Database Info

AMOLED displays cant display true black...:Screen Discussion :...

I posted this on the galaxy s forums too, but it seems a little dead there.
As seen by the NoLED app over in the (galaxy S) dev section, and in a few other places on the net, people are finding that when they display a black image on their amoled/samoled screens in a dark room there is still light emitted by the display. it is not truly black
I would like to know why!
One thing i hear is about image compression and signal noise causing the pixels to not display #000000 black and instead a variant of black/grey causing the pixel to become lit.
This problem is not an issue during the day, i can't tell the difference when my screen is displaying black or off. but what it does effect is battery life.
If the screen isn't powering down its pixels then it is not saving anywhere near as much power as it could do
Were we cheated of our true black?

My phone has the AMOLED. I did notice that I can see the backlight through a black screen, usually during boot up. It dosent really bother me. I didnt feel cheated or anything like that. The images look fine.
My phone could use better battery management, my MT3g battery spoiled me.

The odd thing is that there is no backlight on OLED displays - the light is produced by each individual pixel. It ought to produce true black as the pixels should be entirely off, producing no light at all.

The problem with your analysis is that your using a third party app to test this,
what if the code is messing with the display ????
best way to test this is to upload a black image onto your phone and keep it on for a few hours , now check if the display is consuming battery in the battery usage screen, report your findings here ?
Btw normal AMOLEDS differ from S-AMOLED , they don't have true black so they need to turn on the pixels in the display to display blacks.

They should be the same actually, same technology powering the pixels, same lack of a backlight.
I did my testing on the galaxy S with its super amoled, showing a true black bmp image and the screen is still lit.

There shouldn't be any reason to turn on pixels to display black - black is the absence of light, so creating light to display black is rather counterintuitive.
Pure blacks can't be expected from an LCD because the pixels have to block the light from the always-on backlight, but they ought to be achievable (as far as ambient lighting conditions permit) from an OLED.
I do wonder if this is something PenTile-related, but considering that's a technology designed for OLEDs, you'd hope not!

The PenTile display, iirc correctly, has a white subpixel. Maybe thats where the light is coming from?

ooo .... ooo .... ooo .... does that mean by default no more BLACK screen of death??
On a serious note, i'd find it odd that a program can screw up showing a black screen. Wasn't it usualy a case of (well in my day anyway!) poking #000000 to the "pixels" address? (or however many 0's you need for a true 16bit display)

it cant be because its a RGBW display because each led can still be turned off. there still is no backlight.
Also i doubt its RGBW, most likely RGBG

android53 said:
Also i doubt its RGBW, most likely RGBG
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, pretty sure it's RGBG. RGBW is a different PenTile layout.

omg you all need a life or a star trek convention to go to lol

AndroHero said:
omg you all need a life or a star trek convention to go to lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you DO know YOUR on a geeky phone forum, right?
(Sadly though, i think you are correct!)

AndroHero said:
omg you all need a life or a star trek convention to go to lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My life is my phone, and the next StarTrek convention isnt until August 13th in Nj, so until then well debate about screen pixels and how black is black on an AMOLED.

Are you guys using true black? In CMKY terms true black is not 100 100 100 100, or RGB terms 0 0 0. That means 100% color of each of the 3/4 colors. In the printing industry if someone chooses black like this from the color pattern it comes out as greyish black in print.
Heres a good artcle that should help you guys make a true black image in photoshop.
http://www.andrewkelsall.com/the-professional-designers-guide-to-using-black/
Hopefully after reading this you will find that the tests people are using and the color black are very volatile. First make a true black image, then test from there.

maxpower097 said:
.... In the printing industry if someone chooses black like this from the color pattern it comes out as greyish black in print.
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A black is easily achieved in assembler (and i'm assuming therefore in C) by simply setting the pixels on the bitmap to 00,00,00 (maybe a few more zero's for more colour range?). This is the "true" black of a device.

i used photoshop to get a high quality uncompressed RGB 0 0 0 bmp image.
the screen is still lit

android53 said:
i used photoshop to get a high quality uncompressed RGB 0 0 0 bmp image.
the screen is still lit
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm wondering if thats the best way to test it. If your viewing your image you created in PS it could be rendering it into colors like 1,0,0 , or 0,0,1, etc.... I would imagine you would need to write a program that actually sets each pixal at 0,0,0.

Problem
The display on my s3 mini is not showing true black but a feint gray shade and it has few curved lines that are COMPLETELY BLACK...I'm wondering if I can make the whole display black as there is nothing wrong with the screen...I was unable to capture this on camera as it was too dark

I'm kind of late to the party but...
I saw that problem on my Samsung Galaxy Express (similar to S3) but I moved away from Samsung for a few generations. Now on my A52 I saw the same "problem".
Turns out it's the eye confort shield that turns the screen dimmer and yellowish, it was messing with the true blacks. I disabled it and couldn't see anything at all it was pitch black.
Not sure if that was the problem with my old Galaxy device... But it makes sense that when you notice it the most, is when that eye protection is active.
Hope this helps anyone

Contrast (true blacks)

How well do you know your fifty shades of grey? Rate this thread to express how good the Huawei Nexus 6P's display contrast is. A higher rating indicates that black is true black, rather than a very dark gray.
Then, drop a comment if you have anything to add!

Great contrast thanks to AMOLED

It gets backly black as if the screen was off exactly like other OLED displays I've used(S4, Note 4, S6)
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

AMOLED
/thread

Actually, in real world usage blacks are pretty poor/washed out, unless you're in a dark room. When the screen is off you can see the surface of the screen is much lighter than, say, Samsung AMOLED phones. It's more like greenish dark grey rather than black so even if the actual pixels are turned off, it doesn't look black. It's even worse than many LCDs. I have no idea how come no one has mentioned this in any reviews, or at least I've never seen it.

Jockson said:
Actually, in real world usage blacks are pretty poor/washed out, unless you're in a dark room. When the screen is off you can see the surface of the screen is much lighter than, say, Samsung AMOLED phones. It's more like greenish dark grey rather than black so even if the actual pixels are turned off, it doesn't look black. It's even worse than many LCDs. I have no idea how come no one has mentioned this in any reviews, or at least I've never seen it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ROFL are you hallucinating? My 6P's blacks are pitch black. The way I can tell... The edge of the screen, when black, is equal to the blacks on the top and bottom of the screen.

Eric214 said:
ROFL are you hallucinating? My 6P's blacks are pitch black. The way I can tell... The edge of the screen, when black, is equal to the blacks on the top and bottom of the screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Except that is not true. Take a look at the screen when it is turned off. The surrounding bezel is truly black but the screen itself is greenish gray, meaning blacks are not getting darker than that. Then look at a Samsung AMOLED phone and you'll see it's the other way around, it's the screen itself that is as black as it gets. Samsung obviously uses different filters/polarizers which result in much better blacks in anything other than total darkness. I just compared my 6P to an old Galaxy S2 and again, the S2 has much deeper blacks thanks to the actual surface being much darker. You only really get true pitch black when you're using the 6P in a dark room. Otherwise blacks are pretty much on par with your average LCD, which is a poor result for an AMOLED screen.

Jockson said:
Except that is not true. Take a look at the screen when it is turned off. The surrounding bezel is truly black but the screen itself is greenish gray, meaning blacks are not getting darker than that. Then look at a Samsung AMOLED phone and you'll see it's the other way around, it's the screen itself that is as black as it gets. Samsung obviously uses different filters/polarizers which result in much better blacks in anything other than total darkness. I just compared my 6P to an old Galaxy S2 and again, the S2 has much deeper blacks thanks to the actual surface being much darker. You only really get true pitch black when you're using the 6P in a dark room. Otherwise blacks are pretty much on par with your average LCD, which is a poor result for an AMOLED screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, it's true on mine. Maybe your panel is different then mine. I just compared my 6P to my Note 4 and they look the same. Which makes sense since Huawei buys there panels from Samsung so they are the same panels. Only difference is Samsung panels get a few nits brighter.
Guess we can agree to disagree. Especially since you can get different quality panels from phone to phone. Just like that can happen on Samsung phones.
Oh and I forgot, there are no filters to make blacks, black as you don't filter light on Amoled screens. The pixel just doesn't receive power so the pixel is off, not filtered. What you are referring to is an LCD panel, not Amoled

Eric214 said:
Well, it's true on mine. Maybe your panel is different then mine. I just compared my 6P to my Note 4 and they look the same. Which makes sense since Huawei buys there panels from Samsung so they are the same panels. Only difference is Samsung panels get a few nits brighter.
Guess we can agree to disagree. Especially since you can get different quality panels from phone to phone. Just like that can happen on Samsung phones.
Oh and I forgot, there are no filters to make blacks, black as you don't filter light on Amoled screens. The pixel just doesn't receive power so the pixel is off, not filtered. What you are referring to is an LCD panel, not Amoled
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It has nothing to do with pixels being off. Look here https://technology.ihs.com/509943/w...izer-technology-trend-of-amoled-use-polarizer
Remember the first Nexus, the Nexus One? It also had an amoled screen, with terrible blacks. How was that possible? Because the actual surface of the screen was so reflective, if there was even a little bit of ambient light reaching the screen it would completely wash it out. Whether the actual pixels emitted any light was irrelevant in any other conditions other than complete darkness.
There are no different panels being used on the 6P. Just take the phone out of a dark room and you'll see the screen is clearly not as black as the bezels when it's turned off. I have so far compared it to the following phones: Note 5, S6 edge, S4, S4 mini, S2. All of them have deeper blacks than the 6P due to their surface being darker. It may be a Samsung panel but it's not the same one as used by Samsung on their devices. Even Anandtech have mentioned it uses different lamination which actually provides slightly better viewing angles. What's strange is that the more off angle you go, the lighter the surface appears. Can be seen in this video comparing the 6P to the 5X http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXtDCBSKQV8&t=3m44s Obviously it's not as bad when looking head on but it's still pretty poor for an amoled screen.

Jockson said:
It has nothing to do with pixels being off. Look here https://technology.ihs.com/509943/w...izer-technology-trend-of-amoled-use-polarizer
Remember the first Nexus, the Nexus One? It also had an amoled screen, with terrible blacks. How was that possible? Because the actual surface of the screen was so reflective, if there was even a little bit of ambient light reaching the screen it would completely wash it out. Whether the actual pixels emitted any light was irrelevant in any other conditions other than complete darkness.
There are no different panels being used on the 6P. Just take the phone out of a dark room and you'll see the screen is clearly not as black as the bezels when it's turned off. I have so far compared it to the following phones: Note 5, S6 edge, S4, S4 mini, S2. All of them have deeper blacks than the 6P due to their surface being darker. It may be a Samsung panel but it's not the same one as used by Samsung on their devices. Even Anandtech have mentioned it uses different lamination which actually provides slightly better viewing angles. What's strange is that the more off angle you go, the lighter the surface appears. Can be seen in this video comparing the 6P to the 5X http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXtDCBSKQV8&t=3m44s Obviously it's not as bad when looking head on but it's still pretty poor for an amoled screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm sorry man mine is just black. Agree to disagree. Can't say any better then that. I'm moving on. If your not happy with the phone for that reason, sell it and get a Samsung.

Well, it was nice discussing with you but one may as well say "mine is pink, agree to disagree". It doesn't really mean anything as far as facts go.
I just took out my old Nexus 5 and surprise surprise, it absolutely kills the 6P when it comes to black depth in well lit conditions. The surface of the screen simply reflects way too much light.

Hahaha so many people here producing disinformations...
AMOLED, especiall Super, has 0.098% of light coming thru when fully black but on. That's the blackest as it gets.
6P, Note's, S6, S7. have the BEST SCREENS around. And by far.
Turn on sRGB mode in developer options if u want, a bit washed, but 100% accurate colors. What u see is what u get on print. But why would u use that, unless you're a professional photographer like me.

mihovil13 said:
AMOLED, especiall Super, has 0.098% of light coming thru when fully black but on. That's the blackest as it gets.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Coming through what? Screen surface reflectiveness is what matters the most when it comes to black depth outdoors. LCDs have extremely high MEASURED black levels in comparison to AMOLED but you can't see that outside because of ambient light. Case in point, the 6P looks worse than most good LCDs outside. It's like when people claim plasma TVs have amazing blacks but forget to mention that is only true in low light conditions.

Jockson I understand and agree with you. The screen on the 6P has a lighter surface color than the black bezels above and below which is noticeable. It isn't a major detractor from the visual quality screen on, but I agree that in a bright setting, blacks don't get to be as black as could be. It isn't bad by any means, but unless you get a completely black unreflective layer it may not be easy to improve (or Samsung is hogging it all to themselves).
Either way, you're right though the quality of the screen is still really good on the 6P so, yea. Still like my 6P, even after using a HTC 10 with it for the past 6 months. Both great, but the 6P has me returning to it more, for now.

Finally someone understands what I'm talking about. I don't want to "sell this phone and buy a Samsung then". I already had the Note 5 and got rid of it for the 6P. Love this phone, love the screen as well in low light conditions. But this really caught me by surprise. I've switched to a full black theme and outside, it really shows how washed out it really is. On a cloudy day outside, blacks on the Note 5 look almost perfectly black and yet the 6P next to it looks horribly washed out and more like greenish grey. I knew it wouldn't compete with the Note 5 in direct sunlight but it's pretty disappointing that it loses out considerably in medium light conditions as well. And not only to the Note 5 but to the ancient S2 as well. The display surface just doesn't look like any Samsung amoled phone ever which is pretty strange.

Jockson said:
Well, it was nice discussing with you but one may as well say "mine is pink, agree to disagree". It doesn't really mean anything as far as facts go.
I just took out my old Nexus 5 and surprise surprise, it absolutely kills the 6P when it comes to black depth in well lit conditions. The surface of the screen simply reflects way too much light.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with this completely. It's pretty hard not to notice that there is a definite green/brown tint to the display in contrast to the surrounding black bezel when in good ambient light. I came from a Nexus 4 and I was immediately disappointed by this aspect of the 6P display. Since then I have reconciled this disappointment with the fact that the 6P is overall a fantastic phone with substantially better value than other premium phones.
I'm not 100% sure that it's much better on Samsung devices because Samsung goes out of its way to mask this issue by making the top and bottom bezels of their phones different (non-black) colors. I'll even go so far as to suggest that the curved display on the Edge was a gimmicky attempt to obscure this issue. This, among others, is an AMOLED problem and why Apple hasn't used them. Still love the 6P, especially now on Nougat.

You are absolutely right regarding Samsung making their bezels non black. Even on their black phones bezels are often very, very dark grey. But still, their screens do have far less reflective surface. I wasn't really sure myself was it such a big difference until I compared it side by side with the Note 5, S6 edge and S2. The 6P just looks green and very washed out in comparison.
People often forget it's the perception of contrast that matters, not the absolute measured black level. LCD often gets criticized for poor contrast but visually it has deeper blacks than plasma and CRT do, except in low ambient light. Same story with the 6P. Great blacks when there isn't much light around, otherwise pretty poor and washed out.

Jockson said:
You are absolutely right regarding Samsung making their bezels non black. Even on their black phones bezels are often very, very dark grey. But still, their screens do have far less reflective surface. I wasn't really sure myself was it such a big difference until I compared it side by side with the Note 5, S6 edge and S2. The 6P just looks green and very washed out in comparison.
People often forget it's the perception of contrast that matters, not the absolute measured black level. LCD often gets criticized for poor contrast but visually it has deeper blacks than plasma and CRT do, except in low ambient light. Same story with the 6P. Great blacks when there isn't much light around, otherwise pretty poor and washed out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well yes if the screen is off and you're in sunlight, you can see the difference from the bezel. That's normal for every phone. I rarely use my phone in direct sunlight. I'm talking about normal use and when the screen is on, I can not tell the difference if say the status bar is black and the edge/top/bottom of the bezel. So if you're just talking about screen off and in bright light/sunlight.... that's every phone basically. But I don't stare at my phone and worry about how dark the screen is when it's off.

Eric214 said:
ROFL are you hallucinating? My 6P's blacks are pitch black. The way I can tell... The edge of the screen, when black, is equal to the blacks on the top and bottom of the screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's true. I usually root to get the tinted navigation bar but this time i didn't root to get that because the blacks are usually same as the bezel of the phone which looks damn good.

Eric214 said:
Well yes if the screen is off and you're in sunlight, you can see the difference from the bezel. That's normal for every phone. I rarely use my phone in direct sunlight. I'm talking about normal use and when the screen is on, I can not tell the difference if say the status bar is black and the edge/top/bottom of the bezel. So if you're just talking about screen off and in bright light/sunlight.... that's every phone basically. But I don't stare at my phone and worry about how dark the screen is when it's off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How dark the screen is when it is turned off IS what the blacks actually look like. It can't look any darker than that, the screen doesn't emit the "black" color When there is bright content on the screen it just tricks your eyes/brain into thinking black areas are darker than they really are but in reality, contrast is still pretty poor.
I'm not talking about direct sunlight either. Even in medium ambient light blacks wash out considerably. Certainly MUCH more than they do on Samsung AMOLED phones and most LCDs so no, not every phone is the same. The 6P display just isn't very good in this regard.

Bad viewing angle on Galaxy S7

Hello everybody.
I received the exynos galaxy S7 few days ago. The experience with it is very good so far but there is an annoying thing about it. As I said in the title, the viewing angle are bad.
Indeed, for example when the background is white (rather yellow even with my display in basic mode), the colors change when I incline the smartphone for example at the beginning the yellow tint (normally white) tends to white then to a chameleon tint ( green, red, blue, purple) tint very fast. I know it can be normal with extreme viewing angles but in my case, it happens when I slightly incline the smartphone but I can still distinguish the content displayed though.
My brother owns a galaxy s7 edge and he doesn't experience this issue.
Do you experience the same problem? Do you think my device is defective?
Thanks.

I,
My device gets blue/green tint when I slightly incline it too... it's my first Samsung and amoled screen, so I don't know if it's ok, but I find it very disturbing...

Get a replacement if you can. I had a blue tint on white at very small angles on my first phone, the second one is better, not perfect but I can live with it.
Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

KoRoZIV said:
Get a replacement if you can. I had a blue tint on white at very small angles on my first phone, the second one is better, not perfect but I can live with it.
Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had a replacement this week-end and... the problem is still there !
Ok, I admit that it is less "agressive", but the screen still gets blue when inclined (even a little bit).
Maybe I'm not familiar with AMOLED screens (I've read it's typical), but I find it very annoying...

It's typical. Most people that continually spout off about how great AMOLED screens are and how they're so superior to LCDs conveniently ignore issues like this. The truth is, LCDs have some issues, like weak blacks if you're in a dark environment, but AMOLED screens usually have even more issues than LCDs, especially when it comes to displaying white and shades of gray.

Two Edges - two different displays - difference in white and color

Strange thing.
Today I decied to compare the displays of my two Edges - one black bought right after launch, the second one white bought few days ago. Guess what? The display is not the same. There is difference in colors intensity (white one has more strong colors and the white is more clear, where the black one seems darker more dim, like used) Or at least it is my impression. I checked both in the maximum brightness and in basic mode.... So after all, not all Edges just differ cause of processor ? Anyone checked it as well ?

Here we have 2 edges- white & gold, and the displayed colors of the white s7e seem to be a little bit more pastel, but it is not a big different. However, under same displaysettings there are some differences.
Btw the white s7e has the Sony Camera sensor, the golden one has Samsungs sensor. Has nothing to do with the display, just wanted to say.

I think i know where is problem- i have damaged screen . Now i can clearly see that yhe edges of the screen have kind of red tint. Similar to tvs that have their screen burned but here is just one color red. So i guess i have two phones that gotta go under warranty. I will post photos tomorrow .

This is normal by nature of amoled or any other type of screens. They just differ by nature. However i agree your point. Newer s7 edge displays have better whites. I left my device for screen replacement and the new one have a brighter and whiter display compared to old one.
Sent from my SM-G935F using XDA-Developers mobile app

search for my amoled threads, I started quite a few during the last years. and I exchanged every galaxy device I bought a few times to get one with a decent screen!
if you place 10 devices side to side, every screen will be little different in regard to tint, uniformity,...
only about 15% are close to perfect, these are the ones cut out from the center of the display wafer during production!
Sent from my SM-N930F using XDA-Developers mobile app

How white are your whites?

No, I'm not trying to sell washing powder, just trying to understand an issue I've had now with two Pixel 2 devices, and one that I posted about on the colour saturation and accuracy thread on the Real Life Review boards previously.
My first Pixel 2 arrived in December and I was immediately underwhelmed with the colour balance on the display - regardless of configuration options. Whites were very yellow - not as bad as when the Night Light was on, but far from white. So I returned the device, and a new one arrived a few days later. My second Pixel 2 is undoubtedly much better than the first. Not only was the colour balance better, it was also noticeably sharper when compared side by side. However, it still has a definite yellow tint in the whites, and some images seem to show this more than others - for example, flesh tones in the otherwise superb photos (when viewed on the device) look odd.
It's most noticeable for me when I have a nearby monitor or screen to compare. Individually the phone does not look so bad, but the whites on my monitor, laptop, tablet and even old phones are significantly whiter. (I'm not helped by the fact that I work in front of a screen all day - so I'm rarely able to avoid the comparison.)
Hence the question - both my devices have had a distinct yellow tint in the whites. How about yours?
I'd really like to keep the phone - because pretty much everything else about it is great. However, it's not a cheap phone, and because of that I'm not sure I should be making such a compromise on the display.
Any feedback appreciated.

I went to Best Buy and looked at the Pixel 2 they had there, and it had a similar yellow tint to the one I had that I RMA'd, but I don't think the tint was as bad on the one at Best Buy as it was on the one I had.

To get a comparison I just loaded the Play Store app (white background) and compared to a sheet of laser printer paper I had on my desk (under fluorescent lighting in my office). I'd have say my whites were a bit colder (i.e. less yellow) than the paper appeared under these lighting conditions.
I tried changing colour mode, but that didn't seem to have a dramatic effect on the white point, though "saturated" looked a little different - I'm not sure whether I'd describe it as "warmer" (more yellow/less blue) or just having slightly more green, but there was a very small change in colour temperature in that mode. I use "natural" myself anyway.

Large Hadron said:
To get a comparison I just loaded the Play Store app (white background) and compared to a sheet of laser printer paper I had on my desk (under fluorescent lighting in my office). I'd have say my whites were a bit colder (i.e. less yellow) than the paper appeared under these lighting conditions.
I tried changing colour mode, but that didn't seem to have a dramatic effect on the white point, though "saturated" looked a little different - I'm not sure whether I'd describe it as "warmer" (more yellow/less blue) or just having slightly more green, but there was a very small change in colour temperature in that mode. I use "natural" myself anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the feedback.... I'm using natural mode too - boosted, or saturated just make the whites more yellow for me. It's subtle - but noticeable.

I've also noticed yellowish whites comparing it to other screens. Even my old N6P had better whites. I don't know if it's a generalized issue we should worry about, or just stick with it.
Enviado desde mi Pixel 2 mediante Tapatalk

It's just how these screens were tuned. They are much warmer than LCD screens and look yellow when u compare to basically any other display. It's a feature, not a bug. Stop comparing and you won't notice it ?

PuffDaddy_d said:
It's just how these screens were tuned. They are much warmer than LCD screens and look yellow when u compare to basically any other display. It's a feature, not a bug. Stop comparing and you won't notice it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're right of course, I need to stop comparing... I just got a bit paranoid after my original RMA'd device's screen was so poor. I think I'm going to stick with it.