Related
Just curious, but let's say that we go to the market and find a cool new program.
Turns out, while it installs something such as a new IM client, it locks the phone up.
Is it possible? Can they change firmware from a software title? Just a random paranoid thought
Not quite sure by what you mean "locks the phone up" but if you mean make changes to the settings because you have root and left it open, yes. This has been addressed and if you have root, you should have already secured it. If not, you have 2 choices, a: realise you might not be a user in need of root, or b: go read how to secure root (with a password).
I have been an advocate of root on the G1 from the start, even while everyone was saying "users do not need root". I am recently starting to notice a lot of issues with users having root and blindly running apps they do not know about, or bricking their phones because they are running complex system commands without knowing what it is doing. Keep in mind, root = god as far as the phone is concerned. You can and probably will kill your phone if you are not careful. I would advise you obtain root, secure it and do not touch it unless you know what you are doing. This will give you the ability to use things in the future that require root while still keeping you somewhat safe.
Also, this is not directed only at the author of this post, but anyone who has posted in the last few days who is making changes they do not fully understand, running programs that require root without knowing what access they are giving it, or anyone who follows my advice and upgraded to root "just incase" but doesnt know what to do with it.
I do not want to see a massive rush of users returning "rooted" G1's to tmobile and getting refunds/exchanges and have tmobile suddenly think this is an epidemic and start really working hard to secure the phone. That would not be good for anyone, but that is where were are headed.
Technically, yes...
Just like nuuneoi's Orientation program runs as superuser without letting you know...
I don't see them being that sneaky, though... It probably would provide ground for a class-action suit if it comes from T-Mo.
how can we sue? i didn't read the fine print, but i would imagine flashing a modded version of android would break their TOS
d0nkey said:
how can we sue? i didn't read the fine print, but i would imagine flashing a modded version of android would break their TOS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm just speculating... It just seems sneaky and evil...
I assume the TOS relates to the actual "service" (haven't read it, either). They can ban me from T-Mobile, but they better not maliciously install their poop-infested code in phone.
P.S. People are gang-bang suing for the early cancellation fees, even though they all signed the contract.
npace said:
I'm just speculating... It just seems sneaky and evil...
I assume the TOS relates to the actual "service" (haven't read it, either). They can ban me from T-Mobile, but they better not maliciously install their poop-infested code in phone.
P.S. People are gang-bang suing for the early cancellation fees, even though they all signed the contract.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Um...the fact is, Google is allowed to kill any software they think is "bad". This has been public a year before the phone's release.
Now, I have downloaded the patch and installed it (to have a pop-up asking if it's ok to run root)
However, many of us are new to nix commands as I am myself. How do you assign a password to root?
momentarylapseofreason said:
Um...the fact is, Google is allowed to kill any software they think is "bad". This has been public a year before the phone's release.
Now, I have downloaded the patch and installed it (to have a pop-up asking if it's ok to run root)
However, many of us are new to nix commands as I am myself. How do you assign a password to root?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Code:
su
passwd
God mode for my phone? Yes please.
Stop with the fear tactics regarding the dangers of root access. People actually going through the trouble of figuring out how to do are aware of the risks. It will never be an issue of phones returned, because an unlocked phone return is an immediate dealbreaker, warranty void, and most people understand that.
But the desire for freedom. Maybe I have to move to another country but this lock down bullsh*t on U.S. phones in particular is a real nuisance.
They track us with the gps, FBI can listen in thru the mic even when the phone is off, they have the remote kill switch.... at least let me install the apps i want with root access for the love of Chr*st.
Give us the freedom we seek from a Linux OS.
F*cking FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
strangethingz said:
God mode for my phone? Yes please.
Stop with the fear tactics regarding the dangers of root access. People actually going through the trouble of figuring out how to do are aware of the risks. It will never be an issue of phones returned, because an unlocked phone return is an immediate dealbreaker, warranty void, and most people understand that.
But the desire for freedom. Maybe I have to move to another country but this lock down bullsh*t on U.S. phones in particular is a real nuisance.
They track us with the gps, FBI can listen in thru the mic even when the phone is off, they have the remote kill switch.... at least let me install the apps i want with root access for the love of Chr*st.
Give us the freedom we seek from a Linux OS.
F*cking FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The warranty wouldn't be void so long as you flash back to RC29 or 30 without the mods (both avail online)... just FYI
Nice to know consumers and civilians still have a trick or two left up their sleeve in this over-controlled greed filled market.
strangethingz said:
God mode for my phone? Yes please.
Stop with the fear tactics regarding the dangers of root access. People actually going through the trouble of figuring out how to do are aware of the risks. It will never be an issue of phones returned, because an unlocked phone return is an immediate dealbreaker, warranty void, and most people understand that.
But the desire for freedom. Maybe I have to move to another country but this lock down bullsh*t on U.S. phones in particular is a real nuisance.
They track us with the gps, FBI can listen in thru the mic even when the phone is off, they have the remote kill switch.... at least let me install the apps i want with root access for the love of Chr*st.
Give us the freedom we seek from a Linux OS.
F*cking FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have just shown that your post count is probably even with your "read" count. If you had been reading this and other forums you will see that lots of users are installing root, running commands they find in random posts, installing apps without knowing what they do etc... For you to come in here saying everyone knows the risks is absurd. Also, if you had read anything here, you would see that numerous users are on their "new" or "second" G1 after having bricked it somehow and returned it for a replacement. At the time being tmo doesnt seem to know how to tell if a phone has been tweaked, but they will soon.
Spend some time upping your read/post ratio and then come back with your opinions.
Dude, come on... I appreciate the typical response about reading through the massive forum before posting...
The point is... We pay a lot for these things, we are monitored and we have control switches all over the place.... when it comes to tweaks, people want
FREEEEDOOOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And you speak against Freedom?
No, I am speaking against someone who makes a post about nothing using non factual bits of information and uses "FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" and thinks that repeating that will bring him a following because its just such a cool word to use with all them purdy exclamation points!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
strangethingz said:
They track us with the gps, FBI can listen in thru the mic even when the phone is off, they have the remote kill switch.... at least let me install the apps i want with root access for the love of Chr*st.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And they steal food from your refrigerator when you're not looking!
JesusFreke said:
And they steal food from your refrigerator when you're not looking!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have no idea what you are talking about... that is the NSA, so please only speak when you are sure about your answer.
Darkrift said:
You have no idea what you are talking about... that is the NSA, so please only speak when you are sure about your answer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry! I stand corrected
JesusFreke said:
And they steal food from your refrigerator when you're not looking!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So that's where that leftover slice of pizza went... CASE CLOSED!
strangethingz said:
God mode for my phone? Yes please.
Stop with the fear tactics regarding the dangers of root access. People actually going through the trouble of figuring out how to do are aware of the risks. It will never be an issue of phones returned, because an unlocked phone return is an immediate dealbreaker, warranty void, and most people understand that.
But the desire for freedom. Maybe I have to move to another country but this lock down bullsh*t on U.S. phones in particular is a real nuisance.
They track us with the gps, FBI can listen in thru the mic even when the phone is off, they have the remote kill switch.... at least let me install the apps i want with root access for the love of Chr*st.
Give us the freedom we seek from a Linux OS.
F*cking FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They can listen in thru the mic even when the phone is off, first I've ever heard of that!!!
jashsu said:
So that's where that leftover slice of pizza went... CASE CLOSED!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Funny... I swear they like to mess with me and take something but leave something else. LOL I think I found your leftover pizza
strangethingz said:
GPeople actually going through the trouble of figuring out how to do are aware of the risks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude. Do you HONESTLY believe that? Go to the Ubuntu forums and read the new header at the top of EVERY forum about not posting malicious commands, cos too many people said 'oh, run rm -rf to fix that!' and too many people who had no idea what that did RAN IT. People don't bother to check up on what stuff does before they run it, they just go 'oooo, this will do what I want? Cool!'
Hello,
I'm involved in trying to collect information regarding Knox, the illegal destruction of private property and possibility to run unknown code and I badly
looking certain configurations to get more answers.
If someone has root, not tripped Knox and preferably SELinux set to "Enforcing", please send me a message! Your help is needed!
I was too late. The "Rules update #16" that blocked "Root de la Vega" was pushed to my phone against my will. Other got it as well.
That means they already have some form of control and disregard your configuration. What can they do more?
With an SELinux they can control your device as they wish if they configure it to hide processes that run, as of today, unknown code.
I'm an "BOFH Unix kick ass consultant" by trade. I know how nicely you can do this. "Living in a box". Oh yes.
This is about our future, the right for privacy and the right to do what we want with out own private property!
The extreme measures taken against just obtaining root are disproportionately harsh. If they succeed, others will follow.
We might end up with iNdroid in a few years. I want to prevent that. But we need more knowledge. They destroy evidence if you trip Knox.
Rooting is not illegal, but the active action of destroying someones property with indent is, whatever cause, warranty claims or not.
There will be consequences. But we need more information, and you who have a Note 3, just as me, can help. The key can be your phone.
Knox is not "just a flag". It have attached code. It sabotages your system both software and hardware. Scrambled software. Wifi permanently
damaged, to name a few. I know, from my S4, and have it verified from source. But that code is run once and then gone. Are there more E-fuses?
Dumping hardware has made at least one device totally bricked. Not even the Power button worked. It was stone-dead.
Also:
If someone has a way of obtaining it without tripping Knox please contact me. I'm willing to take the risk of tripping Knox since this is more important then
some warranty.
I've been working in this for two months now and the more I learn the more I start to question if this isn't a bad movie with Kevin Costner...
No opt-out. Enforcement of this "Enterprise" solution. On your private phone? Think! The money this must cost? You want a return of investment!
Rooted phones cost that much? I don't buy that. You have an unique certificate that binds YOU to your phone. You and your phone are bound as one.
What if 3rd-party malicious code get hands of that? Viruses exist, even on Play. But your Antivirus can't run because it can't access the parts it must have
higher right to read check your programs. I rather run a firewall and deny permissions of programs that want way too much.
A "file manager" doesn't need to read your contacts. A game doesn't need to use your camera. But you can't prevent that.
Knox prevents that. Because you can place a document in a container... I rather use my freeware AES-program that encrypt documents on the fly.
Until we know more the device should be considered as not safe. Why is Samsung stonewalling the question so many have asked?
"What is the extent of the damage made?". I think we have the right to now that, don't you? Many has tried. "Heavy damage" is so far the best we got.
So please, if you still have root and not a crippled device, please contact me. Your help is the only way I see is possible right now.
All the best,
Abs (Yes, I need to update my tag, since I have so much new)
Hi. I've root, not tripped knox and with selinux set to enforcing.
Enviado desde mi SM-N9005 mediante Tapatalk
Absolon said:
Hello,
I'm involved in trying to collect information regarding Knox, the illegal destruction of private property and possibility to run unknown code and I badly
looking certain configurations to get more answers.
...
I was too late. The "Rules update #16" that blocked "Root de la Vega" was pushed to my phone against my will.
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, if you missed the incredibly obvious checkbox in Settings / Security = Auto update security you really don't look like the right person to trust with full root access on my phone.
xclub_101 said:
Sorry, if you missed the incredibly obvious checkbox in Settings / Security = Auto update security you really don't look like the right person to trust with full root access on my phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It got pushed about the moment I turned on my phone the first time. So as I said. I missed the opportunity
But thank those who instead of making sarcastic comments, already sent a message and offered help instead. :good:
I'm sure that the large group who got their phones destroyed really value you and your opinion, Xblub
But be careful so you don't trip it. You would not believe how easy that is!
Would be sad if you also got your phone devastated by the unkindly spirits at Samsung.
Let's hope we find a solution before that happens, right?
And please, if more want to help out please mess me, there are so many who got their phones destroyed and Samsung will not stop itself.
It will only be worse. But you can help stop this while we still have a change.
Next phones will have Knox chipped and then even Xblub will be sad
/Abs
Edit: Of course I meant Xclub.
As noted, easy to make a mistake. Like wanting Xclub to write "ls" when I really meant he should run
#!/bin/bash
//usr/bin/tail -n +2 $0 | g++ -o main -x c++ - && ./main && rm main && exit
main(_){_^448&&main(-~_);putchar(--_%64?32|-~7[__TIME__-_/8%8][">'txiZ^(~z?"-48]>>";;;====~$::199"[_*2&8|_/64]/(_&2?1:8)%8&1:10);} (Please don't run it!)
Ahh @Absolon, Was wondering where you had gotten too.
To be honest, I just tripped mine soon as I got it. removed the Stock ROM and just went custom. However... What I have noticed is knox.eventsmanager runs regardless of ROM and IF KNOX is uninstalled.. So probably running /hiding somewhere in the bootloader (at a guess anyway)..
All this KNOX talk is getting complicated now, it's a 50-50 split I think with people tripping/keeping it. - Samsung have forced it upon us, and unless we custom flash (and lose warranty in parts of the world) we are screwed.
radicalisto said:
Ahh @Absolon, Was wondering where you had gotten too.
To be honest, I just tripped mine soon as I got it. removed the Stock ROM and just went custom. However... What I have noticed is knox.eventsmanager runs regardless of ROM and IF KNOX is uninstalled.. So probably running /hiding somewhere in the bootloader (at a guess anyway)..
All this KNOX talk is getting complicated now, it's a 50-50 split I think with people tripping/keeping it. - Samsung have forced it upon us, and unless we custom flash (and lose warranty in parts of the world) we are screwed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have not touched the Note 3 yet, but I tripped the S4 when they sneaked it in. My Wifi works though, Like a Us Robotics 56K modem, but well..
So what did you experience? I just got the reports from the S4.
The problem of tripping or not tripping is not if this would be a flag because it's not. It's a lot more and I have it confirmed.
But since I can't obtain root without tripping Knox on my Note 3 right now I won't do it until the holidays are over and then claim hardware warranty
and let that play itself out.
But pray tell, after you broke Knox. What did you notice? Still have that sticky bootloader? Any Wifi, gfx, other issues? Any issues with
programs that got removed or that Play stopped working?
All info is needed and I really need constructive people here. I don't need access to someones phone. But I need to collect things.
So even if you can't Android or the SEL that I'm after I can guide through. So let's stop this before we have it in a nice chip next year?
Doesn't that sound like a really good plan?
/Absie
Absolon said:
I have not touched the Note 3 yet, but I tripped the S4 when they sneaked it in. My Wifi works though, Like a Us Robotics 56K modem, but well..
So what did you experience? I just got the reports from the S4.
The problem of tripping or not tripping is not if this would be a flag because it's not. It's a lot more and I have it confirmed.
But since I can't obtain root without tripping Knox on my Note 3 right now I won't do it until the holidays are over and then claim hardware warranty
and let that play itself out.
But pray tell, after you broke Knox. What did you notice? Still have that sticky bootloader? Any Wifi, gfx, other issues? Any issues with
programs that got removed or that Play stopped working?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think you can tell the difference once Knox is tripped. The only obvious thing that sticks out is you have more RAM/HDD available and the phone feels slightly faster. As for Play and Apps not working, I am yet to see any issues (only play issues I have ever had have been No connection, when there clearly is one. After a few refreshes it loads up. Now bear in mind, My connection isn't weak, I've been on the internet via the browser or on an app when I have switched to Play and experienced this) - Not to mention a stupid notification yapping at us telling us we are wrong to use something on a phone we legally own.
Absolon said:
All info is needed and I really need constructive people here. I don't need access to someones phone. But I need to collect things.
So even if you can't Android or the SEL that I'm after I can guide through. So let's stop this before we have it in a nice chip next year?
Doesn't that sound like a really good plan?
/Absie
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Aww I dread to even think what Samsung will enforce on us next time. There should be an option when you purchase the phone, if you're gonna use it for corporate use, then have KNOX installed via a code they print out. - But to us the everyday user. All it's doing is
*Taking up space on OUR phones
*Running cheekily in the BG
*As you stated, banning access to certain parts of the phone, which IF exploited, our AV's etc cannot reach.
To say we (well most of us) live in a free world, when it comes to us being consumers... they like to shaft us several times over.
Absolon said:
If someone has root, not tripped Knox and preferably SELinux set to "Enforcing", please send me a message! Your help is needed!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I feel your frustration. I would much rather an open hardware platform with none of this KNOX business. It's starting to get ridiculous...
It sounds like you've already got help, however I too have an un-tripped KNOX, w/ SELinux enforcing and would be happy to help out.
lispnik said:
I feel your frustration. I would much rather an open hardware platform with none of this KNOX business. It's starting to get ridiculous...
It sounds like you've already got help, however I too have an un-tripped KNOX, w/ SELinux enforcing and would be happy to help out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not all have the same configurations and not all have the same level of knowledge. But that is not a problem.
As I said. I don't want into your phone, I want you to collect info. So I gladly take any help I can get. Send me a private message.
Because I need as many as possible to verify things. Don't be shy! I don't bite. That hard
Destruction of data INSIDE the knox container after gaining root (which is a vulnerability in itself) is not data manipulation of any sort.
Tripping the counter will just void your warranty (as you would expect anyway!) and disable the knox container completely - it will NOT cause any other issue whatsoever to your device.
The System Security Policy service resets with a factory reset (so you can now go to the security tab and disable auto update).
Security Policy blocks known vulnerabilities that can give access to unauthorised root permissions and potential malware attacks.
Knox as a container can be opted out by uninstalling the knox application.
Knox as a counter is an integrated security measure and in no way should you ever be able to turn it off.
Security Policy is an active security system and you should not have the option to turn it off - you can prevent updates to the policy however.
Tripping the counter will not cause any hardware/software damage (!! An E-FUSE triggering is not damage, it's doing the job it is designed to do in case of compromising the system !!) - it will prevent you from using the knox container which is no longer safe after root and prevent you from getting warranty because you void it by rooting since the middle ages anyway - WiFi issues, dead devices and whatnot are not related in any way as most N3 users here are already using the device with knox tripped.
If you want root privileges you automatically lose your warranty and access to knox, nothing more nothing less.
PS: Update 16 blocked kingoapproot and vroot (which are technically malware), not root de la vega, the new bootloader blocked root de la vega because it's an exploit to gain root.
Absolon said:
...
The problem of tripping or not tripping is not if this would be a flag because it's not. It's a lot more and I have it confirmed.
But since I can't obtain root without tripping Knox on my Note 3 right now I won't do it until the holidays are over and then claim hardware warranty
and let that play itself out.
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While the first line falls close to what a conspiracy theorist would say the second one is an interesting point where more attention would be useful.
It can be argued that in the context of EU law the HARDWARE warranty is different than the SOFTWARE warranty, and that a manufacturer can not evade providing the first.
The thing is - to the best of my knowledge Samsung has never (so far) denied HARDWARE warranty based on knox flag status - so in that regard you might have a starting point in case you want to set some precedent - and I would LOVE such a precedent to be set (in a way that protects the consumer)!
Other than that all the stuff on how knox is used by Samsung to spy on you and follow your every move is really not helping anybody's cause (except maybe Samsung's).
My final point on this matter is that people with a LOT more technical knowledge on the subject than Absolon here (people like Chainfire or AndreiLux and plenty other) have commented on this, so people should really learn more about the subject before starting the wrong crusade born out of conspiracy theories. Don't get me wrong - I WANT my consumer freedom, but I would also like that when legal precedents are set on the subject to have them set the right way, for the right reasons and with the right evidence (which will not be destroyed in court by Samsung lawyers in a day or less).
I'm following a good advice and removing any further comments.
I really want to work in a constructive manner and I do not with to petty fight. So please.
If anyone else want to help explore, please message me. We are on different levels of knowledge but that is all what XDA is about. To learn and to help!
All the best,
Abs
If I trip KNOX and my phone will need a repair will this work?
[INFO][EU] Rooting and Flashing don't void the warranty
EdisDee said:
If I trip KNOX and my phone will need a repair will this work?
[INFO][EU] Rooting and Flashing don't void the warranty
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As said, there are different views. Skander has one experience and that can be for one version.
For the I9505 the Knox did cause damage to the hardware and I did collect reports of findings and the majority was Wifi,
If this is the same for Note 3 I don't know. I write that I know, and what I think. We have free speech and I can have my thoughts and so can others.
It's rudeness and bluntness that should be avoided and I know that irony sometimes doesn't do as well on paper as in real life, but believe me, irony is the only thing that keeps me alive now days ;P
So when turning on a GN3 for the first time immediately disable updates before you DL the bad firmware/bootloaders?
Edbert said:
So when turning on a GN3 for the first time immediately disable updates before you DL the bad firmware/bootloaders?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On ANY MODERN PHONE (if possible - for instance you will not be able to do that on any iphone) you should:
- start the phone once without any SIM card and without entering/activating any form of WiFi - this will guarantee that your phone will not connect first to the Internet
- check/set any relevant settings regarding security and software updates - for instance on Note 3 those are two separate settings, and the security one seems to be activated "by default"; currently the firmware update is not really activated "by default" since it WILL ask you pick a country and agree to some EULA
- either way, once you have disabled things (I also disable mobile data at this point) you can then power-off and insert your SIM, then enable WiFi and do whatever else you want to do.
I am not saying that it is "normal" to be this way, but since it is then you better be prepared for it!
Tripping knox won't break your WiFi or anything on the Note 3.
If you break it yourself by messing with it that's another thing.
Do keep in mind that your warranty is void by rooting but this depends on the seller or carrier.
Skander1998 said:
Tripping knox won't break your WiFi or anything on the Note 3.
If you break it yourself by messing with it that's another thing.
Do keep in mind that your warranty is void by rooting but this depends on the seller or carrier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Abit ridiculous though. Why they would want to avoid advance users like us to root our phones? Knox was implemented for corporate user or uses. But they jolly well know most of their customers are average users which are not completely working on highest intel in any agencies which require knox to be used. Their marketing strategy failed to the max. Focusing knox on both the corporate users and normal users. Secondly knox to them is both a security measures and a so called warranty tracker. By warranty rooting as does damage your phone software but not hardware unless extreme cases whereby people oc'd their phone to be rocket-ed out of their pockets. Hmm. Rarely i've heard root causes phone to be burnt or caused a crack to the screen or buttons alignment.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
---------- Post added at 05:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:39 AM ----------
MxFadzil92 said:
Abit ridiculous though. Why they would want to avoid advance users like us to root our phones? Knox was implemented for corporate user or uses. But they jolly well know most of their customers are average users which are not completely working on highest intel in any agencies which require knox to be used. Their marketing strategy failed to the max. Focusing knox on both the corporate users and normal users. Secondly knox to them is both a security measures and a so called warranty tracker. By warranty rooting does damage your phone software changing of roms baseband kernel etc but still baseband all those stuff are still needed by the original manufacturer release not by cyanogemod for example new baseband are aquired by new tw rom new builds except for kernels which are aquired by githubs made by respective developers... But not hardware unless extreme cases whereby people oc'd their phone to be rocket-ed out of their pockets. Hmm. Rarely i've heard root causes phone to be burnt or caused a crack to the screen or buttons alignment. Rooting are the only way for us to try a new android platform build release by google... To wait for manufacturer release maaan could be months down the road. Sigh.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
MxFadzil92 said:
.too long.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They do not stop you from rooting, they just re-affirm the million year old knowledge that rooting voids your warranty!
Bricking smartphones from rooting is very common, so does flashing kernels and whatnot, flashing kernels can actually allow someone to cause actual hardware damage to antennas, CPU's and GPU's and even kill the screen (in the note 2 for example, flashing an s3 recovery will burn the digitizer permanently)
Rooting also invalidates Knox's security completely, and any data there should be protected so they make it self destruct (the container) when rooted and the flag is there so after unrooting (and potentially having a still infected system) no one can activate a container anymore on the Smartphone.
This has side effects like the inability to root without detection, but the regular users you are talking about will not root their devices and so is 90+% of the users.
Knox is not an issue and nothing new, flashing anything from 2010 on any device voids your warranty, now it voids it with a permanent marker so you can't fool them and technically illegally get a repair from a broken warranty.
You break warranty terms even one of them, you don't get it.
xclub_101 said:
On ANY MODERN PHONE (if possible - for instance you will not be able to do that on any iphone) you should:
- start the phone once without any SIM card and without entering/activating any form of WiFi - this will guarantee that your phone will not connect first to the Internet
- check/set any relevant settings regarding security and software updates - for instance on Note 3 those are two separate settings, and the security one seems to be activated "by default"; currently the firmware update is not really activated "by default" since it WILL ask you pick a country and agree to some EULA
- either way, once you have disabled things (I also disable mobile data at this point) you can then power-off and insert your SIM, then enable WiFi and do whatever else you want to do.
I am not saying that it is "normal" to be this way, but since it is then you better be prepared for it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And with a company that does fair play you don't have to worry that they push something you don't want on your phone.
And they do. Don't be too sure that just because you turned your settings off that it protects you, because if you read through posts you will see that people got updates pushed, disregarding whatever setting you had. And that is certainly not fair play
But to answer your question. First. Just dropping names here and there doesn't do it. To ride on someones "fame" to gain more authority and merit to your post is bad rhetoric.
You should be able to do that on your own.
Yes, there are many who are way better then me, but the nice thing is that when you asked them, they know they once been there themselves and don't feel the need to project personal problems and anger on some random person they never met.
Just that we passed the 100 post mark and XDA automatically put a "senoir" next to the name means nothing more then we are good at bull****ting online,
Doesn't tell if you are 1337 or a n00b. Even if you post 10000 post doesn't mean that you have any deeper understanding.
But new users don't know that, and treating others without respect scares them away. Makes them afraid to ask. Who wants a snotty answer back on their first post?
So please. Make this a constructive place. If you are angry I recommend Reddit/Imgur/Flashback. There you can project whatever you want or need.
I don't know how to code a single line in Java!
But I'm awesome in C64 Basic!! And I managed to write "Hello World" in BF!
And I know several Asm's and I coded mostly in C (and C++ when it was still readable) and did my VHDL/Erlang-hell period (and I tested like 20++ other languages, some enforced during my master but some just for fun. I can write "Hello World!" in Sun's start eeprom!) but that was looong time ago. So I'm "rusty". Old. There are so many nifty new things. But then. Mostly I use something invented 200 years ago - A stethoscope. But there is a new COOL one! BT! With noise reduction and spectrum analysis! No more things that hurt in my ears! For the little sum of 1500 € it's yours!..... Bleh.
But I'm not ashamed of that! I can learn if I want. XDA is a great place for that. Even have their own Android University!
I'm fairly good with Unix. Even made money of it. For over 8 years. And the good with that is that some things we still use today haven't changed since 1973!
And I worked some with hardware but I need a new JTAG. Know a good one? So many to choose and I don't know the quality or what is needed?
Do the board even have pins or do you have to weld them? I hate welding!
You say conspiracy. I say concern and worry.
Why are people starting to get worried?
It's not as much as conspiracy then more why they are behaving like they do?
The fact is simple - the unknown
The word SELinux has come to more people now since it's mandatory in 4.3. The "moblie magazines", M3, Android** talks about the "news in 4.3".
But what is SELInux?
So people turn to the trusty Wikipedia for answers: Wikipedia - SELinux
And the first lines they see are
Security-Enhanced Linux (SELinux) is a Linux kernel security module that provides the mechanism for supporting access control security
policies, including United States Department of Defense-style mandatory access controls (MAC).
SELinux is a set of kernel modifications and user-space tools that can be added to various Linux distributions. Its architecture strives to
separate enforcement of security decisions from the security policy itself and streamlines the volume of software charged with security
policy enforcement.[1][2]
The key concepts underlying SELinux can be traced to several earlier projects by the United States National Security Agency.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is what people see!!
I can bet some even read "police" and not "policies". The see all this and that SCARES THEM.
With the recent scandals in mind of NSA hacking everything including the Germans Chancellors phone, an alley??
And here, the American spy-outpost towards Sovjet/Russia since 1947. We have also a 3-letter agency. And not many weeks ago there where front pages that they shared the databases with each other. So is that so hard to understand?
So to get from the unknowns they start to look
So you turn to Samsung for answers, And they treat you like cattle. And they stonewall you? No transparency whatsoever.
They reminds me of Nokia when they also went into "grandiose mode" and also through they could do whatever they please because of their total dominance. But they forgot one thing. The consumers got more and more unhappy. And they was their sole income. And when get got that in their heads it was too late. What are they now? Decimated to nothing. Trying desperately with a yet another attempt by Microsoft that is deemed to fail. How many times have Microsoft tried to get in on the hand-held market? I lost count.
And then they start to Google. XDA turns up like the first thing. Find their phone and see "Knox?"
(SELinux==NSA) --> Enterprise solution? On my private phone? Encryption? Damage? Container? What do I need THAT for?
"I don't want THAT on my phone! NSA. Enterprise. Container? Where is the opt out? There are none? I was NOT informed of this!"
That is what I find that worrying and I share that with many others.
Yes, some say it's just a flag. Not on S4. Look how many got problem with Wifi. I got them as well. And I knew when I broke my Knox.
Since SS goes all this trouble to hinder you to gain root access that they even had an E-fuse that does cause hardware damage.
To prevent "Triangle Away"? As your friend if he believes it's because of that?
I don't have to use SELinux to run code past your nose, root or not, but SELinux does it so much easier, since you can define it do hide processes from normal users and it has the possibility to run 3rd-party code. You know that, right?
Since we don't know what is run on the phone you can't be sure it's not something with some intent? So why not investigate it? What is going on in the phone?
Aren't you curious? I am. I would love to be able to root? Can I after #16 on MJ7?
But sure ask them, please. Give it a try
Ask them for example why Wifi stopped working after Knox was tripped on your S4?
Ask them what the extent of the damage they have done?
Ask them where this "Efuse data" is, on what address-range so you can avoid it? Data for a flag? Wasn't that just burned in?
Ask them why you can't update with Kies anymore? Wasn't that just a flag?
Ask them anything.
And I'm sure you will get a message back (if you get any) from "Steve". The poor overworked guy that serves the whole world and he always seems to write the same? We compared. He sits and write the same text over and over? "Sorry, we can't divulge this information at the moment".
Poor Steve!
Come back to the mother-continent! I promise, we've stopped flogging, guillotine, quartering and we changed the stake for a steak!
We have much more fun! 6 weeks of full paid vacation. Here in Sweden we have Polar bears! While we sit in our igloos and make watches.
And we have better beer as well!
If you see turning of a setting as a merit I think you should add that to your CV (and I was not alone in this).
I did as 99% of all do. Unpack the phone. Skip the instruction. Put in the sim and the sd-card and then turn it on.
BAM! I don't even think I had the time to enter my Gmail?
But you didn't. Great!
Here your knowledge would be useful! Help your fellow XDA members. In the spirit of XDA!
Can you dump the phone? Not block-wise but by reading the whole contact of the eeproms?
Can you compare your fstab and it sizes? Do they correspond to the space you have? If you dump them and compare it to the first, Do the differ much is size (a bit is natural)?
Can you use parted and list the partitions? Are all mounted? What rights do they have? Can you read them all?
The security policies in /system. What do they contain? See anything strange?
Can you compare what processes you see as a user and root?
Can you list the rules loaded in the kernel? MAC? (I think you need to compile the commands for it or get it from some Arm dist, they are not included)
Strace some processes that you don't recognize?
The kcryptd? What do they work against?
What files are open and locked? What does the stat say?
See kvm? Or are you in a kvm?
Here you can actually ACT and DO something constructive and concrete or is this just, as from my compressor, high pressured air comming from your side?
Time will tell I guess.
For the others that have messaged me: A BIG BIG THANK YOU!
And no, I don't have enough volunteers, if you do have this configuration, mess me. Or test sometime from test list. The dumping should be used by experienced users but you can do a lot on that list and you can zip and sent me some files. Rules, Pipe out the process lists.
I don't care how much you can or can't. Ask away! We started at the beginning somewhere and I will do my best, ask around, and TOGETHER, we might get some result, because we want to DO something and maybe we CAN help right? Either we find something or we don't. If we are sure and can say "The system seems clean". That would calm a LOT people down. Including me.
/Abs
And with this I won't go into more arguments about this. It's enough. I saw this as an excellent solution to see and check. Not to argue.
I already lost too much time on bla bla bla. I want to spend the time I have on things that matter. My friends that have their phones destroyed.
Use the list or make another! All seem to have their own experiences/views. Samsung must love this division.
Just DO something! Like in all research: Stipulate, challenge, prove, disprove, confirm, dismiss. Start over.
If you need to vent, you can PM me as well, Xblub.
Android is supposed to be open, customizable and free, vs iOS. That's why I'm making the switch (plus I couldn't stand the screen size of iPhone).
But now I realize Samsung is behaving like Apple:
- Knox highly discourages (prevents) rooting, just like Apple tries to prevent jailbreaks
- Firmware can't be downgraded, just like on iOS too
Part 1 is still acceptable under the pretext of corporate security, especially since end users generally have no issues getting warranty even with Knox tripped.
But part 2 is simply inconceivable IMO. No downgrading is just ridiculous. It's way worse than part 1 because at least users can choose to void warranty and ignore Knox, but part 2 is maintaining an iron control.
That is the really stupid bit. I have been upgrading, downgrading when I wanted to since the galaxy s days and now this not being able to downgrade really ppppppeeee me off. Didn't care about Knox and tripped it.... But...?... Let's set what's out there come September when my contract runs out
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
When I read threads on how which firmware versions are rootable (without tripping knox) and which aren't, they remind me of apple blogs posting about which iOS versions are jailbreak safe.
Can't believe I'm still gonna buy a note 3!
fterh said:
When I read threads on how which firmware versions are rootable (without tripping knox) and which aren't, they remind me of apple blogs posting about which iOS versions are jailbreak safe.
Can't believe I'm still gonna buy a note 3!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I get it. The hardware is still a good value, but I'll probably look elsewhere in the future.
These companies get too big and start to dictate what the user wants instead of listening... And when they are sitting pretty on top they tend to stop developing new innovations because "They are the best" and then the item tends to stagnate with VERY little actual developement thrown in. Anything new is a kneejerk reaction to the next up and comer for king of the heap....
They will still say it is for the best of the user but in reality its because they're too damn lazy to work. Then comes the copyright everything attitudeand the litigation and more effort is spent suing others for copyright einfingement than making the latest and greatest, what was Apple"s big thing a while back, oh yeah, lets make it white....
Works well for them and most users who have a hard time working out which end to speak in but not for those who actually want to own, use and control what their device actually does....
Take a lil bit, bit by bit til theres nothing less
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
It's not just Samsung others are going the same route, LG for instance says it got something similar to KNOX in the pipeline, HTC makes it difficult as possible to root their phones, Sony is also going to follow a similar path to Samsung & LG as they all want the corp market to buy their smartphones and feel safe, sod the general consumer that not interested in any of this.
The option in the near future if you want to tinker without tripping something or blowing an efuse is to buy a Nexus.
Its also because of the data breach that chinese and NSA are doing. They want our phones and its data to be safe. Not like modified system files with backdoors and trojans. So its for our own safety. Yes u can always change the layouts, launchers and other stuff. But changing kernel and rooting devices to use system procedures. These are just for developers and those who actually know abt stuff. Not for the common man.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda app-developers app
Because Samsung need sale by millions on US like Apple but must be very Secured:
Quote from another post:
...The Knox Bootloader that is the first from a new type of bootloaders, block and not permit many things.
To understand what is the Knox and is bootloader and kernel read this:
https://www.samsungknox.com/en/overview/technical-details See also the video How to Use on it...
On the first attachment we see at left the usual Android, at right we see the Android whit the Samsung Security System Knox in white and the usual until now in blue. Whit this System people can have like two phones on one. A personal whit his own appl and a second secured to work on Enterprises and Governments and others.
The Knox Bootloader protect the secured part and not permit the flashing by Odin some files that it consider not secured like the oldest bootloaders. Then the Knox Warranty Void: 0x0 is first of all the Security System Knox secured. 0x1 is not secured.
For example I quote this from that doc/link:
Samsung KNOX offers a multi-faceted security solution rooted in the tamper-resistant device hardware, through the Linux kernel and Android operating system. The first line of defense against malicious attacks, Samsung KNOX is currently approved to run on US Department of Defense networks. (If flag 0x0, my opinion).
fterh said:
Android is supposed to be open, customizable and free, vs iOS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And there's your problem.
Android is open, customizable, and free - at source code level. However, individual implementations (such as Samsung's Touchwiz) have so such requirement to be so.
People like us, who like to hack around with our phones, are not the market that Samsung is aiming for. The vast, vast majority of Samsung Android users are never going to root their phone, manually upgrade/downgrade their firmware via Odin, or install custom ROMs. These users are *never* going to even thing about tripping Knox, let alone do anything that might trip it.
To be fair, Samsung are not alone in this - pretty much all major phone vendors are doing similar. Someone works out how to get S-OFF on the HTC One, and HTC release a patch to prevent it.
Going forward, I see a time coming where if you want to have complete control over your device, you will have to buy a developer edition.
Regards,
Dave
Really? Another thread to whine about Knox?
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
ultramag69 said:
These companies get too big and start to dictate what the user wants instead of listening... And when they are sitting pretty on top they tend to stop developing new innovations because "They are the best" and then the item tends to stagnate with VERY little actual developement thrown in. Anything new is a kneejerk reaction to the next up and comer for king of the heap....
They will still say it is for the best of the user but in reality its because they're too damn lazy to work. Then comes the copyright everything attitudeand the litigation and more effort is spent suing others for copyright einfingement than making the latest and greatest, what was Apple"s big thing a while back, oh yeah, lets make it white....
Works well for them and most users who have a hard time working out which end to speak in but not for those who actually want to own, use and control what their device actually does....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This post basically nails all the reasons in one fell swoop..
And then they are forcing to use original accessories which is really really stupid of Samsung.
Question: Why is Samsung acting like Apple?
Answer: Because Apple is the most successful company in the world.
Do you really need another reason?
aydc said:
Question: Why is Samsung acting like Apple?
Answer: Because Apple is the most successful company in the world.
Do you really need another reason?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
C'mon!!
OK. I've had rooted and hacked everyphohe I've had.. Since Nokia monocromatic days, Sony Ericsson devices and now android... I've used almost every custom ROM.. Applied hundreds of modifications, etc, etc... Trust me. Its funny how ppl complain about software and this Knox thing... Android continues to be on top of iOS for many many reasons... Many many reasons!!
I personally like to root .. Of course but with power comes disorder.. Yes maybe cosmetic custom is one of the reasons for rooting..and its fun. But as it comes with plenty of features so it comes with problems never experienced on stock.. Like freezes, restarts,etc, etc.. U know what am talking about.. Most of us have chosen the Gnote 3 for its innumerable capacities over almost every device on the market. It is a beast. No doubt. For me I haven't seen yet any modification or feature that make me wanna root my note.. It is a beast as it is now. Am not running KK.. Uh uh.. I'll wait for a more completed version... I have more than 15 years using cellphones and customizing them.. And now it seems that companies are getting to know what customers need in their devices .. That's why rooting will no longer be necessary.. Why don't you sit and think about this? I've root my Sgs2 and could have the multi window feature when it came out.. And the list goes and goes.. Arent you able to see we are going to another place now with stock phones?? Actually CM will have its on device sponsored by Google itself !!! See for example the multiple features of the moto x ... It is like R2D2 haha.. Personally I'm happy with the nowadays devices..let s see what's next...
Sent from my SM-N9005 using xda app-developers app
At least Samsung will not shut down your phone and force update, like Crapple does, on Samsung at least you can disable updates. And blame other users as well for this lockdowns: how many people brick their phones when modding and then at least try to claim warranty repairs or exchange? I don't have to look far, my good friend rooted his Note3 and this made his Gear stop working. Couldn't fix it, so he took it to service center and strangely enough they did fix it for free (he may have unrooted first, I don't know), by bringing all to stock and he is a hacker, perfectly capable of figuring it out, just didn't want to bother I guess. And yes, because Crapple is so successful, many companies will follow suit, so blame all Crapple users as well. If Crapple was a total failure, no one would imitate them.
pete4k said:
At least Samsung will not shut down your phone and force update, like Crapple does, on Samsung at least you can disable updates. And blame other users as well for this lockdowns: how many people brick their phones when modding and then at least try to claim warranty repairs or exchange? I don't have to look far, my good friend rooted his Note3 and this made his Gear stop working. Couldn't fix it, so he took it to service center and strangely enough they did fix it for free (he may have unrooted first, I don't know), by bringing all to stock and he is a hacker, perfectly capable of figuring it out, just didn't want to bother I guess. And yes, because Crapple is so successful, many companies will follow suit, so blame all Crapple users as well. If Crapple was a total failure, no one would imitate them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Soon change in a few years. You'll see Samsung become more and more like Apple in time.
Samsung used to be just another Korean electronics company, like what LG is today. Then they started copying Apple. The more they copied Apple, the more successful they became. It's this simple. Believe it. If you do what successful people do, you become successful. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it doesn't work.
aydc said:
Samsung used to be just another Korean electronics company, like what LG is today. Then they started copying Apple. The more they copied Apple, the more successful they became. It's this simple. Believe it. If you do what successful people do, you become successful. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it doesn't work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just like the sales of apple is now falling I believe it will also happen to samsung.
Another thing not related to your comment since they've stopped allot people from rooting and developing due to the warranty issues. Development is Damn slow now. Like they did with gokhanmoral (think thats how you spell it all credits to him) with the s2 they had cherry picked from his kernel tree to implement into the stock to make stock run even smoother. Now there's only really one kernel in development for the international model compared to what previous phones had where there were quite a range.
What's the point of having really high end specs if you can't really exploit them? and sticking to something which much lower and play 'safe'.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using xda app-developers app
Deleted...
Leaving Verizon.
Sharpie603 said:
Recently Verizon has shown their true colors. They do NOT want to give us control of a device that we bought and paid for. (That's like buying a radio that only plays Country).
In my eyes. If we pay you monthly then why do you care what we do with our device? We own it right?
However, after days of researching and very knowledgeable co-workers..... The solution is here.
ODIN 3.10. That's Correct. ODIN 3.10 has the ability to look past the locked bootloader and grant access to roll back. This was not made to be public but (Thank GOD) was leaked on Aug 26th.
You can download ODIN 3.10 here: http://www.theandroidsoul.com/download/download-odin-3-10-6/
I have not yet tried to root after rolling back to the BOA8 Kernel. Anyone want to test this out and let me know if you were able to root after downgrading?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you were able to downgrade from OG5 to OA8, just by using the 3.10 version of ODIN? Has anybody else tried this yet?
scadilla said:
So you were able to downgrade from OG5 to OA8, just by using the 3.10 version of ODIN? Has anybody else tried this yet?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just the Kernel, not the firmware. Which in reality.... Serves no purpose.... The bootloader still remains locked and prevents from downgrading the firmware. However, this method works for downgrading kernels...
I'm still looking into ways to obtain root with a downgraded kernel. Not saying it's possible, but I'm not giving up just yet.
Sharpie603 said:
Just the Kernel, not the firmware. Which in reality.... Serves no purpose.... The bootloader still remains locked and prevents from downgrading the firmware. However, this method works for downgrading kernels...
I'm still looking into ways to obtain root with a downgraded kernel. Not saying it's possible, but I'm not giving up just yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm definitely following this thread!!! Thanks for the info Sharpie603!!! Man... I really hope you're successful!!! I'm ROOTing for you! (Pun intended! Damn I'm funny! No?!?! Anyone???) LOL
Sharpie603 said:
Just the Kernel, not the firmware. Which in reality.... Serves no purpose.... The bootloader still remains locked and prevents from downgrading the firmware. However, this method works for downgrading kernels...
I'm still looking into ways to obtain root with a downgraded kernel. Not saying it's possible, but I'm not giving up just yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, OK, that makes sense so the thinking is if you are on OG5 with the locked bootloader that you could downgrade the kernel and then root. I'll be following closely as well.
scadilla said:
Ah, OK, that makes sense so the thinking is if you are on OG5 with the locked bootloader that you could downgrade the kernel and then root. I'll be following closely as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not looking very promising.
Can you downgrade APNHLOS?
Terribly misleading title. OE1 and OG5 didn't do anything about locking the kernel, they were bootloader locks. As you said, unless you can downgrade which you can't. The only way this would be useful is if we could get root by only downgrading the kernel, which we cannot. We could access safestrap if we HAD root access, because we could flash the NI2 kernel to get access, but no root = no safestrap.
I don't think you made a discovery, I think you just came across what wasn't stated bluntly, simply because it wasn't necessary information to tell people. As for your quest to find a way to root.... I'm just going to say, have fun.
In regards to the OP's statement - Verizon could care less about the rooting community and allowing you to do what you want with your "owned" devices. Verizon and AT&T locked the phones down tight as they should because this is a portable personal computer with all your financial information being transferred back and forth. Tightening the security of the phone against hackers trying to steal all your information and identity had the unfortunate side effect of making root near impossible currently. The device performs exactly as advertised on the box and in the specifications. Your analogy of a radio stuck on country is a poor one. Think more like you bought a car and it will not go 200 miles an hour. There is nothing preventing you from purchasing a car that can, or replacing the engine to do so which would have other downfalls such as gas mileage going to crap. In the same analogy you can purchase a T-Mobile motherboard, swap it out, be able to root, but not get certain LTE bands. Verizon has not targeted you at all...you can blame the hackers constantly trying to get information off the phones. Verizon and AT&T took steps to try to prevent that and of course increase profits by being rated the most secure phones out there. Verizon never gave you the keys to root...ever! So they are not keeping this info from you. Just like every device that took a little time to find root, it is up to you and the developers to find away around it.
This is the same as saying Acme safe company is trying to keep you from being rich because they made their safes more secure.
Spartan117H3 said:
Terribly misleading title. OE1 and OG5 didn't do anything about locking the kernel, they were bootloader locks. As you said, unless you can downgrade which you can't. The only way this would be useful is if we could get root by only downgrading the kernel, which we cannot. We could access safestrap if we HAD root access, because we could flash the NI2 kernel to get access, but no root = no safestrap.
I don't think you made a discovery, I think you just came across what wasn't stated bluntly, simply because it wasn't necessary information to tell people. As for your quest to find a way to root.... I'm just going to say, have fun.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The title is not misleading at all. It does exactly what I described. Gives you the ability to downgrade the Kernel. and the Kernel only. I clearly mentioned this in post #3 that this still leaves the bootloader locked. then in later posts went on to mention that it looks like we are still SOL. Take it how you want, sorry for actively trying to find a solution...
KennyG123 said:
In regards to the OP's statement - Verizon could care less about the rooting community and allowing you to do what you want with your "owned" devices. Verizon and AT&T locked the phones down tight as they should because this is a portable personal computer with all your financial information being transferred back and forth. Tightening the security of the phone against hackers trying to steal all your information and identity had the unfortunate side effect of making root near impossible currently. The device performs exactly as advertised on the box and in the specifications. Your analogy of a radio stuck on country is a poor one. Think more like you bought a car and it will not go 200 miles an hour. There is nothing preventing you from purchasing a car that can, or replacing the engine to do so which would have other downfalls such as gas mileage going to crap. In the same analogy you can purchase a T-Mobile motherboard, swap it out, be able to root, but not get certain LTE bands. Verizon has not targeted you at all...you can blame the hackers constantly trying to get information off the phones. Verizon and AT&T took steps to try to prevent that and of course increase profits by being rated the most secure phones out there. Verizon never gave you the keys to root...ever! So they are not keeping this info from you. Just like every device that took a little time to find root, it is up to you and the developers to find away around it.
This is the same as saying Acme safe company is trying to keep you from being rich because they made their safes more secure.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not worried about my phone being hacked. I have nothing to hide. I do not bank online or make purchases online. If there is fraudulent activity on my bank account, my credit union will inform me. This is besides the fact. I could care less if I made a "bad" analogy. I'm not sitting here thinking "Hmmm I wonder if anyone will have a problem with this statement" when writing up a comment. Your paragraph is nothing but slander "Something XDA strongly discourages". A simple "I don't think this will work, and here's why" would of been suffice.
On a side note. I'm leaving Verizon so you won't have to worry about me trying to find root and help you guys out anymore.
Sharpie603 said:
The title is not misleading at all. It does exactly what I described. Gives you the ability to downgrade the Kernel. and the Kernel only. I clearly mentioned this in post #3 that this still leaves the bootloader locked. then in later posts went on to mention that it looks like we are still SOL. Take it how you want, sorry for actively trying to find a solution...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is misleading because you mark it as solved as if it was a puzzle that nobody else can figured out, like you had new information to provide. If I'm not mistaken, the kernel was never locked, and you can use any Odin to push a different kernel. It was never a question if the kernel was locked. So you didn't do anything except state what was redundant. The people who confirm that the bootloader is locked say so because it means you can't downgrade. They didn't say you can still downgrade the kernel because it's absolutely meaningless. That's like saying, the bootloader is locked, but you can still Odin and flash any file you want even if it doesn't work.
There are countless people like you in other threads who claim they're trying to find a way to root. Neither you nor I are smart enough to come up with an exploit, as I have detailed countless times before. So why don't we leave that up to the developers?
Sharpie603 said:
I'm not worried about my phone being hacked. I have nothing to hide. I do not bank online or make purchases online. If there is fraudulent activity on my bank account, my credit union will inform me. This is besides the fact. I could care less if I made a "bad" analogy. I'm not sitting here thinking "Hmmm I wonder if anyone will have a problem with this statement" when writing up a comment. Your paragraph is nothing but slander "Something XDA strongly discourages". A simple "I don't think this will work, and here's why" would of been suffice.
On a side note. I'm leaving Verizon so you won't have to worry about me trying to find root and help you guys out anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It doesn't matter if you don't care yourself, because you are not everyone. You are a single person. If you were everyone, obviously Verizon wouldn't make money off you, and wouldn't secure their phones. But this is flawed reasoning yet again.
A bad analogy shows you have flawed reasoning. It doesn't matter if you care or not, you don't have a problem with stating things that don't make sense, then by all means, continue (which I don't even have to say, because you do indeed continue).
Slander? Are you serious? You acknowledge the reason for his post, which claims you have a bad analogy, and explains why Verizon does what it does. Then you make an insane, baseless claim that says xda discourages root. Yet XDA was where the original root method was released in detail, with the newsworthy 18k bouty.
Why does he need to explain why it wouldn't work, when you yourself have already done that? It's the same when you responded to me. You answer your own question but then argue against people when they confirm with your latter findings that it doesn't work?
I don't understand why people like you are so happy to see 1 posters support you, but then immediately get hostile when anyone with any knowledge comes in to speak. You running from Verizon doesn't solve any problems and shows you weren't invested to begin with, which is fine, since you wouldn't have accomplished anything anyway. Unless you're claiming to be smarter than those who found the original root.
You want to know why it won't work? All these people have similar ideas to yours, they either want root, or want to "try" with little to no knowledge at all about what they are doing.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=62378933&postcount=19
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=62380538&postcount=23
http://forum.xda-developers.com/verizon-galaxy-s5/help/vz-replacement-s5-oe1-t3190365
http://forum.xda-developers.com/ver...g5-verizon-t3192598/post62746265#post62746265
Spartan117H3 said:
It is misleading because you mark it as solved as if it was a puzzle that nobody else can figured out, like you had new information to provide. If I'm not mistaken, the kernel was never locked, and you can use any Odin to push a different kernel. It was never a question if the kernel was locked. So you didn't do anything except state what was redundant. The people who confirm that the bootloader is locked say so because it means you can't downgrade. They didn't say you can still downgrade the kernel because it's absolutely meaningless. That's like saying, the bootloader is locked, but you can still Odin and flash any file you want even if it doesn't work.
There are countless people like you in other threads who claim they're trying to find a way to root. Neither you nor I are smart enough to come up with an exploit, as I have detailed countless times before. So why don't we leave that up to the developers?
It doesn't matter if you don't care yourself, because you are not everyone. You are a single person. If you were everyone, obviously Verizon wouldn't make money off you, and wouldn't secure their phones. But this is flawed reasoning yet again.
A bad analogy shows you have flawed reasoning. It doesn't matter if you care or not, you don't have a problem with stating things that don't make sense, then by all means, continue (which I don't even have to say, because you do indeed continue).
Slander? Are you serious? You acknowledge the reason for his post, which claims you have a bad analogy, and explains why Verizon does what it does. Then you make an insane, baseless claim that says xda discourages root. Yet XDA was where the original root method was released in detail, with the newsworthy 18k bouty.
Why does he need to explain why it wouldn't work, when you yourself have already done that? It's the same when you responded to me. You answer your own question but then argue against people when they confirm with your latter findings that it doesn't work?
I don't understand why people like you are so happy to see 1 posters support you, but then immediately get hostile when anyone with any knowledge comes in to speak. You running from Verizon doesn't solve any problems and shows you weren't invested to begin with, which is fine, since you wouldn't have accomplished anything anyway. Unless you're claiming to be smarter than those who found the original root.
You want to know why it won't work? All these people have similar ideas to yours, they either want root, or want to "try" with little to no knowledge at all about what they are doing.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=62378933&postcount=19
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=62380538&postcount=23
http://forum.xda-developers.com/verizon-galaxy-s5/help/vz-replacement-s5-oe1-t3190365
http://forum.xda-developers.com/ver...g5-verizon-t3192598/post62746265#post62746265
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Listen I came here thinking I found a way. In no way was trying to start a war among like minded individuals. All you are doing is trying to ream me out for what? For a mistake I made, thinking I had a solution? Way to be professional. Sorry for cluttering the forum. Sorry for everything I have done thus far. Sorry for bothering you sir. Sorry for not being as knowledgeable as you are. I'm sorry for everything! F*ck
Sharpie603 said:
Listen I came here thinking I found a way. In no way was trying to start a war among like minded individuals. All you are doing is trying to ream me out for what? For a mistake I made, thinking I had a solution? Way to be professional. Sorry for cluttering the forum. Sorry for everything I have done thus far. Sorry for bothering you sir. Sorry for not being as knowledgeable as you are. I'm sorry for everything! F*ck
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The problem is, you just assume things without actually comprehending what people say. That's why you believe this is apparently a war. Ream you out? You miss the entire point, repeatedly. All it is is people telling you why your statements don't make any sense.
Sharpie603 said:
I'm not worried about my phone being hacked. I have nothing to hide. I do not bank online or make purchases online. If there is fraudulent activity on my bank account, my credit union will inform me. This is besides the fact. I could care less if I made a "bad" analogy. I'm not sitting here thinking "Hmmm I wonder if anyone will have a problem with this statement" when writing up a comment. Your paragraph is nothing but slander "Something XDA strongly discourages". A simple "I don't think this will work, and here's why" would of been suffice.
On a side note. I'm leaving Verizon so you won't have to worry about me trying to find root and help you guys out anymore.
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As stated that is just YOU. 99.9% of people do not want their phone hacked or their identity stolen.
How is stating the facts slander? And I think I would know best what is encouraged here and what isn't. Now you are just lashing out for no reason and making no sense.
I guess we can close this as you wished. Thanks for trying.
Hey all. Currently, evilpotatoman has gotten us closer than ever to achieving root with our phones. He's out of commission at this time until his device back comes in, which could take 2 weeks or more. He has extended the torch to any dev who might be interested in taking a crack at it with his notes (included below). Reference the bounty thread here for details about the bootloader/root bounty information.
!!!!PLEASE DO NOT POST YOUR BOUNTY AMOUNTS HERE!!!! DO IT IN RAYLON00'S THREAD FOR CONTINUITY: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=3339857
evilpotatoman said:
Here's where it's at, but first a few notes and thoughts;
A) Even after upsetting dm-verity, the system remained somewhat stable*
*The only issues I see are the system:custom message, an unlocked boot logo, and that the stock installer refuses to install anything but FOTAs or a sec_csc.zip flashed on the CACHE partition. If cleared, the system boots up normally
B) It's extremely difficult to reverse dev this device - Every piece of secure-trust-knox-DRK-verity-crapola increases the chance of a misstep and ending up with a really nice IOT brick. Because of all this security, looking for buffer overflows and random execs would take ages. I focused on stupid programming mistakes, sifting through log files, much like I did when developing the original Note 3 recovery method.
C) The HOME_CSC partition file that seems to fail typical odin flashes -- It sets something permanent, like kind of hard-coding the verity keys. During my testing, I flashed one only to later realize that my CSC was then hard-coded to Chinese branding. Before that flash, I could mess around with the branding at will (and subsequently write to the system partition). It was only after I flashed that CSC_HOME that dm-verity actually failed. In short -- I had root BEFORE download mode labeled my system as custom. I flashed HOME_CSC, dm-verity then failed when I changed the CSC following the hard-code.
I have yet to fully re-create my EFS partition, and sent it to someone who wears darker hats than I for a fix. Because I won't have the phone for a while (at least 2 weeks), I've decided to give a brain dump in hopes that someone can pick up where I left off.
PM me for additional details, but the following should get better devs searching for a more stable method.
sec_csc.zips (found in cache.img.ext4) can be used to modify the system partition, and the partition itself isn't signed. Those zips also set the region.
*A particularly interesting csc zip exists for the G9300's CSC file.....
Odin happily flashes specific "partitions" individually, so piece-meal it out.
nand partitions can be written to while still failing in odin (but system.img is signed in 2 places, so fyi)
The exploit leverages those download-mode/recovery, plus the stupid programming error found below:
on the stock firmware, there's a boot script that calls a missing binary, which is a perfect -in- for the su daemon.
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You can PM evilpotatoman here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/member.php?u=2322344
Very cool! This looks promising
Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk
maybe @jcadduono can do something here?
Holy ****! This is big news!
seanvree said:
maybe @jcadduono can do something here?
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He does not have a s7, so I doubt he can help much
Maybe jcase can work on boot loader and root
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
@jcase and @beaups come to mind.
I'd love to see this take off. To that effect, may I suggest contacting the dev you're wondering about and asking (POLITELY) if they intend to or are willing to contribute to this project?
Additionally, since we have nearly $2000 pledged for a root method, we can set up a fund to get the devices in the hands of the devs willing to work on the issue that may not have a device, starting with @evilpotatoman if he needs it. This might also give people who were apprehensive about contributing to the bounty another option to support this endeavor, and gives the rest of us a way to actively contribute instead of saying "here's your prize if you win."
Someone could even act as a third party to set up the fund (be it gofundme or something else, I need to research options). We may not all know how to fight on the front lines, but there are definitely ways the rest of us peons can actively support the effort instead of being passive and hoping it eventually happens because someone else did it.
Thoughts, suggestions, questions?
@jcase hacked the unhackable black phone.... I ask him on Twitter but he didn't say if he would have time to do it or not...
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
Tagging him won't help. I don't think he likes to tagged often. I'm talking about jcase. If he wants to he will. Since evilpotatoman has opened up this whole new scenario. I hope all the devs see it and try to put on their magic. But yes. I have my bet on jcase. Have seen his work from a while back. A mastermind I must admit.
Sent from my SM-G935T using XDA-Developers mobile app
Mew351 said:
Holy ****! This is big news!
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Click to collapse
No it isnt, this is exactly zero news.
That entire post is wrong, it is full of basic factual errors that make question if its a troll, or a misunderstanding of how these things work.
I may nitpick it when I get home if anyone disagrees with my evaluation of it, but a simple view:
a) messing with dm-verity wouldnt cause system stability issues at all, either it would boot or not.
b) reverse engineering this device is no harder than previous ones, there is no insane obfuscation or anything (just some simple obfuscation). Standard toolsets would work ehre.
c) The "custom" symbol is just a sign of tampering, in fact I could make a standard app to cause it. It wouldn't stop or remove root from a system.
The whole post in general is gibberish.
Dont start funds for developers who need phones, too many times it comes out bad.
We allow bounties, but funds need to be pledged not held by a single person, and they should not be paid out unless the project is completed, and posted (and is of primarily original work).
psych0r3bel said:
I'd love to see this take off. To that effect, may I suggest contacting the dev you're wondering about and asking (POLITELY) if they intend to or are willing to contribute to this project?
Additionally, since we have nearly $2000 pledged for a root method, we can set up a fund to get the devices in the hands of the devs willing to work on the issue that may not have a device, starting with @evilpotatoman if he needs it. This might also give people who were apprehensive about contributing to the bounty another option to support this endeavor, and gives the rest of us a way to actively contribute instead of saying "here's your prize if you win."
Someone could even act as a third party to set up the fund (be it gofundme or something else, I need to research options). We may not all know how to fight on the front lines, but there are definitely ways the rest of us peons can actively support the effort instead of being passive and hoping it eventually happens because someone else did it.
Thoughts, suggestions, questions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
jcase said:
Dont start funds for developers who need phones, too many times it comes out bad.
We allow bounties, but funds need to be pledged not held by a single person, and they should not be paid out unless the project is completed, and posted (and is of primarily original work).
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Fair enough. I probably should have checked to see if there was any rule against this. Regardless, from a common sense standpoint you make...well, sense. Wrote myself into a corner there. >.>
As for the entire OP being gibberish...you're essentially saying we're back at square one, or is he at least barking up the right tree, in your opinion? As you can tell, I'm a little overzealous when it comes to this phone getting root lol.
jcase said:
No it isnt, this is exactly zero news.
That entire post is wrong, it is full of basic factual errors that make question if its a troll, or a misunderstanding of how these things work.
I may nitpick it when I get home if anyone disagrees with my evaluation of it, but a simple view:
a) messing with dm-verity wouldnt cause system stability issues at all, either it would boot or not.
b) reverse engineering this device is no harder than previous ones, there is no insane obfuscation or anything (just some simple obfuscation). Standard toolsets would work ehre.
c) The "custom" symbol is just a sign of tampering, in fact I could make a standard app to cause it. It wouldn't stop or remove root from a system.
The whole post in general is gibberish.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
psych0r3bel said:
Fair enough. I probably should have checked to see if there was any rule against this. Regardless, from a common sense standpoint you make...well, sense. Wrote myself into a corner there. >.>
As for the entire OP being gibberish...you're essentially saying we're back at square one, or is he at least barking up the right tree, in your opinion? As you can tell, I'm a little overzealous when it comes to this phone getting root lol.
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Click to collapse
Well he did manage to get root so I don't know how it is all gibberish.
jakebake102 said:
Well he did manage to get root so I don't know how it is all gibberish.
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Click to collapse
I don't believe you or him on that. It is gibberish because its factually wrong, if it wasnt factually wrong I wouldnt have a reason to doubt someone in particular got root. When you make it apparent you are making stuff up or dont know what your talking about, it casts a major doubt.
Plus the proof shown, just showing that syscope got tripped, its not showing root, its not showing unlock, its literally showing nothing of any indication.
jakebake102 said:
Well he did manage to get root so I don't know how it is all gibberish.
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Click to collapse
It is possible to see and not understand. Often times an opinion held about the cause of a specific behavior in a complex system can be premature, and when new information comes to light suddenly all of the indicators that pointed to one cause suddenly mean something very different. The problem comes not with forming these theories about what causes a behavior, but in voicing that opinion before it is fully vetted out by your own tests.
In short, it is possible to be right about what you see, but wrong about what caused it.
jcase said:
I don't believe you or him on that. It is gibberish because its factually wrong, if it wasnt factually wrong I wouldnt have a reason to doubt someone in particular got root. When you make it apparent you are making stuff up or dont know what your talking about, it casts a major doubt.
Plus the proof shown, just showing that syscope got tripped, its not showing root, its not showing unlock, its literally showing nothing of any indication.
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Ok well thanks for looking this over.
jakebake102 said:
Well he did manage to get root so I don't know how it is all gibberish.
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Everyone beat me to it, but yeah. He said it, hasn't proven it. If he managed to get root, great. I gave him the benefit of the doubt, but now we have a known dev basically discrediting everything based upon his own expertise.
So from this point forward, the onus of proof is on the OP to prove he has/had root. Nothing a screenshot can't prove. It's entirely possible he did get root, but for a different reason than he stated, and posting his proof opens up the floor for a discussion on the exact process. The result doesn't produce the method, so maybe he stumbled upon root by chance in the midst of his work, which led him to think his method worked. Too many variables. That's why we discuss these things.
jcase said:
No it isnt, this is exactly zero news.
That entire post is wrong, it is full of basic factual errors that make question if its a troll, or a misunderstanding of how these things work.
I may nitpick it when I get home if anyone disagrees with my evaluation of it, but a simple view:
a) messing with dm-verity wouldnt cause system stability issues at all, either it would boot or not.
b) reverse engineering this device is no harder than previous ones, there is no insane obfuscation or anything (just some simple obfuscation). Standard toolsets would work ehre.
c) The "custom" symbol is just a sign of tampering, in fact I could make a standard app to cause it. It wouldn't stop or remove root from a system.
The whole post in general is gibberish.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey jcase (I know you from the old days on XDA, just a bit undercover now for XDA reasons.) Anyway, please don't let the excitement of some folks turn you off to this whole idea. These Qualcomm variants of the S7/Edge are majorly great devices, and root would be ****ing awesome for everyone, so people are gonna get worked up about it. You KNOW how XDA gets. If you believe that there might be a straightforward exploit available, similar to the CID directory exploit that was used in the VS5, please pass on any help you can. (Or even if it has nothing to do with that route.)
All I know is that if you, or bceups, or anyone could actually help make this happen (and this is definitely a "they say it'll never happen" moment, like the Evo3d or the VS5) then you'd be rockstars of the community, more than you are now, however much that means to you. (It means a lot to me, I promise you.) If you think there's hope, and you're willing to give it a shot, ****ing bad ass... If not, maybe PM evilpotatoman and give him a nudge in the direction you'd think would work best.
Either way, I, and I'm sure every GS7/EDGE customer in America who's into Android, definitely have your back.
Let us know your thoughts, and if there's actually a ray of hope.
That's all I got.
Peace, bro.
Edit: and, btw, there IS some big bounty or something to boot, lol.
..