).
Also LG webcare stated it was normal and even a screen replacement wouldn't fix much. So i was kind of bitter and told them they where 4 years behind on samsung in oled technology if this is normal.
Anyway, good luck with it.
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Yes, true, it is common with this phone and not with OLED technology in general. Now, what else you need to note is that this phone uses POLED type of display. POLED differs with regular AMOLED and OLED display technology in the plastic substrate that employs as opposed to the glass substrate in regular AMOLED/OLED displays, hence the letter "P" in POLED. Plastic is used to make the display bendable and this POLED technology by LG is not perfected yet. I do not know if Samsung uses POLED for S6 Edge, S6 Edge Plus and Note Edge, if they indeed use plastic substrate in their curved displays, then your claim that LG is behind in this tech. is true. I think i've read somewhere that Samsung uses normal display tech in their curved mobile displays, but i cannot remember what website hosted this article.
I own LG 55EC9300 OLED TV and i can tell you that LG's regular OLED tech. is as good as Samsung's. This is not straightforward correlation with mobile display tech. since i do not know of any OLED based phone of LG. My opinion is that LG's normal OLED tech. is just fine, just that they need to polish this POLED tech.

Mine's screen is ok on minimal brightness, however it is too bright on minimal and use Twilight. And than the screen is really grainy. But there is no way around it, 0% brightness is too much at night. I hate that. And there is too much white GUI. We need more BLACKS.

itflexes said:
Is it just me or the screen is grainy when in low light and in darker images?
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Coming from G2 to G Flex 2 I really noticed non-uniform solid colors on G Flex 2 and I found two solutions: raise average brightness (grain is much more noticeable on lower brightness setting) and get used to it. Really, second option helped me a lot, my eyes got used to this screen within a week and now I don't notice it and happy with overall screen quality. I understand that second solution is not for everyone.

wishod said:
Coming from G2 to G Flex 2 I really noticed non-uniform solid colors on G Flex 2 and I found two solutions: raise average brightness (grain is much more noticeable on lower brightness setting) and get used to it. Really, second option helped me a lot, my eyes got used to this screen within a week and now I don't notice it and happy with overall screen quality. I understand that second solution is not for everyone.
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yeah same here, i hardly notice it anymore. also coming from a nexus 5, the flex 2 screen is way way superior

le grande magnetto said:
Mine's screen is ok on minimal brightness, however it is too bright on minimal and use Twilight. And than the screen is really grainy. But there is no way around it, 0% brightness is too much at night. I hate that. And there is too much white GUI. We need more BLACKS.
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i agree. i use the app darker now. in lowest setting it's usable. but more black in GUI would bee better

Why didn't Huawei use an AMOLED screen vs IPS?

It's kind of a head scratcher. I compared it with my 3T and is pretty noticeable as on the 3t the colors are better. Was it to keep cost down?

Screen on time is much better than amoled when viewing mostly white content such as web pages.
Amoled tends to over saturate colours, lcd is more subdued but also more natural looking.
Rgb matrix gives better sharpness than the pentile matrix typically used in amoled screens.
Possible issues securing sufficient quantities if amoled panels.
Mate 9 screen is also brighter.
My last three daily drivers were the Note 7, Oneplus 3 and s7. There's definite advantages to amoled but there's advantages to lcd as well. Personally I have no complaints, Huawei have used a very high quality ips panel, so I'd be surprised if cost was the main motivator.
Sent from my MHA-L29 using Tapatalk

Exactly. People tend to hear AMOLED and think it's clear cut. It's not. Each tech has its own pros and cons.
Sent from my MHA-L29 using XDA Labs

I forgot to mention screen burn in - a problem that lcd panels don't face and which they still can't solve for amoled.
The screen on the Mate 9 is gorgeous, I've caught myself just staring at it a few times. Not once have I felt like it is a downgrade from the s7, and the s7 is a better panel than what the Oneplus has.
Sent from my MHA-L29 using Tapatalk

hackdrag0n said:
Screen on time is much better than amoled when viewing mostly white content such as web pages.
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Tell that to LG. Their phones are LCD yet have terrible battery life. Yet my Pixel XL and Samsung phones have had much better battery life despite using AMOLED... so this is not necessarily true.
hackdrag0n said:
Amoled tends to over saturate colours, lcd is more subdued but also more natural looking.
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Again, color calibration/saturation has NOTHING to do with screen tech. The manufacturer sets the color calibration/target. The Mate 9 IS OVER SATURATED. Not as much as most AMOLED phones, but it is not calibrated to sRGB by ANY means. AMOLED phones have typically over saturated because AMOLED has had much higher color coverage capability, and it was a strong selling point. I dislike over saturated colors, but love AMOLED when it is set to a reasonable target (sRGB or Adobe RGB). Contrast is extremely important for image quality, ESPECIALLY in dark viewing conditions. Fast pixel response time is hugely important for a smartphone to maintain a "clean" looking display when scrolling. The Mate 9 LCD is one of the worst I've seen. It has bad ghosting and/or overshoot artifacting which makes the problem even worse.
hackdrag0n said:
Rgb matrix gives better sharpness than the pentile matrix typically used in amoled screens.
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This is true. Maybe Samsung will bring back RGB for the S8. They used to have RGB AMOLED in older phones at one point, you know?
hackdrag0n said:
Mate 9 screen is also brighter.
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Not true. Samsung panels have high brightness modes under sunlight and other bright light sources. I can trigger this mode whenever I want using root and a kernel. My Pixel XL is brighter than my Mate 9.
Governa said:
Exactly. People tend to hear AMOLED and think it's clear cut. It's not. Each tech has its own pros and cons.
Sent from my MHA-L29 using XDA Labs
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It is clear cut. AMOLED is superior. It's why I spent nearly $6,000 for TWO TV's in my house that are AMOLED. The quality is mind blowing on a large screen, and once you realize its benefits there, you will never want an LCD again... even on your smartphone. At least that's the case with me. It's also why Apple is going for AMOLED with the iPhone 8... because they know it's better.

No, it's your opinion that amoled is superior. It's not a hard fact.
I'm also not sure how your pixel can be brighter when review sites have it listed at under 400 nits and the Mate 9 is listed at over 600.
Actually, I'll rephrase that: if contrast ratio is the most important factor to you then yes amoled is a must. Other than that I still maintain that there are still areas where lcd has advantages.
Sent from my MHA-L29 using Tapatalk

There are a lot of misconceptions about display technology.
As mentioned they each have advantages and disadvantages.
LCD has a very flat power consumption due to the fact that it's essentially white LEDs shining through color filters whereas AMOLED consist of individual pixels that combine to create color meaning that each LED will vary in consumption according to what is displayed meaning white requires all of them to shine at maximum to create white which is why AMOLED uses more power in that situation and no power when displaying pure black. LG has somewhat solved that on their TVs because they use 4 sub pixels: RGBW. They therefore create white separately and can save power that way.
AMOLED is only oversaturated because it is naturally a wide gamut display. When uncalibrated it will look oversaturated because all content is pretty much sRGB which is a limited color space. Many manufacturers including Huawei don't bother calibrating their displays for accuracy.
Huawei most likely used LCD for the regular Mate 9 because no decent 6" AMOLED was available which explains why the Pro variant has a 5.5" display.
LCD has poor latencies which is also why the regular 9 doesn't support Daydream. OLED displays naturally has low latencies which is why all Daydream compatible phones are AMOLED.
AMOLED is more prone to burn-in and is also prone to display degradation due to each sub pixel aging at varying rates.
LCD displays have higher peak brightness and is therefore more easy to see in sunlight. On the other hand, AMOLED have individually controlled brightness meaning pure blacks can be attained (turning off pixels completely) whereas LCD have edge lit displays with poor control resulting in light bleeding and above-zero blacks resulting in grey-ish blacks because there will always be some light shining through. So the contrast is much greater and only limited by peak brightness on the AMOLED display.
AMOLED doesn't have RGB but RG-BG sub pixels resulting in some odd problems including potentially green tint and reduced display quality and sharpness. Pentile sucks but the yields are better I guess and it does have some advantages such as decreased power consumption.
Finally, an often overlooked issue: many modern LCD displays use voltage controlled display brightness regulation where all AMOLED displays use PWM. Why is this important? PWM can cause eye strain and headaches. Especially due to the low frequency of 240 Hz that many AMOLED displays use. Your eyes won't necessarily notice the flickering but they can be irritated by it anyway.
PS. Typed this on my phone... Should have switched to laptop. What a pain to do this write-up.

↑ now THAT is a great post. Kudos.
Sent from my MHA-L29 using XDA Labs

hackdrag0n said:
No, it's your opinion that amoled is superior. It's not a hard fact.
I'm also not sure how your pixel can be brighter when review sites have it listed at under 400 nits and the Mate 9 is listed at over 600.
Actually, I'll rephrase that: if contrast ratio is the most important factor to you then yes amoled is a must. Other than that I still maintain that there are still areas where lcd has advantages.
Sent from my MHA-L29 using Tapatalk
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Look at the world of TV's. As is sits, LG's OLED TV's are the pinnacle of displays. They are the absolute best. No question, no contest, every quality review site agrees, as do the owners (myself included). I said the Pixel is brighter because I have enabled the Samsung panel brightness boost mode via root and a custom kernel - it acts just like the sunlight brightness boost on the S7/S7E, except I can enable it whenever I want. It is just as bright, if not brighter, than the Mate 9. The only advantage LCD has today is higher peak brightness, and that is only true in TV's since they have much larger backlights. Cellphones, AMOLED is actually much better in terms of outdoor viewing as tested by GSM Arena, due to a combination of peak brightness and lower reflectivity. Other than the potential for burn-in/image retention, there is zero benefit to an LCD in a cell phone.
Trixanity said:
LG has somewhat solved that on their TVs because they use 4 sub pixels: RGBW. They therefore create white separately and can save power that way.
Huawei most likely used LCD for the regular Mate 9 because no decent 6" AMOLED was available which explains why the Pro variant has a 5.5" display.
AMOLED is more prone to burn-in and is also prone to display degradation due to each sub pixel aging at varying rates.
AMOLED doesn't have RGB but RG-BG sub pixels resulting in some odd problems including potentially green tint and reduced display quality and sharpness. Pentile sucks but the yields are better I guess and it does have some advantages such as decreased power consumption.
Finally, an often overlooked issue: many modern LCD displays use voltage controlled display brightness regulation where all AMOLED displays use PWM. Why is this important? PWM can cause eye strain and headaches. Especially due to the low frequency of 240 Hz that many AMOLED displays use. Your eyes won't necessarily notice the flickering but they can be irritated by it anyway.
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Someone who actually knows something about AMOLED too on XDA! It's like finding a unicorn... just a few things to add...
LG does add a 4th white subpixel in their TV's, but it's moreso to increase peak brightness and not really save power. When display white, there are actually 3 subpixels turned on (I believe it's red, blue, and white) so it's not making much difference there... but it is certainly brighter because ALL the subpixels are WHITE subpixels (red, blue, and green have color filters), so having a white subpixel without a color filter eliminates brightness loss on those subpixels.
It blows my mind that Huawei couldn't get a decent ~6" AMOLED panel. Motorola did it for the Nexus 6. And hell, Samsung made them a custom 6.6" AMOLED display for the Honor Note 8! Oh well... maybe Samsung wanted less competition against the S8.
I will say that AMOLED phone panels have had a nasty tendency to burn-in. I can't say how the 2016 panels perform in normal usage (store burn-in is not a fair baseline), but it seems to improve every year. Neither of my 2016 LG OLED TV's show any burn-in, and 1 of them has been used as a PC monitor its entire time. I have taken a few steps to mitigate it (I hide icons behind browser windows, have the task bar set to auto-hide, and turn the brightness down slightly), but nothing major and it is perfectly fine. Image retention and uneven wear on the display is often confused with burn-in. For instance, the nav bar on my Pixel XL is clearly visible if I go fullscreen on a gray background (the most obvious color for burn/IR tests), but that is mostly because the black pixels there just never get used... so they're actually brighter, ever so slightly, than the rest of the screen. By running a manual compensation cycle when I'm not using the phone (such as white noise, or inverted colors), it mostly fixes the issue. That is an acceptable trade-off to me, especially considering the fact that the nav bar is always there. My TV's run black-screen compensation cycles automatically every 8 hours or so (after shutdown), so this is the nature of the beast.
True about the RG-BG pentile garbage. But that's Samsung's doing since they have terrible yields with full RGB. They did make at least 1 phone years ago that had true RGB AMOLED, and they marketed that specific feature too, literally telling customers how much sharper RGB is compared to pentile! - funny how they went away from it. Probably why their OLED TV division failed as well, since RGB AMOLED is clearly impossible to produce good yields right now, especially at larger sizes. I am hoping that the S8 brings back RGB AMOLED in the mobile world... rumors say it will.
AMOLED phone panels certainly do use PWM, but LG OLED TV's do not use PWM.

Nitemare3219 said:
Look at the world of TV's. As is sits, LG's OLED TV's are the pinnacle of displays. They are the absolute best. No question, no contest, every quality review site agrees, as do the owners (myself included). I said the Pixel is brighter because I have enabled the Samsung panel brightness boost mode via root and a custom kernel - it acts just like the sunlight brightness boost on the S7/S7E, except I can enable it whenever I want. It is just as bright, if not brighter, than the Mate 9. The only advantage LCD has today is higher peak brightness, and that is only true in TV's since they have much larger backlights. Cellphones, AMOLED is actually much better in terms of outdoor viewing as tested by GSM Arena, due to a combination of peak brightness and lower reflectivity. Other than the potential for burn-in/image retention, there is zero benefit to an LCD in a cell phone.
Someone who actually knows something about AMOLED too on XDA! It's like finding a unicorn... just a few things to add...
LG does add a 4th white subpixel in their TV's, but it's moreso to increase peak brightness and not really save power. When display white, there are actually 3 subpixels turned on (I believe it's red, blue, and white) so it's not making much difference there... but it is certainly brighter because ALL the subpixels are WHITE subpixels (red, blue, and green have color filters), so having a white subpixel without a color filter eliminates brightness loss on those subpixels.
It blows my mind that Huawei couldn't get a decent ~6" AMOLED panel. Motorola did it for the Nexus 6. And hell, Samsung made them a custom 6.6" AMOLED display for the Honor Note 8! Oh well... maybe Samsung wanted less competition against the S8.
I will say that AMOLED phone panels have had a nasty tendency to burn-in. I can't say how the 2016 panels perform in normal usage (store burn-in is not a fair baseline), but it seems to improve every year. Neither of my 2016 LG OLED TV's show any burn-in, and 1 of them has been used as a PC monitor its entire time. I have taken a few steps to mitigate it (I hide icons behind browser windows, have the task bar set to auto-hide, and turn the brightness down slightly), but nothing major and it is perfectly fine. Image retention and uneven wear on the display is often confused with burn-in. For instance, the nav bar on my Pixel XL is clearly visible if I go fullscreen on a gray background (the most obvious color for burn/IR tests), but that is mostly because the black pixels there just never get used... so they're actually brighter, ever so slightly, than the rest of the screen. By running a manual compensation cycle when I'm not using the phone (such as white noise, or inverted colors), it mostly fixes the issue. That is an acceptable trade-off to me, especially considering the fact that the nav bar is always there. My TV's run black-screen compensation cycles automatically every 8 hours or so (after shutdown), so this is the nature of the beast.
True about the RG-BG pentile garbage. But that's Samsung's doing since they have terrible yields with full RGB. They did make at least 1 phone years ago that had true RGB AMOLED, and they marketed that specific feature too, literally telling customers how much sharper RGB is compared to pentile! - funny how they went away from it. Probably why their OLED TV division failed as well, since RGB AMOLED is clearly impossible to produce good yields right now, especially at larger sizes. I am hoping that the S8 brings back RGB AMOLED in the mobile world... rumors say it will.
AMOLED phone panels certainly do use PWM, but LG OLED TV's do not use PWM.
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This is the first time I've been called a unicorn. I like it.
Thanks for the correction on the LG OLED TVs. I was under the impression they used the W-pixel to both produce higher brightness and reduce the added power consumption from going full tilt on each of the other pixels. I did not know they used filters like that actually. I thought they used similar tech to Samsung but apparently not But that also explains why their yields are so different.
About Pentile: that phone was the Samsung Galaxy S2 (coincidentally my first Android phone) - released in 2011. I guess the yields weren't good enough and at the same time they wanted to increase screen density. Maybe it made the yields plummet and then pushing towards HD and full HD made it unfeasible. The S2 had a 800x480 resolution by the way.
I'm hoping the S8 can do away with both Pentile and PWM. Then I'd probably buy it instantly but that's wishful thinking.
PWM is apparently used to avoid hue shifts which I suspect might be because of the Pentile arrangement but I'm not sure. I've not seen measurements on the S2 but I've heard anecdotal evidence that it was actually not using PWM.
It might also explain why LG doesn't use it on their TVs; that they simply don't have that problem with hue shifts because their panels are so different. I wish LG would get back in the OLED display game for smaller screens including phones, tablets, laptops and monitors. It would be so awesome with some competition.
By the way, interesting note on the peak brightness. Can the brightness boost be maintained indefinitely or does it dim after a while? I know LG had a booster on their recent LCDs (of all things) and it dimmed shortly after. One thing I should note that the Mate 9 reaches up to 700 nits and that's not limited to auto brightness like Samsung's is meaning that you can manually boost it to that at all times. The Pixel XL only manages 400 in the same scenario but if you can boost the peak brightness through a mod and keep it there (perhaps even without auto brightness?) then that's impressive especially if goes over 700. I do believe 700 nits is about as bright as you'll get on a smartphone LCD. The only reason we even need it is because of sunlight. 700 nits would be blinding to my eyes in any other scenario
If only they could invent a display that could switch between being emissive and reflective with few drawbacks - that would solve a lot of problems.
Edit: forgot to address the Huawei panel. Whether Huawei could get a 6" panel for the phone or not is uncertain. I'm just guessing; I have no sources to back that up but it seems to be the case that they couldn't find a panel that suited their needs. They probably also had a good deal with JDI since they've used their panels for some years and AMOLED was only just about to become the expected standard. We've long seen LCD being used by most manufacturers - it's only in the recent year or two that it has spread to other brands than Samsung. I mean Apple, LG, HTC, Sony and Huawei have all been using LCD either exclusively or primarily. That's about to change in the coming years.
I'm thinking the AMOLED panels they could get weren't up to the standard they were looking for. The LCD panel they used was pretty damn good although poorly calibrated. Although now that I think of it the reason the Pro is is 5.5" might be more to do with the requirement for a curved display which limits their options quite a bit. Also, keep in mind a custom display is expensive so producing a phone on the scale of a Mate 9 would probably limit them to off-the-shelf components to avoid gutting their profit margins. I'm sure they could have gotten any display they wanted if they were willing to pay the price.
With that being said: there are probably many reasons not to go AMOLED for the regular Mate 9 and all we can do is guess what their reasons are.

Trixanity said:
About Pentile: that phone was the Samsung Galaxy S2 (coincidentally my first Android phone) - released in 2011. I guess the yields weren't good enough and at the same time they wanted to increase screen density. Maybe it made the yields plummet and then pushing towards HD and full HD made it unfeasible. The S2 had a 800x480 resolution by the way.
I'm hoping the S8 can do away with both PenTile and PWM. Then I'd probably buy it instantly but that's wishful thinking.
PWM is apparently used to avoid hue shifts which I suspect might be because of the Pentile arrangement but I'm not sure. I've not seen measurements on the S2 but I've heard anecdotal evidence that it was actually not using PWM.
It might also explain why LG doesn't use it on their TVs; that they simply don't have that problem with hue shifts because their panels are so different.
By the way, interesting note on the peak brightness. Can the brightness boost be maintained indefinitely or does it dim after a while? I know LG had a booster on their recent LCDs (of all things) and it dimmed shortly after. One thing I should note that the Mate 9 reaches up to 700 nits and that's not limited to auto brightness like Samsung's is meaning that you can manually boost it to that at all times. The Pixel XL only manages 400 in the same scenario but if you can boost the peak brightness through a mod and keep it there (perhaps even without auto brightness?) then that's impressive especially if goes over 700. I do believe 700 nits is about as bright as you'll get on a smartphone LCD. The only reason we even need it is because of sunlight. 700 nits would be blinding to my eyes in any other scenario
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The S2... man, long time ago. They probably only managed RGB because of the low resolution and/or realized then just how bad the yields were.
I've never noticed PWM, so it's no issue for me. I believe the color hue shifts when viewing at an angle is actually because the display is pentile. LG's OLED TV's have mind blowing viewing angles - it is essentially perfect no matter where you view from in terms of color, AND the brightness does not decrease either like on an LCD - forgot to mention that too! LCD panels get much dimmer if you view off-axis... OLED do not.
As far as I know, the Pixel can maintain the brightness boost indefinitely. I have used it for upwards of 20 minutes or so before. I can manually enable it via widget, or have it set to function automatically as well. I'm not sure I want to test long periods of time though... there could be a downside to it over time (perhaps why Samsung does not allow it to be user enabled). I know LG's phones in the past have quickly turned down their peak brightness due to heat issues. I wonder if the Mate 9 could suffer from the same problem eventually? Probably not seeing as how Apple manages to have displays that bright as well without issue. I think LG's mobile division is just really, really lacking right now. Hopefully they bring OLED to their phones again soon (they've used P-OLED a few times, and I experienced it in their Watch Urbane LTE 2nd edition smartwatch, and that was fantastic).

Nitemare3219 said:
The S2... man, long time ago. They probably only managed RGB because of the low resolution and/or realized then just how bad the yields were.
I've never noticed PWM, so it's no issue for me. I believe the color hue shifts when viewing at an angle is actually because the display is pentile. LG's OLED TV's have mind blowing viewing angles - it is essentially perfect no matter where you view from in terms of color, AND the brightness does not decrease either like on an LCD - forgot to mention that too! LCD panels get much dimmer if you view off-axis... OLED do not.
As far as I know, the Pixel can maintain the brightness boost indefinitely. I have used it for upwards of 20 minutes or so before. I can manually enable it via widget, or have it set to function automatically as well. I'm not sure I want to test long periods of time though... there could be a downside to it over time (perhaps why Samsung does not allow it to be user enabled). I know LG's phones in the past have quickly turned down their peak brightness due to heat issues. I wonder if the Mate 9 could suffer from the same problem eventually? Probably not seeing as how Apple manages to have displays that bright as well without issue. I think LG's mobile division is just really, really lacking right now. Hopefully they bring OLED to their phones again soon (they've used P-OLED a few times, and I experienced it in their Watch Urbane LTE 2nd edition smartwatch, and that was fantastic).
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Just a heads up, I've added an edit to my previous post.
I wish I could afford an OLED TV One would be foolish not to pick up an LG OLED TV over any LCD display out there today (barring the price that is).
I don't think maintaining peak brightness is an issue unless you're standing out in direct sunlight all day with your phone. I mean you wouldn't switch to manual brightness and crank it up when you're inside. Most probably use auto brightness anyway and that means it won't be anywhere near the maximum unless you're outside. I'm sure it might reduce the lifespan of the LEDs or maybe increase the likelihood of a defect.
I was actually quite intrigued by LG's G Flex series (aka banana phone) which had a P-OLED display. It might be a bit gimmicky especially the 'self-healing' back cover but it looked different but it was plagued by poor sales and the second iteration was let down by the Snapdragon 810.
The G6 will have their new 18:9 (2:1 really) 5.7" LCD display. It will have 2880 x 1440 resolution. So not this time.

While beautiful, oled tv's are **** for gaming due to the horrendous input lag. They can also suffer from burn in. Oled/amoled may be the technology of the future if they sort the niggling issues. Right now lcd still has merits. Quantum dot might bring lcd to the fore again though, time will tell
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hackdrag0n said:
While beautiful, oled tv's are **** for gaming due to the horrendous input lag. They can also suffer from burn in. Oled/amoled may be the technology of the future if they sort the niggling issues. Right now lcd still has merits. Quantum dot might bring lcd to the fore again though, time will tell
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I doubt the input lag stems from the panel technology. Input lag is usually related to processing lag in the display controller and other IC. However they can achieve 1 ms response time and theoretically 100000 Hz refresh rate, so it has the potential to be the best gaming display technology ever.
As previously mentioned: what many consider burn-in is merely image retention which is very much reversible and it does continue to get better in that regard.

Trixanity said:
I doubt the input lag stems from the panel technology. Input lag is usually related to processing lag in the display controller and other IC. However they can achieve 1 ms response time and theoretically 100000 Hz refresh rate, so it has the potential to be the best gaming display technology ever.
As previously mentioned: what many consider burn-in is merely image retention which is very much reversible and it does continue to get better in that regard.
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Well "burn-in" is actually the leds "burning" so there is no way to recover them.

Lodix said:
Well "burn-in" is actually the leds "burning" so there is no way to recover them.
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That doesn't really refute what I said. That's merely an explanation for what burn-in is. What I said is that many think image retention is burn-in when they're two different things (or more accurately you could say that the symptoms are the same but the prognosis is different especially if given the right medication - so to speak). Image retention is reversible as I said.

Trixanity said:
That doesn't really refute what I said. That's merely an explanation for what burn-in is. What I said is that many think image retention is burn-in when they're two different things (or more accurately you could say that the symptoms are the same but the prognosis is different especially if given the right medication - so to speak). Image retention is reversible as I said.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But the problem with oled panels is the burn-in, not the retention. Maybe this year they have manged to solve it someway since Apple is implementing it in their iPhones and people are very nitpicking with their devices.
PD: I am all over AMOLED panels, it is one of the reason why I got the 9 Pro.

I don't mind a quality 1080 panel. Huawei makes me rethink my love of AMOLED displays.
I personally don't see a major difference unless it's the newest Samsung flagship. Not a major change from my 6p or Nexus 6 but these weren't cream of the crop AMOLED displays.
I truly thought this would be the mate that got the qhd AMOLED especially after the honor note 8 that released not long before this one. Extremely happy with the LCD panel.
Last 2 LCD phones I used was LeEco s1 and lg v10. The s1 had a great LCD panel that look AMOLED. Lg v10 just looked washed out most of the time.

hackdrag0n said:
While beautiful, oled tv's are **** for gaming due to the horrendous input lag. They can also suffer from burn in. Oled/amoled may be the technology of the future if they sort the niggling issues. Right now lcd still has merits. Quantum dot might bring lcd to the fore again though, time will tell
Sent from my MHA-L29 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're wrong. In 2015, yes they were ****. I had an EG9600 and it had about 50ms of input lag. I have 2 2016 TV's now, a C6 and a B6. The B6 just got an update and it does 28ms of input lag at 4:2:2, but close to 70ms at 4:4:4. The C6 does 34ms of input lag at either setting (4:2:2, or 4:4:4). The lag is NOT noticeable at all, and part of this is because the pixels respond instantly to new frames (<.1ms) whereas IPS and VA can take MANY milliseconds to update the pixels - some panels take dozens of milliseconds for a full transition for some colors. OLED is the fastest refresh for a panel today. My C6 has hundreds of hours of PC use ONLY, and has ZERO burn in... NONE.
Lodix said:
But the problem with oled panels is the burn-in, not the retention. Maybe this year they have manged to solve it someway since Apple is implementing it in their iPhones and people are very nitpicking with their devices.
PD: I am all over AMOLED panels, it is one of the reason why I got the 9 Pro.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem is a lot of people mistake burn-in for image retention because they don't come back and check again later after viewing different content on the display for awhile. I will say that burn-in can be an issue for phones though, depending on how you use them/set them up. My friend's S5 has the keyboard ghosted/burned into the display. He must text a LOT or something. Blew my mind when I saw that.

hackdrag0n said:
While beautiful, oled tv's are **** for gaming due to the horrendous input lag.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not in Gaming/PC Mode on the most recent models. On the 2017 OLED the input lag is 21ms in virtually all situations.
Trixanity said:
I wish I could afford an OLED TV One would be foolish not to pick up an LG OLED TV over any LCD display out there today (barring the price that is).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For pricing, you just have to wait until Black Friday for deals on the current year's models. That's the best time to buy a TV that will last you many years. Picked up the LG 65" C7P for $1900 last Fall. I wouldn't consider Samsung's QLED TV's over LG's RGBW OLED. However, there is the advantage of luminance. QLED have a higher luminance. Also keep in mind that although RGBW is not Pentile and doesn't suffer from inferior sub-resolution, you do lose color volume to an extent when using the higher levels of luminance (You'll be depending on the additional white sub-pixel). I'd say this is a fairly tertiary concern but could be important if you use the OLED in a bright living room. If using a dark room, there's absolutely no contest. Personally, I have the C7P in a living room and still completely satisfied. There's a reason why it's a champ on every review site. Oh and for reference, all the LG 2017 OLED have essentially the same panel irregardless of price.
Trixanity said:
About Pentile: that phone was the Samsung Galaxy S2 (coincidentally my first Android phone) - released in 2011. I guess the yields weren't good enough and at the same time they wanted to increase screen density. Maybe it made the yields plummet and then pushing towards HD and full HD made it unfeasible. The S2 had a 800x480 resolution by the way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Samsung Galaxy Note II (2012) also had a Full RGB AMOLED Display (720P HD). That was the last time for phones. However, Samsung also still does Full RGB AMOLED for the larger 9.7" models in their premium lines of tablets (Galaxy Tab S2, Tab S3). Those have the same 4:3 resolution as the iPad (2048x1536). The 10.5" Galaxy Tab S has a 2560x1600 Full RGB AMOLED Display as well. I certainly hope Samsung turns away from Pentile sometime in the future, but I don't think they'll do so anytime soon for smartphones. However, there is some hope.

Does the screen have ghosting (low response rate)?

As it's a poor quality IPS, does the screen have any ghosting? I can't find an answer in any review. My old Oneplus 3T and dirt cheap Mi Max 2 also had IPS screens but they had zero ghosting, then I bought a Mate 20 which cost 3x more yet that DOES have ghosting, so if a high-end phone has ghosting it's likely the Zenfone 6 does too, especially if most people are saying it's a poor quality IPS.
This is the only video that mentions it has ghosting but it's the one guy, so I wanted more opinions to confirm:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8EH9_BEpAA

Vicxx said:
This is the only video that mentions it has ghosting but it's the one guy, so I wanted more opinions to confirm:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8EH9_BEpAA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you mean this part?
https://youtu.be/U8EH9_BEpAA?t=125

I had the G5S+, where I noticed ghosting. Coming to the zenfone I was concerned about the same stuff but there is significantly less ghosting on this screen. I'm actually not sure there are ghosting, if it is its miniscule.

_jis_ said:
Did you mean this part?
https://youtu.be/U8EH9_BEpAA?t=125
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes the way he describes it is exactly how I feel about my Mate 20, I'm thinking it might be using the same display. It's an amazing screen but as soon as I start scrolling text and images becomes blurry and I've never seen it this bad since the early 2000s LCD screens.
leiros said:
I had the G5S+, where I noticed ghosting. Coming to the zenfone I was concerned about the same stuff but there is significantly less ghosting on this screen. I'm actually not sure there are ghosting, if it is its miniscule.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what other phones have you used? the G5S+ has an IPS so it could've had ghosting.

Vicxx said:
yes the way he describes it is exactly how I feel about my Mate 20, I'm thinking it might be using the same display. It's an amazing screen but as soon as I start scrolling text and images becomes blurry and I've never seen it this bad since the early 2000s LCD screens.
what other phones have you used? the G5S+ has an IPS so it could've had ghosting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nexus 4, Galaxy S3, Xperia Z2, Lenovo P2, G5S+ and this Zenfone 6.

I just tested it side by side with the HTC U11, it's actually more fluid than that one. Though I believe it has slightly smaller viewing angles.
I also think it's PWM free, it's quite ok to watch for longer periods. For comparison, the display on the LG G7 gave me a weird sensation (that one had PWM).

kvrx said:
I just tested it side by side with the HTC U11, it's actually more fluid than that one. Though I believe it has slightly smaller viewing angles.
I also think it's PWM free, it's quite ok to watch for longer periods. For comparison, the display on the LG G7 gave me a weird sensation (that one had PWM).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The G7 used PWM at a frequency of 1,174Hz, and then only at 42% brightness and below. If you're capable of noticing that you should go talk to Guinness about your record-breaking visual abilities.

Should I get a Pixel 3a after a Sony Compact?

Hello, I have different questions on this device and I would be really thankfull if someone can answer at some of them.
I come from xperia xz2 compact which overall is great but app side looks outdate. No gesture system and sony apps are the same of two years ago.
I know the Pixel is bigger but I don't see any real alternative now. So here come my questions...
It's my first OLED. Is it true that they not last as long as LCD? I hope to use this phone for 2 years at last.
Does this pixel get all the updates and features of newer pixels? All base apps get updated?
Can I disable some of the google apps like I do on other phones?
Can I remove the google search on home or the pixel launcher is not giving me choice?
Does the kernel get higher over time or like other phones it get stuck on the release one?
Is there anything weird about pixel that you don't usually get on other phones?
Yeah I know that the cpu is a downgrade. But maybe I care more to get fresh software.
Thank you so much if you spend time to give me some hint.

xperianotfun said:
Hello, I have different questions on this device and I would be really thankfull if someone can answer at some of them.
I come from xperia xz2 compact which overall is great but app side looks outdate. No gesture system and sony apps are the same of two years ago.
I know the Pixel is bigger but I don't see any real alternative now. So here come my questions...
It's my first OLED. Is it true that they not last as long as LCD? I hope to use this phone for 2 years at last.
Does this pixel get all the updates and features of newer pixels? All base apps get updated?
Can I disable some of the google apps like I do on other phones?
Can I remove the google search on home or the pixel launcher is not giving me choice?
Does the kernel get higher over time or like other phones it get stuck on the release one?
Is there anything weird about pixel that you don't usually get on other phones?
Yeah I know that the cpu is a downgrade. But maybe I care more to get fresh software.
Thank you so much if you spend time to give me some hint.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been using this smartphone for 6 months now and my previous one was a Sony Xperia XZ2 , so it's basically the same situation as yours.
I always loved Sony smartphones and I keep doing it, but Pixels are on a totally different level, I would suggest the upgrade.
Anyway, to answer to your questions:
-It's my first OLED too, but I doubt it will last less than 2 years
-Yes it does, unless they are exclusive of newer models (Pixel 4). Since the launch of Pixel 4 they already ported to the 3a Astrophotography, Live Captions, Styles personalizations, etc.. But Google said that they are not going to bring for example other things like the contrast slider for photo shoots, which remains a Pixel 4 exclusive
-Yes
-The google search bar is integrated into the launcher, you should change launcher in order to get rid of it
-I didn't check the version over the updates, but at the moment is 4.9.185
-Nothing weird, IMHO is a powerful device with a great price

marcogiannetta said:
I've been using this smartphone for 6 months now and my previous one was a Sony Xperia XZ2 , so it's basically the same situation as yours.
I always loved Sony smartphones and I keep doing it, but Pixels are on a totally different level, I would suggest the upgrade.
Anyway, to answer to your questions:
-It's my first OLED too, but I doubt it will last less than 2 years
-Yes it does, unless they are exclusive of newer models (Pixel 4). Since the launch of Pixel 4 they already ported to the 3a Astrophotography, Live Captions, Styles personalizations, etc.. But Google said that they are not going to bring for example other things like the contrast slider for photo shoots, which remains a Pixel 4 exclusive
-Yes
-The google search bar is integrated into the launcher, you should change launcher in order to get rid of it
-I didn't check the version over the updates, but at the moment is 4.9.185
-Nothing weird, IMHO is a powerful device with a great price
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for you time. :angel:
That kernel version is the initial android 10 kernel. So they maybe update only on new android big versions.
Would you say that the screen quality is good compared compared to xz2? Can colors be natural? I'm using professional colors on mine.
You basically come from my same device. So it's nice to see that you see the pixel as an upgrade.

xperianotfun said:
Thank you for you time. :angel:
That kernel version is the initial android 10 kernel. So they maybe update only on new android big versions.
Would you say that the screen quality is good compared compared to xz2? Can colors be natural? I'm using professional colors on mine.
You basically come from my same device. So it's nice to see that you see the pixel as an upgrade.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, to be honest I consider the two displays almost on the same level, cause the xz2's LCD was way better than any other LCD I've seen around.
The 3a OLED is very good for its price, but under strong sunlight it may struggle to be visible.

xperianotfun said:
Would you say that the screen quality is good compared compared to xz2? Can colors be natural? I'm using professional colors on mine.
You basically come from my same device. So it's nice to see that you see the pixel as an upgrade.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Regarding the display, it's really is not very bright, but custom kernels (e.g. ElementalX, I think) can provide a high brightness mode for direct sunlight.
If you want a really long in-depth review, xda's Dylan Raga has written a display review, but there's also a quick overview as Pros and Cons.
For other users' opinions, there is always the Real Life Review forum section to check out, it also has a display section.
Personally I also use the Natural profile. It seems bland at first compared to Adaptive (default setting), because it's not slightly oversaturated, but given Natural is more accurate, I'm quite happy without the additional color pop.

marcogiannetta said:
Pixels are on a totally different level, I would suggest the upgrade.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
May I ask you why you find Pixel so better?
sysuicrash0511 said:
Personally I also use the Natural profile. It seems bland at first compared to Adaptive (default setting), because it's not slightly oversaturated, but given Natural is more accurate, I'm quite happy without the additional color pop.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. That article is really intersting. But what is scaring me now about OLED is that often people get headache since the screen flickers.
Based on this review: https://www.notebookcheck.net/PWM-Ranking-Notebooks-Smartphones-and-Tablets-with-PWM.163979.0.html
Over 500 Hz should not be an issue but under 250 Hz it could. This pixel is just 270 Hz...
My phone is 2381 Hz and the phone I had before it had no flickering at all.

xperianotfun said:
May I ask you why you find Pixel so better?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Camera (and flash, which was ridiculous on the xperia) and audio are two of the main reasons.
Also battery is a huge improvement to me, cause I use to cover about 5 hours of SOT with the XZ2, now I get up to 7.
The only thing I miss is Dynamic Vibration, it was such a nice feature

xperianotfun said:
Thanks. That article is really intersting. But what is scaring me now about OLED is that often people get headache since the screen flickers.
Based on this review: https://www.notebookcheck.net/PWM-Ranking-Notebooks-Smartphones-and-Tablets-with-PWM.163979.0.html
Over 500 Hz should not be an issue but under 250 Hz it could. This pixel is just 270 Hz...
My phone is 2381 Hz and the phone I had before it had no flickering at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is news to me, so I did some research.
In case it's also news to someone else, these frequencies aren't related to display refresh rate, which flagship nowadays increase above 60hz.
From what I understand (as a layman) it's basically modulating the current or voltage to an average by switching the supply on and off within that frequency, effectively controlling brightness.
I can't say I did experience headaches or eye strain, so I might not be the best person to answer this, but I usually use my phones' display quite dim. Shouldn't the frequency decrease and make flickering more noticeable (more waves and longer intervals being off)? Maybe I'm getting it wrong though.
What also caught my attention in your linked table is how many other popular phones sit around these lower frequencies, and only one iPhone ranks slightly higher than the 3a. There are LCDs as well, maybe it's not limited to OLED. But there surely is someone more knowledgeable than me.

Just a quick review. The screen is not even comparable with the xz2c. It feels cheap. But the worst part is the view angle. If you are not in front of the screen the colors really change a lot. And you tend to see the colors changing while you use the phone. ?
You get used to it though. Is just weird if you compare them.
If the screen is all black there is some fading lighter on some side.
On really low light I notice that as example, the keyboard have a shade color instead of being unique.
Night light is less warm.
I don't get stressed by eyes or mind looking at it.
The pixel launcher doesn't allow me to even disable the "ok google" voice detection. I'm considering to swap it. But not sure what will happen with the app switcher.
(if you don't use google at all you can disable the google app and this will disable voice detection while the search bar will be still there as just a picture doing nothing)
Everything else is fine. The phone feels really great in hand and is lighter. Charging is faster.
I'm noticing how feature that are missing versus pixel 4 are not all relevant to hardward or whatever. And some of them are nonsense. Like live wallpapers. So I'm not sure how much really updated the Pixel will stay in time versus another phone except security patches.

I just got used to the screen. And now looks just fine. Except the angle view but I don't care enough. Also the touch is so responsive.
I think this phone is amzing. Is all around balanced, the experience is fluid and clean. So handy and light. Also doesn't attract dust at all. Fast charge.
I'm enjoing display ambient always on, I never thought that could be a good thing but it's really nice.
I just forgot I'm using this phone, it just doesn't distract me.
I would not say photos are so much better in general but they are just a lot better in not perfect light condition.

Checked my screen for a few minutes. There is indeed a *slight* variation in colors when viewing at an angle, which is noticeable only on white backgrounds (and I am in dark mode
Screen should last much longer than 2 years: especially in the EU where legal warranty is 2y.

jerome.jh said:
Checked my screen for a few minutes. There is indeed a *slight* variation in colors when viewing at an angle, which is noticeable only on white backgrounds (and I am in dark mode
Screen should last much longer than 2 years: especially in the EU where legal warranty is 2y.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah it's not that much. It was just the first sight. If you come from lcd for like your life, oled is really weird. But you get used to it really easy and after that it's great.
I hope it last. This phone is perfect for basic use.

Glass? back & screen brightness

So yesterday my N20 Ultra arrived from wondamobile (highly recommended, everything went smooth), and I'm quite happy.
I do have 2 questions though:
- Is the back really made of glass? Everyone says it is, but it feels completely different from my Oneplus 7 pro (and yes, I know for certain I don't have the non-ultra). The glass on my Oneplus feels cool to the touch, while the note doesn't. It also sounds different when you tap them with your nails.
- I heard this phone had the highest peak brightness of any screen. On the highest non-adaptive setting my Oneplus 7 Pro gets much brighter. Is this just Samsung limiting the max brightness, or is this a random difference in panel quality or something? I saw Lew from Unbox therapy also had potentially related questions about the display.

I made a return of my N9860 256gb. Compared to Note 9, theNote 20 ultra's brightness sucks! I order a new 512gb model. I hope will get luck with last one

These displays should be able to get very bright...
http://www.displaymate.com/Galaxy_Note20_ShootOut_1N.htm

there are simply Note 20 ultra that have dimmer screens, mine was one of them.

manager77 said:
there are simply Note 20 ultra that have dimmer screens, mine was one of them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Firmware glitch it sounds like... bad Samsung

It isn't a Hardware fault. Samsung limited the manual max brightness limit to be like that , so you only get the full brightness in adaptive brightness mode under direct sunlight

manager77 said:
there are simply Note 20 ultra that have dimmer screens, mine was one of them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hoss_n2 said:
It isn't a Hardware fault. Samsung limited the manual max brightness limit to be like that , so you only get the full brightness in adaptive brightness mode under direct sunlight
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So can you manually jack it up?
I never use adaptive brightness, lol it never worked right and still doesn't.
I don't want to kill my OLEDs or my eyes so typically it's at about the half way point or less on the 10+
The 20 U gets even brighter...
Using these devices in the sun is sort of asking for it.