Stick Options - Android Stick & Console Computers General

I have been looking and looking and really can't figure out the best option for me.
I need an Android stick (want to use the Plex app) that has Ethernet. Besides that all I need is it to be powerful enough to play full 1080P content without issue.
I live in Canada, what's the best/cheapest one I can get?

Tronsmart has some pretty good ones for what you need it for and I think they can ship to Canada.

Solid-run will start shipping the cubox line soon hi end $120 for quad core,runs android or linux
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk

Related

Get the Transformer or keep the HP Touchpad and wait?

A lot of people acquired the HP Touchpad this weekend due to HP's firesale. It's fairly likely that Android will be ported over to it soon. Honestly I really wanted to get the Asus Transformer, but couldn't say no to the $99 price of the Touchpad.
So my question to you is: Do I wait until the Transformer 2 comes out or should I sell the HP and get the Transformer 1 now?
Depends if you need the dock..
Try to sell it. I'll give you $50 for it. I mean, it is a discontinued device that probably won't get much legacy support. Or buy a TF, use both for a week, and sell or return the one you like least.
i think you're a bit too omptimistic on the touchpad getting cm7. there's a lot of things to be done before a functional android port is ready for the common folk.
assuming they manage to do an insecure boot, they'd still have to implement (or find a compatible) driver for all the components of the touchpad. the android version is most liked going to be gingerbread (as per touchdroid project's set goals).
by the time a fully funation android system is up and running, it might be time for an upgrade. of course, webos isn't a terrible OS, so you would have gotten some use of it, so it's not a total waste...but if you're getting it with an android port it mind, i'd say good luck.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
SilverZero said:
Try to sell it. I'll give you $50 for it. I mean, it is a discontinued device that probably won't get much legacy support. Or buy a TF, use both for a week, and sell or return the one you like least.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I just bought it for $115. I'm sure not going to sell it for $50 when they're selling on ebay for $215.
finalhit said:
i think you're a bit too omptimistic on the touchpad getting cm7. there's a lot of things to be done before a functional android port is ready for the common folk.
assuming they manage to do an insecure boot, they'd still have to implement (or find a compatible) driver for all the components of the touchpad. the android version is most liked going to be gingerbread (as per touchdroid project's set goals).
by the time a fully funation android system is up and running, it might be time for an upgrade. of course, webos isn't a terrible OS, so you would have gotten some use of it, so it's not a total waste...but if you're getting it with an android port it mind, i'd say good luck.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is exactly the type of information I'm looking for. Thank you finalhit! I'm really green when it comes to porting an OS, so your timeframe helps to put things into perspective. I won't expect Android anytime soon. WebOS seems to work pretty great for now. I've got skype and hulu running well... and I love the way it integrates all of my photos from facebook as well as all of my email addresses seamlessly. The free 50gb of web storage is nice, and having the same screen as the iPad is great too. LOL, I think I may end up keeping both.... and then sell the Transformer when the TF2 comes out. It was only $286 anyway.
If you are searching for an highly customizable and productor supported tablet you may definitely go for the transformer IMHO..which android is designed for..
However, why do you want to sell your touchpad that you had just buy?..
If I was in you even if I want to buy the transformer I'll wait for news about the new transformer and/or news about an android port for the touchad..always IMHO..
I suggest u wait for transformer 2 wit a kal el processor which is rumoured to be out b4 christmas, and use the touchpad to hold u over til it comes in. I have a transformer and recently acquired a 32 gb touchpad bc I wanted to check out web os. I haven't received my touchpad yet but I've heard good things about web os and it should atleast do u a decent job until the next gen android tablets come out.
Sent from my Samsung Epic
ravizzle said:
I suggest u wait for transformer 2 wit a kal el processor which is rumoured to be out b4 christmas, and use the touchpad to hold u over til it comes in. I have a transformer and recently acquired a 32 gb touchpad bc I wanted to check out web os. I haven't received my touchpad yet but I've heard good things about web os and it should atleast do u a decent job until the next gen android tablets come out.
Sent from my Samsung Epic
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like you, I have them both... TouchPad and the Transformer.
Theys hould be announcing the Transformer 2 in October. I will give the old Transformer 2 to my wife.
As for the Touchpad, I have played around with it (I bought a 32gb one)for 2 straight days. Build quality is excellent. Speed gets a disgruntled "meh". Display is nice. Flash in the browsers is EXTRA Nice (better than Android Stock browser, for sure). Speaker quality is exceptional. Headphone quality is ok, but when I plug it into my car stereo, audio levels go wayyyy down. Game play is good also. A year ago, folks would pay $99-150.00 for a Digital Picture frame. If I can find the stand, for between $30.00-$50.00, I wil l have paid $180-200.00 for a DPF that also plays music, streams movies (get Kalemsoft), surfs the web, plays games, and if they finish the QuickOffice app correctly, types papers.
I think it was and is the DEAL of the century.
I'd say just keep the Touchpad. $115 doesn't really dent your wallet, and by the time the TF 2 comes out decide to get it then. From what I've seen, I think the Touchpad would be a nice couch tablet, especially for the price. Just have it on the coffee table in front of your TV. Seems perfect for those moments when your wondering who that pretty actress is, or when said movie was made, etc. I couldn't see myself using it as a everyday tab like my TF.
EDIT: Anyone know where they are in stock? I want one, my mom wants one, and so does her co-worker, but we'd like to only pay the discounted $99.
SwiftLegend said:
I'd say just keep the Touchpad. $115 doesn't really dent your wallet, and by the time the TF 2 comes out decide to get it then. From what I've seen, I think the Touchpad would be a nice couch tablet, especially for the price. Just have it on the coffee table in front of your TV. Seems perfect for those moments when your wondering who that pretty actress is, or when said movie was made, etc. I couldn't see myself using it as a everyday tab like my TF.
EDIT: Anyone know where they are in stock? I want one, my mom wants one, and so does her co-worker, but we'd like to only pay the discounted $99.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not in stock anywhere anymore. Maybe HP might get some shipments from retailers like costco who shipped their inventory back, so the official hp site is probably ur best bet, but i doubt they will get em.

Which Tablet should I get to use mainly as a Ereader?

I am looking at getting a Tablet PC but all the different tablets for sale are confusing the heck outta me and I can't figure out which 1 are good and which ones will do the things I would like it to do. The fact I live in UK and any interesting sounded tablets are only for sale in USA don't help matters that much.
I would like a Android Tablet that I can read ebooks downloaded from amazon, is portable and light and can do a little bit of web surfing. I'm going to be using it in bed alot to read books as I am finding it very difficult to read books in bed as I keep loosing the page when the book slips out of the hand or the when the fan is on and turns the pages.
I am not interested in a Kindle because it's just a Ereader and I would like to do more then just read books as I mentioned above. And I would like to have 2.2 or higher, I don't want to be waiting around for 10 minutes waiting for a website or app to start up and I'm on a budget of £200, $325. Any suggestions?
You could buy a Nook Color, root it, and put CM7 on it. You can use any ebook reader with it that way, and it should be pretty cheap compared to other options.
You may want to read up on it before you buy it, as I don't know what limitations you'll come against since it wasn't originally meant to be used as a tablet. I'd help you out, but I don't know anything about it other than the fact that it can be done.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
Unfortunately as I don't live in USA I can't get a Nook Colour because Barnes and Noble aren't in the UK
Any other suggestions?
I've actually come across refurbished Advent Vega's for £130 is this a good deal?
I have a dell streak 7 wifi and honestly I think this is one time the smaller screen and form factor works as a benefit. It is similar size to a nook and similar weight if I am not mistaken. I read books on it and find it easy to set down and read or hold for extended periods of time. Hope this helps.
I would suggest Nook color as well.
FC360 said:
Unfortunately as I don't live in USA I can't get a Nook Colour because Barnes and Noble aren't in the UK
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Buy one online that ships worldwide?
I don't importing from USA as there are some differences between the power of UK and USA and I'm not sure what I would need to get American electronics to work in UK, I know USA uses a different power output then UK too and what I understand I would have to buy a transformer which can be expensive. I do like the look of the Dell streak, had a mess around with 1 at PCWorld and thought it was amazing, maybe I'll wait for another month and buy 1
FC360 said:
I don't importing from USA as there are some differences between the power of UK and USA and I'm not sure what I would need to get American electronics to work in UK, I know USA uses a different power output then UK too and what I understand I would have to buy a transformer which can be expensive. I do like the look of the Dell streak, had a mess around with 1 at PCWorld and thought it was amazing, maybe I'll wait for another month and buy 1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is a great device for what you are looking for. I say go for it. Best of luck with whatever you end up buying.
Sent from my Dell Streak 7 using xda premium
I would say Nook Color as well, it is what it is intended for, its easily modded for full on android experience too.

[Q] Is there a "cheap" WP7 phone out there?

So, I'm looking to get a wp7 phone, strictly for the xbox live games/integration. I already have a phone that I love, but I happen to be a bit of an xbox achievement whore, and it'd be cool to be able to play games on a handheld that count for gamerscore (I know, I'm pathetic). Obviously, I don't need a contract with a carrier for this, since I won't be using the phone as a phone. I plan on just using it on wifi.
Unfortunately, I don't know much about wp7 phones at all, so I'm hoping you guys can point me in the right direction of a "cheap" (prefereable < $100) handset that will run games halfway decently.
Thanks in advance!
Im in the same situation, though im trying to replace a zunehd.
I looked around, and it seems like the LG quantum is the cheapest, so far.
Sent from my NookColor using Tapatalk
there is no phone where you can play games decently as all windows phones have a minimum hardware requirements..Almost all windows phones are compatible with the apps and games available in the marketplace. The best and the cheapest option available according to me is Samsung focus SGH-i917 you should get a good used phone for arnd $150 ..LG quantum is also good and cheaper than focus..you should get that for around 120-130 USD..
TheStick13 said:
So, I'm looking to get a wp7 phone, strictly for the xbox live games/integration. I already have a phone that I love, but I happen to be a bit of an xbox achievement whore, and it'd be cool to be able to play games on a handheld that count for gamerscore (I know, I'm pathetic). Obviously, I don't need a contract with a carrier for this, since I won't be using the phone as a phone. I plan on just using it on wifi.
Unfortunately, I don't know much about wp7 phones at all, so I'm hoping you guys can point me in the right direction of a "cheap" (prefereable < $100) handset that will run games halfway decently.
Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have Verizon wireless according to your profile. You have only one choice.
The HTC Trophy. Not a bad little phone but, if your a heavy gamer like I am, it's not really fully designed for that. I have one. Games run fine on it and Mango games run even better (60fps, noticable difference).
Note, besides bigger screens, storage memory or QWERTY keyboards, every first gen WP7 device specs are the same.
The HTC Trophy is $49.99 with a 2 year, and you can get one Non-Contract price for about $400 (ebay $250-400 new/used).
How's that for cheap ?
Also to note, if you wanted to use a WP7 device after playing with it as your phone with your carrier, the Verizon HTC Trophy (Spark_W) is really your only option.
Well, since you are not looking to use it for phone, I recommend you get the LG Quantum. You can get brand new unsubsidized one for $200.
Thanks everybody for the info. I don't think $200 is worth it to me for a few achievement points at the moment. Maybe I'll try to find a Quantum on Craig's list or something. Thanks again!

[Q] Thinking of buying one of these

I love Android, and especially the community that every device has.
I currently have an Epic 4G Touch (Sprint's GSII) and I have never owned a tablet.
This Thanksgiving break I visited my cousins and lo behold, practically all of them had an iPad 2. It was a very convenient thing to have around, I never really saw a tablet as a useful item. But I see that tablets are really neat now, it's like a phone, but bigger and not as heavy and clunky as a laptop.
And with today's web based world, it's really convenient to have a tablet on your coffee table to just use when chatting with friends, family gatherings or just watching tv and you need to look up something on the web. Or a device to watch Netflix or Hulu on, but your phone's screen is just too small and it's weird to hold it. Blah blah, useful features could go on.
Anyways, I missed the BestBuy sale for $250 unfortunately, and Gamestop is sold out for $300. But on Craiglist, a lot of folks are selling them for $330 unopened because they are bastards and bought them during black friday to make a profit.
I know the Transformer Prime is coming out on 12/8 for $500 but I simply can't afford that. Do you guys think that the regular Transformer will drop down in Price after the Prime comes out?
So I am left with multiple dilemmas:
1. Buy brand new for $330 off craiglist
2. Wait for possible price drop
3. 3D monitor + nVidia 3D vision kit
4. Solid State Drive
When I look into Android products I look into the modding community for the device on XDA, and it looks like the Eee pad has the best one.
So, should I get one or no?
If you could provide me with a link to buy one for under $300, I will buy it without hesitation.
Thank you
I can't give you a link, but I will tell you that you will certainly love your Eee Pad. Keep looking. This week has a lot of good internet deals. You're bound to find something. Otherwise offer someone on craigslist around $315 and see if they bite. Even at $330, its still a great value.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using xda premium
As an owner of a transformer I can personally say that it's a great device. It does everything for me (including the stuff you listed) and i'm not sure how much a performance boost the quad core will actually bring (to me i think the tegra 3 is an overkill in processor power).
I recall asus saying that when the transformer prime is released, the old transformer price will drop to 250 and 350 for the 16 and 32gb models (respectively). Don't quote me on this though.
However, if your interested in the dev/modding of the transformer you may be disappointed. I believe all the models you'll find in the stores today will have a locked kernel which means you can't root the device (until the xda dev's figure a way out)
will3330 said:
However, if your interested in the dev/modding of the transformer you may be disappointed. I believe all the models you'll find in the stores today will have a locked kernel which means you can't root the device (until the xda dev's figure a way out)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What really? No way...
If I can't root it that's a deal breaker right there
edit: well im doing some current browsing on the forum and no where does it mention that some models can't be rooted.
In fact there's a one click root for all models in the dev section
New models can be rooted now. There is a link in the dev section somewhere. If you can wait untill the Prime comes out I will have 2 32gb for sale. Already rooted, with or without docks. In fact when the Prime comes out like the other poster said I bet you can get a good deal. I was planning on selling mine for 300 without dock when the time comes.
Edit: Post for rooting all versions is in dev section look for "razorclaw"
3VO Sent
If you are still interested I am selling mine with keyboard and boxes for both already rooted (running Revolver) for $400 + shipping. Not a scratch on the tablet or keyboard. Just bought the keyboard a couple of weeks ago to replace a defective one.
PM if interested.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using xda premium
ifly4vamerica said:
New models can be rooted now. There is a link in the dev section somewhere. If you can wait untill the Prime comes out I will have 2 32gb for sale. Already rooted, with or without docks. In fact when the Prime comes out like the other poster said I bet you can get a good deal. I was planning on selling mine for 300 without dock when the time comes.
Edit: Post for rooting all versions is in dev section look for "razorclaw"
3VO Sent
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ooo!
Well since you got two, and the Prime comes out in a week or so, why not C.O.D. one of those babies to my location ?
$300 is a deal.
I can personally tell you the new ones can be rooted VERY EASILY using razorclaw with one click. It took less than a second... I have a B90 and I bought it this week. Rooted, custom rom, cwm, and overclocked.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using xda premium
If you buy a transformer retail you can always get a price adjustment if it does drop. Bestbuy extended their return policy for 60 days during christmas. Just an idea.
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk
Save your money and go to Best Buy and price match it with Game Stop for $299. I just bought the wife one for Christmas.
There will be a lot of these for sale as people trade up to the Prime, however I would be very cautious of the Craig's list ones advertised as new in box. They are more likely to be used with the box. The same thing happened when the current transformer replaced the Viewsonic Gtab. Once the prime comes out, you should be able to get a good used TF for $250 or so with some acc.
DonutGrunt said:
Ooo!
Well since you got two, and the Prime comes out in a week or so, why not C.O.D. one of those babies to my location ?
$300 is a deal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ha! I would take you up on that but the second one is technically the other halfs. It does however have a sweet purple and pink flower theme on it.
techsmith said:
Save your money and go to Best Buy and price match it with Game Stop for $299. I just bought the wife one for Christmas.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How do i go about price matching when gamestop is sold out online?
Would they just be like even if you wanted the gamestop one, you couldnt cause its sold out.
DonutGrunt said:
How do i go about price matching when gamestop is sold out online?
Would they just be like even if you wanted the gamestop one, you couldnt cause its sold out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, as long as it's a current advertised price they should match it, in stock or not.
Sent from my HTC Mecha
I just called the best buy in my town and they said it had to be in stock in the store in our town too. So no deal on that. Luckily I snagged one last night from bhphotovideo for 344. Hopefully they don't get too cheap any time soon. They are selling out almost everywhere though.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using XDA App
You should be able to find one for $300. I bought one (excellent condition, barely used) last week with dock for $350 and there seem to be a few at around 320 without dock. Wait a week or so, people who have it at 320+ will not end up selling them anyway and when the prime comes out they'll go in the 250-300 range pretty quickly.
Best buy models are tf101-x1 and everywhere else they are the original tf101-a1. Best buy did this to prevent price matching the device because Walmart and others sold the a1 model, good luck on price matching
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using xda premium
Just to revisit the original question for a moment, the SSD purchase might be a compelling alternative. It depends how you use the PC you would be putting it in, but they can pretty dramatically speed up a lot of tasks. Disk I/O is quite often the bottle neck in modern systems, and going from a spinning platter and arm to no moving parts could have a dramatic effect. Again though it all depends on how powerful your system is (if it can take full advantage of the IO speed gains), and what types of tasks you use it for.
Of course the flip side of that is: you may end up using your PC a LOT less if you pick up a Transformer, Prime or original. I know I do. Between my blackberry (email, instant messaging) and transformer (web surfing, google reader for rss feeds, and occasional angry birds or similar simple gaming), I barely have to use my laptop any more.
I got mine during black friday at best buy too. I was hestitant at first and wasn't sure about the rooting because of it being a newer and different model but this tablet is amazing. I love the internet, FLASH!, the apps, and the widgets. I hooked up to my tv the other day to show my roomates and they were blown away. I already rooted mine too just need to overclock it. This is is my first tablet and android device. The camera isn't that great but I did not get it for the camera. I recommend the best buy way. Buy it now and when the prime comes out you can return it to best buy and get the prime.
If I play with the prime and it seems worth it I will probably do that. However, if you want a first generation one there will probably be lots of people selling them on here. Totally worth the black friday mess and being short for rent. Also, if you use your phone as a hot spot with it it's even more amazing. There are plenty of apps to enjoy even without wi-fi and spotify or rdio for music.
I atually do use my laptop less now. Only thing I dont like is the laggyness of the keyboard strokes on this site. I am hoping overclocking will solve it. Dolphin and stock are both fast but I like dolphin the best so far. I'm falling in love with the touch gestures. Made one just for XDA
There are a couple of ways to get it for $299. Call around to the local game stops and see if they have the transformer in stock. When you called best buy you gave too much information.

[Q] Best Tablet?

I'm off to the US for easter, and have been after a tablet for a while. I was wondering what the best tablet is. Many people say the Transformer Prime is, but is that only for the keyboard? I can spend $800 or £500 so I dont really have a budget. I'd prefer android, but I'll take iOS as well.
Should I not buy one and wait?
TL;DR whats the most powerful and best quality tablet going?
Sorry if there's already a thread on this, I wanted an up to date result and I had a quick look.
iPad
u could go for an iPad or a BB Playbook.......they r better.....buh android is also good.....buh the tab procession is very slow....i wud prefer an iPad coz i hv used all......
Android: Galaxy Tab 7.7
iOS: Wait for the iPad 3
Android: ASUS Transformer Prime or if you want something cheaper ASUS Transformer, but the Prime is better and newer
iOS: Wait for the iPad 3 (which will be out in a few days)
I'd personally go for android
Also if you are a dev(or some sort of related) or wanna go deep in the system or modify/customize your OS then buy an Android Tablet since the iOS is more for businnes people
A little click to the 'Thanks!' button if I helped you
EDIT:
I'm not sure about the Transformer Prime but I guess you can find the first Transformer for less than $800
I Prefer to the samsung tab
Thanks guys, Ill press the thanks button when I'm next on my laptop, just wondering is the transformer series still worth it without getting a keyboard?
Sent from my GT-S5830 using XDA App
Good advice, I'm thinking about a tablet too, definitely Android. I have my eye on the Nexus tab in the news lately...
charlie284 said:
Thanks guys, Ill press the thanks button when I'm next on my laptop, just wondering is the transformer series still worth it without getting a keyboard?
Sent from my GT-S5830 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think that I can say something definite, but the ASUS Tablets seem to be the best ones out there. I saw the Transformer, the Galaxy Tab(both the 7" and the 10.1"), the Acer Iconia Tab A500, and the iPads(1st and 2nd).
In my opinion Best one as hardware quality(Wifi, etc.) is the iPad. iPad also wins by its incredibly strong case. You feel it as one single piece...
The Galaxy Tabs lack the quality of the case and I don't think that the hardware is good too.
The next one that leads in the case quality is the Transformer(the 1st one, not the PRIME). I'm not sure about the hardware..
The Acer Iconia Tab's case is so bad. I mean when you take it in your hand you get the feeling of holding a toy.
About the dock...
I wouldn't buy it without the keyboard since there's another battery on the dock. And it helps in putting the tablet on a table etc. e.g when you are watching a movie and you don't wanna keep the tablet in your hand
Sorry I wrote a little too much.
I hope I'm helping
That's great thanks, I think Asus is the way to go, I'm also thinking about archos for the video format support
Sent from my GT-S5830 using XDA App
The kogan range is good but so is the advent Vega which is awesome with its capacitive 10.1 inch screen and dual core 1Ghz proccessor
Hope this was helpful
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA
charlie284 said:
That's great thanks, I think Asus is the way to go, I'm also thinking about archos for the video format support
Sent from my GT-S5830 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, as far as I know you are able to use other Media Players such as MoboPlayer, Vital Player, etc... And they are both free..
You need to think carefully about what you are going to use it for. You mention video, for example, and choosing an ipad will have significant consequences* if, like me, most of your video collection is avi format gathered from here there and everywhere.
*unless you jailbreak it.
I think rather than look for the 'best tablet' - which will change from month to month, have a clear think whether you want to go down the Android or Apple route. Some questions to ask yourself:
1) What other devices I have - are you mainly PC or apple based and if the latter, are you happy with the itunes method of doing stuff? How will all these devices talk to each other?
2) What are you going to use it for?
3) What SIZE you want it to be - have a good look at the 8-9" models from Samsung - in comparsion to the ubiquitous 10" models. Sometimes bigger isn't better.
4) DEALS (check out www.hotukdeals.co.uk)with the £ so weak, prices just aren't hugely favourable in the US at the moment and several very capable tablets are being sold off with good discounts in the UK.
I will be using it to watch youtube videos, films, play games, suft the web, mostly media consumption.
I use a macbook pro, and itunes is really my only option sync wise, which Im fine with. I prefer android but think the ipad has better apps. I'd go for a large tablet as it wouldnt really leave the house.
I have owned both android and iOS products and get along with both, I rooted/jailbroke both as well
Sorry if it seems I want others to do the research but I just cant decide, the ipad seems a bit low spec'd for the price
Sent from my GT-S5830 using XDA
if you want something cheap, go for the archos G9. 1.0ghz and 1.2ghz models are cheaper, but the 1.5 ghz turbo is much faster. They just got updated to ice cream sandwich today
Shano56 said:
if you want something cheap, go for the archos G9. 1.0ghz and 1.2ghz models are cheaper, but the 1.5 ghz turbo is much faster. They just got updated to ice cream sandwich today
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was seriously considering this, there are a lot of complaints about build quality though, although ive tried it in the shop, i dont know how it'd last
Sent from my GT-S5830 using XDA
best tablet atm: Galaxy Tab 7.7
Well, it feels to me as though the new prices on the ipad2 would suit you nicely. Plenty of hardware for the money, there, i think.
PErsonally, I just can't STAND itunes and my phone is android - so for the sake of just getting to know one of them well, I stick with with google.

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