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I use the phone overclocked and non overclock and i cant seem to notice a difference at all in the phones preformance. At stock speeds it is just as fast as overclocked. There doesnt seem any difference in noticable speed of overclocking to me. Do any of you notice a difference.
i see a difference on some of the more laggy roms but it is small. think about it, the most you can see is a posible 20% at 1200mhz and with cpu scaling it isn't that often it usses 1200. although that is significant you still have the same memory bandwidth and file read/write speeds. the responsiveness difference in the kernel has more to do with available ram and kernel hz. as well as aggressiveness in cpu throttling.
overclocking is more for benchmarks and bragging rights. it's for those that need to tweak and whatever or those that need to say theres is better. i can turn the phone down to 600mhz on the old 2.1 kernels that had that step added in before i could notice and it still wasnt laggy much beyond the normal touchwiz. even 400 was usable.
now if the phone is older and the os and apps push the boundries of its capabilities by all means overclock to keep up with the times. otherwise it is preference for your own personal reasons. i do it to test what the phone is capable of. but i often have it disabled.
there is power locked away in these phones that we havent seen yet, the 3d processor can run opengl at framerates better than older laptops i have used and after all these months no other manufacturer has felt the need to compete with it. some open gl benchmarks are fully twice as high as a droid 2/x and 20% better than the newest htc phones running qualcom chips and even the motorolas are considered to have a power gpu. it is a great gaming platform as is and the gpu is stable at 11% overclock, some phones at 25% overclock and maybe beyond. if you flash a custom rom that doesnt lag and do the whole ext4 or jfs conversion you should be happy with the performance of the phone untill your contract is up and maybe beyond. the technology is accelerating faster than the software.
after honeycomb and dualcore platforms hit the shelves then the software that will take advantage of our hidden power will start to roll out. at this time too many android phones are running at 500-600 mhz with little opengl capability, even the popular 1ghz snapdragon phones like the evo as well as they benchmark cant run 3d applications very well and there popularity is holding up software devlopment is some way. there isnt much money in apps that only run on the top 5% of the phones out there. we will have to wait till the droid2/x galaxy s and g2 and mt4g are the norm and there are faster platforms available before we see great differences in overclocking. maybe honeycomb or whatever comes after that will use some opengl in the ui or something, who knows.
Dani897 said:
i see a difference on some of the more laggy roms but it is small. think about it, the most you can see is a posible 20% at 1200mhz and with cpu scaling it isn't that often it usses 1200. although that is significant you still have the same memory bandwidth and file read/write speeds. the responsiveness difference in the kernel has more to do with available ram and kernel hz. as well as aggressiveness in cpu throttling.
overclocking is more for benchmarks and bragging rights. it's for those that need to tweak and whatever or those that need to say theres is better. i can turn the phone down to 600mhz on the old 2.1 kernels that had that step added in before i could notice and it still wasnt laggy much beyond the normal touchwiz. even 400 was usable.
now if the phone is older and the os and apps push the boundries of its capabilities by all means overclock to keep up with the times. otherwise it is preference for your own personal reasons. i do it to test what the phone is capable of. but i often have it disabled.
there is power locked away in these phones that we havent seen yet, the 3d processor can run opengl at framerates better than older laptops i have used and after all these months no other manufacturer has felt the need to compete with it. some open gl benchmarks are fully twice as high as a droid 2/x and 20% better than the newest htc phones running qualcom chips and even the motorolas are considered to have a power gpu. it is a great gaming platform as is and the gpu is stable at 11% overclock, some phones at 25% overclock and maybe beyond. if you flash a custom rom that doesnt lag and do the whole ext4 or jfs conversion you should be happy with the performance of the phone untill your contract is up and maybe beyond. the technology is accelerating faster than the software.
after honeycomb and dualcore platforms hit the shelves then the software that will take advantage of our hidden power will start to roll out. at this time too many android phones are running at 500-600 mhz with little opengl capability, even the popular 1ghz snapdragon phones like the evo as well as they benchmark cant run 3d applications very well and there popularity is holding up software devlopment is some way. there isnt much money in apps that only run on the top 5% of the phones out there. we will have to wait till the droid2/x galaxy s and g2 and mt4g are the norm and there are faster platforms available before we see great differences in overclocking. maybe honeycomb or whatever comes after that will use some opengl in the ui or something, who knows.
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agreed
overclocking seems pretty pointless at this point other than bragging rights
the only situation i can see it being handy are game emulators
Don't forget HQ flash streams on the browser, like some on justin.tv. My personal experience was that at 1 ghz it was a little bit choppy, and according to the rom as well, somewhere between 1.2 and 1.4 it becomes really smooth. Though if I used skyfire to watch it is smooth at stock speed, but some quality is lost in the optimization.
Am I the only one that thinks there is a difference at this? I also think the performance on heavy flash web pages improves when I use oc.
I have not seen any real difference in other than flash performance though... But I was kind of expecting this since in my desktop I had to use oc for it to work smoother as well.
Hi,
Does anyone know if there will be any perceivable difference in battery life between the latest batch of smartphones based on single core 45nm SoCs and the new 45 nm dual core versions.
All manufacturers state state improved performance AND lower power consumption with the dual cores, but I am wondering how this will affect my day-to-day battery life. I actually read somewhere that e.g. Tegra 2 phones may drain the battery quicker instead of saving power.
I was planning to buy the Desire Z or Galaxy S, but I may also wait for their upgrades if this will mean better battery life. I am not too eager about the performance improvements as I am not a gamer and will likely not feel the benefits (I mostly browse 3G or WiFi/use GPS/occasionally may play a movie + a couple of calls a day).
I'm expecting the battery life to be a bit low seeing that they have a "lot" of things in them.... I reckon it maybe the same as current smartphones?
Apparently battery times will be better, let´s see...
what i have learned that dual cores will save energy. (well atleast tegra 2) that soc has sth like 7 different cores if i remember right, each and every one of them made for a specific purpose (audio play/ video encode/ decode/ gpu....a nd other things i dont remember) so the soc it self will use only what YOU need at that very moment, lets say ur watching a vid, so only the video decode core will work whereas other should be in standby or sth.
(imo battery life should increase cuz of this, not sure how much tho)
and excuse me if my knoweledge isnt exatcly correct on this matter
There are two train of thoughts here:
1) as the die gets smaller (65nm[1st gen snaps] to 45nm[2nd gen snaps] to 40nm [tegra2] to 28nm[3rd gen snaps], etc), the processor tends to draw less energy. So yes, most dual cores (having a smaller die) SHOULD be more energy efficient.
2) With dual core, executions get carried out a lot faster than they were on single core. As evident by the benchmark done on dual cores (+2000 and up), it'll take less time to start/process a program and UI, in theory, should be a lot faster and smoother (that is if manufacturers don't start ****ing around with a UI and make it sluggish). Being that it's faster and a lot more versatile than single core, people will tend to youtube a lot, play games a lot, and generally use a lot more multimedia applications. Being that we don't have a self-sustaining energy source that isn't radioactive, the battery will drain from excessive use.
So at the end of the day, it depends on your use. Yes, dual cores are more energy efficient than single core, but in the hands of a 15yo teenage girl with more life than paris hilton, they probably get the same battery life as any other phone out there.
Hi guys,
thanks for the comments and predictions. My prediction would be that there would be hardly any noticeable change between the single & dual core 45 nm chips (given same usage of course), similar to how there was almost no change when switching from 65nm to 45nm chips - which are more energy efficient as well.
the better energy efficiency seems to be quickly soaked up by more power hungry hardware and software. so it all boils down to whether one needs the better performance as the battery life will likely stay the same.
But this of course is only a prediction based on past observation. I hope I am wrong and I am still considering if it is worth waiting for the dual core devices to hit the market. In the meantime if anyone has had a chance to play with such a device (tablet?), any additional info will be welcome
So they say faster phones wont sell as well now and all these other things. I agree, Dont need a faster super quad core or any of that kinda crap. The main bottleneck in 99% of all phones is the cheap flash memory they use. A good portion of the boot time that our phones have is nothing to do with the processor. Its reading the slow flash memory.
You can do a simple test to realize how slow by copying pictures out of your phone. You may get 7-8mb a sec. But if you try to use the phone its lagged to hell if it has to open anything (which most is not saved in ram anymore)
Anybody else think they should give us faster flash memory in the phones vs faster cpus?
I have no complaints about them making a lower power consuming cpu for phones though. We do need better battery life even still.
pohone is a phone,not a compulter
Computers are the same way.. Bottle necked by storage not cpu.. Unless u game and this has nothing to do with gaming performance
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Hi all,
I've had my Surface Pro 2 256/8 since release and all has been fine until (possibly) the firmware update.
Turbo Boost was working fine and the CPU was going up to its maximum of 2.6Ghz but it is now seemingly capped at 2.23Ghz.
I've checked in PC Settings, Task Manager and CPU-Z, the maximum that the CPU ever reaches is 2.23Ghz, as indicated.
Anyone else experienced this? I have tried all power profiles (Performance, balanced, Power Saver and there's no difference).
Thanks!
EDIT: Having used HWiNFO64 on the High Performance profile I can see that the core is limited to x23 which is producing the 2.3Ghz clock speed. It occasionally indicates x26 (2.6Ghz) for a millisecond before ThermMon shows that it is being throttled back to x23. So it appears it's not reaching maximum speed to keep the heat lower, why this has happened is still inconclusive..
Have you tried to change the CPU maximum utilization in power settings?
Sent from CM10.1 U9200
>I've had my Surface Pro 2 256/8 since release and all has been fine until (possibly) the firmware update.
You've answered your own question. One reason to cap speed is for battery life. That's what the latest firmware update provides. You've found the downside.
http://www.theverge.com/2013/11/4/5064026/microsoft-surface-pro-2-battery-life-firmware-update
So they cap turbo mode to increase battery life, given the SP2 is advertised as having an Intel i5 CPU with no mention of speed on the MS site I think they'll get away with it...
e.mote said:
>I've had my Surface Pro 2 256/8 since release and all has been fine until (possibly) the firmware update.
You've answered your own question. One reason to cap speed is for battery life. That's what the latest firmware update provides. You've found the downside.
http://www.theverge.com/2013/11/4/5064026/microsoft-surface-pro-2-battery-life-firmware-update
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Well, in that case, the CPU shouldn't be capped when NOT running on battery power, should it?
There is also cooling to consider regardless of if it is on battery or mains. Although was heat particularly problematic pre-update?
>Well, in that case, the CPU shouldn't be capped when NOT running on battery power, should it?
As another noted, SP2 slicks never said CPU would be running at max spec.
PCs are normally more configurable. But if you enter SP2's UEFI setup, the only thing you can change is Secure Boot. MS is emulating Apple in more ways than one.
The cynics among us (guilty as charged) would say that MS handled this just right: Release the device with uncapped speed to get the best possible performance for reviews. Then afterward, cap the speed to claim "improved battery life" as well. If MS had capped the speed to start with, SP2 would be no faster than SP, and would get slammed hard. SP2 is already slammed as having minimal improvements over SP.
Reviewers aren't going to take the trouble to revise their reviews, and even if they did, not many people will re-read them. So, with this method, you can indeed have your cake and eat it too. Think of it as a more "legal" form of juicing performance tests without the explicit cheating that Samsung and others resorted to.
e.mote said:
> SP2 is already slammed as having minimal improvements over SP.
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Anyone thats knows the difference between the CPU's will know that theres not a huge speed increase though, the only thing they should of done was stick a decent SSD in there, I've got an unused PX-256M5M sat on my desk that reads/writes at near on full sized 2.5" SSD speeds where as the mSSD's have always had half decent read and poor write.
Other than that what else is there to improve on, the camera perhaps as per the Surface2, battery life, check, the only other thing the Pro/Pro2 needs imho is more accesories, yes they are coming but should of been ready at launch imho, I'm crying out for a dock...
I was wondering about... Is it true if x64_x86 build (arm64) uses more RAM than just x86 (arm)? Considering this phone can't take any advantages of 64 bit OS (cmiiw), I just wonder whether it's possible to build the x86 ROM version of any available custom ROM out there?
I know only a little about theoretical of why it wouldn't be easy task / wouldn't possible perhaps due to its kernel only available in x64_x86 build... or it needs a lots of codes rework (since C++ x64 has additional instruction/data types which not available in x86), or its blobs only available in x64_x86... So, anyone has more convincing arguments about this task?
Hi x3r0.13urn
Just to clarify things: our Mi4c/s is built with a arm 64 SoC (system on a chip), and x86 means a different processor architecture (like computer cpu's) so there are 4 (common) cpu architectures:
"Normal" CPU: x86 (32 bit) and x64 (64bit)
"Mobile" CPU: Arm (32bit) and Arm64 (64bit)
So your question is, if it would have any benefits building an arm (32 bit) kernel/rom/Firmware for our arm64 Mi4c/s.
As the CPU itself is made for Arm64 i think there are lots of optimizations (things I, the noob, doesnt understand) in the Kernel/Firmware/Rom so it would be useless to go back to the old arm 32 bit environment (DEV's correct me if i'm wrong).
An idea of mine: Why not build an ARM64 Rom with small textures and low resolution? The screen would look **** but i think there would be many battery savings and more performance to use for other things..
Greetings
Wertus
I don't see why you need better performance, Mi4c is an already powerful device.
Regarding OP, there is no 32bit kernel developed for any msm8992 phone, as Qualcomm made it a 64bit chip and optimized the kernel for 64bit usage. So no, we can't compile a 32bit kernel for msm8992, and even if we did, it would be bad.
Regarding the smaller textures, a lot of Android is now vector graphics, and you can't make them smaller, and having smaller textures than we need would be useless as they would have to be upscaled to display them. The phone might even consume more power to upscale them.
I see... So, if it's true, the problem there's no x86 kernel source thus afflicts other aspects. It's quite shame... since even up till today, 32-bit only OSes (Windows, *nix) are still available.
I agree on, yes SD 808 packs a punch to withstand today's need. Regarding about textures, I take it we're talking about resolution downscaling (from 1080p to 720p?), would save few MiB of RAM usage, and it will also lower CPU usage, though in my personal experiences, it won't prolong battery life very much.
x3r0.13urn said:
I see... So, if it's true, the problem there's no x86 kernel source thus afflicts other aspects. It's quite shame... since even up till today, 32-bit only OSes (Windows, *nix) are still available.
I agree on, yes SD 808 packs a punch to withstand today's need. Regarding about textures, I take it we're talking about resolution downscaling (from 1080p to 720p?), would save few MiB of RAM usage, and it will also lower CPU usage, though in my personal experiences, it won't prolong battery life very much.
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Windows and Linux distros must run on a lot of machines, and be compatible with all.
The Linux kernel found in a Android device is much different, as it targets one specific chipset, which in this case 64bit. Also, 64bit is overall much better than 32bit, the only drawbacks being RAM usage(but the differences are really small!).
No, I was talking with the other guy which mentioned using lower textures.
About lowering resolution, it can actually get worse. In games where FPS isn't locked CPU can become a bottleneck, because GPU has less work to do and therefore it can finish it faster, then it requests more data from the CPU, and so on, until the CPU can't keep up.
Overall you can't really improve this device much on the speed side of things, and ROM developers try to improve battery life already. The problem is that users use their devices in various ways and you can't make everyone happy.
So yeah, we do our best to optimise stuff and if it hasn't been done then it can't be done or it doesn't improve anything.
Cozzmy13 said:
No, I was talking with the other guy which mentioned using lower textures.
Overall you can't really improve this device much on the speed side of things, and ROM developers try to improve battery life already. The problem is that users use their devices in various ways and you can't make everyone happy.
So yeah, we do our best to optimise stuff and if it hasn't been done then it can't be done or it doesn't improve anything.
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I meant to reduce the resolution (sry, explained it wrong with textures).
Well, i guess a lot of people want to use the Hardware they have (why 720p if u can use 1080p "to show ur friends"?)
I just wonder if one could compile- lets say- an HTC desire HD rom, which works fluently at 700mhz with a single core cpu (and even an old one). So you could adjust the governor settings of the mi4c (with a better optimized cpu, gpu, bigger battery...) and get an incredible battery.
I understand that this is not wanted from most of the users because u have an old system, missing many functions and u cant use your new device to the full excess because of the software.
But to use this rom when i dont have the chance to charge my mobile for 3-5days (with multirom) would be great (if that works how i imagine it).
Edit: And yes, the mi4c is very nice for performance, just the bat could be better
With regards to the battery: unfortunately for the short term, the solution is to buy an external battery (i.e. power bank), or do "extreme" things like switching on aeroplane mode, dim screen, powersave governor, etc.
In the medium term, there are things developers can do. However this work is very detailed and requires lots of testing. There's plenty of tweaks one can make with the CPU core load balancing, voltages, frequencies etc. It's difficult because there are so many knobs to twiddle, and so many ways to make things worse.
terence.tan said:
With regards to the battery: unfortunately for the short term, the solution is to buy an external battery (i.e. power bank), or do "extreme" things like switching on aeroplane mode, dim screen, powersave governor, etc.
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Well, with all connections shut down (except for mobile network, without mobile data) it holds about 2 days (i'm still taking pictures and phoning), which's not bad. i also use my own governor values (gave me the most).
But where to charge the power bank (they are empty fast on festivals..)? xD
Thx for your explanation/help, but i think i'll just end up attaching a stronger battery to my one x (which holds around 1.5-2 days with same usage).
Do you know if i need to adjust any kernel parameters for a new bat (i dont think so)?
wertus33333 said:
Well, with all connections shut down (except for mobile network, without mobile data) it holds about 2 days (i'm still taking pictures and phoning), which's not bad. i also use my own governor values (gave me the most).
But where to charge the power bank (they are empty fast on festivals..)? xD
Thx for your explanation/help, but i think i'll just end up attaching a stronger battery to my one x (which holds around 1.5-2 days with same usage).
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Yeah. I'm not sure that there's a lot more you can do, without a developer actually running a profile on your phone to see what's drawing power.
Along the same lines, performance is important. We have a concept called "race to sleep", which means that the phone runs faster for a shorter time, then can go to idle. This saves power.
One strategy is to use hardware acceleration where possible. For example, using crypto hardware instead of in software. This is one example of a medium-term project that requires lots of testing, because if you get crypto wrong, you can lose your data...
wertus33333 said:
Do you know if i need to adjust any kernel parameters for a new bat (i dont think so)?
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I'd just try it and see if it auto-detects.
Re: aeroplane mode and power saving. Here's the quote I was looking for:
During its research for Project Volta, Google took a Nexus 5 and put it in airplane mode and measured how long it took to die with the screen off. In normal use, the device struggles to last a full day, but while idling like this, it lasted a full month. The takeaway was that if you can just get the phone to stop doing stuff, your battery life will greatly increase. After this research, it's no surprise to see Google focusing on deeper sleep modes.
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Source: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...permission-controls-fingerprint-api-and-more/
This is what I mean by, with a persistent developer who looks for all the details, you can get results like above...
terence.tan said:
Re: aeroplane mode and power saving. Here's the quote I was looking for:
Source: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...permission-controls-fingerprint-api-and-more/
This is what I mean by, with a persistent developer who looks for all the details, you can get results like above...
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My op2 holds around 3 weeks if i only use it as an alarm in the morning (with some minor tweaks, without gapps).
What really made me think is that the op2 with its 5.5" screen and a 3300mah bat gets around 10h SoT (lowest brightness, just idling) and the mi4s with its 3260mah and 5" screen only about 4h SoT (lowest brightness, idling).
Its not that hard to get results like in your link if you adjust the gov to just keep cpu load on the lowest possible. I also got 2 weeks with an SGS plus just idling around, but when i use it to browse the web its empty in 30mins xD.