Sorry i got if i got the Title wrong but pretty much what im trying to get at is what is everyone's opinion on what the next OS from a Phone OEM? (HTC LG Samsung) it could have been that Samsung was jealous of Motorola's spotlight when google bought Moto back in (2012 was it? seems like a long time ago) and Samsung decided to make android less "Android" with the Galaxy notePRO 12.1 Launcher. Samsung also made the the new Samsung Gear 2 / neo (note that they dropped the galaxy name) With their own Ti zen OS instead of android like the previous model (there are reports of that new Tizen phone coming out aswell, it could be that they are just trying to try something new). what i'm trying to get at is does anyone else think HTC or LG or Motorola or Lenovo or whoever produces android phones/tablets make Slap android in the face with their own OS? i think this "Could" be the beginning of androids downfall
please Bark at me i want to see everyone's opinion!
To me it looks like Android is the first mobile OS to be so widely used by so many different manufacturers. And the OEM operating systems are the ones that usually fade. So to me, anything is possible. Nokia had Symbian, only one or two phones for other brands were ever made. Each had their own locked in operating system.. Windows mobile was always around but never got anywhere without Nokia and that is probably where it will stay..
Basically, things are different now. I have a feeling this new Samsung OS will be lower end? The only way Android would lose its place I think, is if another OEM independent OS came to challenge it.
Phenom2122 said:
To me it looks like Android is the first mobile OS to be so widely used by so many different manufacturers. And the OEM operating systems are the ones that usually fade. So to me, anything is possible. Nokia had Symbian, only one or two phones for other brands were ever made. Each had their own locked in operating system.. Windows mobile was always around but never got anywhere without Nokia and that is probably where it will stay..
Basically, things are different now. I have a feeling this new Samsung OS will be lower end? The only way Android would lose its place I think, is if another OEM independent OS came to challenge it.
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interesting thought, its obvious that it will take lots of effort to make android lose its place but i was only wanting to see other peoples thought on it, i agree with Tizen OS being low end, its supposed to be able to run android apps like Jolla and the newest blackberry tablet, for now all tizen looks like is a run down version of Touchwiz UX. hopefully nothing special, if its open source? hell yeah im going to get one. i am really interested how XDA is going to take on it.
I highly doubt it would be open source! To most of these companies that are truly focussed on money making that sort of thing is an abomination. Nokia planned to make Symbian open source, unfortunately there werea couple of other companies who had been involved in it's creation who blocked this at the last minute. I have a feeling Samsung might have been one of those companies but I might be wrong.. (I really miss Symbian by the way, nothing could multitask and do hard work like it, not even my S4 mini. And it ran on such low end specs! If it could have been used with today's hardware they would have had dynamite. I believe Nokia were trying to give a gift to their community before their demise and they were halted by greed, now Symbian is gone anyway)
All that said, I really don't think it will be open source, I believe it's true purpose is the opposite of that. Phone manufacturers don't seem to like their buyers actually truly owning their devices for some reason. I would love to try all these things out but Nokia was all I could ever afford, my S4 mini was a gift.
Phenom2122 said:
I highly doubt it would be open source! To most of these companies that are truly focussed on money making that sort of thing is an abomination. Nokia planned to make Symbian open source, unfortunately there werea couple of other companies who had been involved in it's creation who blocked this at the last minute. I have a feeling Samsung might have been one of those companies but I might be wrong.. (I really miss Symbian by the way, nothing could multitask and do hard work like it, not even my S4 mini. And it ran on such low end specs! If it could have been used with today's hardware they would have had dynamite. I believe Nokia were trying to give a gift to their community before their demise and they were halted by greed, now Symbian is gone anyway)
All that said, I really don't think it will be open source, I believe it's true purpose is the opposite of that. Phone manufacturers don't seem to like their buyers actually truly owning their devices for some reason. I would love to try all these things out but Nokia was all I could ever afford, my S4 mini was a gift.
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did a little research https://www.tizen.org/ your saying at last moment tizen will also become closed?
You are right, I was actually talking without really knowing. I had the impression it was a Samsung made OS but I see on the website it is by the 'Linux Foundation', interesting.
My cynical nature thinks they will go closed source upon release, once they have had all the help in the world from the community. But I do not know. If it comes to more devices then just Samsung, maybe there is hope.
Maybe it depends on who ends up with licensing.
Phenom2122 said:
You are right, I was actually talking without really knowing. I had the impression it was a Samsung made OS but I see on the website it is by the 'Linux Foundation', interesting.
My cynical nature thinks they will go closed source upon release, once they have had all the help in the world from the community. But I do not know. If it comes to more devices then just Samsung, maybe there is hope.
Maybe it depends on who ends up with licensing.
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i doubt it would come upon other OEM devices, but so far since its open source and based on Linux, does that mean they are going to try to copy android (samsung can never think up of their own things huh? lots of apple lawsuits.)? if it will stay open source, does that mean we get some kind of control with flashing New OS's? (custom roms) i cant wait for it xD, samsungs old Bada OS was a great start.
It would be a pity if it was a knock off of Android or even resembled the Touchwiz UI. Those law suits were stupid because this is how phones have looked and behaved for years and years.
I would like to see a more pure Linux for mobile phones. There are so many Linux desktop environments that would be great on a phone. Enlightenment, Gnome 3 and of course Ubuntu's own Unity (at least they have the right idea). And there is no reason it shouldn't be able to run the same programs as on desktop Linux, many phones out power older Linux compatible PCs these days.
If Tizen was pure Linux with a completely fresh UI for a phone that has not been done before and completely open to the user, I would make every plan possible to get hold of one. It sounds so much like a dream that I think we will just be disappointed.
We need more open devices around first before we can have more open OSs and choices, as far as I see it.
Phenom2122 said:
It would be a pity if it was a knock off of Android or even resembled the Touchwiz UI. Those law suits were stupid because this is how phones have looked and behaved for years and years.
I would like to see a more pure Linux for mobile phones. There are so many Linux desktop environments that would be great on a phone. Enlightenment, Gnome 3 and of course Ubuntu's own Unity (at least they have the right idea). And there is no reason it shouldn't be able to run the same programs as on desktop Linux, many phones out power older Linux compatible PCs these days.
If Tizen was pure Linux with a completely fresh UI for a phone that has not been done before and completely open to the user, I would make every plan possible to get hold of one. It sounds so much like a dream that I think we will just be disappointed.
We need more open devices around first before we can have more open OSs and choices, as far as I see it.
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Right? im surprised a developer has not started a kick-starter to help with making a Open source Phone with most likely pure linux running atop. Bada OS (samsungs old OS, pretty much what tizen is now) has lots of common areas with touchwiz UI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bada probably around the Galaxy s2 look though. and they changed from touchwiz on tizen because intel is working with them. cant wait to see how Jolla sailfish and nemo mobile will do.
Related
Android has pretty much taken over the XDA-Portal
Everyday there are more and more posts about users who switched over from winmo to android.
I am planing on buying WP7 device, but my fear is I'll be one of few to do so, and as a result of this there will be little development going on for the device. I am a pretty die-hard windows fan so I hope they regain some popularity with WP7.
What does everyone think?
One thing will decide, microsoft wp7 ads.
sent from my x10i that is banging for a 2.1 upgrade. ...
WM continues
I wouldn´t worry for that, despite Android is now "in fashion" as soon as WP7 arrives will happen the same
I am also looking forward WP7 I´m sure it will be a funny one too
davidstre said:
Android has pretty much taken over the XDA-Portal
Everyday there are more and more posts about users who switched over from winmo to android.
I am planing on buying WP7 device, but my fear is I'll be one of few to do so, and as a result of this there will be little development going on for the device. I am a pretty die-hard windows fan so I hope they regain some popularity with WP7.
What does everyone think?
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Dont worry if your WP7 device is lacking in WP development, Im sure there will be several ways and ROMs to run Android on it
haha, i dont want to run android on it!!!!!!!
dont get me wrong, its a great os, but i am a much bigger fan of windows
Can someone explain to me the "greatness" of WinMo? From what I've seen of it, it's terrible :<.
Then again, I've only seen 1 WinMo Phone and it was a weird one.
SkelmecH said:
Can someone explain to me the "greatness" of WinMo? From what I've seen of it, it's terrible :<.
Then again, I've only seen 1 WinMo Phone and it was a weird one.
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WM is great because of the amount of free software available for it and the openness of the OS. Yes many times the carriers do a lousy job of programming their version of the phone software but thats where the custom roms come in. Remeber iOS and Android are babies in the world of phone software. So most of the worst specs for an android phone are really good for WM. That being said take about any WM phone and hack it with a good stable custom rom and you will be amazed. I've seen many of hte new android phones and I can say I 'm not that impressed. I think its a great phone for people who aren't phone smart. Thats not saying you can't root it and do really cool things with it. But out of the box its pretty locked down. Unfortunately WP7 is going the way of android and iOS because of their success putting smart phones in normal non techies hands. But for the true techie WM is where its at. Hoped that helped. I fear owning my HD2 for years because all the new phones will be locked down like iphone.
hopefully this eases your concerns about lockdown
one of my great friends recevied their developers wp7 device just the other day and theyve already hacked deep into it, done a plethora of customizations and so on. with wp7 i think we will see more apps and such since they say it has lots of appeal to developers. weve got xda, so we hopefully will never have to face a locked down windows phone haha
i agree, if you are very phone smart, and want to get your phone the exact way you like it windows is where its at. they get a bad rep in the smartphone world only because there is a pretty big learning curve before you can truly dig into the device.
davidstre said:
dont get me wrong, its a great os, but i am a much bigger fan of windows
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Same here
Despite I´m testing droid on my Leo
davidstre said:
hopefully this eases your concerns about lockdown
one of my great friends recevied their developers wp7 device just the other day and theyve already hacked deep into it, done a plethora of customizations and so on. with wp7 i think we will see more apps and such since they say it has lots of appeal to developers. weve got xda, so we hopefully will never have to face a locked down windows phone haha
i agree, if you are very phone smart, and want to get your phone the exact way you like it windows is where its at. they get a bad rep in the smartphone world only because there is a pretty big learning curve before you can truly dig into the device.
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I've been seeing alot about this on other sites. Devs seem to want the os cause it's market is not filled to the brims so thier apps get lost. First ones out the gate wins kinda thing. I'm eager to see what happens, though I plan on replacing my two raph's with a captivate. I'm really not digging the multitasking in wp7.
The rumored specs for the HD3 has me very interested in WP7. 4.5" 1280x800 screen, 1.5ghz dual core, 1gb ram, 32gb mem. Depends on the Apps too. I really like the Android market more so than what WinMo has offered. I'm a diehard WinMo user, but after running Android on my HD2.... I've found myself using WinMo less and less and less.
edit: Does WP7 even allow 1280x800 screen res? hmm.
If you use Outlook (I do for both business and personal), the sync between PC and device using ActiveSync/WMDC is (although far from perfect) essential. Doing sync between Android devices and Outlook appears to require either 3rd party apps of variable reliability/ease and/or use of Google mail and calendar. If you're paranoid about your data (like me) and don 't want to use someone else to store it, that make WinMo about the only option. So I think the corporates will keep WinMo alive and XDA-dev will keep it interesting!
gio300zx said:
If you use Outlook (I do for both business and personal), the sync between PC and device using ActiveSync/WMDC is (although far from perfect) essential. Doing sync between Android devices and Outlook appears to require either 3rd party apps of variable reliability/ease and/or use of Google mail and calendar. If you're paranoid about your data (like me) and don 't want to use someone else to store it, that make WinMo about the only option. So I think the corporates will keep WinMo alive and XDA-dev will keep it interesting!
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Amen and Halleluiah!
maxpower097 said:
WM is great because of the amount of free software available for it and the openness of the OS. Yes many times the carriers do a lousy job of programming their version of the phone software but thats where the custom roms come in. Remeber iOS and Android are babies in the world of phone software. So most of the worst specs for an android phone are really good for WM. That being said take about any WM phone and hack it with a good stable custom rom and you will be amazed. I've seen many of hte new android phones and I can say I 'm not that impressed. I think its a great phone for people who aren't phone smart. Thats not saying you can't root it and do really cool things with it. But out of the box its pretty locked down. Unfortunately WP7 is going the way of android and iOS because of their success putting smart phones in normal non techies hands. But for the true techie WM is where its at. Hoped that helped. I fear owning my HD2 for years because all the new phones will be locked down like iphone.
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I dunno, Android, even un-rooted seems pretty Open, i never had a problem with it being "Locked Down"
Could be interesting stuff between the release of Android 3.0 and WM7...
boborone said:
I've been seeing alot about this on other sites. Devs seem to want the os cause it's market is not filled to the brims so thier apps get lost. First ones out the gate wins kinda thing. I'm eager to see what happens, though I plan on replacing my two raph's with a captivate. I'm really not digging the multitasking in wp7.
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its important for everyone to know these 3 thing:
-WP7 will be sending ota updates to the phone directely from microsoft. these updates will improve performance in some cases, and add features in other cases. microsofts goal is to bypass the carrier and avoid all of the bs that comes with carriers.
- keeping this in mind, microsoft has two major updates scheduled ALREADY for release within the the first few months of the phones release. one update is the addition of copy and paste, the other is suppose to have something to do with multi tasking
-they intentionally left copy and paste out of launch so they could distribute it in an ota update.
the multitasking issue isnt a bad thing actually. you can run as many native apps as you want at the same time, you just cant run multiple third party apps at the same time. HOWEVER, lets say i am running a third party app (app1) then lets say i launch a second third party app (app2) app1's state will be saved and placed in the background on "pause" if you will, while app2 runs. if i relaunch app1 its last known state will be restored and app2 will go into pause.
I know this post is coming out a little prematurely, but I couldn't help but notice that the Samsung Focus and the Samsung Captivate are identical phones... not only are they identical but they are running on the same network (modem drivers and such would be the same) ... does anyone know if this port would be possible?
They are not identical phones. Samsung's WP7 devices (the Focus and Omnia7) use Qualcomm's Snapdragon 1GHz processor. The Galaxy S series uses Samsungs 1GHz Hummingbird processor. I'm guessing we would need WP7 drivers before we could port anything. But even with that, I bet there are other hardware differences.
Why is everyone so hyped about WP7? Doesnt anyone remember how lame windows mobile was? Everytime I see someone post about WP7 its like its going to revolutionize smartphones. Theres not much they can do that already isnt being done. WP7....so lame. And it looks like ATT is trying to jump on that ship first and offer a big selection of handsets at launch....go figure. At least they got something right and got one of the best android phones available for now. Its not great out of the box but with all the roms and mods on XDA its starting to show some real potential.
Smallsmx3 said:
Why is everyone so hyped about WP7?.
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Have to disagree here. Windows Phone 7 is a completely different beast than WM 6 or 6.5. You can't compare the two. Different UIs, different use cases, different applications and core technologies. Everyone's hyped because it seems Microsoft might have finally done something right when it comes to mobile devices. Every tech journalist I've heard talk about their preview WP7 devices has been very happy. And as someone who picked an Android phone because I wanted a choice in how I use it, the possibility of WP7 running on it just adds one more choice.
Why on earth would you ever want a car that's not colored black?
Sending a rocket ship to the moon is preposterous!
Nobody will ever need or want more than 1 MB of RAM on their computer.
I love it when people shoot down ideas without thinking it through to all possible conclusions beyond their own.
I wouldn't mind seeing WP7 getting ported some day. Choices are good.
multi-boot Android, WP7, and IOS4.... Sound kind of cool to me.
hashish16 said:
multi-boot Android, WP7, and IOS4.... Sound kind of cool to me.
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Just add a good DOS emulator (I know DOSBox was being ported some day) in that list and I'll be totally excited.
Windows (and the Windows/Microsoft mentality, design-philosophy and school-of-thought) belong on cell phones even less than it belongs on desktop PCs.
For the love of all that is sane and proper, let cell phones be the clean slate which allow us to break free from Microsoft inertia and influence. Let the handful of remaining Microsoft fanboys fondle their WP7 phones and Zunes while the rest of us move forward.
And linux, unix, posix apps belongs on them even less. Oh, wait...
Stop trying to start Fanboy discussions and OS flame wars. Do you run your phone completely in Terminal? Do you expect a WP7 device to have a start button on the screen? Get viruses? Blue Screen?
Each platform has merits and competition is a good thing in almost every case. Choice on a device designed for one platform being able to run another offers bragging rights for the developers and gives more power back to the community.
I'm for the phone that gives me what I want it to do and the freedom to do it.
IOS = locked into the iWorld of iTunes, extreme DRM, and I can only use the device.
Android = the freedom I wanted at a price. Custom flashing ROMS to even get my device to work as intended. But I can do whatever I want with it and don't have to worry about DRM.
WP7 = locked into the M$ world. Again I think it will be highly restrictive on what you can do. I'm sure there will be people (here on XDA) that will hack it.. but it will still be Windows for your phone - and therefore limited.
I'll stick with my single boot Android device - Although it would have that "nerdy cool factor" to have multiple OS's to boot my phone into... I'd rather have one working OS than 2 or 3 that were buggy as hell.
This has been gone over to death, Will it happen?.....Maybe. Will it be soon I dought it. I left WM for Android due to seeing the road M$ was going down with WP7. I have yet to lay Judgment on WP7 till I can get some hands on time with it but to tell the truth I dont see it being an option for me personally as I hot swap SD cards all time due to diff projects, Class, Work, Music...ect. The inability to do so with WP7 is just a deal breaker for me, not to mention no ETA on copy and past. I see WP7 as an early version of IOS, locked in to many ways while they try to get base functions to work right.
Nobody will ever need or want more than 1 MB of RAM on their computer.
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LOL...once upon a time I had a computer with a 2 gig HDD...I told a friend of mine "There's no way I'll EVER fill this up!!"
sremick said:
Windows (and the Windows/Microsoft mentality, design-philosophy and school-of-thought) belong on cell phones even less than it belongs on desktop PCs.
For the love of all that is sane and proper, let cell phones be the clean slate which allow us to break free from Microsoft inertia and influence. Let the handful of remaining Microsoft fanboys fondle their WP7 phones and Zunes while the rest of us move forward.
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Microsoft being the maker of WP7 has almost nothing to do with Microsoft Windows. How much of Mac OS do you see in the iPhone? Just because someone doesn't like Mac does not mean they will hate the iPhone.
I was thinking this too...
Hardware agnostic smartphones... I wrote about it over at my blog TheProfessorNotes
Excerpt: Since the start of the smartphone experience, the hardware and the operating system have been so tightly integrated that one is hard to distinguish from the other. This started as far back as the Springboard Sprint phone hardware attachment for the Handspring Visor, and continues today with the Windows 7 phones, the iPhone and in reality the Android phone. But what if the phones (hardware) and the soul of the phones, the mobile OS’s, could be separated?
emuneee said:
They are not identical phones. Samsung's WP7 devices (the Focus and Omnia7) use Qualcomm's Snapdragon 1GHz processor. The Galaxy S series uses Samsungs 1GHz Hummingbird processor. I'm guessing we would need WP7 drivers before we could port anything. But even with that, I bet there are other hardware differences.
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Did they prove that the Focus has a snapdragon? I knew the Omina7 did, but the last spec sheet i saw said the Focus was unknown. It would still be a pretty darn close match with the graphics being the only potential problem....
Everyone keeps bashing on Microsoft but I see no problem with them? I'm currently on Windows 7 and I can customize the daylights out of it. So, is there really a problem?
Besides, Windows 7 is going to be a serious gaming platform, as this is Microsoft's entry into the mobile gaming world. So...the most powerful phone out...with a gaming OS...sounds like a major win to me!
I'm just a little shocked to hear some people that use Android, meant to enable freedom to the user, say that our Android phones shouldn't be allowed to run other software that's not Android.
That simply baffles the mind.
"I don't like Microsoft, therefore nobody else should be able to run Microsoft products on their Android phones even though it will in no way affect the usage of my own phone."
*sigh*
sschrupp said:
I'm just a little shocked to hear some people that use Android, meant to enable freedom to the user, say that our Android phones shouldn't be allowed to run other software that's not Android.
That simply baffles the mind.
"I don't like Microsoft, therefore nobody else should be able to run Microsoft products on their Android phones even though it will in no way affect the usage of my own phone."
*sigh*
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I'll drink to that
The hardest part would be getting the hummingbird processor to work with the windows 7 platform. I wouldn't mind a dual boot phone though. Android/wm7/ios.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
WP7 OS requires a hardware PVK chip on-board in-order to function at all. That will be the hardest part. Even the ppl hacking HTC HD2 can only get it to operate in DEMO only mode because of the lacking of that chip.
I bought my first android, a galaxy 3, about a year and a half ago... I was so excited I had a "mobile Linux" in my hand... Being a Linux user for some time I thought that I would have (almost) the same capabilities with my mobile....
After a one week I came down to earth. The only thing in common with Linux in android, is the Linux kernel. Let me explain:
In my pc, I can compile any Linux distro, or kernel, from the source, install it on my hardware, reboot, and have it working just as I want, with all the features I enabled/disabled during the build. When I started thinking of buying an adroid phone, I thought I could do exactly the same. Well, I was mistaken.
It's ok with me now. I discovered how android and Google works. But still something is not right.
The biggest "advantages" android has to offer were, and still are, that it is free (as in free speech, not free beer - thank you Mr. Stallman) and open.
Well IS it?
Google is giving away the source code, thus making it available for anyone to build it. Ok. The real problem is what you can do with the resulting build. In theory, if you flash a generic build to a phone, it should boot up and make calls. And that's it. Forget about GPS, wifi, Bluetooth. If you want to use them, you have to build a kernel with the source code provided by the OEMs and the best part is that the source has to be for the same version you are building. Thus it is almost impossible for an average user to build android for their device, if the OEM won't provide an official update to the version they want to build.
You'll say that the drivers are proprietary and OEMs don't give them. I can understand that, but what I really can't understand is why proprietary blobs for 2.3 won't work with android 4. I mean drivers are the same, aren't they? Yes, the kernels are different BUT hardware remains the same...
You'll say "get a Nexus". Yes, you as right it seems to be the best solution, but nexus one has the same fate as other phones.
A new android build only works in an emulator. I just wish it could work the same on every model. The OEMs don't have to open source drivers, just give us blobs that work with every android version. One other problem with some OEMs is the locked bootloader. I build android for a device, but due to locked bootloader I can't flash it....wait what? It is MY phone you piece of ****!!
So imo android is neither "free", nor "open". Where is freedom and openess when I can't flash any given device with any given android version? Sorry, but customisability and theming are just not enough.
Google also claims that android comes free of charge. Well, the source is, but the source alone, without being able to use it on a device, is useless. So, in order to have the latest android I have to pay roughly €500-€600 each year... (maybe once in two years if I choose nexus). Only I see a rip-off here? Google should work with OEMs and make generic builds to run on every device, just like Linux. Android is capable of this for sure.
I still like android, and continue to use it. It can't be compared to wp or ios. But I strongly believe that since we paid our devices we should be able to do whatever we want with it.
Thanks for reading guys and girls. These thoughts wee in my head for some time and I wanted to let them out...
Sent from my amazing 10.1 galaxy tab
You got point there, but nothing in this world is for free. Everybody needs to make money somehow. And that is the way of Google. I am glad with what is Android capable of and the extras we got from them. Compared to the other OS we can say that we are free
Well its pretty much the most "versatile" CELL OS outthere
Sent from my R800i using Tapatalk 2
Although OP is right, I consider Andorid much more 'Open' then iOS. Just the sheer number of people developing ROMs, kernels, etc. shows how much easier it is to develop for Android then iOS. How many custom ROMs are there for iOS? The answer is none. So while the separation of versions, different vendors, and different providers may be holding the platform back, nothing is perfect, and from a development perspective, we have to realize that Android id much more 'Free" then iOS.
Jeteroll said:
Although OP is right, I consider Andorid much more 'Open' then iOS. Just the sheer number of people developing ROMs, kernels, etc. shows how much easier it is to develop for Android then iOS. How many custom ROMs are there for iOS? The answer is none. So while the separation of versions, different vendors, and different providers may be holding the platform back, nothing is perfect, and from a development perspective, we have to realize that Android id much more 'Free" then iOS.
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Yes! That's absolutely right. I just wanted to point out that it would be best if we could treat android just like our Linux distros. Oh well, I'd like to believe that the time when we will have a trully open source phone is close...
Sent from my amazing 10.1 galaxy tab
Panos_dm said:
Yes! That's absolutely right. I just wanted to point out that it would be best if we could treat android just like our Linux distros. Oh well, I'd like to believe that the time when we will have a trully open source phone is close...
Sent from my amazing 10.1 galaxy tab
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But what about Android users who never used desktop Linux before?
OptimusLove said:
But what about Android users who never used desktop Linux before?
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I never said anything about changing the ui or the interaction with the phone. Just expanding its capabilities.
Sent from my amazing 10.1 galaxy tab
Android is definitely freeer than say iOS. However that comes at a price. The sheer amount of android devices and versions makes it harder for developers to work with it compared to iOS which is limited to a couple of devices.
It just depends on what you are happy to put up with as a user. Wiht Android you are not restricted to what you can do with the phone, whereas on iOS you are serverely restricted.
OptimusLove said:
But what about Android users who never used desktop Linux before?
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Click to collapse
Looks like its time to put on your learning cap.
Sent for a corner cell in Arkham
I just saw an ad on TV for an android device on one of the big us carriers (I forget which one) and it was really bad. It made me realize something I've never agreed with before: that indeed android fragmentation is a hinderence.
Hear me out. Obviously being an active xda member I'm pro-android, but most people with android devices aren't on xda and wont root or even use a different launcher. So that is why I realize carriers like Verizon or whoever have to show generic commercials with no or little focus on the actual operation system. Don't get me wrong, I'm not sticking up for the carriers, they are the ones that take forever to update android versions. But they don't have to. That's the "beauty" of android.
But this has never been more of an issue than right now, I argue. Android 4.2.x is excellent and beautiful. It is the first time an iPhone user could try android and actually feel like it could be in the same competition as iOS in terms of looks and general UI. Meanwhile only a very tiny percent of android users have the latest version.
So to bring it back around to the commercial I saw, which goes for pretty much all android commercials I've ever seen, they do not display android at all! Its always generic futuristic music and background fx and distractions. Meanwhile iOS always shows a closeup of the phone with a mere finger navigating the os.
The ironic thing is that android is better now! But carriers take months or a year to update so they can only advertise their ****ty versions of android which are always stale at the time so instead they just show the phone dancing to dubstep music in front of lightning. They should be showing how Google Now is already way better than siri, how the notification drop down was started by Android (taken by iOS) and is now beautiful and functional, and how the recents button has become essential, not just usable.
There should be a SHORT grace period for carriers to update to the newest version of Android. Only then will they realize that their biggest asset isn't their ability to have 20 different android phones, or their attempt at theming a ROM (sense, touchwiz), but you actually have the best operating system out now! You just don't have the latest version because you're a phone network company and not a software development company.
But I put the blame on android because surely they are able to have a bit more control over how the big carriers manipulate their os? Why wouldn't a company like Verizon want to display the freshest os and advertise that they have the newest version of android and will always be this first to update because they don't change a thing? They would advertise that if Google had some sort or mandate on update time periods. Then android wouldn't always be thought of as the poor mans iOS .
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
The problem is, I don't think the average user - the one you're talking about - cares about "updates". They're just something annoying that happens and you have to restart your phone for a while. They don't care if it has the "newest" Android OS, just that it does what they want - this is the rest of my family feels, and even some of my friends who ARE interested in tech.
My dad couldn't give a crap if he has ICS or JB and wouldn't be able to tell the difference. If you put 4.2 in front of him, I doubt he could tell you the difference without spending half an hour hunting it down - and after that, I would question if the changes are anything he would actually care about. That kind of a user doesn't really WANT fast change - they care that things are familiar and easy to use, they don't want to have to re-learn parts of their phone in a few months - that's one thing I can give to iOS - as boring as it is, it's well, the same.
People have always said that one particular iteration of Android is when it's "finally ready to take on iOS". I think ICS is fine in that regard. iOS is so stylistically "stagnant" that Android really doesn't have to do much to match it. The advantage of iOS is that it's always the same, that it's not changing, that you can upgrade your phone hardware and still have everything work exactly the way you knew.
"Constantly updating" appeals to tech geeks who love learning new things and better ways to use them - and that's what the Nexus line is for - that's what flashing ROMs is for. People that want that find it.
Basically, your average Android phone shopper is Windows, not Linux. They're there because they want a phone that fits their needs and price-point - something Apple isn't offering. Sure, some people are Windows people for other reasons - but we're talking the average person who just wants a computer they can afford that "just works".
A good example is my mom - I just helped her buy a tablet. She was a little afraid of the idea of an Android tablet because she had no brand familiarity. She'd seen people using iPads to do what she wanted, and was worried because she'd never heard of ASUS and better knew Samsung as an appliance-maker. These ads, the most important thing they can do is just get people to recognise the name. There have been studies done on this, and it's true - getting people to know your brand's name is one of the best things you can do. That way, the "average Joe" goes into the store and thinks, "Hey, that's Samsung - I've heard of that" and the human brain tends to go, "I've heard of that, so it must be good" - true or not. They aren't looking at the specs and comparing, they're looking for a device they can trust. Trust starts with familiarity. The iPhone came from a company that already had name-recognition, but they grew that into a much larger market by using exclusivity and ease of use. It's like with liquor - people see an expensive liquor and assume that it must be a better liquor. Simply jacking up prices has totally worked for some brands to gain success. I'm not even kidding. People do this with expensive purses and jeans and crap, too - even if it's all made in the same exact Chinese factories.
Um.
Sorry for the novel.
tl;dr : Our brains are often illogical
sd0070 said:
Android 4.2.x is excellent and beautiful. It is the first time an iPhone user could try android and actually feel like it could be in the same competition as iOS in terms of looks and general UI.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android has been able to compete in looks and general UI since 4.0 IMO, and easily since 2.2 with Sense. Smoothness is a completely different factor, but the actual look and feel of Android has been decent for a while. iOS isn't even a UI anymore, it's an app launcher and that is all. You can't do anything at all in iOS outside of the apps, which is frankly pathetic. iOS works as Apple wants it to, Android works like you want it to.
As a developer I do think Android fragmentation is a huge issue. I agree that Android 4.0+ is nice looking and has some very nice API's however developing Android applications that run consistently accross different devices is very difficult. I find more and more that a good portion of my code ends up being wrappers and reflection calls to support API's and classes not found in previous Android versions. For example, If I want to add media player lock-screen controls to my application it's not a problem in Android 4.0+ but the class isn't available in versions below 4.0. So, what am I supposed to do? Do I release a version to the play store and say my application supports lock screen controls ONLY if you run a specific version of Android? That certainly won't ecourage people to use the application. Just my opinion.
I agree it can be a problem for development.
However, I think it's reasonable to say, "this feature will only work on 4.0+" - people are used to that, if you have a Windows 98 machine still, I hope you're not expecting to be able to run everything a Windows 7 machine could, for example. I see things like designations requiring XP/Vista/7, et cetera on packages - I don't think it's unreasonable that at some point Android is the same - you can only reasonably support so far back because at some point it's just not worth your time.
If it's possible to implement below 4.0 and it's worth your time to make it happen - that's the cost of business to decide if it's worth it or not to support the older devices based on what your market looks like.
What do you think when someone asks you about the worst part about Android? Chances are, Android fragmentation is one of the first things that flies through your head. But I've been thinking about it and I haven't noticed anything to suggest that I am not alone.
It is well known that Android owns the smartphone market globally. It has done this by being open source. This has become it's greatest strength and it greatest weakness. For the first point, it is currently on over a billion devices all over the world. As for the second, I think you can guess: fragmentation. God knows how many different companies have taken Android and twisted it to their laggy and unsupported preference. I would really like to point towards the manufacturers that basically releases a new phone every month to three months. These include Samsung, Blu, and countless others. Here looks like a good place to say that I HATE THOSE LITTLE COMPANIES WITH THEIR CRAP TABLETS ON AMAZON. Anyway, Samsung probably is the worst right? With their big fancy skin and slow updates....well look at Blu! They have at least two dozen phones, tablets, and everything in between, most of which don't get a single update (to the next large update like 5.0, 5.1, etc. This doesn't include small patches, though I'm sure that they don't give many of those). Now I know that this is starting to turn into a rant, but that's OK. I'm almost ready to point out my...point. :l
If any of your friends, co-workers, acquaintances have iPhones, you might have heard the "why does my iPhone 4 on iOS 6 not support this app" complaint (or something similar). I've found that most apps work with Android Jelly Bean, ICS, or even Gingerbread, all of which are as old or older than iOS 6. Android apps support older versions of Android better than iOS does, which has very few fragmentation problems. Quick note: Some people haven't updated their iDevices to the newest version, so please don't give me crap for it. So that is my first supporting argument, which is a little harder to go against than my final point.
Quick recap: there to many different skinned versions of Android. This might seem to contradict my rage about "THOSE LITTLE COMPANIES WITH THEIR CRAP TABLETS ON AMAZON", but no one cares since most people probably agree with me on that. We should all calm down about the slow updates on our devices. Don't get angry at me and say that I must have a Nexus or a Motorola and I've never known the struggle; I have the LG Optimus G AT&T version and it hasn't gotten the official Kitkat release. Actually, I haven't even gotten an official update since 4.1.2. Thanks to custom ROMs, I'm on Lollipop right now. But that isn't the point. Maybe we shouldn't think of Android as "be together, not he same", but more like "be not the same, not together." That didn't quite work the way I hoped...
So I'm starting to think of Android a only a base and that we should think of skinned versions of Android more like Linux and it's distros. Ubuntu is based off Linux, but it isn't Linux (not actually sure if there is a pure Linux...would it be text based?). It rather another creation of it. The candied named Android versions are just new standards and aren't really necessary. I'm pretty sure that Samsung could take the current version and just add the security and new features in as they need it. Well, maybe some dev could correct me on that? Anyway, I'd like to end this summing up this thread (b/c it isn't very organized to my eyes) by saying that it's OK that you don't have the newest update and that Samsung really should add in the new features if not update the whole OS.
:silly: