Related
OK so i know this is the wrong forum, BUT I came across this and wanted to "bump" it so to speak. This was posted by kyphur in 08 and in a mods sig now. Please read and adhere to the spirit of the post. It is RIGHT ON!!!
I think what a lot of people forget is that this is not a "make my phone neat & kewl" place.
As implied by the name this is technically a Developers forum/community.
Now what does that mean? Well first off it means that there is an expectation that if you are here then you want to customize your device but rather than just installing something that someone packaged you want to understand how it works and maybe even enhance it yourself.
When I first came here with a Blue Angel it was a different environment. PDA Phones were not embraced by the general public because of the expense and complexity (I paid over $400 for my BA). A $400 phone 4 years ago was expensive, today the Tilt is $300 after rebates but with inflation & the rise in the cost of other devices and the fact that there are other sources out there giving them away for $150 our neat bit of kit has become popular with mainstream users.
Now we have a flood of new users who are asking not "How can I do this myself" but more like "Give me the quick fix" without caring to understand the process. See if you read the threads then you get to experience the learning process, you see how the issues were investigated and confirmed. Then you get to watch the different attempts at resolution and learn why some failed while others worked. That is called Development.
The NooB backlash is coming from users who have walked in the development shoes and is directed mainly at those who don't care for the journey but just want the end result or destination.
As a Development Forum we are just as much (if not more) about the journey. I've read so many comments like "I don't have time to read all of the threads" or "I don't care how it works, just that it does". These very statements are contrary to the heart & soul of XDA-Devs and that is why the backlash is so strong.
Let me be very clear on this: IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THE JOURNEY THEN YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
XDA-Devs is about developers & hackers helping each other and working together to get the most out of our devices by understanding them better than most.
XDA-Devs is not about helping everyone who wants a "Kewl bit of kit" make their phone better than the guy next to him.
Now do we go kicking users off who never contribute anything, NO. We tolerate it to an extent. Where the toleration ends is when these users start diluting the usefulness of the forum by repeating the same questions over and over again.
You ask us to understand your position. Well if you want to benefit from our experience and time then I think it is only fair that you understand our position.
Maybe you can recommend an alternative site for people who just want the newest tweaks and software.
the idea is not that only developers should be looking at this site, but that this is a place where developers communicate with each other and the beneficiaries of their work. This is not the place for someone to post threads about general questions about how to use or mod their device. This is a place that will develop the capabilities of the android platform if it is allowed. Developers WILL abandon this forum if it becomes a bulletin board or a technical support site.....and if you need a question answered, there are other forums on THIS site to address those.
Agreed 100%. While developing for the Windows mobile, I also got the same thing. I would post a thread and WARN people of a certain things and tell them how to fix it. Then I'd get 30 pages of "geeze, you broke something. how do you fix it?" That gets annoying real fast. I would love it if this forum forced people to take a test before they could post in the development sections... Before that, they should only be able to post in the regular sections.
One thing that really bugs me is the fact that the newbs don't want to search but don't realize that they take OUR time to search FOR them. No one knows everything. Every developer on this site searches and learns. I know that if you put together all the time that I've spent on this site JUST researching and searching, it'd be MONTHS and MONTHS of non-stop, no sleep searching and researching. So why can't the average person search for 2 minutes? Is their time worth more than my time?
/rant - while talking on the phone so it might not make sense...
Pinesal said:
Maybe you can recommend an alternative site for people who just want the newest tweaks and software.
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There are thousands, but essentially all they do is copy stuff off here.
Like the post said, if you just want to root your phone so it can do 'cool stuff' and not give a **** about how the damn thing works then maybe you shouldn't be modding your phone (that wasn't aimed at you btw, just 'people' in general the market place is made up of 99% 'these people' who don't/can't read and it's pretty irritating.)
Agree with the post 100%, fantastic
we sadly are living in the (ME) world
there is such a huge gape beetween the 10-19 generation and 20-29
10-19 generation is living in such an easy world, they never had to blow into their nintendo cassettes , know how heavy a quantum bigfoot is or what RTFM mean's
You said it, this is in the wrong forum.
You're not an admin and although you can spend your time here (and pretty much all of your posts) reporting out-of-place threads, you're still not an admin.
People always wonder into communities and it always takes a while to learn the way things work. Mickey is doing a good job on closing and moving threads that are unrelated to development.
With that said...
Reported.
Agreed. It's really, really, really, really getting to me. I wish OP's had semi-moderator power. They could at least delete all necessary posts and ban that user - if required- for a certain amount of time from their thread only.
jubeh said:
You said it, this is in the wrong forum.
You're not an admin and although you can spend your time here (and pretty much all of your posts) reporting out-of-place threads, you're still not an admin.
People always wonder into communities and it always takes a while to learn the way things work. Mickey is doing a good job on closing and moving threads that are unrelated to development.
With that said...
Reported.
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ughh, no i'm not an admin, and no almost all my posts, or the majority, or a half are reported threads, but i do try to help out the mods when i can. they are not on all forums at all times and can use the help, and they have said as much.
Oh thank you thank you! People here should want to understand why thing the work as they work. Not just want their phones to look cool.
As it you wouldnt know it, i have been with xda for years well since the titan came out. before that i was modding an ipaq and of course the old palms. everyonce in awhile i lose interest and move on only to come back when i have something new(major a.d.d). i do write java as well as c and even c++(so on) i typically find this place useful to try stuff out and even set up my own custom rom just for me. i dont post because i can google. while i have many of my own questions i would like answered i simply dont ask most of the time(such as using micro kernels and modding app2sd to make the os have two options sd in or out. however the problem is not the generations or age difference or anything like that. its social systems outside of xda. posting a reply used to mean an answer or something useful. now its normal to simply post "great job". thats nice and all but maybe instead of complaining about it we should come up with a new system that improves xda. like a sorting system or sub thread system and set up catagorys for our replys. like thumbs up would be for the "good job". i know its hard to keep everyone happy but this is a forum first, a forum has design problems when you get the number of people xda has. use advanced search it helps a lot. a sorting system with requirements for certain catagorys would help devs. its not easy modding and getting it right and you cant do it alone. xda is the help even if its not your phone sometimes others have solutions too. such as winmo users putting android on their phones(yes i did it too my old titan for fun). things i learned and other devs learn can help us and vice versa. i have yet to find bad technology only poorly thought out ideas that could have been. which is why we mod.
p.s. wtf is up with palm and blackberry ads all the time.
Most of those kids just want the answer or fix in the next 3min. with perfect steps or a patch that supposedly will fix and hack their device,after that they´ll never show up.
All they want is to show off without bothering to read.
I totaly understand. I do feel sometimes that certain devs do get a bit annoyed with people who just want to fix the phone and not understand. I'm not linux or coding wiz. But whe I got here in may I was one of the people who just wanted me phone to be better than urs. I still have that to some extent but I have developed more of a "how and what is causeing this issue" attitude. I try to contribute as best as I can. Helping out over at q&a as best as I can. I enjoy xda and without my days would be more boring than what the are now. I dunno I guess I'm just rambling. Bottom line is I have tried to correct my attitude toward modding. Hell I even post my email so users can drop a line if they need help.
i am 20 and i fondly remember blowing into my nes super nes and genesis games.
i am pretty new to XDA. when i first found this site all i wanted was a quick fix. now i am getting more intrested in the actual dev aspect. i want to be able to create my own rom eventualy. yes i do find myself asking stupid questions and getting some foul responses but in my opinion no question is a stupid one. only the one not asked. yes alot of people just want a fix but there are new users who want to learn. like me. so i appreciate the help i have recieved from most members. and i alwasy appoligise for my stupidity. so dont get down on all noobs because alot of us want to learn and the only way to is to ask.
saprano614 said:
i am pretty new to XDA. when i first found this site all i wanted was a quick fix. now i am getting more intrested in the actual dev aspect. i want to be able to create my own rom eventualy. yes i do find myself asking stupid questions and getting some foul responses but in my opinion no question is a stupid one. only the one not asked. yes alot of people just want a fix but there are new users who want to learn. like me. so i appreciate the help i have recieved from most members. and i alwasy appoligise for my stupidity. so dont get down on all noobs because alot of us want to learn and the only way to is to ask.
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nobody is getting down on noobs. ONLY the site users who FAIL to post questions and general comments in the correct forum
jaaronmoody said:
nobody is getting down on noobs. ONLY the site users who FAIL to post questions and general comments in the correct forum
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Just want to make a statement befor someone did.
I thank you for this post. I came to this forum a long time ago I have learned quite a bit and appreciate everything that is done here. There are very skillful people that are on here and I wish I had the amount of skill then thesemodders, hackers, developers etc... have I keep my mouth shut unless i feel there is some thing that i know how to answer, i have never complained about a single rom i simply research what can be done to change for fix it, all answers rely in a search somewhere either here or google. I just wish other people would do the same then we would be able to prevent a 300+ page threads where only about 25 pages are worth anything.
look at the amount of posts from someone who knows they are barley able to contrubute(but do what he can) and been here this long. compared to people who have been here dont have much to contribute but love to post everything that comes to thier minds.
Join Date
22nd October 2006
Total Posts
89
samygent said:
we sadly are living in the (ME) world
there is such a huge gape beetween the 10-19 generation and 20-29
10-19 generation is living in such an easy world, they never had to blow into their nintendo cassettes , know how heavy a quantum bigfoot is or what RTFM mean's
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Click to collapse
HEY!
im 18 and clearly remember blowing into those damn games to make them work. but when they worked, so much fun i still think theyre better than the crappy xbox and ps3 games of today... but thats just me. lol
pleeease yall! let's keep THIS thread on topic! LOL!!
so i thought this was to help each other out and for the guys making the roms to gets some beer hahaha J/k you guys are doing a great job but i see a lot of people *****ing about gps come up dude buy a freaking tom tom or something and people being mean to newbies not everyone knows what you know so why not be cool and help and a lot of people do i know they have helped me but for the % that don't man ya'll should think
about how you act everyone is human no one here is a android well maybe D.G. (Keep them roms coming bro you are killing it) anyways i'm just saying it doesn't hurt to be nice
Dfuse06, period. Period, dfuse06.
Now that you're acquainted, I suggest you use him.
dfuse06 said:
so i thought this was to help each other out and for the guys making the roms to gets some beer hahaha J/k you guys are doing a great job but i see a lot of people *****ing about gps come up dude buy a freaking tom tom or something and people being mean to newbies not everyone knows what you know so why not be cool and help and a lot of people do i know they have helped me but for the % that don't man ya'll should thing about how you act everyone is human no one here is a android well maybe D.G. (Keep them roms coming bro you are killing it) anyways i'm just saying it doesn't hurt to be nice
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Just remember that "help" is different from "handout". People that ask for help that have actually tried to do something and are having problems - get help.
People that come here and ask "tell me how" without trying first or even using the search tools - they want a handout. it is hard to be nice to the people with the paper cups and their hands out - work a little bit like the rest of us.
Most people achieve by learning, not by hand outs.
alphadog00 said:
Just remember that "help" is different from "handout". People that ask for help that have actually tried to do something and are having problems - get help.
People that come here and ask "tell me how" without trying first or even using the search tools - they want a handout. it is hard to be nice to the people with the paper cups and their hands out - work a little bit like the rest of us.
Most people achieve by learning, not by hand outs.
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Although I agree to a point you have to wonder how much less [email protected]$&ing, complaining, and angry posts you'd see in threads if one person would simply answer a person's question fully. As it is now if a person asks a question chances are you'll then see 4-7 posts of other users yelling at them to use the search feature, or to read back 500 pages, etc.
I think what it comes down to is you have two types of people. Type 1 does the research and then asks questions (which still tend to get nasty replies) to clarify. Then Type 2 people that are either incapable of doing proper searching due to language barriers or inexperience or that are too lazy. Type 2 people don't get the answer they need after the 4-7 nasty posts so end up asking again getting another 4-7 nasty posts and in the end didn't learn anything anyways.
I seriously think our threads in this community would be much shorter and cleaner if people stopped posting the complaints and cryptic "Go back 500 pages and read the 3rd post newb" and just simply answered the questions that they're obviously able to.
I mean you're (nobody in particular) taking the time to post a nasty message anyhow, so why not change it from a nasty message that spawns more messages and ugly debate and simply give a good answer?
The upside to that philosophy? Threads would contain less useless information, questions and their answers would be easier to find, so less questions would end up being asked.
That's my opinion anyhow. And I know it's pretty much impossible to expect such utopian behavior when it comes to online forums where everyone wants to express what they're thinking whether it helps a situation or not. But wouldn't it be nice?
@sschrupp
I agree with you, but how many times do people say "I don't want to read 10 pages of posts, just tell me how"?
The truth is, that those 10 pages have more info then one person can respond to with a quick "tell me how" answer. All the pitfalls, bricks, and other known issues are usually in those 10 pages. If the lazy actually read the full thread, we would eliminate the other 15 subsequent posts they make when they screw up or run into known issues.
XDA used to represent the people that really liked to hack and had the skills and desire to figure out how things worked. Now it is home to every noob with a smartphone. I was noob once too, but before posting, i read everything i could to try and figure things out. Then i would ask for details about something i didn't understand.
Anyway, must my opinion. I so appreciate stickies like the "Captivate bible" but no one reads it. how many posts do we see on "how do i get back to stock?" More peeps looking for handouts.
I have been lurking these forums for about a year (mainly HTC Kaiser...now Captivate). I find most of my answers by searching and reading. I understand why it might get frustrating when people ask the same question over and over when they are answered in stickies or previous posts, but at the same time I am just curious as what one needs to do to prove that they have done this. I search every problem I have...but what if I can't find an answer. Is "I have searched the forums and have been unable to find the answer" enough? What can one do to safely ask a question without being ridiculed for it's seemingly obvious answer?
jfsouthward said:
I have been lurking these forums for about a year (mainly HTC Kaiser...now Captivate). I find most of my answers by searching and reading. I understand why it might get frustrating when people ask the same question over and over when they are answered in stickies or previous posts, but at the same time I am just curious as what one needs to do to prove that they have done this. I search every problem I have...but what if I can't find an answer. Is "I have searched the forums and have been unable to find the answer" enough? What can one do to safely ask a question without being ridiculed for it's seemingly obvious answer?
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What I'll do is tell what search terms I used. Google is great, if you know what to search for. Also, I use the 3 day rule. Give it three days, if I haven't found it by then, then ask. Plus thread jacking is ok to ask a quick question. But I don't put a simple question in general. I use q&a or off topic. Those are just my own rules for myself.
From a phone
jfsouthward said:
I have been lurking these forums for about a year (mainly HTC Kaiser...now Captivate). I find most of my answers by searching and reading. I understand why it might get frustrating when people ask the same question over and over when they are answered in stickies or previous posts, but at the same time I am just curious as what one needs to do to prove that they have done this. I search every problem I have...but what if I can't find an answer. Is "I have searched the forums and have been unable to find the answer" enough? What can one do to safely ask a question without being ridiculed for it's seemingly obvious answer?
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I can't offer any right answer, but people should stop taking offense when they are ridiculed.
If someone can show you the answer (or point you in the right direction) and then give you hard time because they found it using the site search tools, then don't feel bad.
Too many people get bent of shape and whine because someone called them a name or gave them a hard time. People don't refuse to help; but they may chastise for not doing your own work.
I was just curious. I never get bent out of shape when it comes to online interaction. It is what it is...faceless and nameless, which just makes it easier to be a prick. Getting miffed is an effort in futility.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
If people think these forums are bad, join some automotive forums.
From a phone
I've been trying to figure things out for my Captivate as well. I read and search before I post yet people are still reluctant to help. I'm like all on my own when it comes to the problems or questions I have.
geokilla said:
I've been trying to figure things out for my Captivate as well. I read and search before I post yet people are still reluctant to help. I'm like all on my own when it comes to the problems or questions I have.
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Perhaps they just don't have the answer to your questions. Or it could be that the answers have been posted numerous times prior to your asking.
geokilla said:
I've been trying to figure things out for my Captivate as well. I read and search before I post yet people are still reluctant to help. I'm like all on my own when it comes to the problems or questions I have.
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Why do you say people are reluctant to help? It looks like you have replies to your posts.
jfsouthward said:
I have been lurking these forums for about a year (mainly HTC Kaiser...now Captivate). I find most of my answers by searching and reading. I understand why it might get frustrating when people ask the same question over and over when they are answered in stickies or previous posts, but at the same time I am just curious as what one needs to do to prove that they have done this. I search every problem I have...but what if I can't find an answer. Is "I have searched the forums and have been unable to find the answer" enough? What can one do to safely ask a question without being ridiculed for it's seemingly obvious answer?
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Click to collapse
I can't offer any right answer, but people should stop taking offense when they are ridiculed.
If someone can show you the answer (or point you in the right direction) and then give you hard time because they found it using the site search tools, then don't feel bad.
Too many people get bent of shape and whine because someone called them a name or gave them a hard time. People don't refuse to help; but they may chastise for not doing your own work.
Dude, seriously, I read your questions and posted the links to prove the point that you aren't searching as you claim you are. Stop whining and complaining when there are dozens of thread slready posted with the answers to your questions. Don't take it personally when you are called out for not searching. I've been called out for it when I missed an obvious answer to a question, I spend a lot of time on here following threads and I have a life and work full time and have a family so it really unerves me when anyone says oh I don't have time to read 100+ pages, so you basically do it for me. I am not saying you did this but a lot have and then they eff up their phones and then need help, could've saved us all a lot of reading and shorten threads by everyone reading the threads before asking questions.
We all know where this is going.
Thread Closed
i dont understand this here forum, (redneck voice)...
while ive been here, in the last 2-3 days ive encountered the following:
1) horrible attitudes and question answering. not that the questions weren't being answered, just the way they were being answered. if a noob asks a question, let him ask. but we all know how easy it is for us to look cooler by bashing them.
2) Inappropriate use of language and shameful and offensive harassment. now passive as it may, calling a ROM "Gay" for not having xxx feature is wrong.so is calling said members "******s" even better?
3) trolls trolls trolls. if we have nothing nice to say lets at least keep it civil.
although we could all go on all night over something, this i sno way to have a thread. ive been in many other forums, and i can honestly say none are as bad as this one. if this is the way the i727 forum will conduct its business consider me gone. although i am not much help to the communtiy, i do love the Dev work. but if its at the cost of seeing a horrible thread such as this i think im better off stock.
d
it comes and it goes. hang in there and find a good way to contribute in the meantime
cdromo90 said:
i dont understand this here forum, (redneck voice)...
while ive been here, in the last 2-3 days ive encountered the following:
1) horrible attitudes and question answering. not that the questions weren't being answered, just the way they were being answered. if a noob asks a question, let him ask. but we all know how easy it is for us to look cooler by bashing them.
2) Inappropriate use of language and shameful and offensive harassment. now passive as it may, calling a ROM "Gay" for not having xxx feature is wrong.so is calling said members "******s" even better?
3) trolls trolls trolls. if we have nothing nice to say lets at least keep it civil.
although we could all go on all night over something, this i sno way to have a thread. ive been in many other forums, and i can honestly say none are as bad as this one. if this is the way the i727 forum will conduct its business consider me gone. although i am not much help to the communtiy, i do love the Dev work. but if its at the cost of seeing a horrible thread such as this i think im better off stock.
d
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5 Months and 14 posts???? This is by far the most deticated forum to the HELP and DEVELOPMENT for the largest selection of mobile devices and devices alike. I am not bashing you but after you have been around for awhile and contribute to this forum then your opinion with come with more value. There are many people on here that do help and are very generous but the are few and far between that are oh not so friendly (and I stress few and far between). If you are a noob then it would help to read the NOOB STICKIES to find out more about your device and learn your way around instead of just jumping in with no intelect or know how of how to use this forum properly. I have only been here for 4 years (actually 4 years ago today), I have tested hundrends of ROMs on lots of devices and have donated hundreds to the developers who help make this possible. Even though I have been through and done the forementioned I myself still read through the stickies to find out more information about the device at hand. You can never gain too much knowledge or know too much about what you are doing. There are weeks maybe even months woth of guides and stickes on this forum. If you need information about your device i'd say there is a 98% chance that someone has already gone through the same thing and has a solution to the problem. The best thing to do here is READ READ READ and try to find out on your own to solve your problem before just logging in and asking questions about something that has been answered because you are too lazy to look yourself. Hopefully you stick around and leanr more and see what this forum is all about. Don't let some asshats ruin it for you. They will be weeded out and generally the situation is solved pretty quickly. There are always someone somewhere that makes things difficult at some point.
If you have a problem with a post or thread hit the report button and let us (moderators) know whats going on. You also need to understand this forum is not a service center we are not here to make your phone cooler or get you out of your mess for not reading (that's 90% of the "HELP" threads or post) so if someone asks something that has been covered before most people will help you out not always as cheerful, but they do. Yes there are trolls, always will be but that's your job to report. We can't read every single post all day (2 moderators vs how many Skyrocket users?) so you guys have to help out. Will be locking this thread as its not really Skyrocket related (just your personal rant) about the community.
Cheers
I understand that here, on XDA, you get nice and civilized answers if your thanks-meter is high. My question is: Is the XDA strategy built to make users leave XDA for other communities? Or is it just that the arrogance is directly proportional with the thanks-meter?
Ruwin said:
I understand that here, on XDA, you get nice and civilized answers if your thanks-meter is high. My question is: Is the XDA strategy built to make users leave XDA for other communities? Or is it just that the arrogance is directly proportional with the thanks-meter?
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I understand that here, on XDA, you get nice and civilized answers if your thanks-meter is high.
Not really true.
Is the XDA strategy built to make users leave XDA for other communities?
There is no XDA strategy. It's just a place for people to tinker with their phones.
Or is it just that the arrogance is directly proportional with the thanks-meter?
No it is not directly proportional to the thanks meter.
There are a lot of grumpy people around though.
I think the best thing you can do is to report arrogance and hope the user gets some sort of warning. I have also witnessed some comments that were unnecessary and that could really put new users off asking questions here. That is a real shame imo.
dc211 said:
There are a lot of grumpy people around though.
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Dmwitz said:
I have also witnessed some comments that were unnecessary and that could really put new users off asking questions here.
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+1 to these, some people who are new just don't understand how the forum layouts and whatnot work, but rather than being more polite about it, the more experienced ones go off at the new people. Pretty hard for the new people to get help that way.
Tapatalked from my HTC One S running CM10
I only really see "arrogance" displayed in two fashions:
1. The occasional Dev war drama. This really only happens rarely and has settled down quite a bit since some ROM devs have moved on to other devices.
2. Noob squashing. The fact is, Android is a victim of it's own success. In the G1 days, XDA was a true home for hackers to exchange information. Now that Android has such a large worldwide marketshare, more and more folks are coming here to enhance their devices and free them from their cell provider's greed and bad decisions, regardless of their technical level. I'd bet the CM10 thread could be condensed into a one page FAQ which would eliminate hundreds of pages of repeat questions, but in reality, the types of people that frustrate us so much wouldn't even take the time to read that. The only solution here is help or ignore...flaming just triples the number of pages dedicated to a noob mistake.
You get nasty responses when you refuse to read and the question has been asked soo many times.. or you post a question in the general section... or break any rules
I've had people not read the downgrade thread and pm asking what to do.. when if you read it, you realize its nearly noob proof
Sent from my HTC One X-
I think that one of the problems is that the pros try to distance themselves from the noobs. The problem with that is that the noobs will only feel more ignored and try harder to get their voice heard. It's a problem almost all forums have, but it seems more serious here on xda than anywhere else I've been. I think much of the talent here gets wasted. Answers get hidden away deep in overly long topics and poor communication skills make things worse.
I get the feeling that many of the threads here would have worked better in wiki-form, where each issue has its own page, instead of each topic.
But these are just a noob's impression after a few days here.
el_smurfo said:
The only solution here is help or ignore...flaming just triples the number of pages dedicated to a noob mistake.
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^^^ So much this. ^^^
@OP: I don't think what you're seeing is arrogance. More likely frustration. <S>About those damn n00bs who keep pissing all over 'our' forums.</S> But flinging poop at them doesn't result in neater cleaner tidier forums.. The catch22 here is that there is no real way to tell people (noobs and grumps alike) to stop polluting the forums without engaging in forum pollution yourself.
Also, it is not related to the thanks meter. If anything, the 'thanks' feature is meant to keep the forums cleaner, by eliminating "Wow thanks!"-posts.
(Maybe we need buttons for "Wrong section!" and "Use the search!" too. Actually, we do have a button for "Wrong section!", it's labeled "/!\ Report".)
-Jobo
As was previously was stated it frustration over most issues.
If people took a few seconds to try and search or post in correct sections things would be a tiny bit easier. Though since its the internet conflicts or bad attitudes will never subside
Sent from my HTC VLE_U using xda app-developers app
JN3141 said:
+1 to these, some people who are new just don't understand how the forum layouts and whatnot work, but rather than being more polite about it, the more experienced ones go off at the new people. Pretty hard for the new people to get help that way.
Tapatalked from my HTC One S running CM10
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No reason to be polite, when the answer or rules are stickied or found on the first page. For instance, development forum is only for development, and there's a sticky emphasizing that. Try they post questions there anyway.
So while it's understandable they don't know the layout yet, they can read. If they ask a question, they'll obviously be reading the post in case is has their answer. So they can just as easily read the stickies.
Not to mention, it's always good to take a moment and read stickies or the first page, before asking questions.
Sent from my HTC One S using xda app-developers app
No matter how wrong they are, you still don't need to get rude like I've seen happen. Yes, there are a lot of frustrating situations, but that still doesn't constitute the flaming. If you were new, maybe you might make a mistake like that, and wouldn't want to have people flaming you, it'd just get more confusing for you.
Tapatalked from my HTC One S running CM10
JN3141 said:
No matter how wrong they are, you still don't need to get rude like I've seen happen.
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Exactly. There is no excuse, ever. You either answer and help, or ignore, or report.
Making an unhelpful off-topic post to verbally smack someone in the face is a waaaay worse offense than posting in the wrong section or asking something that's already been asked and answered in the post right above it. It also has much more negative impact on the forums than some stray posts.
I see it as arrogance and frustration. There are many of us that are unseasoned in the knowledge of phones. When we have knowledge in a particular field and become wise, we sometimes become impatient with others for what is simple to us. Very few people knew years ago what they know now. Life is about development, meant to cultivate and refine, and it happens in stages or seasons. To the well-seasoned people, (pros) please try to understand our ignorance or unfamiliarity. When a noobie asks something, try to understand you didnt always know what you know. Show some humility, you can better help us by understanding we are students to the knowledge you have. When you teach, we can learn, and go away more intelligent in that field, then we can help others on a lower level. . Example: The Pros have level 10, some noobies may have level 5. But that level 5 noobie can help a level 3 noobie, easing the burden on the level 10 pro.
On the other hand, many noobies may start asking questions and expect the pro to do allllllll their work, NO GOOD. There is a friend of us all, his name is Google, he has helped me many times. I dont expect for the pros to do all of the work for me, as none of us should. We as noobies do need to spend more time reading and researching, if we fail to understand, then ask the question. Sometimes we all overlook things and it may take a noobie to make a pro recall that thing that was overlooked. As the commercial says, "you can learn alot from a dummy' (noobie). I even see some pros ride the coat tails of other pros and more or less follow their leads. If the first pro is hard on a noobie the second pro adds his two cents. Thats not necessary.
Let us both, pro and noobie, do our part to develop and keep good karma here at XDA. I do like XDA very much and recognize and respect the abundance of talent which is here. It is fascinating for us to learn and share what we know with others and to see we have helped someone. Im interested in learning and if possible over time to share what I learn with others in a humble manner. So if the community will have me, I plan on being here.
One other productive point of dialogue. I have noticed that recently when you create a new thread XDA automatically searches your subject line and shows you threads with similar subject lines. I think that is helpful.
But it all goes to show that maybe the search functions could be reviewed a bit more with newer members input.
I really like XDA btw, but just thinking about ways to make it better. It may be that those kinds of auto search functions should appear when you are posting in a thread, and not just creating a new one.
There may also be ways to make the search functions more intuitive. Sometimes, for example when you search threads (and not just posts) the default screeen sends back a bunch of threads and it becomes hard to judge which thread may actually contain the most relevant info you are looking for (since the subject line may not be helpful). There may be other info the search could show you (ie how many times the word comes up in that particular thread, etc).
I am sure XDA is always looking at ways to make things better. But it would be interesting to hear what new folks have to say and the challanges they face when searching for information.
AKToronto said:
I have noticed that recently when you create a new thread XDA automatically searches your subject line and shows you threads with similar subject lines. I think that is helpful.
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I agree with you AK, It is very helpful and a nice feature. It reduces the amount of clutter. I went looking to start a new thread on the subject titled "Arrogance vs Humility", and boom, the search suggestions showed me a few threads on the subject. It does become time consuming when cleaning up the forums. Most times when we want to know something we want it on the spot and dont take the time to look first. More so than not, the question has already been answered.
Another issue is the xda app does not have an option to filter the search results. It's pretty well useless. Main reason I switched to tapatalk.
One S | Xparent Blue Tapatalk 2 | Viper 1.2.1 | Bricked Beastmode
There's also not a lot of stickies in the Q & A section... I think we might want to start a project with moderators to propose some stickies and have folks volunteer to create and update the original posts in such stickies.
For example an RUU FAQ, and a Wifi faq, perhaps another on different hboot versions what that even means, one on custom recoveries, kernels, etc. I posted what I thought was a more comprehensive review of sd card issues people have had and fixes and asked it be moved to q & a (since the one stickied there is pretty basic and hasn't been updated). My explanation is still getting buried in the general section for now http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=36372149#post36372149... It's not a big deal though.
But I do find that really good OPs (ie original posts) can do a world of good for someone who is new. Stickies and other OPs should be updated frequently especially as people start explaining their issues.
Another good example of a post that should be stickied in Q&A but is lingering in General is http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2076086
Sent from my HTC One S using xda premium
Dmwitz said:
I think the best thing you can do is to report arrogance and hope the user gets some sort of warning. I have also witnessed some comments that were unnecessary and that could really put new users off asking questions here. That is a real shame imo.
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AGREE completely, some people just believe that just because they've been here for what seems forever and (believe) they have put in their time that they can actually treat people like they're complete idiots and that is just WRONG! I have been around for awhile and never that I can remember have ever treated members like this plus each individual may have better understandings of many other devices or aspects of several other types of electronics compared to many, than again some just are not too familiar with this or that type of device possibly because there are as we can agree slight differences in each. Why can we not just treat everyone as people of a large and (sometimes) great community also, just explain things like the way you wanted them explained to you when you first arrived or switched devices and I just received the BEST experience in my thread for the past week from 'Darknites' and another member whom I'm having issues with writing his username lol but he knows who he is. I try to learn from what has been taught to me through trial and error and lots of it but members like above stick in and help even though I know they were getting irritated lol, when I can I help those with similar issues or with issues I possibly know the answer to. PLEASE just help, no need for rude degrading comments to anyone no matter how much they may not be catching on also you can type many things in 'Google' or even in this forum's search but may not get exactly what your looking for especially like me when this is your daily driver device and can't afford or are not into testing many different devices.
Thanks.
TheCrow1372 said:
AGREE completely, some people just believe that just because they've been here for what seems forever and (believe) they have put in their time that they can actually treat people like they're complete idiots and that is just WRONG! I have been around for awhile and never that I can remember have ever treated members like this plus each individual may have better understandings of many other devices or aspects of several other types of electronics compared to many, than again some just are not too familiar with this or that type of device possibly because there are as we can agree slight differences in each. Why can we not just treat everyone as people of a large and (sometimes) great community also, just explain things like the way you wanted them explained to you when you first arrived or switched devices and I just received the BEST experience in my thread for the past week from 'Darknites' and another member whom I'm having issues with writing his username lol but he knows who he is. I try to learn from what has been taught to me through trial and error and lots of it but members like above stick in and help even though I know they were getting irritated lol, when I can I help those with similar issues or with issues I possibly know the answer to. PLEASE just help, no need for rude degrading comments to anyone no matter how much they may not be catching on also you can type many things in 'Google' or even in this forum's search but may not get exactly what your looking for especially like me when this is your daily driver device and can't afford or are not into testing many different devices.
Thanks.
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:laugh:
So... Sometimes I think to myself why basically no developers care about us anymore.. I came up with an idea pretty quick.. We are annoying most of the time to them. Especially the people to ask questions without just looking through the threads a bit. Obviously they have no experience forum hunting. I haven't had that much experience myself with forums, but it does not take long before we see the downside of our community. The people who post the most on XDA are Forum peeps.. second.. newbs... Sometimes I consider myself one for I feel sorry doing that for questions so dumb, but that was before I learned google doesn't really work through XDA forums that much. You google GS4 MF3 Recovery Bounty and it shows the wrong post on the top. The right post that you'd be interested in is a few links down. But I learned that lesson.
My question to the community, is why do we bother with people like this? The second someone has a serious post about anything, a newb comes along and says "PLEASE RELEASE THE MF3 RECOVERY>> OMG>>...." Those guys should be banned... and I see that way to often... (sadly I see it more in the Jailbreak for iphone more) but it is still in this forum too. Reason for this is probably really simple. This forum has gotten to be the most popular android related forum existing. Everyone that roots their phone has heard of XDA. So... what happens when one of those 14 year old root consumers has a problem? They (hopefully) google it.. then runs into the stupid google problem with XDA for unrelated crap, then posts directly here. Then we come along and say "if you would have looked, it's right in this thread, and everyone has that problem, so don't complain". I have a little sympathy for them, but after a while, those same people become those people who just scan the forums every day for some news of a possible MF3 Exploit, then one they see a serious post, they might think SOMETHINGS BEING DONE!!!......... Ugh... Huge sigh there.
So.. what could we do about it? One, we could ask google to fix their results to be more relevant for us.. but that may or may not ever happen. What else? We could just not let newbs post anywhere for the first day, only in Q&A threads the next weeks, then everything else after 2 months, that gives them enough time to learn that your exploit may never come.. especially if people like them do what they do every day. That won't get rid of everything. Especially on the Q&A, but it would keep the serious threads not kept in the Q&A thread relevant and less of a chance of newbs coming and replying. This is more an idea for the Mod's/Admins to consider, just more strict of a new user system.
Those intentions are only to relieve some of the bad feelings most hacker/devs have here, like DjrBliss. He flat out just dropped out of the forum a little after he released his Loki. And he's having a great time over on the moto x conversations you hear him have on twitter.
That's all I have to say for now.. And this is only my opinion on matters, may not be yours, so.. ya.
Have a good rest of the day you all
Well first off, let me tell that programmers are you know what's by nature. I'm a cyber defense specialist and I work everyday with a LOT of programmers, which is the same thing as your developers, and it took me a while to kind of fit their personality so we weren't offending each other. They don't get mad at people asking questions. They get mad answering questions they have already answered a hundred times. It's not really an XDA problem, it's a problem with people just not searching. They are wanting somebody else to basically wipe their butt for them. That's what REALLY strikes a nerve with many devs.
I believe that people like your talking about will always exist on XDA and many other forums. They have an enormous amount of members, and it's to hard to keep it away.
Cool story, bro. Take the Google search course if you're having problems searching. Here's a hint. Google "your subject xda" You'll get the hits your looking for first.
agent929 said:
Well first off, let me tell that programmers are you know what's by nature. I'm a cyber defense specialist and I work everyday with a LOT of programmers, which is the same thing as your developers, and it took me a while to kind of fit their personality so we weren't offending each other. They don't get mad at people asking questions. They get mad answering questions they have already answered a hundred times. It's not really an XDA problem, it's a problem with people just not searching. They are wanting somebody else to basically wipe their butt for them. That's what REALLY strikes a nerve with many devs.
I believe that people like your talking about will always exist on XDA and many other forums. They have an enormous amount of members, and it's to hard to keep it away.
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Yup your probably right there.. Well My ideas were somewhat close..