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Hi everyone,
I am new here, I hope I get the xda-dev etiquette right, if not please tell me.
I am thinking about getting a TF700T as a replacement for my current (really old) notebook [I do normal computing on a desktop]. I will briefly describe what I had in mind and would be grateful for any comments on that. Please note that I am new to the whole Android thing, but that I am an experienced unix hacker, so I hope to learn the stuff quickly.
Why dualboot?
- it will replace a laptop
- for most things android will be the right thing, but in certain situations I want a full unix operating system
Which Android?
- I want a mod that has minimal amount of non-free software and good performance
- I don't mind if everything doesn't work perfectly right away and I don't mind twaeking around, but it should work somehow in the end
- I want encryption (is supposedly available in stock ICS already)
- I don't need any Google-Apps, I plan to use f-droid for applications
=> I thought about CM9 or CM10
Which second OS?
- Obviously GNU/Linux
- frequent updates and bleeding edge software
- no gimmicks, no useless stuff
=> Debian SID ARM?
What are your general thoughts on this?
Has anyone tried dual booting the TF700(t) yet? I read sth about an Ubuntu-dualboot on the TF300...
What are your thoughts on my choice of mod? Is it the right thing for my usecase?
What are your thoughts on my choice of Linux distribution? Did any of you see a native Debian ARM on a recent tablet?
Is there a recommended reading list for people who want to dive into this whole thing and not just follow step-by-step instructions to unlock/root/reflash their device? Like information about general boot-up process, partitioning etc
Thank you for your help!
h?2 said:
Hi everyone,
I am new here, I hope I get the xda-dev etiquette right, if not please tell me.
I am thinking about getting a TF700T as a replacement for my current (really old) notebook [I do normal computing on a desktop]. I will briefly describe what I had in mind and would be grateful for any comments on that. Please note that I am new to the whole Android thing, but that I am an experienced unix hacker, so I hope to learn the stuff quickly.
Why dualboot?
- it will replace a laptop
- for most things android will be the right thing, but in certain situations I want a full unix operating system
Which Android?
- I want a mod that has minimal amount of non-free software and good performance
- I don't mind if everything doesn't work perfectly right away and I don't mind twaeking around, but it should work somehow in the end
- I want encryption (is supposedly available in stock ICS already)
- I don't need any Google-Apps, I plan to use f-droid for applications
=> I thought about CM9 or CM10
Right now, we dont have an unlocked bootloader and as such we dont have roms. But when we do get them, CM9/10 would be an excelent choice since they're fully open source and google apps are optional. Pretty much any rom you find will support encryption since its a core feature of ICS.
Which second OS?
- Obviously GNU/Linux
- frequent updates and bleeding edge software
- no gimmicks, no useless stuff
=> Debian SID ARM?
Again, because we lack an unlocked bootloader, you cant run native linux yet. The closest we can get is a chroot environment, but its not flawless. Namely, Android has no native X server support, so if you wanted to run X applications the only way to do so would be through VNC which is kinda slow. Fast enough for text and menu heavy stuff, but dont even think of video or gaming.
Looking at the OG Transformer and the Transformer Prime as precedent though, I'd be surprised if we didnt get native linux at some point. Probably some flavor of Ubuntu, but if that runs I figure it wouldn't be that difficult to get Debian running.
What are your general thoughts on this?
Has anyone tried dual booting the TF700(t) yet? I read sth about an Ubuntu-dualboot on the TF300...
I'm actually planning on doing the same thing, sans no google apps. My old laptop is kinda heavy, so I relegated it to desktop duty and used an HP Touchpad for a while in its place. It worked decently, and I figure the TF700 will do a much better job from form factor alone.
The version of Linux on the TF300 or other Transformers wont work on the TF700 as the hardware is slightly different.
What are your thoughts on my choice of mod? Is it the right thing for my usecase?
Depends entirely on what you want to use your tablet for.
What are your thoughts on my choice of Linux distribution? Did any of you see a native Debian ARM on a recent tablet?
The Motorola Xoom and HP Touchpad both have nice looking debian ports. You're probably looking for hardware a little more recent though, I'm not really sure what your options are. Debian is a nice distribution with pretty good arm support, you cant really go wrong with it.
Is there a recommended reading list for people who want to dive into this whole thing and not just follow step-by-step instructions to unlock/root/reflash their device? Like information about general boot-up process, partitioning etc
I don't have an answer here... I'd actually like to know this myself!
Thank you for your help!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What I could answer, is in bold.
Jotokun said:
What I could answer, is in bold.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was an extensive and quality answer. Nothing more to add, except that the OP is doing fine. Don't worry too much about etiquette; as long as the question posed is sincere, the harshest that could happen is your post being moved to another forum.
We don't bite (at least, not that hard).
Welcome!
Jotokun said:
What I could answer, is in bold.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you very much for the complete answer! I wasn't aware that the bootloader is still locked, while itsunlocked on the other transformers... Have there been any announcements or rumors from ASUS on if/when the unlock tool will arrive for the Infinity?
MartyHulskemper said:
We don't bite (at least, not that hard).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good to know
So no further reading hints? Maybe I should ask this one again in the general Android forums?
h?2 said:
Thank you very much for the complete answer! I wasn't aware that the bootloader is still locked, while itsunlocked on the other transformers... Have there been any announcements or rumors from ASUS on if/when the unlock tool will arrive for the Infinity?
Good to know
So no further reading hints? Maybe I should ask this one again in the general Android forums?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not yet, but the other Transformer devices got theirs about a month after launch, so we'll probably see one around mid to late August.
Please don't get a tablet to replace a notebook. If you must do so, please get an ipad instead so that when you come back to ***** about how your tablet doesn't feel like a laptop, it will be the iFans' problem not ours.
goodintentions said:
Please don't get a tablet to replace a notebook. If you must do so, please get an ipad instead so that when you come back to ***** about how your tablet doesn't feel like a laptop, it will be the iFans' problem not ours.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its called realistic expectations. For lightweight tasks it should be just fine. Obviously you're not going to compile code, edit video or play Crysis on it. For web browsing and lightweight office documents, it'll be fine. You also missed the part where he said he wanted to dual-boot which would indeed make it more of a true laptop functionality wise.
Jotokun said:
Its called realistic expectations. For lightweight tasks it should be just fine. Obviously you're not going to compile code, edit video or play Crysis on it. For web browsing and lightweight office documents, it'll be fine. You also missed the part where he said he wanted to dual-boot which would indeed make it more of a true laptop functionality wise.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even with dual boot, at best it will feel like a netbook. Ever since the transformer first came out, I've seen dozens of people whine about how their transformer didn't feel like a laptop. Heck, I saw this even when the ipad was the only tablet in town. New ipad users would whine and whine and whine that the ipad didn't feel like a laptop. They bought the tablet with the attitude of using it like a notebook, and then the huge disappointment hits.
Just wait and see the same OP come back a couple months later whining to us how no matter what he tried he couldn't get his infinity to act like a notebook. Like I said, I've seen this before.
as the seconds OS, i'd love Windows 8...or RT
polish_pat said:
as the seconds OS, i'd love Windows 8...or RT
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Win8 wont ever run because its made for x86 cpus, but someone might be able to hack WinRT onto it. I'll admit it'll probably be cool if it happens... but the locked down environment would be a bit of a deal killer for me.
goodintentions said:
Even with dual boot, at best it will feel like a netbook. Ever since the transformer first came out, I've seen dozens of people whine about how their transformer didn't feel like a laptop.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A Netbook experience is good enough for me. Like I pointed out, I do have a Quadcore-8GB-RAM Desktop that I use to work productively. Right now I have a DualCore-1.6Ghz-32Bit-Notebook, for mobile use, which has poor battery life and takes long to go on and off, and it is slowly falling apart (flickering screen once in a while). I don't even mind the performance on the device, I worry more about weight, long boot-up time, 1h20min battery life.This device and use-case I hope to replace.
Do you really think I will be dissappointed by the Infinity?
To sum up, what is important to me (many +s => more important):
- mail, browsing, instant-messaging ( +++ )
- contacts and calender (with sync) ( +++ )
- use a terminal / ssh ( +++ )
- not having to worry about battery life and cables, fast on and off ( +++ )
- watching videos while lying on the sofa ( ++ )
- looking at fotos on a nice screen ( ++ )
- reading some pdf files ( ++ )
- hacking some latex or some other small bits of code (can be compiled remotely aswell) ( + )
I couldn't care less about Gaming, Flash-Applications and fancy interface animations (I hope I can deactivate those if they slow things down).
I thought the Transformers would be pretty good at this. Especially the foto-thing with the nice screen resolution and all the mobility stuff, because, well its a tablet with a keyboard
I was mostly worried about the hackability of the device, i.e. being able to adapt the operating system to my workflow and such (thats why I am mostly interested in dualboot, because I know I can tweak a Debian to behave like I want it to). [1]
But if you guys think the transformer really is not good for my use cases, please tell me!
Thanks!
[1] The only slight worry I had about the hardware, is maybe the RAM not being to enough for regular Linux usage (really, considiring how inexpensive RAM is today, and how expensive the other stuff they put in, they could easily have put 2GB in the infinity and charged 10€ more).
h?2 said:
A Netbook experience is good enough for me. Like I pointed out, I do have a Quadcore-8GB-RAM Desktop that I use to work productively. Right now I have a DualCore-1.6Ghz-32Bit-Notebook, for mobile use, which has poor battery life and takes long to go on and off, and it is slowly falling apart (flickering screen once in a while). I don't even mind the performance on the device, I worry more about weight, long boot-up time, 1h20min battery life.This device and use-case I hope to replace.
Do you really think I will be dissappointed by the Infinity?
To sum up, what is important to me (many +s => more important):
- mail, browsing, instant-messaging ( +++ )
- contacts and calender (with sync) ( +++ )
- use a terminal / ssh ( +++ )
- not having to worry about battery life and cables, fast on and off ( +++ )
- watching videos while lying on the sofa ( ++ )
- looking at fotos on a nice screen ( ++ )
- reading some pdf files ( ++ )
- hacking some latex or some other small bits of code (can be compiled remotely aswell) ( + )
I couldn't care less about Gaming, Flash-Applications and fancy interface animations (I hope I can deactivate those if they slow things down).
I thought the Transformers would be pretty good at this. Especially the foto-thing with the nice screen resolution and all the mobility stuff, because, well its a tablet with a keyboard
I was mostly worried about the hackability of the device, i.e. being able to adapt the operating system to my workflow and such (thats why I am mostly interested in dualboot, because I know I can tweak a Debian to behave like I want it to). [1]
But if you guys think the transformer really is not good for my use cases, please tell me!
Thanks!
[1] The only slight worry I had about the hardware, is maybe the RAM not being to enough for regular Linux usage (really, considiring how inexpensive RAM is today, and how expensive the other stuff they put in, they could easily have put 2GB in the infinity and charged 10€ more).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry to push this, but I am really undecided after your previous comments and after having bought na Android phone that doesn't really make me happy software-wise.
Does anyone have more thoughts on this?
Thanks.
The TF700 running Android is fine for all of these and in my opinion better than netbook running Windows, but it's far less comfortable to do some pro Office stuff on it, although not impossible. I think you'll be fine for these, especially with the FHD screen (I read many pdfs and I like it much better on my Infinity) and a rooted device (ssh, term), offline sync (esp. with Google) is also the best under Android IMHO.
The bootloader can be unlocked now, but you'll have to do some research yourself for the Linux capabilities there.
h?2 said:
A Netbook experience is good enough for me. Like I pointed out, I do have a Quadcore-8GB-RAM Desktop that I use to work productively. Right now I have a DualCore-1.6Ghz-32Bit-Notebook, for mobile use, which has poor battery life and takes long to go on and off, and it is slowly falling apart (flickering screen once in a while). I don't even mind the performance on the device, I worry more about weight, long boot-up time, 1h20min battery life.This device and use-case I hope to replace.
Do you really think I will be dissappointed by the Infinity?
To sum up, what is important to me (many +s => more important):
- mail, browsing, instant-messaging ( +++ )
- contacts and calender (with sync) ( +++ )
- use a terminal / ssh ( +++ )
- not having to worry about battery life and cables, fast on and off ( +++ )
- watching videos while lying on the sofa ( ++ )
- looking at fotos on a nice screen ( ++ )
- reading some pdf files ( ++ )
- hacking some latex or some other small bits of code (can be compiled remotely aswell) ( + )
I couldn't care less about Gaming, Flash-Applications and fancy interface animations (I hope I can deactivate those if they slow things down).
I thought the Transformers would be pretty good at this. Especially the foto-thing with the nice screen resolution and all the mobility stuff, because, well its a tablet with a keyboard
I was mostly worried about the hackability of the device, i.e. being able to adapt the operating system to my workflow and such (thats why I am mostly interested in dualboot, because I know I can tweak a Debian to behave like I want it to). [1]
But if you guys think the transformer really is not good for my use cases, please tell me!
Thanks!
[1] The only slight worry I had about the hardware, is maybe the RAM not being to enough for regular Linux usage (really, considiring how inexpensive RAM is today, and how expensive the other stuff they put in, they could easily have put 2GB in the infinity and charged 10€ more).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I personally think its great for those use cases. I am a developer and I use it for remote development all the time via SSH.
I would not buy it if you expect to run Debian or any other Linux distribution on the tablet natively. It is more difficult to get Linux running that it would seem. This is especially true if you want a responsive UI because 2D accel is usually difficult. Without 2D acceleration then the already slow CPU will be bogged down just trying run the display. All that said, it is quite possible that we may get Linux running well on the TF700(I plan to work on this myself at some point) but I wouldn't count on it.
I was in the same boat as you but I actually find I rarely want/need a true GNU Linux set up on my Transformer. Much of what I would have used I wind up doing it via SSH. If you really needed to do it locally you could use a chroot.
dalingrin said:
I would not buy it if you expect to run Debian or any other Linux distribution on the tablet natively. It is more difficult to get Linux running that it would seem. This is especially true if you want a responsive UI because 2D accel is usually difficult. Without 2D acceleration then the already slow CPU will be bogged down just trying run the display. All that said, it is quite possible that we may get Linux running well on the TF700(I plan to work on this myself at some point) but I wouldn't count on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It looks like (binary ) drivers for X11 are available from nvidia and on their way into Debian:
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=634100
So UI should be responsive with both 2d and 3d accel...
I was in the same boat as you but I actually find I rarely want/need a true GNU Linux set up on my Transformer. Much of what I would have used I wind up doing it via SSH. If you really needed to do it locally you could use a chroot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a device now, and I am not too happy with the software, e.g. there is no proper Free Software email client. K-9 mail is only designed for phones and the tablet version by the same people is proprietary.
I definitely want to persue the native dual boot plan. If you are also interested in this, maybe we can team up?
Other than that I am still waiting for CM builds, although I am unsure if they will actually improve the experience.
The hardware of the tf700t is really great, though, I absolutely love the display, the keyboard is ok, too and battery life is top notch.
It's probably not what you want.
This may look like a rant, but I am writing this more as a cautionary tale so others can avoid making the mistake I did.
I'm the kind of person who obsessively researches everything before buying. When I bought the TF700, I made a very thorough search for features and drawbacks. I was aware that the RAM was not upgradeable, and that was fine by me. I saw the wifi and microSD slot issues the prime is plagued with - wifi coverage being a top priority for me along with battery life, and a safe SD card slot crucial if I was going to have just 32GB of internal storage), and I concluded the Infinity was a safer choice, even if I didn't care for the better screen. I was aware the processor had a different architecture, but linux runs on ARM and so does windows 8. What I was not aware of, because I did not even think it could work like this, is that this not a computer.
I really can't stress this enough. This is not a computer. There's no plain old bios, no freedom to partition your drive as you wish and installing whatever OS you damn well please. After plenty of bad experiences with warranties, I won't risk voiding it to unlock the bootloader (and a two-year warranty at that - the joys of being european), and even if I did, all I've recently read on dual booting gives me the impression of it being awkward and cumbersome to use - no friendly neighbourhood grub configuring, and way more firmware flashing than I'm comfortable with.
If you DON'T want to risk voiding your warranty, expect plenty of headaches trying to get linux running inside android , a non upgradeable linux image, and an unusable graphical interface. What was said about it being slow but okay for menu heavy stuff? It's not. Not, at least, if you plan on using a programming IDE like eclipse, it isn't. I spent the whole day today looking for VNC alternatives and trying to get RDP or X11 Forwarding to work (there is a basic X server android port which works with connectbot, after all), but getting the X server to start from the mounted ubuntu image has proven to be beyond my knowledge.
In short this has proven to be for me just an expensive web browsing toy, definitely more expensive than what I can afford if it's not going to be a true workstation. The worst part? It's a pretty awesome toy at that, and if fnac will let me exchange it, it will be pretty hard for me to part with it. I still love the TF700 for what it is, but I can't afford this and a new computer.
At first this looks like a laptop, quacks like a laptop... but won't really swim or fly. So, if you need more than web browsing, movie watching and document editing, save yourself the trouble and the hurt.
I disagree with the people saying that you would not be happy with the TF700.
It is obviously true that the Infinity is not a laptop. It's not even a "proper" netbook, as most people would assume a netbook has an x86 processor. Saying that it will outright not satisfy someone is illogical, though. Just because h?2 mentioned that he wishes to replace a laptop doesn't mean that (s?)he is immediately not going to be able to accomplish the tasks that he planned to use a laptop for with the TF700.
I had a standard sort of Asus EeePC netbook for a few months and then began playing with Android tablets. I ended up settling on the original Transformer tablet with its keyboard dock. The things I was using the netbook for were immediately taken over by the Transformer, and after having not used my netbook for 4 months, I just gave it to my mother. The tablet was good enough for browsing the web (and with Chrome browsing has gotten significantly better than it had been when I first got the tablet), staying on top of email in almost real-time, music, my video library, Netflix and Hulu, and keeping track of my servers via SSH.
I have settled on some apps that I'll suggest to you for some of the things you are trying to accomplish:
Maildroid - This is the only e-mail client that meets all of my needs - Free
Better Terminal Emulator Pro (BTEP) - This is an amazing terminal client and SSH client... worth every penny!! - $3.99 (USD)
Chrome - Every Android browser had at least one issue that I hate. Chrome has changed that, and I use it exclusively - Free
TeamViewer - This is one of the easiest to use remote GUI clients available, and it works with Linux and Windows - Free for non-commercial use
TeamViewer isn't perfect... it isn't free open-source software, but it gives me fantastic control of my Windows PC without forcing my session to log off when I log in remotely with remote desktop. Remote desktop on Win 7 Ultimate does strange things and does not allow multiple users to log in the same way it does on Windows Server 2008 R2. TeamViewer allows me to take advantage of my tremendously powerful home desktop PC (with a Core i7-3930K) and all its virtual machines when I need to do some real computing.
BTEP is the absolute best terminal and SSH client program that I have found, and I have tested pretty much every one that was available a year ago. It allows you to use the tablet itself as if it is a minimalist GNU/Linux machine, which comes in handy more often that you might think, assuming you are used to the Linux command line. The SSH client is also great, and supports key pair authentication. I IRC from my Linode (a Linux VPS company) VPS, and BTEP allows me to bind the volume and a few other buttons to normal keyboard buttons. I can use the volume buttons to send the key bindings for F1 and F2, which are bound to previous and next window in IRSSI. It is useless for most people, but the fact that they put the thought into supporting that tells you something about their forethought when developing this software. It is one of only a very few apps that I decided were worth spending money on.
With the combination of TeamViewer and BTEP, I have access to all the computing and network resources that I could ever need. I often use TeamViewer if there is a pressing reason to use Firefox on my desktop rather than the tablet's mobile browser. I can also remotely work with LibreOffice if I need to do anything that I don't feel Polaris Office can handle. I don't even have the temptation to bother installing Ubuntu on my tablet because I simply don't need that functionality. I can get everything done that I need using Android and the apps available in the Google Play market.
So, yeah, a tablet is not a laptop, but sometimes a tablet is all you really need. It sounds a lot like h?2 doesn't need much more than a tablet with a nice physical keyboard. Tweaking the tablet to run or dual-boot Debian is something that may not even need to be done, but he can certainly take on that challenge because he might find it fun!
IT Wannabe;32653963Tweaking the tablet to run or dual-boot Debian is something that may not even need to be done said:
Certainly, but don't forget the bit about losing the warranty if you unlock the bootloader. I for one don't like gambling hundreds of euros that way.
You raised an excellent point there: if one needs to do some actual development but doesn't mind a) requiring a second machine always connected and b) requiring to always be online in order to work, then it's okay. That is not my case though. Even if I don't require a great deal of computing power, I do require a true workstation, and the ability to work offline. If those are dealbreakers for the OP, he will indeed be better off avoiding making the mistake I did.
Oh - and from my experience tweaking, much like cooking, stops being fun once you have no other choice but doing it. (Right now, for instance, I'm tearing my hear out getting the wifi to work again after rooting. I guess I'll just reset everything to stock and return it to fnac before my month is due.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What would be required to make Android for Surface RT? The exploit to get into kernel mode exists, so this is more about what is required to get Android running.
Surface RT has a Tegra3 with 2 GB RAM, but I don't know much more than that about the actual hardware. Does Android have drivers for such hardware already?
I'm more of a Windows person. I don't know Linux internals very well.
Myriachan said:
What would be required to make Android for Surface RT? The exploit to get into kernel mode exists, so this is more about what is required to get Android running.
Surface RT has a Tegra3 with 2 GB RAM, but I don't know much more than that about the actual hardware. Does Android have drivers for such hardware already?
I'm more of a Windows person. I don't know Linux internals very well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The biggest challenge would be loading Linux and getting it not to panic immediately.
Other than that, there are tegra drivers available, but I seem to recall that the OEMs customize certain aspects, such as memory mappings, that we'd either have to reverse engineer from Windows or just straight up guess on.
netham45 said:
The biggest challenge would be loading Linux and getting it not to panic immediately.
Other than that, there are tegra drivers available, but I seem to recall that the OEMs customize certain aspects, such as memory mappings, that we'd either have to reverse engineer from Windows or just straight up guess on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think another hard part would be implementing some sort of way to capture the output of Linux's console once the NT kernel is gone.
I don't think that getting the memory mappings would actually be too difficult, if we know the devices.
Myriachan said:
What would be required to make Android for Surface RT? The exploit to get into kernel mode exists, so this is more about what is required to get Android running.
Surface RT has a Tegra3 with 2 GB RAM, but I don't know much more than that about the actual hardware. Does Android have drivers for such hardware already?
I'm more of a Windows person. I don't know Linux internals very well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
NVidia have a full linux for tegra project. They like OEMs to keep the devices similar to an extent I think. You can buy tegra dev boards as a consumer (although they have ridiculous prices).
Much of the surface hardware interfaces via i2c as per the microsoft windows 8 hardware guidelines. UART usage is not allowed so much in Windows 8 for internal devices but the tegra does have quite a few UARTS and I presume bare minimum 1 of them is accessible externally, question is how or where. Quite a few methods have been used on phones for adding external serial access, but who knows where it would be on the RT, would take some very intimate PCB tracing to work out where the hell it is if it is there. Common ones I have seen have been a specific resistor value used on the sense line for a USB-OTG adaptor to then trigger a pinmux to swap USB D+ and D- for a serial Tx and Rx, any other value would then trigger the USB host function as you would expect such a cable to do. Same has been done on the nexus 4 between the microphone and ground pins on the audio jack. iPhones and I think the galaxy tabs have them in their regular plug (well, all iOS devices with a 30 pin connector rather than lightning, galaxy tabs also have their own large pin count connector instead of a microUSB).
The RT, well the external keyboard connector is 6 pins. Keyboard, mouse and accelerometer all interface via the i2c bus which is 2 pins (SDA, SCL), all comms need a ground and a VCC connection of some sort is required. thats 4 pins accounted for. For some reason though 1 of the pins isn't connected within the tablet itself, so there are only actually 5 pins. Could the 5th be a sense line?
Android on RT, well, android is linux kernel based. So start with linux on RT and your probably most of the way there. Once your that far you might aswell get a "regular" linux distro on there, if you had full hardware support and were to run lets say ubuntu (for simplicities sake) you probably have a device far more useful than Windows RT now that you are free of the RT limitations
Oh, android kernel sources for several tegra devices are available too I think.
But I am guessing the biggest obstacle is getting the RT to even attempt to boot a linux kernel.
---------- Post added at 11:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:28 PM ----------
Oh, anyone really interested in whats under the hood of that chip: https://developer.nvidia.com/tegra-3-technical-reference-manual
Display might cause a slight issue. Tegra has both DSI and LDVS display support. Which one is the Surface using is unknown. If I had to hazard a guess, I would wager the surface uses DSI. Mostly because it has an HDMI output, the tegra does not support HDMI output natively, however converting a set of LDVS signals to HDMI (and vice versa) are relatively straight forward compared to DSI. You can get DSI screens in the RT's size, so I would guess they use DSI for the screen and LDVS with an adaptor for the HDMI, or if someone was testing the display output of the RT, you could just presume its LDVS for instance and simply connect the RT to a display as it boots linux and see whether the internal or external displays come on first I guess, or device manager in windows might shed some light (or it might not).
There is PCIe in there, wouldnt surprise me if they use it for networking. I dont see anything else suited to the task particularly (outside of special use cases, SPI is often used for an arduino for example, but at the same time it isnt streaming youtube in 1080p).
The issue here is there is too few devs on xda working on the RT. This is going to stay until more people get RT devices. Look at the HP Touchpad, the dev community was stagnant until the fire sales. After the fire sales, people started ports of android and now afaik, there are fully working ports.
I believe a similar thing must occur for the Surface RT, perhaps clearing stock at $300-$350 with keyboard. Get more people onboard and some serious dev work will begin. MS won't have fire sales, they are not going to close down the RT division anytime soon so chances are, it'll just be some sale to clear old stock.
Actually they are having a sale right now. In korea atleast. 310,000krw (approx US$277) for a 32gb surface and touch cover..
Sent from my MB860 using xda app-developers app
This may sound dumb but, wouldn't it be simpler to drop linux from android and run android natively on windows? Just like normal software in fullscreen.
After all, android is a shell ontop of an OS.
These guys did it on x86 (Surface Pro): http://windroy.com/
ScRePt said:
This may sound dumb but, wouldn't it be simpler to drop linux from android and run android natively on windows? Just like normal software in fullscreen.
After all, android is a shell ontop of an OS.
These guys did it on x86 (Surface Pro): http://windroy.com/
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They are not first to do so. Bluestacks and JarOfBeans.
Android mostly consists of the dalvik virtual machine and a few libraries, its a complex project though and it does rely heavily on linux capabilities, I think Bluestacks uses cygwin extensively, which isnt available for RT and is very complex itself.
Its actually incredibly difficult to do what you propose. It might actually be simpler to get the linux kernel booting, besides, the linux kernel on an RT device would be more useful in the long term as it would open the door to running Ubuntu or something on the device.
I referred windroy because I am quite amazed of it's speed.
I thought they just wrapped the linux calls to call the winapi and thus it seemed simpler than porting a whole OS
@ threadstarter:
just buy a nexus tablet if you are in android THAT much.
The idea is to have both Windows and Android... there's no ARM tablet that can currently do that. Besides, "put Linux on it" is a time-honored hacking tradition. It doesn't even need to be practical, really. Myriachan has already done some very cool work for the community, too... https://twitter.com/Myriachan/statuses/365350790803619840
unbenannt said:
@ threadstarter:
just buy a nexus tablet if you are in android THAT much.
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Not sure if you realise who the thread starter was. One of the people who works on jailbreaking the RT and porting applications in the first place, not some random noob saying "herpa I want android derpa".
Its almost unwritten law that when a new device comes out, someone needs to get linux booting on it. Someone has even booted linux on an 8bit AVR microcontroller (AtMega328 specifically I think, although technically they cheated by wiring an actual RAM DIMM module to it and an SD card and then hand writing an ARM emulator which then loaded a linux for ARM port up, took a few hours to boot actually ). Chumbys, DVD set top boxes, phones, watches, anything including the nexus tablet actually https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nexus7/Installation. NEEDS LINUX.
Anyway. If you could boot linux on it then an RT tablet then to many people it would become instantly more usable, its actually the sort of thing that would make me interested in using my 10% off voucher for one.
lambstone said:
The issue here is there is too few devs on xda working on the RT. This is going to stay until more people get RT devices. Look at the HP Touchpad, the dev community was stagnant until the fire sales. After the fire sales, people started ports of android and now afaik, there are fully working ports.
I believe a similar thing must occur for the Surface RT, perhaps clearing stock at $300-$350 with keyboard. Get more people onboard and some serious dev work will begin. MS won't have fire sales, they are not going to close down the RT division anytime soon so chances are, it'll just be some sale to clear old stock.
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Well, Microsoft just sold 10,000 RT devices on their "manufacturer_certified" eBay account at firesale prices.
about 7,500 Surface RT 32GB with touch cover sold for $199.
and 2,500 Surface RT 64GB sold at $199
I picked up one at this price, obviously a lot of others did as well.
brad1825 said:
Well, Microsoft just sold 10,000 RT devices on their "manufacturer_certified" eBay account at firesale prices.
about 7,500 Surface RT 32GB with touch cover sold for $199.
and 2,500 Surface RT 64GB sold at $199
I picked up one at this price, obviously a lot of others did as well.
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Hm. Any link to show where you got the figures?
If they indeed sold 10k RT devices, this could bring a boost to the RT dev environment.
my surface is perfect, no hacking needed. does 99% of wat a tablet should do. perfectly
spaco22 said:
my surface is perfect, no hacking needed. does 99% of wat a tablet should do. perfectly
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Good for you, you really needed to post that? This thread is here for those where the tablet does not do what it should do for some users...
This thing is practically doing a touchpad style firesale for black friday. The hardware is nice for the $200 price point, but I won't bother getting one unless there's a decent chance of an Android port (RT is useless.)
Any work towards that end since this thread died off?
Rakeesh_j said:
This thing is practically doing a touchpad style firesale for black friday. The hardware is nice for the $200 price point, but I won't bother getting one unless there's a decent chance of an Android port (RT is useless.)
Any work towards that end since this thread died off?
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Sorry for that, but in my opinion Android on a tablet is useless...! Except of the case you want many useless apps and games on your tablet...
On RT you have much more opportunities e.g. full USB support full working Office and much more!!!
Gesendet von meinem GT-I9100
lambstone said:
The issue here is there is too few devs on xda working on the RT. This is going to stay until more people get RT devices. Look at the HP Touchpad, the dev community was stagnant until the fire sales. After the fire sales, people started ports of android and now afaik, there are fully working ports.
I believe a similar thing must occur for the Surface RT, perhaps clearing stock at $300-$350 with keyboard. Get more people onboard and some serious dev work will begin. MS won't have fire sales, they are not going to close down the RT division anytime soon so chances are, it'll just be some sale to clear old stock.
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Fire sales have begun! Hoping to pick mine up on Black Friday!
http://www.microcenter.com/product/412706/Surface_RT_32GB_with_Black_Touch_Cover
lambstone said:
MS won't have fire sales, they are not going to close down the RT division anytime soon so chances are, it'll just be some sale to clear old stock.
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Don't be so sure about that.
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/nov/26/microsoft-kill-windows-rt-larson-green
http://www.geek.com/microsoft/windo...according-to-microsofts-devices-lead-1578243/
MisterKrispy said:
Fire sales have begun! Hoping to pick mine up on Black Friday!
http://www.microcenter.com/product/412706/Surface_RT_32GB_with_Black_Touch_Cover
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$179.99 seems about right for standing out in the cold.
lambstone said:
The issue here is there is too few devs on xda working on the RT.
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Not for long.
Hello friends,
windows phone is dead. Now millions of good and partially excellent pieces of hardware will be trashed in a short period of time, because software support is degrading rapidly. Think about the poisenous waste and the valuable raw materials. I'm not, but my girl friend's phone is affected as well.
Can that be true? - During the last years, several times messages popped up stating "install android on a windows phone is possible". Soem may have been fake, some more serious.
https://www.windowslatest.com/2017/08/05/install-android-on-lumia/
https://www.wpinternals.net/index.php/downloads
Shouldn't it be possible to port something like lineageOS to (most of current) windows phones, as by now there is a serious necessity to do so? Of course, this is an awful lot of work, which may not be possible to be done for free. But what about a bounty on that purpose? I'd be willing to set up such a bounty and manage it, but I do need some advice before, so here are my first questions:
Is there a fair chance for that project in general? Or is it bare nonsense?
Is "bountysource.com" the most recommended platform for that project - or is there a better choice?
I guess, there are "classes" of windows phones (generations / processor families / whatever). Do some make more sense to be covered by the project - or can we expect to find a solution for really every winPhone?
Which final goal can be achieved? What makes sense? My idea:
- MUST HAVE: touch screen, telephone, wifi, mic, speakers, headphone, SD support, GPS
- NICE TO HAVE: bluetooth, position/acceleration sensor, ambient light sensor
- OPTIONAL: UKW radio, magnetic sensor
Does somebody have a more appealing name than "AOWinP"? (-;
Bthw: We could provide two win phones as a loan to devs who do not own one.
These are my 2cts, hope more knowledgeable people will join in and share their thoughts.
Greetings from Berlin,
Wolf
Hey not sure on any of the reasons why you wouldn't be able to do this, but I had an idea.
Replacement s10 rear camera parts are roughly $30 or so...
I would like to purchase a few of them in addition to the ones I have.
Then hook them up to a virtual / emulated phone run off my pc... So they would still be able to process the images / video as if they where connected to an actual phone...
(Not sure if this is necessary but I assume so.)
Ideally I would like them to be wireless so I'm thinking some sort of raspberry pi...
(Not sure at all though... Just sounds like a logical to me)
The purpose is simple...
Have a few replacement s10 camera small and compact to be able to use on drones place them around and use them as camera's.
As far the the technical aspect I have no idea...
Not sure what software or hardware to use...
Or if they can be used with 3rd party hardware / software.
(please let me know)
If you have another solution that's awesome, but I would prefer the route of connecting replacement s10 or any model camera as I already have a few from damaged phones etc....
Would love to here what you phone guru's have to say.
Peace
Mike.
Yes its beautiful looks
MIKE.MAN said:
Hey not sure on any of the reasons why you wouldn't be able to do this, but I had an idea.
Replacement s10 rear camera parts are roughly $30 or so...
I would like to purchase a few of them in addition to the ones I have.
Then hook them up to a virtual / emulated phone run off my pc... So they would still be able to process the images / video as if they where connected to an actual phone...
(Not sure if this is necessary but I assume so.)
Ideally I would like them to be wireless so I'm thinking some sort of raspberry pi...
(Not sure at all though... Just sounds like a logical to me)
The purpose is simple...
Have a few replacement s10 camera small and compact to be able to use on drones place them around and use them as camera's.
As far the the technical aspect I have no idea...
Not sure what software or hardware to use...
Or if they can be used with 3rd party hardware / software.
(please let me know)
If you have another solution that's awesome, but I would prefer the route of connecting replacement s10 or any model camera as I already have a few from damaged phones etc....
Would love to here what you phone guru's have to say.
Peace
Mike.
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Click to collapse
Too complicated, it is easier to just buy cameras that are already designed to work in this manner for this purpose.
Engineering your own will probably require redesigning hardware and building custom software to handle the task of using multiple cameras. All in all, way more trouble than it is worth.
Sent from my SM-S767VL using Tapatalk
Droidriven said:
Too complicated, it is easier to just buy cameras that are already designed to work in this manner for this purpose.
Engineering your own will probably require redesigning hardware and building custom software to handle the task of using multiple cameras. All in all, way more trouble than it is worth.
Sent from my SM-S767VL using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
Thanks man as I've been reading and watching more about CSI to USB connectors and understanding slight more the scale of complexity this would involve... I'm starting to realize that this task is far too complex for me to crack...
Wish it was easier though, I feel like thoes cameras have so much potential.
Why I'm proposing it: Arduino and Raspberry Pi have been popular learning tools and hobbyist project foundations for years. People use them to automate filling their fish tank, watering their plants, build gyrocopters out of them, create home automation solutions, and more often than not, make some LEDs blink as their first start in the long road toward Computer Science. They're cheap, they have their uses, and if you want them to do more, you can buy addons called "shields", making your board bulkier, more complicated, and more expensive. Let's face facts: we're in a world that is throwing V20's away, and an old V20 has an infinitely better collection of sensors, display features, touch digitizer, audio input AND output (I mean, Quad DAC vs ... what, a crappy piezo and PWM on an Arduino?), and the love many of us still hold for this great piece of old hardware.
What I'm proposing: We use thread to look into adapting it to have GPIO pins, and then throw together a way to use it as the foundation for such projects. There is no Arduino in the world, and few Raspberry Pis that have the video and audio capabilities, as well as sensors the V20 comes with, for free, since you already own it and it's sitting in a box, or perhaps you already recycled it, since so many of they are dying with the 5G switchover. I got this idea and couldn't find any resources on how to do it, so I went the Arduino route to build my washing machine electronics, and while learning that I stumbled on how Android can have GPIO via FTDI USB Adapters / Breakout Boards and a kernel patch, so I'm making this thread to get started on that.
Anyone interested in running with the ball, go right ahead and post what you've already done in this area, or scoff at me. If I succeed, the scoffing will fall away, and if I don't, at least I'll learn from failing.
Here's the start for how to get simple data out of V20, via USB2Serial hardware. https://github.com/mik3y/usb-serial-for-android
And here's straight GPIO from Android, but it still requires root to add a driver to the kernel: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/55130034/android-ftdi-ft232h-compatibility
It's not exactly reusing the volume buttons as GPIO, but it's neat.
Hmm i'm interested in this, i could definitely look into this
Keyosuke said:
And here's straight GPIO from Android, but it still requires root to add a driver to the kernel: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/55130034/android-ftdi-ft232h-compatibility
It's not exactly reusing the volume buttons as GPIO, but it's neat.
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Tell me more!