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I posted this on the galaxy s forums too, but it seems a little dead there.
As seen by the NoLED app over in the (galaxy S) dev section, and in a few other places on the net, people are finding that when they display a black image on their amoled/samoled screens in a dark room there is still light emitted by the display. it is not truly black
I would like to know why!
One thing i hear is about image compression and signal noise causing the pixels to not display #000000 black and instead a variant of black/grey causing the pixel to become lit.
This problem is not an issue during the day, i can't tell the difference when my screen is displaying black or off. but what it does effect is battery life.
If the screen isn't powering down its pixels then it is not saving anywhere near as much power as it could do
Were we cheated of our true black?
My phone has the AMOLED. I did notice that I can see the backlight through a black screen, usually during boot up. It dosent really bother me. I didnt feel cheated or anything like that. The images look fine.
My phone could use better battery management, my MT3g battery spoiled me.
The odd thing is that there is no backlight on OLED displays - the light is produced by each individual pixel. It ought to produce true black as the pixels should be entirely off, producing no light at all.
The problem with your analysis is that your using a third party app to test this,
what if the code is messing with the display ????
best way to test this is to upload a black image onto your phone and keep it on for a few hours , now check if the display is consuming battery in the battery usage screen, report your findings here ?
Btw normal AMOLEDS differ from S-AMOLED , they don't have true black so they need to turn on the pixels in the display to display blacks.
They should be the same actually, same technology powering the pixels, same lack of a backlight.
I did my testing on the galaxy S with its super amoled, showing a true black bmp image and the screen is still lit.
There shouldn't be any reason to turn on pixels to display black - black is the absence of light, so creating light to display black is rather counterintuitive.
Pure blacks can't be expected from an LCD because the pixels have to block the light from the always-on backlight, but they ought to be achievable (as far as ambient lighting conditions permit) from an OLED.
I do wonder if this is something PenTile-related, but considering that's a technology designed for OLEDs, you'd hope not!
The PenTile display, iirc correctly, has a white subpixel. Maybe thats where the light is coming from?
ooo .... ooo .... ooo .... does that mean by default no more BLACK screen of death??
On a serious note, i'd find it odd that a program can screw up showing a black screen. Wasn't it usualy a case of (well in my day anyway!) poking #000000 to the "pixels" address? (or however many 0's you need for a true 16bit display)
it cant be because its a RGBW display because each led can still be turned off. there still is no backlight.
Also i doubt its RGBW, most likely RGBG
android53 said:
Also i doubt its RGBW, most likely RGBG
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Click to collapse
Yeah, pretty sure it's RGBG. RGBW is a different PenTile layout.
omg you all need a life or a star trek convention to go to lol
AndroHero said:
omg you all need a life or a star trek convention to go to lol
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you DO know YOUR on a geeky phone forum, right?
(Sadly though, i think you are correct!)
AndroHero said:
omg you all need a life or a star trek convention to go to lol
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Click to collapse
My life is my phone, and the next StarTrek convention isnt until August 13th in Nj, so until then well debate about screen pixels and how black is black on an AMOLED.
Are you guys using true black? In CMKY terms true black is not 100 100 100 100, or RGB terms 0 0 0. That means 100% color of each of the 3/4 colors. In the printing industry if someone chooses black like this from the color pattern it comes out as greyish black in print.
Heres a good artcle that should help you guys make a true black image in photoshop.
http://www.andrewkelsall.com/the-professional-designers-guide-to-using-black/
Hopefully after reading this you will find that the tests people are using and the color black are very volatile. First make a true black image, then test from there.
maxpower097 said:
.... In the printing industry if someone chooses black like this from the color pattern it comes out as greyish black in print.
...
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Click to collapse
A black is easily achieved in assembler (and i'm assuming therefore in C) by simply setting the pixels on the bitmap to 00,00,00 (maybe a few more zero's for more colour range?). This is the "true" black of a device.
i used photoshop to get a high quality uncompressed RGB 0 0 0 bmp image.
the screen is still lit
android53 said:
i used photoshop to get a high quality uncompressed RGB 0 0 0 bmp image.
the screen is still lit
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm wondering if thats the best way to test it. If your viewing your image you created in PS it could be rendering it into colors like 1,0,0 , or 0,0,1, etc.... I would imagine you would need to write a program that actually sets each pixal at 0,0,0.
Problem
The display on my s3 mini is not showing true black but a feint gray shade and it has few curved lines that are COMPLETELY BLACK...I'm wondering if I can make the whole display black as there is nothing wrong with the screen...I was unable to capture this on camera as it was too dark
I'm kind of late to the party but...
I saw that problem on my Samsung Galaxy Express (similar to S3) but I moved away from Samsung for a few generations. Now on my A52 I saw the same "problem".
Turns out it's the eye confort shield that turns the screen dimmer and yellowish, it was messing with the true blacks. I disabled it and couldn't see anything at all it was pitch black.
Not sure if that was the problem with my old Galaxy device... But it makes sense that when you notice it the most, is when that eye protection is active.
Hope this helps anyone
I was looking at some photos and noticed something about the pictures, all shadow detail was gone! It shows as pure black. Now OLED screens are supposedly better at showing shadow detail as there is no backlight haze to cover it up. I saw the same photo on the Samsung Note and the shadow detail was there. It seems the Note has correct calibration.
It is like they take all shadow detail past a certain level and instead of displaying it, they pull it all to black. I know Samsung loves to do this in their LCD TVs as their DNIE or something like that to try to give LCDs more psuedo contrast. All it does though is ruin low light images. It seems they do this with this phone, I presume to give it more "pop". The thing is OLEDs don't need an artificially darkened grey level, OLEDs are good as is in that way.
I tried that voodoo app on "soft" but that doesn't work. It only seems to raise the gamma on the parts of the image that show anyway. It doesn't override the gamma past a certain low level. The shadow detail that was gone before, is still gone.
Is there any other way to tweak this?
I know exactly what you're talking about. There's a huge difference in shadow detail between my plasma and the SAMOLED+ display, and I don't think it's as easily corrected as achieving an accurate gamma curve.
I'm not sure the infuse runs true 32bit color. most LCD screens don't and have some algorithm to mix pixels to cover it up but on a cell phone i doubt they'd even do that. I don't think they really took the infuse screen to its potential. maybe they tried to free up resources in the gpu by running 16bit color, or just figured it looks great so why take it to the full potential.
Dani897 said:
I'm not sure the infuse runs true 32bit color. most LCD screens don't and have some algorithm to mix pixels to cover it up but on a cell phone i doubt they'd even do that. I don't think they really took the infuse screen to its potential. maybe they tried to free up resources in the gpu by running 16bit color, or just figured it looks great so why take it to the full potential.
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Click to collapse
No, it has nothing to do with color depth. If there were issues with that graphics would have banding due to lack of colors. No banding. Eliminating shadow detail isn't because of bitness of the display, it doesn't work that way, you would see that everywhere.
It is deliberate. I looked at the same photo on a Galaxy Note supposedly with an inferior screen (pentile) and all of the shadow detail was there. It is like Samsung decided to cut off all shades below a certain threshold, probably to "enhance" the contrast.
GGXtreme said:
I know exactly what you're talking about. There's a huge difference in shadow detail between my plasma and the SAMOLED+ display, and I don't think it's as easily corrected as achieving an accurate gamma curve.
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Click to collapse
Except that the Galaxy Note shows this detail, and with an inferior screen tech (pentile). It isn't an OLEd issue, it is something they did. I would guess it needs a firmware/screen driver hack to fix, too bad that isn't likely.
DaveC1964 said:
Except that the Galaxy Note shows this detail, and with an inferior screen tech (pentile). It isn't an OLEd issue, it is something they did. I would guess it needs a firmware/screen driver hack to fix, too bad that isn't likely.
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Click to collapse
Hmm. Maybe supercurio can look into it (although he seems busy enough as-is). I'd be truly impressed with this screen if the shadow detail was there, even with the white point well above 6500k. This is actually similar to running my TV with 0-255 output levels or RGB Full pixel format, but I doubt it's related.
Edit: The graphs supercurio posted show black clipping below 4% gray, but I'm not sure if this is the direct cause of this (or if it's even correctable).
GGXtreme said:
Edit: The graphs supercurio posted show black clipping below 4% gray, but I'm not sure if this is the direct cause of this (or if it's even correctable).
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Click to collapse
It probably is the problem. I don't know why they clip anything. If the detail is there it should display it, period.
This is probably just another case of some marketing type at Sammy saying that this should be done to give things more contrast and "pop". It is idiotic however as it ruins some pictures/video.
It could be probably be fixed but it would have to be done low level, in the firmware somewhere.
supercurio mentioned that it could be fixed with a driver. One can always hope...
NOt sure this warrants its own thread but I just got my one x tonight and I can't believe I haven't seen anyone comment on this as its really annoying me...
The pull down menu screen resolution is terrible, the only way I can describe it is that it looks like it has noise in it like certain digital camera shots. That same black background appears in other places too. Am I the only one that sees it? It's almost like that background can't handle the screen resolution (which is incredible by the way).
Um...seriously? That's the design they use for that background. It has nothing to do with resolution or anything. It's at the full 720p res, that's just the design they use (and it's quite nice IMO).
I can't believe it's the design.... and if it is the design...its terrible. Every other style/texture they use is fine.
I see what you mean and I think is just a textured background that makes it look like that. I don't think it's a lower resolution or anything.
Sent from my HTC One X using XDA
hi,
i just started this thread to get your opinions regarding the display quality of the note3!
i have to admit upfront that i'm a hypocrite when it comes to amoled screens, so far i had to switch all of my amoled devices a least 5 times until i got a unit which satisfied me. done this with the first note, and also with the second.
as far as i can say the screen of the note3 is the best i've ever seen (by far better black-levels as note1 and note2), although i also identified a few flaws as well:
the color RED has very bad viewing angles: when tilting the device a little bit the color gets orange immediately.
try this by enter *#0*# in the dialer, and click on "red" then tilt the device. let us know how "your red" is, thx!
the gamma of the screen is totally screwed: can see down to "1" in gammatest.png:
the disadvantage of this is that you are actually able to see dark grey screens which you should not.
on the left side of the screen border there is a small strip which has also more gamma then the rest of the screen, in menus etc.
this is clearly visible when its dark around. also only visible when at least a little grey is to display, pure black is ok!
this week i will test one or two more note3's, just to have a comparison and to determine if the quality spread is as big as with previous devices. for note1 and note2 the differences between devices were really huge. some screens were near to perfect, most of them had flaws with color unevenness.
what are your impressions?
and: do you care?
regards,
markus
edit 03.10.2013:
just got my second note (this time from amazon.de): the screen is considerably better!! the "more gamma" strip on the left side is non existent on the second device, in gammatest.png the screen is much more uniform! also the red viewing angle is better, it still fades to orange when tilted, but not as much as with my first device!
conclusio: the big differences in screen quality are still existant, it's still luck of the draw if you get a decent one or not...
also the general build quality differs: on the second device the pcb is not exactly in the middle of the casing, the camera hole is not centered in it's protrusion, and the power button extends a little more out of the casing.
again, i may be a "little" freaky about this things, but for > €700 I want to have a decent device!
screen quality is very important for me, because i read a lot with the device, especially in dark environments where the left gamma strip i mentioned was really annoying! i also showed this to a few colleagues of mine, and they agreed.
edit 04.10.2013:
another finding: when CPU load is high, the brightness jumps between a lower (darker) and a higher (brighter) state, even if brightness is set to manual: both devices show this behavior, although not exactly identically: my first device needs more load to start with this (it takes longer), the second one starts the dimming relatively early.
how to test: load a stress test tool (cpu prime benchmark from google play) and let it run, set the brightness to manual maximum and wait.
you will see that after a few seconds the screen will go darker, and will switch between this states. this is independent from the brightness level, it is only better seen at maximum!
i guess this is some power and/or thermal limitation (when more cores are under heavy load), it would be interesting how this kicks in in summer when ambient temperatures are higher...
edit 25.10.2013:
just to let you know: i'm now through 6 devices, all of them had display flaws in terms of uneveness.
a issue most of the devices suffer is the lower dark half of the screen: on 4 of my 6 note3's the lower half of the screen has been signifcantly darker then t´he upper half,
one had a very bad gamme increase on the left 2mm, one had a bad gamma increase on the top 2cm. 4 had a warmer white, two of them were more cold (more blue). could be due to missing or wrong factory calibration...
what is gone is the "blotch issue" i had with sgs2, note1 and note2, and: black is now really black!
but on dark grey levels the uneveness is clearly visible, look at the attached "gammatest.png"
this shows the lowest grey tones. and should be a very visible gradient from top to bottom.
go in a totally dark room, open the pic, zoom in max, and navigate to the top left corner. then pull the
picture down, and look how the numbers fade. for example: "6" should be at the same brightness level on top
and bottom of the screen. it definitely is not...
go out and test for yourself, and post your findings!
Hi there, I should be receiving my N3 next Wednesday. Are the blacks the 'true blacks', as in taking the phone in a pitch black room and blacks cannot be seen?
Thanks
Sent from my GT-N7100 using xda premium
cd993 said:
Hi there, I should be receiving my N3 next Wednesday. Are the blacks the 'true blacks', as in taking the phone in a pitch black room and blacks cannot be seen?
Thanks
Sent from my GT-N7100 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OLED screens are the only ones I know of that can get true black. With OLED the pixels make there own light so no back light is needed, thus black pixels are not being used at all so a black image has a nice inky black color. You notice it the best when you have a colorful picture with black in it.
Malkozaine said:
OLED screens are the only ones I know of that can get true black. With OLED the pixels make there own light so no back light is needed, thus black pixels are not being used at all so a black image has a nice inky black color. You notice it the best when you have a colorful picture with black in it.
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Click to collapse
sorry, but this is a wrong statement. all amoled screens so far were NOT totally black, even if you displayed a totally black image! the reason is that if the screen is active the display controller is powered (which is the case when displaying a black image, and not if the screen is "off") which can be seen as a faint and VERY dark glow. you can only see this when the room in which you are is totally dark, and your eyes had time to accommodate. to make it worse: on all AMOLED devices i've seen so far there were patterns (like hair lines and blotches) in this grey glow, due to the manufacturing technique used (lithography).
see for reference:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1365032
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1986338
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1949306
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=32803480#post32803480
and so on...
so the question of cd993 is reasonable!
answer: note3 is the first device where i cannot see this dark glow, even in a total dark room! so a big improvement on this side. not sure what they changed, but the glow is definitely gone!
Red turns orange here to, but it doesent bother me as the screen is nice overall. Much better than my note 2
Red turns orange when screen is tilted, yes. Black are true blacks in Note 3. If you go to a pitch black room, and display a completely black screen in Note3, the phone will blend in and disappear.
Thanks guys, cannot wait to receive my device!!
Sent from my GT-N7100 using xda premium
TML1504 said:
hi,
i have to admit upfront that i'm a hypocrite when it comes to amoled screens, so far i had to switch all of my amoled devices a least 5 times until i got a unit which satisfied me. done this with the first note, and also with the second.
regards,
markus
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please make a quick guide of what to test and what to look for on a new note 3, in order to decide whether or not to return or warranty claim. Basically: On arrival, what would you check for, and what result would make you return it and get a replacement? How much of any issue would be ok for you to keep it..?
N3 screen : brighter and look better than Note 2 and S4 but still can not compare to the best IPS screen about white color
TML1504 said:
i have to admit upfront that i'm a hypocrite when it comes to amoled screens, so far i had to switch all of my amoled devices a least 5 times until i got a unit which satisfied me. done this with the first note, and also with the second.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You'll do that with any Android phone whether LCD or AMOLED because their screens aren't individually calibrated (iPhone's are). So there's some degree of acceptable production tolerances that means all built won't be identical. So whatevery you went through before you'll go through again with the N3.
Oled = true black
LCD = true white
Sent from my note 2 ya bish!
Today I got my N3 and all I can say its SUPERB!!! Abs everything
My only concern with AMOLED is the blotches that show on a grey screen in a dark environment like the first time I noticed it using Facebook. I had to replace my first Note II and even the second has some blotches but not quite as big and bad.
I've attached a grey background for your convenience to see if your AMOLED has blotches. You'll need to be in a dark environment like reading at night without the lights on (simulate by going into the bathroom and turning off the light).
mi7chy said:
My only concern with AMOLED is the blotches that show on a grey screen in a dark environment like the first time I noticed it using Facebook. I had to replace my first Note II and even the second has some blotches but not quite as big and bad.
I've attached a grey background for your convenience to see if your AMOLED has blotches. You'll need to be in a dark environment like reading at night without the lights on (simulate by going into the bathroom and turning off the light).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My ps vita has those blotches really bad!
You only see them in a pitch black room but I think they are the same thing.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using xda app-developers app
Pointing out to OP that the leaking light on the Note 2 (and s3) is extremely reduced in the S4 and Note 3 - you should not compare the Note 3 with the Note 2 in that aspect.
Black wallpaper on n3 = better battery life then?
Other than seeing imperfections in impractical situations, is there anything about the display that is actually bad in normal use? I mean do you see whites on this phone and think, hmm that's more of an off-white or is it like so small in difference that you need a color spectrometer to prove that it's not "true" white?
mi7chy said:
My only concern with AMOLED is the blotches that show on a grey screen in a dark environment like the first time I noticed it using Facebook. I had to replace my first Note II and even the second has some blotches but not quite as big and bad.
I've attached a grey background for your convenience to see if your AMOLED has blotches. You'll need to be in a dark environment like reading at night without the lights on (simulate by going into the bathroom and turning off the light).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know what you mean. I had that on my note 2. Not so on my note 3. When I open black screen in a pitch black room, the phone becomes completely invisible as it blends in perfectly with the dark. And yes, I'm not exaggerating. It's the deepest black I've ever seen on any display, it's like the phone is actually turned off.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Hi Guys!
Need info about PURPLE SEMARING. Does the Note 3 has this issue? Because all the S4 has this semaring issue although it has a pitch black. Please confirm this purple smearing. If it's totally pitch black and without smearing it will be the perfect screen out there
Thanks guys! :highfive:
iede said:
Hi Guys!
Need info about PURPLE SEMARING. Does the Note 3 has this issue? Because all the S4 has this semaring issue although it has a pitch black. Please confirm this purple smearing. If it's totally pitch black and without smearing it will be the perfect screen out there
Thanks guys! :highfive:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Completely pitch black...
Sent from my SM-N9005 using xda app-developers app
Can we expect to get a custom kernel that will allow us to change the colour reproduction on the phone as i dont know about you guys but this phone has awesome colour reproduction but i like my screens slightly more saturated