Someone asked help on our local forum about this and I thought it might also be of help here, so here goes my share.
If you are like me who wants to carry only a small cable for charging and data transfers, you'll find it hard to get your hands on a good micro USB charging/data cable. Buying micro USB charging/data cable for Samsung is tricky since the wiring can be different from the normal USB cable. There should be 5 pins on the micro end, but sometimes there are just 4. But Samsung cable uses only 4 pins that might have been rewired. I'm not sure whether only Samsung does this or the same can be said of the other brands. There are also micro USB cables being sold that does only charging and no data function, and vice versa.
I've grown tired of searching for a cheapo charging/data cable that doesn't deliver the function, so what I did was I bought micro USB to USB adapters instead and bought a normal female-to-male usb cable extender just in case the fragile cable wires get broken again they can be easily replaced. They get the job done. You can also use the other gender adapter and cable combo but using the same combo that I use enables you to charge and transfer data with just the adapter and without the cable in case the fragile cable gets damaged.
They charge the phone as fast as what the USB power brick provides and what the phone can accept at the same time. :victory:
This thread was opened with the intention to help others to easily find an almost guaranteed working data/charging cable combo because not everyone has access to a cheap branded cable. (And sometimes even a branded cable does not guarantee both functions). This is a quicker guaranteed solution for those buying micro USB cable that has no way to test the cable they are purchasing, mostly those buying online or those buying impulsively.
The logic behind the "almost guaranteed working data/charging cable combo" is that unlike micro USB cable, an extension cable guarantees that every pin has its own wire with no modifications, that's why it is called an extension cable. The micro USB adapter, guarantees the full conversion from micro USB to USB interface to have all pins connected properly, that's why it is called adapter/converter.
So, if you do not like the idea of the extended length that is protruding out of your micro USB slot, this thread is not for you and you are not obliged to use or try the setup in any way. The solution provided here is not perfect but a fully functional solution.
I hope this can help someone.
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No offense, but that is a seriously stupid idea. Do you have any idea the amount of leverage that contraption will put on the μUSB port? Hit that wrong or yank it too far and it will snap the port right off the board.
There is absolutely nothing special about any Samsung charger or cable. They use standard, straight-through A-B cables just like every other phone. The chargers themselves conform to industry standards, whereas + and - are on pins 1 and 4, and the data pins are tied together in order to trigger the phone into high current charge mode. The "B" end of a mini/micro USB does have 5 pins - the extra pin is for an ID resistor (referenced to ground), so the phone can identify when it has been inserted into a desk or car dock. There is no corresponding pin on the "A" end, and the lack of an ID resistor or the physical pin will have absolutely no effect on charging.
Taz420nj said:
No offense, but that is a seriously stupid idea. Do you have any idea the amount of leverage that contraption will put on the μUSB port? Hit that wrong or yank it too far and it will snap the port right off the board..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The same goes for the charging flap. Anything that is applied too much force will break. I've been using it for almost a month now and everything is fine. It's just an alternative, maybe a short-term substitute for the oem usb cable if you want.
Taz420nj said:
There is absolutely nothing special about any Samsung charger or cable. They use standard, straight-through A-B cables just like every other phone. The chargers themselves conform to industry standards, whereas + and - are on pins 1 and 4, and the data pins are tied together in order to trigger the phone into high current charge mode. The "B" end of a mini/micro USB does have 5 pins - the extra pin is for an ID resistor (referenced to ground), so the phone can identify when it has been inserted into a desk or car dock. There is no corresponding pin on the "A" end, and the lack of an ID resistor or the physical pin will have absolutely no effect on charging.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And how would you explain the slow charging by other micro usb cables then when using the Samsung-bundled power brick? The usb cables work properly with other devices, other than Samsung. I have plenty of them, only 1 other cable works properly.
http://forums.androidcentral.com/samsung-galaxy-s4-accessories/274965-samsung-s4s-micro-usb-standard-usb-cable-2.html
And no, Samsung bundles 4-pin cables. So the phone can't identify when it has been inserted into a desk or car dock?
I've never had any trouble with generic charging cables on any of my Samsung Galaxy phones. That adaptor looks useful for plugging in a memory stick though. Lol
Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
My Kindle USB charger cable doesn't work for my S5. It just doesn't fit but all my other charges cables from my S3, Nexus 7 and of course my S5 cable work. A bit strange but I guess it is the problem of the Kindle cable? BTW the Kindle one works on my S5...
jopat said:
The same goes for the charging flap. Anything that is applied too much force will break. I've been using it for almost a month now and everything is fine. It's just an alternative, maybe a short-term substitute for the oem usb cable if you want.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course anything can be broken given enough force. But it takes far less force to break something when you have effectively quadrupled the length of the lever. The stock cable's plug is 1/2" long. That contraption is easily 2" long. That's the same reason you don't use a one-piece solid adapter to plug 1/4" headphones into the 1/8" jack on your phone. It's 6th grade science.
And how would you explain the slow charging by other micro usb cables then when using the Samsung-bundled power brick? The usb cables work properly with other devices, other than Samsung. I have plenty of them, only 1 other cable works properly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Considering you are the only one to have this "problem", Mod Edit – Some content removed . USB is USB. That's the entire point of adhering to standards. There are no "special" or "rewired" cables for Samsung, nor does any current Samsung device (with the exception of the Tab2 10.1) require any proprietary cable or charger. If a device's connectors do not adhere to the published USB standards, then the USB name and logo can not be used under penalty of law. A company can use the technology in a non-standard configuration, but it must have a distinctly different connector and can not use the USB marks.
And no, Samsung bundles 4-pin cables. So the phone can't identify when it has been inserted into a desk or car dock?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WTF are you talking about? The standard "A" side of ANY USB cable only has 4 pins. There is no such thing as a 5 pin standard "A". The μUSB JACK on the phone has all 5 pins (well, technically 10, since it is USB3.0, but the extras aren't pertinent). μUSB "B" end of a CABLE does not use the ID pin (pin 4), because it does not need to - so whether or not it is physically present in the plug end is moot, because even if it is there, it's not connected to anything. The only thing the ID pin is used for is for situations where the phone needs to know when a certain device is connected. If the ID pin is connected straight to ground, the phone knows that an OTG adapter is plugged in and it puts itself into host mode. If it sees a certain resistance to ground, it puts itself into either car mode or dock mode depending on what resistance it sees.
And for the record, most of the posters commenting in that thread you linked to over at AC are retards. Especially the OP, who claims to "know for certain" that the S3 uses a connection with reversed pins. Because just like EVERY OTHER PHONE WITH A μUSB PORT, the S3's jack follows the USB standard pinout.
---------- Post added at 12:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:48 PM ----------
AMoosa said:
I've never had any trouble with generic charging cables on any of my Samsung Galaxy phones. That adaptor looks useful for plugging in a memory stick though. Lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It won't work, because it's not an actual OTG adapter. It doesn't have the ID pin tied to ground in order to put the phone into host mode.
This made me LOL
But yes any A to Micro USB cable will work. However, if you use the provided cable that Samsung gives you it will charge quicker by using the extra USB3.0 plug.
But, my S4 charges just as fast as the standard OEM cable they provided when using my Galaxy S2 or any other quality USB A to Micro USB wire. This however is not true when using junk/cheap USB cables irregardless the USB plug ends. The wire quality is usually pants compared to other brands. Some of the cheap USB wires will even show a resistance on an ohms meter.
In the end, the OP is making a very complicated USB plug for their phone Just buy a quality USB cable from walmart ebay bestbuy etc
elesbb said:
But yes any A to Micro USB cable will work. However, if you use the provided cable that Samsung gives you it will charge quicker by using the extra USB3.0 plug.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, but that's wrong*. The 3.0 plug only adds extra data pins. Power still runs through pins 1 and 5. It will charge faster if you use the provided CHARGER - because that outputs two amps, versus the 3/4 to one amp output by older/generic chargers. The S2/S3 came with one amp cube chargers, the S4/S5 came with a two amp. The ones you find at gas stations are generally 750mA to one amp. But it does not matter if you use a 2.0 or 3.0 cable to get that charge rate, because it is dependent on the charger, not the cable..
[* the 3.0 standard does call for higher power capability when connected to a computer port - the device can negotiate up to 900mA from the host while simultaneously transmitting data (USB2.0 specifies up to 500mA). However this is still lower than the power that is available from the supplied charger.]
As far as sourcing cables, you absolutely can't go wrong with Monoprice. They have the high quality cables with the glossy, hard plastic plug grips (just like what comes with Apple and high end Samsung products) for $3..
Taz420nj said:
LOL I just noticed that
RETARD changed the pics in the OP of which adapter and cable he kludged together - I guess in an attempt to make it look less idiotic.. However it's still stupid, because YOU CAN USE ANY A-TO-MICRO-B CABLE IN ANY LENGTH.
In case anyone's interested, this is what he had originally posted..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LoL
Those are not the pics I posted, you just posted your own pics. You're always trying too hard. :silly:
But, yes, I changed the pics because the pics are the opposite gender from what I have indicated that I bought. Nonetheless, they are the objects indicated as vice versa, which failed to register in the pea-size object inside that large cranium of yours.
so what I did was I bought micro USB to USB adapters instead and bought a normal female-to-male usb cable extender just in case the fragile cable wires get broken again they can be easily replaced. They get the job done. You can also use the other gender adapter and cable combo but using the same combo that I use enables you to charge and transfer data with just the adapter and without the cable in case the fragile cable gets damaged.
Taz420nj said:
I actually don't need to back up my "claim" (which it's not actually a "claim", it's a well-documented, globally recognized industry standard) - because you're posting all the evidence for me. You're just too stupid to realize it. Now please. After you impale your crotch on that rusty gate (you should do it multiple times just to be sure), go eat some kindergarten paste and play hopscotch with the rest of the retards.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's because you can't, in any way. First, you don't have that capacity. Second, those " well-documented, globally recognized industry standard" is not for the "USB" that you re referring to, therefore they don't exist. "USB" is not the whole device or cable itself, but the receptacle & plug and how they will transmit power and data. They don't specify how the device should deliver them. In fact, you can attach another device in the cable between the USB ends.
Taz420nj said:
USB is an INDUSTRY STANDARD. That means in order for a manufacturer to be allowed to call a device "USB Certified", the manufacturer MUST ADHERE TO THE STANDARD'S POSTED SPECIFICATIONS. It does not matter whether the manufacturer chose to use a standard, mini, or micro USB port. It also does not matter if the manufacturer uses a dual-purpose port (such as a USB/eSATA hybrid port on a laptop) or proprietary port (such as Samsung's 11 pin Micro USB) - provided that the port is BACKWARDS COMPATIBLE (there's that obscure word again) - meaning that still adheres to the posted specifications for pinouts and connector dimensions for the USB standard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll say it once again, the USB standard is for the connectors. Anything beyond the connectors and the immediate wires connecting on the pins are not covered by the standard that you claim.
So, just for everyone's information, and since I am already tired of your continued spawning of nonsense and making others ignorant as you, I will explain everything in detail in layman's term. Although, I doubt that eenie weenie pea-size object in your cranium can comprehend them. But nonetheless, I will have maximum tolerance for the handicapped in this thread. Be sure not to post any blabbering anymore, because your ignorance is being broadcasted worldwide.
USB is a plug & socket standard, just like your power plug and power sockets. They have their own standards set by the governing bodies to ensure universality among electronic devices to ensure that they fit and function. Like the power plug, the USB has + and - wires, but with added wires for data transfer. The standard refers to the physical dimensions and positions of the plug and function of the pins, as well as the code classes, but anything beyond that other than the voltage are not covered by the usb standard. If they were also included in the same standard, there won't be innovation. It will be dictating something like a power plug can only be attached to an electric fan and cannot be used elsewhere. The wires inside are also not obliged by the standard to be present. Although there are 4 pins, they are not required to be all used and attached electric wires into. This is the reason why you can't say that all USB cables are the same and will function the same, and that especially applies to micro USB cables. They look the same but you will not know the difference until you use them or slice them open.
Taz420nj said:
However it's still stupid, because YOU CAN USE ANY A-TO-MICRO-B CABLE IN ANY LENGTH.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For your statement that you keep on insisting, your tribe was obviously left out by civilization. For charging/data cable, which this thread aims to give alternative to, you need the correct micro USB cable, using just any micro USB cable that you come across won't guarantee that it will supply power for charging and do data transfer.
Regarding length, you cannot use just ANY LENGTH because the signal weakens after a certain length. You will need to attach a booster to maintain that transfer speed longer than that length.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#Cabling
The USB 1.1 Standard specifies that a standard cable can have a maximum length of 5 meters with devices operating at Full Speed (12 Mbit/s), and a maximum length of 3 meters with devices operating at Low Speed (1.5 Mbit/s).
USB 2.0 provides for a maximum cable length of 5 meters for devices running at Hi Speed (480 Mbit/s). The primary reason for this limit is the maximum allowed round-trip delay of about 1.5 μs. If USB host commands are unanswered by the USB device within the allowed time, the host considers the command lost. When adding USB device response time, delays from the maximum number of hubs added to the delays from connecting cables, the maximum acceptable delay per cable amounts to 26 ns. The USB 2.0 specification requires that cable delay be less than 5.2 ns per meter (192 000 km/s, which is close to the maximum achievable transmission speed for standard copper wire).
The USB 3.0 standard does not directly specify a maximum cable length, requiring only that all cables meet an electrical specification: for copper cabling with AWG 26 wires the maximum practical length is 3 meters (9.8 ft).
This is, again, straight from wiki:
To reliably enable a charge-only feature, modern USB accessory peripherals now include charging cables that provide power connections to the host port but no data connections, and both home and vehicle charging docks are available that supply power from a converter device and do not include a host device and data pins, allowing any capable USB device to charge or operate from a standard USB cable.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#Connector_types
This is particularly evident in most micro USB cables bundled with powerbanks. The powerbank requires only to supply power and it doesn't need data transfer. So, it is more logical to bundle data-less cable so that the material acquisition cost could be lowered. The opposite can said about older cellphones that are bundled with proprietary charging cables that have micro USB slots for data transfer. Most of their bundled USB cables do not have charging capabilities, although some can still be charged when plugged into the computer.
And also, this proves that USB cables do not provide the same current or amperage. And also proves that not all micro USB cables will charge your device at full speed due to different resistance which the caveman has still failed to answer. The OP provided visuals, so I'm hoping the caveman can at least recognize them. This is a factual data and not some blabbering blah-blah-blah from someone obviously left out by time.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2451375
vectron said:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This thread was opened with the intention to help others to easily find an almost guaranteed working data/charging cable combo alternative because not everyone has access to a cheap branded cable. (And sometimes even a branded cable does not guarantee both functions). This is a quicker guaranteed solution for those buying micro USB cable that has no way to test the cable they are purchasing, mostly those buying online or those buying impulsively.
The logic behind the "almost guaranteed working data/charging cable combo" is that unlike micro USB cable, an extension cable guarantees that every pin has its own wire with no modifications, that's why it is called an extension cable. The micro USB adapter, guarantees the full conversion from micro USB to USB interface to have all pins connected properly, that's why it is called adapter/converter.
So, if you do not like the idea of the extended length that is protruding out of your micro USB slot, this thread is not for you and you are not obliged to use or try the setup in any way. The solution provided here is not perfect but a fully functional solution.
To avoid further trolling, this thread will not be updated any more nor any post will be made by the OP.
Oh my f*cking god it is amazing that someone can be as utterly stupid as you are and survive beyond puberty. Seriously, do you have any idea what a moron you sound like?
YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.
I find it absolutely ASTOUNDING that you are quoting sources that completely contradict your argument, and yet you claim them as evidence that you are right.
I was particularly amused by the fact that you quoted the wiki, but you don't seem to have read or understood what you quoted in the least. This is evidenced by the fact that you claim:
jopat said:
] Second, those " well-documented, globally recognized industry standard" is not for the "USB" that you re referring to, therefore they don't exist. "USB" is not the whole device or cable itself, but the receptacle & plug and how they will transmit power and data. They don't specify how the device should deliver them. In fact, you can attach another device in the cable between the USB ends.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and
jopat said:
]I'll say it once again, the USB standard is for the connectors. Anything beyond the connectors and the immediate wires connecting on the pins are not covered by the standard that you claim.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But if you had actually read the VERY FIRST LINE at the top of the wiki entry, it says:
Universal Serial Bus (USB) is an industry standard developed in the mid-1990s that defines the cables, connectors and communications protocols used in a bus for connection, communication, and power supply between computers and electronic devices
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is not just about the "connectors and the immediate wires connecting the pins", the USB standard lays out EVERYTHING, from the connector dimensions, to the pinouts, to the cables, to the power transmission levels, to the data transfer. If a device does not comply with those standards, then it can not be legally called "USB Certified".
Game, set, match.
Mod Edit
Thread Closed
ronnie498
Forum Moderator
Related
I bought a couple of cheap generic USB cables, one a retractable micro USB job and the other a standard USB that splits to both a mini and micro USB at the other end.
Both cables charge my phone just fine, but the phone doesn't register either cable as a data connection and no notification comes up.
Is the micro USB cable that comes with the phone industry standard, and if so does this mean that my generic cables are likely to be just off spec enough in some way that the phone doesn't register them?
Strange thing is that the mini USB end of the split cable seem to work on other things like cameras and other phones. I'm confuzzled.
when plugging in cable did you activate usb mount in the notification bar
i bought a mini to micro converter as I still have quite a few devices that need mini and thought I could save on convenience by just carrying round the adapter and plugging into existing computer cables and chargers I have around the house, car and work - Same thing with that power only, no data.
Got it from ebay some of the listings on there state "power only", still dont understand why, it cant be much more expensive to wire all 4 pins. As micro is becoming the standard.....
Harry454 said:
when plugging in cable did you activate usb mount in the notification bar
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the problem, I plug the cable into the N1, but don't get a notification, no tone, nothing to suggest that the phone sees the cable as a data cable at all.
I'm guessing that if the phone doesn't think it is a data cable there is no way to persuade it otherwise.
There's essentially 2 types of cables: Charge-only or Sync & Charge. This is true for the adapters as well.
It seems you folks mistakenly bought the Charge-only cable/adapter.
After some research, I found this cable (it's blackberry branded, but works 100% with my N1 for Sync and Charge):
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001UC9NOQ/ref=oss_product
It's cheap ($3 shipped), it's made by a trusted brand (Blackberry) and the actual cable is rather thickly insulated so it's durable too.
Read the user reviews, especially the guy with the high helpful votes count, for more details about charge-only and sync-n-charge cables.
Just tried both cables on a Nokia E623, and they both worked fine first time, charging and data.
Now it' looking like there is something slightly odd (or perfectly on spec) about the female Micro USB plug on the N1. Perhaps they are just made to only accept male plugs that exactly meet standard specs, and if a plug is out slightly in say it's contact positions or sizes the N1 won't detect it.
Anyone got any ideas?
= DIY usb hub for HTC =
== Warning ==
First of all, your using this manual at your own risk, I don't take any responsebilety for your actions.
If you make a mistake you risk blowing up your phone usb port, or even burning out the phone completly.
I have a background in electronics and was age 12 when I did my first hardware mod on a computer.
I knew the risc I was taking when I started this mod, an I accepted it.
The included pictures are just for reference, do not use them as a guide, your board will be different.
If you happen to use the same usb hub, then also use the same connection points.
== Introduction ==
Unlike the Y cable this mod leaves all usb ports available, but it renders the usb hub useless for normal use.
It's gone be purely for use on HTC phones which DO NOT supply power to the usb port, check your phone before you start building.
== The parts ==
For this project we need the following parts.
* 4 port usb hub (this may be a active/powered hub, but those mostly have a to weak powersupply).
* micro usb cable.
* powersupply of 5V and at least 2000mA.
* half a liter of fresh coffee or energy drink.
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== Power ==
A standard usb port of a computer supply's 5V with 500mA, so for a 4 port usb hub we need 4x the current, making the 2000mA.
But as the phone also needs at least 500mA, we need a bit more power, totaling 2500mA, alltho there is some wiggleroom here.
A keyboard/mouse hardly ever need the full 500mA, so we can steal a bit from that.
The powersupply i used gives out 2250mA, and using the above wiggleroom it leaves about 700mA for the phone.
== The internals of the hub ==
When we open the usb hub were gone find something like the next picture.
This is my finished hub so ignore the black and red wires for now.
Look for the green and white cables and imagine the red wire above them and the black under them.
The green and white cables are the data cables.
Cut of the standard usb plug from the micro usb cable, and connect the green and white cables to the same points as the original cable from the hub.
If your hub has a connector instead of a cable, the white cable goes beside the red wire (positive), the green beside the black (negative).
This is visible on the pictures.
If you have any doubt, then skip to the next step and come back after it.
Once you have figured out the powerlines this step will become clear.
== Finding the power lines ==
Originaly the usb cable powers the controller and sends the left over power to the ports, making the hub able to power low power devices like keyboards and mice.
This is why we have the wiggle room on the power supply.
So first we have to locate the power lines on the board as outlined on the next picture.
Red is the positive path, blue the negative path.
Look for the negative path first and you'll find the positive in no time.
An easy trick is to start look at the usb ports.
You'll see that 1 of the 4 pins is connected to the ground of the port, thats the negative pin/track.
the oposite pin of the 4 is the positive (the data pins are the 2 middle pins).
== The power protection ==
Now if you look carefully you can see 2 gaps in the positive path (red collor), those are there because of the protection needed when pluging in the external powersupply.
And the fact that the controller gets power from 2 locations.
They are located in the yellow circles on the next picture.
== Bypasing the power protection ==
But as the phone doesn't supply any power on the usb port, in fact it needs power, were gone have to bypase (easier then removing it) the protection.
This is fairly easy, just connect the points which normaly go to the usb cable which connects the computer to the points of the external powersupply.
The connector on my hub is located right beside the protection diode on the right side of the board.
== Rerouting the power to the phone ==
Next step is to give the phone power in the same way.
To make it easier I used 1 of the usb ports for this.
Safes the hassle to connect 2 cables to the small connection points.
== Putting the hub back together ==
Now we can put the hub back into it's casing.
== The finished project ==
And we end up with a special usb hub for our phone.
Like it was bought this way.
reserved for the battery pack project.
space for rent. lol
FaQ
Known devices to work which do not supply power to the usb port.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HD2
Known devices to work which do supply power to the usb port (you need to skip the power bypase to the phone on these devices).
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
this list will most likely contain tablets.
Known devices which do not work at all.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: I can not find the power path or protection on my hub.
A: Post a high detail closeup of the print of the hub so we can help and draw the path on the photo for you, like in the manual.
But consider the fact that you are getting into a very risky situation, we could be wrong due to a bad picture and you could interpret the photo we draw in a bad way.
I highly recomment that you get help from someone more skilled.
Q: My phone does supply power to the usb port.
A: Do not attach the power cables from the phone usb to the hub, leave it all to the external powersupply.
But remember to tape/isolate the cables to avoid shortings.
Q: I really want to have a hub like this but i'm not capable of building 1.
A: as i got only 4 requests by pm the demand seems to be very little.
but feel free to try and convince me by pm, but pls make it at least 5 hub's.
plopper
Thx for the idea and the detailed information.
Just bought a hub today and will try it within the next days.
But one question:
Is it neccessary to change the powercables to the phone?
I'm not sure, but wouldn't it work only with the 'bypass protection' wires?
With this bypass the old connection points are on the same power level as the new ones? Do I miss something?
regards and thx again
mf_1
mf_1 said:
Thx for the idea and the detailed information.
Just bought a hub today and will try it within the next days.
But one question:
Is it neccessary to change the powercables to the phone?
I'm not sure, but wouldn't it work only with the 'bypass protection' wires?
With this bypass the old connection points are on the same power level as the new ones? Do I miss something?
regards and thx again
mf_1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the protection bypase is indeed enough, but that forces you to stick 2 cables to the small connection points of the original usb cable.
the connections on the usb port are free and mostly they don't even cut off the leads, so you end up with more surface area, resulting in a stronger connection.
on my hub the usb ports are actualy holding the print on it's place, and by using the same length on all the leads (data and power) from the usb cable, and using the usb ports to connect the power makes it less likely that some jerking on the cable breaks/damages the print, also since i picked the 1 which was furthest away.
doesn't change anything on the workings but it's a safer idea.
good luck and have fun building.
plopper
Works great.
I've bought a very small hub and it wasn't easy to find the connection point (only needed the +5V connection), but thx to your description everything works fine.
With ubuntu it was plug & play, now I'm trying WM and android.
regards
mf_1
mf_1 said:
Works great.
I've bought a very small hub and it wasn't easy to find the connection point (only needed the +5V connection), but thx to your description everything works fine.
With ubuntu it was plug & play, now I'm trying WM and android.
regards
mf_1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
updated the manual a bit, inserted a trick to find them quicker.
on android you might have to enable the usb host mode in the kernel (like ubuntu's usb_host kernel).
not sure tho, pls inform me if this is true.
we tested it on a android tablet in a shop and that worked out of the box.
plopper
To make it a little easier: gnd should be the same on both +5 areas, so you only need to make 1 connection.
My Hub is a LogiLink USB 2.0 4 Port HUB (UA0003), a very small hub with a 2,0A Power Supply (in Germany available at Conrad electronics for 10€).
Your hint regarding Androids seems to be right, unfortunaly I'm not able to activate it by myself. Maybe one of the developers will built a version sometimes.
Do you have drivers for WM 6.5?
I used Zenos driver without success so far.
Regards
mf_1
mf_1 said:
To make it a little easier: gnd should be the same on both +5 areas, so you only need to make 1 connection.
My Hub is a LogiLink USB 2.0 4 Port HUB (UA0003), a very small hub with a 2,0A Power Supply (in Germany available at Conrad electronics for 10€).
Your hint regarding Androids seems to be right, unfortunaly I'm not able to activate it by myself. Maybe one of the developers will built a version sometimes.
Do you have drivers for WM 6.5?
I used Zenos driver without success so far.
Regards
mf_1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
based on our use of the hub you are indeed right, both gnd's should be the same and can be made with 1 connection.
but if the gnd's in both area's are connected by default, then you found a very bad hub.
connection the psu wrongly on a hub like that can have very bad results, smoke out of the computer.
but for our mod. they are perfect, safes a bit of work.
i haven't found any working wince drivers so far.
i'll contact some of the android cooks if they are willing to help with a test.
plopper
Technical opinion on hub choice
Can I use hub like in picture ? have one lying around doing nothing.
No external power supply on hub, but could buy 2.25A power adaptor & wire it to power tracks.
Could use standard built in usb lead with micro USB adaptor plug ?
Want to keep size & weight to minimum as travel a lot.
Could this replace standard HTC charger(1 less plug to carry) or is full charging via a 2A+ power adapter risky !
Mister B said:
Can I use hub like in picture ? have one lying around doing nothing.
No external power supply on hub, but could buy 2.25A power adaptor & wire it to power tracks.
Could use standard built in usb lead with micro USB adaptor plug ?
Want to keep size & weight to minimum as travel a lot.
Could this replace standard HTC charger(1 less plug to carry) or is full charging via a 2A+ power adapter risky !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
any hub can be used, just some need more or less modifications then others (due to bad design).
to be sure i would need a high resolution picture of the board.
the hd2 has multiple charging mode's.
the standard htc charger is 1 amp, but this doesn't mean it always pushed out that 1 amp.
it can deliver up to 1 amp, the same goes for the external psu you mentioned, just now we have a max of 2.25 amps..
if you worry i suggest you try and keep a close eye on the temperature of the battery.
above 60 celcius the risk of it exploding appears.
personaly i didn't feel a difference in heat on charging on 1 or 2 amps.
another option would be to drain the extra power by hooking up something like an external hdd, those need 1 amp (0.5 amps per usb port, 2 are used on these devices).
plopper
thanks for reply.
What constitutes as bad design for our intended modification ?
Is it not more simple to wire a non external powered hub as it will have no diode circiut to bridge, I'm thinking would only need to tap into power line for external 2A supply & with a micro USB adaptor on original recoil lead it would fit & feed HD2 correctly.
Will strip hub tomorrow if got time, is my rough summary sounding practical from your experience ?
Mister B said:
thanks for reply.
What constitutes as bad design for our intended modification ?
Is it not more simple to wire a non external powered hub as it will have no diode circiut to bridge, I'm thinking would only need to tap into power line for external 2A supply & with a micro USB adaptor on original recoil lead it would fit & feed HD2 correctly.
Will strip hub tomorrow if got time, is my rough summary sounding practical from your experience ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
with our intended modification the world turns around.
the best designed hub becomes the worst.
every protection they add, we have to cancel out.
i had the same idea like you, get a non powered hub and connect a psu to it.
but when i unpacked it the power socket appeared.
i wouldn't be surprised if you found the socket painted on the top side of the print and the diodes replaced for bridges.
means less work, hookup 1 random usb port to the psu, replace the plug and done.
plopper
hey this is a great idea, but unfortunately for the electrically illiterate it's a bit over our heads. i'd really like to tackle this but im going to have to learn some of the basics first. is there any chance that someone who has made one of these could upload a tutorial vid on youtube? im sure im not the only would who would appreciate it.
non soldered way?
I have bought a 4 way USB hub which has a usb socket on its input lead. This can be plugged into your PC or into a usb mains charger or usb car charger.
If the input lead is plugged into one of the four output sockets and the lead is cut open and the red and black wires are exposed, a 2A 5v charger can be connected to these wires by twisting together and taping.
This then powers both sides of the hub with 2A supply and by-passes the protection.
It does sacrifice 1 output socket but HD2 +keyboard+mouse= happy Ubuntu
Will this work?
Edit; I have posted a Thread in HD2 Ubuntu Q&A http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1130905 to try for more feedback.
If it does work then thanks should go to Plopper for his hard work in this and on other Fora. (And apologies for any lost business!)
DOH!
I must have read this thread quite a few times, but I have only just understood what plopper and Mister B were saying in their last posts.
There is no protection in unpowered usb hubs, so no need to bypass it!
I have checked this and it works.
No wonder there have been no replies!
Robbie P said:
I have bought a 4 way USB hub which has a usb socket on its input lead. This can be plugged into your PC or into a usb mains charger or usb car charger.
If the input lead is plugged into one of the four output sockets and the lead is cut open and the red and black wires are exposed, a 2A 5v charger can be connected to these wires by twisting together and taping.
This then powers both sides of the hub with 2A supply and by-passes the protection.
It does sacrifice 1 output socket but HD2 +keyboard+mouse= happy Ubuntu
Will this work?
Edit; I have posted a Thread in HD2 Ubuntu Q&A http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1130905 to try for more feedback.
If it does work then thanks should go to Plopper for his hard work in this and on other Fora. (And apologies for any lost business!)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what you made here is a Y cable.
but i advise that you do solder the wires, this to avoid problems due to the bad contacts.
problems like sparks can do nasty things to any electrical device.
apologies accepted gracefully.
so far 4 have requested a hub, and 1 of those managed to build 1 himself.
thats not enough sadly.
beside that i'm working about 60 hours per week on average, so not much spare time left.
plopper
Thanks Plopper,
you may get more business now that DFT and Cotulla have released USB host for WM6.5
Good to see you back
powered hub for nexus 12v source
Can I pay you to make me a 4 port hub that uses a 12 volt source? I'm working on an auto project integrating a a nexus 7 into my car stereo
plopper said:
Known devices to work which do not supply power to the usb port.
------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------------
HD2
Known devices to work which do supply power to the usb port (you need to skip the power bypase to the phone on these devices).
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
this list will most likely contain tablets.
Known devices which do not work at all.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: I can not find the power path or protection on my hub.
A: Post a high detail closeup of the print of the hub so we can help and draw the path on the photo for you, like in the manual.
But consider the fact that you are getting into a very risky situation, we could be wrong due to a bad picture and you could interpret the photo we draw in a bad way.
I highly recomment that you get help from someone more skilled.
Q: My phone does supply power to the usb port.
A: Do not attach the power cables from the phone usb to the hub, leave it all to the external powersupply.
But remember to tape/isolate the cables to avoid shortings.
Q: I really want to have a hub like this but i'm not capable of building 1.
A: If there is enough demand i'll build a stack of them.
I have no idea how to handle the posting/shipping of this, so if you can help me on this, then don't hesitate to send me a pm.
For now i still won't build any untill i have it all figured out.
Check back here in a couple day's for more info.
Q: When are you gone start building them?
A: Send me a pm where you request for a hub, and I'll inform you on the details.
plopper
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
cms3717 said:
Can I pay you to make me a 4 port hub that uses a 12 volt source? I'm working on an auto project integrating a a nexus 7 into my car stereo
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do it as described in the thread but use the internal power adaptor board of a quality 2A plus rated 12v cigarette to usb charge adaptor to power the hub.
Hello everyone! My name is Patryk Andrzejewski (don't try to read my name if you're not polish), and this is my first thread on XDA.
I am studing electronics on university of technology so i'm pretty well with all kind of electronic stuff.
What i'm trying to do is "x-ray" the usb port in our TG01.
My basic targets is to find way to charge the device while using USB HUB or while listening music. If it's even possible to do.
Right now I know how to connect TG01 to amplifier by 3.5mm plug. Generaly most amplifiers have high impedance input while tg01 expect low impedance earphones to switch usb port to audio output. So what we need to do is take two resistors with the same resistance around 10k Ohm and connect them both between ground and both signal channels in male 3.5mm plug of the amplifier. This should do the trick. You can experiment with resistance but it should be as high as possible to not interfere in sound quality, but if it be to big output won't swich or sound would chop on high volume.
Basic usb cable have four wires plus ground. While micro usb plug have five pins. This extra pin is used to tell device what cable is connected, hub earphones charger or pc. It can be done by two ways, in each cable this extra pin is shorted to diferent other pins. Or it's connected by resistor to ground or Vcc.
What i need to do is determine how it is in our devices and if it would be done make a cable what will allow to charge while using usb to other purposes.
I can also help with porting microusb-3.5mm cables from other devices to TG01, just what i need is this cable, it's schematic, connection route with insides picture or small donation to buy it for tests.
Or eventualy I can make solution how to do it yourself.
Right now I waiting for a pack with new empty microusb male and female plugs to do some tests.
If someone have some experience with this please share.
Also it would be great if someone will port me on to usb switch driver.
Feel free to talk to me on priv.
Thread will be updated...
Hi @patryk,
Welcome to the TG01 Forum.... especially on this particular topic - if you can find a way to get multiple function via the uUSB port simultaneously, that will be great
There have been various attempts at this before, but in practice the only route seems to be using Bluetoth for audio while either charging or using the port in host mode.
I did a piece on Brighthand a while ago on connecting an external hard drive; there have also been discussions on MoDaCo and later on XDA (down the Accessories thread.... one is here and I think there may be some earlier than that). There is a link in the XDA post to a Freescale Smiconductor chip schematic. This is supposed to be able to (externally) support multi-function usage - ntended to be used by 3rd Party manufacturers in eg. a car kit, but as yet I am not aware of any such accessories having been released. If/when available would be suitable for any of the modern crop of uUSB based evices, though I think many car makers have opted for Bluetooth connectivity instead of the older style fixed car kits with cables.
Acording to pdf from your link I'm right, its all about one resistor. It's entire possibly to do this.
Tomorrow morning tests...
Thanks
oh I cant wait so:
rid_f: >220 kOhms
rid_a: 122-126 kOhms <-- this is what we're interest in
rid_b: 67-69 kOhms
rid_c: 36-37 kOhms
rid_g: 1 kOhm
These res val has small tolerance and ar not typical.
rid_a resistance is used to switch to charge device from charger and use usb for earphones or hub!
earphones - yes, but headset - not sure I must check first where mic is connected
here it is Dummy cable schematic:
Here are some related illustrations:
Schematic of the uUSB standard audio accessory control:
View attachment 505996
Picture of the supplied Toshiba earphone adaptor pcb:
View attachment 505997
The mic is connected to pins 1 and 2 (White and bare Cu)
I have made up several 3.5mm audio adapters using Neutrik 3.5mm jacks with 10k resistors fitted from D+ and D- to 0V common:
View attachment 506008
This ensures it will switch to audio out when connecting to external speakers with or without a ground-loop isolator transformer where typically the external device will have too low an impedance for the TG01 to recognise.
Shorting out D+ (Pin 2) and D- (Pin 3) causes the TG01 to go into Charging mode.
An R from ID (Pin 4) to 0V (Pin 5) causes the TG01 to go into Host mode.
I check all of these Rid's and it seems they don't work on Tg01. No matter how i try there is working only charging or earphones never both same time.
As you say device can be forced to charge when resistor < 200 ohm is connected between D+ and D- and they are floating.
There also must be other way to do this by the driver of usb charging becouse pc link charges only when TG is on.
In TG mic an switch of headset are connected to ID pin. So this first schematic of yours is about Toshiba accesory ?
Technicaly charging while using audio out is possible becouse VBUS pin is free in headset.
I'll do some other tests tomorrow..
Hi!
Any news since February?
I will find answers on many questions by reading this document
djtonka said:
I will find answer on many question by reading this document
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is a good document, but iunfortunately leaves many questions unanswerable.
In Section 6.4 it shows a schematic of an Accessory Charger Adapter which is essentially what we need to achieve simultaneous charging and audio out (or other functions). It does not however give enough detail to implement. I have previously identified a Freescale chip which has been designe dto do this job, but hae been unable to identify any source from which to obtain one. In essence this is aimed at the peripheral manufacturers' -who might wish to design and market eg. a hands free car kit to which you could connect a microUSB On The Go spec device. However so far as I can discover there are no manufactureres who have as yet brought any related device to market. If anyone happens to have found anything somewhere across the globe - please shout !
Regards,
Kevin
So, I purchases a USB OTG cable in an attempt to try and expand the functionality of Webtop while using Nebtop. I've been unable to get any response from the phone when I plug in this cable. I've tried my wireless Logitech mouse and keyboard that worked off the bat with my TF101 using the Unifying remote they came with as well as an external TB drive.
Has anyone else had any experience with this? It seems logical that the phone supports host mode since the actual dock has 3 full sized USB ports.
All the information pertaining to this sort of thing I've come up with seems extremely phone specific but if there's a simple solution I'm missing thanks all the more.
ri4naire said:
So, I purchases a USB OTG cable in an attempt to try and expand the functionality of Webtop while using Nebtop. I've been unable to get any response from the phone when I plug in this cable. I've tried my wireless Logitech mouse and keyboard that worked off the bat with my TF101 using the Unifying remote they came with as well as an external TB drive.
Has anyone else had any experience with this? It seems logical that the phone supports host mode since the actual dock has 3 full sized USB ports.
All the information pertaining to this sort of thing I've come up with seems extremely phone specific but if there's a simple solution I'm missing thanks all the more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem actually lies in the usb port of the phone itself. The dock was designed for this purpose, and the dock app handles most that for you, the one thing that the dock is able to do that a straight USB cable can't do, is provide enough "bus" power to use a mouse or even a USB stick directly from the phone. If you want to use a Mouse you will need to get a dock. I got mine directly from wireless.att.com, and it was only $49.00 back in Nov. when I got it. It works VERY well with webtop.
P.S. Motorola is very famous for doing things like this to force you into a dock, or to lock out certain features that everyone really wants to use.
I made my own dock by using a powered usb hub I had sitting around (it was actually the one that came with Rock Band for my Xbox 360). I did have to modify it slightly so that the 1 pin was powered from the 5V (a simple shunt from the 5V inner pin of the power supply solder joint to the solder joint of the 1 pin worked fine--although it might be wise to insert an inline fuse since it also charges your phone while plugged in).
Otherwise, the only other thing needed is coming in the form of your otg adapter that should short the 5 pin (common) with your 4 pin (ID). I did this by cracking open an extra micro usb cable and soldering a wire between the two.
So, my setup was like this:
1. Modified usb cable to short the 4 & 5 pins to let the phone know to go into host
2. Use a female A-female A usb coupler to join the usb cable to the powered hub (I got mine here from Monoprice
3. Get 5V to the 1 pin in the usb hub to provide power to your phone and for whatever is plugged into the hub.
With this, I was easily able to run a usb mouse and a wireless keyboard that had a usb dongle. Paired with a micro hdmi cable to hdmi-dvi adapter, I am able to use my office monitor and the webtop linux. I honestly haven't really used it much yet (if I found it really useful, I probably would have just paid for the dock).
The obvious easy way is to just get the dock. However, I really like being able to do this on my own and since I had this stuff already laying around. Also, the cheap prices from monoprice (I actually made $4 off of the purchase from a PayPal bill-me-later promotion).
So, you should be able to get it to work if you get power to the bus on your usb (but again, it might be safe to pass an appropriate fast-acting fuse, ferrite core, or something to protect from surges). I haven't had issue yet, but I also don't use it often...yet .
It sounds like a bit of yes and a bit of no. The OTG cable I got is microUSB to female full USB, am I going to need to modify this cable as you've described by crossing the 4th and 5th pins?
I'm thinking about ordering this "7 Port USB Squid Hub" since it has the 5v power adapter, do you think it might work?
Just one more question and thanks for all the help but should I not see any response from the phone when I plug in the cable? I read through some of the reviews for cheap cables on Amazon and apparently sometimes they're just useless.
ri4naire said:
It sounds like a bit of yes and a bit of no. The OTG cable I got is microUSB to female full USB, am I going to need to modify this cable as you've described by crossing the 4th and 5th pins?
I'm thinking about ordering this "7 Port USB Squid Hub" since it has the 5v power adapter, do you think it might work?
Just one more question and thanks for all the help but should I not see any response from the phone when I plug in the cable? I read through some of the reviews for cheap cables on Amazon and apparently sometimes they're just useless.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The OTG cable have should work. The OTG cable, to my knowledge, should already have pins 4 & 5 shorted together. I'm not completely certain, but if it's designed as an OTG, it would probably already have that done. If you have an ohmmeter/multimeter, you could try to check (it's hard to isolate the small pins, but you can try). If it's already going to the USB female (type A), you will then be able to directly attach your hub when you get it (without the need of the coupler I had to get).
When I used mine, there was no notification that said "Hey, I'm in USB Host Mode!". However, if you successfully have a mouse attached, you'll see a mouse cursor arrow on your screen.
Have fun with it and if you can't get it to work, let me know and I'll try to explain with even more detail (perhaps with some pretty pictures) of what I did. I more or less went off of what I could glean from reading what others did.
It works great! Also, it is weird to see the mouse on this little a screen, it seems oversized.
I just plugged everything in and it worked off the bat. I'm using just two items from Amazon I got for under 12 bucks (plus, of course, the keyboard and mouse I already had for my computer). I don' think I can post links to the forums yet but the ASINs for the items if people want to do this on the super cheap are as follows:
B0043TBCDS 7 Port USB Squid Hub, a whopping $5.19
B005N55WHI Micro-B USB OTG Cable... $5.99
I chose these because of their Prime eligibility and also for their form factor so as not to cover the HDMI port, I bet it's not impossible to get these even cheaper.
While this isn't technically a replacement for the dock since I had to root the device and I have to press "Load" in Nebtop if I want to go to Webtop I'm extremely pleased with the results.
I also love that all the soft keys are available. The ones I've discovered are that right button on the mouse as well as Esc are Back, the Home key is Home, clicking the wheel as well as Ctrl, Cmd, Alt and a whole slew of others bring up the Menu, but all I can find is F5 for Search.
On another note, while the phone does charge when hooked up, a practical boon, the screen still times out despite having the "Stay awake" feature checked. This is annonying when the phone is on it's side accross the room and I have to squint to see the cursor and swipe it unlocked sideways as well as click back into Mirror Display.
Hi all,
I am trying to mod my old tf300t and keyboard dock into a dex dock for my note 9. Im not worried about the tablet portion as i can get a lcd controller for the panel. However ive been soldering and desoldering for the last 3 days. I am trying to leverage the docks kb controller and add a usb connection or modify the dock port into a usb.
I have looked at the various pinouts but cannot get the keyboard working.
I dont care about audio or sd card or the extra usb port.
Any help or pointers would be great.
Here is a mockup of the pinouts i have soldered based on the pinouts i found
Ive been trying to test it on an old s7edge incase i wire something wrong. It detects a regular keyboard but when i try this nothing...if i use the wall charger i see that the dock is charging but still nothing at the dock connector. Ive been trying with a usb 2.0 cable. Connected to the d+ d- vcc ( all 3) and multiple grounds and i pinned the sense pin to ground as well.
I have also tried to open the charge cable and solder the usb to the data pins on that both with and without ground. And use a 5v plug and the original asus plug.
The dock port is basically garbage at this point so if i plan to use that i need to use the 2 20 wire connectors and map the individual wires .
I have managed to get the s7edge to detect that something is connected. However i then resoldered the pins to try more as it wasnt working. So i need to go back to the beginning to try again. I believe my issue was due to the otg aspect of the usb. Im using an adapter for the phone but i also tried to wire the connector the same way. Ill take some pictures of it later if i can get it working
So not sure if anyone is following this thread but i have made progress.
I have totally butchered the original 40 pin connector and now am tapping into the 40 individual wires that connect the main board to the connector pcb. I can get my s7edge to detect that the usb connector is attached but it keeps telling me that a high power usb device is attached and that it needs an external power source.... so today i busted out the multimeter and i believe i connected one of the usb host vcc connections to the other vcc connections so i separated this. I also believe that the s7edge has some usbotg voltage issues so im going to test it with an old macbook pro with windows to see what it picks it up as. When i get some more time i will try to trace the other wires there might be something else needed
Maybe
Nice job, I'm not particularly knowlegdable in electronics but I remember there is a battery portion in the dock? Maybe it causes some error during otg?