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petition for legal modding and warranty

You know what bugs me already for years is the following...
Mobile phones, which I paid a lot for, come with poor vendor roms, which are locked. They are mostly rich in bugs and therefore poor in bugfixes, support and updates.
xda-developers mod roms, cyanogenmod, android root and so on are such great projects...
The problem with those is, that
- warranty gets lost
- not available for all phones (there are for example no mod roms for Motorola Flipout, because the bootloader has been successfully protected my Motorola and no one could hack it yet)
- the developers have to waste time with working around the protections to mod the device
It is ridiculous, you paid the full price for the phone, but never get the right to fully use it's potential.
Let's compare it with buying a normal laptop. It's also a piece of hardware and mostly there is Windows preinstalled with a loads of bloated unwanted software. This might be ok for a lot of people. And the rest? They are free to install ANY operating system they wish.
On normal laptops there are not risks when messing around with new operating systems. Of course you need some knowledge and you may lose your data, if you do not know what you are doing. But since all my messing with operating systems for PC, I never damaged the hardware, simply it is designed in a way, not to be damaged by software, it's robust.
Mobile phone vendors claim, they lock us out, because we could potentially harm the hardware. Isn't it their task, just to develop robust hardware and allow us to install any software we want?
This petition would aim for:
- open bootloader by default
- root by default
- warranty for the hardware, no matter which software you used
- free to install custom roms
- robust hardware
I'd like to start a petition and perhaps some public awareness for this issue.
So, if you want to help with anything.... Like writing a petition, a more handy text then this, for example, would be needed.
Discuss.

Installing another O/S on your laptop is not likely to break it, if it does you fix it or take it to a computer shop. A computers warenty normally only covers the junk it came with. There is already a problem with self entitled gits who dont read properly, or make an effort to understand what they are doing who download a WP7 rom, try to put it on a sensation, and expect someone to come running with a new phone. I don't believe they should try to stop people from modifying their devices in any way they want to, but they shouldnt have to cover your fumbling around either. Any modification is rightly done at your own risk.

hungry81 said:
Installing another O/S on your laptop is not likely to break it, if it does you fix it or take it to a computer shop. A computers warenty normally only covers the junk it came with. There is already a problem with self entitled gits who dont read properly, or make an effort to understand what they are doing who download a WP7 rom, try to put it on a sensation, and expect someone to come running with a new phone. I don't believe they should try to stop people from modifying their devices in any way they want to, but they shouldnt have to cover your fumbling around either. Any modification is rightly done at your own risk.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with this.
One of the major issues with phone ROMs is that you do have the potential to completely brick your phone if you don't know what you're doing. Unrelated hardware failures (i.e. USB port loses power while flashing a new bootloader) may hard brick your phone to a state of complete uselessness.
Having super user access and root on a phone is another issue that the vast majority of end users do not want to have to deal with. UAC is enabled by default on Windows Vista and 7 because it provides robust protection for people who DO NOT know what they are doing. For day to day usage of a computer, users do not need an account with any special access privilege. Even if you do know what you're doing, its still SAFER to be on a non-admin account for day to day computer use.

hungry81 said:
Installing another O/S on your laptop is not likely to break it, if it does you fix it or take it to a computer shop. A computers warenty normally only covers the junk it came with.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are also computers which come without any software, just hardware. If anything goes wrong, like defect harddrive, then it will be replaced, because of warranty.
Mobile phones are very similar to computers nowadays. But there are no decent mobile phones without operating systems available. This is also what I vote vor.
hungry81 said:
I don't believe they should try to stop people from modifying their devices in any way they want to, but they shouldnt have to cover your fumbling around either. Any modification is rightly done at your own risk.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, messing with software -> no more software suppprt -> but hardware warranty still ok.
Kagadar said:
One of the major issues with phone ROMs is that you do have the potential to completely brick your phone if you don't know what you're doing. Unrelated hardware failures (i.e. USB port loses power while flashing a new bootloader) may hard brick your phone to a state of complete uselessness.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree that this problem does exist right now...
But only because the hardware is not robust.
As far I know, (a while ago I informed myself about a few devices) it is not possible to brick Nokia S60 v3 devices. This is because the routine to flash the device is read only and can not be changed. No matter if you lose power during flashing or usb cable loss... You can always flash again. There is NO way to brick the device while flashing.
Apart from the flash routine which is hardly built into the phone, the rest of the phones software can be updated.
That demonstrates that there are no technical limitations to deploy robust hardware.
Kagadar said:
Having super user access and root on a phone is another issue that the vast majority of end users do not want to have to deal with. UAC is enabled by default on Windows Vista and 7 because it provides robust protection for people who DO NOT know what they are doing. For day to day usage of a computer, users do not need an account with any special access privilege. Even if you do know what you're doing, its still SAFER to be on a non-admin account for day to day computer use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also agree that it is saves not to use admin account for everyday use and that it's also a good idea not to have it enabled by default.
On computers you still have the option to legally use your root account. At the other hand with mobile phones this is completely unwanted and you need some kind of hack to do it. This is the difference. And this is what I complain about.

Yeah
I think just like apps there are some absolutely amazing ROMs that run better than the vendor ROMs. I think they should allow those changes to occur whether through a "vendor verified" developer or some kind of authorized ROM download channel through the manufacturer so you can get the style and type you want the most which typically runs much smoother without voiding the warranty. Great idea!

Lmao. Hell no. Carriers and manufacturers will try to start sellings roms like theyre crack. Ringtones anybody? Cmon. Only $3.
Anyways. I think the op doesnt know what hes asking for. What you want is a blank phone and you want the manufacturer to cover hardware no matter what is done with phone. Fair enough. I guess you want them to cover the phone if you burn through all your write cycles in the flash memory used because you have to flash anything you can your digital hands on. You do realize this will cause the price of parts to go up in the long run? And prices upfront will be more because they will calculate losses due to all the warranty claims. Should i keep wondering why insurance prices keep going up? Phones are built much, much different from computers. Pc's are generally modular and a single piece if defective is claimed to oem of that part. Not necessarily hp or dell. Phones usually only have one or two boards in them with all your components. So if you somehow manage to fry your wifi because you thought could improve reception or your bandwidth or whatever with something custom and it doesnt work, that whole board, system or maybe even phone depending on how its built now needs to be replaced.
I dont want to say it, but itis fair for them to not cover your phone if you went above and beyond. True, because we have become digital crackheads we usually become beta testers for their hw/sw but we also have the power of the coin too. You cant fault them if you wanted to improve their bugs/sw. You cant go banging on your drug dealers door either when he sells you some bunk cocaine and you go mix it with drano, just hoping for something and it backfires on you.
I voided my warranty.

Some interesting opinions. If this was made legal there would likely be restrictions placed on what can be changed, and it would likely end up regulated in some way.
The result would be third-party 'illegal' roms and commercially available 'legal' ones.
People like us would likely still be flashing illegal roms with modified clock-speeds etc ; )

Advantages of International vs AT&T

Having taken my AT&T One X back, I have been considering the advantages of the International version and this is what I came up with:
More frequent updates
Free wireless tether out of the box
No bloatware or branding
Unlocked Bootloader
Twice the storage
Am I missing anything? Even though most of the bloatware can be disabled, there is still some that you can't, which eats into the RAM.
I have LTE in my area and it's fast, but my current phone doesn't have it and I can definitely live without it. Given that they are the same price off contract, I'm starting to think that the International version is a better bet.
I'm aware that performance and battery life are better on the S4, but other than benchmarks, I'm not sure the performance angle will mean much. Better battery life interests me, but timely updates from HTC may narrow that gap on the International version.

Positives
- While Adreno's no slouch, you could argue GeForce is better for gaming and you'd also have access to the Tergra Zone.
- Multitasking's been improved (too early to say it’s “good”) but it may be on the U.S. version too with updates.
- You get to select what app to open e-mail, pics, videos, web links, etc. with on the fly which has been removed in the U.S. version. Flashing custom ROMs would fix that though.
- You get back whatever stock HTC apps AT&T ordered removed. Someone who owns both phones could probably tell what they are and whether they're worth anything.
- The radio (for me) has been the best I've ever had on a phone. That includes celllular, Wi-FI, and BT. It picks up cell signals better than the i9100 did, moves between Wi-Fi and cellular cleanly, and BT auto connects to all my devices three times as fast and more reliably than the i9100. It's not fair to judge the U.S. version in its current state as it's obviously experiencing some bugs which will likely be worked out.
- You get a two vs. one year warranty.
- You get to use this which I think is pretty cool. I have a couple on order so it'll be kept charging when I'm not using it. It's supposedly "Bose-like" in its sound reproduction and charges the phone using the pogo pins. It connects via BT using Apt.X for lossless sound. They may make one for the U.S. version but for now the pogo pins are in the wrong place.
Negatives
- Battery life isn't as good as the U.S. version. You should get 12-14 hours but anything over that is pushing it. You'll also have a stroke until you rack up a few charge cycles because out-of-the-box it's pretty scary.
- Certain apps think you're in the UK. I have to use an old hacked version of Amazon MP3 to get cloud access.
- There's some debate about warranty support. The phone may have to be shipped to the UK if it needs repair. That's HTC's policy (Samsung's is the same) but some people have gotten repairs done in the U.S. It seems pretty random.
- HTC instituted a new warranty policy regarding third party ROMs with the One's. If you unlock the bootloader using HTCdev and they detect a third party ROM was used your h/w warranty is void. Since the bootloader's not unlocked on the U.S. version yet it's too soon to say if the same policy will be applied here.
- You have to buy SquareTrade for ADH since it's not available from AT&T. That also takes care of any issues with HTC not covering the warranty on ROM'd devices. It's transferable so you'll get more for the phone when you're ready to sell it.

BarryH_GEG said:
Positives
- While Adreno's no slouch, you could argue GeForce is better for gaming and you'd also have access to the Tergra Zone.
- Multitasking's been improved (too early to say it’s “good”) but it may be on the U.S. version too with updates.
- You get to select what app to open e-mail, pics, videos, web links, etc. with on the fly which has been removed in the U.S. version. Flashing custom ROMs would fix that though.
- You get back whatever stock HTC apps AT&T ordered removed. Someone who owns both phones could probably tell what they are and whether they're worth anything.
- The radio (for me) has been the best I've ever had on a phone. That includes celllular, Wi-FI, and BT. It picks up cell signals better than the i9100 did, moves between Wi-Fi and cellular cleanly, and BT auto connects to all my devices three times as fast and more reliably than the i9100. It's not fair to judge the U.S. version in its current state as it's obviously experiencing some bugs which will likely be worked out.
- You get a two vs. one year warranty.
- You get to use this which I think is pretty cool. I have a couple on order so it'll be kept charging when I'm not using it. It's supposedly "Bose-like" in its sound reproduction and charges the phone using the pogo pins. It connects via BT using Apt.X for lossless sound. They may make one for the U.S. version but for now the pogo pins are in the wrong place.
Negatives
- Battery life isn't as good as the U.S. version. You should get 12-14 hours but anything over that is pushing it. You'll also have a stroke until you rack up a few charge cycles because out-of-the-box it's pretty scary.
- Certain apps think you're in the UK. I have to use an old hacked version of Amazon MP3 to get cloud access.
- There's some debate about warranty support. The phone may have to be shipped to the UK if it needs repair. That's HTC's policy (Samsung's is the same) but some people have gotten repairs done in the U.S. It seems pretty random.
- HTC instituted a new warranty policy regarding third party ROMs with the One's. If you unlock the bootloader using HTCdev and they detect a third party ROM was used your h/w warranty is void. Since the bootloader's not unlocked on the U.S. version yet it's too soon to say if the same policy will be applied here.
- You have to buy SquareTrade for ADH since it's not available from AT&T. That also takes care of any issues with HTC not covering the warranty on ROM'd devices. It's transferable so you'll get more for the phone when you're ready to sell it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, Barry. You're a stud, as usual. That actually sounds pretty good. I don't bother with warranties. As long as the place I order from has a decent return policy (in the event it's a lemon), I'm good.
I am a little worried about battery life. All of the reviews made the S4 version sound so good. Battery tests I have seen are all over the place. Seems that the tegra version has longer call time and the S4 has longer web browsing.
I also noticed a thread in the International forum dedicated to complaining about Multitasking, so I wonder if it is still an issue.
Radio is that good, huh? Are you on AT&T? Did you have to set up a specific HSPA+ APN to get full speed? I had to do that on my Nexus.

greyhulk said:
I am a little worried about battery life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It should get you through the day easily syncing, doing productivity stuff, streaming audio, and browsing. Game play and videos will require a top-up.
I also noticed a thread in the International forum dedicated to complaining about Multitasking, so I wonder if it is still an issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They're neurotic. A handful of them bricked their phones screwing around trying to recover what they thought was lost space on the SD partition; even though none of them seemed to actually need the space. HTC's running virtual drives so the phone shows up as "disk storage" vs. using MTP. They racked up 100 pages discussing it. In Astro, I could see it calculating actual files stored correctly but reporting available space differently because an HTC apps was holding space. The space was there if needed because the HTC app would have reduced the cache it was retaining. So it was a reporting error not an actual loss of space. It also would have been the same on the U.S. version and I think with half the storage at least one person would have stumbled upon it. Moral of the story: trust nothing on the international forum.
I know how important multitasking is to you. Give me a list of things you couldn't live without having opened at the same time and I'll test them. I wouldn’t want you buying the phone on hearsay.
Radio is that good, huh? Are you on AT&T? Did you have to set up a specific HSPA+ APN to get full speed? I had to do that on my Nexus.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had the i9100 for eleven months and never got MMS working 100% of the time. With the One X, I popped the SIM in and it read the APNs without me having to do a thing. Keep in mind AT&T's a mess though. F-ups are usually due to the SIM, APNs, and/or plan provisioned on your account not lining up. So it's always a YMMV based on the plan linked to your account.

BarryH_GEG said:
I know how important multitasking is to you. Give me a list of things you couldn't live without having opened at the same time and I'll test them. I wouldn’t want you buying the phone on hearsay.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You also have the Nexus. How does battery life compare to your Nexus? Mine has been stellar. If it's anything like the Nexus (or better), I'll be fine.
As for multitasking: It's not really like that. I fast switch between apps all the time, but I don't have a particular usage scenario. To me, ICS is made for multitasking, thus the dedicated button, so nerfing it seems ridiculous.
Mostly, I see myself multitasking between my bank app and calculator or a web page (which I already know refreshes) and e-mail. Sometimes, I multitask between the gallery and messaging, if I'm looking for a pic to send or a particular image. Maps and e-mail (if someone gives you directions or sends you an address).
Honestly, I tend to open apps from the tray most of the time, but I sometimes use the multitasking button to go back to one I used recently. Even on the nexus, those will die after a while.
My one other true, main concern is push e-mail. Someone in the AT&T forum reported that it was just the AT&T versions having that issue. I really need to believe that because if I get the International version and it's still a problem, I'll be sad. I suppose I could wait for an update, but it's that critical to me. My job depends on timely responses to e-mail.

A way to tell the 'mileage' equivalent of a device? (usage history/battery cycles)?

Hi xda,
So I'm trying to sell my used google pixel -- 120gb (mint condition.)
The thing is -- that It's essentially brand new in terms of usage, it sat on my desk used sparingly for many months due to getting busy with life and
purchasing two phones with only meaning to keep one. And now that I want to sell it, I want to be able to convey that in my Swappa posting that its essentially more 'new' than the manufacturing date may imply.
Is there any statistic that Android carries onto the hardware/bios of the phone that cant be wiped/reset without some difficulty, that can serve the same purpose of an odometer in a car? (Or another example -- when you sell DSLR's used on the open market they often post things like 'shutter click count' sort of stats, to indicate the 'mileage' on the body of the unit).
I've looked into battery cycles but so far found nothing solid, hoping more android pro's know something that can help~!
Also ive looked into battery specific apps, but most seem to ask for root access, and while I can root it, I think some sellers might not prefer it, especially if it'd be only for the purpose of finding one or two statistics. Any other way, or are such stats essentially meaningless on android?
thanks!!

you could just say that it hasnt been used much. honestly, whats more important is how much warranty is left on the phone, especially the pixel since many of them have hardware issues popping up.

The only thing I've seen that comes close to what you're asking for i had on my galaxy s6. It was phone info Samsung app and it gave all kinds of info about the device including how many times the charger had been plugged in as well as the headphone plug. Mine had been plugged in what seemed like a ridiculous amount of times. I think it was well over a thousand, not sure how that's possible. I don't have root now so I can't get that stat out of it anymore. Not sure if there is something similar for other phones.

Question 4G vs 5G power consumption

Is there any noticable power consumption difference between using 4G vs 5G?

Oh yes, nothing's for free.
Depends somewhat on usage.

goldenr said:
Is there any noticable power consumption difference between using 4G vs 5G?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
5G takes more power as it has weak signal and constantly switching between 4G\5G. If your cell tower nearby you good to stay on 5G all the time.
5G for me is just marketing things to sell updated smartphones, 112mbps on 4G LTE is more that enough for everything

That makes sense. Central London is good but where i live there is no 5G. I believe it is at least once in a while trying to look for 5G. And worse if the signal is weak and it keeps switching between 4g and 5g.
I heard that the 5g for s22 is optimised as in its a bit slower but uses less power than previous gen

goldenr said:
That makes sense. Central London is good but where i live there is no 5G. I believe it is at least once in a while trying to look for 5G. And worse if the signal is weak and it keeps switching between 4g and 5g.
I heard that the 5g for s22 is optimised as in its a bit slower but uses less power than previous gen
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The newer flagships are a mess. No SD card slot, spen on left side, but it's not just these obvious blunders.
Variable refresh rate displays consume more power and have looser color calibration than fixed rate. Failure rates are high and more issues.
Android 11 and especially 12 are fubar. CPU cycle sucking scoped storage degrades performance, battery life and user/app functionality. It sucks, literally.
The limited storage means just like Apple even if can find the pricey 500gb, that's it. Peasants are only allotted a certain amount of real storage, go eat cloud. Some shipping out at 128gb are sick jokes. One SD card slot and a $75 V30 512gb Sandisk extreme card use to able fix that.
No power user flagships because peasants can't be power users.
108mp cam hype crap instead of solid tangible cam improvements. Let make it thicker and heavier too. This the same company that made to N10+? How did they learn to fail so quickly? Idiots.
Because of these reasons, and the fact that the Note 10+ is a snappy fast phone that's fun to use, I blew off 3 generations of new flagship phones.
Bought a second new 4G Note 10+ about 5 months ago running on Android 10. The one in my hand is running on Pie. Current OS load will be 2 yo in June, still fast, stable with minimal maintenance. One battery replacement, display is perfect... it runs, looks and feels like the new one even after heavy usage for 2.5 years.
Usability and functionality are more important than new hardware, technology and firmware. Especially when the newer versions/technologies are poorly implemented or still need more improvement.
Bottom line; forget the endless sales hype and buy what suits your needs best.

Go into the stores and test out the display models

galaxys said:
Go into the stores and test out the display models
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No
Got 2 good runnin' N10+s, a cheap grandfathered unlimited data 4G plan and I just don't care.
Next upgrade is a 1tb V30 SD card.

blackhawk said:
No
Got 2 good runnin' N10+s, a cheap grandfathered unlimited data 4G plan and I just don't care.
Next upgrade is a 1tb V30 SD card.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We all know you think your Note 10 is the greatest thing since sliced bread, it's all we ever hear from you. Enjoy 2019, most of us have moved on.

I have found no difference in battery behavior between 4g and 5g in my dual sim device. I only get 4g on one and get 5g on the other. Same (poor) battery life. For me anyway.

True. I'd rather have more slower but more efficient CPU and GPU if it means longer lasting battery. In fact SD gen 1 and Exynos 2200 are less efficient than 2-3 gen old CPUs, which doesn't not make sense to me.
To be fair Samsung has done a good job with thermal management. I like the fact that phone never gets that hot.

hand-filer said:
We all know you think your Note 10 is the greatest thing since sliced bread, it's all we ever hear from you. Enjoy 2019, most of us have moved on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He definitely LOVES his N10+ It's starting to get annoying how much hate can one provide without even owning the device

blackhawk said:
The newer flagships are a mess. No SD card slot, spen on left side, but it's not just these obvious blunders.
Variable refresh rate displays consume more power and have looser color calibration than fixed rate. Failure rates are high and more issues.
Android 11 and especially 12 are fubar. CPU cycle sucking scoped storage degrades performance, battery life and user/app functionality. It sucks, literally.
The limited storage means just like Apple even if can find the pricey 500gb, that's it. Peasants are only allotted a certain amount of real storage, go eat cloud. Some shipping out at 128gb are sick jokes. One SD card slot and a $75 V30 512gb Sandisk extreme card use to able fix that.
No power user flagships because peasants can't be power users.
108mp cam hype crap instead of solid tangible cam improvements. Let make it thicker and heavier too. This the same company that made to N10+? How did they learn to fail so quickly? Idiots.
Because of these reasons, and the fact that the Note 10+ is a snappy fast phone that's fun to use, I blew off 3 generations of new flagship phones.
Bought a second new 4G Note 10+ about 5 months ago running on Android 10. The one in my hand is running on Pie. Current OS load will be 2 yo in June, still fast, stable with minimal maintenance. One battery replacement, display is perfect... it runs, looks and feels like the new one even after heavy usage for 2.5 years.
Usability and functionality are more important than new hardware, technology and firmware. Especially when the newer versions/technologies are poorly implemented or still need more improvement.
Bottom line; forget the endless sales hype and buy what suits your needs best.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i am also having trouble connecting to Smartswitch on PC to create a backup

joancolmenares said:
He definitely LOVES his N10+ It's starting to get annoying how much hate can one provide without even owning the device
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do what I do and hit the ignore button. Like this... bye

chillsen said:
i am also having trouble connecting to Smartswitch on PC to create a backup
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Never count on SmartSwitch for critical data backup. It may or may not work.
Hand copy/paste, then verify copied files are complete and readable.
Use at least 2 hdds that are physically and electronically isolated from each other and the PC to redundantly backup all critical data.

blackhawk said:
Never count on SmartSwitch for critical data backup. It may or may not work.
Hand copy/paste, then verify copied files are complete and readable.
Use at least 2 hdds that are physically and electronically isolated from each other and the PC to redundantly backup all critical data.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you saying literally just manually select all and copy onto desktop? If I were to factory reset my phone, if i simply move all the files back to my phone from PC it will "restore" it perfectly?

Everytime I sit the setting to be only 4g , something changes it back to 5g

chillsen said:
Are you saying literally just manually select all and copy onto desktop? If I were to factory reset my phone, if i simply move all the files back to my phone from PC it will "restore" it perfectly?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I always set up dual drive PCs including the phone if I have an SD card.
In that case I more or less just copy the SD card folder by folder. You may want to a sync folder for large folders like music and photos.
For a single drive backup is similar. Break out/tag folders that need to be backed up.
Keep these well organized.
Vet files before transferring them to the above folders from the Download folder. The Download folder does not get saved; files are either vetted and transferred to their appropriate folder or discarded. The Download folder is a safeguard to help isolate infected files from the database.
You need to work out a system of folder organization for your data. Best if the folders and data on the phone correspond to the ones in use on the PC. You need to put some thought into it
Back up any apps that allow data backup like Poweramp, contacts, bookmarks, etc. These must be backed up on SD card (if present) and the backup hdds, etc or they will be lost with a crash. Make sure all passwords are somehow backed up.

Android 2tb external drive limit workaround

I know Android has 2tb limit when it comes to external drives. You can work around filesystem, drives and whatnot, but that size limit seems to be unavoidable.
Having several drives larger than 2tb I'd like to be able to access to them, at least to read them. Is there no way at all to do it?
Partitioning IS NOT AN OPTION, the drive is in a single partition because Windows sees it just fine and has to be like that. I know you can partition it in smaller size, but that's just not what i'm looking for. I mean even Apple can do it with their iPads, why Android still has that 2tb limit?

NaXter24R said:
I know Android has 2tb limit when it comes to external drives. You can work around filesystem, drives and whatnot, but that size limit seems to be unavoidable.
Having several drives larger than 2tb I'd like to be able to access to them, at least to read them. Is there no way at all to do it?
Partitioning IS NOT AN OPTION, the drive is in a single partition because Windows sees it just fine and has to be like that. I know you can partition it in smaller size, but that's just not what i'm looking for. I mean even Apple can do it with their iPads, why Android still has that 2tb limit?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If possible, this would have to be achieved by building your own custom kernel for your device with support for whatever size external drive you want. Building your own kernel requires building it from source, if the manufacturer of your device has not released a kernel source code for your device, you will not be able to build a custom kernel for your device. You can't achieve what you want by modifying/editing system files or adding additional software or apps. You can't achieve this by editing your device's stock kernel either. Adding features to a kernel requires adding them in the kernel building process, they can't be added by editing a kernel that already exists.
The kernel connects your hardware with your software and controls how your software uses your hardware. This is why you have to build a new kernel in order for your software to be able to use your hardware in a different way than it was designed to do.
If you don't know how to build a custom kernel, you will have to give up on your idea or buy a device that does support larger external drives. No, I don't know how to build a kernel and I'm not linking you to any guides because there are none that are comprehensive enough for you to do this from start to finish. You will have to do some Google searching and learn the process for yourself by trial and error until you get it right. Be warned, you could very easily brick the device and make it unuseable and unrepairable if you do not build the kernel correctly.

Droidriven said:
If possible, this would have to be achieved by building your own custom kernel for your device with support for whatever size external drive you want. Building your own kernel requires building it from source, if the manufacturer of your device has not released a kernel source code for your device, you will not be able to build a custom kernel for your device. You can't achieve what you want by modifying/editing system files or adding additional software or apps. You can't achieve this by editing your device's stock kernel either. Adding features to a kernel requires adding them in the kernel building process, they can't be added by editing a kernel that already exists.
The kernel connects your hardware with your software and controls how your software uses your hardware. This is why you have to build a new kernel in order for your software to be able to use your hardware in a different way than it was designed to do.
If you don't know how to build a custom kernel, you will have to give up on your idea or buy a device that does support larger external drives. No, I don't know how to build a kernel and I'm not linking you to any guides because there are none that are comprehensive enough for you to do this from start to finish. You will have to do some Google searching and learn the process for yourself by trial and error until you get it right. Be warned, you could very easily brick the device and make it unuseable and unrepairable if you do not build the kernel correctly.
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I imagine that unfortunately.
I find it sto stupid that even Apple with iPadOS has better support for something that, in 2022, should be so obvious. I mean, drives larger than 2tb are a thing, and with stuff like USB hub and Samsung DEX using drives bigger than 2tb seems something that people could easily encounter.
But I also think this is some android limit, but I haven't dug too deep to find that out. There is so little online that is hard to understand why there is such limit.
I would be happy to use my tablet as a laptop replacement, but having to adapt my hdd choice seems stupid to me.

NaXter24R said:
I imagine that unfortunately.
I find it sto stupid that even Apple with iPadOS has better support for something that, in 2022, should be so obvious. I mean, drives larger than 2tb are a thing, and with stuff like USB hub and Samsung DEX using drives bigger than 2tb seems something that people could easily encounter.
But I also think this is some android limit, but I haven't dug too deep to find that out. There is so little online that is hard to understand why there is such limit.
I would be happy to use my tablet as a laptop replacement, but having to adapt my hdd choice seems stupid to me.
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Yes, but mobile devices are not powerful machines like PC. Also, drives of that size require power, they are typically powered by the device they are connected to. That means adding unnecessary power drain on a mobile device, it would severely reduce battery life. They don't design them to use larger drives because it just isn't a smart or reasonable alternative, they assume the user is reasonable enough to understand that using a laptop or PC for that purpose is the better solution for using large drives. It is more reasonable to use those drives with a laptop or PC because they are more capable of powering drives of that size without excessive battery drain.
Just because iPad "can" use large drives, doesn't mean it is good at it or that it is an intelligent solution. It is just a selling point, not really a bonus or good thing.
There are no tablets on the market that are capable of effectively being used as a laptop replacement, they will never be able to perform at the level that laptop and desktop does. It isn't an android limitation, it is a technological limitation. The reason is because it is extremely hard to build a compact device with large amounts of processing power, large power capacity and intensive power usage because these factors generate a lot of heat, heat that compact devices can't handle or dissipate without throttling or slowing down performance. Which equals, it just isn't effectively reasonable.

Droidriven said:
Yes, but mobile devices are not powerful machines like PC. Also, drives of that size require power, they are typically powered by the device they are connected to. That means adding unnecessary power drain on a mobile device, it would severely reduce battery life. They don't design them to use larger drives because it just isn't a smart or reasonable alternative, they assume the user is reasonable enough to understand that using a laptop or PC for that purpose is the better solution for using large drives. It is more reasonable to use those drives with a laptop or PC because they are more capable of powering drives of that size without excessive battery drain.
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Power is not an issue. There are hubs. If i can hook stuff to a tablet and use it as a desktop replacement when i'm traveling, I don't see why I can't use an external drive. Moreover, a 1tb drive use the same power as a 4tb one. They're both USB. Is a sw thing, not hw. Sure there are some device without enough power to start the drive, but almost any decent tablet can do it. Plus, as I said, Apple does it with their iPad Pros. Also, I could be using an external powered drive, is just a USB cable.
Just because iPad "can" use large drives, doesn't mean it is good at it or that it is an intelligent solution. It is just a selling point, not really a bonus or good thing.
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On the contrary, I have a perfectly capable device of taking advantage of an external drive, and i'm limited by the OS. And the joke is that such OS is Android which loses against Apple in this case. As I said, i think is a joke I'm able to use something like Samsung DEX and not being able to access a drive just because is bigger than 2tb.
A missing feature is a missing feature.
There are no tablets on the market that are capable of effectively being used as a laptop replacement, they will never be able to perform at the level that laptop and desktop does. It isn't an android limitation, it is a technological limitation. The reason is because it is extremely hard to build a compact device with large amounts of processing power, large power capacity and intensive power usage because these factors generate a lot of heat, heat that compact devices can't handle or dissipate without throttling or slowing down performance. Which equals, it just isn't effectively reasonable.
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Again, what if I have to dump footages and media from my device to some external device? Do I need to carry a laptop in order to do that when a tablet would be perfectly capable of doing it? Again, is a sw issue, not hw. I can edit a video on a laptop or on a tablet just in the same way. That has nothing to do with power. This is an outdated thing that limits some user for no apparent reason (i'm sure there is, and I'm sure is some outdated thing from the past).
I mean, I can use other filesystem, why the heck would I have to be limited by the size of an external drive?

NaXter24R said:
Power is not an issue. There are hubs. If i can hook stuff to a tablet and use it as a desktop replacement when i'm traveling, I don't see why I can't use an external drive. Moreover, a 1tb drive use the same power as a 4tb one. They're both USB. Is a sw thing, not hw. Sure there are some device without enough power to start the drive, but almost any decent tablet can do it. Plus, as I said, Apple does it with their iPad Pros. Also, I could be using an external powered drive, is just a USB cable.
On the contrary, I have a perfectly capable device of taking advantage of an external drive, and i'm limited by the OS. And the joke is that such OS is Android which loses against Apple in this case. As I said, i think is a joke I'm able to use something like Samsung DEX and not being able to access a drive just because is bigger than 2tb.
A missing feature is a missing feature.
Again, what if I have to dump footages and media from my device to some external device? Do I need to carry a laptop in order to do that when a tablet would be perfectly capable of doing it? Again, is a sw issue, not hw. I can edit a video on a laptop or on a tablet just in the same way. That has nothing to do with power. This is an outdated thing that limits some user for no apparent reason (i'm sure there is, and I'm sure is some outdated thing from the past).
I mean, I can use other filesystem, why the heck would I have to be limited by the size of an external drive?
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You can disagree if you want, but, it doesn't change the fact that power usage and heat generation ARE the reasons why.
I didn't say that a tablet couldn't use large drives and I didn't say that a tablet couldn't do the things you described. I said that they are not reasonably effective tools for those purposes, which is why there is no focus on building them for those purposes.
A lot of the things that you want to use the tablet for are actually intensive activities. Video editing, for example, depending on the video and the kind of editing that you do, tends to be intensive and can be long duration processes, the more RAM and more processing power, and the more battery life, the better, which is why laptop and PC are better suited for these purposes. Sure, some tablets can do it, but in reality, they just aren't completely up to the task, especially in the long term.
When I said, large drives, I meant drives larger than the device has on-board. It had nothing to do with 1TB vs 2TB vs 4TB.
To give you a metaphor, a mechanic has to choose the best tool for the job, why purposefully choose to use a lesser tool when a better tool already exists?
Power usage, performance and heat generation are the 3 main things taken into account when designing compact devices all of which are increased by the kinds of activities you are discussing.
But, I know I'm wasting my time trying to use logic with you when all you are focused on is your own personal convenience.

Droidriven said:
You can disagree if you want, but, it doesn't change the fact that power usage and heat generation ARE the reasons why.
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Sorry but I strongly disagree.
Power is the same. The exact same. A 2.5" 500gb use the same power as a 2.5" 4tb drive. Heat is the same as well since the specs are very much the same beside space.
Droidriven said:
I didn't say that a tablet couldn't use large drives and I didn't say that a tablet couldn't do the things you described. I said that they are not reasonably effective tools for those purposes, which is why there is no focus on building them for those purposes.
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It might be, but I see this as a lack of foresight. That 2tb limit is a sw thing. The drive is perfectly seen and recognized, but the space is not. This is why you can partition a 16tb drive in 8 2tb partitions and see them all.
Droidriven said:
A lot of the things that you want to use the tablet for are actually intensive activities. Video editing, for example, depending on the video and the kind of editing that you do, tends to be intensive and can be long duration processes, the more RAM and more processing power, and the more battery life, the better, which is why laptop and PC are better suited for these purposes. Sure, some tablets can do it, but in reality, they just aren't completely up to the task, especially in the long term.
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I know, but they're designed to do that. I'm not doing anything weird, the manufacturer expects me to do it. And i'm doing it there because in some case is better to bring a tablet than a laptop. Is that simple.
Is like buying a car and having the air conditioning not working past 35° ambient temperature because "is a bit too hot".
I think Google forgot about it since there isn't that much audience for that, but is actually becoming an issue. Media use a ton of space and larger drives are a thing.
being able to access something via OTG was one of they key features of android and now is a limit. Even Apple do this better now.
Droidriven said:
When I said, large drives, I meant drives larger than the device has on-board. It had nothing to do with 1TB vs 2TB vs 4TB.
To give you a metaphor, a mechanic has to choose the best tool for the job, why purposefully choose to use a lesser tool when a better tool already exists?
Power usage, performance and heat generation are the 3 main things taken into account when designing compact devices all of which are increased by the kinds of activities you are discussing.
But, I know I'm wasting my time trying to use logic with you when all you are focused on is your own personal convenience.
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Is not about personal convenience. The drive use the same exact power. Simple as that. Is a 5v 900mA USB drive. This is true vor every USB drive. SSD, HDD, anything.
As I said, is a sw thing so whatever you said about hw and power is straight up false.
What I asked is why there is in 2022 this limit and if there is a way to avoid it, since is a SW limit. Especially now with Google TV I don't understand understand they have this limit. Even Chrome OS doesn't have that.
About your example, this is not a better tool. This is a lack of a tool.

NaXter24R said:
Sorry but I strongly disagree.
Power is the same. The exact same. A 2.5" 500gb use the same power as a 2.5" 4tb drive. Heat is the same as well since the specs are very much the same beside space.
It might be, but I see this as a lack of foresight. That 2tb limit is a sw thing. The drive is perfectly seen and recognized, but the space is not. This is why you can partition a 16tb drive in 8 2tb partitions and see them all.
I know, but they're designed to do that. I'm not doing anything weird, the manufacturer expects me to do it. And i'm doing it there because in some case is better to bring a tablet than a laptop. Is that simple.
Is like buying a car and having the air conditioning not working past 35° ambient temperature because "is a bit too hot".
I think Google forgot about it since there isn't that much audience for that, but is actually becoming an issue. Media use a ton of space and larger drives are a thing.
being able to access something via OTG was one of they key features of android and now is a limit. Even Apple do this better now.
Is not about personal convenience. The drive use the same exact power. Simple as that. Is a 5v 900mA USB drive. This is true vor every USB drive. SSD, HDD, anything.
As I said, is a sw thing so whatever you said about hw and power is straight up false.
What I asked is why there is in 2022 this limit and if there is a way to avoid it, since is a SW limit. Especially now with Google TV I don't understand understand they have this limit. Even Chrome OS doesn't have that.
About your example, this is not a better tool. This is a lack of a tool.
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As I already said, it has nothing to do with how much power a 2TB drive uses compared to a 4TB drive. When engineers design devices, it is designed with the intent that the battery should be big enough to power the device itself and its own internal hardware for a certain period of time. Being able to power the device itself and also power external hardware while also having the battery to last the intended period of time means that a larger battery must be used in order to power the extra hardware without reducing how long the device can operate, this effects the size of the device this effects hardware design, this effects software design, these factors effect the costs of design and manufacture of the device(which get passed to the user). To power extra hardware means larger battery, which effects overall size of the device, amout of space to fit the other hardware inside the device, where and how each component is positioned without interfering, where heat is generated and how it is dissipated.
The heat I was referring to was heat generated inside the tablet by the "extra" activity of powering the external device and the extra load on the processor and performance loss due to operating over USB. More work means more heat, period, its a law.
Besides, the larger majority of users don't use tablets for the kinds of things you're talking about. This also comes into play when designing a device, why should they add a feature to suit a small demographic?
I'm giving you real world reasons why it isn't done from an engineering perspective.
You are giving me reasons why it "should" be done from a user perspective.
The engineering/cost perspective comes first because that is where the rubber meets the road, user perspective comes last.
If an engineer were to design a device for the express purposes that you have discussed, I can promise you that it wouldn't be a small, compact thing like a tablet.
There are plenty of powerful slim laptops that are comparable in size to some tablets and they can do the job better, for longer than a tablet can.
Do you think the average user would choose a device with less performance that has to be charged more often in order to be used the way you are describing? Or do you think the average user would choose a device that is better suited to the task and doesn't have to be charged as often?

Droidriven said:
As I already said, it has nothing to do with how much power a 2TB drive uses compared to a 4TB drive. When engineers design devices, it is designed with the intent that the battery should be big enough to power the device itself and its own internal hardware for a certain period of time. Being able to power the device itself and also power external hardware while also having the battery to last the intended period of time means that a larger battery must be used in order to power the extra hardware without reducing how long the device can operate, this effects the size of the device this effects hardware design, this effects software design, these factors effect the costs of design and manufacture of the device(which get passed to the user). To power extra hardware means larger battery, which effects overall size of the device, amout of space to fit the other hardware inside the device, where and how each component is positioned without interfering, where heat is generated and how it is dissipated.
The heat I was referring to was heat generated inside the tablet by the "extra" activity of powering the external device and the extra load on the processor and performance loss due to operating over USB. More work means more heat, period, its a law.
Besides, the larger majority of users don't use tablets for the kinds of things you're talking about. This also comes into play when designing a device, why should they add a feature to suit a small demographic?
I'm giving you real world reasons why it isn't done from an engineering perspective.
You are giving me reasons why it "should" be done from a user perspective.
The engineering/cost perspective comes first because that is where the rubber meets the road, user perspective comes last.
If an engineer were to design a device for the express purposes that you have discussed, I can promise you that it wouldn't be a small, compact thing like a tablet.
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What I'm saying is that most device can ALREADY POWER external HDD just fine. Basically any decent tablet which is not a cheap one can do it, easily. The only limit is the size. This has nothing to do with engineers, or power or whatever. They already went throgut that and we already have this feature. What is lacking now is support to bigger drives due to some lazyness I think.
Now, as I said there is already support to other filesystem, so you're free to use the same storage on different platforms, and, digging a bit: I've found this.
Also there is some interesting stuff about Android TV. Apparently you need to format through the OS in order to use it. I guess it would be ext4 or something like that, but still, playback and recording limit is way higher.
Also, digging more it seems that it is possible, although a bit messy. It works like 50% of the time for some reason, but it is possible. Is not native tho. This is what i'm complaining for.