Database Info

esn change legality?

Everybody says changing esn is illegal.
1. Does anybody know anybody who got in trouble for changing esn?
2. say i got two devices, if i swap esn's of both of these device. It that illegal ? If yes can anybody point me to the law that states its illegal?
3. I heard some repair centers change esns, are they licensed to do that, do they have any kind of special permit?
thanks

I'm still searching for proof for you at a federal level (I'm 100% sure this is illegal in the USA) but I found something on a state level that shows it.
http://www3.state.id.us/cgi-bin/newidst?sctid=180670013.K
http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/97-98/bill/asm/ab_1101-1150/ab_1127_bill_19970703_amended_sen.html
http://www.romingerlegal.com/new_jersey/appellate/a4869-96.opn.html
http://www.state.co.us/gov_dir/leg_dir/olls/sl1997/sl.194.htm
So what's that now, Idaho, California, New Jersey and Colorado? I think the point's been proven, it is completely illegal to alter your ESN without the consent of the manufacturer of the device.

i read those, it doesn't look like it is illegal if you paid for phone service, and you swap the esn to another device, as long as you discontinue using the first device. it isn't as if you are adding a second line of service for no money, you're just putting it on a new phone.
ehow has a page describing how to do it, in fact. i just googled esn switching, and there it was, seems fairly simple

Black93300ZX said:
I think the point's been proven, it is completely illegal to alter your ESN without the consent of the manufacturer of the device.
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LOL, only avoiding payment is against the law. some banned people nowadays

Hmm
Sorry to resurrect but was researching this myself recently.
The controlling federal law seems to be: http://law.onecle.com/uscode/18/1029.html
HOWever, I think the law is DEFINITELY worded vaguely and/or NOT aimed at the use the OP might have in mind (having two phones around the house instead of one--just like how people like to have have 2 landline extensions in a single dwelling).
My apologies if this kind of conversation is frowned upon/not allowed. A warning by any senior member/mod and I'll be sure to not pursue this any further on XDA.
Thanks!
Panamaniac

It's a great way to trick phone company's into giving you cheaper internet plans if you switch the esn from a dumb phone to a smart phone.
That being said don't do it its not worth the trouble you could get into
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App

thenotoriouspie said:
It's a great way to trick phone company's into giving you cheaper internet plans if you switch the esn from a dumb phone to a smart phone.
That being said don't do it its not worth the trouble you could get into
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
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Not in every case. Like maybe if you want to use the smartphone without paying for data service (because you don't want data service).
See, with GSM carriers, they can see what phone you're using IF it's in their database. And the phone will only be in their database IF and ONLY IF it is branded by them. So if I'm on T-Mobile and I pop my SIM card into an unlocked AT&T phone/totally unbranded straight-from-manufacturer phone, they don't see what phone I'm using. Want proof? Do that and log in to your account online. Normally, the website will tell you what phone you're using. Instead, this time it'll show you a generic icon/question mark. So if you want to use an iPhone on T-Mobile without a data plan, you can do that. If you want to use a Blackberry on AT&T without a data plan? Also not a problem. As long as they don't know you're using a smartphone, a data plan won't automatically be forced onto your account. GSM gives you choice and freedom.
With CDMA carriers, we have to go through great lengths just so that we can use the phone we want, or just so that we can use a phone we already paid for. If I'm on Verizon with a Blackberry Bold and I want to jump on Sprint, why should I have to pay for the same exact phone AGAIN? It's really not hard to reprovision a CDMA phone to work on another carrier. All you need to do is install the right APN and MMS settings and the carrier's PRL. Then just flash the carrier's ROM onto the phone (I'm simplifying it; it varies by phone).
CHANGING, NOT CLONING, ESNs is ok. It's the equivalent of swapping SIM cards. In the US, the only national CDMA carrier that offers less-than-unlimited plans is Verizon. So what if I want to use my Blackberry Bold with a 150MB data plan? Is that really a crime? I can STILL opt for the unlimited, even if I put a dumbphone's ESN on the Blackberry. Why am I forced to have these plan options on my account? Why can we bring our own phones with GSM carriers, but not CDMA carriers? It IS possible for GSM carriers to block phones not sold from their network from getting service. All they would have to do is block the IMEI numbers not from phones they've sold. But they don't do this. Why can't CDMA carriers just activate these phones? MetroPCS does it in some locations, officially (aka MetroFlash). They warn you that only Calls and SMS will work, but that's fixable on your own, AND you're able to use your own phone from any carrier.
CDMA carriers need to start activating off-network phones. It's just not fair, especially when many of the phones are the same on both networks.

Product F(RED) said:
CDMA carriers need to start activating off-network phones. It's just not fair, especially when many of the phones are the same on both networks.
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Wow. It does not work this way over there in US? You can use whatever CDMA device here, you just tell the ESN to the carrier so that it gets activated on their network. You guys are weird there.

Money hungry politicians and corporations.
however I have yet to see a court case setting precedence. Until that day, I will consider ESN repair and or swapping a completely legitimate practice.

Well ESN swaps are one thing--but what I'd really like is to clone onto an old handset simply so I can have TWO IN THE HOUSE--nothing illicit here, it's just a pain in the ass to have to go find the thing, since I don't own a landline. In that connection, people have multiple receivers on landlines for this very purpose--because cell phones work great as cell phones, but not so great as HOUSE phones....
But given the 10-year prison sentence (though I don't think I'd be prosecuted) methinks I'll steer clear of actually trying to clone...

People tend to make the VIN comparison.
Although you CAN (and I have) apply for a new vin in certain circumstances.
It's like wanting to have multiple honda accords with the same vin.
Even if you don't want to defraud an insurance company, you technically could if you wrecked one.
Now, though I agree with you and thing you SHOULD be able to clone your own esn. The FCC is very clear about cloneing.
What they aren't clear about is swapping without cloning.
The bulk of the argument resides around the words "intent to defraud"

willpower102 said:
Money hungry politicians and corporations.
however I have yet to see a court case setting precedence. Until that day, I will consider ESN repair and or swapping a completely legitimate practice.
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http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2008/06/carterfone-40-years.ars
Happy reading.
(If you want the actual decision, then here you are: http://www.uiowa.edu/~cyberlaw/FCCOps/1968/13F2-420.html)
Old? You bet. Applicable? I'd argue it

Product F(RED) said:
Not in every case. Like maybe if you want to use the smartphone without paying for data service (because you don't want data service).
See, with GSM carriers, they can see what phone you're using IF it's in their database. And the phone will only be in their database IF and ONLY IF it is branded by them. So if I'm on T-Mobile and I pop my SIM card into an unlocked AT&T phone/totally unbranded straight-from-manufacturer phone, they don't see what phone I'm using. Want proof? Do that and log in to your account online. Normally, the website will tell you what phone you're using. Instead, this time it'll show you a generic icon/question mark. So if you want to use an iPhone on T-Mobile without a data plan, you can do that. If you want to use a Blackberry on AT&T without a data plan? Also not a problem. As long as they don't know you're using a smartphone, a data plan won't automatically be forced onto your account. GSM gives you choice and freedom.
With CDMA carriers, we have to go through great lengths just so that we can use the phone we want, or just so that we can use a phone we already paid for. If I'm on Verizon with a Blackberry Bold and I want to jump on Sprint, why should I have to pay for the same exact phone AGAIN? It's really not hard to reprovision a CDMA phone to work on another carrier. All you need to do is install the right APN and MMS settings and the carrier's PRL. Then just flash the carrier's ROM onto the phone (I'm simplifying it; it varies by phone).
CHANGING, NOT CLONING, ESNs is ok. It's the equivalent of swapping SIM cards. In the US, the only national CDMA carrier that offers less-than-unlimited plans is Verizon. So what if I want to use my Blackberry Bold with a 150MB data plan? Is that really a crime? I can STILL opt for the unlimited, even if I put a dumbphone's ESN on the Blackberry. Why am I forced to have these plan options on my account? Why can we bring our own phones with GSM carriers, but not CDMA carriers? It IS possible for GSM carriers to block phones not sold from their network from getting service. All they would have to do is block the IMEI numbers not from phones they've sold. But they don't do this. Why can't CDMA carriers just activate these phones? MetroPCS does it in some locations, officially (aka MetroFlash). They warn you that only Calls and SMS will work, but that's fixable on your own, AND you're able to use your own phone from any carrier.
CDMA carriers need to start activating off-network phones. It's just not fair, especially when many of the phones are the same on both networks.
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Maybe with Verizon but try to do that with sprint and see what happens if you get caught.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App

Haha, bad news I'm guessing!
It's ok, I just scored a free Airave anyway (which is apparently immediately eligible for a $150 discount on an "upgrade" to a phone?!? Lolz).

SoberGuy said:
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2008/06/carterfone-40-years.ars
Happy reading.
(If you want the actual decision, then here you are: http://www.uiowa.edu/~cyberlaw/FCCOps/1968/13F2-420.html)
Old? You bet. Applicable? I'd argue it
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Thanks! This is not what I was expecting... In fact this gives even more credence to the practice.
If I had enough money, I would try to indite myself just to fight it. But I don't have the sort of money to fight that legal battle.

willpower102 said:
Thanks! This is not what I was expecting... In fact this gives even more credence to the practice.
If I had enough money, I would try to indite myself just to fight it. But I don't have the sort of money to fight that legal battle.
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I think from that perspective it's a losing battle. Saying "Judge, the big TelCo is doing something illegal, so I had to do something the FCC deems illegal" is not exactly the best idea. Having that same TelCo refuse you service with a different phone, being forced to buy one of theirs, and then suing them to recover the costs....different story all together.
I'm really, really surprised that this hasn't been challenged at all. I came across that Carterfone decision several years ago (most likely by chance) and immediately thought of the CDMA carriers here. But, I rock GSM, so it doesn't matter too much to me

T-Mobile offers phones without data plans
I recently purchased a Samsung Vibrant on craigslist walked into a T-Mobile store bought a sim card, signed up for a month to month plan for $29.00 and have a smart phone with out paying for data or texting. I wish the other carriers were decent enough to allow this. What scares me most about the T-mobile and Att Merger talk is this consumer friendly company may be shut down.

It's interesting because the federal statutes (i.e., passed by Congress) are vague enough for wiggle room, but the FCC regulations don't seem to be. Following the Chevron decision, courts would be very likely to give the FCC reading of the federal statute deference---i.e., you'd likely lose the case and spend 10 years in jail (IF prosecution ever happened, which for the private in-home purposes of cloning I've been discussing is IMHO a big IF).

panamaniac said:
It's interesting because the federal statutes (i.e., passed by Congress) are vague enough for wiggle room, but the FCC regulations don't seem to be. Following the Chevron decision, courts would be very likely to give the FCC reading of the federal statute deference---i.e., you'd likely lose the case and spend 10 years in jail (IF prosecution ever happened, which for the private in-home purposes of cloning I've been discussing is IMHO a big IF).
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Chevron implements a two-step analysis. Neither, in this scenario, would allow for deference to the FCC on the SOLE issue of a CDMA carrier refusing to activate a CDMA device not purchased from said carrier. Would deference be given to changing or cloning ESNs? Quite possibly, but if the case even remotely touched on the aforementioned "ban", the court would address that matter in favor of the consumer.

For the last time, we're talking about
SWAPPING

What do you guys think of the AT&T/Tmobile Merger?

Do you guys think AT&T and Tmobile Merger will get approved by the Senate?

F***!!!!!! ATT

I will be moving to Sprint if this does go through... I left ATT for a reason...

I will be gone the day my grandfathered plan expires. I refuse to pay $100 more a month for less services. Why would any sane person do that?
I guess it will be back to sprint....

If it goes through im going back to sprint or boost, I refuse to pay att for any media services

Didn't ATT announce that existing T-Mobile customers will be able to keep their existing plans for as long as they want and still benefit from ATT's network and phone selection?
Pretty sure I read that this is a big point they will be making in front of the Senate.

Unless you want to upgrade your phone ever.
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App

Yeah what he said... if the merger means there will still be 2 companies, I'm down. But when has that ever happened. I been with tmo before they were tmo
... remember voicestream ? Once att gobles up tmo say buh by to decent customer service and decent rates... if I can't keep my plan indefinitely ... ill be heading to Verizon. **** sprint.
"If Satan lived in heaven he'd be me.... "

Senate has nothing to say - FTC and Justice department. And even if they disapprove, Courts could can overturn ruling - they have done so with other anti-competitive mergers.

Hate ATT customer service!!! Do not want the merger to take place any time soon or ever! 100% against it!!!!

I will leave if it gets approved.

I liked AT&T. I left AT&T because even with full bars at my house, you can't make a call. Even if you can, the call would be dropped before you can finish it.
My GF has AT&T and her phone does the same thing. My neighbors have AT&T and they do they same thing. Even friends on AT&T that visit my house say the same thing.
The sad part is that it isn't just at my house, it's everywhere. Tmobile may not have great service everywhere, but it works where it should and I hardly get disconnected.
I don't mind AT&T because I travel across the US and I found that AT&T pretty much covers me better then Tmobile and they have pretty decent 3G coverage even between cities where Tmobile is GPRS only (not even EDGE).
My feelings toward the merger can go 2 ways:
First, I would not mind AT&T so much IF/WHEN they merge, they allow AT&T customers to use the great Tmobile signal found at my house... or keep the companies separate but allow access to all the GSM signals. Basically the best of both worlds. Like having access to both Tmobile and AT&T networks.
Second, they bring over the Even More Plus plans where you can have your own device and have a lower monthly bill, which makes sense. A part of the monthly bill pays for the big discounts you get off the phones you buy them on contract. If you don't buy their equipment, why would anyone be forced to pay for a discount they never got? I really like the EMP plans and I think they are awesome.
Lastly, they don't rape my bill. $30 a month for internet is INSANE!!!! Plus don't advertise $79 a month plans* (*requires a $30 data plan). WTF is that? It a plan REQUIRES something, then it should all be included in the price. The math should be $109 a month, which is too damn expensive.
I'm actually really happy with $59 1000 minutes unlimited everything else (less a 5gb cap).
That is reasonable and a good deal.

Will switch to VZW if merger happened.

mightywonton said:
Do you guys think AT&T and Tmobile Merger will get approved by the Senate?
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The Senate doesn't approve or disapprove the sale. The FCC and the DOJ have the power in this. One of the closing off the cuff comments from one of the Senators was that he figured the sale would be approved with stipulations as has been speculated all along. We are not many years from a two carrier system...Sprint will never survive against the two behemoths.

I just read a cent article saying its gonna take up to 12 months to evaluate the deal and most of the senate is against it so I doubt it will be approved. If it gets approved that means that there will only be one GSM carrier in the US and consumers will not have a choice but to go with ATT if they want GSM so I dont see how the FCC will approve that.

maciek82 said:
Didn't ATT announce that existing T-Mobile customers will be able to keep their existing plans for as long as they want and still benefit from ATT's network and phone selection?
Pretty sure I read that this is a big point they will be making in front of the Senate.
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They are playing nice right now because they are trying to get the deal approved. Do you think that the deal would get approved if ATT was out right saying they were going raise the rates on 50 million ppl? Probably not.
In turn if you own a company and you had 50 million ppl you could raise the rates up 20+ dollars why wouldn't you? Its all about the $$$$$$$$

johnnyp500 said:
I just read a cent article saying its gonna take up to 12 months to evaluate the deal and most of the senate is against it so I doubt it will be approved. If it gets approved that means that there will only be one GSM carrier in the US and consumers will not have a choice but to go with ATT if they want GSM so I dont see how the FCC will approve that.
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Again, the Senate doesn't matter in the big scheme of things. And the same folks that will decide this sale approved the XM-Sirius merger which resulted in ONE satelite radio provider.
The vast majority of folks could care less if they have GSM or CDMA or TDMA or ABCD or whatever...they want good signal with cheap prices.

I hate to see it and say it, and it will probably take a while, but its going to get approved. AT&T will probably have to make some concessions, but in the end it will go through.

bluemoon737 said:
Again, the Senate doesn't matter in the big scheme of things. And the same folks that will decide this sale approved the XM-Sirius merger which resulted in ONE satelite radio provider.
The vast majority of folks could care less if they have GSM or CDMA or TDMA or ABCD or whatever...they want good signal with cheap prices.
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cent = cnet
Im sorry but I disagree with you. Those who travel internationally and use different sim cards in different countries want a global phone and want to choose a gsm network. There are many people like that and it is only fair that they have a choice between at least 2 carriers

jcbofkc said:
I will be gone the day my grandfathered plan expires. I refuse to pay $100 more a month for less services. Why would any sane person do that?
I guess it will be back to sprint....
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+1
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA Premium App

[Q] How To End Tmobile Contract?

Any lawyers out there? (It's a joke)((unless you're a lawyer))
So the other day I moved to a new area. With that came dropped calls, data speeds of 42 KBs(dial up anyone), and the kicker for me getting ATTs network more often then my own. I've been on the phone a lot with CSR's and you guessed it my call was dropped.
So is there an easy way I can extract my call log to prove this? I just want what I paid for and this isn't it. Not a Tbolile hater as I've been with them for over seven years. Just really frustrated with there level of service in my new area.
And to all that follow with:
1) You signed a contract deal with it?
2) Tmobile rocks!
Leave the thread as is!
I for once just need some help(ie extracting call logs)

Are you just trying to terminate the contract, or are you trying to terminate it without paying the fee? I believe it's up to $200 per line... I forgot.
Maybe you can try talking to a customer representative and explain your situation? T-Mobile is very understanding most of the time.

Tmobile for the past six years has done well by me. No problem relating a problem to CSR. Now a huge problem just to get let out of a contract that they are not honoring(ie dropped calls and sloWWWW data speeds). Change in company policy or change in consumer demand?
I think with a merger coming they just don't give a ****.
So if you look at the OP and can help me isolate the call logs let me know
Thanks

hechoen said:
Tmobile for the past six years has done well by me. No problem relating a problem to CSR. Now a huge problem just to get let out of a contract that they are not honoring(ie dropped calls and sloWWWW data speeds). Change in company policy or change in consumer demand?
I think with a merger coming they just don't give a ****.
So if you look at the OP and can help me isolate the call logs let me know
Thanks
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Im sure does idiots wil make you pay honeatly!
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA App

daxecutioner24 said:
Im sure does idiots wil make you pay honeatly!
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA App
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Not idiots more like automatons. Hours of costumer care = no ability to provide a signed contract. "Sorry sir we can't email you that signed copy of contract"
Me "Why?"
CSR "We have no ability to email"
Me "Why?"
CSR "You signed your contract in a store we have no record of it"
Me "Why?"
CSR "insert automaton response here"

Lol pathetic..yea most of them are program like that..as if they are getting paid six figures by Tmobile!
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA App

If there's a local T-Mobile store, maybe you can go to them and prove the poor service that you're getting. I'm sure you'll get better responses and help with someone who's probably not a robot, lol. Try to have them help you with actually calling customer service and cancelling your contract without fees.
I can't really tell you about the call logs, but maybe you can prove the poor speeds by running speed tests. Be sure to run them at different times to show that it's not your phone, but your lack of service at your new location.
Of course, all of this can only work if there is actually a T-Mobile store really close by.

bkoon1218 said:
If there's a local T-Mobile store, maybe you can go to them and prove the poor service that you're getting. I'm sure you'll get better responses and help with someone who's probably not a robot, lol. Try to have them help you with actually calling customer service and cancelling your contract without fees.
I can't really tell you about the call logs, but maybe you can prove the poor speeds by running speed tests. Be sure to run them at different times to show that it's not your phone, but your lack of service at your new location.
Of course, all of this can only work if there is actually a T-Mobile store really close by.
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call tmobile from a landline not your cellphone
ask to be transfered to retention.. explain to them the issues you are having and tell them the phone does not work in your area. By tyhe way you dont need to icolate the call logs there system flags dropped calles for them.. So they can see how many dropped calls u have. Anyways there about the only ones that can let you out of your contract without paying the termintaion fee. Fyi it is possable to get out of your agreement without the termination fee if you can prove that the service they are providing does not work in your area.. THere is a clause for that..

raver thanks for the tip.
I'll try and see what happens. Is retention the same as costumer loyalty? cause those guys have not been that helpful about my issues.
It sucks cause I really like this phone just want a different carrier at this point.

no theres a retention department if u call and talk to cancellations.. there the last line of defense for them to try n keep you as a customer in your case since you dont have service were u live there the only ones that can let you out of your contract without etf..

No dice. Ten minutes on the phone and quote "It says in our terms and agreements that we don't provide coverage in all area so there is no way to release you from contract without ETF's"
Anyone wanna call them and tell them I'm dead?
Anyway thanks for the help and your roms do kick ass.

Just because there's a clause doesn't mean they will honor it..at the end of the day their contract are probably a thousand pages long..so they will find something to screw you over..kinda like college and the stupid fees they bring out of nowherr!
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA App

At least stupid college fees get you some type of education all this is doing is pissing me off. There Terms and agreements are long and involved(not quite 1000 pages but close).
Actually maybe I did get some education out of this. NEVER sign a contract with a wireless carrier. It will only end up costing me the ETF. On that note let this thread die.

Your SOL regardless of coverage l.. or lack there of
NEW ATT-esque policies. They have your signed contract filed away somewhere
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA App

ya with the att merger ya u are prob sol... id just pay the etf honestly if u can afford it...

Haha yea just pay the fee and dont deal with wireless carriers again!,good luck!
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA App

Almost a month to the day of this post I am out of my tmobile contract. It only took being on the phone with 611 for about an hour every other day. So Fuc? You Tmobile. Sorry had to get that out. I hope the rest of you have an amazing experience with them. RANT OVER

hechoen said:
Almost a month to the day of this post I am out of my tmobile contract. It only took being on the phone with 611 for about an hour every other day. So Fuc? You Tmobile. Sorry had to get that out. I hope the rest of you have an amazing experience with them. RANT OVER
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Congrats on getting out of the contract! That was an exception to many rules and someone will probably get spoken to about it. No carrier (to my knowledge) will let you out of your contract without etf because you moved out of their coverage area, by policy. And on top of that, your contract generally includes mandatory arbitration (meaning its very difficult to take them to court, not that doing so would save you money...)
For anyone that may have a problem like this in the future, your best shot is to use your phone while roaming in one area, to make that look like the place you use it the most, more than you do while not roaming (check to make sure your carrier wont charge you roaming before doing this) for a couple of months. This costs your carrier and they will generally terminate your service without fees, or your consent for that matter, or at the very least gives you better ammo when you call. I know tmo and vzw do this, as do most other carriers that allow free domestic roaming.
On a side note, loyalty and retentions are the same department. Loyalty is the name used with customers because its a friendlier term, retentions is used internally because it a is more accurate description since you don't talk to them for being loyal. If you need to talk to them just call 611 and enter your phone number when asked to do so then say you want to cancel service, it'll take you right there (you learn some tricks when you work at a T-Mobile call center... lol)
Sent from my V6 Supercharged GSB Eris

csstone
I'm in there coverage area which was how I was able to get out of contract. Bad tower bad signal and the kicker is I get ATT on MY phone. Service request twice. One trouble ticket and one good CSR. Bamn no more tmobile. I will be keeping the phone though. And they were nice enough to unlock it for me!

Wasn't there a lawsuit sometime ago where they can't force you to stay in a contract if you move to a new location that they don't cover?

If Sprint buys T-Mobile?

Will the simcard I got from T-mobile eventually start working off sprint cell towers as well a T-mobile ones? Will I start getting spark data access? Will my "no contract" T-mobile phone suddenly need a sprint contract? All random items to wonder about .

I highly doubt that. Think of the T-Mobile and MetroPCS merger. It took a very long time and their still separate companies here just running off the same network.
Anyways I sincerely hope that Sprint doesn't send an offer to T-Mobile that makes them sell it off. Sprint is horrible.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Claghorn said:
Will the simcard I got from T-mobile eventually start working off sprint cell towers as well a T-mobile ones? Will I start getting spark data access? Will my "no contract" T-mobile phone suddenly need a sprint contract? All random items to wonder about .
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no. nothing will change if the buyout happens.
i honestly doubt the FCC/FTC will allow it to happen anyways. they shutdown the att/tmobile deal.

GSM vs CDMA makes very strange bed fellows...

When, and if they announce the merger, I think there will be a huge public opposition as what happened in the failed AT&T - T Mobile merger, and hopefully the US government will once again help protecting US consumer's interest.

Zepius said:
no. nothing will change if the buyout happens.
i honestly doubt the FCC/FTC will allow it to happen anyways. they shutdown the att/tmobile deal.
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Lol... Here is the thing. The guy Obama appointed to run the FCC now, well, he was the BIGGEST telco lobbyist. Yes, that is right. The person in charge of the FCC & protecting your interest, was the guy that tried to get legislation passed that would allow these companies to once again become monopolies. This is the same FCC that has been utterly spineless in regards to the open internet, aka net neutrality laws.
For a better idea of who this guy is & exactly what these companies are trying to do to both mobile & wired broadband, watch this hilarious video:
Then head on over to here: http://www.fcc.gov/comments & let the FCC know what you think on the proposals out for public comment.

[b] new m8! can i bolt to t-mobile wo being blacklisted??[/b]

I just used my upgrade to get a vzw m8 with the intention of selling it, then bolting to tmobile. I plan to be on the hook for my etf for 350, which I expect tmobile to eventually pay in 8 to 12 weeks.... Will my m8 get BLACKLISTED if I try this? I would assume not. My thinking is that's what the ETF is covering... Am I correct? I don't wanna sell a phone that has been blacklisted. Thanks

ebuechler3 said:
I just used my upgrade to get a vzw m8 with the intention of selling it, then bolting to tmobile. I plan to be on the hook for my etf for 350, which I expect tmobile to eventually pay in 8 to 12 weeks.... Will my m8 get BLACKLISTED if I try this? I would assume not. My thinking is that's what the ETF is covering... Am I correct? I don't wanna sell a phone that has been blacklisted. Thanks
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You should be good. I have sold phones purchased at on contract prices prior to my contract being up and had no issues.

I have 2 lines of service that I'm terminating and was gonna pay $100 a month until etf is paid by tmobile... Hopefully that will keep my phone's from being blacklisted!!

I thought when tmobile or even sprint now for that matter, dont they make you turn in your phone from your old carrier ? I assumed that was the case, so they can sell off your old phone to pay towards your old carriers etf they are paying off ? Am I wrong here because it makes sense that you would have to turn your phone in to them in the deal ?

The ESN will only be blacklisted if it is reported to be stolen or lost.
Some companies will not accept other companies' ESN (like Sprint and Verizon,) but with advance of LTE sim cards, this might be a moot point.
In any case, there's no reason why someone else cannot use your phone, unless you report it lost/stolen.

You have to trade in the m8 to T-Mobile in order for them to pay the etf. Since its brand new, I'd just return it to Verizon and cancel your contract outright. It will save you time and money in the long run.
Sent from my HTC6525LVW using XDA Free mobile app

justin94 said:
You have to trade in the m8 to T-Mobile in order for them to pay the etf. Since its brand new, I'd just return it to Verizon and cancel your contract outright. It will save you time and money in the long run.
Sent from my HTC6525LVW using XDA Free mobile app
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What he said. You can't sell the phone because T-Mobile gets the phone, and you also have to buy one of theirs. Better idea - just stick with Verizon. Everyone's prices are going down these days, Verizon should be next. But even if you just stopped paying Verizon (without covering the ETF), then yes, your phone would get blacklisted. It is not just lost or stolen phones, it's unpaid bills that get your blacklisted too. Source: I deal with this stuff every day.

brandogg said:
What he said. You can't sell the phone because T-Mobile gets the phone, and you also have to buy one of theirs. Better idea - just stick with Verizon. Everyone's prices are going down these days, Verizon should be next. But even if you just stopped paying Verizon (without covering the ETF), then yes, your phone would get blacklisted. It is not just lost or stolen phones, it's unpaid bills that get your blacklisted too. Source: I deal with this stuff every day.
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Are you saying that Verizon will "blacklist" a Verizon ESN phone for not paying Verizon bills?
This is ridiculous.
How do they "blacklist" your sim slot?

nabbed said:
Are you saying that Verizon will "blacklist" a Verizon ESN phone for not paying Verizon bills?
This is ridiculous.
How do they "blacklist" your sim slot?
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Numbers

nabbed said:
Are you saying that Verizon will "blacklist" a Verizon ESN phone for not paying Verizon bills?
This is ridiculous.
How do they "blacklist" your sim slot?
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Are you serious? I don't even know what you're trying to ask about "blacklisting a SIM slot", they blacklist the IMEI of the phone (it doesn't matter if you use your Verizon HTC One M8 on AT&T or T-Mobile - regardless of what SIM is in your SIM slot, your IMEI is the same), which typically all of the major carriers share now. You go to make a call and it says "this phone has been blocked from network usage."

brandogg said:
Are you serious? I don't even know what you're trying to ask about "blacklisting a SIM slot", they blacklist the IMEI of the phone (it doesn't matter if you use your Verizon HTC One M8 on AT&T or T-Mobile - regardless of what SIM is in your SIM slot, your IMEI is the same), which typically all of the major carriers share now. You go to make a call and it says "this phone has been blocked from network usage."
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Are you saying that there's a global database of "blacklisted" phones? Which every carrier now uses? Even gsm carriers, which don't even use ESN?

nabbed said:
Are you saying that there's a global database of "blacklisted" phones? Which every carrier now uses? Even gsm carriers, which don't even use ESN?
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LTE is an evolution of GSM (more or less). LTE phones have an IMEI. Take out your M8 and go to Settings > About > Phone Identity and look at the third line, which is your IMEI (not your ESN), or look at the box and notice that you don't see an ESN (o an MEID), but you do see an IMEI. Then look at the 6th line, which is your ICC ID, AKA your SIM card number. The IMEI does not change (without flashing), no matter which SIM card you put in the phone, and it it what is used to identify your phone.
And yes, there is a global IMEI blacklist, it's even mentioned on the GSMA's website (and Verizon Wireless is a member of GSMA).
http://www.gsma.com/technicalprojects/fraud-security/imei-database

brandogg said:
LTE is an evolution of GSM (more or less). LTE phones have an IMEI. Take out your M8 and go to Settings > About > Phone Identity and look at the third line, which is your IMEI (not your ESN), or look at the box and notice that you don't see an ESN (o an MEID), but you do see an IMEI. Then look at the 6th line, which is your ICC ID, AKA your SIM card number. The IMEI does not change (without flashing), no matter which SIM card you put in the phone, and it it what is used to identify your phone.
And yes, there is a global IMEI blacklist, it's even mentioned on the GSMA's website (and Verizon Wireless is a member of GSMA).
http://www.gsma.com/technicalprojects/fraud-security/imei-database
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Take an lte sim and pop it into a phone that supports it.
Are you saying that sometimes it won't work because a carrier has blacklisted your phone?

I'm saying that in order for T-Mobile to pay your Verizon etf, you need to turn in the eligible device (m8). Without it, they will jot pay the etf. Verizon will also block the phone from being used on any major carrier.
Don't try to cheat this system. It will come back on you.
Sent from my HTC6525LVW using XDA Free mobile app

If verizon blacklists your imei number it wont work for basically any carrier in the USA unless the imei is repaired, but the phone blacklisted in the USA can still be used in other countries as no other countries care about an imei that is blacklisted in the USA.