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Hey guys, I've been looking up on the surface and it's perfect for me. I've never liked tablets because of the keyboard issue so this is great for me.
as I've never had a tablet or anything like this before so my question may be stupid but can I download programs and use them or is it just like apps and stuff? I mean if it was a normal computer but just so thin and compact it would be great and i think that's why I'm mistaking this to be.
I thought as it's a windows 8 tablet that programs on PC that were coded for windows 8 PC would work on the surface?

UrbanDesigns said:
Hey guys, I've been looking up on the surface and it's perfect for me. I've never liked tablets because of the keyboard issue so this is great for me.
as I've never had a tablet or anything like this before so my question may be stupid but can I download programs and use them or is it just like apps and stuff? I mean if it was a normal computer but just so thin and compact it would be great and i think that's why I'm mistaking this to be.
I thought as it's a windows 8 tablet that programs on PC that were coded for windows 8 PC would work on the surface?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are right and wrong.
surface by microsoft is of two types.
-surface rt
-surface pro.
surface rt is powered by nvidia arm tegra 3 processor. this will allow it to ONLY run windows app created for ARM processor. so with this you will only be able to use apps downloaded from windows store(previously known as metro apps). this tab will be lighter, cheaper and is already available on microsoft stores.
surface pro on the other hand is powere by intel sandy bridge processors built on x86 architecture. this means it has the same architecture as old windows machines and will run older programmes made for windows 7, vista etc. also it will be able to run apps downloaded from windows store(metro apps). this tab will be bulkier, and more expensive and is expected to be available by the end of the year.
from your post i think you should stick with the surface pro. hope i ans ur question.

spaco22 provided great answers, but I think the real question is - what stuff (apps/programs) do you want to download and use?
The Surface RT comes with Office, media player, etc. It works with Netflix, Hulu, Amazon video, and has an "app store".
If you want to install and run "any" Windows program, I agree with spaco22, you'll want the Pro, or, IMO, spend another hundred or two and get an Ultrabook or convertible. You'll have a better overall "full Windows" experience than on the Surface Pro.

mk1151 said:
spaco22 provided great answers, but I think the real question is - what stuff (apps/programs) do you want to download and use?
The Surface RT comes with Office, media player, etc. It works with Netflix, Hulu, Amazon video, and has an "app store".
If you want to install and run "any" Windows program, I agree with spaco22, you'll want the Pro, or, IMO, spend another hundred or two and get an Ultrabook or convertible. You'll have a better overall "full Windows" experience than on the Surface Pro.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just everyday programs that I use on my computer, I like the idea of the Surface cause of how thin it is but if the pro version is bulkier then I don't think I'd bother.
Thanks for answering guys!

UrbanDesigns said:
Just everyday programs that I use on my computer, I like the idea of the Surface cause of how thin it is but if the pro version is bulkier then I don't think I'd bother.
Thanks for answering guys!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its worth a note that surface pro isn't the only x86 windows 8 tablet. If you want skinny then you could look up atom basses tablets as they can be just as slim though you will lose power so don't expect call of duty, though the new amd chips had it running at 30fps but then your thicker again. Also note that almost all keyboards can work even with Rt let alonr pro. I have a surface but i don't use the touchpad as its a bit restrictive ie you need a flat surface, so i use a mac Bluetooth keyboard and it works a great and is almost as slim and 100x more practical est with the kickstand.

mk1151 said:
spaco22 provided great answers, but I think the real question is - what stuff (apps/programs) do you want to download and use?
The Surface RT comes with Office, media player, etc. It works with Netflix, Hulu, Amazon video, and has an "app store".
If you want to install and run "any" Windows program, I agree with spaco22, you'll want the Pro, or, IMO, spend another hundred or two and get an Ultrabook or convertible. You'll have a better overall "full Windows" experience than on the Surface Pro.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah but the pro is going to be over $1000 depending on what model and you are saying spending a few hundred more for an ultrabook. The point being is the surface rt and ipads are limited but for most users will be fine for daily computing. Yes they don't run legacy apps but looking forward , future software will be designed for that platform if Win8 has a strong install base and legacy apps will not really be needed / wanted in many cases.

the atom based tablet looks good, plus it has 4G LTE which is a bonus
im not looking to play call of duty on it but i just want something that's powerful and run normal programs. there's not apps for everything I need to do.

Thanks for the heads up on RT vs PRO. Might have to reconsider buying the RT and going straight to Pro

Considering a Surface RT

Hi Surface Owners!
I am still debating which tablet to get and have recently included the Surface in the list. Of the current crop of tablets available, it's between the Nexus 10 and Surface RT. I'm not sure what will be announced at MWC, but i'll keep an eye out obviously.
I wanted to get your advice, as most of the people reading will own a surface. How do you find it now a few months on from release?
I will be selling my Macbook, so my new tablet is going to be my go to for the time being. I will be going travelling for several months, so this will be it's main use. I am wanting something that I can connect either my camera or SD card to so I can download photo's on to the device but also from the device to an external HDD. Obviously using it for entertainment will be a big thing, as well as to plan out parts of our journey and using the internet. I wouldn't mind if I could do some very minor photo editing also. Can anyone let me know what the photo app is like on the device, also if there are any decent photo apps on the marketplace.
So the surface looks like a winner in terms of the USB and SD card slots, making it easier to connect whilst travelling. But the Nexus wins on the screen and probably power. I used Android already on my phone so am used to it, but I quite like the interface on Windows 8 as it's something new. Android and IOS get a bit boring after a long time...
Any advice would be greatly appreciated. If anyone owns both tablets it would be great to hear your thoughts also.
Cheers,
Mike

Surface RT is my current ultra-portable computer, and it works well for that so long as it's not all that I have for an extended time. I miss the stylus that my old tablet had (an advantage of the Surface Pro) but do not find that, for example, the kickstand of the RT makes it hard to use on my lap (the way some reviewers have claimed). I have the Touch Cover (and am in fact writing this on it); it works great and you can type quite quickly and with perfect touch-typing muscle memory after a short time of using it.
Prior to the Surface RT, my most portable computer was an old Core 2 Duo ULV (1.2GHz) HP tablet, with a stylus but no touchscreen, 12" screen with 1280x800 resolution, 5 hours battery life (when new), 4GB of RAM (came with 1GB, upgraded immediately), an 80gb 4200RPM 1.8" magnetic hard disk, and 3.5lb weight. I loved it. Still use it, actually; it runs Win8 quite well aside from not being able to use Metro snapping. However, in almost every way possible, the Surface Pro blows it away. For less than the cost of old HP tablet (which was about $1500 new), I can upgrade the C2D to a quad-core chip with over twice the speed per core, I can upgrade the digitizer and add multitouch, I can trade in the 12" screen for one with far higher DPI, I can massively improve the storage by going solid-state instead of rotational (and can get 128GB), and I can keep the 5 hour battery life. The things I would lose are the ability to upgrade the RAM (4GB is a bit low, IMO) and storage (not that I ever did upgrade the old 1.8" drive) and the replaceable battery (I'll live). Oh, and swapping full SD for MicroSD and 2 USB 2.0 ports for a single USB 3.0 port, which means I'll probably want to get a hub. Still, it's tempting, and I may well buy myself one even though right now I don't really need it.

I have a Surface RT and use it as my portable device when I don't want to lug around my ultrabook. For some context, I have an iPad and an ASUS Transformer TF-101 as well. Prior to the Surface RT, I used the Transformer for that. But the lack of things that were important to me made the RT the go-to device when it came out.
For me, things like the USB port, MicroSD card, and Microsoft Office were important. Even more important was the built-in support for Bitlocker, so my MicroSD card can be encrypted at all times and easily read by my other Windows 8 machines. And my other external USB hard drives that are also encrypted can be easily opened by the Surface RT. Native VPN client and RDP helps with work as well (I know there are ways to do this with the other tablets).
I have the apps that I need at this point. I'm not a big social media person, so I can't speak to the apps for those things. But there are enough apps of interest to me that keep me satisfied. Can't speak to the photo apps, however. I don't take photos with it, though I have taken video and those were good.
Overall, I'm very happy with the RT. I got it with the Touch Cover and I can actually type fairly well on it. (I've actually had questions from iPad owners asking about the keyboard, if it was available for their devices.)
I had considered waiting for the Surface Pro, but the extra size and weight, plus the shorter battery life (I get great battery life with the RT, BTW), were concerns for me. I could just as well take my ultrabook (had an Asus Zenbook, now a Sony VAIO T13), which is quite a bit faster than the Surface Pro.
For what it's worth.

You can browse the store from any web browser:
http://www.windowsphone.com/en-us/store
For your use cases:
> I am wanting something that I can connect either my camera or SD card to so I can download photo's on to the device but also from the device to an external HDD.
You will be able to do that so long as your camera doesn't need extra drivers to show up (as a USB store) or you use a USB reader for the removable media.
> Obviously using it for entertainment will be a big thing, as well as to plan out parts of our journey and using the internet.
Great web browser. Can play most video, Audio...
> I wouldn't mind if I could do some very minor photo editing also.
Check the store...
> Can anyone let me know what the photo app is like on the device, also if there are any decent photo apps on the marketplace.
The built in photo app is pretty basic.
I would expect you could get by with the surface rt - get the 64gb one, and get a 64gb card...
I took one on a week cruise (along with a netbook for backup) and was able to use just the surface for the whole trip, including dumping GoPro video and digital camera shots to the surface and then onto an external USB disk.

Thanks for the advice guys, much appreciated.
Just a quick note, I meant gallery app, to look and browse / organise your photos, not the camera app to take photos. I laugh when I see people taking photos with there tablet ha ha. I like the way the ipad shows your photos by map, gallery and a journal function for example.
Sent from my HTC Sensation using xda app-developers app

Mikeparakh said:
Thanks for the advice guys, much appreciated.
Just a quick note, I meant gallery app, to look and browse / organise your photos, not the camera app to take photos. I laugh when I see people taking photos with there tablet ha ha. I like the way the ipad shows your photos by map, gallery and a journal function for example.
Sent from my HTC Sensation using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Photo album app that comes with the RT is very basic. You may want to check out apps in the store that have more functionality.

Mikeparakh said:
look and browse
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep
/ organise your photos
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope.
Really basic. Grid of photos, or slideshow/swipe browse full screen. That's what you get.

What you are saying about getting bored with the other operating systems is exactly why I made Surface my choice. I've been playing with android for the last 7 years. And thanks to all the devs here at xda I was able to make all of my devices do exactly what I wanted.. But it was time for something totally different. I made the right decision. To be honest, at the beginning, learning the new ui was frustrating! :crying: Because I was having trouble finding things and when I did it didn't seem be consistent through the ui.... After about 3 days it all started to come together very well... you'll find that the system is actually set up quite well. I found everything I needed in the store. I'm very pleased with the purchase.

So any 2.5" hard drive will work with the Surface RT? Wow, I'm a bit surprised here. I thought there might not be enough power to power up a hard drive. Is the USB port capable of supporting a USB hub? My plan is to connect at least a 2-port USB hub, and transfer photos from my camera to the portable hard drive. If the Surface RT can do that, then I may not need to consider the Surface Pro even though it have USB 3.0.
---------- Post added at 01:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:47 AM ----------
Mikeparakh said:
Thanks for the advice guys, much appreciated.
Just a quick note, I meant gallery app, to look and browse / organise your photos, not the camera app to take photos. I laugh when I see people taking photos with there tablet ha ha. I like the way the ipad shows your photos by map, gallery and a journal function for example.
Sent from my HTC Sensation using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you and that's what I love about the iOS photo app. Does anyone here know of a photo app for Windows RT that can show my photos base on its location data?

So, all in all, are people happy with the device? What are the major issues to be concerned with, if any?

No major issues.
For the same price in Canada, the Asus ME400 offers Windows 8 x86 so I went with that due to needing Java/Cisco for remote connectivity to work. I did not regret owning surface. There was nothing majorly wrong with it, I loved the full USB port (which the Asus does not have). Surface RT use s a proprietary charger vs the Asus which uses micro-usb charger. Surface charges faster.
If the app you want is not in the app store, or you need drivers for your devices, that could be a problem. Note that Surface RT does not offer a full size SD card slot, only a micro. You can't put your camera card directly into Surface unless you are using microsd.
Build quality is top notch, the kickstand is great, battery life is very good, and Windows RT is pretty slick.

USB hubs work, but unless you use a powered hub (and power it from the wall or another source), you're still going to be limited by the relatively meager power of the Surface RT's single USB port. It's enough for a 2.5" disk of at least 5400 RPM (haven't tried 7200 RPM yet) but funning (for example) a mouse and a hard drive off of it might be too much.

It's sounding pretty positive so far! I keep reading reviews though and none seem to be great! But I think most of the companies doing the reviews are stuck half way up Apple's ass.
I keeping an eye on a few auctions ending on Ebay tonight, to see if I can pick up a bargain, fingers crossed! If not, I will probably purchase one from John Lewis over the next two weeks.
I've read a few sites that think Microsoft will drop the price on the RT soon, do you think this will happen? All speculation I guess, no one really knows..
The other thing is, they don't seem to hold there value well. Where as the Nexus 10, you could almost make money on if you decided to sell due to it being hard to get.

Mikeparakh said:
It's sounding pretty positive so far! I keep reading reviews though and none seem to be great!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They expected an iPad with a windows logo. They got a Windows tablet instead. Coupled with the need to dogpile on the new UI, and as you said the large number of Apple Experts With Very Short Memories, and the review effect isn't shocking.

I have a Surface RT and I love it! I use it for nearly everything. I use remote desktop or team viewer for anything that requires x86 apps.
Its brilliant to use around the house! my wife has her Nexus 7 and has to switch between that and her laptop every so often while I just use the Surface.
When my laptop dies which wont be long (though it could be longer as I don't use it now) then I plan on getting a Surface Pro. The build quality of it (Surface RT) is outstanding. I had an issue with the touch cover, contacted Surface support and they were amazing, got a new touch cover no questions asked and in quick time, reported the issue at around 1400 and got the new one at around 1300 the following day! I cant recommend it enough. Everyone I show it is impressed with near enough everything it can do, the only downside is that not all the apps I used to use on Android are available, but Android is coming up to its 5th Birthday in October and that will be 1 year of Win RT.
25'879 are in the Windows Store as of writing and if, this is a big if, Microsoft can some how link the WP store and the WinRT store then it has massive potential.
I only wish that Microsoft really pushed hard on getting these into people hands. In the UK John Lewis is a very repeatable store but that is the only brick and mortar place you can get one. In nearly every store I go these day there is a gadget area selling iPads and Androids, come on Microsoft lets have you back at the top of the tech tree, where you were when you bailed out Apple!

So I've gone ahead an purchased. I managed to get a bargain! £425 for a brand new Surface RT 64GB with black touch cover! Hopefully will arrive tomorrow, fingers crossed. Really want a blue touch cover, so might sell the black and get a blue.
Anything I should know before I first switch on and setup?

After some more usage with the RT, I'm quite liking it. There's definitely lag, especially on games. "Rat On A Snowboard" even lags and there's nothing even going on with that! Something isn't right and a Tegra3 should be able to at least handle ROAS.
Otherwise, "Mobile.HD" works brilliantly so that's a major plus. I've got the UK Netflix showing on my Metro UI, and then I can access the US Netflix using the browser so very pleased with that. "Pow!" seems decent for comics. "Tome" for Goodreads.
But the games really are a letdown. Hardly any decent games and what ones are there run very poorly. I realise it's not an iPad and that'd be more suited for games etc but the Tegra3 works great on the Nexus 7 and it's just not working right in the RT. Whether that's due to the Nexus 7 using all of the Tegra3 cores and the RT not using them all, or whether it's poor coding, or a problem with RT itself, I haven't got a clue. But it's not as fluid as it could/should be.

Surface RT
Again in context I have laptop Dell Duo Flip screen. Nexus 7, Playbook 64gb ( I like gadgets). I was considering a Surface RT or Surface Pro.
But I ended up with a RM Slate 100 (EXOPC) 2gb Memory, 32gb mini pe ssd card (also spare slot for second ssd card or gps unit, 2 usb ports full size, HDMI out, SD Card slot (I added 32gb 45mb sec) 11.6 inch screen I upgraded to Windows 8 Pro. in all it cost me £180 pounds.
it was a gamble but the result is a very capable Surface Pro look alike. Any wireless keyboard will work when needed. Linked to my Nexus with a mouse and keyboard simulator it works great through plasma TV via HDMI. Skydrive adds another 48gb storage, dropbox for moving files around.
Added bonus Android for X86 works as well from SD Card .
Boot time 20 sec with Office 2010 loaded. Program start times ready to go Word 3 sec, Excel 1.8 sec, Outlook 4.5 sec, Paintshop Pro X5 31 sec.
Any one else put together a surface pro look alike.
How does a Surface compare.

I have the Asus VIVO Tab RT which uses same OS. I love it as an ultra portable tablet/laptop but one thing I really hate is the browser. I just hate IE10 on Windows 8/Windows RT and wish Chrome or Firefox would release a browser for RT.

I just received my Surface RT 64GB with a black touch cover. First impressions are fantastic! I love the look and feel of the device. Just from setting it up, i'm amazed at just how responsive the touch cover is! I think I'll get used to it very quickly. Doing the updates now so haven't played much, but very happy thus far! Still would like a blue touch cover though!

how are people playing call of duty ect?

I notice videos of people playing call of duty ect with a surface, how do they do that?

There are 2 surface models, the RT and the Pro.
The RT may "only" be an ARM device and incapable of running existing windows software but the pro is just a normal windows laptop bundled into a tablet chassis.
The pro runs normal Windows software and that includes call of duty (which is on steam if you didn't know there was a windows version). Pro is also thicker, heavier, more expensive, has fans adding a tiny bit of noise, isn't all that powerful for gaming (1.7ghz dual core and integrated graphics are a big no no) and has a poorer battery life (reported from 3-7 hours dependant on usage). But it is just a normal windows computer so any game or software you already own will install on it, that's its primary advantage over the RT.

Ah ok, I think I have a RT version.
Yep I know of steam, I have over 400 games on it.
I'm finding it hard to find games for my surface.

aussiesausage said:
Ah ok, I think I have a RT version.
Yep I know of steam, I have over 400 games on it.
I'm finding it hard to find games for my surface.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Search microsoft in the store, their games also have the green xbox logo/bar.
There are loads of decent tablet style games made by msoft

Oh yea cool found some, thanks.

aussiesausage said:
Ah ok, I think I have a RT version.
Yep I know of steam, I have over 400 games on it.
I'm finding it hard to find games for my surface.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I already presumed you knew what steam was, I was more saying thats where you get Call of duty for PC
If you look in the windows RT development and hacking section there is a jailbreak for RT devices. The jailbreak allows you to run unsigned code on the windows desktop, because RT uses an ARM processor not x86 it does mean that you can't run any old software on it, it has to be ported to run on ARM instead of x86, but even then RT normally won't let you run any applications in desktop mode at all apart from the ones already built in. With the jailbreak if will let run desktop applications which aren't written by microsoft (but still have to be ported to RT). There is then a list of a few programs people have ported to windows RT, a few games are on it, the quake engines are on it. Call of duty can't ever be done, for someone like you or me to port a piece of software to windows RT we need the source code, and that is not publically available. Open source programs only (as they are the ones we can get the code for to modify for RT).
I do think its a bit odd that a person would buy a surface and not know whether they bought an RT or Pro though :/

Haha. I checked the box and it says windows RT at the bottom, assume that's means I have a RT. I didn't know there was 2 version until I came on here.
Thanks mate.

Android for Surface RT - how difficult?

What would be required to make Android for Surface RT? The exploit to get into kernel mode exists, so this is more about what is required to get Android running.
Surface RT has a Tegra3 with 2 GB RAM, but I don't know much more than that about the actual hardware. Does Android have drivers for such hardware already?
I'm more of a Windows person. I don't know Linux internals very well.

Myriachan said:
What would be required to make Android for Surface RT? The exploit to get into kernel mode exists, so this is more about what is required to get Android running.
Surface RT has a Tegra3 with 2 GB RAM, but I don't know much more than that about the actual hardware. Does Android have drivers for such hardware already?
I'm more of a Windows person. I don't know Linux internals very well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The biggest challenge would be loading Linux and getting it not to panic immediately.
Other than that, there are tegra drivers available, but I seem to recall that the OEMs customize certain aspects, such as memory mappings, that we'd either have to reverse engineer from Windows or just straight up guess on.

netham45 said:
The biggest challenge would be loading Linux and getting it not to panic immediately.
Other than that, there are tegra drivers available, but I seem to recall that the OEMs customize certain aspects, such as memory mappings, that we'd either have to reverse engineer from Windows or just straight up guess on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think another hard part would be implementing some sort of way to capture the output of Linux's console once the NT kernel is gone.
I don't think that getting the memory mappings would actually be too difficult, if we know the devices.

Myriachan said:
What would be required to make Android for Surface RT? The exploit to get into kernel mode exists, so this is more about what is required to get Android running.
Surface RT has a Tegra3 with 2 GB RAM, but I don't know much more than that about the actual hardware. Does Android have drivers for such hardware already?
I'm more of a Windows person. I don't know Linux internals very well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
NVidia have a full linux for tegra project. They like OEMs to keep the devices similar to an extent I think. You can buy tegra dev boards as a consumer (although they have ridiculous prices).
Much of the surface hardware interfaces via i2c as per the microsoft windows 8 hardware guidelines. UART usage is not allowed so much in Windows 8 for internal devices but the tegra does have quite a few UARTS and I presume bare minimum 1 of them is accessible externally, question is how or where. Quite a few methods have been used on phones for adding external serial access, but who knows where it would be on the RT, would take some very intimate PCB tracing to work out where the hell it is if it is there. Common ones I have seen have been a specific resistor value used on the sense line for a USB-OTG adaptor to then trigger a pinmux to swap USB D+ and D- for a serial Tx and Rx, any other value would then trigger the USB host function as you would expect such a cable to do. Same has been done on the nexus 4 between the microphone and ground pins on the audio jack. iPhones and I think the galaxy tabs have them in their regular plug (well, all iOS devices with a 30 pin connector rather than lightning, galaxy tabs also have their own large pin count connector instead of a microUSB).
The RT, well the external keyboard connector is 6 pins. Keyboard, mouse and accelerometer all interface via the i2c bus which is 2 pins (SDA, SCL), all comms need a ground and a VCC connection of some sort is required. thats 4 pins accounted for. For some reason though 1 of the pins isn't connected within the tablet itself, so there are only actually 5 pins. Could the 5th be a sense line?
Android on RT, well, android is linux kernel based. So start with linux on RT and your probably most of the way there. Once your that far you might aswell get a "regular" linux distro on there, if you had full hardware support and were to run lets say ubuntu (for simplicities sake) you probably have a device far more useful than Windows RT now that you are free of the RT limitations
Oh, android kernel sources for several tegra devices are available too I think.
But I am guessing the biggest obstacle is getting the RT to even attempt to boot a linux kernel.
---------- Post added at 11:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:28 PM ----------
Oh, anyone really interested in whats under the hood of that chip: https://developer.nvidia.com/tegra-3-technical-reference-manual
Display might cause a slight issue. Tegra has both DSI and LDVS display support. Which one is the Surface using is unknown. If I had to hazard a guess, I would wager the surface uses DSI. Mostly because it has an HDMI output, the tegra does not support HDMI output natively, however converting a set of LDVS signals to HDMI (and vice versa) are relatively straight forward compared to DSI. You can get DSI screens in the RT's size, so I would guess they use DSI for the screen and LDVS with an adaptor for the HDMI, or if someone was testing the display output of the RT, you could just presume its LDVS for instance and simply connect the RT to a display as it boots linux and see whether the internal or external displays come on first I guess, or device manager in windows might shed some light (or it might not).
There is PCIe in there, wouldnt surprise me if they use it for networking. I dont see anything else suited to the task particularly (outside of special use cases, SPI is often used for an arduino for example, but at the same time it isnt streaming youtube in 1080p).

The issue here is there is too few devs on xda working on the RT. This is going to stay until more people get RT devices. Look at the HP Touchpad, the dev community was stagnant until the fire sales. After the fire sales, people started ports of android and now afaik, there are fully working ports.
I believe a similar thing must occur for the Surface RT, perhaps clearing stock at $300-$350 with keyboard. Get more people onboard and some serious dev work will begin. MS won't have fire sales, they are not going to close down the RT division anytime soon so chances are, it'll just be some sale to clear old stock.

Actually they are having a sale right now. In korea atleast. 310,000krw (approx US$277) for a 32gb surface and touch cover..
Sent from my MB860 using xda app-developers app

This may sound dumb but, wouldn't it be simpler to drop linux from android and run android natively on windows? Just like normal software in fullscreen.
After all, android is a shell ontop of an OS.
These guys did it on x86 (Surface Pro): http://windroy.com/

ScRePt said:
This may sound dumb but, wouldn't it be simpler to drop linux from android and run android natively on windows? Just like normal software in fullscreen.
After all, android is a shell ontop of an OS.
These guys did it on x86 (Surface Pro): http://windroy.com/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They are not first to do so. Bluestacks and JarOfBeans.
Android mostly consists of the dalvik virtual machine and a few libraries, its a complex project though and it does rely heavily on linux capabilities, I think Bluestacks uses cygwin extensively, which isnt available for RT and is very complex itself.
Its actually incredibly difficult to do what you propose. It might actually be simpler to get the linux kernel booting, besides, the linux kernel on an RT device would be more useful in the long term as it would open the door to running Ubuntu or something on the device.

I referred windroy because I am quite amazed of it's speed.
I thought they just wrapped the linux calls to call the winapi and thus it seemed simpler than porting a whole OS

@ threadstarter:
just buy a nexus tablet if you are in android THAT much.

The idea is to have both Windows and Android... there's no ARM tablet that can currently do that. Besides, "put Linux on it" is a time-honored hacking tradition. It doesn't even need to be practical, really. Myriachan has already done some very cool work for the community, too... https://twitter.com/Myriachan/statuses/365350790803619840

unbenannt said:
@ threadstarter:
just buy a nexus tablet if you are in android THAT much.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure if you realise who the thread starter was. One of the people who works on jailbreaking the RT and porting applications in the first place, not some random noob saying "herpa I want android derpa".
Its almost unwritten law that when a new device comes out, someone needs to get linux booting on it. Someone has even booted linux on an 8bit AVR microcontroller (AtMega328 specifically I think, although technically they cheated by wiring an actual RAM DIMM module to it and an SD card and then hand writing an ARM emulator which then loaded a linux for ARM port up, took a few hours to boot actually ). Chumbys, DVD set top boxes, phones, watches, anything including the nexus tablet actually https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nexus7/Installation. NEEDS LINUX.
Anyway. If you could boot linux on it then an RT tablet then to many people it would become instantly more usable, its actually the sort of thing that would make me interested in using my 10% off voucher for one.

lambstone said:
The issue here is there is too few devs on xda working on the RT. This is going to stay until more people get RT devices. Look at the HP Touchpad, the dev community was stagnant until the fire sales. After the fire sales, people started ports of android and now afaik, there are fully working ports.
I believe a similar thing must occur for the Surface RT, perhaps clearing stock at $300-$350 with keyboard. Get more people onboard and some serious dev work will begin. MS won't have fire sales, they are not going to close down the RT division anytime soon so chances are, it'll just be some sale to clear old stock.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, Microsoft just sold 10,000 RT devices on their "manufacturer_certified" eBay account at firesale prices.
about 7,500 Surface RT 32GB with touch cover sold for $199.
and 2,500 Surface RT 64GB sold at $199
I picked up one at this price, obviously a lot of others did as well.

brad1825 said:
Well, Microsoft just sold 10,000 RT devices on their "manufacturer_certified" eBay account at firesale prices.
about 7,500 Surface RT 32GB with touch cover sold for $199.
and 2,500 Surface RT 64GB sold at $199
I picked up one at this price, obviously a lot of others did as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hm. Any link to show where you got the figures?
If they indeed sold 10k RT devices, this could bring a boost to the RT dev environment.

my surface is perfect, no hacking needed. does 99% of wat a tablet should do. perfectly

spaco22 said:
my surface is perfect, no hacking needed. does 99% of wat a tablet should do. perfectly
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good for you, you really needed to post that? This thread is here for those where the tablet does not do what it should do for some users...

This thing is practically doing a touchpad style firesale for black friday. The hardware is nice for the $200 price point, but I won't bother getting one unless there's a decent chance of an Android port (RT is useless.)
Any work towards that end since this thread died off?

Rakeesh_j said:
This thing is practically doing a touchpad style firesale for black friday. The hardware is nice for the $200 price point, but I won't bother getting one unless there's a decent chance of an Android port (RT is useless.)
Any work towards that end since this thread died off?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry for that, but in my opinion Android on a tablet is useless...! Except of the case you want many useless apps and games on your tablet...
On RT you have much more opportunities e.g. full USB support full working Office and much more!!!
Gesendet von meinem GT-I9100

lambstone said:
The issue here is there is too few devs on xda working on the RT. This is going to stay until more people get RT devices. Look at the HP Touchpad, the dev community was stagnant until the fire sales. After the fire sales, people started ports of android and now afaik, there are fully working ports.
I believe a similar thing must occur for the Surface RT, perhaps clearing stock at $300-$350 with keyboard. Get more people onboard and some serious dev work will begin. MS won't have fire sales, they are not going to close down the RT division anytime soon so chances are, it'll just be some sale to clear old stock.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fire sales have begun! Hoping to pick mine up on Black Friday!
http://www.microcenter.com/product/412706/Surface_RT_32GB_with_Black_Touch_Cover

lambstone said:
MS won't have fire sales, they are not going to close down the RT division anytime soon so chances are, it'll just be some sale to clear old stock.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't be so sure about that.
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/nov/26/microsoft-kill-windows-rt-larson-green
http://www.geek.com/microsoft/windo...according-to-microsofts-devices-lead-1578243/
MisterKrispy said:
Fire sales have begun! Hoping to pick mine up on Black Friday!
http://www.microcenter.com/product/412706/Surface_RT_32GB_with_Black_Touch_Cover
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
$179.99 seems about right for standing out in the cold.
lambstone said:
The issue here is there is too few devs on xda working on the RT.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not for long.

Windows 10 ARM on Surface RT?

I ran across this little article and I was thinking that when this option becomes available it may be applicable to the Surface. I was able to get a surface for free from a friend of mine who was having trouble charging it. I was there doing work on a laptop for her dad and she just told me I could have the tablet. I offered to try and repair it, and she just said to keep it. So, got the surface rt, blue keyboard, and a case. Come to find out that all that was bad was the charger. Some loose wires. I wasn't able to fix the charger, but I have a new one coming tomorrow. Now I have to come up something to do with this little tablet. Minecraft for the kids would be preferred. Everything else is fine on the tablet. So, a little curious to see how this Windows 10 ARM works and if it will work to put on the Surface RT. Especially, with the emulation built in.
https://www.windowscentral.com/windows-10-arm-not-windows-rt

lol x86 emulation isn't going to work on a Tegra 3. There has been work on porting Windows 10 IoT to the tablet but there is a lot to do like porting drivers and applications

fgghjjkll said:
lol x86 emulation isn't going to work on a Tegra 3. There has been work on porting Windows 10 IoT to the tablet but there is a lot to do like porting drivers and applications
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol what. The old tegra hardware is perfectly capable from a hardware standpoint.
We already had working emulation on the surface RT... I played though all of fallout 1 on my surface RT.
https://hackaday.com/2013/02/18/running-x86-apps-on-windows-rt-devices/
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2095934

danthekilla said:
Lol what. The old tegra hardware is perfectly capable from a hardware standpoint.
We already had working emulation on the surface RT... I played though all of fallout 1 on my surface RT.
https://hackaday.com/2013/02/18/running-x86-apps-on-windows-rt-devices/
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2095934
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The project is abandoned. Sorry.

There is this group working on Linux for the rt model surface units. https://redirect.viglink.com/?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_151267220466917&key=f0a7f91912ae2b52e0700f73990eb321&libId=jawsy41u01000n4o000DAwb2n09zf9zol&loc=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.xda-developers.com%2Fsitesearch.php%3Fq%3Dwindows%2520surface%2520rt&v=1&out=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Furl%3Fq%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fforum.xda-developers.com%2Fwindows-8-rt%2Frt-development%2Fwip-secure-boot-linux-surface-rt-t3653848%26sa%3DU%26ved%3D0ahUKEwiEsrbTwPjXAhWD2YMKHQPXA48QFggMMAQ%26client%3Dinternal-uds-cse%26cx%3Dpartner-pub-2900107662879704%3A4763122713%26usg%3DAOvVaw09iZfaks4BIXZgVRFCfAIG&title=General%20Search&txt=%5BWIP%5D%20Secure%20Boot%20and%20Linux%20for%20%3Cb%3ESurface%20RT%3C%2Fb%3E%20%7C%20%3Cb%3EWindows%3C%2Fb%3E%208%2C%20RT%20...

puppychow said:
There is this group working on Linux for the rt model surface units. https://redirect.viglink.com/?forma... <b>Surface RT</b> | <b>Windows</b> 8, RT ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Link isnt working

phoenixbennu said:
I ran across this little article and I was thinking that when this option becomes available it may be applicable to the Surface. I was able to get a surface for free from a friend of mine who was having trouble charging it. I was there doing work on a laptop for her dad and she just told me I could have the tablet. I offered to try and repair it, and she just said to keep it. So, got the surface rt, blue keyboard, and a case. Come to find out that all that was bad was the charger. Some loose wires. I wasn't able to fix the charger, but I have a new one coming tomorrow. Now I have to come up something to do with this little tablet. Minecraft for the kids would be preferred. Everything else is fine on the tablet. So, a little curious to see how this Windows 10 ARM works and if it will work to put on the Surface RT. Especially, with the emulation built in.
https://www.windowscentral.com/windows-10-arm-not-windows-rt
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Windows 10 for Surface RT has been leaked.
Here is a link (follow the steps carefully)
https://forum.xda-developers.com/wi...face-rt-2-windows-10-arm32-step-step-t4107273