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It would be nice to hear some opinions on this following thoughts I've had, ever since I upgraded my phone last year from an iPhone 3G (2.5mp camera I think) to an Xperia Arc S, which at the time was the highest quality / size MP camera on a phone at 8MP, which is still a decent size for a phone camera today, as mid-ranged phones usually start at around 5-8MP and the super smart phones these days are running upward of 10MP, I think 13MP is the highest, at least on Android, that Nokia Symbian phone was like... 42MP? Or at least the fidelity / quality resembled that due to its massive lens housing, god knows what was in there, but if I remember rightly it was only 5MP images... Someone correct me.
Anyway, with my Arc S at 8MP, the images are fairly decent, I mean they're never going to be used for print, so it doesn't really need to be higher. However, as an art graduate, I spend time when I can taking photographs, and I have a 14MP Sony NEX 5, which as standard is already a better quality sensor than the tiny ones that make it into a phone.
My first point is it's still only 1MP higher than these smartphones, which makes me think; say I upgrade my phone in 1 year when 16MP is the highest, now we've gone over, for me I'm reluctant to go higher than my camera because I'd probably be swayed to using the phone more for photography, though the phones would probably have to be double the MP of a decent camera to really compare.
Secondly, Lenses, well the one on my Arc S is fairly standard, though probably more complex than some others as I think it has 7 layers of various shaped pieces of glass. But when it comes down to it, any photographer will tell you it's almost 100% the lens that really makes a photograph what it is, the phones are getting better quality, but the lenses probably aren't, the phones are constantly trying to get thinner which doesn't help matters, but phones have actually gotten fatter sue to bigger screens needing bigger battery, so I'm unsure on this part of the topic.
The lenses I use on my NEX are Canon FD mounts, a format from the early to mid 70's all the way up to about 1994, they are manual lenses because of their age and incompatibility with modern auto-focus, but the quality is superb, and I'm not just saying it, one of the lenses is a 1.4 50mm prime, and can do some great shots, though the camera isn't full frame so the lens works out at 75mm, but I also have a 28mm 2.2 (I think?) prime, which works out around 42mm and is really good.
Both lenses are dated between 1972 and 1982, and no current phone could replicate the fidelity, bokeh and colour, which is one of the reasons why proper cameras will always have the advantage. (The NEX doesn't have a mirror inside so can replicate the original setup of older cameras easily, meaning a huge number of adaptors allows tons of different lenses to become available)
However with the Nokia pureview phone (still don't remember its name... 850?...) It had a body capable of housing some very interesting tech, that hasn't really been used since, at least to my knowledge. Seeing some pictures online really showed you what this phone was capable of, I think the resolution of the images were in the ten thousands X whatever, and remained really sharp, for a phone at least. Maybe it's lack of success is due to it been on a non-leading OS at the time, I can imagine people would want a camera with maybe an Android phone? (Which apparently, Nokia are working on) so maybe it will see it's true colours shine on a larger base OS. If this tech is worth the larger body size of a phone, people are going to want it...
And lastly, Convenience. One of the main points of having a camera is to be able to capture moments WHENEVER, and having a decent camera on a phone has been a growing trend over the past few years, with the growth of social networks, YouTube and Instagram. And you're more likely to have a phone with you than a camera for a situation that's spontaneous.
So what are peoples thoughts? A few months back Jessops one of the leading camera sales company in the UK went into administration, with only a few stores been saved;
Will we see a heightening trend amongst phones been used instead of standalone cameras?
Will they (DSLR's etc) be phased out completely?
Are you an avid photographer with your phone, or do you use a standalone camera?
Am I wrong?
I'd like to hear some opinions, hopefuly some educated ones on the subject will give a sense on the spectrum of issues.
Another point to consider, Smart-Cameras, the new trend of cameras running Android, though I don't think any have interchangeable lenses.
Thanks for reading, also... You may need to change some 'if's to 'of's because my phone has a habit of changing my words.
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I use my phone for everyday rubbish shots (whatsapp and such) and storing information (bustimes, lists, important stuff i take a snapshot of.) .
It will NEVER replace my DSLR.
It simply lacks the functionalities of one. So long as I can't set aperture and change lenses, it's not a real camera. I need my telezoom and macro lenses.
You can't seriously expect a phone, even that 42mp one to be as high - quality as a dslr. Too many pixels crammed into way too small a sensor. As it has always been with phones.
Not to mention, phones lack the power of a dslr. Ever tried taking nightshots with a phone? They're bad. Very bad. Or high speed shots. Nuhuh, they cant. Or far-zoom?
Lets face it, cameras on phones are not meant for professionals. They're meant for people on facebook, twitter and instagram.
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ShadowLea said:
I use my phone for everyday rubbish shots (whatsapp and such) and storing information (bustimes, lists, important stuff i take a snapshot of.) .
It will NEVER replace my DSLR.
It simply lacks the functionalities of one. So long as I can't set aperture and change lenses, it's not a real camera. I need my telezoom and macro lenses.
You can't seriously expect a phone, even that 42mp one to be as high - quality as a dslr. Too many pixels crammed into way too small a sensor. As it has always been with phones.
Not to mention, phones lack the power of a dslr. Ever tried taking nightshots with a phone? They're bad. Very bad. Or high speed shots. Nuhuh, they cant. Or far-zoom?
Lets face it, cameras on phones are not meant for professionals. They're meant for people on facebook, twitter and instagram.
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Man how can you compare a DSLR with a smartphone camera??, a DSLR is a camera with an awesome quality and the smartphone camera is only a phone with a decent camera and not for pro- photographers.. i would always choose a DLSR over a smartphone camera. And by the way i agree with ShadowLea that you can't cram 42mp in a small lens!!! it is outrageous!
Well, it's to do with trends, if you agree or not is a different matter, but lots of pro photographers and teachers will tell you if you ask, about how important this new revolution is, the quality you can get is pretty good, even compared to digital cameras less than 10 years ago.
If it can take photographs then it's a valid form, there are pro photographers then spend lots of their time using phones for photography, 5MP and decent light is enough, some of these phones are better quality than the point and shoot cameras of recent past.
Instagram, though trendy is a very valid post processing tool, just because the majority of people use it recreationaly it doesn't diminish its power, and usage.
People use Polaroid cameras all the time, and they're quite limited, and the quality can vary greatly. You can't change the lens, and you can't really adjust any settings.
Polaroid is probably most comparable to the quality of the mid range smartphones.
As for the Nokia 41MP camera phone, if you actually look at the images you can get a good sense of the quality. The short article can be found here:
http://www.extremetech.com/electron...review-camera-finally-coming-to-windows-phone
You can also easily find examples by doing an image search on Nokia Pureview.
The convenience of a very good quality camera phone can allow for great photos, which is why it's really taking off as a trend.
Denying it is the same arguments as saying Digital is better than Film, though there are still counter arguments, benefits and people still use film cameras and Polaroid.
There's a statistic recently that goes something like; there have been more photographs taken in 2012 than all previous years since photography's invention combined.
I'm not sure if that's word for word correct, but I think it was on a Vsauce YouTube video not long back.
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I think you need to understand that Professional stands for "getting paid for your work" or "being an accomplished/awarded photographer" and not "I can hold a camera!".
Yes, there have been more photo's taken in the last year than since the invention of the photograph. I do hope you are also aware that this includes every halfbrained moron on Instagram and Facebook posting their friday-night drunk shots.
No selfrespecting real photographer uses a phone's camera for his or her work. The only ones that do are either A, doing an experiment, or B, people on the internet fooling themselves into thinking they're photographers.
PHONE CAMERAS DO NOT HAVE APERATURE SETTINGS. And that's where it all ends. There isn't a single pro or semi-pro who uses a fixed aperature camera.
42MP doesn't make a bloody difference if the sensor is meant for 2MP. The photo's may look fine on the internet, but newsflash: Your monitor is 72DPI, not 300. And a 6000x6000 pixel image is always going to look amazing when downsized to 1920x1080 or lower. (which is what every website does.)
As for trends, they're for the common cattle, not semi/professionals. People with knowledge and experience pay attention to specs, not to hypes.
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ShadowLea said:
I think you need to understand that Professional stands for "getting paid for your work" or "being an accomplished/awarded photographer" and not "I can hold a camera!".
Yes, there have been more photo's taken in the last year than since the invention of the photograph. I do hope you are also aware that this includes every halfbrained moron on Instagram and Facebook posting their friday-night drunk shots.
No selfrespecting real photographer uses a phone's camera for his or her work. The only ones that do are either A, doing an experiment, or B, people on the internet fooling themselves into thinking they're photographers.
PHONE CAMERAS DO NOT HAVE APERATURE SETTINGS. And that's where it all ends. There isn't a single pro or semi-pro who uses a fixed aperature camera.
42MP doesn't make a bloody difference if the sensor is meant for 2MP. The photo's may look fine on the internet, but newsflash: Your monitor is 72DPI, not 300. And a 6000x6000 pixel image is always going to look amazing when downsized to 1920x1080 or lower. (which is what every website does.)
As for trends, they're for the common cattle, not semi/professionals. People with knowledge and experience pay attention to specs, not to hypes.
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I think you're missing my point, I meant professional photographers that use iPhones for photography for non print, recreation, street photography etc.
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For those interested in hearing a pro talk about it, I present, Chase Jarvis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buDa-m65RyA&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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EDIT: There are probably dozens of reviews/comparisons, but here are two just from today that are also harsh: Krystal Key and PocketNow. And UrAverageConsumer's wife's comments here and here "it does look a little washed out...it is a little soft...I'm not a fan of it...it's good enough..."
The consensus seems to be that the front camera is "soft" (aka it looks permanently out of focus or blurry), the rear cam consistently blows out highlights with or without HDR, and video is wobbly and distorted despite ois AND eis. To be clear (pun intended) this is not a problem with the sensors, but with Samsung's processing. If Google's Camera app didn't disable HDR+ on non-Nexus devices then the S8 it would very likely take the best pictures of any smartphone ever.
Here are my samples shot with my S8 with the better Sony sensors, and a Nexus 6P from 18 months ago. For maximum quality from the S8, HDR is enabled and beauty disabled. 6P is in auto mode. Be sure to right click on the side-by-side compilation images and open in a new tab to see them at full size, where the detail quality—rather than just the light/color quality—is most apparent.
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FULL GALLERY
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Rear Cam Side-by-Side 1/2 - VIEW AT 100%
Full Res: N6P — GS8
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Rear Cam Side-by-Side 2/2 - VIEW AT 100%
Full Res: N6P — GS8
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Front Cam Set 1/5: N6P — GS8
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Front Cam Set 2/5: N6P — GS8
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Front Cam Set 3/5: N6P — GS8
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Front Cam Set 4/5: N6P — GS8
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Front Cam Set 5/5: N6P — GS8
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BONUS - 2MP tablet front cam with no HDR from 2015
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SUPER BONUS - Mystery camera! Can you guess?
My first impression of the camera coming from a S6, is that it sucks, yes it's better in low light, but if there is decent to good light it is much worse, all my pictures look muddy where the S6 taken at its side looks sharp. really ruins the phone for me!
.psd said:
All in the interest of honesty (it's OK to be honest!)
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Good lord. GSMArena, AnandTech, and Notebookcheck do exhaustive subjective reviews. GSMArena's and Notebookcheck's camera evaluations are linked below. Spoiler alert: they don't agree with your objective testing of your sister's phone.
http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_s8-review-1603p9.php
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Samsung-Galaxy-S8-Plus-SM-G955F-Smartphone-Review.213438.0.html
Samsung frontcams are always behind the competition. Not sure why. Agreed with OP's honest review.
BarryH_GEG said:
Good lord. GSMArena, AnandTech, and Notebookcheck do exhaustive subjective reviews. GSMArena's and Notebookcheck's camera evaluations are linked below. Spoiler alert: they don't agree with your objective testing of your sister's phone.
http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_s8-review-1603p9.php
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Samsung-Galaxy-S8-Plus-SM-G955F-Smartphone-Review.213438.0.html
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I also included nearly 30 minutes of reviews of the camera by PocketNow and Krystal Key, but there are likely dozens of reviews by now showing the same thing.
The front cam looks like it's always out of focus—what reviewers universally are calling "soft". The rear cam consistently blows out the highlights even with HDR on. Video is wobbly and distorted despite having OIS AND EIS. In all cases, this is due to Samsung's processing because devices with inferior sensors from Google or Apple don't have these problems.
Something here in which i agree is that over-exposing. The Galaxy S8 loves doing this in certain situations where it shouldn't be doing but most of all is the auto-focus feature for me. Auto-Focus can be a mess when it wants too, simple macros where it should focus with ease it can't do that. I took my S6 and i found that in certain situations it was able to get a faster better macro with one tap compared to the S8. I felt that this one is a bit sloppy, and requires a lot of fiddling to get a good focus point. But don't get me wrong, whenever the phone is able to focus and does a good job in auto mode the photos look amazing. Overall my only complaint is the auto-focus on close-up shots and some over exposing. I really think these can be tweaked with a software update but honestly this phone should have had a completely new rear camera in the first place without being forced to wait for the new Note. I still believe this phone was a bit rushed, it looks stunning and awesome performance but man those software tweaks and scrolling bugs, and stutters and red screens could have been avoided. Oh yes.. let's not forget that Image Stabilization , wobbly videos and front face focus as mentioned above, i think these sometimes do a mess of a job. Real let down from the camera side of things for me.
I didn't do detailed comparison but for rear camera, which is the one i care the most, my S8+ seems similar and even slightly better than my Note 7.
Consumer Reports did more detailed comparison, they think the s8 has the best 12MP camera there is. And according this photo, in low light it's indeed a lot better than the s7.
https://youtu.be/3MmjHMWwtPU
So no, the s8 rear camera is NOT The Worst On A Flagship Phone In Years
My short time with the camera is the opposite. S8 front is marginally better than the 6p. Will do more testing.
No issues, amazing camera. Coming from a Pixel, pixel does look nicer but not by far.
When someone is doing pixel peeping, i am sure you can find flaws about every cameras out there. I look at overall quality and usability such as speed of launch and speed of taking the actual picture. After all phone pictures are all about capturing the moment.
Turn off one of the stabilizations. They dont both need to be on. Also, every samsung has let you adjust the exposure level..
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The pictures are a lot better than the pictures the HTC M8 took.
Darkestred said:
My short time with the camera is the opposite. S8 front is marginally better than the 6p. Will do more testing.
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Any examples? I posted several, and I've not come across a single instance where the S8 is superior.
I just bought this phone for $800 and have the Nexus 6P sitting right next to me. Money isn't an issue. I don't make income from hyping the S8 or from my brand. I have no interest in suggesting the S8 camera is any better or worse than it is. Would be really interested to see you post actual selfies like I did to support your claim that, despite reviews and my 10 pictures posted, the S8 takes superior front cam pictures.
willymcd said:
My first impression of the camera coming from a S6, is that it sucks, yes it's better in low light, but if there is decent to good light it is much worse, all my pictures look muddy where the S6 taken at its side looks sharp. really ruins the phone for me!
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Whoa, no way the s6 takes better pictures. I just did my own comparison and ask the s6 photos are so dark and fuzzy
.psd said:
Any examples? I posted several, and I've not come across a single instance where the S8 is superior.
I just bought this phone for $800 and have the Nexus 6P sitting right next to me. Money isn't an issue. I don't make income from hyping the S8 or from my brand. I have no interest in suggesting the S8 camera is any better or worse than it is. Would be really interested to see you post actual selfies like I did to support your claim that, despite reviews and my 10 pictures posted, the S8 takes superior front cam pictures.
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I never said anything about that. I just said in my use i feel its better. Here are 2 sample pics i did. I dont have any fancy setup so its all manual and i realize my pictures are not lined up but i got lazy. I feel the color in the s8 is way nicer and while it does get soft or blend in details like my scruff - i still think overall it does a nicer shot. Its not always a perfect shot. out of the 6 i took one came out blurry.
If my pictures aren't perfect enough - i really do not care. Take it for what its worth.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3F4QJb82X1ReV9mVUMzRzJTdmc
I too made a thread because I noticed how soft this front camera is. I'm super disappointed.
@.psd
I appreciate the work you did, but can you provide the original pics with EXIF data included?
thx
Here is a great review on the S8 camera. https://youtu.be/NAEVPxQ4MCw
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Looking at the pics it does look like the S8 shots are worse(maybe not) / different from other phones. In all of these reviews the one thing no one has mentioned is that smartphone cameras are largely software dependent. While the S8 is on software that has come right out of the box, 6p as used here has had a whole year's worth of updates some of which definitely did bring updates to the camera software. I still love the S8 and believe that future software updates can and will iron out the issues with the camera. (Just hoping Samsung doesn't drop the ball on the updates front).
Eddie Hicks said:
Here is a great review on the S8 camera. https://youtu.be/NAEVPxQ4MCw
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That's the one I linked in the OP...??
kornelius1982 said:
@.psd
I appreciate the work you did, but can you provide the original pics with EXIF data included?
thx
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No because image hosts strip the metadata for user protection (e.g. location data) and it would take too long to do it for each picture the following way (e.g. undelete them from google photos and screencap some of the metadata minus the location, then save each file, then upload it, then link it here):
Here's the data for 2 of them to prove they were shot on the S8:
#1 — #2
Anyone have any good gimbal recommendation that they use with the V30? I was thinking of getting the Zhiyun Smooth Q or DJI Osmo Mobile 2. Chime in if you have any recommendations. Thanks.
Hello,
I'm also interested.
I had the bad idea of buying a YI gimbal but I had to return it.
The app was terrible and never connected with the gimbal.
Moreover the gimbal itself was probably able to manage only shorter smartphones.
With LG V30 put in landscape whole rotation wasn't possible because the phone touched the gimbal.
Moreover with phone put in the correct position (with screen on the free side of the gimbal) the wide screen camera showed the gimbal on the right side.
I read on reddit that someone simply mounted the V30 putting the screen toward the gimbal, but doing so the screen isn't completely visible.
Moreover I also read that people is using stock camera because gimbal apps doesn't offer 4K video and aren't V30 compatible.
But doing so also complex gimbal movements aren't possible and is only available the gimbal joystick.
A really bad experience.
Is there someone that uses a gimbal with the following:
1. V30 mounted in the correct direction and widescreen camera not standing in the eyeline
2. App working on V30
3. 4K video
Thanks in advance
I'm using the V30 with a Dji Osmo Mobile 2. It works but with some issues.
- The Dji app is crap, can't shoot more than 720p with it.
- The OIS of the normal lens is fighting with the gimbal's motors. Standing shots are good, but walking isn't really feasible. Not because of the up and down bobbing but because the phone's OIS starts interfering pretty badly and makes the image too wobbly and warped. Correction in post is not possible. At least not if you want to maintain the 4K resolution.
- The wide angle lens isn't usable with the gimbal held normally (upwards or flashlight mode). The lens is too wide and the gimbal will be in the frame. If you try to place the phone more to the left in the clamp until the gimbal is completely out of the frame, the gimbal can't be balanced anymore. Maybe it would work by modding the gimbal and adding more counterweight on the right side. Not sure the motors could safely handle the extra weight though. Probably not.
- The picture quality is trash with the built in app (too much noise reduction that can't be turned off, insufficient bitrate). But if you don't care too much about getting the highest picture quality that's possible or just don't notice that detail and textures are wiped out for no reason, then the built-in camera is perfectly usable. The only useful feature that's lost is Active tracking, but with some practice anyone can learn to track manually probably better than Dji's Active tracking.
- In my opinion the only app that produces decent footage is FiLMiC Pro which needs to be purchased. It can shoot Log, turn off LG's ****ty noise reduction and bump the bitrate to 100-120 Mbps for both h264 and h265, significantly boosting the level of detail.
But this solution isn't 100% perfect either. There are some issues with the manual focus when you need to make tilt shots. This phone has the weirdest focus mechanism I've ever seen. It seems to be dependent on the phone's rotation on the Y axis. Let's say I focus on a subject standing in front at 1.5 meters and the phone is held straight. If if I tilt the camera towards the ground, the focus point will move closer proportionally with the rotation. If the phone is rotated towards the sky, the focus point will move further away. It's like one of the lenses just floats uncontrolled and is screwed over by gravity.
This affects the manual focus on all 3rd party apps that I've tried and what's worse is that when the phone is rotated towards the ground over 30-45 degrees, it can't even manually focus on anything that's further than 0.9-1 meters. Anything over that will be outside of the manual focus range. I've asked FiLMiC why does this happen even though the built-in camera app doesn't have these problems and they said LG doesn't provide full access to their camera API to 3rd party apps. There's nothing they can do about it. Luckily, the autofocus works fine.
TL;DR: I'm not sure I would recommend a gimbal with any phone that has OIS. It's a flawed solution by default and there's no way to turn off the OIS.
Late post, but...
I use a Zhiyun Smooth-Q gimbal with my LG V30. It's a pain because it isn't mounted in the "correct direction" but it does produce somewhat usable footage.
To workaround the issue of the gimbal arm visible in the wide-angle shots, I flip the phone so the screen faces the mounting surface (and I hold the gimbal handle so the controls face away from me) and also have the phone positioned so the lens is as far a possible from the horizontal gimbal arm.
I'll make a video and send you a link to a video with some gimbal footage shot this way using the Zhiyun app which supports 4K within the next week or so.
Any one able to compare the camera with the Samsung S10? Is it better or worse?
Having both phones, I can say it's worse.
The main issue really is the exposure and whatever HDR+ algorithm they're implementing in the stock camera app. Even though they said it's the same HRD algorithm that was applied by google for pixel phones, I still think it's over exposing everything especially the low tones and shadows - this produce a very unnatural looking picture. (If I wear a black shirt, my pic came out as if I'm wearing a gray shirt due to overexposure on the shadows).
On the other hand, I'm really loving the flip camera and the ability to use wide angle for selfie/group selfie and video. That is definitely the highlight of this hardware. But I will be lying if I say I'm not struggling to love the quality of the pictures produced by this phone.
Have you tried the GCAM port? for me it produces better pics...
The Asus stock camera is hit or miss. Too inconsistent for me, especially the HDR++ mode.
But with arnova's GCam port it is simply amazing and blows away even the pixel 3 cameras.
The wide angle camera in our Asus does not focus as good as the main camera ..try it..also the slow motion videos are not that sharp and crisp.
baymon said:
Having both phones, I can say it's worse.
The main issue really is the exposure and whatever HDR+ algorithm they're implementing in the stock camera app. Even though they said it's the same HRD algorithm that was applied by google for pixel phones, I still think it's over exposing everything especially the low tones and shadows - this produce a very unnatural looking picture. (If I wear a black shirt, my pic came out as if I'm wearing a gray shirt due to overexposure on the shadows).
On the other hand, I'm really loving the flip camera and the ability to use wide angle for selfie/group selfie and video. That is definitely the highlight of this hardware. But I will be lying if I say I'm not struggling to love the quality of the pictures produced by this phone.
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Agreed, that there is sometimes overexposure, but I like more Asus camera's bright photos instead of GCAM darker photos. GCAM is better in very dark, but I prefer Asus camera often, specially for low light photos. Well, I have exposure compensation + 0,4 in GCAM, but still ...
I can easy say that this is the best cellphone camera on the market now, I installed Gcam and activaed raw.
I have never seen a phonecamera produce such a good raw files, even in low light.
Skintones, natural colors is great on this camera, Samsung, Sony, Huawei. and lot of other manufactors are terrible when it comes to natural skintones, overuse of noisce reduction....
Also the 4K 60fps is very natural and doesn't have the unatural look that almost every other brand have.
Hey, anyone found any external lenses for the p20 pro camera, I had a nifty little set for my p20 wondering what other people have been using
If you mean for the P30 - as this is the P30 Pro xda page - then it's unlikely.
I have tried using kit lenses with mine and it's a royal PITA because it keeps changing between the lenses automatically. As such you can't predict what it'll try and use and how the resulting image will be affected. Was far too much faff, especially when the 10x hybrid zoom works perfectly fine for my needs.
Yeah p30 pro lol my bad writing.
All these multiple camera setups seem to have killed the lenses off
I wouldn't say that's a bad thing to be honest. From my experience they gave a very narrow field of view, major vignetting and required you to crop the image after taking. This then resulted - in recent experience - in an image that is of lower quality had I just used the digital zoom of the device itself.
It's a blase statement, but if you want to be taking pictures with mega zoom then look to get an entry level DSLR - it's a huge step up over a smartphone camera, even in today's world, and you can get yourself a nice cheap telephoto lens that'll take pictures of things at the end of the garden like you're stood next to them.
Buy a cheap £8 lens for your high-end camera and you'll likely have a bad time. You'll also encounter the issues of laser autofocus not being able to function as the lens will block it resulting in crappy focus as well.