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Hi there!!
Seems to me no one hasn't began this knd of theme. So. Off. info:
Qualcomm MSM7201a
Two cores
ARM11 + ARM9
528 Mhz (one stated speed for two cores...)
So what is G1's heart for real?
This is quotes from here
#1
Jean-Baptiste Queru 26 нояб 2008, 20:37
Indeed, the CPU in the G1 is clocked lower than its maximum rated
speed to conserve battery life. It's running somewhere between 300 and
400MHz if I remember correctly.
JBQ
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
#2
jdc4429 27 нояб 2008, 17:04
Hi Jean,
So your saying that the CPU speed is not controlled by the Android
software?
I was looking through the code and found this in the arch/arm/mach-msm/
clock.c file...
617 #define CPUFREQ_TABLE_MAX 4
618 static struct cpufreq_frequency_table cpufreq_table[] = {
619 { 0, 81920 },
620 { 1, 122880 },
621 { 2, 245760 },
622 { 3, 384000 },
623 { CPUFREQ_TABLE_MAX, CPUFREQ_TABLE_END },
624 };
It looks like the max speed is set to 384mhz and it seems it can be
easily changed.
It also seems that the phone already downshifts the CPU based on this
table and the
screen_open/closed speed setting...
702 if (screen_on) {
703 policy->user_policy.min = cpufreq_table
[2].frequency; // 245mhz
704 policy->user_policy.max = cpufreq_table
[3].frequency; // 384mhz
705 } else {
706 policy->user_policy.min = cpufreq_table
[0].frequency; // 82mhz
707 policy->user_policy.max = cpufreq_table
[2].frequency; // 245mhz
708 }
Sure looks controllable to me through Android. Is it really that hard
to add a setting to allow min/max settings
to be adjusted by the user?
Thanks
Jeff
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
#3
Romain Guy 26 нояб 2008, 20:39
> Can that
> be changed in software on the fly and was it set below maximum speed
> to help with the battery issue?
No and yes
> Also is anyone working on adding hardware acceleration so we can take
> full advantage of the processor?
We have a prototype of SGL running on top of OpenGL (it was actually
shown publicly in the SDK 0.9) but it's not the correct solution at
the moment.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Coclusion:
1) Google DevTeam does not know, or don' wanna tell, ca we\how to change CPU's speed or\when it would be possible to get the hardware accelariotion etc.
2) From stated 528Mhz we get 384Mhz maximum, as stated by Jean-Baptiste Queru and the code quote.
Both these I suppose seems not fare for us users)
So, can it be solved through the OS modifing??
Oh yeah that's another good point -- almost all of my experience on mobile
hardware has been that the memory bus speed was far more of a performance
bottleneck than the CPU was. It generally just wasn't useful to run the CPU
at its fastest speed and consume more power, because most of what it would
be doing was sitting there waiting on memory.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know what is more important, the memory/cpu ratio working at its best or battery life. We'll have energy plans soon for android me thinks..
interesting... Anyone want to give it a try?
It's very worthwhile to read the entire thread:
http://tinyurl.com/9kme8v
Of particular note, the effect on battery life of clocking the CPU at full speed, and the apparently minimal performance boost.
Of real interest, and the very obvious bang for the buck, is the speed of Dalvik. Note that it's 7-8x slower than comparable JITs. About in line with what you'd expect, but it does imply that if we want to see some serious speed increases - and, I would think, battery life improvements - replacing Dalvik would be the obvious place to start. Or making it JIT, of course.
might be but lets say im at home plugged in or what not... then we could scale our CPU... like BatteryStatus or integrate it into an app somewhat like Locale or Power Manager...
End users look at the End result. my phone is rated at 528mhz and it is running slightly over half its rated operating speed. Battery life? Give me 528mhz and let HTC and Tmobile Recall there $h*tty batterys
The only advantage I can think of for this is for demanding games for instance but any other time its good to have it under clocked to save on battery juice. and the phone is fast enough running at half its rated speed!
Phil
philje123 said:
The only advantage I can think of for this is for demanding games for instance but any other time its good to have it under clocked to save on battery juice. and the phone is fast enough running at half its rated speed!
Phil
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
once you get demanding apps installed such as hello aim. phoneplus dgalerts etc there is constant hiccups and the phone becomes bogged down like i said give me 528mhz and let htc,tmo replace there $h**ty batteries didnt they hear over a year ago there was a huge advancement in nano tech for batteries
diabolical28 said:
once you get demanding apps installed such as hello aim. phoneplus dgalerts etc there is constant hiccups and the phone becomes bogged down like i said give me 528mhz and let htc,tmo replace there $h**ty batteries didnt they hear over a year ago there was a huge advancement in nano tech for batteries
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, but *if* it is the CPU which is bogging down (which I am not convinced is the case), the solution is as I stated - speed up Dalvik - not to put the CPU into a mode which drains the battery down even more quickly than it does today. If the fix is to clock the CPU at a higher rate (which again, seems not to be the case), that's only a stepping stone to the ultimate solution, which is going to be removing some apps, since the battery life is marginal right now anyway.
The reason why Android is underclocked is posted in the full thread. After a certain point, the increase in speed you get by bumping up the CPU slows down, because it's limited by FSB speed. An example of this (not real numbers), is that a CPU running at 50% speed could actually be closer to 75% speed.
Sure, the CPU CAN run at 100% speed, but after the FSB slows it down, it'll only be 75%. So after a point, increasing CPU speed isn't worth it.
hmm
i wonder if we would get an app too monitor it or
under and overclock by adjusting a slider
anywhere from 50% to 150% or whatever is possible
that is anywhere from 264Mhz to 798Mhz which would be amazingly fast
gary, might as well just save your breath.
I believe JF has already tested some code to do this, but mentioned that it is highly unstable.
dirr said:
I believe JF has already tested some code to do this, but mentioned that it is highly unstable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Adjusting the speed breaks things, at least so far anyways. But like he said JF is playing with it.
djind said:
I don't know what is more important, the memory/cpu ratio working at its best or battery life. We'll have energy plans soon for android me thinks..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure, it might not be entirely "worth" it in terms of performance/battery ratio... but that doesn't mean it isn't worth a try. People keep saying "don't bother" but nobody has actually tried an overclocked G1. Maybe it's worth it for demanding gaming or apps while the phone is (gasp) plugged in.
back when i had my wing and so did ttran. Which uses the OMAP processor it was able to overclock over 100mhz faster than it was meant to go. Had real good luck overclocked to 288mhz. Which made the phone run at the speed that it SHOULD have ran at... including faster loading web pages, faster loading everything basically. Which hardly is an issue with the g1, but imagine how much more snappy it would be with an extra 100mhz also? People say its not worth it and it drains the battery more.... umm... if anyone here owns a g1 (surely hope so at least!) you probably know that the battery sucks anyways and needs charging all the time. Would love to see a good OC app made for the g1 =-) (with scaling like battery status was for the wing, which underclocked when screen was off, overclocked when screen was awakened which was amazing for battery life, as the phone doesnt need much power to accept a call, but when the screen is lit.... scaling occurs and it bumps it right up to 288mhz)
I think its well worth a go.
We could start with very small increments.
Gary13579 said:
The reason why Android is underclocked is posted in the full thread. After a certain point, the increase in speed you get by bumping up the CPU slows down, because it's limited by FSB speed. An example of this (not real numbers), is that a CPU running at 50% speed could actually be closer to 75% speed.
Sure, the CPU CAN run at 100% speed, but after the FSB slows it down, it'll only be 75%. So after a point, increasing CPU speed isn't worth it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the question is... Are there any circumstances where this may help...
And either way how difficult is it to add a control under settings to allow you to modify the default method?
You could basically apply the same argument to anything... Until someone tries, we will not know for sure. What next? Don't bother trying to add a swap file cause it may not help? Don't bother trying to speed up Dalvik cause it will take too much memory?
That's the fun of open source...
jdc4429
FSB could really be the bottleneck here. From my experience overclocking mobile CPUs (PXA255, PXA263, PXA270, Samsung 300Mhz, TI OMAP 850) several percentage change on FSB speed or Memory speed could make significant performance changes.
The last WinMob device I had - Dell Axim x51v had a PXA270 [email protected] Pumping the bus from 208Mhz to 230Mhz and the CPU speed from 624 to about 700 did abput 50% improvement in several bencmarks (floating point, integer calculations, memory speed, graphics subsystem).
On the other hand pumping the CPU to 1014Mhz, (0.99GHz, the highest 24/7 stable for my device) while lowering the FSB to 185Mhz (23Mhz drop) led to about 10% lower result than at stock frequencies.
700Mhz CPU, 230Mhz FSB was totally 24/7 under stress tests with almost no extra heat, providing aboyt 50% extra performance, while battery life was about 30-40% shorter.
My experience with it showed that it could be worth for short speed bursts, while running many apps. When you are finished you return to normal frequencies.
Wow! Thanks for the info man!!
Thus we can see, that by increasing the CPU up to it's stock 528 Mhz would be perfect?
it will be perfect when the speed of the cpu uses 528Mhz and auto adjusts: high speed - mid speed - low speed - sleep, "ondemand"
android should use ondemand kernel module which does exactly that. (maybe this cpu cant do that?)
I read a lot about undervolting on here and i think i have an idea about what it does but i may be way off, and im sure each device is different. in pimp my cpu there are multiple options, and while this sounds newbish i think this should be explained to folks in some more detail.
this is what im assuming.
undervolting allows for less power consumption.
UV on higher OC levels controls power spikes to the CPU?
what is a safe level to UV and at what frequencies specific to the G2x
i am reading up on this, to get a better idea. http://www.android.net/forum/android-rooting/58117-droid-x-guide-undervolting-guide.html
Here's my understanding of the whole undervolting thing..
In order to maintain stable operation across devices with varying production quality (not all chips are created equal), manufactures use voltage levels higher than necessary for most devices. They cater to the least common denominator. But most phones will still operate reliably at a lower voltage. By undervolting you can extend your battery life and ward off chip killing heat. This all becomes even more important when overclocking. When you overclock your device you increase the power usages (those extra megahertz aren't without cost). This increases both the drain on your battery and the heat produced by your CPU. Undervolting helps to offset both issues.
As for the proper undervolting levels...that will vary with the tolerance of each individual device. But I'm sure someone can provide some general guidelines...sorry I haven't undervolted the g2x yet and don't want to steer you wrong.
Hope this helped...
Good info. I dropped mine .25 on each higher level. So ill see how it goes
G2x with CM7 and faux kernel
what confuses me on this topic is the "it's different for each device" phrase that I keep reading. Is this in reference to the rom/kernel that is being used or is it specific to apps installed/how the phone is used.. or is it a combo of both?
It's confusing me because its seems that OC/UV is hardware specific and each phone has the same hardware. So I don't quite get this "it's different for each device" thing..
schmit said:
It's confusing me because its seems that OC/UV is hardware specific and each phone has the same hardware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Each phone doesn't have the same hardware....for example, G2X has an nvidia tegra 2 and the nexus s has a hummingbird.
i think you mean this.
cybereclipse said:
Each phone doesn't have the same hardware....for example, G2X has an nvidia tegra 2 and the nexus s has a hummingbird.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes all g2x's have a tegra 2 chip.
But production does not always produce the same tolerances for all the chips.
ussually(with the quality control apparently given to the g2x who knows) but ussually all chips are tested and every chip that is in a g2x will perform reliably at 1ghz as it is specified and sold at.
some of these will run reliably at 1500 or better while some will not go over 1100 without starting to get unreliable.
example is the droid 1 was sold at 550 mhz. they did an update that upped it to 600mhz so they knew all chips were tested to be ok at that threshold. Mine would run at 1200 reliably no overheating(except running flash) no reboots.
with 2 different kernels. there was another kernel that they messed with the voltages so that i would get constant reboots even at 700mhz.
some droids would not run over 700 without experiencing problems.
So yes the tegra 2 chips is the same but the abilities of it can be different. they are guarenteed to run at the speed they are sold at but most will function at a much higher speed without problems while some will not.
oh just thought of a great example. the AMD tri-core processors.
those are quadcores where 1 of the cores did not pass the tests but the other 3 did so instead of scrapping the entire chip they turned off the bad processor and sold it as a tricore. there are motherboards out there that allow this core to be turned back on and many have done this and it works just fine. its just that core didnt pass whatever minimum they set on it even though it was perfectally functional they determined that if it got to this temp or didnt run at this speed(over what it was sold at) it didnt pass.
So while this kernel at this voltage may run fine on your phone it may caused reboots or lock ups on others.
hope this makes some sense.
eagle1967 said:
yes all g2x's have a tegra 2 chip.
But production does not always produce the same tolerances for all the chips.
ussually(with the quality control apparently given to the g2x who knows) but ussually all chips are tested and every chip that is in a g2x will perform reliably at 1ghz as it is specified and sold at.
some of these will run reliably at 1500 or better while some will not go over 1100 without starting to get unreliable.
example is the droid 1 was sold at 550 mhz. they did an update that upped it to 600mhz so they knew all chips were tested to be ok at that threshold. Mine would run at 1200 reliably no overheating(except running flash) no reboots.
with 2 different kernels. there was another kernel that they messed with the voltages so that i would get constant reboots even at 700mhz.
some droids would not run over 700 without experiencing problems.
So yes the tegra 2 chips is the same but the abilities of it can be different. they are guarenteed to run at the speed they are sold at but most will function at a much higher speed without problems while some will not.
oh just thought of a great example. the AMD tri-core processors.
those are quadcores where 1 of the cores did not pass the tests but the other 3 did so instead of scrapping the entire chip they turned off the bad processor and sold it as a tricore. there are motherboards out there that allow this core to be turned back on and many have done this and it works just fine. its just that core didnt pass whatever minimum they set on it even though it was perfectally functional they determined that if it got to this temp or didnt run at this speed(over what it was sold at) it didnt pass.
So while this kernel at this voltage may run fine on your phone it may caused reboots or lock ups on others.
hope this makes some sense.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice...that was much better than my explanation.
cybereclipse said:
Each phone doesn't have the same hardware....for example, G2X has an nvidia tegra 2 and the nexus s has a hummingbird.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol. dude, I'm in the g2x forum.. not the "whatever phone ya wanna talk about" forum. I was referring to the g2x's having the same hardware, lol.
Thanks to the other guy for the awesome explanation
In the power options, under processor power management, the maximum processor state on battery seems to always revert back to 100% after a reboot or changing power plans. Any ideas why the setting won't stick?
I noticed this as well
..very annoying
is that the only setting you noticed reverting? or are there more?
I assumed win8 handles processes differently requiring less battery consumption.
Sent from my EVO using xda premium
but that isn't the issue
if u go into settings and change the 100% to anything else
it always reverts back .....very annoying ....marked difference in battery life noticed
If you create a new power plan and use it, the settings will stay after a reboot. This is what I did.
Did anyone try 20% CPU so far ? And if so, how is the battery life?
I won't mind getting Surface Pro if I can throttle down its CPU when on battery to Surface RT's speed for a longer battery.
I currently have a RT version with me
Power consumption curve for CPUs is very non-linear. 90% from 100% will probably save you more power than 20% from 90% will. You'd just be wasting a ton of processing capability.
GoodDayToDie said:
Power consumption curve for CPUs is very non-linear. 90% from 100% will probably save you more power than 20% from 90% will. You'd just be wasting a ton of processing capability.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not only that but the windows throttle percentage is not really as specific as a 0-100 range would suggest, so even if you set 20% it might limit the cpu to its minimum frequency.
If you use a tool such as this you can see what the current frequency is: http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/tmonitor.html
With my laptops (much slower) Core2Duo the minimum frequency was too slow, but about 50% of the max worked well and dramatically reduced the heat under load.
Some people reckon it is better to allow the cpu to use its full frequency so that it finishes the job faster and can move back to the lowest idle state. I am not sure that really applies to i5 (which doesn't support the ARM-style idle states that haswell will) and like you say the power consumption at lower cpu frequencies doesn't vary much. My experience with windows is that sometimes for no apparent reason at all programs such as word or chrome sit using 50+% of the cpu and you have to restart the process. It doesn't happen often at all but you might not realise until your battery is low. With the pro's i5 I expect you could get away with quite a low cpu frequency and would at least know you will always get roughly the same battery life.
This is the same problem that w700 has, an even earlier product. This situation made the biggest thread in the acer community because people are angry, some even took back their products and traded for the surface which made it the same than people realized it was not the w700 itself. Throttle stop didnt work because it seems to be more temp related.
Here are some interesting topics
http://community.acer.com/t5/Acer-T...rottling-Turbo-Boost-issues/td-p/6873/page/28
http://forum.tabletpcreview.com/acer-gateway/54122-w700-throttling.html
Walderstorn said:
This is the same problem that w700 has, an even earlier product. This situation made the biggest thread in the acer community because people are angry, some even took back their products and traded for the surface which made it the same than people realized it was not the w700 itself. Throttle stop didnt work because it seems to be more temp related.
Here are some interesting topics
http://community.acer.com/t5/Acer-T...rottling-Turbo-Boost-issues/td-p/6873/page/28
http://forum.tabletpcreview.com/acer-gateway/54122-w700-throttling.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, it is nothing like that problem. The OP is talking about manually limiting the max clock of the device using the Windows setting that has been there for a while now.
Hi,
Curretnly i'm on the G3 and i dont like it much.
Thinking on 1 of these:
Xiaomi Mi4C
Asus Zenphone 2
Now, I asking that in Mi 4C Thread bc's i thinking that there is some people that might had this.
What do you think?
Thanks!
It comes down to preference really as I dont really like phones bigger than 5" and xiaomi is quite established. Its got the right size, ir blaster and a good SOC which should get good rom support, cm12.1 already available
Where are you based? The Global version of the Zenphone 2 has band 20 which the Mi 4c doesn't have (may be able to be unlocked manually but I'm doubtful). The Zenphone also has expandable storage which the Mi 4c lacks - you may already be used to this and the larger form factor due to currently using the G3. That said, I've heard (but cannot personally verify) that the Zenphone has erratic battery life and performance in addition to being more expensive than the Mi 4c.
ermacwins & wingsfortheirsmiles,
I got used to 5.5" so this is not an issue at all...
I from Israel and LTE bands are 1800 & 2600.
So from my understanding, both of them would work, right?
32gb are more than I need, so the expandable storage is not too important.
If the Zenphone do has erratic battery life and performance, it's a good reason to go for the Mi4C, isn't?
Anyone else suffered or heard on it?
Thanks very much!
shabydog said:
ermacwins & wingsfortheirsmiles,
I got used to 5.5" so this is not an issue at all...
I from Israel and LTE bands are 1800 & 2600.
So from my understanding, both of them would work, right?
32gb are more than I need, so the expandable storage is not too important.
If the Zenphone do has erratic battery life and performance, it's a good reason to go for the Mi4C, isn't?
Anyone else suffered or heard on it?
Thanks very much!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, my Mi4C had battery drain. Around 3%/hour on idle with WiFi and 4G all off, so when I woke up a third of my battery was already gone. I ended up fixing it by flashing the international ROM but after that, I've been getting 5 hours of SoT which is great. Can't comment on the battery of the Zenfone.
Regarding the battery problem:
Looks like it could different between your's to anyone else.
I read a review in a site in my country and the person who made the review praise the battery life.
Thanks!
My Mi4c has very good battery life. The same like the z1 compact i had. Other phones i had i charged sometimes more than 2 times a day.
The zenfone 2 has worse battery life, build quality and performance. If you don't mind the SD card and 5" screen then the Mi4C is your phone. Zenfone 3 could be very interesting when (should be kinda soonTM) it gets released though!
Thank you all!
Go for the Mi4C.
P.S: A newer model of Mi series also coming soon?
How abt Redmi note 3?
No battery issue with my Mi4C. Left it idle for most part of the day with cellular and Wi-Fi connected the whole time and managed 0.7% / hour idle time. I also have many apps installed (not facebook or any messaging apps though). It's rooted and greenified, running original stable Chinese Miui 7 Rom with some Chinese bloat apps removed. It's also scoring 52K on antutu 6.
Sent using xda premium
Processing power wise, ZenFone 2 (the high end 32 GB internal memory with 4 GB RAM model) is comparable to Mi4C, the GPU is even slightly better. However, when it comes to video recording, ZenFone is waaaaay below Mi4C. The still image, if you use latest firmware, is already fixed though. Note that due to the use of Intel processor, some apps that use native libraries might not be installable. Ensure your apps are architecture-neutral or have both arm and intel version available.
OTOH, Mi4C has thermal issues and I still can't find the best thermal configuration so far. This causes the cores, both CPU and GPU, get shutted down or their upper limit is decreased to lower down the temperature. I break this limit by changing the limit a little bit higher, but if you play games while charging the phone, my best record reaches 90° C. Hot enough for a sleep killer tea
Happy deciding!
Having owned both phones i can say the Zen2 is a dud. The screen is dim, the speaker is weak, some apps drain crazy battery as they are using an ARM emulator to run on x86. It wobbles on the desk and the battery dies after your lunch break. The camera has low exposure that makes everything look darker than it is. The Mi4c just works like you expect a flagship to do.
leledumbo said:
Processing power wise, ZenFone 2 (the high end 32 GB internal memory with 4 GB RAM model) is comparable to Mi4C, the GPU is even slightly better. However, when it comes to video recording, ZenFone is waaaaay below Mi4C. The still image, if you use latest firmware, is already fixed though. Note that due to the use of Intel processor, some apps that use native libraries might not be installable. Ensure your apps are architecture-neutral or have both arm and intel version available.
OTOH, Mi4C has thermal issues and I still can't find the best thermal configuration so far. This causes the cores, both CPU and GPU, get shutted down or their upper limit is decreased to lower down the temperature. I break this limit by changing the limit a little bit higher, but if you play games while charging the phone, my best record reaches 90° C. Hot enough for a sleep killer tea
Happy deciding!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont believe in 90° C unless your phone is borked and termal throttling doesnt work, also phone would shut down anyway with that temperature.
k3lcior said:
I dont believe in 90° C unless your phone is borked and termal throttling doesnt work, also phone would shut down anyway with that temperature.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is, well the screenshot I have is 87 actually in one of the many thermal zone (they're all varying from 60 or so) but during that time I did see and feel 90 (as a hot tea drinker, I know how hot is 90). Thankfully I have a flip cover that absorbs the heat, but if you touch the scree, it's really damn hot. Thermal throttling doesn't work on my device, because I've disabled the thermal driver :cyclops:
I don't really know the actual upper limit, but I guess it should be around 100-120. My PC was 120, but I don't think smartphone's SoC will differ much.
leledumbo said:
It is, well the screenshot I have is 87 actually in one of the many thermal zone (they're all varying from 60 or so) but during that time I did see and feel 90 (as a hot tea drinker, I know how hot is 90). Thankfully I have a flip cover that absorbs the heat, but if you touch the scree, it's really damn hot. Thermal throttling doesn't work on my device, because I've disabled the thermal driver :cyclops:
I don't really know the actual upper limit, but I guess it should be around 100-120. My PC was 120, but I don't think smartphone's SoC will differ much.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
RIP phone.
k3lcior said:
RIP phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hahaha, worry not, it's been back to normal temp (30-50). The problem only happens if you play resource intensive games while charging.
My last phone Mi4i also reached ~90°C after playing with the thermal engine. The flashlight turned on in the pocket of my pants and burned for half an hour. I just noticed it because my leg got hotter and hotter luckily the phone wasnt damaged through this. Also, i think the CPU can handle these temperatures without being damaged, but i would worry about other phone components such as SD Card, battery or glued components
Sorry, my antutu 6 score for my Mi4c was 685xx, not 52k.
Sent from my Mi-4c using xda premium
mmmh i think xiaomi mi4c only for battery
I was wondering about... Is it true if x64_x86 build (arm64) uses more RAM than just x86 (arm)? Considering this phone can't take any advantages of 64 bit OS (cmiiw), I just wonder whether it's possible to build the x86 ROM version of any available custom ROM out there?
I know only a little about theoretical of why it wouldn't be easy task / wouldn't possible perhaps due to its kernel only available in x64_x86 build... or it needs a lots of codes rework (since C++ x64 has additional instruction/data types which not available in x86), or its blobs only available in x64_x86... So, anyone has more convincing arguments about this task?
Hi x3r0.13urn
Just to clarify things: our Mi4c/s is built with a arm 64 SoC (system on a chip), and x86 means a different processor architecture (like computer cpu's) so there are 4 (common) cpu architectures:
"Normal" CPU: x86 (32 bit) and x64 (64bit)
"Mobile" CPU: Arm (32bit) and Arm64 (64bit)
So your question is, if it would have any benefits building an arm (32 bit) kernel/rom/Firmware for our arm64 Mi4c/s.
As the CPU itself is made for Arm64 i think there are lots of optimizations (things I, the noob, doesnt understand) in the Kernel/Firmware/Rom so it would be useless to go back to the old arm 32 bit environment (DEV's correct me if i'm wrong).
An idea of mine: Why not build an ARM64 Rom with small textures and low resolution? The screen would look **** but i think there would be many battery savings and more performance to use for other things..
Greetings
Wertus
I don't see why you need better performance, Mi4c is an already powerful device.
Regarding OP, there is no 32bit kernel developed for any msm8992 phone, as Qualcomm made it a 64bit chip and optimized the kernel for 64bit usage. So no, we can't compile a 32bit kernel for msm8992, and even if we did, it would be bad.
Regarding the smaller textures, a lot of Android is now vector graphics, and you can't make them smaller, and having smaller textures than we need would be useless as they would have to be upscaled to display them. The phone might even consume more power to upscale them.
I see... So, if it's true, the problem there's no x86 kernel source thus afflicts other aspects. It's quite shame... since even up till today, 32-bit only OSes (Windows, *nix) are still available.
I agree on, yes SD 808 packs a punch to withstand today's need. Regarding about textures, I take it we're talking about resolution downscaling (from 1080p to 720p?), would save few MiB of RAM usage, and it will also lower CPU usage, though in my personal experiences, it won't prolong battery life very much.
x3r0.13urn said:
I see... So, if it's true, the problem there's no x86 kernel source thus afflicts other aspects. It's quite shame... since even up till today, 32-bit only OSes (Windows, *nix) are still available.
I agree on, yes SD 808 packs a punch to withstand today's need. Regarding about textures, I take it we're talking about resolution downscaling (from 1080p to 720p?), would save few MiB of RAM usage, and it will also lower CPU usage, though in my personal experiences, it won't prolong battery life very much.
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Windows and Linux distros must run on a lot of machines, and be compatible with all.
The Linux kernel found in a Android device is much different, as it targets one specific chipset, which in this case 64bit. Also, 64bit is overall much better than 32bit, the only drawbacks being RAM usage(but the differences are really small!).
No, I was talking with the other guy which mentioned using lower textures.
About lowering resolution, it can actually get worse. In games where FPS isn't locked CPU can become a bottleneck, because GPU has less work to do and therefore it can finish it faster, then it requests more data from the CPU, and so on, until the CPU can't keep up.
Overall you can't really improve this device much on the speed side of things, and ROM developers try to improve battery life already. The problem is that users use their devices in various ways and you can't make everyone happy.
So yeah, we do our best to optimise stuff and if it hasn't been done then it can't be done or it doesn't improve anything.
Cozzmy13 said:
No, I was talking with the other guy which mentioned using lower textures.
Overall you can't really improve this device much on the speed side of things, and ROM developers try to improve battery life already. The problem is that users use their devices in various ways and you can't make everyone happy.
So yeah, we do our best to optimise stuff and if it hasn't been done then it can't be done or it doesn't improve anything.
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I meant to reduce the resolution (sry, explained it wrong with textures).
Well, i guess a lot of people want to use the Hardware they have (why 720p if u can use 1080p "to show ur friends"?)
I just wonder if one could compile- lets say- an HTC desire HD rom, which works fluently at 700mhz with a single core cpu (and even an old one). So you could adjust the governor settings of the mi4c (with a better optimized cpu, gpu, bigger battery...) and get an incredible battery.
I understand that this is not wanted from most of the users because u have an old system, missing many functions and u cant use your new device to the full excess because of the software.
But to use this rom when i dont have the chance to charge my mobile for 3-5days (with multirom) would be great (if that works how i imagine it).
Edit: And yes, the mi4c is very nice for performance, just the bat could be better
With regards to the battery: unfortunately for the short term, the solution is to buy an external battery (i.e. power bank), or do "extreme" things like switching on aeroplane mode, dim screen, powersave governor, etc.
In the medium term, there are things developers can do. However this work is very detailed and requires lots of testing. There's plenty of tweaks one can make with the CPU core load balancing, voltages, frequencies etc. It's difficult because there are so many knobs to twiddle, and so many ways to make things worse.
terence.tan said:
With regards to the battery: unfortunately for the short term, the solution is to buy an external battery (i.e. power bank), or do "extreme" things like switching on aeroplane mode, dim screen, powersave governor, etc.
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Well, with all connections shut down (except for mobile network, without mobile data) it holds about 2 days (i'm still taking pictures and phoning), which's not bad. i also use my own governor values (gave me the most).
But where to charge the power bank (they are empty fast on festivals..)? xD
Thx for your explanation/help, but i think i'll just end up attaching a stronger battery to my one x (which holds around 1.5-2 days with same usage).
Do you know if i need to adjust any kernel parameters for a new bat (i dont think so)?
wertus33333 said:
Well, with all connections shut down (except for mobile network, without mobile data) it holds about 2 days (i'm still taking pictures and phoning), which's not bad. i also use my own governor values (gave me the most).
But where to charge the power bank (they are empty fast on festivals..)? xD
Thx for your explanation/help, but i think i'll just end up attaching a stronger battery to my one x (which holds around 1.5-2 days with same usage).
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Yeah. I'm not sure that there's a lot more you can do, without a developer actually running a profile on your phone to see what's drawing power.
Along the same lines, performance is important. We have a concept called "race to sleep", which means that the phone runs faster for a shorter time, then can go to idle. This saves power.
One strategy is to use hardware acceleration where possible. For example, using crypto hardware instead of in software. This is one example of a medium-term project that requires lots of testing, because if you get crypto wrong, you can lose your data...
wertus33333 said:
Do you know if i need to adjust any kernel parameters for a new bat (i dont think so)?
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I'd just try it and see if it auto-detects.
Re: aeroplane mode and power saving. Here's the quote I was looking for:
During its research for Project Volta, Google took a Nexus 5 and put it in airplane mode and measured how long it took to die with the screen off. In normal use, the device struggles to last a full day, but while idling like this, it lasted a full month. The takeaway was that if you can just get the phone to stop doing stuff, your battery life will greatly increase. After this research, it's no surprise to see Google focusing on deeper sleep modes.
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Source: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...permission-controls-fingerprint-api-and-more/
This is what I mean by, with a persistent developer who looks for all the details, you can get results like above...
terence.tan said:
Re: aeroplane mode and power saving. Here's the quote I was looking for:
Source: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...permission-controls-fingerprint-api-and-more/
This is what I mean by, with a persistent developer who looks for all the details, you can get results like above...
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My op2 holds around 3 weeks if i only use it as an alarm in the morning (with some minor tweaks, without gapps).
What really made me think is that the op2 with its 5.5" screen and a 3300mah bat gets around 10h SoT (lowest brightness, just idling) and the mi4s with its 3260mah and 5" screen only about 4h SoT (lowest brightness, idling).
Its not that hard to get results like in your link if you adjust the gov to just keep cpu load on the lowest possible. I also got 2 weeks with an SGS plus just idling around, but when i use it to browse the web its empty in 30mins xD.