[REQUEST] [i9500] Invitation to Developers

[REQUEST] [i9500] Invitation to Developers - Galaxy S 4 General

Hey guys,
I have been an active member in the i9500 forum for quite some time now. I'm proud of the way our existing developers have made us a usable, in fact almost stable CM11 ROM. I applaud them for their genuine efforts. But I recently got the Nexus 5 and previously had the Galaxy S3 i9300. Being an avid flasher, I cant help but feel dissatisfied with the level of development we have for our current device.
So what I propose is this. Let's request developers to come and develop for us. Let's send mails, post in other forums, tweet to them and do whatever it takes. We have a solid base in CM already. I'm sure we can have at least some devs who'd be interested in coming and developing and look at this device as a challenge. I have already started this process with inviting Yank (those with S3 would be familiar with his work). He says he's bogged down with other devices but I'm sure if enough of us request him, he'll help us with his work.
Lastly, I'd like to thank @Alberto96, @runedrune, @intervigil, @AndreiLux, @al_iraqi, @iamsachin and everyone else who has contributed to this device.
Please post your thoughts or comments below. Let's take this initiative to make our device supported by maximum number of developers.
Sent from my GT-I9500 using xda app-developers app

I agree but i think we should find the best developer's in the whole forum and ask them if they would like to help us if he wants then we should donate to get him an i9500 for the work
Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk

Let's bring it to the notice of developers of AOKP, Slim ROMs, PAC and others that we have an almost stable CM 11 base rom. I'm sure they'd be interested in supporting another device.
Sent from my GT-I9500 using xda app-developers app

What exactly do you want as "development "? I keep seeing such complaints and mostly it's just hot air without ever any concrete feature request or technical insight in what's being demanded.
We don't need development for the sake of development. Other forums are riddled with crap upon crap of ROMs and stuff with everybody doing their own thing, and it's 80% nonsense and useless.
Then there's the nature and demographic of the userbase on this device; which in my opinion leaves much to be desired. I single-handedly brought up all the kernel stuff myself from scratch, but it feels like it didn't matter anyway because there's no audience for it save the few souls who really care. Not to mention <5 donations in the last 5 months, which will certainly cause me to sell this device in the next few months instead of keeping it so that I can offset the next purchase. The US/EU community was much more fun to work with.
So again, what do you really want? There's by now a bug-free AOSP tree and I'm keeping a fully featured kernel up. If you want development then work with the existing people, because frankly asking other devs to come in and magically fulfill your expectations seems overly dismissive of the existing options and reeks a bit of ignorance towards the notion of developments in general.

AndreiLux said:
What exactly do you want as "development "? I keep seeing such complaints and mostly it's just hot air without ever any concrete feature request or technical insight in what's being demanded.
We don't need development for the sake of development. Other forums are riddled with crap upon crap of ROMs and stuff with everybody doing their own thing, and it's 80% nonsense and useless.
Then there's the nature and demographic of the userbase on this device; which in my opinion leaves much to be desired. I single-handedly brought up all the kernel stuff myself from scratch, but it feels like it didn't matter anyway because there's no audience for it save the few souls who really care. Not to mention <5 donations in the last 5 months, which will certainly cause me to sell this device in the next few months instead of keeping it so that I can offset the next purchase. The US/EU community was much more fun to work with.
So again, what do you really want? There's by now a bug-free AOSP tree and I'm keeping a fully featured kernel up. If you want development then work with the existing people, because frankly asking other devs to come in and magically fulfill your expectations seems overly dismissive of the existing options and reeks a bit of ignorance towards the notion of developments in general.
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I respect your work. And I am actually amongst the handful people who use your kernel. But that doesn't mean that I'm happy with having one custom kernel and one custom rom. Every rom has its unique feature and every developer has his own signature. I love PA hybrid and Halo, I love AOKP ribbons and I love The Real Dark Slim. That's why I want these developers to come and develop for us. I thank you for your work and wish you don't abandon this device either. As for donations, I'm sure it's not donations that these developers work for. It's just a reward for them if someone donates.
No disrespect but everyone has their own point of view. Let's not generalize. There are plenty of people using this device. There's as good a user base for this device as there has been for other Sammy devices. Lack of development has in fact deterred people from active participation. Every day I see new and new people commenting on threads of cm 11 because finally we have a stable rom.
If you are offended by something I said, I would suggest you don't follow this thread.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using xda app-developers app

Get cash from your hobbies, not the cash that is used to be your hobbies. I dunno what the better english for this as I'm not native speaker. I suggest you andrei to make synapse as a freemium app (some basic features of your kernel is free and for other you must pay or purchase full version apl to configuring it) or make it a full paid app/not free, and it'll give you sum of cash if you doing this as your main source of $. Just my 2cent. Dont flame me.
Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

hotheabilly said:
Get cash from your hobbies, not the cash that is used to be your hobbies. I dunno what the better english for this as I'm not native speaker. I suggest you andrei to make synapse as a freemium app (some basic features of your kernel is free and for other you must pay or purchase full version apl to configuring it) or make it a full paid app/not free, and it'll give you sum of cash if you doing this as your main source of $. Just my 2cent. Dont flame me.
Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
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That will not happen due to Google country restriction policy, simple as that.
I'm just justifying why developers won't come to this device from my own experience and perspective. To even consider getting this late into the game makes even less sense.
---------- Post added 19th January 2014 at 12:08 AM ---------- Previous post was 18th January 2014 at 11:52 PM ----------
modyt said:
But that doesn't mean that I'm happy with having one custom kernel and one custom rom.
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I understand the ROM perspective, but still you don't really say what you want for the other.
modyt said:
It's just a reward for them if someone donates.
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Of course it is. It also means that it's unrewarding if nobody does. Like I said, this is plainly due to the demographic of the userbase. It is very very different from the S3/N2, believe me.

Related

Are devs getting greedy?

Just curious what everyone's opinion is on this.
When I got my first android phone in 2010, a Samsung Fascinate, it seemed to be a burgeoning scene with the developers doing dev'ing for the fun of it and getting rewarded by an appreciative end user.
Fast forward nine months and I am ready for 4g so I slap down my $600 for a charge and watch a molasses like and seemingly dormant dev scene.
There is excuse after excuse as to why the scene is quiet and then there is wind of an "in development" ICS ROM. This is put forth via twitter and then shows up on XDA not even by the developer mind you and everyone gets excited and is flooding said dev with donations on a ROM he labels "the most unsupported ROM ever" and proceeds to let it sit due to the same reason the phone has not had any real attention all along; no RIL code.
When said dev is called on about putting something out labelled "unsupported" and then has the gall to say donate to me(which the dev or mods remove from the thread) if you want the work finished; is this acceptable behaviour?
I am not an end user who is unappreciative and expecting of a dev's work.
I do play with some of the custom stuff for fun on occasion but always come back to stock.
You can keep the simple petty rhetoric that typically ensues to yourself. I am entitled to my $600 phone and that is what I use. Not anyone's work on the forums or IRC! If I do use anything I will test for problems and report back before jumping back to stock and pass along a gesture of appreciation.
Now that I have hopefully made you understand my intentions and absolve anyone of the typical schoolyard bashing that frequents these hallowed walls, is it acceptable for a dev to whip together a ROM that is useless and collect money on it from all of the hopeful and anticipating end users that will not realize an end product?
Especially now that manufacturers are pumping out new phones at an alarming rate that a new phone will be in the shadows every six months.
Thoughts?

Just allow electronic Darwinism to take its course! If someone is taking the piss, they'll soon die out, if people use common sense and don't encourage them

Most devs that I see, Or rather use ROMS from are quite active and very supportive and NEVER even spoke anything about donation. I was happy to donate for a few of them coz it is really worth it.
I think this opinion you speak of might have been due to your ill luck or some pretty bad devs you have encountered.
I'm not saying you are wrong but I'm saying that your prespective might be due to a unlucky or bad dev (one bad apple) incident.

As far as my phone the Desire Hd is concerned, the developers are still just as helpful and enthusiastic as ever.

There is no developer like a bad or good developer, its because of them 99% of people are using roms without donating, 1 % donates to developers

I know a lot of developer who work on projects for free, but even the developers out there like to drink a beer paid from their projects
-> Donations are welcome!

Well,a developer who makes something for XDA and then actually tries to sell it is a downright asshole.Pardon the word,but it's the most accurate description I can give.
This is a community of developers,for developers to share their work.Users are more like guests,who get to use everything for free and just help developers by pointing out flaws in their work.Users enjoy developers' work and developers make their work better constantly,because they want to.No one forced them or employed them here.But then again,it's only right that we should donate to them sometimes.They donate their free time and put large efforts for what's done here,so it's a fair "exchange".But that's it.Donating is optional,as it should be and as is right.The "developers" who try to sell their work here are in the wrong place.
Generally,the better the work,the more donations they will get,so actually instead of asking for money they could just make something better than what's already available and money will come.
We aren't fools who expect everyone to selflessly give us their work in this world,but for Christ's sake,at least pretend that you're selfless!
Anyway,this is in no way an attack or rant against developers,but rather to those self-called developers who exploit the community spirit for their gains.True developers,as most here are I hope,are more than just respected here.

tolis626 said:
Well,a developer who makes something for XDA and then actually tries to sell it is a downright asshole.Pardon the word,but it's the most accurate description I can give.
This is a community of developers,for developers to share their work.Users are more like guests,who get to use everything for free and just help developers by pointing out flaws in their work.Users enjoy developers' work and developers make their work better constantly,because they want to.No one forced them or employed them here.But then again,it's only right that we should donate to them sometimes.They donate their free time and put large efforts for what's done here,so it's a fair "exchange".But that's it.Donating is optional,as it should be and as is right.The "developers" who try to sell their work here are in the wrong place.
Generally,the better the work,the more donations they will get,so actually instead of asking for money they could just make something better than what's already available and money will come.
We aren't fools who expect everyone to selflessly give us their work in this world,but for Christ's sake,at least pretend that you're selfless!
Anyway,this is in no way an attack or rant against developers,but rather to those self-called developers who exploit the community spirit for their gains.True developers,as most here are I hope,are more than just respected here.
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So developers on xda-developers are not allowed to sell software now? There's actually a forum dedicated to paid software, so you're wrong.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=993

Cabe24i said:
Developers should be able to sell software they created, for example; applications, scripts, hell even mods that don't include any work from someone else. In my opinion this shouldn't include ROMs
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I totally agree with that.

Archer said:
I totally agree with that.
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As does XDA, hence the rules at present
This is not a platform to make money from. For anyone who cares, I have made a total of £0.00 from XDA. I don't wish to make personal profit from here.
I spend large numbers of hours on the site, doing stuff behind the scenes. If I was to draw up a "bill" for the past year, it would be in the hundreds of thousands of pounds, based on the price I charge for my services.
But I wouldn't ever want to see myself as selling something here. That's not what this site is about! There's plenty of places to sell stuff. If you make your own app, fair enough. If you modify something belonging to someone else, then nope

bwheelies said:
Just curious what everyone's opinion is on this.
When I got my first android phone in 2010, a Samsung Fascinate, it seemed to be a burgeoning scene with the developers doing dev'ing for the fun of it and getting rewarded by an appreciative end user.
Fast forward nine months and I am ready for 4g so I slap down my $600 for a charge and watch a molasses like and seemingly dormant dev scene.
There is excuse after excuse as to why the scene is quiet and then there is wind of an "in development" ICS ROM. This is put forth via twitter and then shows up on XDA not even by the developer mind you and everyone gets excited and is flooding said dev with donations on a ROM he labels "the most unsupported ROM ever" and proceeds to let it sit due to the same reason the phone has not had any real attention all along; no RIL code.
When said dev is called on about putting something out labelled "unsupported" and then has the gall to say donate to me(which the dev or mods remove from the thread) if you want the work finished; is this acceptable behaviour?
I am not an end user who is unappreciative and expecting of a dev's work.
I do play with some of the custom stuff for fun on occasion but always come back to stock.
You can keep the simple petty rhetoric that typically ensues to yourself. I am entitled to my $600 phone and that is what I use. Not anyone's work on the forums or IRC! If I do use anything I will test for problems and report back before jumping back to stock and pass along a gesture of appreciation.
Now that I have hopefully made you understand my intentions and absolve anyone of the typical schoolyard bashing that frequents these hallowed walls, is it acceptable for a dev to whip together a ROM that is useless and collect money on it from all of the hopeful and anticipating end users that will not realize an end product?
Especially now that manufacturers are pumping out new phones at an alarming rate that a new phone will be in the shadows every six months.
Thoughts?
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Click to collapse
My thoughts? If your main concern was dev scene, why would you get a locked down motorola?

Ok, I have been trolling here for sometime and have seen some devs who ask for donations. However, the vast majority just contribute their time and hard work for the betterment of the platform and the community as a whole.
As for slow development, I think a lot of that has to do with the phone. I have the SGS 2 and there is active development for that with a lot of great roms. My wife has the 4g Slide and the development is slightly slower. It all comes down to the popularity of the phone.

If devs make a product good enough for people to pay for then good for them. On the other hand, if they ask for donations but their software is crap then no one will buy it.
It's a free market, let them try.
It is alot of work and it requires a special skill set to do what devs do, so I can appreciate them asking for a couple bucks for their trouble.

I buy beers/coffee when i see two things..
#1 a good working Rom/ Root / hack /tweak that has a history of upgrades/work/tweaks from the chef.
# 2 the chef is active in the thread, helping others with questions/ issues etc etc..

Archer said:
So developers on xda-developers are not allowed to sell software now? There's actually a forum dedicated to paid software, so you're wrong.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=993
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I agree with Cabe24i.See below.
Cabe24i said:
Developers should be able to sell software they created, for example; applications, scripts, hell even mods that don't include any work from someone else. In my opinion this shouldn't include ROMs, why? Because with the possible exception of building completely from source, you are essentially selling modifications of someone else's software. Especially when you include proprietary drivers and software. Touchscreen drivers, camera drivers, audio drivers, radio drivers and the like in many cases are proprietary and licensed to be resold only by the maker of the device. Receiving donations for development is questionable at best, demanding donations for development is basically selling software you don't have rights to sell.
I think one of the reason I've previously seen mods block these sort of attempts is because it creates a legal issue for XDA itself. Plus you have people who donated but developers wanting more and the person who donated feel cheated.
Thankfully I haven't seen a lot of this in the Evo3D forums, I have seen a lot of RESPECT THE GPL immediately after DON'T EVEN LOOK AT MY CODE when half their code is kanged from someone else's hard work. Usually though, people start getting annoyed and those roms start to die off.
Or you have the case with Chad.Goodman, where he writes decent stuff on his own and people get annoyed by that and contact beats & qualcomm all while they release 'beats' mods on their own stuff. (which still doesn't make any sense to me)
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The point isn't whether they are allowed to accept money for their work.They surely should put their creations on sale.And exactly here is where I agree with you.ROMs and kernels aren't their work.As good as someone's modifications can be,it's not new code written by them entirely(except for some patches,etc).While their work is and should be rewarded,it should in no way become mandatory that we pay to use it.It should be optional as it is.It's fair for everyone that way.Those who deserve it will get paid,end of story.
Selling apps on XDA is another story,but it's also completely right to do so,as they could just sell those on the market and be done with it.But it's about applications written anew,not modified ones.Did anyone sell a modified copy of a game?I don't think so.
We should show our appreciation to developers,but they should also show us some respect(I am more than content with what's going on here on the dev side,it's XDA's ungrateful noobs that I'm mad with like most of you here).Fraud is a crime after all.

I can see both sides of that argument actually. Whilst I do think it's unreasonable for a developer to request money for merely tweaking a ROM, it's the same as a painter painting your living room. He's not made you a brand new living room from scratch. He's just painted your existing one. That's similar to a ROM tweaker.
That said, I do understand and abide by the rules - I'm not arguing them. Just playing devil's advocate.

lowandbehold said:
My thoughts? If your main concern was dev scene, why would you get a locked down motorola?
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Not sure if you are asking me. I have a Droid Charge.

F2504x4 said:
I buy beers/coffee when i see two things..
#1 a good working Rom/ Root / hack /tweak that has a history of upgrades/work/tweaks from the chef.
# 2 the chef is active in the thread, helping others with questions/ issues etc etc..
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This is one of the best posts I have seen on xda. Judging by this, the developer who posted a no effort ROM in a stagnant phone development scene who says donate and does nothing with the ROM is nothing but a modern day P.T. Barnum.

First of all, you don't have to donate
But I agree with OP it's not done to demand donations to finish work.
If your work is good and you support it well, possibilities for a donation are much higher.
But it is no guarantee for donations.
But isn't respect from others the best payment for your work? That's the reason I do my share for the community

[IDEA] Bounty for AOSP build of ICS

Should we pool in for an AOSP ICS build for the skyrocket? Whichever dev comes up with it, gets the cash.
To Developers : PM me and i'll give you the details on how it's going to be ran. I've got a rough draft of a guideline that I think will get a lot of people to donate for the cause.
Update : If I get this up and running, there are going to be some pretty cool, exclusive and interactive things that only backers of this program will experience while the developer works on the roms!
Few facts :
I will not have access to the money raised
If the goal is not met, you will get your money back
The community will choose the winner
Exclusive early access for users who donate

Would that be the first AOSP that works 100% without bugs or the one that is full of little bugs or the one that is delivered half working.
Or maybe the first one that is promised days before it's delivered?

I'd pitch in $5-10 for this. (no idea what a normal contribution would be)

ojx said:
Should we pool in for an AOSP ICS build for the skyrocket? Whichever dev comes up with it, gets the cash.
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Your to new to know this bountys are frownd upon donations are fine and all but bountys are bad juju
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk

CZ Eddie said:
Would that be the first AOSP that works 100% without bugs or the one that is full of little bugs or the one that is delivered half working.
Or maybe the first one that is promised days before it's delivered?
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Works 100%. Minor bugs are okay. The community will decide which dev will get the lump-sum based on best functionality and fluidity of the AOSP rom
edgex said:
I'd pitch in $5-10 for this. (no idea what a normal contribution would be)
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That would be great.
nrm5110 said:
Your to new to know this bountys are frownd upon donations are fine and all but bountys are bad juju
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I'm sorry, I'm having a hard time comprehending you. I'm not new to this board, just never made an account until January. Previous bounties might've gone bad due to bad management. But as long as it's managed properly and have a well thought-out guidelines, I can guarantee it will work.

ojx said:
Works 100%. Minor bugs are okay. The community will decide which dev will get the lump-sum based on best functionality and fluidity of the AOSP rom
That would be great.
I'm sorry, I'm having a hard time comprehending you. I'm not new to this board, just never made an account until January. Previous bounties might've gone bad due to bad management. But as long as it's managed properly and have a well thought-out guidelines, I can guarantee it will work.
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ok guy if you think your the first evil genius and gods gift to the human mind why rush something that's actively being worked on mostly by a group how about patience I know you noobs are bad with that concept but whatever kid waste your money as you see fit me I'll stick to using my money not on the first but the best
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk

nrm5110 said:
ok guy if you think your the first evil genius and gods gift to the human mind why rush something that's actively being worked on mostly by a group how about patience I know you noobs are bad with that concept but whatever kid waste your money as you see fit me I'll stick to using my money not on the first but the best
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I'm not saying I'm some genius trying to take over the game. I know it requires quality time to make something perfect and I'm not trying to change that. You do have to agree if there is a great reward in the end, people will try their best to get it. If you're here to shed some negativity, that's your free-will, I'm not here to stop you. As for money being wasted, there will be none. This fundraiser will only generate interest with the developers and boost productivity thus creating the final piece of work in a timely manner. All the proceeds will go to the winning developer and I will not take ANY cut from it. Say what you will, but I'm only trying for the best of the Skyrocket community.

ojx said:
I'm not saying I'm some genius trying to take over the game. I know it requires quality time to make something perfect and I'm not trying to change that. You do have to agree if there is a great reward in the end, people will try their best to get it. If you're here to shed some negativity, that's your free-will, I'm not here to stop you. As for money being wasted, there will be none. This fundraiser will only generate interest with the developers and boost productivity thus creating the final piece of work in a timely manner. All the proceeds will go to the winning developer and I will not take ANY cut from it. Say what you will, but I'm only trying for the best of the Skyrocket community.
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I'm not trying to shoot you down bro just saying in the past these things have gone bad at one point mods were squashing these before they could start. The problem is that these guys already do this on their own time on top of having familys, scool, jobs, etc. If you really wanna bolster development buy the guys doing this a beer a bounty never improves quality while speeding things up it just speeds things up with a bare minimum quality I know you have provisions and such but still id say find a dev you trust throw a few his way and watch I don't speak from ignorance good sir only from experience
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk

Good thought!
But I feel like you clearly do not know the purpose or the theme of XDA Community! Most of the devs and themers work on their project part time and do not ask for money its their hobby! And most of the devs hate when they are being asked for ETAS! So Good Luck On Your thought!

appdroid said:
Good thought!
But I feel like you clearly do not know the purpose or the theme of XDA Community! Most of the devs and themers work on their project part time and do not ask for money its their hobby! And most of the devs hate when they are being asked for ETAS! So Good Luck On Your thought!
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Appdroid you sir always pop in at wonderful moments
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk

appdroid said:
Good thought!
But I feel like you clearly do not know the purpose or the theme of XDA Community! Most of the devs and themers work on their project part time and do not ask for money its their hobby! And most of the devs hate when they are being asked for ETAS! So Good Luck On Your thought!
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I understand this. I understand that they have busy lives and this is something they do on a part time. This will only happen during a short period of time and they will be rewarded for their hard work. I'm only here to try gather the reward for their hard work. It's not everyday that you get paid for something you love doing on your own time. While I understand some devs hate questions regarding ETAs but something in this case, they surely will be rewarded and have fun in the process. I have some very interesting plans for this and only want nothing but the best outcome for the Skyrocket community.
The way I'm going to run this should be a fun experience for people who are donating to this cause!
I have messaged 5 developers about this idea. Depending on their feedback, I will either go forth or scrap the idea altogether. No harm done. I do appreciate nrm5110 and your concerns though.

ojx said:
I understand this. I understand that they have busy lives and this is something they do on a part time. This will only happen during a short period of time and they will be rewarded for their hard work. I'm only here to try gather the reward for their hard work. It's not everyday that you get paid for something you love doing on your own time. While I understand some devs hate questions regarding ETAs but something in this case, they surely will be rewarded and have fun in the process. I have some very interesting plans for this and only want nothing but the best outcome for the Skyrocket community.
The way I'm going to run this should be a fun experience for people who are donating to this cause!
I have messaged 5 developers about this idea. Depending on their feedback, I will either go forth or scrap the idea altogether. No harm done. I do appreciate nrm5110 and your concerns though.
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I appologize if I insulted you but I just wanted you to be aware man you know what your doing if the devs are cool then by all means
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk

It's okay. The end goal (I hope) is that we, Skyrocket users, will have a smooth running AOSP ICS build! It's a win-win for both devs and the community!
As long as the community has the same desire for an AOSP build as much as I do then there isn't any doubt that this will work out. You don't know how much I HATE TouchWiz. The hate has been refueled ever since I flashed the leaked ICS build. There's no way out for us ICS users right now.

How about this, just an idea. Get a dev who is willing to make Aosp for Skyrocket and get him a skyrocket! Just like what we did for other two devs! Like t989 ppl got raver a t989 and now he is working on aosp. Let's get a dev from other section!

i also would chip in, but i wouldnt trust someone with 53 posts...sorry, i just need someone with a little more rep, unless you set something up that wouldnt involve you having the money

He was one of the 5 dev I've contacted. Since giving the devs a skyrocket in previous cases (as you have stated) has not really worked, this program will get a final build within a month and a half of time with (hopefully) a bigger payout in the end.
polish_pat said:
i also would chip in, but i wouldnt trust someone with 53 posts...sorry, i just need someone with a little more rep, unless you set something up that would involve you having the money
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I will have something set up where I won't have access to the money (no paypal or other shady outlets). I understand your concerns and I already have devised a strategy to give the users who donate confidence that this program is not a scam. Like I've stated before in this thread, participating users who donate will get interactive exclusive access throughout the process. If for some reason that this programs goal is not met, everyone will get their donations back. It's a win-win-win situation. It will be an experience you'd most enjoy! (if it launches)
If you haven't noticed by now, I have started a Skyrocket section over at reddit and manage it with the most up-to-date information about the device (link in my signature). I only care about our community having the best that there is.

Couldn't help but notice you had this posted in your "skyrocket" subreddit...
http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/com...le_to_launch_android_50_jelly_bean_in/c3ruc2t
Now, how are we to trust you again?

thisguy2431 said:
Couldn't help but notice you had this posted in your "skyrocket" subreddit...
http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/com...le_to_launch_android_50_jelly_bean_in/c3ruc2t
Now, how are we to trust you again?
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Everyone is entitled to their opinions. Take it with a grain of salt. That link was an opinion about how a "Forum" system is outdated for advancements in the Android platform. Some threads are bombarded with irrelevant information about the original post that the conversations gets so diluted that it confuses the users.
If I gain interest with the developers I've contacted, I'm pretty sure we can all make this work and will have backers to support the cause.

thisguy2431 said:
Couldn't help but notice you had this posted in your "skyrocket" subreddit...
http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/com...le_to_launch_android_50_jelly_bean_in/c3ruc2t
Now, how are we to trust you again?
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Oh, that's nice! Bashing the whole community, outstanding!

ojx said:
Everyone is entitled to their opinions. Take it with a grain of salt. That link was an opinion about how a "Forum" system is outdated for advancements in the Android platform. Some threads are bombarded with irrelevant information about the original post that the conversations gets so diluted that it confuses the users.
If I gain interest with the developers I've contacted, I'm pretty sure we can all make this work and will have backers to support the cause.
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Well the poster of that comment clearly doesn't understand what XDA is. It is a community of hobbyists that do this in their spare time. They are free to do it however they please and condemning them for sharing their work that they could very well just keep to themselves is just arrogant and obtuse. If you truly appreciated XDA for what it was then that wouldn't have been there.
You are most definitely right that everyone is entitled to their opinions but if your opinion is that XDA is a 90's style development community then by all means, go elsewhere.
Thats just MY opinion

Has anyone tried this?

I know its so painfully obvious, but has anyone actually tried to contact samsung to get the development resources we need? Drivers and the such.
Beyond a doubt they left this phone to sink a long time ago, but the sidekick community is die-hard and all we want is the phone we thought we were getting. And we can have that phone, with no added work by Sasung - we have the devs and the will! We only need the way.
It would not be too difficult to draft a polite but demanding business letter/ petition and have all of us send it in. Shoot, if we got the story to the XDA mods we could probably get support site-wide for "dedicated sidekick/android enthusiasts want freedom for their phone - device never allowed upgrade from froyo". You guys might see this as stretching it, but a majority of people on XDA have samsung devices and would hate to see their own development halted by the company.
Strength in numbers. Not to mention, this kind of outcry would show samsung that the sidekick (keyboard devices) are still sought after and will be fought for. Somewhere in our petition should say the resources are just to hold us over until they release the next model which will NOT get treated like the red-headed stepchild the 4G did.
You'd be surprised what a small, vocal group can get done. If anyone has any background on this type of thing, say so. if nobody else steps up I will write it tuesday-Thursday and post it for any revisions, then we can each take a copy and send it. Even a simple facebook page or cheap website would add so much to this cause.
Sent from my SGH-T839 using xda app-developers app

Tsloble said:
I know its so painfully obvious, but has anyone actually tried to contact samsung to get the development resources we need? Drivers and the such.
Beyond a doubt they left this phone to sink a long time ago, but the sidekick community is die-hard and all we want is the phone we thought we were getting. And we can have that phone, with no added work by Sasung - we have the devs and the will! We only need the way.
It would not be too difficult to draft a polite but demanding business letter/ petition and have all of us send it in. Shoot, if we got the story to the XDA mods we could probably get support site-wide for "dedicated sidekick/android enthusiasts want freedom for their phone - device never allowed upgrade from froyo". You guys might see this as stretching it, but a majority of people on XDA have samsung devices and would hate to see their own development halted by the company.
Strength in numbers. Not to mention, this kind of outcry would show samsung that the sidekick (keyboard devices) are still sought after and will be fought for. Somewhere in our petition should say the resources are just to hold us over until they release the next model which will NOT get treated like the red-headed stepchild the 4G did.
You'd be surprised what a small, vocal group can get done. If anyone has any background on this type of thing, say so. if nobody else steps up I will write it tuesday-Thursday and post it for any revisions, then we can each take a copy and send it. Even a simple facebook page or cheap website would add so much to this cause.
Sent from my SGH-T839 using xda app-developers app
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I'm for it. I think it's a great idea to sign a petition requesting to Samsung at least a test build of Gingerbread. :good:

Agreed broda's we have to do this.:thumbup:
Sent from my SGH-T839 using xda app-developers app

I like the idea! I'm not a dev so I wouldn't be able to write the letter, but I can help edit.

I will write up a draft tomorrow after my studies, leaving the appropriate "technical" spots easily editable so that we can get exactly what we need from Samsung per the Devs instruction.
Thank you guys for your support on this, I truly believe good can come of this!
Maybe we can direct them to our sidekick wishlist thread while we're at it ;D
Sent from my SGH-T839 using xda app-developers app

I would definitely help to, but English is not my main language. So i would try to help with the petition!

If samsung releases the driver source code I can make a stable CM6 and a BETA CM7 for this community. Butttttttt.....I don't see it happening.

Im up for it, count me in. Sure never doubt the power and determination of an online community especially an open source one like xda

I doubt anything would happen for sk4g. We did similar things in the sgs4g community. Samsung is more like honey badger...

Of course we should try, but i'm not sure that Samsung will help us after 2 years of doing nothing....

I'll post it up within the half hour - this week was busier than expected. And unless Samsung completely destroyed everything relating to our device, it should be as simple as a developers release right?
Sent from my SGH-T839 using xda app-developers app

Tsloble said:
I'll post it up within the half hour - this week was busier than expected. And unless Samsung completely destroyed everything relating to our device, it should be as simple as a developers release right?
Sent from my SGH-T839 using xda app-developers app
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Yup

Here is draft one. Feel free to download the doc and make adjustments. Let's just be sure that the majority of our community agree on the final product and then we can take action. I will be sending out the story to Gizmodo/Engadget and stuff too... If this isn't an underdog tech story I don't know what is. You guys might think that's over the top, but it's just not right for a company to abandon their customer and it is never too late to make amends.
To Whom It May Concern:
This is a formal petition regarding the Samsung SGH-T839 device (T-Mobile Sidekick 4G).
We, the loyal consumers (and other), request through this petition that you kindly release development information & resources regarding the SGH-T839. This request is being made due to the absolute lack of support and development for this device since its launch April 20th, 2011. Please note that this device shipped with Android Operating System (Android from this point) Version 2.2 “Froyo” which was released May 20th, 2010. This is despite the fact that the SGH-T839 launch date was over four months after the release of Android Version 2.3 “Gingerbread” (released December 6th, 2010).
Not only was the device shipped with an outdated operating system, but a Kies / Over the Air Update to Gingerbread was never released. This came as a shock to all loyal consumers of the SGH-T839 as Samsung continued to update other devices to the new Android version and release new devices with Gingerbread already installed. In addition to the lack of support, the SGH-T839 had many bugs such as a keystroke logger within the system, the keyboard software missed keystrokes, and frequent Force-Close of applications.
These problems, amongst others, have been thoroughly logged by the XDA Developers Community (www.xda-developers.com). Amazingly, there is a large community of SGH-T839 users that are dedicated to the device and have managed to correct many of the software-related defects that were shipped with the device. This petition requests that Samsung release the following development items to the XDA Development Community, that the loyal consumer of their product may be able to enjoy everything that the SGH-T839 is capable of:
We urge you not to overlook this petition, as it is being circulated amongst several online communities that are dedicated to the Android Open Source Project for support. The influence of these communities over Samsung’s broader handheld-device customer base runs very deep; the XDA Developers Community alone has over 4.7 million registered users. We, the loyal consumer (and other), anticipate a prompt response to this matter. We also look forward to increased involvement from Samsung pertaining to the Android Open Source Project and hopefully a future device with similar form-factor of the SGH-T839.
Sincerely,
Edit 2: Was just thinking maybe "Release source to XDA community should be create developers release pack or something?

Tsloble said:
Here is draft one. Feel free to download the doc and make adjustments. Let's just be sure that the majority of our community agree on the final product and then we can take action. I will be sending out the story to Gizmodo/Engadget and stuff too... If this isn't an underdog tech story I don't know what is. You guys might think that's over the top, but it's just not right for a company to abandon their customer and it is never too late to make amends.
To Whom It May Concern:
This is a formal petition regarding the Samsung SGH-T839 device (T-Mobile Sidekick 4G).
We, the loyal consumers (and other), request through this petition that you kindly release development information & resources regarding the SGH-T839. This request is being made due to the absolute lack of support and development for this device since its launch April 20th, 2011. Please note that this device shipped with Android Operating System (Android from this point) Version 2.2 “Froyo” which was released May 20th, 2010. This is despite the fact that the SGH-T839 launch date was over four months after the release of Android Version 2.3 “Gingerbread” (released December 6th, 2010).
Not only was the device shipped with an outdated operating system, but a Kies / Over the Air Update to Gingerbread was never released. This came as a shock to all loyal consumers of the SGH-T839 as Samsung continued to update other devices to the new Android version and release new devices with Gingerbread already installed. In addition to the lack of support, the SGH-T839 had many bugs such as a keystroke logger within the system, the keyboard software missed keystrokes, and frequent Force-Close of applications.
These problems, amongst others, have been thoroughly logged by the XDA Developers Community (www.xda-developers.com). Amazingly, there is a large community of SGH-T839 users that are dedicated to the device and have managed to correct many of the software-related defects that were shipped with the device. This petition requests that Samsung release the following development items to the XDA Development Community, that the loyal consumer of their product may be able to enjoy everything that the SGH-T839 is capable of:
We urge you not to overlook this petition, as it is being circulated amongst several online communities that are dedicated to the Android Open Source Project for support. The influence of these communities over Samsung’s broader handheld-device customer base runs very deep; the XDA Developers Community alone has over 4.7 million registered users. We, the loyal consumer (and other), anticipate a prompt response to this matter. We also look forward to increased involvement from Samsung pertaining to the Android Open Source Project and hopefully a future device with similar form-factor of the SGH-T839.
Sincerely,
Edit 2: Was just thinking maybe "Release source to XDA community should be create developers release pack or something?
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I think we should ask for the release source for devoleping

I do not believe any of the official ROMs had the keystroke print statements enabled... someone can correct me if I'm wrong.
I'm not sure if I understand what you are asking Samsung for. Any partially complete work toward GB they might have laying around? Not to curse our chances, but I think they are not likely to release source for proprietary drivers.
Be very clear about what you're asking for. They might seriously consider one such request, if it is well reasoned, and within their power to grant.

One other thing to consider is sending this petition to T-Mobile as well. They can exert considerably more pressure on Samsung.

I left the "specific request" blank. It goes at the end of the 2nd to last paragraph after the colon. That's why it looks like I didn't ask for anything. If someone with the knowledge wants to give that list, it can be added and the other revisions can be made.
Sent from my SGH-T839 using xda app-developers app

Good first draft. Keep in mind your audience, though. We're unlikely to get Samsung to help us by insulting them. For example, "due to the absolute lack of support and development for this device" should be replaced with a different reason. You attract more flies with honey than vinegar. Maybe something about how the device has great potential, especially with the physical keyboard, but has been limited by its operating system. Speaking of keyboards, didn't pretty much all or most ROMs at the time come with the so-called key-logger? Also, keep in mind that Samsung and T-Mobile have no interest in supporting the Sidekick because they don't make any more money off it. They make money by getting people to upgrade to new phones. So whatever we ask them has to be easy for them, like just releasing to developers whatever they have lying around that isn't proprietary. Lastly, it's a bit misleading to say there are X million XDA members. The vast majority of them couldn't care less about the SK; I'm sure the SK community is rather small. Maybe highlight this fact: there are a few of us developers who love the SK as a development machine but our hands are tied because we don't have the code, etc. etc.

marathonjon said:
Good first draft. Keep in mind your audience, though. We're unlikely to get Samsung to help us by insulting them. For example, "due to the absolute lack of support and development for this device" should be replaced with a different reason. You attract more flies with honey than vinegar. Maybe something about how the device has great potential, especially with the physical keyboard, but has been limited by its operating system. Speaking of keyboards, didn't pretty much all or most ROMs at the time come with the so-called key-logger? Also, keep in mind that Samsung and T-Mobile have no interest in supporting the Sidekick because they don't make any more money off it. They make money by getting people to upgrade to new phones. So whatever we ask them has to be easy for them, like just releasing to developers whatever they have lying around that isn't proprietary. Lastly, it's a bit misleading to say there are X million XDA members. The vast majority of them couldn't care less about the SK; I'm sure the SK community is rather small. Maybe highlight this fact: there are a few of us developers who love the SK as a development machine but our hands are tied because we don't have the code, etc. etc.
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Totally agree with this.
T-Mobile knows that they have everything because of loyal customers, not to mention how many of the hundreds of thousands of people who owned Sidekicks. Samsung understands this which is obviously why they decided to pick up the device two years ago.
Play this to our advantage. Tug on their heartstrings, so to speak.

Yeah, I agree. Haha I guess this letter wasn't the place to let my frustrations out ;P
Sent from my SGH-T839 using xda app-developers app

appeal: let's make CM11 stable!

Hello,
I made that account in order write about some things that I’m annoyed of or which I find very alarming. I’m sure there are some other people in here, who feel the same. I think it’s time to change something about it. I know some of you might be not interested in that and many people just want to get CM12 as fast as possible. This people should maybe not take part of this. To each man his own. I do understand that but this is about changing CM11 to a REAL “Daily Driver”, where everything works right and stable (at least the device-independent things).
This is about the following:
For many mobile phones like the well known Samsung Galaxy Models will be a Kitkat for real the last “halfway functioning” system. Also there has been put a lot of work into CM11, which a have a lot of respect for. Newly Cyanogenmod got a company and as such this Custom Rom is totally different than others – which do their work completely non-paid and voluntary e.g. Omnirom. As a company you have, except of making a lot of money, some responsibilities. You have to place a working product on the marked and I appeal here and today for calling in this responsibility or rather to introduce CM to move form there previous “Kindergarden” to a CM11 which is made perfect. After all Cyanogenmod as a company benefits of us using CM11 (the Community/Open source Project) on your mobile phones. We users are the best Beta-Testers and if CM just doesn’t fix bugs it is not better than Samsung.
Everyday we are complaining about producers like Samsung, because they e.g. do not bring out a 4.4 for the S3. But they at least perform their obligations somehow and continue improving and fixing 4.3. Anyway it (mostly) gets a real functioning product. CM should be interested in satisfying us with this/their product (CM11/s; Oneplus one). Even if we don’t actually have Oneplus one now we are ALL potential, future costumers! And nearby the most buy a Oneplus one BECAUSE they feel confident with CM and their Android Rom! Unfortunately in reality CM11 is far away from real stability and I don’t mean features, which are hardwarenear and sources for drivers like the S3 camera are needed, but completely normal features in the system.
If you only use a few Apps a few times then the current CM11 will work for you and it is usable, but as soon as you need something which is rarely used or which is more complicated you will find bugs. Although, this could be different.
I think it’s shocking that I often read when people are swearing “why should we want Android 5.0 if not even Android 4.4 is working stable!” (Look at the people from N7000, who have not even a M-Release from CM11). But no one is doing anything against it. CM should know that there are people who want stability! Please note that I’m talking about device-independent features. Especially because CM11 current is the BASIS for the CM11S, which is the system for Oneplus one! But what does the community see? The “CM12 roadmap” in which they are talking about: “freezing” CM11 and focusing on CM12. No, that can’t be. Every lifeblood-Custom-Rom maybe could get away with that (even Omni tries to go on with 4.4 for older devices as a “long-term-project”), but no new, real organization. Some may argument and say that with CM10.2 it has been the same, that with the first Nightlys or in general at the beginning of CM11 the final has been there after a very short time, but CM 10.2 as we all know, from past developers who left CM and now work for Omnirom, never had gone through as a stable. They just wanted it to seem like that in order to get sponsors and to show with the statistics, which CM introduced at that time, how many people already use CM. And the i9300 practically is the most used device in that case!
I have posted this post on November the 22nd 2014(as abruptly the Nightlys from CM11 stood still) in a German Android Forum. On the 24th of November 2014 all the Nightlys suddenly worked again, but if you look at the most Changes you could think that CM had not interest in creating a stable OS or a really stable CM and they are only trying to make it seem like they would still work on that. (Changes like the design template file or adjusting readmes).
Nevertheless there are still many bugs and some elementary features are missing! That can’t be. The worst is, that CM doesn’t get things straight for the community. I can understand if the creators don’t want to have any pressure because many people are asking for appointments but at least they should get the things straight concerning if and how long CM11 should be supported! ESPECIALLY if CM bet on that with their Oneplus One!
I have started to work on this on November the 22nd 2014 and reported about 40 bugs and maybe needed but simply to integrate features in the CM Bugtracker JIRA. I commit that I have never done this before. I do have enough other things to do and I always thought the creators would take care of that or anyone else would report the problem. But apparently this won’t happen. In order to prohibit a fiasco like CM10.2, should we all take care of it NOW!
I will post a list of bugs and eventually some useful and first of all realisable features in the course of this theme. Some of them I already have reported –but the most of them have been closed again. One of them was a appeal to CM and it said that they should get CM11 ready and stable – this Bug of course has been closed immediately and without actual statement.
I want to ask you to vote for all these things. If you have bugs yourself and never have been reported such please make an account on JIRA, it is easy and doesn’t take much time. Even if it’s just in order to vote for my bugs and features later. It would be nice to spread this and the text in JIRA, in other Android / CM-Forums and in social networks in order to have a real group or better sent a link or the post itself to some devs of cyanogenmod so that they are knowing about the problem and can take action on this.
Please don’t see this as agitation or something like that. I have great respect to the creators and their achievements! But CM now is a company and they geared to their (potential) customers. Without us making noise CM will concentrate on CM12 and we all have (again), a half-finished “gerfrickel”-Sytem. Also think that all the improvements in CM will get back to the Custom Roms.
Willingly you can send me your bugs, ideas or suggestions per PM here but better post it here or write it down to the JIRA bugtrakcer. The more, the better!
For so many Smartphones the CM11 is the last thing which they will be seeing more or less stable without an unbelievable reduced battery power. If we don’t do something now, the game will be replayed with CM12. And don’t hope that it will be different there. A really STABLE Custom Rom – that is missing somehow. That’s at least what I think and if read in the forums now, there are many others who think the same…
I hope on active cooperation, feedbacks and opinions on that and ask for not deleting this thread but eventually moving it to the right place (maybe a seperate section about android in general?) and make it sticky for all people to see. I hope we can find some way here to CM changing his mind about working on their custom rom and supporting CM11 for some time until it's a really stable product (maybe until first or second “stable” M-release of CM12 is out). If you want a stable CM11, please write it down here!:good::victory:
BTW: I am from Germany, sorry for my maybe bad English.
Chris

Stability depends on device. CM11 is superbly stable on a Nexus 4 or 5, but could be extremely buggy on some random cheap Chinese phone bought from aliexpress because lots of people use and develop for Nexuses, but only a handful of people will be working on that Chinese one. There are also often hardware issues.

Thanks for your reply, i totally agree with you but if you have rightly read my topic you can read that I dont write about device specific features. If I can reproduce a handfull bugs everytime, on every CM11 rom, than that are real bugs on which CM should take care. I will also show some here but I need time to tanslate it here and to write it.
I also totally agree if a device have no maintainer it cant be tested and made fully working - but the problem most of the time is that there are A LOT of people who make their own kernels, own custom roms on base of CM11 and they COULD be maintainer of the device but dont want it or cant do it because of CM itself. If you look how CM is treating the people and not comunicate with them you will understand why there is a lack of maintainer and so many people which COULD be a maintainer because of the knowledge. But that is a other topic. CM need to change his way to talk with the community. If there are bugs, which are easy to reproduce and they will be reported to bugtracker and CM is closing it because the log is not attached, because the reporter CANT BRINGT IT, BUT the bug can be EASILY reproduced WITHOUT A LOG, than it is CMs fault. People want to help and they (CM) close the bugreports. It should be in their interest to test every bugreport to MAYBE find a potential bug. Also look at the bugtracker, there are issues which were reported for years and CM dont care about it. Look for the lack of using the calendar without a google account for example. On the other hand side: They add features which nobody wanted to have and mostly the people dont use. where is ther sense here?

Personally, I quit using any cm or cm based ROMs on my nexus because it seemed to lack speed and stability compared to stock or aosp based ROMs.
I had better luck with early custom lollipop ROMs than with cm. Right now I'm using slimkat until black themed lollipop ROMs are stable and bug free.
So basically, I agree that cm should be more stable. But I don't really care cause there are lots of good options out there instead of cm.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Free mobile app

Ow mannnnn .. Thank you so much !!! you are pro !!!

Well first thing is that bugs happen when you use open source drivers and software. This is because it is not coded just for a single device like the OEM drivers and software is.
Second CM is not required to do anything. That includes fixing bugs that they don't care about.
Next. And to be flatly honest they have no reason to talk to the community. Can't blame them as most have nothing more productive to say then "duh this is busted" why talk to those people when you can talk to people that can offer advise and maybe help salve an issue. Nor are they required to post any update at all.
Devs have the right to post a build in the OP and never post support, leaving all support up to the user's.
It doesn't matter if you can produce the error. They have their rules about posting bug reports. If you don't follow them and it gets closed without it even being looked at well then that's your fault.
If you want stable then stay stock. Or learn to fix it yourself. There is no obligation for anyone to even touch aosp based code. Even Google has most stopped updating those apps and files.
Now as for you saying device independent issues. The issue here is that one device could be rebooting every ten min but other devices don't do it.
The only device as a company they need to worry about is the one that sells with their roms. All others are hobby projects and treated as such.

zelendel said:
Well first thing is that bugs happen when you use open source drivers and software. This is because it is not coded just for a single device like the OEM drivers and software is. .
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Firstly thanks for your feedback
I dont understand what you want to say. If bugs happen and when is not the content of the topic. I am using linux on my workstation and server itself, everyday. (Linus Torvalds is also talking to the people). I know that bugs can happen and open source drivers and software can have bugs. I do not blame people for this. I do respect their work! I blame people for activly ignoring bugs which are easy to fix (atleast for this people) and activly ignoring bugs in addition to don't communicate why they don't care about this bugs which they could easily fix. This is a human fault. I also have written in my text above that I DO NOT MEAN DEVICE SPECIFIC BUGS. So I don't really understand whats your point here, sorry.
zelendel said:
Second CM is not required to do anything. That includes fixing bugs that they don't care about.
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Yes, in theory they dont have to do anything. But we are all human. We have a moral commitment. Also I think every group who wants to make their custom rom succesfull, want to make the users happy. If not so, why CM is releasing this to the community? Is it forbidden to say my and many peoples opinion here? If I follow your logic of arguing then we all were not allowed to blame samsung for their bad software and bad support, right? Or specially if something is for free we don't have the right to critisize things? Why? If you create something, you have to count on the fact that people will complain about things. If the people complain with arguments and everyone respect each other that is totally ok in my opinion. If that is too hard for the dev than he should maybe not release his work. So our world is working. Why you argue for a group which doesn't speak to you or here forself? I don't know if you would care about if you were one of those people who wait for years that a bug or improvement is realized which is important for you.
zelendel said:
Next. And to be flatly honest they have no reason to talk to the community. Can't blame them as most have nothing more productive to say then "duh this is busted" why talk to those people when you can talk to people that can offer advise and maybe help salve an issue. Nor are they required to post any update at all.
Devs have the right to post a build in the OP and never post support, leaving all support up to the user's.
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if a human being thinks like this, he should really start to think about himself. It is a very arogant attitude against other people. If a person thinks "I have no reason to talk to you", then I would think this person is not really a nice and good human. People like you describe, they think that they are better than all other and that is not a good attitude. I totaly agree that it is not helpfull if someone says: "duh this is busted", but I and some other people report bugs, want to help, ALSO if they don't have the ability to develvop something on their own. But the point is the following: The people who are only complaining and say: "duh this is busted" are the people for who CM is making a software. They (CM) should care about them. They are mostly the people who BUY their Oneplus one. Why I don't talk to CM itself? You have written it here exactly: They "have no reason to talk to the community". So I am talking to the people here, the commnunity and looking for all this people who don't do anything because they think they are alone, can't do anything. The goal is to give the people of CM a reason to talk to the commnunity. This is a attempt to change their mind about their style of communication. and make CM11 fully stable.
zelendel said:
It doesn't matter if you can produce the error. They have their rules about posting bug reports. If you don't follow them and it gets closed without it even being looked at well then that's your fault.
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How easy is live, what? If so, then they should close the bugtracker. I was thinking the bugtracker is for the community to HELP CM finding bugs so that THEY can make the product better. This is an opensource project. They make money with the code at the end in form of "CM11S", which is CM11 + closed source apps. And I also understand that they want to make money with their work now. If an opensource project is making benefit in form of money without the need of beta testers because the community finds the bugs they should be HAPPY. But they do ignore it, they think they are above all. You say they: "dont have to talk to the community". Look for omnirom, look for other projects, they are gracefull if someone find a bug, can reporduce it. The devs can fix it. It makes the software better and better. Samsung has to pay people for this. I totally understand if there is a bug which is to repoduce, the dev test for it, can't find it and order the log in addition from the bugreporer. Thats a real reason. But they (CM) dont read this bug. They dont care. Do you want to say that's a good attitude to the users and the community? I don't think so. We can talk with each other.
zelendel said:
If you want stable then stay stock. Or learn to fix it yourself. There is no obligation for anyone to even touch aosp based code. Even Google has most stopped updating those apps and files.
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Sorry, but thats not a real argument. Then we all would be on stock, no one should be allowed to say: "this could be better." That would be a bad world. It is not wrong to expect a stable product. Let it be opensource or propritary. In addition: Not everyone can code something and if so, not everyone has the time to do so. This people have created the maybe most famous custom rom. They SHOULD talk to the people who are using their software, who are all potential customers of their PRODUCT, the oneplus one. The product which makes USE of CM11. So if I am thinking about to buy it, I think about all blame samsung and I think about that CM11 is ignoring user bugreports AND they "don't need to talk to the people". Not a good image, or do your think so? Samsung is not giving 4.4 to the i9300 for example, BUT they make 4.3 better and they make it STABLE and FULL. I don't like samsung for their software and other things, but it is working. But people like CM are blaming them for their support, so me and other people, we have the right to blame CM for THEIR support, or not? Also think about freedom of speech.
What google does is a other thing. Google is also making enough crap and I have also my optionion about it. I also dont install google apps for myself. But google and CM are a different story and thats not the topic of this thread. Also I don't think that it is really nice to say to the people: "Eat what we give you and shut up otherwise you don't have anything.". But you are saying this between the words.
zelendel said:
Now as for you saying device independent issues. The issue here is that one device could be rebooting every ten min but other devices don't do it.
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I dont understand what is the point here? I have clearly written: "Device independend". I didn't writte about random reboots. I totally agree with you that this are a other sort of problem. But if you tap on a "private number" on dialer/phone statistics and will get a FC, and that on M12 and also on the newest nightly, also on 5 different devices, you report that and the mod of the bugtracker dont care about it and simply lock down the bugreport and the dev team totally IGNORE the problem because no log was added (because maybe the reporter dont have a official supported device because they also close the bugreport if this is not?), but they only had to test what the reporter described, then someone can clearly say two things: First thing is that the bug is easily to reproduce and it is device indepently. And second thing is that the CM team or at least the mod of the bugtracker really DONT CARE about the bug existence if he is simply closing down the bug without looking for it or test to repoduce it and THEN, if it is NOT easily to reproduce, order a log from the bugreporter. We are people, we can talk to each other. There is NO NEED to simply close things down, don't community and at the end write down: "This is CM11 final, look at our bugtracker: there are NO BUGS!". Yes, if you don't care about the bugs people report then yes - it is bugfree. Nice way of make something stable. Like chainfire wrote about CM10.2 to the time he left CM Team.
zelendel said:
The only device as a company they need to worry about is the one that sells with their roms. All others are hobby projects and treated as such.
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I agree with you, but have I written something other? I have written nearly the same. CM11 is the basis of CM11S, which is THE SYSTEM THEY SELL on Oneplus one, their PRODUCT.
But in theory if someone, like the creator of "nameless rom". make HW composer working for the i9300 or Teamasek make a camera restart workaround for it and they (CM) DONT CARE about it for example, they know it, people report it. They ignore it. Then something is really wrong here. People like creator of "nameless rom" or Temasek are creating their own custom rom on basis of CM11. They (CM) could easily say: „we have no time, sorry.“ Or: "it is not stable right now, we will wait for it." or simply: „No, we can't do it because....“ Then people totally UNDERSTAND it. But they only say like you said: "We have not to talk to you." nice, nor? Everyone is talking to the people, why they think they don't need that?
And to make it clear here: I am dont fighting against CM, I really like their art of making a rom. I like their software, I want to have and sell my customers a oneplus one if it is out to the global market. I want to make CM better. I dont say look at XXX rom, they make all right, then I could go to a other rom like someone in the thread posted before. I am like this person, but I want to change something and want to help CM so that people dont all leave CM or make their own custom rom. If we would all help us togehter, every device of CM would have a maintainer. The world would be right and nice. But CM makes it to difficult to help. But why? They win, they loose nothing. Let's make them change their mind so that things will get better.
By the way: Oneplus is looking for a other rom for their oneplus one. Also there are articles about: "the flaggschiff killer kills themself". They have problems. CM11/S is not really stable on the oneplus one. Oppo is looking for a other software, CM is working on CM12, it won't make the things better. But CM is building on the oneplus two. It will make it worse. Why all the way begin new and dont make things fully stable? So in theory it would be right to further work on CM11 until it is really stable and also bring the oneplus one on the global market for real and support it some years really. Otherwise they have newest android but it is less stable than software of samsung. If you or anyone else think I am wrong than write that to CM, they can easily write down the facts here in this topic if they care about their users and the most of their further customers. So back to the topic. How can we make things on CM11 better and change CMs mind? chris

XXchrisXX said:
Firstly thanks for your feedback
I dont understand what you want to say. If bugs happen and when is not the content of the topic. I am using linux on my workstation and server itself, everyday. (Linus Torvalds is also talking to the people). I know that bugs can happen and open source drivers and software can have bugs. I do not blame people for this. I do respect their work! I blame people for activly ignoring bugs which are easy to fix (atleast for this people) and activly ignoring bugs in addition to don't communicate why they don't care about this bugs which they could easily fix. This is a human fault. I also have written in my text above that I DO NOT MEAN DEVICE SPECIFIC BUGS. So I don't really understand whats your point here, sorry.
Think its so easy then try it your self. You seem to think anything about this is easy. Until you try to do it yourself you have no room to talk about it being easy.
Yes, in theory they dont have to do anything. But we are all human. We have a moral commitment. Also I think every group who wants to make their custom rom succesfull, want to make the users happy. If not so, why CM is releasing this to the community? Is it forbidden to say my and many peoples opinion here? If I follow your logic of arguing then we all were not allowed to blame samsung for their bad software and bad support, right? Or specially if something is for free we don't have the right to critisize things? Why? If you create something, you have to count on the fact that people will complain about things. If the people complain with arguments and everyone respect each other that is totally ok in my opinion. If that is too hard for the dev than he should maybe not release his work. So our world is working. Why you argue for a group which doesn't speak to you or here forself? I don't know if you would care about if you were one of those people who wait for years that a bug or improvement is realized which is important for you.
You have the right to blame them if you want but then they also have the right not to care. There are many bugs that I have had on AOSP for years. They have not been fixed and I cant fix them so guess what, I dont complain.
if a human being thinks like this, he should really start to think about himself. It is a very arogant attitude against other people. If a person thinks "I have no reason to talk to you", then I would think this person is not really a nice and good human. People like you describe, they think that they are better than all other and that is not a good attitude. I totaly agree that it is not helpfull if someone says: "duh this is busted", but I and some other people report bugs, want to help, ALSO if they don't have the ability to develvop something on their own. But the point is the following: The people who are only complaining and say: "duh this is busted" are the people for who CM is making a software. They (CM) should care about them. They are mostly the people who BUY their Oneplus one. Why I don't talk to CM itself? You have written it here exactly: They "have no reason to talk to the community". So I am talking to the people here, the commnunity and looking for all this people who don't do anything because they think they are alone, can't do anything. The goal is to give the people of CM a reason to talk to the commnunity. This is a attempt to change their mind about their style of communication. and make CM11 fully stable.
A nice and good human? Really?!?! What world do you live in. Alot of the best Devs here are antisocial people. They dont like other people let alone people cant follow simple instructions.
Look People did it themselves. CM used to be active in the community but then people kept doing just what you have stated. Not posting proper bug reports with logs that are needed. (if the dev says post a log with the bug report, this is not an option). The one plus one is a the joke of the Dev world. Most devs already sold theirs and will not go back.
How easy is live, what? If so, then they should close the bugtracker. I was thinking the bugtracker is for the community to HELP CM finding bugs so that THEY can make the product better. This is an opensource project. They make money with the code at the end in form of "CM11S", which is CM11 + closed source apps. And I also understand that they want to make money with their work now. If an opensource project is making benefit in form of money without the need of beta testers because the community finds the bugs they should be HAPPY. But they do ignore it, they think they are above all. You say they: "dont have to talk to the community". Look for omnirom, look for other projects, they are gracefull if someone find a bug, can reporduce it. The devs can fix it. It makes the software better and better. Samsung has to pay people for this. I totally understand if there is a bug which is to repoduce, the dev test for it, can't find it and order the log in addition from the bugreporer. Thats a real reason. But they (CM) dont read this bug. They dont care. Do you want to say that's a good attitude to the users and the community? I don't think so. We can talk with each other.
Yes it is. As long as people follow the proper bug reporting steps. Yeah and if you report some bugs to many devs without the proper logs they will ignore you as well. Many devs are moving over to the bug tracker just like CM and will require the same logs. This is troubleshooting 101. If you cant even get a log then you should rethink using custom roms.
Sorry, but thats not a real argument. Then we all would be on stock, no one should be allowed to say: "this could be better." That would be a bad world. It is not wrong to expect a stable product. Let it be opensource or propritary. In addition: Not everyone can code something and if so, not everyone has the time to do so. This people have created the maybe most famous custom rom. They SHOULD talk to the people who are using their software, who are all potential customers of their PRODUCT, the oneplus one. The product which makes USE of CM11. So if I am thinking about to buy it, I think about all blame samsung and I think about that CM11 is ignoring user bugreports AND they "don't need to talk to the people". Not a good image, or do your think so? Samsung is not giving 4.4 to the i9300 for example, BUT they make 4.3 better and they make it STABLE and FULL. I don't like samsung for their software and other things, but it is working. But people like CM are blaming them for their support, so me and other people, we have the right to blame CM for THEIR support, or not? Also think about freedom of speech.
Ill be honest and this is the thought with alot of Devs. Most normal users SHOULD stay on stock. Saying Samsung is stable is too funny. Most Devs have left those devices all together as well. Once again you dont post the proper and requested logs with the bug reprot expect to be ignored. As for freedom of speech Refer to the link below. Your on a private site. The right doenst apply.
What google does is a other thing. Google is also making enough crap and I have also my optionion about it. I also dont install google apps for myself. But google and CM are a different story and thats not the topic of this thread. Also I don't think that it is really nice to say to the people: "Eat what we give you and shut up otherwise you don't have anything.". But you are saying this between the words.
If your not part of the solution then your part of the problem. And that is with proper bug reports and logs.
I dont understand what is the point here? I have clearly written: "Device independend". I didn't writte about random reboots. I totally agree with you that this are a other sort of problem. But if you tap on a "private number" on dialer/phone statistics and will get a FC, and that on M12 and also on the newest nightly, also on 5 different devices, you report that and the mod of the bugtracker dont care about it and simply lock down the bugreport and the dev team totally IGNORE the problem because no log was added (because maybe the reporter dont have a official supported device because they also close the bugreport if this is not?), but they only had to test what the reporter described, then someone can clearly say two things: First thing is that the bug is easily to reproduce and it is device indepently. And second thing is that the CM team or at least the mod of the bugtracker really DONT CARE about the bug existence if he is simply closing down the bug without looking for it or test to repoduce it and THEN, if it is NOT easily to reproduce, order a log from the bugreporter. We are people, we can talk to each other. There is NO NEED to simply close things down, don't community and at the end write down: "This is CM11 final, look at our bugtracker: there are NO BUGS!". Yes, if you don't care about the bugs people report then yes - it is bugfree. Nice way of make something stable. Like chainfire wrote about CM10.2 to the time he left CM Team.
If the device is not supported then they shouldnt be posting a report at all. Do you have any idea how long it would take to "test" each bug report? The log is much faster and more useful. To many people are installing stupid stuff like xposed that randomly causes code crashs. This is where the logs will show this. If it is bug free on their devices then they can call it bug free. In the end it is all how it runs on their devices.
I agree with you, but have I written something other? I have written nearly the same. CM11 is the basis of CM11S, which is THE SYSTEM THEY SELL on Oneplus one, their PRODUCT.
But in theory if someone, like the creator of "nameless rom". make HW composer working for the i9300 or Teamasek make a camera restart workaround for it and they (CM) DONT CARE about it for example, they know it, people report it. They ignore it. Then something is really wrong here. People like creator of "nameless rom" or Temasek are creating their own custom rom on basis of CM11. They (CM) could easily say: „we have no time, sorry.“ Or: "it is not stable right now, we will wait for it." or simply: „No, we can't do it because....“ Then people totally UNDERSTAND it. But they only say like you said: "We have not to talk to you." nice, nor? Everyone is talking to the people, why they think they don't need that?
If they are basing their rom off of CM then they accept it. People did it themselves. As already stated. You really must be new to this.
And to make it clear here: I am dont fighting against CM, I really like their art of making a rom. I like their software, I want to have and sell my customers a oneplus one if it is out to the global market. I want to make CM better. I dont say look at XXX rom, they make all right, then I could go to a other rom like someone in the thread posted before. I am like this person, but I want to change something and want to help CM so that people dont all leave CM or make their own custom rom. If we would all help us togehter, every device of CM would have a maintainer. The world would be right and nice. But CM makes it to difficult to help. But why? They win, they loose nothing. Let's make them change their mind so that things will get better.
To be honest alot of people couldnt careless about CM. Any real team uses aosp as a base and not CM. This is due to CM changing the base AOSP code to fit what they think android should be. To me it sounds like you have a device that was dropped by the team and are now mad about it.
By the way: Oneplus is looking for a other rom for their oneplus one. Also there are articles about: "the flaggschiff killer kills themself". They have problems. CM11/S is not really stable on the oneplus one. Oppo is looking for a other software, CM is working on CM12, it won't make the things better. But CM is building on the oneplus two. It will make it worse. Why all the way begin new and dont make things fully stable? So in theory it would be right to further work on CM11 until it is really stable and also bring the oneplus one on the global market for real and support it some years really. Otherwise they have newest android but it is less stable than software of samsung. If you or anyone else think I am wrong than write that to CM, they can easily write down the facts here in this topic if they care about their users and the most of their further customers. So back to the topic. How can we make things on CM11 better and change CMs mind? chris
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Once again CM has not posted here in years. AOSP will never be completely stable. Deal with it. and a news flash the oneplusone 2 will not have CM. They have already signed a contract exclusive in some places with another company.
Now to end this. Here is a link. Have a good read.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=16682226&postcount=2441

Ok so I've read the cluster that is your post @XXchrisXX and I have to say a few things
First off, I'm probably the last person you would ever see saying anything remotely nice about CM but what's right is right....
1. There is no moral commitment or obligation or ANYTHING that CM (the open source side of things) has to follow. You are getting a FREE product. In exchange your feedback may or may not be useful to the developers and device maintainers. You signed no contract. You didn't agree to anything with CyanogenMod or any of it's developers or maintainers. XDA-Developers is and always has been a AT-YOUR-OWN-RISK type of site.
As stated above, you can stick with the stock ROM from the OEM if you want stability and some kind of warranty.
2. There are two different sides of CM. There is the open source side which is what you're griping about and then there's the company, CM Inc.
One is run by volunteers and hundreds of contributors (Open Source side) and the other one is run by employees who are under contract (CM Inc). Don't confuse the two and think that you can hold the open source side to the same things you hold the company to.
Do many employees from CM Inc. contribute to the Open Source side? Yes, but that is a hobby. You want a warranty and someone to yell at for not fixing bugs? Go buy a One Plus One and get you a warranty, simple as that!
3. Who are you to tell them (the Open Source side of CM) what they can and can't do? You should be lucky that your device is even supported by CM or any AOSP based custom ROM.
You talk about Samsung and other OEMs but what you fail to realize is that most OEMs give you a one and done. They give you kitkat and that's it.........they TOO move on to bigger and better things.
Don't be foolish here and think that your device that's 3 years old is going to run KitKat like a champ. You say you "understand" about open source drivers but yet continue to argue your pointless cluster because you think that CM (the open source side) should behave like the company.
YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND! If you did, you would of never made this post and thank your lucky stars that your device even got on CM's radar for support.
Again, I know CM inc has done some messed up things in the past and are arguably run by a circus but what I hate more then them is ungrateful people like yourself.
Stop while you're ahead @XXchrisXX

What... the... fk...
Seriously... It's obvious you've violated XDA's "search before posting" rules.
Now, you've given enough information that you're obviously a haxxinos4 user. (You mention N7000 so probably a 4210, but I sort of recall seeing something indicating you might have a 4412 device...)
The only devices that actually have received benefits from Cyngn corporate are their "Cyanogen OS" devices. Oppo N1 and OnePlus One. Those are the two devices where Cyngn corporate staff have NDAs signed with the OEM and Qualcomm (and other suppliers) to fully support every piece of hardware within the device. Now, if your complaint is about those devices (which Cyngn HAS ****ed up too), you have a right to complain. But to be honest, you'll find little sympathy here since the Cyngn corporate guys and XDA don't really get along.
If you're a Haxxinos4 user, and actually PAID ATTENTION, you'd know that Samsung has continually bent the community over and ****ed them time and time again. (Especially in 2012, with the Superbrick fiasco and their broken promises at BABBQ 2012). You'd also know that basically everyone that USED to be a Haxxinos4 maintainer either retired from Android development or left CM after the Focal relicensing disaster. (And even after moving to Omni, Haxxinos4 is pretty much dead to most of us...)
So Mazda is right... While he (nor I) have any love for Cyngn (Kondick has blocked me on G+ for calling him out on various things back during the Focal relicensing fiasco - and I used to be the CM maintainer for multiple Haxxinos4 devices and the Oppo Find5)... Your post just reeks of "typical ungrateful user who can't even search to find the basic backstory of their device"...
Funny thing: Oppo N1 was Cyngn's first official device. Its predecessor, the Find 5, was entirely maintained by people who left CM to found Omni after the Focal relicensing fiasco. All of those people were former Haxxinos4 maintainers who were sick and tired of Samsung's bull**** already.

@XXchrisXX wow, you ungrateful twerp. If you don't like it, try another ROM. I'm anti CM after the things the company side did to the community, but they don't deserve this.
There are other ROMs that are more stable and have more features. Try those. Look at liquid smooth, omni, Dirty Unicorns... Way more options than just CM. But if you go to those Roms with this type of attitude expect zero support.

mazwoz said:
@XXchrisXX wow, you ungrateful twerp. If you don't like it, try another ROM. I'm anti CM after the things the company side did to the community, but they don't deserve this.
There are other ROMs that are more stable and have more features. Try those. Look at liquid smooth, omni, Dirty Unicorns... Way more options than just CM. But if you go to those Roms with this type of attitude expect zero support.
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Sorry to sound like a moron from left field, but what did CM do to the community? I've been out of the loop.

Saint Isaiah said:
Sorry to sound like a moron from left field, but what did CM do to the community? I've been out of the loop.
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They took the work of hundreds, forced people to relicense their work so that CM owned it, and then made millions on some contracts when they became a company. None of that money went to the people who spent years working on cm and helping them be what they are. It went to a few key people, and that's it. This people signed contracts with cm inc. Since then they have poached the lead developers from other ROMs to work with them, eliminating any possible competition.

mazwoz said:
They took the work of hundreds, forced people to relicense their work so that CM owned it, and then made millions on some contracts when they became a company. None of that money went to the people who spent years working on cm and helping them be what they are. It went to a few key people, and that's it. This people signed contracts with cm inc. Since then they have poached the lead developers from other ROMs to work with them, eliminating any possible competition.
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Wow that's super ****ty! I'm guessing this is related to the work they did with the OnePlus One phone? Either way, thanks for the info.

Saint Isaiah said:
Sorry to sound like a moron from left field, but what did CM do to the community? I've been out of the loop.
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Saint Isaiah said:
Wow that's super ****ty! I'm guessing this is related to the work they did with the OnePlus One phone? Either way, thanks for the info.
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Yes and no, they did all of this before the OnePlus. The first CM phone was the Oppo N1, that contact came about a few months after this went down. Omni ROM was founded because of this.

Saint Isaiah said:
Sorry to sound like a moron from left field, but what did CM do to the community? I've been out of the loop.
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Click to collapse
I can't dig up a direct link currently, but do a search for "Focal relicensing"
I think there's a link to Guillaume's post on the issue from the CM wikipedia page, but I'm not sure.

Entropy512 said:
I can't dig up a direct link currently, but do a search for "Focal relicensing"
I think there's a link to Guillaume's post on the issue from the CM wikipedia page, but I'm not sure.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2451752

To the OP @XXchrisXX or is it @Noteguy? I am so confused. One of you has 1 post, the other one of you has 4 (all of them in here). Would the real OP PLEASE STAND UP????
That being said, it's quite obvious that you have nothing to offer this community except for whinging - and if you were the only one doing that on XDA then I would say the community should take note and listen to what you have to say. BUT - seeing as you're just another whiny user I think we can all, CM included, just ignore you.

I can't say anything more than what @Entropy512 and @Mazda has already said. You must be very young, because you seriously remind me of my kids sometimes. Get stuff for free, but still complain because its not 100% to your liking. Not sure about Germany, but here we call that ungrateful. Long ago I was not satisfied with the lack of development for my aging device, instead of calling out developers that work, have a family and spend what little free time they have giving me free stuff, I learned to develop myself as to not bother them. Its not plug and play. Most do this for themselves and share. Ranting will only cause them not to share. If you want to kill support for your device faster than the hurdles that are already present with trying to piece together the little bits of open source code we can use, then your on the right track. If you want continued support then sometimes a simple Thank you works wonders. Nobody is making a living off of this (open source side at least). Donations are nice, but I know first hand that both @Mazda and I have on certain occasions returned donations to users. We don't do it because of the money, we do it because its fun. Don't take the fun out of it is all I'm saying. Be grateful that you aren't stuck on OE jellybean or less software. You owe/need the development community more than the developers do, the sooner you realize that, the better off you'll be.

"AOSiP experiment"

Ok so basically I want to get this off my chest because this really bothers me and I strongly believe not all points will be accepted or seen as I do. Maybe some of you have heard of the "AOSiP experiment". If not read it here: https://forum.xda-developers.com/redmi-note-5-pro/development/rom-aosp-pie-t3829052/page125 last post thread is locked.
So where do we start? I've been here around some time (even before I registered I lurked around). To the people saying xda is full of troll lately and back than it was way better. No it wasn't. Trolls and ret*rds have been around since xda started the only thing really changed is there are telegram groups for every thing (why tho?) where they troll and harass in real time. The only rule I found about xda is : the cheaper the phone the ****t*er the community. (this might be a point you don't agree on). I strive to improve the community because I am a part of it. I try to be helpful when needed point to already asked question and provide logs. And really I didn't mind fight the trolls.
But now I have to fight troll users AND troll "devs"? Troll "devs", lul never thought of using this phrase but boi here we are. I get it you are tired of all the pubg and give me SOT spammers. But why don't you just make a private telegram group for the devs? What hurts me of the most personally is that the "devs", to prove a point, said: "we gonna f*ck over our normal userbase who appreciate your works btw "(or atleast did). So because you got trolled, you trolled back. Only it missed the target. The trolls won and it's no victory to let a mod (not even akhil himself) post that ridiculously statement and close the thread so there won't be any discussion.
Also why didn't you make up a kernel? Why do you take the name of a dev who did nothing to you and drag him with you. Do you know what messages @srfarias is getting now because you thought: "lul lets take his kernel". Or does your own standards don't apply to yourself? "Trolling / harassment is bad as long as its against us? Trolling another dude is fine, as long as we don't know him?" Don't believe me? Read it here https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=78978664&postcount=112
Don't get me worn the whole maintainer team of AOSIP did great work! But on a human level they are currently as low as it can get. I personally don't give a f*ck if they stay away because this kind of devs is what's I believe makes up a toxic community. (another controversial point I guess)
Yes this is mainly a rant and maybe I'm way to offended by the devs but I really have to take this of my chest.
Thank to all the devs working on android and not playing games with their user base. And sorry @srfarias for all the sh*t you are getting right now.
Have a nice day.

Sir what's going on?

I find it a bit weird as well that they care so much about what a few people say. They completely forget about all the people who don't say anything because they have no issues at all...

Turning this theme around is trolling. Enough, please. Let's stop criticizing as users or developer and start all over again to bring out the best in us. The developers who only sporten their work and the users only our support and thanks. Enough please

Exactly that! I completely agree to all points... I bought the device 6 months back just because I saw huge development and I was completely happy with all the alternatives out there. J really liked akhils' work with Derp and never had an issue... Seeing the way now the device taking completely getting abandoned from most of the major projects going on, which also helped smaller projects to get a more polished work for our devices, just because some majority of users can't even follow the instructions of flashing or even understand what they are talking about most of the times is really disappointing.
There is always a better alternative to keep the true userbase "happy" with your work.
Everybody could easily not care about the troll's, just annouce in XDA - if they still wanted - keep a closed forum and just release personal work. Get their feedback through GitHub or any other issue tracking platform with strict bug report "protocol" and ignore all of those "members" who are unable to provide useful feedback. But, all we got now is that we got trolled by those who don't even care to try all the steps in order to provide useful feedback...
Anyways, I still appreciate the work done in Whyred and for me the best I have to do is to move to another device which potentially has a better community and devs that knows how to not care about the trolls. as most of the devs should know that 9/10 times the fault isn't in the code but in the user... Especially when we are talking about ROM/kernel performance in games for example. In telegram forum I even saw a user asking if it was possible to update his chipset form sd660 to sd845 through kernel update. Should we even care to explain to any user with this attitude? This type is not even making a research about what he is tweaking on his device and the potential damages he could get by those tweaks...

i don't own this device, but someone linked me this post for some reason.
All i can say is, i have to agree on most points in the OP.
have a nice day all

I am really Sad for this situation, I don't even own the device... but oof.... Good luck guys.

Using other devs name-for-a-project just to f'ck around/troll the users is as low as it gets.
Oh, here is my very unpopular opinion: I have had nothing but trouble with AOSiP(both oreo and pie builds). I thought it was only on my side, cuz everybody shared how good and awesome and perfect AOSiP was. Ugh, the brutal battery drains I had with AOSiP and Derp...
Holy sh't, when I read what happened yesterday, I thought I was in the wrong hecking forum and not XDA. I am glad that AOSiP is gone at this point.
Trolls should be punished, all of them, no matter who they are and what work they have done! If the main problem is trolling, make the whole forum closed behind a sub and stop whining about people being trolls. Where the f'ck have you lived until now?! On another planet? Tough luck, humans have been trolling since forever. People have been illiterate since forever. They don't care to learn, they just consume! But... When you're a dev and you're supposed to be smarter then the bunch of trolls, yet you fall on the trolls' level, you lost that one, hard!
Also, I remember srfarias from before. He has always done his best and I was surprised he started working on this device! He was never malicious! Keep it up, srfarias!

He's not in a ****, everyone here (only with brain) already knows what just happened, so it shouldn't be a problem at all, Srfarias isn't a well known (yet) on RN5 community since it was his first (and perfect) work, that's why he got attacked and to be fair that's normal and expected especially from this community, if he was a known here and developing ROMs for RN5 like the others i can imagine a totally different reaction from the same who attacked him, but since he's not known here (again, yet) then no problem, **** his rights and **** his time that he spent on this great kernel, no wonder, this is the nature of people.
Go to any ROM's topic now and see the begging, please dev don't leave us, you're the best dev, no such issue here don't report any issue you can hurt the dev, please continue your awesome work dev, will you continue this project dev?....etc.
God bless you Srfarias with this community and have fun (i doubt )

Just a personal consideration: it's sad to see how a very restricted group of people can destroy a modding community.
I can agree with you but also with the devs.
Spammers, trolls, pubg extreme players, is that really important? I have no skills about building ROMs or kernels and i'll never try to do this but, why we can't just ignore this kind of people? Why all users need to lose a good ROM (i've installed AOSiP once, and i've loved it) for those spammers?
I really hope to see AOSiP team again here in our subforum, i haven't followed this question and this is just a personal thing, but it's nice to see people on this argument.
(Sorry for my english, i have no skills on languages too )

Totally man..these devs act so mature and stuff still do retarded stuff and blame the trolls (what was the whole point of telegram group?)
.
I'm gonna give slow claps to the devs who did this experiment.
Good job you won.
.
And when it comes to this case it's not the trolls who are spreading the cancer its the...you know who.
.
SRF (the dev of pureCaf) is such a humble guy and these guys HAD to F him up.
.
Anyways I'm glad that you (the ones that did this experiment) have stopped developing ?.
We have many humble and intelligent devs who dont do stupid stuff and blame it on trolls and don't ruin other devs life.
.
Peace.

I would agree with OP on some points, including that the experiment in question was debatable because it "contained" someone's work and it had directly impacted him.
But on another note, the experiment of similar sort was desperately needed to prove a point, which many people seem to have missed.
It was not aimed at PureCAF dev and his kernel per se, it was aimed at Whyred users of different profiles who have couple of things in common - disrespect, 0 knowledge, impatience and just bad manners in summary. I have been pissed of numerous times here because I try to add something useful to disscussion and development in a way, to help other users and devs, and then comes the horde of 10 users after my post with the exact same question which I (or anyone else) have answered, not to mention that there were numerous idiotic feature requests and useless bug reports.
One thing you have to remember, the ones who have issues will always be more vocal than those who don't. We all give feedback in threads of course, but you don't suddenly jump in PM to say hey great work, everything works, keep it up, where as those badly mannered people will spam PM's if something doesn't get fixed or even their request doesn't get considered, and those people will turn to disrespect, which has been shown here frequently.
The experiment was just a tip of the iceberg, because this kind of harassment goes way way back, and with presence of Telegram as an instant messaging app, you as a known dev are fuc*ed up.
The placebo effect, which is a powerful thing sometimes, has once again proved how many clueless people are present in this forums, and how much they have an impact on community nowadays.
I have used AOSiP + Derp for a long time, and my device has performed great with that combo since June last year, but others had issues, and that's expected as although our devices are basically the same, not all electronic devices are created equal.
And have to add, I have previously used 3 flagship devices from Samsung (older ones) and Sony and no, the community there wasn't even close to this.

Nah..the point of the experiment is great, a lil bit controvery move but I agree with them.
But I don't like some part of their last statement that seems attacking purecaf dev, as far as I know srf never talk bad about them, It is some users and adi (bootlegger dev) who mock derp because rom devs change to purecaf, but once again afaik srf never do that.
In the end everyone react very poorly in this situation, looking for someone to blame in this situation is not a solution.
We (user and dev) must respect each other, mocking other dev is never good, even it is only a joke.

Sir i think derp kernel mad because everyone changing from him

alexmason90 said:
Sir i think derp kernel mad because everyone changing from him
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nah, it was much more than that, it pre-dates even this situation with PureCAF.
Guys, you'll need to see the wider picture, PureCAF kernel was not the problem, it was just the last straw. The problem lies within the community, in the nagging users themselves and the pressure they have been putting on devs.
I was expecting something similiar, I'm even surprised that it took this long, however the handling of the situation could have been better, I admit.

It's just some little kids fight, almost funny to watch actually. Ambitious and jealous people are like this, they have a tense nature.
Also, I don't believe XDA management is compotent enough. Even the website is using an outdated design and broken some parts.
Anyway, this was surely interesting to watch.

I've not read every single post, but none the less:
I've been with XDA since March of 2011. I lurked at least a year or so before that. I joined with my first smartphone ever, the HTC Desire. With every smartphone i've owned since, i was active in their respective forums. And from my personal (non scientific) feelings, the XDA community has been getting progressively "worse". I fondly remember the days where we spend days and weeks in threads talking about how to get android 4 to boot on hopefully outdated Hardware. Minor achievements where shared, several people where collectively working on something while having a nice and technical discussion. I loved coming here to hang out with the geeks and talk about the things i enjoy most.
But lately, i've just not bothered. It might be because it's my first Xiaomi, and the community is different from Samsung or HTC. I have not logged in in over 4 weeks and after coming back today i have not found a single thread that's actually usefull. Sure, Rom Releases are nice, but it feels a lot like Linux Distributions. All the same stuff with a different wallpaper and name on it. I won't **** on anyone actually putting his work out here. I highly appreciate that. But i feel the Gold Rush of Android development is done. And now here we are, complaining about what devs should and shouldn't do, and making the 100th thread about what rom has the best batterylife. I feel like most people that come here don't even care to do the bare minimum of research. That's frustrating. This used to be a place for people who enjoyed mobile devices and hacking on them as a hobby. Not a customer support forum for people not getting 20 hours of Screen on Time.
Yes, releasing a ROM with advertised changes you didn't make, and in the process using a devs name for work he didn't do is not a nice move. I can see where they are coming from and why they did what they did. It used to be a major offense against the devs to even ask for Features or ETAs. It was just not tolerated basically. We are basically doing open source development here. Want something done? Well bad luck. Do it yourself or wait for someone to do it. You are not paying anyone to do the work. Be greatfull for what our devs do and stop asking for more. If you want more, or faster, do it yourself.
I personally don't get anything of value out of XDA anymore. I've always been here to be part of the process. To be at the forefront of what's possible in mobile tech. I wanted experimental stuff and see things break for the sake of it. I enjoyed talking to devs about the process and getting insight into what's happening behind the scenes. I never came to XDA for the "best battery backup rom" out there. This is a community of interested people. Not a customer Support forum.

@domsch1988
it's not your personal feelings, it's the true fact
I think all the old users here feel the same, I've learnt alooooooooot from this community and I'm really grateful to everyone I've got something from him but now everything is really weird!
And i really liked this "Rom Releases are nice, but it feels a lot like Linux Distributions. All the same stuff with a different wallpaper and name on it" , it's like we are in Olympics, tons of ROMS and sharing the same bugs and sometimes full of bugs like the earlier releases of every android pie ROM here once Pie was out, why everyone was in a hurry to give a full of bugs ROM? glory or first Pie ROM maybe? instead of squashing the bugs and giving 3 or 4 perfect ROMS every day a new ROM with the same ****, and it's not only that, half of the ROMS now have 3 versions, the official, the modded or unofficial one and the one on telegram (the new disaster on XDA) WTF? and 90% of the developers here are not responding to any inquiries, yeah, i can clearly notice that.
Why they aren't working together and give their best instead of this mess if they really want to serve this community? I've seen many users here complain that they are confused and don't know which is better or with less bugs or will get regular updates.....etc.
About (the majority) on this community i think there's no need to talk since i really get bored and nothing will ever change here, sad but true.
And finally a new dev came here and gave us a prefect kernel and now he is involved without making any mistake, his crime is that he refused to see his work is being used from the others and without even asking or mentioning him, LOL!
Everything is getting worse here, and unfortunately from all not only the users.
Btw, Thanks for this post :good:

One quick reply: the general decline in the community is not specific for XDA, it is a general phenomena concerning the internet. In the beginning mostly the geeks and nerds used the internet. Now everyone is literally always online. Of course this includes all the idiots and a...holes, too.
And because most people think that nobody knows who they are while posting on the internet, civility went down the drain, too.
Gesendet von meinem MI PAD 4 PLUS mit Tapatalk

Gandhi70 said:
One quick reply: the general decline in the community is not specific for XDA, it is a general phenomena concerning the internet. In the beginning mostly the geeks and nerds used the internet. Now everyone is literally always online. Of course this includes all the idiots and a...holes, too.
And because most people think that nobody knows who they are while posting on the internet, civility went down the drain, too.
Gesendet von meinem MI PAD 4 PLUS mit Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Since we are in a general talk topic I just want to say that this is the best and the KISS explanation ever given in forum. This really small paragraph you wrote can easily explain on it's own what happened to all technical communities!!!

Database Info

welcome