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I am seeing more and more dis-respectful replies to newbies then ever before, and it is getting old, all this does is run off potential new comers to this site who might be the next great cooker and spreads a not so good rep about this site
at the same time I see some mods have be respectful to others in there sigs. I think this should become policy across the forum period and those that are rude and disrespectful in their reply should get a vacation to let them know this is not to be tolerated IMO
This site is about growth and interest in these toys of ours, not about ripping newbies who may ask a question that maybe have been asked many times over, so what, why not just post a link to the search and to the Wiki and say welcome to the forums , instead of bashing them? It would leave a better taste in the newbs mouths and they might become a contributor in the future.
Also think about this, just how many of you cookers have something in your sig asking for a cup of coffee ? or Donate to XDA or Donations graciously accepted. Well if a newbie is made to feel welcomed and comfortable here , They are more then likely going leave you a little something.
Me , If I notice a rom cooker being rude, they are not very likely going to get anything from me even if they had something great and useful.
I just replied to a newbie that asked a simple question, but not before someone posted a B.S. reply, I instead answered it with something useful and promoted the search engine at the same time
This did two things, first the newbies was made to feel welcomed and also if someone was to search the same question, they would find a reasonable answer.
BTW B.S. replies just screw up the search results forcing newbies just ask questions instead of finding answers.
Flame away if you want or become part of the solution .
i agree,
there are times that newbs do need help. some of those who i have pointed in the right direction have tried to search, but either search the wrong thing or don't know what they are looking for.
it does work two ways and some of the mods and senior members are to be commended for their help. ( i can think of about 10 folks who go out of their way to help as many as possible and never rip a newb)
those who are helped are more likely to help others.
I find it often takes longer to explain how to use the search facility properly to yield useable results than it takes to answer the specific question, but there is no excuse for rude replies, if you don't like what you see simply move on rather than posting an offensive reply - Mike
Here is a good example of what I am talking about,
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=403829
This reply by kspirit did nothing to help this user ,
No , nothing like that runs on the tilt..
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.
its these kind of responses that need to be curtailed.
Even though a mod did respond , he/she did nothing regarding the above users response. All this does is give the impression that this behavior is condoned .
I am not knocking the Moderator (I do find him to be very helpful) but they do have a huge influence on how others act on this site, and by not informing this above user that these types of replies are not helpful or uncalled for) they are giving the impression that it is okay.
Mods & Admin , what do you all think ? Am I off track here ?
Just wanted to add this:
If the mods were to take the time to edit the titles like this one " New AT&T Tilt Phone - Help" to something like this...Will software like HTC Home, Mobile Shell, Pocket Informant work on both the tilt & 8525?. or something along those lines.....
This would help with search engine results, Yea its abit more work for the mods to do this but it will help greatly in producing more viable search results .
Just a thought...
i think what drives some ppl to be rude is the fact that the ppl who decided to ask a repeated question were told that they have to search for an existing answer before asking a new question, and that they decided not to do that and just post a new one, i think both are mistaken here, and the one with the question brought it on themselves. i really don't like rude answers, but!
AthenaLod said:
i think what drives some ppl to be rude is the fact that the ppl who decided to ask a repeated question were told that they have to search for an existing answer before asking a new question, and that they decided not to do that and just post a new one, i think both are mistaken here, and the one with the question brought it on themselves. i really don't like rude answers, but!
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Ahh do you search much ? this user did not ask the same question twice....
and there is no excuse for being rude, and so what if they had ? a simple link to the Wiki would be a very easy way to deal with it, and a welcome to the forum would get much better results.
why would I want to donate or promote this site in any form if all I got is ripped on ? hmmm
Like Mike has posted,
if you don't like what you see simply move on rather than posting an offensive reply - Mike
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This would yield better results .
by "told" i meant that for example in the kaiser forum, the only sticky there is titled "**BEFORE YOU POST START HERE**" and it says "Read and search before posting. Reply to an existing thread before creating a new thread. Redundant threads will be closed." so, if somebody decides that he/she wants to just ignore this, he/she brought it on themselves. i don't do bad language, or encourage it, but, sometimes some ppl can be really so lazy to even do a search
Just my personal opinion....
I've only been here for a few months and I have to say, I've seen more useless threads then ever before! Now, don't get me wrong, I love to help, and do all the time, but at some point, you see a junior on their first post asking something like, "How do I uninstall an app?", or "How do I turn the phone off?" So at some point of seeing these threads, someone will be a bit frustrated and point them to the search and wiki fetaures located on the top bar instead of a full answer. I fully understand your point, but like I said, these members who join just for a simple answer then after 10 minutes ask why nobody is helping can aggrivate all of us users who come here for new information on a daily basis. Especially when they start a thread, get an answer, and never return.
Look here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=404065
Now in this post, this user was looking for a specific dialer, and of course it's impoosible to search for an image, but I did help. Actually at first, I was a bit mad at the fact they posted the image, but didn't ask in the thread they got the photo from, then realized the image wasn't from here. But after I saw that, I tried to give some info on it, but I can't spend time looking for something they want, but I can help, so I did.
I think I'm done typing , but I'll say this, when I first joined, actually being my first forum, I had a bunch of questions, I didn't feel a need to post a thread for one simple question. I actually spent about a week after work searching and going through a bunch of pages looking for info, and I found a lot!
Also, a suggestion, I asked this in the SPAM thread, how about putting a block on junior users poting new threads? It would prevent SPAM and these simple question threads.
It seems that mods and Admin are strangely silent regarding this topic......wonder why..
I don't think they aren't responding for any unknown reason, this topic has been discussed so many times, there is no interest in tackling this issue anymore.
Just wanted to say that F2504x4 put the problem very articulately and I totally agree with him. Pointing out a mistake (such as not using the search facility) need not be done in a rude and dismissive way.
I will just remind us that we were all noobs one day, and also that some people are more technically minded than others. What may seem to us a simple and trivial question is obviously not so for the one asking it.
TheChampJT said:
I don't think they aren't responding for any unknown reason, this topic has been discussed so many times, there is no interest in tackling this issue anymore.
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They should be taking a interest in this.....if they are becoming numb to it , then they need to take a hard look at why they are a moderator, Sorry if this sounds harsh . Moderators are the leaders that others look to for guidance, they help set the tone of the community.
This is a great site, with a lot of great talent , but it will not take long before it becomes over shadowed with a darker side.
Continued growth is key to any forum and community , and running off new comers with not help with that.
Fact is you will always have newbs ignoring stickies and search engines , nothing will ever change that.
All this site can do is maintain a positive atmosphere , and continuing education to those that join .
So i ask again , what say you Admin and mods ?
Thank you pedmond for this , very well put.
I will just remind us that we were all noobs one day, and also that some people are more technically minded than others. What may seem to us a simple and trivial question is obviously not so for the one asking it.
Yesterday 07:49 PM
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F2504x4 said:
It seems that mods and Admin are strangely silent regarding this topic......wonder why..
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Don't really think the issue is with Mods and Admin. I do see a lot of evidence of them cleaning up threads if they're getting out of hand and sorting out users that are really getting obnoxious. But the problem seems to be that certain people feel their post count is a license to have a go at the newer members. And certain new members seem to think the world is their private helpdesk and that the purpose of these forums is to instantly deal with their every need. Well in any large group you'll always get those that are unpleasant to deal with - that's life. There are just as many, maybe more, who're a real pleasure to deal with and try their best to help. I think if new members read the forum rules and were prepared to lurk a bit before posting, then they'd quickly get an idea of what types of questions to ask and how to get help.
So while I personally totally agree with your views on decent behaviour etc I don't think its an issue to get wound up about. If you can filter out some of the fluff, this site is still the best resource for our phones by far.
(But I've only got about 80 posts, so maybe I'll change my mind when I hit 100! )
What are the Mods/Admins supposed to do? Ban every user?
I often tell people to search for things when they have one post, and have a very stupid question with a blatant answer. When they do that, they don't deserve to be treated with a great amount of respect.
When someone who has evidently searched around, and has clearly tried to solve their own problems and then as a last resort asks for help, I'm far more inclined to be generous with my time, and try to help them.
Some people are obnoxious and post without searching at all, but the admins/mods can't go and ban people because they were once an idiot.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=2360488&posted=1#post2360488
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
l3v5y said:
What are the Mods/Admins supposed to do? Ban every user?
I often tell people to search for things when they have one post, and have a very stupid question with a blatant answer. When they do that, they don't deserve to be treated with a great amount of respect.
When someone who has evidently searched around, and has clearly tried to solve their own problems and then as a last resort asks for help, I'm far more inclined to be generous with my time, and try to help them.
Some people are obnoxious and post without searching at all, but the admins/mods can't go and ban people because they were once an idiot.
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Wow what a way to start off a reply Ban every user ?
I think you should re read what has been stated, I did not hint or say ban anyone..but if that is what it takes to effect a change then maybe it should be considered but it should be directed at those that are creating a un-friendly and less then helpful place . IMO
First off I have no problem with someone being told to search, its how they are being told and some of the un-called for comments that are becoming more and more common and is the real problem, go read the example I posted earlier.
what do you consider a worthy response in this thread ? http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=404065
As to the stupid questions , Idiots and respect, ahhh I thinks its way past beer thirty .
swanlm said:
. But the problem seems to be that certain people feel their post count is a license to have a go at the newer members.
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while I agree with a lot of what you said, In the example I gave , its even the low post count members that are posting these less then helpful responses, so that is telling me that this a is trend that is spreading and the bad thing is that a mod even replied in the thread, and did nothing about the response given, they only quoted part of my reply about searching.... ( I am still wondering why...)
Btw I only started this thread after a lot of reading and seeing this trend become more common place.
It's not about being against Noobies...
Too many come here from other sites for the wrong reason. Many of the questions that get jumped, closed & merged really should have been asked at the AT&T or other carrier support forums.
I'll quote this post of mine:
I think what a lot of people forget is that this is not a "make my phone neat & kewl" place.
As implied by the name this is technically a Developers forum/community.
Now what does that mean? Well first off it means that there is an expectation that if you are here then you want to customize your device but rather than just installing something that someone packaged you want to understand how it works and maybe even enhance it yourself.
When I first came here with a Blue Angel it was a different environment. PDA Phones were not embraced by the general public because of the expense and complexity (I paid over $400 for my BA). A $400 phone 4 years ago was expensive, today the Tilt is $300 after rebates but with inflation & the rise in the cost of other devices and the fact that there are other sources out there giving them away for $150 our neat bit of kit has become popular with mainstream users.
Now we have a flood of new users who are asking not "How can I do this myself" but more like "Give me the quick fix" without caring to understand the process. See if you read the threads then you get to experience the learning process, you see how the issues were investigated and confirmed. Then you get to watch the different attempts at resolution and learn why some failed while others worked. That is called Development.
The NooB backlash is coming from users who have walked in the development shoes and is directed mainly at those who don't care for the journey but just want the end result or destination.
As a Development Forum we are just as much (if not more) about the journey. I've read so many comments like "I don't have time to read all of the threads" or "I don't care how it works, just that it does". These very statements are contrary to the heart & soul of XDA-Devs and that is why the backlash is so strong.
Let me be very clear on this: IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THE JOURNEY THEN YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
XDA-Devs is about developers & hackers helping each other and working together to get the most out of our devices by understanding them better than most.
XDA-Devs is not about helping everyone who wants a "Kewl bit of kit" make their phone better than the guy next to him.
Now do we go kicking users off who never contribute anything, NO. We tolerate it to an extent. Where the toleration ends is when these users start diluting the usefulness of the forum by repeating the same questions over and over again.
You ask us to understand your position. Well if you want to benefit from our experience and time then I think it is only fair that you understand our position.
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Good post and very worthwhile reading kyphur,
and I understand clearly why it was written.
Just be aware of this trend and its long term results...
Btw I have walked in Mod shoes , and understand the inner workings of forums, and it is no easy task managing a community.
Thanks for posting that.
OK so i know this is the wrong forum, BUT I came across this and wanted to "bump" it so to speak. This was posted by kyphur in 08 and in a mods sig now. Please read and adhere to the spirit of the post. It is RIGHT ON!!!
I think what a lot of people forget is that this is not a "make my phone neat & kewl" place.
As implied by the name this is technically a Developers forum/community.
Now what does that mean? Well first off it means that there is an expectation that if you are here then you want to customize your device but rather than just installing something that someone packaged you want to understand how it works and maybe even enhance it yourself.
When I first came here with a Blue Angel it was a different environment. PDA Phones were not embraced by the general public because of the expense and complexity (I paid over $400 for my BA). A $400 phone 4 years ago was expensive, today the Tilt is $300 after rebates but with inflation & the rise in the cost of other devices and the fact that there are other sources out there giving them away for $150 our neat bit of kit has become popular with mainstream users.
Now we have a flood of new users who are asking not "How can I do this myself" but more like "Give me the quick fix" without caring to understand the process. See if you read the threads then you get to experience the learning process, you see how the issues were investigated and confirmed. Then you get to watch the different attempts at resolution and learn why some failed while others worked. That is called Development.
The NooB backlash is coming from users who have walked in the development shoes and is directed mainly at those who don't care for the journey but just want the end result or destination.
As a Development Forum we are just as much (if not more) about the journey. I've read so many comments like "I don't have time to read all of the threads" or "I don't care how it works, just that it does". These very statements are contrary to the heart & soul of XDA-Devs and that is why the backlash is so strong.
Let me be very clear on this: IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THE JOURNEY THEN YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
XDA-Devs is about developers & hackers helping each other and working together to get the most out of our devices by understanding them better than most.
XDA-Devs is not about helping everyone who wants a "Kewl bit of kit" make their phone better than the guy next to him.
Now do we go kicking users off who never contribute anything, NO. We tolerate it to an extent. Where the toleration ends is when these users start diluting the usefulness of the forum by repeating the same questions over and over again.
You ask us to understand your position. Well if you want to benefit from our experience and time then I think it is only fair that you understand our position.
Maybe you can recommend an alternative site for people who just want the newest tweaks and software.
the idea is not that only developers should be looking at this site, but that this is a place where developers communicate with each other and the beneficiaries of their work. This is not the place for someone to post threads about general questions about how to use or mod their device. This is a place that will develop the capabilities of the android platform if it is allowed. Developers WILL abandon this forum if it becomes a bulletin board or a technical support site.....and if you need a question answered, there are other forums on THIS site to address those.
Agreed 100%. While developing for the Windows mobile, I also got the same thing. I would post a thread and WARN people of a certain things and tell them how to fix it. Then I'd get 30 pages of "geeze, you broke something. how do you fix it?" That gets annoying real fast. I would love it if this forum forced people to take a test before they could post in the development sections... Before that, they should only be able to post in the regular sections.
One thing that really bugs me is the fact that the newbs don't want to search but don't realize that they take OUR time to search FOR them. No one knows everything. Every developer on this site searches and learns. I know that if you put together all the time that I've spent on this site JUST researching and searching, it'd be MONTHS and MONTHS of non-stop, no sleep searching and researching. So why can't the average person search for 2 minutes? Is their time worth more than my time?
/rant - while talking on the phone so it might not make sense...
Pinesal said:
Maybe you can recommend an alternative site for people who just want the newest tweaks and software.
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There are thousands, but essentially all they do is copy stuff off here.
Like the post said, if you just want to root your phone so it can do 'cool stuff' and not give a **** about how the damn thing works then maybe you shouldn't be modding your phone (that wasn't aimed at you btw, just 'people' in general the market place is made up of 99% 'these people' who don't/can't read and it's pretty irritating.)
Agree with the post 100%, fantastic
we sadly are living in the (ME) world
there is such a huge gape beetween the 10-19 generation and 20-29
10-19 generation is living in such an easy world, they never had to blow into their nintendo cassettes , know how heavy a quantum bigfoot is or what RTFM mean's
You said it, this is in the wrong forum.
You're not an admin and although you can spend your time here (and pretty much all of your posts) reporting out-of-place threads, you're still not an admin.
People always wonder into communities and it always takes a while to learn the way things work. Mickey is doing a good job on closing and moving threads that are unrelated to development.
With that said...
Reported.
Agreed. It's really, really, really, really getting to me. I wish OP's had semi-moderator power. They could at least delete all necessary posts and ban that user - if required- for a certain amount of time from their thread only.
jubeh said:
You said it, this is in the wrong forum.
You're not an admin and although you can spend your time here (and pretty much all of your posts) reporting out-of-place threads, you're still not an admin.
People always wonder into communities and it always takes a while to learn the way things work. Mickey is doing a good job on closing and moving threads that are unrelated to development.
With that said...
Reported.
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ughh, no i'm not an admin, and no almost all my posts, or the majority, or a half are reported threads, but i do try to help out the mods when i can. they are not on all forums at all times and can use the help, and they have said as much.
Oh thank you thank you! People here should want to understand why thing the work as they work. Not just want their phones to look cool.
As it you wouldnt know it, i have been with xda for years well since the titan came out. before that i was modding an ipaq and of course the old palms. everyonce in awhile i lose interest and move on only to come back when i have something new(major a.d.d). i do write java as well as c and even c++(so on) i typically find this place useful to try stuff out and even set up my own custom rom just for me. i dont post because i can google. while i have many of my own questions i would like answered i simply dont ask most of the time(such as using micro kernels and modding app2sd to make the os have two options sd in or out. however the problem is not the generations or age difference or anything like that. its social systems outside of xda. posting a reply used to mean an answer or something useful. now its normal to simply post "great job". thats nice and all but maybe instead of complaining about it we should come up with a new system that improves xda. like a sorting system or sub thread system and set up catagorys for our replys. like thumbs up would be for the "good job". i know its hard to keep everyone happy but this is a forum first, a forum has design problems when you get the number of people xda has. use advanced search it helps a lot. a sorting system with requirements for certain catagorys would help devs. its not easy modding and getting it right and you cant do it alone. xda is the help even if its not your phone sometimes others have solutions too. such as winmo users putting android on their phones(yes i did it too my old titan for fun). things i learned and other devs learn can help us and vice versa. i have yet to find bad technology only poorly thought out ideas that could have been. which is why we mod.
p.s. wtf is up with palm and blackberry ads all the time.
Most of those kids just want the answer or fix in the next 3min. with perfect steps or a patch that supposedly will fix and hack their device,after that they´ll never show up.
All they want is to show off without bothering to read.
I totaly understand. I do feel sometimes that certain devs do get a bit annoyed with people who just want to fix the phone and not understand. I'm not linux or coding wiz. But whe I got here in may I was one of the people who just wanted me phone to be better than urs. I still have that to some extent but I have developed more of a "how and what is causeing this issue" attitude. I try to contribute as best as I can. Helping out over at q&a as best as I can. I enjoy xda and without my days would be more boring than what the are now. I dunno I guess I'm just rambling. Bottom line is I have tried to correct my attitude toward modding. Hell I even post my email so users can drop a line if they need help.
i am 20 and i fondly remember blowing into my nes super nes and genesis games.
i am pretty new to XDA. when i first found this site all i wanted was a quick fix. now i am getting more intrested in the actual dev aspect. i want to be able to create my own rom eventualy. yes i do find myself asking stupid questions and getting some foul responses but in my opinion no question is a stupid one. only the one not asked. yes alot of people just want a fix but there are new users who want to learn. like me. so i appreciate the help i have recieved from most members. and i alwasy appoligise for my stupidity. so dont get down on all noobs because alot of us want to learn and the only way to is to ask.
saprano614 said:
i am pretty new to XDA. when i first found this site all i wanted was a quick fix. now i am getting more intrested in the actual dev aspect. i want to be able to create my own rom eventualy. yes i do find myself asking stupid questions and getting some foul responses but in my opinion no question is a stupid one. only the one not asked. yes alot of people just want a fix but there are new users who want to learn. like me. so i appreciate the help i have recieved from most members. and i alwasy appoligise for my stupidity. so dont get down on all noobs because alot of us want to learn and the only way to is to ask.
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nobody is getting down on noobs. ONLY the site users who FAIL to post questions and general comments in the correct forum
jaaronmoody said:
nobody is getting down on noobs. ONLY the site users who FAIL to post questions and general comments in the correct forum
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Just want to make a statement befor someone did.
I thank you for this post. I came to this forum a long time ago I have learned quite a bit and appreciate everything that is done here. There are very skillful people that are on here and I wish I had the amount of skill then thesemodders, hackers, developers etc... have I keep my mouth shut unless i feel there is some thing that i know how to answer, i have never complained about a single rom i simply research what can be done to change for fix it, all answers rely in a search somewhere either here or google. I just wish other people would do the same then we would be able to prevent a 300+ page threads where only about 25 pages are worth anything.
look at the amount of posts from someone who knows they are barley able to contrubute(but do what he can) and been here this long. compared to people who have been here dont have much to contribute but love to post everything that comes to thier minds.
Join Date
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samygent said:
we sadly are living in the (ME) world
there is such a huge gape beetween the 10-19 generation and 20-29
10-19 generation is living in such an easy world, they never had to blow into their nintendo cassettes , know how heavy a quantum bigfoot is or what RTFM mean's
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HEY!
im 18 and clearly remember blowing into those damn games to make them work. but when they worked, so much fun i still think theyre better than the crappy xbox and ps3 games of today... but thats just me. lol
pleeease yall! let's keep THIS thread on topic! LOL!!
so i thought this was to help each other out and for the guys making the roms to gets some beer hahaha J/k you guys are doing a great job but i see a lot of people *****ing about gps come up dude buy a freaking tom tom or something and people being mean to newbies not everyone knows what you know so why not be cool and help and a lot of people do i know they have helped me but for the % that don't man ya'll should think
about how you act everyone is human no one here is a android well maybe D.G. (Keep them roms coming bro you are killing it) anyways i'm just saying it doesn't hurt to be nice
Dfuse06, period. Period, dfuse06.
Now that you're acquainted, I suggest you use him.
dfuse06 said:
so i thought this was to help each other out and for the guys making the roms to gets some beer hahaha J/k you guys are doing a great job but i see a lot of people *****ing about gps come up dude buy a freaking tom tom or something and people being mean to newbies not everyone knows what you know so why not be cool and help and a lot of people do i know they have helped me but for the % that don't man ya'll should thing about how you act everyone is human no one here is a android well maybe D.G. (Keep them roms coming bro you are killing it) anyways i'm just saying it doesn't hurt to be nice
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Just remember that "help" is different from "handout". People that ask for help that have actually tried to do something and are having problems - get help.
People that come here and ask "tell me how" without trying first or even using the search tools - they want a handout. it is hard to be nice to the people with the paper cups and their hands out - work a little bit like the rest of us.
Most people achieve by learning, not by hand outs.
alphadog00 said:
Just remember that "help" is different from "handout". People that ask for help that have actually tried to do something and are having problems - get help.
People that come here and ask "tell me how" without trying first or even using the search tools - they want a handout. it is hard to be nice to the people with the paper cups and their hands out - work a little bit like the rest of us.
Most people achieve by learning, not by hand outs.
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Although I agree to a point you have to wonder how much less [email protected]$&ing, complaining, and angry posts you'd see in threads if one person would simply answer a person's question fully. As it is now if a person asks a question chances are you'll then see 4-7 posts of other users yelling at them to use the search feature, or to read back 500 pages, etc.
I think what it comes down to is you have two types of people. Type 1 does the research and then asks questions (which still tend to get nasty replies) to clarify. Then Type 2 people that are either incapable of doing proper searching due to language barriers or inexperience or that are too lazy. Type 2 people don't get the answer they need after the 4-7 nasty posts so end up asking again getting another 4-7 nasty posts and in the end didn't learn anything anyways.
I seriously think our threads in this community would be much shorter and cleaner if people stopped posting the complaints and cryptic "Go back 500 pages and read the 3rd post newb" and just simply answered the questions that they're obviously able to.
I mean you're (nobody in particular) taking the time to post a nasty message anyhow, so why not change it from a nasty message that spawns more messages and ugly debate and simply give a good answer?
The upside to that philosophy? Threads would contain less useless information, questions and their answers would be easier to find, so less questions would end up being asked.
That's my opinion anyhow. And I know it's pretty much impossible to expect such utopian behavior when it comes to online forums where everyone wants to express what they're thinking whether it helps a situation or not. But wouldn't it be nice?
@sschrupp
I agree with you, but how many times do people say "I don't want to read 10 pages of posts, just tell me how"?
The truth is, that those 10 pages have more info then one person can respond to with a quick "tell me how" answer. All the pitfalls, bricks, and other known issues are usually in those 10 pages. If the lazy actually read the full thread, we would eliminate the other 15 subsequent posts they make when they screw up or run into known issues.
XDA used to represent the people that really liked to hack and had the skills and desire to figure out how things worked. Now it is home to every noob with a smartphone. I was noob once too, but before posting, i read everything i could to try and figure things out. Then i would ask for details about something i didn't understand.
Anyway, must my opinion. I so appreciate stickies like the "Captivate bible" but no one reads it. how many posts do we see on "how do i get back to stock?" More peeps looking for handouts.
I have been lurking these forums for about a year (mainly HTC Kaiser...now Captivate). I find most of my answers by searching and reading. I understand why it might get frustrating when people ask the same question over and over when they are answered in stickies or previous posts, but at the same time I am just curious as what one needs to do to prove that they have done this. I search every problem I have...but what if I can't find an answer. Is "I have searched the forums and have been unable to find the answer" enough? What can one do to safely ask a question without being ridiculed for it's seemingly obvious answer?
jfsouthward said:
I have been lurking these forums for about a year (mainly HTC Kaiser...now Captivate). I find most of my answers by searching and reading. I understand why it might get frustrating when people ask the same question over and over when they are answered in stickies or previous posts, but at the same time I am just curious as what one needs to do to prove that they have done this. I search every problem I have...but what if I can't find an answer. Is "I have searched the forums and have been unable to find the answer" enough? What can one do to safely ask a question without being ridiculed for it's seemingly obvious answer?
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What I'll do is tell what search terms I used. Google is great, if you know what to search for. Also, I use the 3 day rule. Give it three days, if I haven't found it by then, then ask. Plus thread jacking is ok to ask a quick question. But I don't put a simple question in general. I use q&a or off topic. Those are just my own rules for myself.
From a phone
jfsouthward said:
I have been lurking these forums for about a year (mainly HTC Kaiser...now Captivate). I find most of my answers by searching and reading. I understand why it might get frustrating when people ask the same question over and over when they are answered in stickies or previous posts, but at the same time I am just curious as what one needs to do to prove that they have done this. I search every problem I have...but what if I can't find an answer. Is "I have searched the forums and have been unable to find the answer" enough? What can one do to safely ask a question without being ridiculed for it's seemingly obvious answer?
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I can't offer any right answer, but people should stop taking offense when they are ridiculed.
If someone can show you the answer (or point you in the right direction) and then give you hard time because they found it using the site search tools, then don't feel bad.
Too many people get bent of shape and whine because someone called them a name or gave them a hard time. People don't refuse to help; but they may chastise for not doing your own work.
I was just curious. I never get bent out of shape when it comes to online interaction. It is what it is...faceless and nameless, which just makes it easier to be a prick. Getting miffed is an effort in futility.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
If people think these forums are bad, join some automotive forums.
From a phone
I've been trying to figure things out for my Captivate as well. I read and search before I post yet people are still reluctant to help. I'm like all on my own when it comes to the problems or questions I have.
geokilla said:
I've been trying to figure things out for my Captivate as well. I read and search before I post yet people are still reluctant to help. I'm like all on my own when it comes to the problems or questions I have.
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Perhaps they just don't have the answer to your questions. Or it could be that the answers have been posted numerous times prior to your asking.
geokilla said:
I've been trying to figure things out for my Captivate as well. I read and search before I post yet people are still reluctant to help. I'm like all on my own when it comes to the problems or questions I have.
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Why do you say people are reluctant to help? It looks like you have replies to your posts.
jfsouthward said:
I have been lurking these forums for about a year (mainly HTC Kaiser...now Captivate). I find most of my answers by searching and reading. I understand why it might get frustrating when people ask the same question over and over when they are answered in stickies or previous posts, but at the same time I am just curious as what one needs to do to prove that they have done this. I search every problem I have...but what if I can't find an answer. Is "I have searched the forums and have been unable to find the answer" enough? What can one do to safely ask a question without being ridiculed for it's seemingly obvious answer?
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Click to collapse
I can't offer any right answer, but people should stop taking offense when they are ridiculed.
If someone can show you the answer (or point you in the right direction) and then give you hard time because they found it using the site search tools, then don't feel bad.
Too many people get bent of shape and whine because someone called them a name or gave them a hard time. People don't refuse to help; but they may chastise for not doing your own work.
Dude, seriously, I read your questions and posted the links to prove the point that you aren't searching as you claim you are. Stop whining and complaining when there are dozens of thread slready posted with the answers to your questions. Don't take it personally when you are called out for not searching. I've been called out for it when I missed an obvious answer to a question, I spend a lot of time on here following threads and I have a life and work full time and have a family so it really unerves me when anyone says oh I don't have time to read 100+ pages, so you basically do it for me. I am not saying you did this but a lot have and then they eff up their phones and then need help, could've saved us all a lot of reading and shorten threads by everyone reading the threads before asking questions.
We all know where this is going.
Thread Closed
When I first got my ns4g, I was into being active in this forum section. I would help out people with their questions or problems. Then I noticed things becoming monotonous very quickly. What I saw was many different people asking questions or having problems with stuff that had already been answered or solved in posts elsewhere many times over. I began being irritated by this and would sometimes lay into them or be very sarcastic. After that, I stopped posting anything because I got to the point where I wanted to yell at them for not looking around and the answer was right around the corner and I was tired of saying "look here (link)".
I know I can't be the only one like this. Anyone else care to share their frustrations about this?
Maybe I'm getting old or burnt out.
its apart of the deal of helping others out. think of it as if you're working at customer service, you'd encounter this problem on a daily basis. ive helped a lot of people on the NS forum and i know how you feel
I think the main issue is the poor search results.
Use the search tool and you have to either plow through tens of thousands of non-helpful results, or you post a question in a new thread.
Anyway, a thread like this which just going to be complaints is not very helpful either. You could have added your statement to the end of another thread about repetitive questions...Instead, you started a new thread.
What you probably need to do is step away from the forums and get some fresh air ;-)
This post wasn't intended to help, it was intended to vent frustration and confirm I wasn't the only one occasionally losing my mind.
Customer service...... I pondered that thought for a minute and remembered a story I read years ago. It was the one where the help center guy told the customer to pack up the computer and send it back because they were too stupid to use a computer.
Oh well, at least I just made myself laugh.
I know how you feel. When I first joined xda (in my evo days) I was very involved with helping others out, etc. The useless questions annoyed me, but what really got to me is when people would ask the same questions within a thread for a rom, kernel, or mod. I mean, many times the question and answer was literally on the previous page. That isn't xda's horrible search function (which isn't too bad to search w/in an individual thread, but is really bad for an entire forum), that's laziness.
So I just stepped away a bit. I mean, for God's sake, these ARE just cell phones...
And, while we're cluttering things up w/ a useless rant and rave thread, I'd like to add a couple other annoyances that have caused me to step away somewhat: rant/ asking a question like "Will this work on my phone?" or "How do I flash this?" and when someone asks a question that was answered in the OP. /endrant
Yes. The best way to search xda is Google. Type what u want or need and then type "xda" after it. Works everytime. No excuse
Uncle Jimmy says hello
VisedMonk said:
or mod. I mean, many times the question and answer was literally on the previous page. That isn't xda's horrible search function (which isn't too bad to search w/in an individual thread, but is really bad for an entire forum), that's laziness. /endrant
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Still, a lot of those ROM threads are hundreds of pages long...everyone is supposed to read through hundreds of pages before posting?? For example, Myn's Warn twopoint two thread for the Evo has over 42,000 replies. That is 4247 pages! CyanogenMod 7 has over 10,000 replies.
Anyway, that is my last contribution to this thread. Good luck guys.
I understand that with there being cdma and gsm versions of this phone that it will add to the confusion. I've seen a lot of people flashing the wrong thing for their phone and almost killing it. I know I am forgetful but I don't remember seeing this much screwing up of a phone with the old phones and sections I used to hang out in.
I understand the frustration of the OP. But it is what it is. I just keep answering the sane questions over and over as nicely as I can.
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
Well, I guess, patience is what we need
This is what forum intended for. Helping them out as much as we can.
It's tiring to reply the same question over and over again,
but it's fun at the same time
Personally, I really like to help those people who are in trouble,
as I was one of the trouble guy before when I first got my Nexus S
Helping one another is great.
Suggestion: Why not you gather all the question you answer, and create a FAQ post,
this would help a lot in our forum (According to the post number you had, 8xx, you should be able to write a thousand Q&A I guess )
Just try to remember a few things.
What may appear to be a dumb question to you, to the person asking it may be very important.
There is really no such thing as a dumb question. Only dumb answers.
I find myself remembering those 2 things in life and think they serve good purpose. If the little things in life eat ya up you won't enjoy the good things life offers. Its not worth the energy. Just skip em and look for something important to read
ronnienyc said:
Still, a lot of those ROM threads are hundreds of pages long...everyone is supposed to read through hundreds of pages before posting?? For example, Myn's Warn twopoint two thread for the Evo has over 42,000 replies. That is 4247 pages! CyanogenMod 7 has over 10,000 replies.
Anyway, that is my last contribution to this thread. Good luck guys.
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I feel the same way.
honestly, i get more annoyed at people whining and trolling at ppl asking questions.
not joking, and this isnt meant to jest at anyone.
yes ignorant and lazy people are blah, but sometimes you just can't quite find what your looking for, or its faster and time is of the essence to ask the question...there are alot of things, and alot of reason's, and alot of people that need answers.
I always feel that if you can't be bothered helping someone, don't, but when people go, oh jeez just search, don't answer, but are eager enough to spout off, or 10000x more worthless than the people asking the question even if they are lazy and ignorant.
because that person is lazy, ignorant, and a jerk.
Alanmw86 said:
honestly, i get more annoyed at people whining and trolling at ppl asking questions.
not joking, and this isnt meant to jest at anyone.
yes ignorant and lazy people are blah, but sometimes you just can't quite find what your looking for, or its faster and time is of the essence to ask the question...there are alot of things, and alot of reason's, and alot of people that need answers.
I always feel that if you can't be bothered helping someone, don't, but when people go, oh jeez just search, don't answer, but are eager enough to spout off, or 10000x more worthless than the people asking the question even if they are lazy and ignorant.
because that person is lazy, ignorant, and a jerk.
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+1
Need help? Post.
Give help? Post.
Anything else? Just don't post. Just don't do it.
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
This is a smartphone comunity, people come here to ask for help, it's the main reason this forum exists and this is a fact. New comers will always make a new thread instead of searching for their answer.
With no offense to anyone but if you can't stand that maybe this isn't the right place to spend your nights.
lvnatic said:
This is a smartphone comunity, people come here to ask for help, it's the main reason this forum exists and this is a fact. New comers will always make a new thread instead of searching for their answer.
With no offense to anyone but if you can't stand that maybe this isn't the right place to spend your nights.
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Agree +1 +1
I should add that I've worked as a Customer facing service/sales rep for the last 10 years.
So I'm used to getting the same question over and over, and I honestly enjoy getting a question I know vs something I have to figure out haha.
Challenges can be fun sometimes.
But honestly by your theory no one should ever ask question's unless they are breaking completely new ground (which almost doesn't exist) because the info's already out there, so next time you ask a question, punch yourself in the face for us Mr.Knowitall because you could have just found the answer somewhere else.
or maybe you could just realize thats how we learn, and when we learn our knowledge gets spread, its one of the most important things in life, get over it.
Haven't you ever been going down the road and asked yourself, man, whats the speed limit here, even tho there was a sign that freaking told you just back there 100 feet..... next time instead of asking that question, or moving forward to find out, turn around instead and go read it, seems logical ay?
I've never understood why this bothers so many people. It's a website... it's the internet... they are phones. You guys really get upset? Sounds overly sensitive to me. Either answer the question or dont. It's quite simple. We are all here to help and learn. There isn't a place for rudeness when people are asking genuine questions. Well... at least there shouldn't be. Should people search? Sure.... but some dont. It's not that serious.
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using XDA Premium App
Hello everyone, I'm writing this because lately there has been a lot of turmoil in this section. People are leaving, upset with xda, posting off topic like crazy and showing hostility like I've never seen here before. I really wanna help make this section better as this is my main device and hate seeing it like this. I try and do what I can, delete off topic/flaming posts, move threads to the proper sections and so on but would love some input from the users here to make this section better for everyone. Granted I'm not the only mod here but this will benefit all of us so here's what I'm asking. If you see something you think we can improve on post it here. If a user is rude, flaming and going off topic pm me or another mod here or report it. I will do my best to address anything posted here. Granted I can't do anything about xda rules as they are in place for a reason but I can always bring up suggestions to the other mods and the admins. I really wanna work with everyone here so please suggest away. Off topic posts, flaming, rude comments will not be tolerated in this thread.
Thanks,
Ryan
Ryanmo5 said:
Hello everyone, I'm writing this because lately there has been a lot of turmoil in this section. People are leaving, upset with xda, posting off topic like crazy and showing hostility like I've never seen here before. I really wanna help make this section better as this is my main device and hate seeing it like this. I try and do what I can, delete off topic/flaming posts, move threads to the proper sections and so on but would love some input from the users here to make this section better for everyone. Granted I'm not the only mod here but this will benefit all of us so here's what I'm asking. If you see something you think we can improve on post it here. If a user is rude, flaming and going off topic pm me or another mod here or report it. I will do my best to address anything posted here. Granted I can't do anything about xda rules as they are in place for a reason but I can always bring up suggestions to the other mods and the admins. I really wanna work with everyone here so please suggest away. Off topic posts, flaming, rude comments will not be tolerated in this thread.
Thanks,
Ryan
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I commend you. I could imagine your task at hand is like trying to clean up the streets of St Louis by yourself. It has become anarchy here, just people running their mouth with no consequence. You deleted one of my posts because it became off topic, I was actually happy, because it was deserved.
My only suggestion is consequence. I know it's hard to really "punish" someone over the internet, but any kind of action should be taken to breaking the rules.
Thanks for taking your time just to read post over post, just to see if people are following rules.
Thanks for taking the time to respond! Believe me there will be consequences if people break forum rules and I'm making a personal commitment to be extremely active here and do everything I can to make it better for everyone.
Ryanmo5 said:
Thanks for taking the time to respond! Believe me there will be consequences if people break forum rules and I'm making a personal commitment to be extremely active here and do everything I can to make it better for everyone.
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You're welcome. See you around
I think one of the problems that has gotten worse lately is the way new members are treated. Please see here from today:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1166265
I understand about searching, etc, and repetitive threads, but there is a right way and a wrong way to handle things and too many members here have started acting unacceptably to new members imo. It sets a tone and then the new members act the same way and the problem snowballs on itself and we end up with a forum of everyone being rude to one another.
anyway just my opinion and thanks for your efforts in cleaning things up
One of the biggest problems I have seen around Tbolt forums, is the fact that developers bust their asses for us and MANY people act as if it's a Dev's privilege for us to be using their Roms and what ever else. People should be thankful we get all these nice Roms and themes and what ever else for FREE. The other big problem I see is people not searching I've asked quite a few questions but MANY more have been answered just by using the search feature.
I know we have stickys but I think a big Noob sticky would help cut out some of the mess/easily answered questions.
Old MuckenMire said:
I think one of the problems that has gotten worse lately is the way new members are treated. Please see here from today:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1166265
I understand about searching, etc, and repetitive threads, but there is a right way and a wrong way to handle things and too many members here have started acting unacceptably to new members imo. It sets a tone and then the new members act the same way and the problem snowballs on itself and we end up with a forum of everyone being rude to one another.
anyway just my opinion and thanks for your efforts in cleaning things up
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VERY unacceptable, thanks for pointing out thread it has been cleaned and closed. We were all newbies at one point and those replies are the exact thing I'm trying to rid xda of. Thanks for the help!
ScoobarSTI said:
One of the biggest problems I have seen around Tbolt forums, is the fact that developers bust their asses for us and MANY people act as if it's a Dev's privilege for us to be using their Roms and what ever else. People should be thankful we get all these nice Roms and themes and what ever else for FREE. The other big problem I see is people not searching I've asked quite a few questions but MANY more have been answered just by using the search feature.
I know we have stickys but I think a big Noob sticky would help cut out some of the mess/easily answered questions.
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Sadly that's the way it has always been, there are always those users who are on here to simply tear people down and complain. Maybe its boredom but its something that has always bothered me as well. Not sure there's much anyone can do about it however, unless they are flaming and posting rude comments that's when the mods can do their thing. If enough complaints are reported about certain users then action is also justified so don't be afraid to let us know.
I'm gonna improve the sticky I put up in the dev section to include more info for noobs and see if that helps.
Ryanmo5 said:
VERY unacceptable, thanks for pointing out thread it has been cleaned and closed. We were all newbies at one point and those replies are the exact thing I'm trying to rid xda of. Thanks for the help!
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No problem man, and I'm not trying to rat people out either. I just wanted to show an example of what has been going on. A lot of members here(even me included at times I'm sure) have been acting like this is our forum instead of us all acting like guests here and treating others as guests as well.
It's so hard to clean things up and police them, what one person feels should be asked in a thread for a specific ROM another person feels should be in the "general" or Q&A section.
If I'm having a "general" (ie battery, GPS, etc.) issue after I flash a ROM I'm going to look to that ROM's thread for answers - I find that if I post something in the 'general' forum about a specific ROM I get all kinds of answers from folks running different ROMs or that are not rooted and, while I appreciate the help, I don't think that somebody is as able to help unless they are on that particular s/ware. Isn't battery life and/or GPS a development issue if a lot of people are having that problem? Spin off to a new thread, reduce clutter, and post a link to the thread in the OP. (then you can at least chastise somebody if the info is in the first post which should ALWAYS be read in its entirety).
I think it would be nice if a developer would put in the OP a couple links to specific threads that have been started that are talking about specific issues w/a specific ROM. Right now the CM7 development thread has spawned a couple different troubleshooting threads, but there is no link in the OP to those.
On one of my previous ROMs the OP had all kinds of links to help threads and FAQ, etc.
I also think that the old "if you can't say something nice...." saying should be rule #1 - it would save a LOT of issues when somebody chimes in and says "how do I.....?" and somebody else responds with "why don't you try reading/searching, etc." - why can't they just take the same amount of energy they used typing that snide comment and instead point in a helpful direction?
I understand the frustration, I too get tired of the same Q's being asked over and over again but I've also failed at the "search" on the site and had to have people guide me, especially when it's something I'm new to, like Netflix, etc.
Now I'm just rambling......
ScoobarSTI said:
I know we have stickys but I think a big Noob sticky would help cut out some of the mess/easily answered questions.
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I really doubt it will.
I can see what everyone is saying. I've been involved with Android phones since day one and have been active on several boards for many years now.
I was with T-Mobile for over 15 years and am a Pillar on their boards, so I've spent alot of time there.
I've used XDA for some time now with the G1, G2, Cliq, MyTouch, etc.
When I got the Thunderbolt, I came to this forum and I noticed a very different "air" about this forum as others had pointed out. I found it kinda odd since the phone was so new.
One thing that I did notice was that "moderation" (and I know everyone is busy around here) is not as, for lack of a better word..."swift" around here. On most other boards I am on (and also ran), rules violations were not tolerated and handled very quickly with "Time outs" being given out to minor offenders and outright bans given to major offenders.
That being said, as other have said, unless there is a consequence for an action, the behavior will continue.
Not sure what can be done to help monitor this board better, since I do not know how all of it is handled internally, but I think if there was more of a moderator presence (as in jumping into a thread and posting about staying on topic or watching language, etc). Maybe the "bad boys" will just get tired of not being able to "terroize" anyone anymore and just leave.
Just my two cents.
2 issue's that see on this board (and others) -
1. Anyone that ask a question already posted is immediately called a N00b and slammed on.
2. Just cause someone has low post count they are called N00b (yep happens to me on this one)
It seems that there is no patience by many user's on answering questions (if you don't have kids wait till you do, you will be answering them many times over) why get so flustered cause people ask questions, whether or not they have been answered. Not everyone is a N00b because of low post count (I know I'm not and can hold my own anytime) I also don't act like I know everything either. Some people can't let things go either.. if you don't like it why respond? just ignore it. A little common courtesy goes a long way folks. Also folks asking for things to be fixed ASAP on newly released Roms and refuse to use them until they are or they ***** and complain over and over about the issue. Just a question, do you act like this at home or deal with things like this at home with programs you use? All software has issue's if you think they don't or your the perfect programmer, you don't belong doing this. Even major software and telecom companies have bugs that happen that are not always caught on release. Its normal and if you can do better and want everything perfect, then start programming!
I'm actually planning on creating an introductory FAQ/howto for new users. I've written documentation for new users to Linux in the past and many of the questions parallel. I'm more than happy to help in any way I can
sent from my rooted Thunderbolt with das BAMF 3.0 rc4
admiralspark said:
I'm actually planning on creating an introductory FAQ/howto for new users. I've written documentation for new users to Linux in the past and many of the questions parallel. I'm more than happy to help in any way I can
sent from my rooted Thunderbolt with das BAMF 3.0 rc4
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Feel free to add to it!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1168433
i commend you for this ryan but it's gonna take more than just you to make xda a better place to be. the issue is instead of people just answering questions, they always say "search" .....what a waste.
the other issue is this site seems to be run by the members and not the devs, nobodies hardly on here anymore it seems. it also takes forever for a mod to show up when you report something. now don't get me wrong i love xda for the freedom i have to an extent, i also do not want a police state like android central is. there has got to be a medium somehow.
i wish we could of talked about this earlier, i hate the fact soo many devs have left the tbolt section.
I'm glad to see an effort is being made, it's going to take work from everyone.
Perhaps we could have a subforum for unrooted users? There's a lot of questions where one assumes the person is rooted (because they don't bother to say) or users that aren't rooted are looking at the wrong topics to figure out what is wrong. There's also a lot of flaming between those that root and haven't rooted on the Thunderbolt forums it seems.
For example:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1169292
As a rooted user, this post would just be a waste of space and pretty offtopic. For an unrooted user, you're going to get the obligatory "ORLY???" type posts from rooted users because to those that rooted, this is old news (either because they already got the update ages ago or they changed their boot animation to something custom).
yareally said:
Perhaps we could have a subforum for unrooted users? There's a lot of questions where one assumes the person is rooted (because they don't bother to say) or users that aren't rooted are looking at the wrong topics to figure out what is wrong. There's also a lot of flaming between those that root and haven't rooted on the Thunderbolt forums it seems.
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i dunno if id support that move, the forums can be cluttered enough as it is. if your not rooted at all i have no idea why some of you are on here? this place is for custom rom, mods and themes for rooted users mostly. no offense of course but most users come here too root.
fixxxer2008 said:
i dunno if id support that move, the forums can be cluttered enough as it is. if your not rooted at all i have no idea why some of you are on here? this place is for custom rom, mods and themes for rooted users mostly. no offense of course but most users come here too root.
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I'd say probably 20% that come here don't root. I have no idea why either when they could go to more general forums for android out there that aren't so development/rooting focused. I really don't have much empathy for them when they complain about things being broke/not having fancy new features, but eh, each to their own. They would be better off complaining to the source (verizon) than complaining on here cluttering up the forum, since most of their issues cannot be fixed without doing what the refuse to do.
With that being said, a seperate forum would let them figure stuff out without getting in the way of those that did root.