Here is my story:
http://www.expansys.com/ft.aspx?k=120187
I'm going to send them an LBA tomorrow morning and go the legal route. Disgusting. Totaly ignored and swept under the carpet.
Shame really, as its probably a hardware defect and they could replace the phone and I would be happy.
Use them at your own risk.
Shame to hear this...
Wish you the best in all the process
I have always avoided them...Hope it works out for you.
Wow. That was a pretty piss-poor response from the Expansys employee. I've had trouble with Expansys before but was going to buy through them again (the Touch Pro 2). I'm going to take my money elsewhere though now, pay a bit more, but at least get to deal with someone who doesn't have an attitude.
Jadel said:
Wow. That was a pretty piss-poor response from the Expansys employee. I've had trouble with Expansys before but was going to buy through them again (the Touch Pro 2). I'm going to take my money elsewhere though now, pay a bit more, but at least get to deal with someone who doesn't have an attitude.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed, very shocking and something I would never tolerate from a member of my teams or company. Here is my response, just in case they delete it:
"Thank you Yoni and Anita. For the record, I have spoken to your sales team, 3 times over the course of the week on the phone and 3 times via email - maybe now you can understand why I am so frustrated? I had the RMA form emailed to me and fully filled out by myself as early as Wednesday however, I was advised that I needed to wait for a response to this Forum post BEFORE an RMA number would be authorised - hence the 2 phone calls and 3 emails to chase this up. I question why its taken a week for this and also why i STILL have not received the RMA number?
BTW, for a period yesterday your main customer services number rang four times and then went dead - i tried this three tmes, with the same result.
Pete, your response is unprofessional and unwarranted. Volunteer, part time, full time or community service, when you respond with that red banner you are representing Expansys and all its employees. If you wish to be rude to a business customer who is clearly frustrated and has been let down by the support process you should first; ensure you are in full receipt of the facts, two; remember you are representing THE company and three be curteous - no matter how rude the customer is. A well trained customer services representative should never be sarcastic, pedantic or patronising. If I was an employee of Expansys who get there monthly rent paid by people like me (and my company) and I had read that response I would not be a happy on how you have spoken to a potential sales lead for many thousands over the next few months.
This clearly demonstrates why using untrained volunteers to help on a support forums is a very bad idea.
edit:
BTW, this "After 10 days products covered under warranty should be returned to the manufacturer for repair or replacement" is in clear breach of the Sales of Goods act."
FINALY got an RMA number now my business account manager is back at work. Can't believe its been such a fiasco.
Good to hear, you got rma number.
Stunning, truley stunning. I have spoken to a few of you over the phone now, each one promising action and nothing. I guess I have no choice but to go the legal route now.
A letter before action will be in the recored post tomorrow afternoon for selling a product which is not fit for purpose under the Sales of Goods Act.
AttorneyCompany said:
Stunning, truley stunning. I have spoken to a few of you over the phone now, each one promising action and nothing. I guess I have no choice but to go the legal route now.
A letter before action will be in the recored post tomorrow afternoon for selling a product which is not fit for purpose under the Sales of Goods Act.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Attorney? FAIL. UK. Your obviously not very good are you as you would know that you dont have "Sales of goods act" in the US. Your not a good advert.
---------------
Btw, to anyone else reading this thats not a wana-be-lawyer company. I have now spoken with Expansys worldwide MD and I have a brand new unit in the post. The senior management team have now gone some way to restoring my confidence in Expansys.
Monty Burns said:
This clearly demonstrates why using untrained volunteers to help on a support forums is a very bad idea.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It certainly clearly demonstrates why using the wrong mode of support for a device is a bad idea. As the guy on the forum told you, there was an RMA form on the site. Personally, I would have called for an RMA initially and I would have been calling customer services and not sales as you state you did. Before getting so wound up about it, why don't you take a step back and look at it from a logical point of view? How would a public forum be able to discuss individual faults? For anything that is specific to you such as a return, It's always going to be better to contact the company direct with a phone call or an email, a forum just isn't the place for that kind of thing and to be fair to the guy that snapped at you, you were taking a quite abrasive tone. Maybe you didn't intend it that way, but it certainly came out that way in text.
Ok .... first off why are you getting wound up unless you are PeteGraham?
second, I did phone sales and emailed "enliven". I was told to post on the TECHNICAL SUPPORT forums for them to confirm it was an issue.... note, its a TECHNICAL SUPPORT forum.... thats why i posted my "indivivual fault". I was told that until they said it was an RMA (by Yoni) then I could not return it, does that make it clear?
For your information the head of corporate sales has said to me, and these are quotes, "we dropped the ball on this" and "we made an utter mess of it" and "Roger (the MD) will be performing a complete review of the sales and support process" based on my email conversation and the evidence presented to him.
The sales line who messed up by telling me I needed to post on the forums, the guy on the forums (whether he likes it or not, DOES represent Exanpsys as he comes across in RED) and acted unprofessionaly and insultingly without first knowing ALL the facts.
Get wound up all you like (not sure why? You weren't involed in the drama) but Expansys have now appologised to me and as soon as the MD/Head of Corporate Sales were involved, very quickly replaced the unit - no questions asked. They have now gone a very long way to restoring my faith in them.
Oh and why did I phone the sales line?
http://www.expansys.com/customerservice.aspx#returnfaulty
If your goods arrive faulty or develop a fault within the first 10 days, you can return them to eXpansys for repair or replacement.
Please contact the sales team on +44 (0)161 868 0868 or download this RMA form (click here) and follow the instructions to authorise the return of goods
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And btw, the person on the sales line also emailed me the RMA form at the same time but again told me to post first for an RMA number.
I've also informed them that the "If your goods arrive faulty or develop a fault within the first 10 days, you can return them to eXpansys for repair or replacement" is in breach of the Sales Of Goods Act here in the UK and they are breaking the law - note, this instruction is applied to both consumers and corporate customers.
So, like the guy on the Expansys forums, maybe you should be in full receipt of the facts before posting (oh.... and read the Expansys FAQ for a start!)
Hi, I'm unsure where to post this or if its been posted before ive searched but did not have much luck sorry.
I'm from the UK, currently my phone i got is android based but have not rooted it, ive seen what i can do if i do root it but the warranty bit is an issue for me.
I'm wondering if there is any phone on either Tmo or 3 in the UK which if you root it does not void the warranty, or if there is a 100% chance of them not being able to see it.
I'm upgrading next year and will probably be coming back to XDA for advice on what phone to get.
Rooting your phone will void the warranty but that shouldn't stop yo you can easily restore your phone to how it use to be so they won't be able to detect anything was wrong. Just follow the guides on how to back your phone up.
Ps Welcome =D
Warranty has no bearing on your statutory rights.
In the UK warranties are pretty much worthless, the law protects you much better.
Basically if you rooted, the retailer would have to show that the fault you are having was caused by the rooting.
The manufacturer has no responsibility to you, it is all with the retailer.
So say you had a £400 phone that developed a screen fault after 13 months, Tmo might try and tell you "it is out of warranty" to whic you can reply "It's a £400 phone, the screen should last more than 13 months" and quote then the relevant sale of goods act etc.
Worst case you take them to the small claims court, win and send the bailiffs in.
Please use the Q&A Forum for questions Thanks
Moving to Q&A
Thank for the answers.
Xaccers, never knew that, thanks a lot. Now I will definitely root on my next phone. Glad I asked now I know the information.
Thanks again.
Sorry for posting in the wrong forum lufc
rooting is awesome! and of course you can return it back to stock to send in >.<
xaccers said:
Warranty has no bearing on your statutory rights.
In the UK warranties are pretty much worthless, the law protects you much better.
Basically if you rooted, the retailer would have to show that the fault you are having was caused by the rooting.
The manufacturer has no responsibility to you, it is all with the retailer.
So say you had a £400 phone that developed a screen fault after 13 months, Tmo might try and tell you "it is out of warranty" to whic you can reply "It's a £400 phone, the screen should last more than 13 months" and quote then the relevant sale of goods act etc.
Worst case you take them to the small claims court, win and send the bailiffs in.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is great news for me! I have been searching for this info for a while & now I will root my device without fear.
Good to see some UK based users here, there don't seem to be many in my device forum.
Happy days
If you live in the EU, Samsung can't void your warranty because of Knox accordingly to EU warranty Law 1999/44/CE.
It dictates that any object meeting certain criteria (including telephones, computers, routers etc.) being sold to a consumer inside the European Union, has to carry a warranty from the seller that the device will meet the quality that you would expect for such a device for a period of 2 years. A telephone is an example of such a device and is an object that comprises many parts, from the case to the screen to the radio, to a mini-computer, to the battery, to the software that runs it. If any of these parts stop working in those 2 years, the seller has to fix or replace them. What is more these repairs should not cost the consumer a single cent, the seller has to cover the expenses (Directive 1999/44/CE, §3). If the seller has any expenses for returning it to the manufacturer, this is not your problem as a consumer.
If your device becomes defective in the first 6 months, it is presumed that the defect was there all along, so you should not need to prove anything. If your device becomes defective after the first 6 months, but before 2 years run out, you are still covered. The difference is only that if the defect arises now, the seller can claim that the defect was caused by some action that was triggered by non-normal use of the device.
Unless the seller can prove that modifying the software, rooting your device or flashing it with some other OS or firmware was the cause for the defect, you are still covered for defects during those 2 years. A good test to see if it is the software’s fault is to flash it back with stock firmware and see if the problem persists. If it does, it is not a software-caused problem. If it is not possible to revert it stock software any more, it is also not a software-caused defect (unless you have "bricked" the phone while flashing it, un-bricking is not covered by any statutory warranty). There are very few hardware defects that are caused by software (overriding the speaker volume above the safe level could blow the speaker.
Many manufacturers of consumer devices write into their warranties a paragraph that by changing the software or “rooting” your device, you void the warranty, thats NOT legitimate.
Yes, we know.
We've been through this same thing with the TF700, where unlocking your bootloader needs to be done with the official asus tool, which then gives you a voiding prompt and registers your deviceID as unlocked.
I'm the one who stepped to the EU court about it and passed it to the media...
Send From My Samsung Galaxy Note 3 N9005 Using Tapatalk
ShadowLea said:
Yes, we know.
We've been through this same thing with the TF700, where unlocking your bootloader needs to be done with the official asus tool, which then gives you a voiding prompt and registers your deviceID as unlocked.
I'm the one who stepped to the EU court about it and passed it to the media...
Send From My Samsung Galaxy Note 3 N9005 Using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We know, and we thank you. We've read your relevant thread about this.
TheExodus said:
If you live in the EU, Samsung can't void your warranty because of Knox accordingly to EU warranty Law 1999/44/CE.
It dictates that any object meeting certain criteria (including telephones, computers, routers etc.) being sold to a consumer inside the European Union, has to carry a warranty from the seller that the device will meet the quality that you would expect for such a device for a period of 2 years. A telephone is an example of such a device and is an object that comprises many parts, from the case to the screen to the radio, to a mini-computer, to the battery, to the software that runs it. If any of these parts stop working in those 2 years, the seller has to fix or replace them. What is more these repairs should not cost the consumer a single cent, the seller has to cover the expenses (Directive 1999/44/CE, §3). If the seller has any expenses for returning it to the manufacturer, this is not your problem as a consumer.
If your device becomes defective in the first 6 months, it is presumed that the defect was there all along, so you should not need to prove anything. If your device becomes defective after the first 6 months, but before 2 years run out, you are still covered. The difference is only that if the defect arises now, the seller can claim that the defect was caused by some action that was triggered by non-normal use of the device.
Unless the seller can prove that modifying the software, rooting your device or flashing it with some other OS or firmware was the cause for the defect, you are still covered for defects during those 2 years. A good test to see if it is the software’s fault is to flash it back with stock firmware and see if the problem persists. If it does, it is not a software-caused problem. If it is not possible to revert it stock software any more, it is also not a software-caused defect (unless you have "bricked" the phone while flashing it, un-bricking is not covered by any statutory warranty). There are very few hardware defects that are caused by software (overriding the speaker volume above the safe level could blow the speaker.
Many manufacturers of consumer devices write into their warranties a paragraph that by changing the software or “rooting” your device, you void the warranty, thats NOT legitimate.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yop, this should be the truth, but, the real is, no-one gives warranty if you modify something of it's product. If you buy a car and modify something in it, warranty will be avoid.
only one thing you could do is to start a big class action, but, when i say big, i'm meaning BIG!
i repeat, no-one gives warranty of it's product if you change something in it, no-one
iba21 said:
yop, this should be the truth, but, the real is, no-one gives warranty if you modify something of it's product. If you buy a car and modify something in it, warranty will be avoid.
only one thing you could do is to start a big class action, but, when i say big, i'm meaning BIG!
i repeat, no-one gives warranty of it's product if you change something in it, no-one
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Stop FUDding please. If you damage or change the hardware, yes. But software or even firmware changes don't matter: if the device stops working, it should be replaced. And there's no such thing as a class action over here. .. Other laws you know.
Sent from my GT-N7100 using xda app-developers app
iba21 said:
yop, this should be the truth, but, the real is, no-one gives warranty if you modify something of it's product. If you buy a car and modify something in it, warranty will be avoid.
only one thing you could do is to start a big class action, but, when i say big, i'm meaning BIG!
i repeat, no-one gives warranty of it's product if you change something in it, no-one
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what they would lead us yo believe but not factual. Do you how many people get deterred from claiming warranty because of such statements? Software is completely different from hardware when it comes to warranty. I myself have phones replaced even though rooted. I'm sending another one for repairs.
Yrcimim said:
Stop FUDding please. If you damage or change the hardware, yes. But software or even firmware changes don't matter: if the device stops working, it should be replaced. And there's no such thing as a class action over here. .. Other laws you know.
Sent from my GT-N7100 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
riz157 said:
That's what they would lead us yo believe but not factual. Do you how many people get deterred from claiming warranty because of such statements? Software is completely different from hardware when it comes to warranty. I myself have phones replaced even though rooted. I'm sending another one for repairs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, i'm not defending samsung, i'm pro modding, as you can see in my signature
The only thing is, if you unlock the phone you can have problems with warranty.. is it legal? Well, suppouse it's unlegal, you have a damage phone, you send it to samsung, it doesen't fix the for free, what will you do?
Justice and real life are not synonymous
iba21 said:
Well, i'm not defending samsung, i'm pro modding, as you can see in my signature
The only thing is, if you unlock the phone you can have problems with warranty.. is it legal? Well, suppouse it's unlegal, you have a damage phone, you send it to samsung, it doesen't fix the for free, what will you do?
Justice and real life are not synonymous
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Under EU law, your contract is with the seller, so you send the phone to them, not Samsung. If they then send it to Samsung who say "sorry, warranty void" the seller's still on the hook for repairing or replacing.
Obviously this means buying direct from Samsung is a bad idea It's best to buy from someone who's fairly good with returns (ie direct from Amazon rather than from some Amazon Marketplace seller you never heard of, even if they are £20 cheaper…)
Tiny Clanger said:
Under EU law, your contract is with the seller, so you send the phone to them, not Samsung. If they then send it to Samsung who say "sorry, warranty void" the seller's still on the hook for repairing or replacing.
Obviously this means buying direct from Samsung is a bad idea It's best to buy from someone who's fairly good with returns (ie direct from Amazon rather than from some Amazon Marketplace seller you never heard of, even if they are £20 cheaper…)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well, this is absolutely correct :good::good:
iba21 said:
i repeat, no-one gives warranty of it's product if you change something in it, no-one
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, no.
have a computer and Install linux. Say your CD Drive or whatever gets damaged, NO ONE will say: "you have modified the system on your Computer, so you dont get a warranty repair"...
TheExodus said:
Many manufacturers of consumer devices write into their warranties a paragraph that by changing the software or “rooting” your device, you void the warranty, thats NOT legitimate.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
a Manufaturer May do this since the Manucaturer Warranty is optional and has nothing to do with the warranty of the seller.
Tiny Clanger said:
Under EU law, your contract is with the seller, so you send the phone to them, not Samsung. If they then send it to Samsung who say "sorry, warranty void" the seller's still on the hook for repairing or replacing.
Obviously this means buying direct from Samsung is a bad idea It's best to buy from someone who's fairly good with returns (ie direct from Amazon rather than from some Amazon Marketplace seller you never heard of, even if they are £20 cheaper…)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, even IF you buy it from Samsung, the EU seller warranty (I'm grateful Germany has 2 seperate words for those) isnt Affected by EULAs and whatnot. even if they say they wont repair it for the manufacturer warranty, you still have the option to say they're also the seller, so the seller warranty applies...
orbitech said:
We know, and we thank you. We've read your relevant thread about this.
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Click to collapse
I see what you did there and me like it. Talk about killing someone with his own medicine
If you read the warranty card...according to Sammy ...anything you do, even an app install, would void the warranty. check teh small print. That's why we have EU directives. Also, bad experience, we lately had a Toshiba Quismo refused to warranty repair because we downgraded to WIN7...Sammy still has 5 star CS compared to others
even an app install???
can you quote me that?
OMG then the US practically has no warranty for Samsung SMartphones at all...
... accordingly to EU warranty Law 1999/44/CE.
This is not a EU law but a Directive 1999/44/CE from EU and a Directive is not a Law.
Like You see here at step [1]:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1998801
I quote:
[1] EU member states must have by now imported the Directive 1999/44/CE into their national laws. So you should quote also your local law on that topic.
To see if You have on Your Country National Laws about see here:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:71999L0044:EN:NOT
Click on Your Country.
My1xT said:
Well, no.
have a computer and Install linux. Say your CD Drive or whatever gets damaged, NO ONE will say: "you have modified the system on your Computer, so you dont get a warranty repair"...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
man, pc is not an EMBEDDED hardware.. pc has singolar warranty for each pcb/cpu
try to install a modded firmware of a new graphic card, try to brake it, and send the graphic card to the manufacture, try, and see if it will ben repaired even if YOU BROKE THE FIRMWARE BY A MODEDD ONE.. try :good:
try to broke the bios/efi of the motherboard of pc
or the firmware of the hdd/ssd
try to overclock rams over its max voltage
try
overclocking can damage the hardware itself, of course it's NOT keeping the warranty.
but why can android be not as modular in the sme fashion every part has it's own firmware and changing from Stock android to Cyano or whatnot should be seen as a similar process as changing from Windows to Ubuntu or whatnot...
My experience from sending a rooted Note 2 back to Samsung (I forgot to unroot it lol) was that they completely refused to do anything with it despite me asking nicely and then not so nicely!
When I unrooted it properly and sent it back, they fixed it without a quibble, thank god their records were crap!
I don't think I'll touch my Note 3 until all traces can be hidden from Samsung.
oalex said:
I see what you did there and me like it. Talk about killing someone with his own medicine
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Her, mate.
Also, I did not make a thread because I might as well make one in every bloody device specific forum, as people here never use the search function when it is required anyway.
Plus it doesn't apply if you use a Carrier-bound phone. They have their own insurance, and you still have to pay the 192 euro 'research costs'.
I've stopped pointing out things. I spend almost a month pre-release telling everyone that the Region Lock was software-based and nobody believed me. Might as well not, as people don't listen anyway.
ShadowLea said:
Her, mate.
Also, I did not make a thread because I might as well make one in every bloody device specific forum, as people here never use the search function when it is required anyway.
Plus it doesn't apply if you use a Carrier-bound phone. They have their own insurance, and you still have to pay the 192 euro 'research costs'.
I've stopped pointing out things. I spend almost a month pre-release telling everyone that the Region Lock was software-based and nobody believed me. Might as well not, as people don't listen anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And you think I care about all what you just wrote to me why?
Apart from the "her, mate" part, didn't you want to write the rest to someone else?
oalex said:
And you think I care about all what you just wrote to me why?
Apart from the "her, mate" part, didn't you want to write the rest to someone else?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did, but for some reason the Multi-quote option didn't stick.
I also can't edit, and the search function also gives a blank page. Server seems to be having a fit again.
Heller i have a big problem i was trading my car against this phone with my friends x girlfriend, and now she called and made it imei locked.
I have tried with Police but they wont do anything.
Is it possible to change imei number or maby change operative system?
Thanks for help
Gbgboy said:
Heller i have a big problem i was trading my car against this phone with my friends x girlfriend, and now she called and made it imei locked.
I have tried with Police but they wont do anything.
Is it possible to change imei number or maby change operative system?
Thanks for help
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mate changing the imei is ilegal............
You can change the firmware but imei will not change.
MAX 404 said:
Mate changing the imei is ilegal............
You can change the firmware but imei will not change.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If i change the firmware can i use it then?
Yea i know its not legal but i really need the phone to work :/
in the US, small claims court if you have proof (messages etc) of such an agreement, otherwise you could attempt to have the police seize her (your former) car for fraud and argue that circumstantially she just SUDDENLY owns your car, you SUDDENLY have her phone, and she has it locked down? Thats theft by deception (by a stretch), but also theft by misrepresentation and fraud on her part; argueably grand theft auto (again im familiar with US law).
Or have it repo'd by police and claim the buyer misrepresented terms of sale fraudulently. Is there a bill of sale for the car? any documentation?
I studied law in the US but never took the BAR, GF is an attorney. There HAS to be a loophole or evidence or lack of good faith showing she misrepresented or bought/traded/sold in bad faith. Feel free to PM me. Admit nothing, make no statements other than what you have. Collect save print and present everything you have.
And most importantly don't lie (not saying you have/did/will; just dont; makes litigation that much harder if both parties do).
Gbgboy said:
If i change the firmware can i use it then?
Yea i know its not legal but i really need the phone to work :/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No it will be still blocked....
---------- Post added at 02:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:15 PM ----------
Slade8525 said:
in the US, small claims court if you have proof (messages etc) of such an agreement, otherwise you could attempt to have the police seize her (your former) car for fraud and argue that circumstantially she just SUDDENLY owns your car, you SUDDENLY have her phone, and she has it locked down? Thats theft by deception (by a stretch), but also theft by misrepresentation and fraud on her part; argueably grand theft auto (again im familiar with US law).
Or have it repo'd by police and claim the buyer misrepresented terms of sale fraudulently. Is there a bill of sale for the car? any documentation?
I studied law in the US but never took the BAR, GF is an attorney. There HAS to be a loophole or evidence or lack of good faith showing she misrepresented or bought/traded/sold in bad faith. Feel free to PM me. Admit nothing, make no statements other than what you have. Collect save print and present everything you have.
And most importantly don't lie (not saying you have/did/will; just dont; makes litigation that much harder if both parties do).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
I'm sorry but as already stated changing IMEI is illegal and can't be discussed on xda.
Thread Closed