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I finally received my little square card reader from Squareup today. I'm anxious to get a chance to use it.
I'm curious if anyone else has gotten one yet and started using it on a regular basis. What do you think of it? I'm also wondering if anyone one out there has found some other uses for it? Near as I can tell, it's a standard magnetic reader head, so there's not reason it couldn't read any magnetic striped card. I think it'd be cool of those password/credit card/bank account app could use this dongle to read your card number instead of having to type it in manually. I've already used an audio recording app and successfully swiped and recorded the audio stream that comes from the reader.
So what are your guy's thoughts, idea's, suggestions for this niftly little dongle. Will it survive, or is it destined to be another Cuecat
Mine came in yesterday. I'm waiting for someone braver than I to crack one open to see if there is more to it than just a magnetic read head and male headphone jack. It would be neat if we discover a microcontroller flashed with a code that pairs each device specifically to the users account. But really I'm hoping it's just a simple set of components so that I could easily fabricate a new one if mine gets lost/broken.
Can you please post your apks?
I just dont see it in market.
luvit said:
Can you please post your apks?
I just dont see it in market.
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Click to collapse
What APK's are you looking for?
garfnodie said:
What APK's are you looking for?
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Squareup apk fot credit cards
luvit said:
Squareup apk fot credit cards
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Click to collapse
Sorry, stupid moment. I don't know how to pull APK off my phone. Here's a link that includes a QR code that I'm sure will you get you to the market page.
http://www.doubletwist.com/apps/android/Square/-4760093326407457649/
So I received the card reader, but I haven't been successful with using it up to this point. I have a Galaxy S Vibrant, and when I follow the instructions for swiping credit cards absolutely nothing happens in the square app. Has anyone accepted payments successfully with the card reader, and if so what are you doing differently?
EDIT: Sorry about posting on this in Nexus One section. Although I'm not currently testing on a Nexus One the problem I'm having is hopefully more related to the application or OS than it is the hardware, and this is the only discussion related to Squareup on this forum.
joshuapurcell said:
So I received the card reader, but I haven't been successful with using it up to this point.
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Click to collapse
Try testing the card reader using an audio recording app like garfnodie did. If you don't get some kind of whooshing sound on your recording, then there's a chance you've got a bad reader. But if you do get sound, then I'd say it is a hardware compatibility issue with your Galaxy.
BTW, do you get the card reader icon pop up in Square when you plug/unplug your reader?
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/7183/readeryes.png
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/6443/readerno.png
I wasn't getting that icon in my initial tests, but I am now that I pull the card reader out of the phone just a little. There is a certain point where I leave it that the icon stays solid and the app appears like it is ready to accept a swipe, but swiping the card does not start the authorizing process. Most degrees of pulling the card reader out of this phone only results in the icon disappearing or it constantly appearing then quickly disappearing.
I tested my card reader on a Droid X today and it worked fine, so I'm assuming this issue is most likely related to using the card reader on a Samsung Vibrant. I am running a custom ROM (Bionix 1.6 at the moment) which may have an impact on audio jack functionality, but I'm not sure. I'll need to try other ROMs and see if the audio jack behavior is any different.
I've found that using a normal headset in the same way that I described with the card reader behaves identically. The app shows the icon but in either case I'm unable to successfully swipe a card.
EDIT: I've also found that the Samsung Vibrant does video out via the 3.5mm audio jack. I'm leaning towards this being the cause as to why the card reader doesn't work with this new audio jack. Here is more information:
http://www.wirefly.com/learn/wireless_news/confirmed-samsung-vibrant-tv-out-menu/
If I toggle video out on, then I can't get the Square application to see anything plugged in. If I keep video out toggled off, then I get the level of functionality described above. If it turns out that this is the reason for the issue, then I hope it can be solved via a software update on either the Android or Square side (rather than a hardware issue). I've opened a ticket with Squareup with all this information.
joshuapurcell said:
I've found that using a normal headset in the same way that I described with the card reader behaves identically. The app shows the icon but in either case I'm unable to successfully swipe a card.
EDIT: I've also found that the Samsung Vibrant does video out via the 3.5mm audio jack. I'm leaning towards this being the cause as to why the card reader doesn't work with this new audio jack. Here is more information:
http://www.wirefly.com/learn/wireless_news/confirmed-samsung-vibrant-tv-out-menu/
If I toggle video out on, then I can't get the Square application to see anything plugged in. If I keep video out toggled off, then I get the level of functionality described above. If it turns out that this is the reason for the issue, then I hope it can be solved via a software update on either the Android or Square side (rather than a hardware issue). I've opened a ticket with Squareup with all this information.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never even noticed that the card reader uses four conductors until I read your post about your problem and took a closer look at my card reader. A standard headphone jack uses three conductors(left, right, ground), most cell phone jacks use four conductors(left, right, mic, ground). Now if the Captivate can switch that fourth conductor from mic in to video out when needed, then it certainly sounds like a software issue, just don't know whos problem it and to fix.
Someone else posted in the Vibrant forums saying they have had success in getting the card reader to work while using a specific ROM:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=806795
So this means it may not be a hardware problem with the card reader or the Vibrant, and that the software issue may be on the OS side and fixable via changes to whatever ROM being used. I haven't done the testing yet due to time, but I will hopefully today. The updates to this issue will be in the linked thread above going forward since it seems to be isolated to the Vibrant and we now have a Square discussion in that appropriate forum.
this actually looks awesome. I guess it converts what it reads into audio that the program can pick up. What the hell is the usage though?
/me thinks
I guess it would be awesome for when I work on peoples computers and websites, they can pay me right there. Pretty slick.
player911 said:
this actually looks awesome. I guess it converts what it reads into audio that the program can pick up. What the hell is the usage though?
/me thinks
I guess it would be awesome for when I work on peoples computers and websites, they can pay me right there. Pretty slick.
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I can see this being great for swap meets, flea markets, or trade shows or anything for that matter where your selling products or services and want to be able to take and approve credit/debit card sales on the spot.
garfnodie said:
I can see this being great for swap meets, flea markets, or trade shows or anything for that matter where your selling products or services and want to be able to take and approve credit/debit card sales on the spot.
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Yea. Actually my friend is trying to start up a Transmission Repair shop and really fell in love with the idea of being able to accept credit cards on the go.
luvit said:
Can you please post your apks?
I just dont see it in market.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just called Square in the market...
Just got mine
Just got mine and I cant wait to start using it I was having problems with the icon not showing up and I just uninstalled/installed and that fixed it.
I haven't received my unit yet, but has anyone had any issues with it? I've looked into it and supposedly it's capped to $100 per transaction and I think your capped on the number of times you can use it per day.
Also I heard the reader may take multiple swipes before the software actually picks up on it.
I don't think the cap will be a big issue for me, but I would trust the opinions of the people here more then random bashes on the internet.
Would be neat if you are a Craigslist whore. Not only would you be able to take credit/check cards, but you'd also get a receipt of the transaction as well.
Q
player911 said:
I haven't received my unit yet, but has anyone had any issues with it? I've looked into it and supposedly it's capped to $100 per transaction and I think your capped on the number of times you can use it per day.
Also I heard the reader may take multiple swipes before the software actually picks up on it.
I don't think the cap will be a big issue for me, but I would trust the opinions of the people here more then random bashes on the internet.
Would be neat if you are a Craigslist whore. Not only would you be able to take credit/check cards, but you'd also get a receipt of the transaction as well.
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Here is the FAQ on Square's page about the fee's, transaction limits, etc.
https://support.squareup.com/entries/160793-frequently-asked-questions-faq#card-fees
daijizai said:
Just called Square in the market...
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Yes, the exact name is Square. Are you in the US? It's only available in the US right now.
http://www.appbrain.com/app/square/com.squareup
So I've had a project for the last few months getting Android running as an infotainment system. Here is a demo i thought i'd share with you guys..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNcDq9S8n3I
Basic features:
Android 2.1 (looking to update to GB)
7inch touch-screen (800x480)
3G modem
GPS
Reverse camera (backup camera to see what's behind you)
USB port
would love to hear some criticism or anything regarding the device.. its not perfect, its got a few bugs and glitches.. but is sort of ready for everyday use but is missing a few components to make it 'official' android device (wifi, bluetooth etc).. but i'm just wondering if anyone is interested in something like this? Is this worth developing further on?
This thing runs on Cortex a8 omap3530 board and is based off 0xdroid build.
apologies if im in the wrong forum
Wow dude, thats really cool! I'd love one of these for my car. If you could get Honeycomb on that bad boy it'd be sweet! Just wondering, how do you plan on setting up a rear view camera? Just connect a camera at the back of the car to the tablet itself, then run the Camera app? Seems like the simplest way to me..
Haha cheers love to see the honeycomb source once its out then we'll talk although I'd imagine i'd need better hardware...
currently camera is interfaced by usb (has a usb hub) so i got a cable running under the carpet through the boot then camera is mounted on the bumper. yup camera is called by any camera calling intent.. so any app can use it.
I want to get some proximity sensors (like parking sensors) and write a proper reverse cam app to complement it. But we'll see...
Very cool!
I've been wanting to do this for a while, but I was going to use MeeGo or maybe Moblin since I don't have the programming skills (or Android knowledge for that matter) to build my own computer around Android. I dig what you got so far though.
My suggestion for the reverse camera is one of two things, because it would bug me to have to find and open the camera app every time I needed to back up.
Keep your touchscreen (what model are you using BTW?) and use a bluetooth or wi-fi relay (I know they make 'em, but they are $$$) to provide an input from +12V signal from your reverse light wire to automatically open the camera app, then close the app. Of course, you'd have to program for that.
Or
Have you considered this touch screen? Lilliput 7" touch screen with auto-reverse input. (Needs a RCA camera though)
http://store.mp3car.com/Lilliput_629GL_70NP_C_T_7_VGA_Touchscreen_w_Aut_p/MON-016-0002.htm
This is the one I plan on using since it switches automatically to the camera input whenever you are in reverse. Once you go back to any other gear, the OS input shows up again.
Just a thought to make life a little more convenient (although you already bought your parts so you may be stuck.)
chjade84 said:
Very cool!
I've been wanting to do this for a while, but I was going to use MeeGo or maybe Moblin since I don't have the programming skills (or Android knowledge for that matter) to build my own computer around Android. I dig what you got so far though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks a lot! It needs a lot of time and dedication but it's a real good learning curve. I had to learn a lot of things on the way.. especially c/c++ I wasn't great at but had decent skills with higher level programming.
If you are planning to work with MeeGo its a little fussy with the hardware requirements.. Correct me if i'm wrong, but I think you need an Intel Atom processor. These are a little pricey if you're after an evaluation/hackable kit! But I'd imagine it'll be easier to program as it's a lot more closey coupled with linux.
chjade84 said:
My suggestion for the reverse camera is one of two things, because it would bug me to have to find and open the camera app every time I needed to back up.
Keep your touchscreen (what model are you using BTW?) and use a bluetooth or wi-fi relay (I know they make 'em, but they are $$$) to provide an input from +12V signal from your reverse light wire to automatically open the camera app, then close the app. Of course, you'd have to program for that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just had a look at those relays, sounds like its something I really need! Is this how the standard backup cameras work? That was something I was confused about.. I wasn't sure how to detect if i'm on reverse.. especially with the parts I already had. I'd imagine once you implement it you just need a service running in the background to listen for the relay.
The touchscreen is a TFT resistive 4wire touch-screen. It's not something I want to keep as I really want capacitive multi-touch.. But this fits perfectly with the board and was easier to deal with
chjade84 said:
Or
Have you considered this touch screen? Lilliput 7" touch screen with auto-reverse input. (Needs a RCA camera though)
http://store.mp3car.com/Lilliput_629GL_70NP_C_T_7_VGA_Touchscreen_w_Aut_p/MON-016-0002.htm
This is the one I plan on using since it switches automatically to the camera input whenever you are in reverse. Once you go back to any other gear, the OS input shows up again.
Just a thought to make life a little more convenient (although you already bought your parts so you may be stuck.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice find! I wish I saw that earlier .. Quite pricey but would make life so much easierrrrr!
Cheers for the feedback! Best of luck for your project!
tknz said:
I just had a look at those relays, sounds like its something I really need! Is this how the standard backup cameras work? That was something I was confused about.. I wasn't sure how to detect if i'm on reverse.. especially with the parts I already had. I'd imagine once you implement it you just need a service running in the background to listen for the relay.
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I think most factory backup cameras use two inputs and switch between them. I don't have a lot of experience with them though.
chjade84 said:
I think most factory backup cameras use two inputs and switch between them. I don't have a lot of experience with them though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure what you mean exactly. I'll try the relays because it at-least gives me a standard interface to work with (bluetooth or wifi) so there isn't any work you have to deal with on the hardware abstraction.. Although it would probably be better designed if I had some sort of voltage input coming when the vehicle on reverse (the reverse light as mentioned). But I don't really have the electrical expertise to make it happen lol.
tknz said:
Not sure what you mean exactly. I'll try the relays because it at-least gives me a standard interface to work with (bluetooth or wifi) so there isn't any work you have to deal with on the hardware abstraction.. Although it would probably be better designed if I had some sort of voltage input coming when the vehicle on reverse (the reverse light as mentioned). But I don't really have the electrical expertise to make it happen lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well essentially what I was thinking was you'd have the bluetooth relay hooked up to your reverse light wire. This should allow your computer to monitor whether or not your car was in reverse. Relays are pretty simple - one input switches on/off another, usually one of a much higher or lower voltage. So in essence, it's a switch activated by voltage. (There used to be an electromagnet inside that physically moves a piece of metal to make a connection when a voltage is applied - now it's all transistors and whatnot.)
So, if you are in reverse and your reverse lights are getting power, the bluetooth relay should sense that and signal the computer (through a serial command it seems) which in turn could tell a background service to open the camera app. Once the voltage from the reverse light wire is lost, the relay should again tell the computer that you aren't in reverse anymore and the background service would close the camera app and re-open whatever app you were in.
*I should note this is all "in theory"... I don't know exactly how those wireless relays work/communicate and I don't know Android programming at all.
Thanks for the feedback. I was thinking what about using the GPIOs on the board and attach that to the reverse light? would that be possible? and using some resistors on the way to limit the voltages so i don't fry the board.. but we just need to detect some voltage input...
Not sure, will look into it. Right now, taking a pause on the development.. Got a lot of work to take care of but I can't wait to get back into it. I really want to port this to gingerbread.
tknz said:
Thanks for the feedback. I was thinking what about using the GPIOs on the board and attach that to the reverse light? would that be possible? and using some resistors on the way to limit the voltages so i don't fry the board.. but we just need to detect some voltage input...
Not sure, will look into it. Right now, taking a pause on the development.. Got a lot of work to take care of but I can't wait to get back into it. I really want to port this to gingerbread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You could possibly do that, a real cheap voltage regulator would probably be better though. You could also use a cheap relay if the correct voltage is already somewhere on the car. Again, I'm not too sure how those bluetooth relays work, but it sounds like you are on the right track.
Great Job!
I was thinking of doing something similar myself.
I am looking at going with one of the tablets as it is just seems easier? I only really need internet, google maps(GPS) and wifi tethering. I would imagine you are running stereo sound from a 3.5mm? I would still have a seperate head unit to control volume and handle all the regular functions as well as inputs from a 3.5 to RCA cable.
How are you running sound off that setup? Are you running a head unit still?
The sound is running off a small amplifier. then RCA to 3.5mm.
Haven't had the chance to play around with the wifi tether as right now i don't have a wifi card.. It would make sense to have wifi tethering or just wifi reciever and use a phone to tether 3g to the system. Avoids having separate data plans.
Can we get a copy of your "AIVI Car Home" for our own DIY projects?
I don't mind releasing the source for it. Its just right now its a bit messy and quite a few things are hardcoded.
tknz said:
So I've had a project for the last few months getting Android running as an infotainment system. Here is a demo i thought i'd share with you guys..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice project. I gutted a Clarion Mind last year to do pretty much the same thing but am looking to upgrade. You said the software needs work but it's a real good start. Would you mind sharing your hardware list with us?
Nice work!
Something I was also interested in seeing is having vehicle manufacturer recommended service intervals and such available as reminders from your in car system or phone or both.
Stu_Gotti said:
Something I was also interested in seeing is having vehicle manufacturer recommended service intervals and such available as reminders from your in car system or phone or both.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You could use 'aCar' which, if you are unfamiliar, you enter the make, model, mileage and all the pertinent service requirements. Battery every 3 years or 50,000 miles, coolant every year or 15,000 miles, oil every 6 months or 3,000 miles, etc. Then, every time you get gas you enter the current mileage as well as gallons/liters of fuel and the price. From that information you not only get your MPG but it will also trigger reminders to do the necessary maintenance at the correct intervals when they come up. You can do this for multiple cars as well. It's a very good program.
On a related note to this thread, I started my own 'carputer' project using an Archos 70 Internet Tablet and an unused articulating wall mount for TVs. It's still a work in progress as well since I don't have all the parts yet but will do everything I wanted (eventually... lol) except the rear facing camera. The video is obviously just of the media player.
I shot this late last night to show a friend. He wanted to know why someone would want a tablet/computer in their car, lol. Sorry about it being so dark.
Dude
I am keen as mustard on one of these beauties, I was considering running xp MCE but the android option would be much nicer..
Love ya work.
tknz said:
I don't mind releasing the source for it. Its just right now its a bit messy and quite a few things are hardcoded.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please do. Would love to play with it. No matter how clean the code is it's just gonna get better...
thanks for showing it..
UPDATE 5/26/2011: I have put together a tutorial and will keep it updated. It can be found at this link. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=14111386&postcount=207 The project is not fully completed but working! Keep following us as we progress through this thread.
Ok, I’ve been digging around recently and have been getting nowhere. From a bunch of emails and PM’s that took me a long time to write, I have gotten nothing back. So I am starting a new thread here.
I am in the process of finding info on the internal GPS module that the G-Pad is capable of having installed. I am willing to use my tablet as a demo to see if I can get it working! If it works, I will make a detailed thread on how to go about installing a GPS module into the G-Tablet. So speak up if you know your electronics please!!!
What I have compiled so far
A member from XDA forums literally bought a kit (eBay Post) that enabled GPS use. He posted that the chip that he installed was a RXM-GPS-SG-B found at this link (http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?lang=en&site=US&KeyWords=RXM-GPS-SG-B&x=0&y=0). After looking at the data sheet for this chip I’m pretty sure that this chip will work on the G-tablet board. All of the pins line up properly and everything. In the XDA post that I read, after the install of the chip he posted “I now have power to the chip and its working. When I click on the place app now it no longer just says wait but comes up with aps where to go.” This is a good sign in that it is already enabled in the VS bootloader kernel. Basically if you can get it soldered in and enabled it should work. The problem is that he claimed that pin 12 (vcc) did not have power and he had to power it from another source. He claimed that he tapped into the USB +5v power. That would have worked ok if the GPS chip needed 5v power. The chip itself needs 3.3v of power. This user was overvolting his GPS chip from the get-go. He had reported some issues with it and I think that this overvolting was part of the problem.
Here is a picture of the installed chip via the XDA forums. Sorry for the smallness it was as big as I could find. http://forum.xda-developers.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=585865&stc=1&d=1304460793
My theory is that you can tap into the 3.3v pin that is located on the mini PCI e headers and use this for power. This will provide the correct voltage. Here is a picture of the empty spots on the board. http://forum.xda-developers.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=585866&d=1304460792
As you can see in the picture above there is an “empty” power circuit located below where the GPS chip would reside. I read a post on XDA that claimed that if properly hooked up correctly it would probably produce the 3.3v output needed for the GPS chip also. The items that the user claimed could possible make it work were as follows.
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=NCP51460SN33T1GOSCT-ND Part# NCP51460SN33T1G
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=NCP551SN33T1GOSCT-ND Part# NCP551SN33T1G
I do not have enough knowledge about IC’s to know how these are used. If anyone has an idea let me know. They go in the power circuit somehow.
The next part is the antenna connector. This would get installed in the empty “ANT2” connector. This should be an easy mount and is exactly how “ANT1” the wifi antenna is connected. http://forum.xda-developers.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=585863&d=1304460740
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=H9161CT-ND Part# U.FL-R-SMT(10)
Finally onto the antenna itself. Although I have read that a passive antenna can be hooked up to this chip, an active antenna seems like it would get much better reception. The antenna that I have read a lot about is the following.
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/D...&lang=en&site=us&keywords=931-1014-ND&x=0&y=0 Part# ALA.01.07.0095A
This antenna would literally just snap onto the antenna 2 connector and it should work. Now to run an active antenna the GPS data sheet says that a 300ohm ferrite bead needs to be installed. This is the part where the member at XDA also messed up. He wired an antenna with a 300ohm resistor thinking it worked the same as a ferrite bead. A ferrite bead basically reduces any interference coming from the antenna going to the chip. Here is a link to the proper ferrite bead.
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=445-6406-1-ND Part# MMZ1608D220C
The ferrite bead is also where I have run into problems. I do not know how to properly install one of these and I have no idea if there is even a spot on the board to do so. Any help in this area would also be appreciated. http://forum.xda-developers.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=585873&stc=1&d=1304461146
The antenna should be able to fit in the plastic up at the top of the case while also providing ample reception.
After all of this is installed hopefully the GPS chip will work. Although this sounds like a complicated project there is not actually that much soldering to do. The main GPS chip is actually most of the soldering. I am hoping that someone reads and appreciates that work that I have compiled/done so far. Any help on this project would be greatly appreciated. Also please do not post “why don’t you just use an external Bluetooth module.” I get that these work great, but I just want to see if the internal GPS will function. Attached below is everything I could possibly obtain after browsing through the entire internet looking for any type of documentation on this project Thanks for taking time to read through this post.
Last Thoughts
Here is a more in depth picture that shows the GPS connection and GPS schematic from the datasheet. It is very helpful. http://forum.xda-developers.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=585868&d=1304460792
I posted datasheets as attachments for the GPS Module and the Antenna I hope this helps out. http://forum.xda-developers.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=585875&stc=1&d=1304461367
Here is the entire system board for those who need a complete picture. http://forum.xda-developers.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=585867&d=1304460792
References
Thanks to the following people from XDA
mystkrh
6.055chevy
vsc
also to anyone I missed sorry
I will not be much help here, but I applaud your efforts.
I hope someone fills in the rest of the picture... I would love to do this to my G-Tab.
Great post Fosser2!
I too would like to have an internal GPS solution. I have a little electronics experience and I'm willing to go down this road as well.
For the ferrite bead, it looks like it gets soldered in at the L1 pad on the board.
All the other parts you listed look like they'll fit. The 3.3v chips you listed are just regulators. They "regulate" how much voltage goes through them. You feed them 5v (or whatever) and they spit out 3.3v.
What I'm wondering next is what about all the capacitors that are missing (all the C### labels on the board). Those regulators need some and the GPS chip itself looks like it needs some as well. I'll download the data-sheets and dig through those.
Hopefully others will chime in as well.
-John
twistedrotors said:
Great post Fosser2!
I too would like to have an internal GPS solution. I have a little electronics experience and I'm willing to go down this road as well.
For the ferrite bead, it looks like it gets soldered in at the L1 pad on the board.
All the other parts you listed look like they'll fit. The 3.3v chips you listed are just regulators. They "regulate" how much voltage goes through them. You feed them 5v (or whatever) and they spit out 3.3v.
What I'm wondering next is what about all the capacitors that are missing (all the C### labels on the board). Those regulators need some and the GPS chip itself looks like it needs some as well. I'll download the data-sheets and dig through those.
Hopefully others will chime in as well.
-John
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well honestly I'm not sure about all the C#### labels. I think when I order the parts (Thursday) I will only be ordering the GPS, Antenna, the ferrite bead and the antenna connector. I will be using that 3.3v from the mini PCI e header and pray it works. (hopefully bypassing the need for "regulators.") I'm just hoping that it will be detected software side. I guess time will tell But for all others keep posting on this topic because your expertise is greatly helpful.
Another alternative is looking into the Ericson 3307G which the Zpad, uses for GPS. (Gps version)
The 3307G has GPS and 3G, though it is a mPCIE card, so u need to put one of those on the board.
It may be easier though as you can modify the zpad roms for the gtab.
roguey said:
Another alternative is looking into the Ericson 3307G which the Zpad, uses for GPS. (Gps version)
The 3307G has GPS and 3G, though it is a mPCIE card, so u need to put one of those on the board.
It may be easier though as you can modify the zpad roms for the gtab.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For right now, I'm going to roll with the actual gps chip. I did put some though into installing the mPCIE slot but I'm hoping that the GPS is more just dropping in and hoping it works. The mPCIE slot seems like it would be tough to get working software side, but thats just my 2cents.
well apparently pershoot's kernel supports it (3g version anyway), its just the rom that needs the modifying.
Remember the Zpad and Gtab are basiclly the same thing, main thing missing from the Gtab is the pcie and Antenna.
Looks like a great project. I'll be following your progress.
I wanted to mention that the ferrite bead in your link is 22 olms not 300 you list in your post.
dhanifin said:
Looks like a great project. I'll be following your progress.
I wanted to mention that the ferrite bead in your link is 22 olms not 300 you list in your post.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good call on that one. Here is what the data sheet specifically says about the ferrite bead.
Code:
"A 300 ohm ferrite bead should be used to connect this line to the
RFIN line. This bead will prevent the RF from getting into the power supply, but
will allow the DC voltage onto the RF trace to feed into the antenna. A series
capacitor inside the module prevents this DC voltage from affecting the bias on
the module’s internal LNA.
Maintaining a 50 ohm path between the module and antenna is critical. Errors in
layout can significantly impact the module’s performance. Please review the
layout guidelines elsewhere in this guide carefully to become more familiar with
these considerations."
If you can do me a favor and try to find the proper ferrite bead to meet these specifications that would be great. I'll keep looking on my end.
The other reason that I had this ferrite bead was the user "vsc" recommended it in this post. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=12242377&postcount=54
Here is what he said:
Code:
2) The GPS receiver datasheet says for the ferrite bead, 300 ohms at 100 MHz. But every bead that meets that specification that I found also doesn't have good isolation at ~1.5 GHz (GPS band). As such I picked a different bead based upon my "good" judgement which will provide isolation between the antenna and LNA supply.
It looks like you are serious about this - but - are you PCB hardware and software engineer? After all the hardware prototype, you have to make the BIOS recognize and get the driver for this motherboard..etc...ouches - lots of work...
Unless you are into this to make the business on it - I would say "waste of time" (sorry - if offended to you). And I assum this could be your hobby to play around with electronic, pcb..etc...but if you are very good at EE/EEE and assembly language, Java - you are welcome to try on this
good luck!
fosser2 said:
The ferrite bead is also where I have run into problems. I do not know how to properly install one of these and I have no idea if there is even a spot on the board to do so. Any help in this area would also be appreciated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The ferrite bead would be soldered onto the PCB at L11 (upper left on the first picture). It goes between pin 17 of the chip and the antenna connector.
rcjpth said:
It looks like you are serious about this - but - are you PCB hardware and software engineer? After all the hardware prototype, you have to make the BIOS recognize and get the driver for this motherboard..etc...ouches - lots of work...
Unless you are into this to make the business on it - I would say "waste of time" (sorry - if offended to you). And I assum this could be your hobby to play around with electronic, pcb..etc...but if you are very good at EE/EEE and assembly language, Java - you are welcome to try on this
good luck!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Currently I'm like 85% sure that the GPS support is built directly into the software. I have been directly talking to roebeet. He said that in his newest firmware "brilliant corners" that he deleted a script that checked to see if there was a gps chip installed and then enabled/disabled it accordingly.
Code:
With my Brilliant Corners update, I actually noticed a script that gets run and changes the library file, depending on the GPS installed.
So well I am still unsure about a number of things, I'm going to press my luck and continue with the project I will be ordering the parts tomm.
Here is a 300 Ohm ferrite bead that should work. It's the same package size as the original 22 Ohm one that was posted.
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=445-2171-1-ND
-John
twistedrotors said:
Here is a 300 Ohm ferrite bead that should work. It's the same package size as the original 22 Ohm one that was posted.
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=445-2171-1-ND
-John
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice job on that find. I'll most likely be using this one in the build.
fosser2 said:
Ok, I’ve been digging around recently and have been getting nowhere. From a bunch of emails and PM’s that took me a long time to write, I have gotten nothing back. So I am starting a new thread here.
I am in the process of finding info on the internal GPS module that the G-Pad is capable of having installed. I am willing to use my tablet as a demo to see if I can get it working! If it works, I will make a detailed thread on how to go about installing a GPS module into the G-Tablet. So speak up if you know your electronics please!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looking at the pictures, you reference U39. This looks like a BGA IC which is going to be a real PIA to solder, if possible at all. Normally, BGAs are placed on the solder paste with +/- 1mil tolerance using a pick and place machine, then baked with all of the other SMT parts with the board. And even then you get fallout from the BGA shifting during reflow and needs to be x-rayed for voids and shorts. i can only cringe at the prospect of doing this by hand, but i've seen it done before.
In our case, the board is already populated and the only way to solder on the BGA would be find a heat source with a isolated stream (read no generic heat guns) and a crap load of kapton tape to insulate and hold the other SMT parts around U39 down.
Furthermore, the GPS module IC also comes in a QFN package which is also a PIA to solder. Granted, its not a BGA and has no pins directly under the IC but it will take a skilled technician with a industrial grade soldering iron with temperature control.
I'm in no way trying to shoot this idea down. It certainly is do-able but it is a true project with no guaranteed outcome (parts soldered down correctly = GPS will work). I certainly would entertain trying this out and this gives me the perfect excuse to pry open my 2 wk old gtab. i have all of the necessary tools available at my company to do this properly and if its a matter of simply soldering down these parts to see what happens, i can do this.
let me do a little more research on the GPS module. hopefully, the viewsonic design engineers used a reference design straight from linx so we can figure out at least the GPS module schematics so we can understand what needs to be soldered where etc (and find out what U39 is - it says its a uP for micro processor but in our case it might be a serial NMEA converter).
stay tuned. from a practical risk vs reward scenario this isn't worth the time/effort. thankfully, i enjoy doing stuff like this and its the process that i enjoy, the outcome is simply icing on the cake.
sorry for the long post.
dzasta said:
Looking at the pictures, you reference U39. This looks like a BGA IC which is going to be a real PIA to solder, if possible at all. Normally, BGAs are placed on the solder paste with +/- 1mil tolerance using a pick and place machine, then baked with all of the other SMT parts with the board. And even then you get fallout from the BGA shifting during reflow and needs to be x-rayed for voids and shorts. i can only cringe at the prospect of doing this by hand, but i've seen it done before.
In our case, the board is already populated and the only way to solder on the BGA would be find a heat source with a isolated stream (read no generic heat guns) and a crap load of kapton tape to insulate and hold the other SMT parts around U39 down.
Furthermore, the GPS module IC also comes in a QFN package which is also a PIA to solder. Granted, its not a BGA and has no pins directly under the IC but it will take a skilled technician with a industrial grade soldering iron with temperature control.
I'm in no way trying to shoot this idea down. It certainly is do-able but it is a true project with no guaranteed outcome (parts soldered down correctly = GPS will work). I certainly would entertain trying this out and this gives me the perfect excuse to pry open my 2 wk old gtab. i have all of the necessary tools available at my company to do this properly and if its a matter of simply soldering down these parts to see what happens, i can do this.
let me do a little more research on the GPS module. hopefully, the viewsonic design engineers used a reference design straight from linx so we can figure out at least the GPS module schematics so we can understand what needs to be soldered where etc (and find out what U39 is - it says its a uP for micro processor but in our case it might be a serial NMEA converter).
stay tuned. from a practical risk vs reward scenario this isn't worth the time/effort. thankfully, i enjoy doing stuff like this and its the process that i enjoy, the outcome is simply icing on the cake.
sorry for the long post.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dang, I guess I didn't think much about what the U39 part was. I sure hope that its not the NEMA serial converter. That would blow the whole project. Let me know if you find any schematics for this part. Either way, the project is still happening Let me know what else you find. Your help is appreciated.
fosser2 said:
Dang, I guess I didn't think much about what the U39 part was. I sure hope that its not the NEMA serial converter. That would blow the whole project. Either way, its still happening Let me know what else you find. Your help is appreciated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure why U39 was referenced. Were the GPS serial port pins, TXA (pin 4) and RXA (pin 5), traced to that location? Or was the original author of that diagram guessing about U39?
The GPS module spits out NMEA sentences on TXA in a "serial" format. IMO, I don't know why there would be a need for any sort of hardware converter.
I am concerned about the software side though. By default the GPS module outputs NMEA commands at 9,600bps, 8 data bits, no parity, and 1 stop bit. If the micro isn't setup to accept the messages at that rate then we will have an issue. There is a command to change the serial port settings but I guess we can cross that bridge if we come to it.
-John
Edit: Here's a link to the GPS modules datasheet directly from the Linx website. http://www.linxtechnologies.com/resources/data-guides/rxm-gps-sg.pdf The link provided on Digikeys site doesn't seem to work.
Warranty voided!
So I cracked open my Gtab because I wanted to see if there was power on the voltage regulator pads of the GPS power section. And there is! U29 has 4.94vdc on it's input pin and U22 has 3.29vdc. What's interesting is that these voltages are present even when the tablet is powered off.
U22 is the power supply that is tied to the GPS's backup battery supply pin. For U22 to always have power makes sense, it's providing the power that the GPS needs in order to keep it's memory and RTC going. This allows for faster Time to First Fix, according to the datasheet.
But U29 provides the main VCC supply voltage to the module on pin 12. If it's always on, then the module will always be powered up. I wonder what that will do to battery life. The module is designed to operate automatically in different power saving modes so the difference in battery life may be negligible.
-John
Edit: Next, I want to figure out what capacitors are needed for the regulators.
twistedrotors said:
Warranty voided!
So I cracked open my Gtab because I wanted to see if there was power on the voltage regulator pads of the GPS power section. And there is! U29 has 4.94vdc on it's input pin and U22 has 3.29vdc. What's interesting is that these voltages are present even when the tablet is powered off.
U22 is the power supply that is tied to the GPS's backup battery supply pin. For U22 to always have power makes sense, it's providing the power that the GPS needs in order to keep it's memory and RTC going. This allows for faster Time to First Fix, according to the datasheet.
But U29 provides the main VCC supply voltage to the module on pin 12. If it's always on, then the module will always be powered up. I wonder what that will do to battery life. The module is designed to operate automatically in different power saving modes so the difference in battery life may be negligible.
-John
Edit: Next, I want to figure out what capacitors are needed for the regulators.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Holy crap! this is some serious progress. I was not expecting this right now I'm really happy that there is power right beneath the gps but the thing that I am concerned about I guess is, is it worthwhile to try to rebuild the power supply circuit, or just run 3.3v from the mini PCI e. I guess I'm down for rebuilding the circuit because its the way it was initially intended to work.
fosser2 said:
Currently I'm like 85% sure that the GPS support is built directly into the software. I have been directly talking to roebeet. He said that in his newest firmware "brilliant corners" that he deleted a script that checked to see if there was a gps chip installed and then enabled/disabled it accordingly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
According to the TnT v1.1 kernel patch file from Viewsonic, enabling and disabling the GPS module (the comment in the driver mentions it is for a "MALATA_SMBA1102") is all that the kernel driver does. No code to anything beyond that. Are there any data lines connected from the GPS and where do they go on the gTablet board. Is it connected to an internal SDIO bus?--You can get GPS data that way.
Bought this battery from a reseller around here and I wanted to know whether i just gave up nfc for an increase in battery life? Also please explain why does nfc require a special battery? Why can't it just be a microchip emitting signal integrated in the phone?
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/270899338893?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
I would assume so, but if you did, that seems like a pretty good trade. NFC is a dumb gimmick anyway, and I don't really trust the tech with my credit card/banking info given that mere proximity is enough to read it. I would never use NFC.
Frogacuda said:
I would assume so, but if you did, that seems like a pretty good trade. NFC is a dumb gimmick anyway, and I don't really trust the tech with my credit card/banking info given that mere proximity is enough to read it. I would never use NFC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very short sighted it is as much as gimmick as Interac is.
I can not remember the last time I used cash, and why bother when all I need in my bank card and PIN.
Me I live in the 21th Century and I rather take advantage of it than wear my tin foil hat..... worry about everybody out to rip me off.
Who said anything about cash? My cards work fine.
But people can put an NFC reader in a bag and bump into your pocket on the subway. It's really not a particularly secure bit of tech, and it's also not a significantly more convenient thing than swiping a credit card.
Who cares what you think or dont think about NFC, please stick to the subject. Why do we need a special battery for NFC? Is it because the chip is in the battery?
Yes, basically it's a small, flat chip embedded under the sticker label on the skyrocket's battery. I think it works kind of like those security tags they put on books and DVDs.
Someone more knowledgeable than I might be able to tell you if it'd be possible to move that to the new battery.
Soon as NFC catches fire..IF it does.. Then you will be able to purchase mirochip stickies that you can cement on anything you can imagine.
From what I have read on many online searches the battery does not have the NFC circuitry. The battery only houses the NFC short distance antenna, which accounts for the 4th contact on the battery.
gdmuscle said:
From what I have read on many online searches the battery does not have the NFC circuitry. The battery only houses the NFC short distance antenna, which accounts for the 4th contact on the battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Surely the Chinese battery manufacturers will catch on and we will see cheapo batteries with NFC antennae soon enough. But I agree with others here, NFC sounds like a gimmick and a security risk to me at this point. How strong is the crypto on this technology? It better be pretty damned secure or I will deliberately purchase one of these NON-NFC batteries for my next phone, lol.
gdmuscle said:
From what I have read on many online searches the battery does not have the NFC circuitry. The battery only houses the NFC short distance antenna, which accounts for the 4th contact on the battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That information is incorrect. Read around people here on the forums have NFC working. **Edit, I misunderstood you. Yes the battery houses the antenna, and the phone has the other parts of the circuity, but without the antenna NFC is useless.
And for those of you who think its a gimmick take a look at what one user here is doing with it:
cdshepherd said:
A quick example. I have a nfc tag sitting on my nightstand. At night when I go to bed I set my phone on the tag. It automatically turns my wifi off, turns my alarm on, and turns the night mode clock on. Its really neat stuff. Paying with NFC (which we can't do yet) is only scratching the surface when it comes to this technology. If your interested more Google search it. There is tons of stuff.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
polish_pat said:
Bought this battery from a reseller around here and I wanted to know whether i just gave up nfc for an increase in battery life? Also please explain why does nfc require a special battery? Why can't it just be a microchip emitting signal integrated in the phone?
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/270899338893?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The reason why it isn't in the phone is because NFC has an operating range of 4 cm, your phone is already almost 1 cm thick, some people put those horrible otterbox cases on which another 1 cm thick, throw in interference and having that antenna inside the phone rather than the edge of the phone makes it almost useless. This is why the antenna is on the battery, will they move it to inside phone? Probably, but they would have to increase the throughput of the signal which would increase range but that would decrease security.
Frogacuda said:
Who said anything about cash? My cards work fine.
But people can put an NFC reader in a bag and bump into your pocket on the subway. It's really not a particularly secure bit of tech, and it's also not a significantly more convenient thing than swiping a credit card.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That wouldnt really work. Google Wallet has a PIN, so even if someone had some kind of NFC device in their bag, they wouldnt be able to extract money because you'd have to manually enter your PIN before the transfer would go through.
On top of that, you need to be really close for NFC to work. Like the phone has to be basically touching the reader. IIRC, for mobile phones, 4 centimeters is the distance the phone can be from the reader. On top of that, the phone has to be unlocked for NFC to work. So unless you walk around with your phone screen awake at all times, it's a total non-issue.
A normal wallet full of cash and cards is much more insecure that Google Wallet and NFC.
NFC is great though. I use it at 7/11, rite-aid, cvs, and mcdonalds all the time.
Frogacuda said:
Who said anything about cash? My cards work fine.
But people can put an NFC reader in a bag and bump into your pocket on the subway. It's really not a particularly secure bit of tech, and it's also not a significantly more convenient thing than swiping a credit card.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Virtually all modern credit and debit cards issued by the major banks have some kind of contactless chip embedded in them.
AMEX has ExpressPay, Master Card has PayPass, Discover has Zip, Visa has PayWave. Different banks have it under their own branding, too. Chase, for example, puts them all under their "Blink" term.
The chip itself is like 5mm x 5mm, thinner than the credit card itself, and only really produces a slight variation in the surface of the credit card. You'll only really see it if you're explicitly looking for it.
polish_pat said:
Bought this battery from a reseller around here and I wanted to know whether i just gave up nfc for an increase in battery life? Also please explain why does nfc require a special battery? Why can't it just be a microchip emitting signal integrated in the phone?
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/270899338893?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just ordered mine. I never like to buy from china but for 17 dollars even if i got scammed i thought it was worth the chance. Have you noticed an increase in battery life?
i got an extra 1.5-2 hours
ok kool im glad too here
polish_pat said:
Bought this battery from a reseller around here and I wanted to know whether i just gave up nfc for an increase in battery life? Also please explain why does nfc require a special battery? Why can't it just be a microchip emitting signal integrated in the phone?
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/270899338893?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That looks like a good battery that will fit under the current cover. I too want an extended battery like this but I don't want to lose NFC...
eagercrow said:
That information is incorrect. Read around people here on the forums have NFC working. **Edit, I misunderstood you. Yes the battery houses the antenna, and the phone has the other parts of the circuity, but without the antenna NFC is useless.
And for those of you who think its a gimmick take a look at what one user here is doing with it:
cdshepherd said:
A quick example. I have a nfc tag sitting on my nightstand. At night when I go to bed I set my phone on the tag. It automatically turns my wifi off, turns my alarm on, and turns the night mode clock on. Its really neat stuff. Paying with NFC (which we can't do yet) is only scratching the surface when it comes to this technology. If your interested more Google search it. There is tons of stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just ordered 5 NFC tags. I'm going to place 1 on my nightstand, 1 in the car and 1 at work. Each one will be programmed to to different things. For example the nightstand tag will turn off wifi, put phone on silent. The car tag will turn up all the sounds, increase brightness to full, turn on bluetooth and GPS and launch the music player. The one at work will turn off all sounds, turn brightness down to minimum and turn off bluetooth and GPS.
Once mobile payments come to my area I will use it NFC for that as well.
i guess when you get the new battery and NFC is grayed out in the settings menu you will have your definitive answer. i'd like to know fo sho.
I just got this battery and nfc is not greyed out in the settings. But I have no way to test it otherwise.
marvin02 said:
I just got this battery and nfc is not greyed out in the settings. But I have no way to test it otherwise.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Stock UCLD2 has NFC test that can be accessed via *#6328378#
Custom rom's might have removed NfcTest.apk as bloat, so it might not work on all.
I have noticed a trend of newer phones foregoing the option of the user changing the battery or having a microSD slot. Is there still a need/want for these to be on phones? My thought is that this is what android is all about, giving the user options on their phone. MicroSD used to be the main reason that people went from iPhone to Android. I don't know about you but I don't like this trend with manufacturers. I hope they listen to the ones left that still want this. What do you think? Are these features still relevant? Do you only buy phones with these features and wish they wouldn't do away with it?
mikeboucher21 said:
I have noticed a trend of newer phones foregoing the option of the user changing the battery or having a microSD slot. Is there still a need/want for these to be on phones? My thought is that this is what android is all about, giving the user options on their phone. MicroSD used to be the main reason that people went from iPhone to Android. I don't know about you but I don't like this trend with manufacturers. I hope they listen to the ones left that still want this. What do you think? Are these features still relevant? Do you only buy phones with these features and wish they wouldn't do away with it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is two questions.
Batteries are quickly getting to the point where they don't need changing. Sure, there are the extreme users who carry spares, but the vast majority of people will never remove or replace their battery ever. By simply foregoing a removable battery entirely, you can make phones slimmer, and ironically, pack more capacity in the same space - since you aren't having to waste space on the plastic casing, pins, etc. (or not, as in the case of the HTC One) However, as a "normal" user, I have a pile of old phones that still worked fine when they retired - with their original batteries.
Now, as to the SD card question. That is a bit more interesting. A bit part of it, IMO, is the fact that Google is really pushing their cloud services - for music, videos, backups, etc. They give you about 15GB (or just a bit shy of a mid-sized SD card) out of the chute, but even if you don't upgrade, they would prefer you to use that instead of a SD card. Why? Because using cloud storage means that you are connected to Google servers, and having your usage monitored by Google services.
Even if they don't show you ads via this route, Google isn't just an advertising company, they are also a data aggregation company (in support of advertising). They want people to be tied as intimately to their services as possible for both reasons, because it allows them to charge advertisers more. I really believe this is why Nexus devices don't have SD cards at all, and I won't be surprised if Google pushes OEMs to stop supplying them at some point, as an external SD card lets you bypass all of that.
Note, Apple is likewise pushing cloud services, and Microsoft has started in as well. All of these companies want your phone to be a network terminal, not a computer. Network terminals are completely dependent on the network, and more likely to keep you in their ecosystem.
agree with the second floor
jshamlet said:
That is two questions.
Batteries are quickly getting to the point where they don't need changing. Sure, there are the extreme users who carry spares, but the vast majority of people will never remove or replace their battery ever. By simply foregoing a removable battery entirely, you can make phones slimmer, and ironically, pack more capacity in the same space - since you aren't having to waste space on the plastic casing, pins, etc. (or not, as in the case of the HTC One) However, as a "normal" user, I have a pile of old phones that still worked fine when they retired - with their original batteries.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Batteries still wear out though. After ~500 cycles, a lithium based battery (Li-ion, Li-Po) loses upwards of 20% its original capacity. If you're a heavy user, 500 cycles can happen within a year, definitely within 2 years. And yes, spares are always good. You never know what might happen.
Now, as to the SD card question. That is a bit more interesting. A bit part of it, IMO, is the fact that Google is really pushing their cloud services - for music, videos, backups, etc. They give you about 15GB (or just a bit shy of a mid-sized SD card) out of the chute, but even if you don't upgrade, they would prefer you to use that instead of a SD card. Why? Because using cloud storage means that you are connected to Google servers, and having your usage monitored by Google services.
Even if they don't show you ads via this route, Google isn't just an advertising company, they are also a data aggregation company (in support of advertising). They want people to be tied as intimately to their services as possible for both reasons, because it allows them to charge advertisers more. I really believe this is why Nexus devices don't have SD cards at all, and I won't be surprised if Google pushes OEMs to stop supplying them at some point, as an external SD card lets you bypass all of that.
Note, Apple is likewise pushing cloud services, and Microsoft has started in as well. All of these companies want your phone to be a network terminal, not a computer. Network terminals are completely dependent on the network, and more likely to keep you in their ecosystem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not that at all. It's security. If you have a proper lock on your phone (PIN/password/pattern), nobody can access what's on your phone. No data, no personal information, no nude selfies, etc. But if you store "sensitive" stuff on your microSD card, anybody can get that. That's why with 4.4 KitKat, moving things to external SD became so much more difficult, or even impossible without root.
Planterz said:
Batteries still wear out though. After ~500 cycles, a lithium based battery (Li-ion, Li-Po) loses upwards of 20% its original capacity. If you're a heavy user, 500 cycles can happen within a year, definitely within 2 years. And yes, spares are always good. You never know what might happen.
Yes, and I wasn't thrilled that the M8 requires massive disassembly to get to the battery. I never said I *liked* it, just that it hasn't been as big a deal lately.
It's not that at all. It's security. If you have a proper lock on your phone (PIN/password/pattern), nobody can access what's on your phone. No data, no personal information, no nude selfies, etc. But if you store "sensitive" stuff on your microSD card, anybody can get that. That's why with 4.4 KitKat, moving things to external SD became so much more difficult, or even impossible without root.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
KitKat's external SD security isn't totally absurd. Apps can only read/write data in folders they create, so it means you need root to use a file system explorer. I'm still not sure how they worked out special cases, like both the camera and gallery being able to access the same folder on an external SD card, so there are exceptions. Depending on how that exception works, it's possible that this hole still exists, but that's pure speculation.
However, the issue of removable storage has been around forever, and while it is a valid concern, I kind of doubt that was the driving force. The new restrictions really didn't start to come out until after Google started pushing Drive as a serious storage option for phones and tablets, so I still suspect it is more a case of nudging people onto the cloud than security. I could see "happy synergy" at best, but if it were really about security, I would expect Nexus devices to have about 2-3x the storage they presently offer to make up for it.
However, I'll admit that I'm suspicious of these drives to "put it on the cloud", and I wouldn't put it past Apple, Google, or any other company, to make "security decisions" that tend to nudge you towards those offerings. As such, I'll leave the possibility that user security really was a factor in pushing away from external SD storage.
i don't have a really brand phone and i liked the possibility to move apps to the SD card.
now i'm on 4.4.4 and i can't install too many apps 'cause i can't move them.
that's something that really bothers me as i can't afford a new phone.
in the sametime, even if you have a cloud based storge, you can't move apps overthere: that means that, with pictures resolution getting bigger (and so the file size), once you have a little bit of those + some mp3 + a video or 2, you will soon finish the default space.
(the thing is also that in Italy we don't get many Gb per day/month so most of the guys i know, don't use mp3 from the cloud but they prefer to keep the file with them)
Planterz said:
It's not that at all. It's security. If you have a proper lock on your phone (PIN/password/pattern), nobody can access what's on your phone. No data, no personal information, no nude selfies, etc. But if you store "sensitive" stuff on your microSD card, anybody can get that. That's why with 4.4 KitKat, moving things to external SD became so much more difficult, or even impossible without root.
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I am surprised, dismayed and disappointed to see this on an android developer forum. Perhaps you think the rest of us are mad - but the truth is that Apple, Microsoft and Google all have back doors into their operating systems. Apple and Microsoft are both America-based, and we all know what their privacy (non-privacy) is like. (or do we?) Google, since being bought from its original owner, has become part of the mega-corp flock. Google logs just about everything, and is also based in America. In fact, Google is the new Facebook of privacy violation. (Heard of a unique advertising ID?)
In fact, the governments of various countries employ hackers to come up with exploits of mobile phones. There are also zero-day exploits built in at government behest. This was shown in the leaked papers (I forget whether it was Snowden's lot or Assange's lot.)
If you have sensitive information, the only reliable way to store it securely is on a device which does not have any physical capability to connect to an external network wirelessly, and do not connect it to any external network physically.
This is why all big corp. and govt. research / secret systems are on a disconnected network. As in, they are physically connected within the building, but the building does not have external network communications.
Removable batteries are being taken off the market because they power the tracking capabilities of the device - even when you turn it off. If you didn't want your phone to track you, you used to be able to take out the battery. Now, if the battery is not removable, you have to leave your phone behind if you don't want to be tracked or potentially let others listen in on a sensitive conversation.