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8-cores really needed?

8 cores in a mobile device is clearly a first and Samsung were likely to be the company to bring it to us BUT what's the point?
Is it just me who sees that as excessive?
There's not a chance that we'll even TRULY feel the power of the extra 4 cores. 4 cores aren't generally needed in other phones as there's only a small handful of games which actually use all the power. Even in those games, the most you're gonna have is a very sought amount of extra power.
Technology is still a few years away from needing 8 cores in a phone so really there's no point as the end user won't feel a difference in the slightest.
I'll admit it's a clever gimmick to sell more but, in my opinion, that's all it is.
What do others think?

This has been discussed to death, the point is for power efficiency without losing peak performance. That's the only and single reason this exists. You will have excellent battery life in every-day tasks due to it.

samsung people are mainly concentrating on specifications.. in order to match with xperia z waterproof and htc one 's features , the only thing they can do is sticking with ultra high spec..it is lookwise galaxy note 2 only..no doubt..so may be spec will be their primary concern...

The S3 does a more than good enough job in that regard though and there's only gonna be a certain amount of space for improvement. A whole 4 cores extra will leave purge majority of its power wasted. 6 cores, fair enough (to an extent) but not that many.

Samsung always tries to set a new standard regarding specs.
So they try to push other mobile facturers to do the same.
Also I think they use an 8 core so the S4 doesnt outdate that quickly.
Plus that it can actually be batterysaving tot have an 8 core over a 4 core CPU.
But this is just my opinion .

KidCarter93 said:
The S3 does a more than good enough job in that regard though and there's only gonna be a certain amount of space for improvement. A whole 4 cores extra will leave purge majority of its power wasted. 6 cores, fair enough (to an extent) but not that many.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
u can't compare A9 cores with A15 cores
A15 slightly use more power ( thats the biggest problem on A15 cores )

It is not a "real" 8-core CPU. It consists of two quad cores that alternate. One is a high end CPU that blows away previous hardware. The other is a low powered but efficient CPU that literally sips battery life. The phone alternates between the two based on the task at hand. Basically, you will never be using more than 4-cores and that is by design.

Kresge said:
It is not a "real" 8-core CPU. It consists of two quad cores that alternate. One is a high end CPU that blows away previous hardware. The other is a low powered but efficient CPU that literally sips battery life. The phone alternates between the two based on the task at hand. Basically, you will never be using more than 4-cores and that is by design.
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Click to collapse
ThankKresgege - that's good to know. I wasn't sure exactly how they were going to be utilizing the 8 cores, but what you just said makes complete sense. :good:

jaykresge said:
It is not a "real" 8-core CPU. It consists of two quad cores that alternate. One is a high end CPU that blows away previous hardware. The other is a low powered but efficient CPU that literally sips battery life. The phone alternates between the two based on the task at hand. Basically, you will never be using more than 4-cores and that is by design.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, you will use the powersufficient cores most of the time (which is actually more batteryfriendly than the CPU in S3), and use the superultra high-end CPU when you need some incredible amount of power?

Could 8 cores finally push the ppsspp(PSP) emulator to work better? I know the app is still beta but I tried it on Tablet with Quad core Tegra 3 clocked at 1.4ghz & the frames froze so much the game was unplayable. If anyone has tried God of War in the emulator you know what I mean.lol.
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cyrusalmighty said:
Could 8 cores finally push the ppsspp(PSP) emulator to work better? I know the app is still beta but I tried it on Tablet with Quad core Tegra 3 clocked at 1.4ghz & the frames froze so much the game was unplayable. If anyone has tried God of War in the emulator you know what I mean.lol.
Sent from my R800i using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why don't you get that the phone is not 8 cores. People need to stop with this.its like having two phones in one.one for browsing and low Cpu usage the other one is for heavy gaming etc etc. Its not 8 cores running at the same time
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lol, so many people in here just refuse to read.

@OP The 8 cores are not meant for power they are meant to save it the power hungry a15s will drain more battery whereas the a7s use considerably less the a15s will only be used when necessary meaning u will be saving alot battery
I have a feeling were gonna be addressing this alot
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---------- Post added at 10:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:35 AM ----------
See the part on arm big.LITTLE
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2191690
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TingTingin said:
@OP The 8 cores are not meant for power they are meant to save it the power hungry a15s will drain more battery whereas the a7s use considerably less the a15s will only be used when necessary meaning u will be saving alot battery
I have a feeling were gonna be addressing this alot
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---------- Post added at 10:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:35 AM ----------
See the part on arm big.LITTLE
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2191690
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Indeed you are. It's basically like having an MTK MT6589 chipset for low-demanding applications and a Snapdragon 600 for high-demanding applications on one die.
No doubt they're going to make this a selling point though.​

even quad cores for a phone is insane overkill lol, but for the latest demanding 3d games its sure needed.

I did a write-up on this so we can hopefully avoid these discussions for the rest of the year.

mortuus82 said:
even quad cores for a phone is insane overkill lol, but for the latest demanding 3d games its sure needed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Read through the thread
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It is not an octa-core phone by any means if you call the Tegra 3 quad-core. If Samsung dares to claim this thing (4+4) octa-core, the Tegra 3/4 (4+1)is penta-core.
The S4 (international) have 4 A7 cores clocked at (1.2GHz?) and another 4 A15 cores @1.6GHz. The two sets of cores can never run at the same time. This is the big.little idea - A7 cores are more efficient and are used for light tasks, the A15 cores are power hungry but have more horsepower. So it is designed to save energy when compared to only 4 A15 cores.
However whether this or Snapdragon's Krait save more energy is still unknown as of now. Benchmarks have shown the S4 having a very similar performance with the HTC One (w/ Snapdragon 600).
For me, Samsung took this approach due to two benefits: power saving (as said above) and a marketing gimmick. Uninformed people may likely scream "Wow, 8-cores on a phone? That must be powerful!" after watching their ads, so the S4 may sell more.

jaykresge said:
Basically, you will never be using more than 4-cores and that is by design.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is the type of processing they have chosen.
But with custom kernels which have hmp support you will be able to use any number of (upto8) in any order
sent from an Galaxy s3 GT I9300
Running perseus kernel 33.1 , XELLA 4.1.2 leaked build
forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1784401
Dont click,you might regret , I won't be responsible if you brick ur head

i9100g user said:
That is the type of processing they have chosen.
But with custom kernels which have hmp support you will be able to use any number of (upto8) in any order
sent from an Galaxy s3 GT I9300
Running perseus kernel 33.1 , XELLA 4.1.2 leaked build
forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1784401
Dont click,you might regret , I won't be responsible if you brick ur head
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was thinking that
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[Info] Exynos Octa and why you need to stop the drama about the 8 cores [Upd 25/05]

I'm going to write this as an guide/information page so we stop as soon as possible the stupid discussions about how 8 cores are useless.
[Update 25/05]
The below information was based on how things should have been. Reality is the Exynos 5410 has some serious issues with its cache coherent interconnect / CCI which cripples the chip to only cluster migration, effectively making the major parts of the big.LITTLE operating scheme useless. This is an issue in silicon which cannot be solved.
[/update]
What's it all about?
The Exynos Octa or Exynos 5410 is a big.LITTLE design engineered by ARM and is the first consumer implementation of this technology. Samsung was their lead partner in terms of bringing this to market first. Reneseas is the other current chip designer who has publicly announced a big.LITTLE design.
Misconception #1: Samsung didn't design this, ARM did. This is not some stupid marketing gimmick.
The point of the design is to meld the advantages of the A7 processor architectures, with its extreme power efficiency, with the A15 architecture, with extreme performance at a cost of power consumption. The A7 cores are slightly slower than an A9 equivalent, but using much less power. The A15 cores are in another ballpark in terms of performance but their power consumption is also extreme on this current manufacturing generation.
The effective goal is to achieve the best of both worlds. Qualcomm on the other does this by using their own architecture which is similar in some design aspects to the A15 architecture, but compromises on feature and performance to achieve higher power efficiency. The end result is for the user can be expressed in 2 measurements: IPC (Instrucitons per clock), and Perf/W (Performance per Watt).
In terms of IPC, the A15 leads the pack by quite a margin, followed by Krait 400, Krait 300, Krait 200, A9, A7, and A8 cores, in that order.
In terms of Perf/W, the A7 leads by a margin, followed by A9's and the Krait cores, with the A15 at a distant last in terms of efficiency.
Real-world use
Of course, the Exynos Octa is the first to use this:
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Currently, the official word seems to be that the A7 cluster is configured to run from 200 to 1200MHz, and the A15 cluster from 200 to 1600MHz.
There are several use-cases of how the design can be used, and it is purely limited by software, as the hardware configuration is completely flexible.
In-Kernel Switcher (IKS)
This is what most of us will see this in our consumer products this year; Effectively, you only have a virtual quad-core processor. The A15 cores are paired up with the A7 core clusters. Each A15 has a corresponding A7 "partner". Hardware wise, this pair-up has no physical representation as provided by an actual die-shot of the Exynos Octa.
The IKS does the same thing as a CPU governor. But instead of switching CPU frequency depending on the load, it will switch between CPUs.
Effecively, you are jumping from one performance/power curve to another: And that's it. Nothing more, nothing less.
The actual implementation is a very simple driver on the side of the kernel which measures load and acts much like a CPU governor.
The above is a demonstration; you can see how at most times the A7 cores are used for video playback, simple tasks, and miscellaneous computations. The A15 cores will kick in when there is more demanding load being processed, and then quickly drop out again to the A7 cores when it's not doing much anymore.
Misconception #2: You DON'T need to have all 8 cores online, actually, only maximum 4 cores will ever be online at the same time.
Misconception #3: If the workload is thread-light, just as we did hot-plugging on previous CPUs, big.LITTLE pairs will simply remain offline under such light loads. There is no wasted power with power-gating.
Misconception #4: As mentioned, each pair can switch independently of other pairs. It's not he whole cluster who switches between A15 and A7 cores. You can have only a single A15 online, together with two A7's, while the fourth pair is completely offline.
Misconception #5: The two clusters have their own frequency planes. This means A15 cores all run on one frequency while the A7 cores can be running on another. However, inside of the frequency planes, all cores run at the same frequency, meaning there is only one frequency for all cores of a type at a time.
Heterogeneous Multi-Processing (HMP)
This is the other actual implemented function mode of a big.LITTLE CPU. In this case, all 8 cores can be used simultaneously by the system.
This is a vastly more complex working mechanism, and its implementation is also an order of magnitude more sophisticated. It requires the kernel scheduler to actually be aware of the differentiation of between the A7 and A15 cores. Currently, the Linux kernel is not capable of doing this and treats all CPUs as equals. This is a problem since we do not want to use the A15 cores when a task can simply me processed on an A7 core with a much lower power cost.
The Linaro working-group already finished the first implementation of the HMP design as a series of patches to be applied against the Linux 3.8 kernel. What they did is to make the scheduler smart enough to be able to track the load of single process entities, and with that information to schedule the threads smartly on either the A7 cores or the A15 cores. This achieves much lower latency in terms of switching workloads, or better said, switching the environments (CPUs) to the respective work-loads, and exposes the full processing capabilities of the silicon as all cores can be used at once.
You can follow the advancements of this in the publications of the Linaro Connect summits that happen every few months. The code was only published in the middle of February this year for the first working implementation equivalent in power consumption to the IKS.
Misconception #6: Yes the CPU is a true 8-core processor. It's just not being used a such in its initial software implementations

Re: [Info] Exynos Octa and why you need to stop the drama about the 8 cores
Will link to this in my info thread
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seems there is no Octa version anytime soon
the mass production will start in Q2
http://global.samsungtomorrow.com/?p=22936

Re: [Info] Exynos Octa and why you need to stop the drama about the 8 cores
Hehe can't wait foe your kernel Andrei. I was disappointed bythe design but I'll just get me one. My only worry is the tw lags in contacts and unlocking. Also, wouldn't the a7 be 2 slow when multitasking? You open a web site, and xda so the a7 kick in then open a Game. How is the transition done with outstanding the phone lagging? Im very curious about this. Fromthe hands on we can see the phone stuttering a lot.
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Question. Which one should be a better processor to choose from? The Quad-core snapdragron or the Exynos Octa-core? Exynos vs Snapdragron.

My main concern for the new Exynos is: I'm a S2 user and we all know how Samsung handled their promise of open properly working drivers for the Exynos 4 (as in not). Naturally I don't expect much. Now I only today saw that the Nexus 10 has an Exynos 5 also. Does this stronger Google-connection mean, that the S4 should not face the same problems as the S2 or am I better off with another SoC.

Excellent write-up Andrei.
Much needed to stop all the BS spreading across the forums.

Re: [Info] Exynos Octa and why you need to stop the drama about the 8 cores
klaus4040 said:
My main concern for the new Exynos is: I'm a S2 user and we all know how Samsung handled their promise of open properly working drivers for the Exynos 4 (as in not). Naturally I don't expect much. Now I only today saw that the Nexus 10 has an Exynos 5 also. Does this stronger Google-connection mean, that the S4 should not face the same problems as the S2 or am I better off with another SoC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It depends on what u mean by better
Power= snapdragon
Battery savings= Exynos
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@ Andrei
So how does power consumption in HMP model compares versus the IKS model?
I might be outdated but the IKS model is basically the same concept as CPU Migration, right?
And finally will we ever see Cluster Migration implementations, maybe outside smartphones?

gypsy214 said:
Question. Which one should be a better processor to choose from? The Quad-core snapdragron or the Exynos Octa-core? Exynos vs Snapdragron.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Samsung will make the choice for you; it seems that all LTE models are Snapdragon while the 3G models will be Exynos. Personally, I live in an area where LTE is a rip-off and has minimal benefits, and I find the Exynos more exciting and better.
TingTingin said:
It depends on what u mean by better
Power= snapdragon
Battery savings= Exynos
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We don't know why Samsung went with the Snapdragon in the first place, until then, such claims are senseless. I HIGHLY suspect it is because of manufacturing constraints. The GPU on the Exynos will be faster and more powerful, you need to take that into account.
jesr said:
@ Andrei
So how does power consumption in HMP model compares versus the IKS model?
I might be outdated but the IKS model is basically the same concept as CPU Migration, right?
And finally will we ever see Cluster Migration implementations, maybe outside smartphones?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Power consumption is identical in ideal conditions. Performance on HMP should be however (theoretically) better since we will have less task migration between the CPUs and the overhead of switching data on the CPU caches will be lower. It also depends if Samsung pulled their head out of their asses and implemented a proper CPUIdle driver with a core power collapse state, if they did, HMP will be undoubtedly better.
IKS is CPU migration, yes.
We won't ever see Cluster Migration as it doesn't make any sense in practical terms, there are absolutely no advantages in it compared to the IKS and you actually waste power by migrating other CPUs in the cluster when they actually don't need to be switched.

gypsy214 said:
Question. Which one should be a better processor to choose from? The Quad-core snapdragron or the Exynos Octa-core? Exynos vs Snapdragron.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think we will have to wait until reviews are out to know for sure which is faster/more battery efficient. Also if you want LTE (in the US) I think you will be stuck with the Snapdragon because of the LTE bands supported by the chipset. If I had to guess, I would suggest that the 8 core would be better for power consumption and performance, but that's all it is, a guess.

If I'm playing a 3D game, the phone will use the A15s, right?
Would the Snapdragon 600 be more efficient than the exynos Octa in that scenario?

Re: [Info] Exynos Octa and why you need to stop the drama about the 8 cores
rkial said:
If I'm playing a 3D game, the phone will use the A15s, right?
Would the Snapdragon 600 be more efficient than the exynos Octa in that scenario?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How 3d is this game? :sly:
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James086 said:
I think we will have to wait until reviews are out to know for sure which is faster/more battery efficient. Also if you want LTE (in the US) I think you will be stuck with the Snapdragon because of the LTE bands supported by the chipset. If I had to guess, I would suggest that the 8 core would be better for power consumption and performance, but that's all it is, a guess.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's good. But i guess I care more about development than LTE. I have no experience with Exynos I don't know how Samsung will be with development wise with the Octave core Exynos. Like releasing drivers etc etc.

TingTingin said:
How 3d is this game? :sly:
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Click to expand...
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hah. I mean games that arent sudoku or crosswords.
Just wondering if the S600 would be more efficient during heavy use than the Exynos.​

Re: [Info] Exynos Octa and why you need to stop the drama about the 8 cores
rkial said:
If I'm playing a 3D game, the phone will use the A15s, right?
Would the Snapdragon 600 be more efficient than the exynos Octa in that scenario?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Read andrei's misconception no.4....
.....

Chillz88 said:
Read andrei's misconception no.4....
.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did. That's why I asked the question.
He says the A15 will be least efficient
with the A15 at a distant last in terms of efficiency.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But I have no idea how many cores heavy gaming takes up. Also, not sure how the S600 would deal with its cores that arent being used.

TingTingin said:
It depends on what u mean by better
Power= snapdragon
Battery savings= Exynos
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In terms of driver support without waiting for month until the community (or much appreciated dedicated community programmers) managed to get things running.​

rkial said:
I did. That's why I asked the question.
He says the A15 will be least efficient
But I have no idea how many cores heavy gaming takes up. Also, not sure how the S600 would deal with its cores that arent being used.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Depends on the game.
90% of games will run on the A7 cores without ever needing the A15 power.
3D needs minimal CPU power, for example clamping the CPU on our current devices to single-core and 600MHz will have absolutely no effect on benchmarks like GLBenchmark or the Unreal Citadel.
However if the game does physics, A.I. computations, sound effects and who know what else, then the CPU will be loaded.
It also depends how threaded the game is. I don't think that games run more than 1 "heavy" thread, so in optimal conditions you'd only have a single A15 up while having the rest of the pairs staying on the A7 cores.
There is no definitive answer to your question. Just fire up CPU-Spy, reset the frequency states and go play a game and see the result. If you're on an A9 core phone then theoretically if you exceed the 1000MHz state, then that would be over the capacity of what the A7's could deliver and it would switch over to the A15.

I'd be playing something like Fifa and NFS,
Guess I'll have to try it to get a better idea.
Thanks for the explanation

Octa core Exynos no better than snapdragon, so no more whining/boasting

http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/06/samsung-galaxy-s4-octacore-review/
The A15 in the octa-core isn't any better or worse than the krait in the snapdragon, either in performance or benchmarks. The extra four helper cores you get doesn't improve battery life. In fact, with the four a15 cores, it is actually WORSE than the more efficient krait cores. All those people bragging about how much the A15 is better than the krait based on thin air speculation really need to shove it up their butt.
It was already expected that the four extra low power cores in an octa core would not make much difference in battery life and actually be worse off than a regular quad-core processor. History has already shown with the Tegra 3's helper core that utilizing low power helper cores is a tricky and inefficient affair. It's not easy to switch between them, to prioritize when to use what, and instead of making a more efficient A15 design, Samsung relied too much on the chip's switching capabilities instead of making an overall better processor.
So if you want LTE, BETTER BATTERY LIFE, rom compatibility and dev support with the most widespread SoC, actual availability in stores everywhere, then stop waiting or worrying about the Exynos octa-core and pick the widely available snapdragon version of the S4. Anyone still spouting how great the octa-core version will be and still lies about it being EIGHT WHOLE CORES! when there's really only four are the biggest trolls in the S4 forum.

this video show more real compasion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wt5im3WAZYc

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2258519

Heh, load of bullcrap.
If you do video battery tests you do them on Wi-Fi, congratulations on testing modem battery life. (Same carrier? Same tower? Same time of day? Bravo on apples vs oranges Engadget)
The benchmarks ARE faster on the 9500. Let's not mention that Engadget are incompetent fools who don't understand benchmarking. The Linpack scores are a joke as is CF-bench, one because the benchmark literally takes 0.3s and if you're idling before you press the start button that's not even though time for the CPU to ramp up to highest speed. CF-bench fails due to thermal throttling. At least that's a valid negative point, but not performance, scores are far beyond the 30k mark. I'm also getting funny more realistic results on the other benches: 661ms vs 732 SunSpider, 10% higher Vellamo score, 300 more 3D rating, and I'm sure there's others. Funny how they suddenly don't use GeekBench.
Matter of fact: the 9500 is undoubtedly faster and that's a technical reality. They even state so in their subjective comparison.
As for battery life: I've already mentioned how the early firmware is unfinished. I'm getting roughly 10% per hour usage; right now at 61% and 3h30 screen, and that's with doing benchmarks for the last half hour which ate 9%.
The only correct *video* battery life tests I've seen came from GSMArena (9505) and Russian mobile-review who got 12h.
You're going to have to wait for AnandTech to do a review in a few months to be able to use it as argumental material in such discussions.
Engadget is the pinnacle of ignorance and technical non-reporting, and as they've proved in their botched S3 review last year, the benchmarking seems to be done by the principal of their local baboon academy.

katamari201 said:
All those people bragging about how much the A15 is better than the krait based on thin air speculation really need to shove it up their butt.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think people thought that devices using Octa vs. S-600 wouldn't perform comparably. It would make no sense for Samsung not to optimize both to the best of their ability and S-600 is a powerful and efficient chip. You can't help but get the feeling that the s/w isn't "done" on either version based on comments on all the SGS4 forums about lag and display driver issues. That's echoed by some of AndreiLux's comments from looking at the code. Octa is literally the first public implementation of big.LITTLE. All of ARM’s future designs will be based on it. That means Qualcomm’s next generation of chips after S-800 will be based on it also as they license ARM’s designs. I'd expect over time that updates will continue to improve Octa's performance (power and efficiency) whereas S-600 is simply a massaged version of S4 Pro and the OEMs have a lot more experience working with it so there's less upside potential. I'd still buy the i9500 over the i9505 if I were going to get a SGS4 (I'm waiting for the N3) as I think its long-term potential is greater than S-600 and, going forward, I'd expect it to be used in more Samsung devices once Qualcomm's RF360 universal LTE baseband becomes available. Once that happens, unless there's production capacity issues, there no reason Octa wouldn't be Samsung go-to high-end chip. Just my opinion of course.
P.S. - The i9500 has about 250MB more free RAM (13%) than the i9505 as Adreno reserves 500MB for itself while PowerVR reserves a little over 200MB.

matheus_sc said:
this video show more real compasion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wt5im3WAZYc
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Funny thing is you do the same comparison on another I9505 or I9500 and it will most probably yield different results... they are too close to compare
---------- Post added at 11:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:38 AM ----------
BarryH_GEG said:
P.S. - The i9500 has about 250MB more free RAM (13%) than the i9505 as Adreno reserves 500MB for itself while PowerVR reserves a little over 200MB.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? Where is the source for this? Anyone like to show free ram comparisons between both devices? I am sitting around 750mb free ram,I am Stock Rooted, I have 5 active applications open... And I still have most of the samsung bloat

BarryH_GEG said:
P.S. - The i9500 has about 250MB more free RAM (13%) than the i9505 as Adreno reserves 500MB for itself while PowerVR reserves a little over 200MB.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
None of that memory on neither SoCs is allocated to the GPUs. Video memory is reserved on-the-fly from user-space. That unavailable memory is dedicated to camera controllers, image processors, video decoder, and a bunch of other smaller buffers.

katamari201 said:
http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/06/samsung-galaxy-s4-octacore-review/
The A15 in the octa-core isn't any better or worse than the krait in the snapdragon, either in performance or benchmarks. The extra four helper cores you get doesn't improve battery life. In fact, with the four a15 cores, it is actually WORSE than the more efficient krait cores. All those people bragging about how much the A15 is better than the krait based on thin air speculation really need to shove it up their butt.
It was already expected that the four extra low power cores in an octa core would not make much difference in battery life and actually be worse off than a regular quad-core processor. History has already shown with the Tegra 3's helper core that utilizing low power helper cores is a tricky and inefficient affair. It's not easy to switch between them, to prioritize when to use what, and instead of making a more efficient A15 design, Samsung relied too much on the chip's switching capabilities instead of making an overall better processor.
So if you want LTE, BETTER BATTERY LIFE, rom compatibility and dev support with the most widespread SoC, actual availability in stores everywhere, then stop waiting or worrying about the Exynos octa-core and pick the widely available snapdragon version of the S4. Anyone still spouting how great the octa-core version will be and still lies about it being EIGHT WHOLE CORES! when there's really only four are the biggest trolls in the S4 forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Get ornery myself some times. Trust me on this, go out, find some nice young lady, make her see God. Later when you read this and are wondering what the hell you were thinking you can apologize. Everybody wins. :good:

Well Said, AMEN
Well said Krabman.....
katamari201 said:
http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/06/samsung-galaxy-s4-octacore-review/
The A15 in the octa-core isn't any better or worse than the krait in the snapdragon, either in performance or benchmarks. The extra four helper cores you get doesn't improve battery life. In fact, with the four a15 cores, it is actually WORSE than the more efficient krait cores. All those people bragging about how much the A15 is better than the krait based on thin air speculation really need to shove it up their butt.
It was already expected that the four extra low power cores in an octa core would not make much difference in battery life and actually be worse off than a regular quad-core processor. History has already shown with the Tegra 3's helper core that utilizing low power helper cores is a tricky and inefficient affair. It's not easy to switch between them, to prioritize when to use what, and instead of making a more efficient A15 design, Samsung relied too much on the chip's switching capabilities instead of making an overall better processor.
So if you want LTE, BETTER BATTERY LIFE, rom compatibility and dev support with the most widespread SoC, actual availability in stores everywhere, then stop waiting or worrying about the Exynos octa-core and pick the widely available snapdragon version of the S4. Anyone still spouting how great the octa-core version will be and still lies about it being EIGHT WHOLE CORES! when there's really only four are the biggest trolls in the S4 forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

AndreiLux said:
None of that memory on neither SoCs is allocated to the GPUs. Video memory is reserved on-the-fly from user-space. That unavailable memory is dedicated to camera controllers, image processors, video decoder, and a bunch of other smaller buffers.
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Click to collapse
People were saying the i9505 has 1.5GB of available RAM while the i9500 has 1.8GB. Is that true? If it is, what's contributing to the difference?

BarryH_GEG said:
People were saying the i9505 has 1.5GB of available RAM while the i9500 has 1.8GB. Is that true? If it is, what's contributing to the difference?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, it's not true. My i9505 have 1.78gb of RAM available.

BarryH_GEG said:
People were saying the i9505 has 1.5GB of available RAM while the i9500 has 1.8GB. Is that true? If it is, what's contributing to the difference?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
loollll no ... where are ppl coming up with this nonsense

Who cares really when are we gonna use the phone at max capacity? And 3 months later something better will be out so quit your *****ing and enjoy ya phone
Sent from my GT-I9505 using xda premium

By the time Verizon ships my S4, the next super phone will be out! Seriously, I've got to quit reading these forums.
Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk 2

1.78gb ram on I9505 here

In any device even low end device you will not find the full ram visible as some is reserved exclusively of the system.
Also the post was on difference between Octa and Quall why would you expect a significant different as if that happens samsung would be trouble because they are the same device right S4 so samsung would tuned both in a way that the performance battery life is almost the same that hows it should be right you cannot say my s4 is slower then yours bec I purchased it from US ????

BarryH_GEG said:
People were saying the i9505 has 1.5GB of available RAM while the i9500 has 1.8GB. Is that true? If it is, what's contributing to the difference?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It really doesn't made a huge difference on Android devices. The extra memory just allows you to have more applications paused in the background before the kernel kills them to free up space. With the S3 if you're playing a game and switch to a web browser it's very likely that the game will be closed as it only has 1GB. On the S4 it will stay open in the background.

katamari201 said:
http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/06/samsung-galaxy-s4-octacore-review/
The A15 in the octa-core isn't any better or worse than the krait in the snapdragon, either in performance or benchmarks. The extra four helper cores you get doesn't improve battery life. In fact, with the four a15 cores, it is actually WORSE than the more efficient krait cores. All those people bragging about how much the A15 is better than the krait based on thin air speculation really need to shove it up their butt.
It was already expected that the four extra low power cores in an octa core would not make much difference in battery life and actually be worse off than a regular quad-core processor. History has already shown with the Tegra 3's helper core that utilizing low power helper cores is a tricky and inefficient affair. It's not easy to switch between them, to prioritize when to use what, and instead of making a more efficient A15 design, Samsung relied too much on the chip's switching capabilities instead of making an overall better processor.
So if you want LTE, BETTER BATTERY LIFE, rom compatibility and dev support with the most widespread SoC, actual availability in stores everywhere, then stop waiting or worrying about the Exynos octa-core and pick the widely available snapdragon version of the S4. Anyone still spouting how great the octa-core version will be and still lies about it being EIGHT WHOLE CORES! when there's really only four are the biggest trolls in the S4 forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Amazing! Where were you all these days??
BTW, I don't have to wait, nor do I have to worry about getting a I9500. Stores near me don't have any Snapdragon variant. I think it's always a good practise not to take advise from a random person in the forums.
Nobody asked for your advise on what version to get. People are knowledgeable enough to make that decision.

[NEWS]Samsung announced the Heterogeneous Multi-Processing (HMP) for Exynos 5 Octa

http://www.samsung.com/global/busin...eterogeneous_Multi_Processing_Capability.html
This is breaking good news for us, though it's still unclear if it's for 5420 only or can be implemented into 5410 through update as well.
If you've been paying attention, you know that the Exynos 5 Octa packs a serious punch when it comes to processing power and energy efficiency. Now, the team at Samsung has made the Exynos 5 Octa even better with the introduction of a new Heterogeneous Multi-Processing (HMP) solution.
Overview of big.LITTLE Technology
Before we jump into the benefits of HMP, let's take a step back and go over the basics ofARM® big.LITTLE technology. In the Exynos 5 Octa, eight CPU cores are responsible for everything from browsing the web to playing your favorite game on your 5 Octa-powered mobile device. Four "big" 1.8GHz ARM® Cortex™-A15 cores handle intensive tasks like graphically rich gaming or HD video playback. Less intensive tasks like e-mail or text functions are tackled by four "LITTLE" 1.3GHz Cortex™-A7 cores. By dividing and conquering tasks and assigning them to the proper CPU cores, big.LITTLE technology maximizes performance while minimizing power loss.
HMP Makes big.LITTLE Technology Even Better
Now this is where HMP comes into play. Like a sports team, big.LITTLE technology relies on a software "coach" to call the plays and assign tasks to each core. In a basic implementation of big.LITTLE technology, this "coach" would alternate between using "big" and "LITTLE" CPU cores based on the computational intensity of any given task, and one core or cluster of cores would remain inactive while its counterpart was engaged.
With HMP, all eight of the CPU cores in the Exynos 5 Octa can be utilized at the same time. This provides users with an unlimited mobile experience in the current mobile environment and also paves the way for more advanced and complex functionality in the future. HMP is extremely versatile. Using a global load balancing scheduler, HMP can assign a single core to handle a task with low computational intensity in order to maximize power efficiency. On the flipside, HMP can also simultaneously utilize each of the eight individual cores in the 5 Octa to run multiple tasks in real time. The global load balancing scheduler pays attention to user workloads and will pull in the necessary available resources for the system to run flexibly and efficiently. By analyzing and assigning tasks,this highly complex software system maximizes efficiency by balancing CPU workload.
The result is the most advanced use of big.LITTLE technology to date and a huge leap forward for multi-processing capability in mobile devices. By allowing for the simultaneous operation of both "big" and "LITTLE" cores in the Exynos 5 Octa, Samsung offers an optimized HMP solution to the balancing act of maximizing mobile device capability while minimizing power loss.
Samsung has always been a leader in big.LITTLE technology, and this new Octa-core HMP solution is an industry first. HMP sets the stage for the future as mobile devices are increasingly called upon to handle complex and graphically rich tasks. Through this innovative solution, the benefits of big.LITTLE technology are maximized to their full potential. Get ready, because the future of mobile processing is evolving, and the Exynos 5 Octa with HMP is leading the way.
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well its definately about the 5420 because 1.8ghz a15 and 1.3 ghz a7 is not 5410 but 5420 sad

hypergamer1231 said:
well its definately about the 5420 because 1.8ghz a15 and 1.3 ghz a7 is not 5410 but 5420 sad
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You get your point there, however I think that's not valid enough as when Sammy do their public announcements they will (of course) talk about the better things. Everything they talk about is "up to"
Anyway I'm not sure about this. I know @AndreiLux mentioned the core migration is impossible because flawed hardware, but HMP should be another story, I guess mostly it's about the Linux kernel. Let's just wait and see.

Hopefully they will release a refreshed version of the i9500? Probably not but here's hoping.

@AndreiLux sorry if i disturbed u but now just want to clarify few things because as we all know ur the master of this Exynos thingy...
"Samsung will enable the HMP solution for its Exynos 5 Octa in Q4 2013."
source: " http://www.sammobile.com/2013/09/10...ocessing-will-be-integrated-in-exynos-5-octa/ "
is it for i9500 or it is just for the new Note 3 powered by Exynos 5420 ?

gdonanthony said:
@AndreiLuxis it for i9500 or it is just for the new Note 3 powered by Exynos 5420 ?
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Click to collapse
most likely none of them since they said they will start using it in Q4 2013 ...and because having online all 8 cores and being able to use them all simultaneously mean considerable increase in power consumption at full load my best guess is that the first product using this implementation would be a tablet ...

AvelonTs said:
most likely none of them since they said they will start using it in Q4 2013 ...and because having online all 8 cores and being able to use them all simultaneously mean considerable increase in power consumption at full load my best guess is that the first product using this implementation would be a tablet ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
exactly.

hypergamer1231 said:
well its definately about the 5420 because 1.8ghz a15 and 1.3 ghz a7 is not 5410 but 5420 sad
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
5420 runs at 1.9GHz&1.3GHz in the Note 3, on the other hand, the 5410 can run up to 1.8GHz&1.3GHz as it does in the Korean variant GS4.
Hmmm...

AvelonTs said:
...and because having online all 8 cores and being able to use them all simultaneously mean considerable increase in power consumption at full load my best guess is that the first product using this implementation would be a tablet ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You don't understand power management.
POLO_i780 said:
5420 runs at 1.9GHz&1.3GHz in the Note 3, on the other hand, the 5410 can run up to 1.8GHz&1.3GHz as it does in the Korean variant GS4.
Hmmm...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Korean version has the same clocks as the international.
And, no, this is HMP story only concerns the 5420 products. The 5410 is dead.

Oh?
Unless SamMobile is mistaken to:
http://www.sammobile.com/2013/04/10...exynos-5-octa-kills-qualcomms-snapdragon-600/
I was always under the impression the Korean Exynos GS4 ran at max 1.8GHz, hence why it was capable of scoring +31,000 in AnTuTu.

AndreiLux said:
You don't understand power management.
The Korean version has the same clocks as the international.
And, no, this is HMP story only concerns the 5420 products. The 5410 is dead.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks for the clarification
u mean 5410 is dead so there is no light for it ?
im slowly accepting now this very bad news

AndreiLux said:
You don't understand power management.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do not ... but pure logic says having 8 cores working at max freq all together requires more power than having 4 of them ... or any other compination of them ... or that's not possible even with an HMP enabled SoC?

AvelonTs said:
I do not ... but pure logic says having 8 cores working at max freq all together requires more power than having 4 of them ... or any other compination of them ... or that's not possible even with an HMP enabled SoC?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ohh. And why do you think some normal stuff would require anything more than a7 cores.. u understand that most off the apps on playstore would not require even 2 a5 cores at max logically or 4 a15s at half frequency.. so it doesnt matter that all 8 cores are online.. it only depends on how you use it.
For a power user its cherry over cake for others it is a great news for battery life..

Degrated Shadow said:
Ohh. And why do you think some normal stuff would require anything more than a7 cores.. u understand that most off the apps on playstore would not require even 2 a5 cores at max logically or 4 a15s at half frequency.. so it doesnt matter that all 8 cores are online.. it only depends on how you use it.
For a power user its cherry over cake for others it is a great news for battery life..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Low multi-threadedness is a myth or a product of stupid programming. For one I'm making an application right now which parallelizes the whole UI loading and can make easily use of of 7+ threads scales pretty much infinitely if it's allowed to.
More cores don't cost any power, only die area. You gain tremendous dynamic range and power efficiency. Of course your theoretical peak power consumption goes up but you can just cap that with power management.
The Moto X is a good example of how a dual-core SoC can be less power efficient than a quad-core.

AndreiLux said:
Low multi-threadedness is a myth or a product of stupid programming. For one I'm making an application right now which parallelizes the whole UI loading and can make easily use of of 7+ threads scales pretty much infinitely if it's allowed to.
More cores don't cost any power, only die area. You gain tremendous dynamic range and power efficiency. Of course your theoretical peak power consumption goes up but you can just cap that with power management.
The Moto X is a good example of how a dual-core SoC can be less power efficient than a quad-core.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand. But as you quote did I say the stuff wrong or right?
Sorry for dumb question. Not so good at english.

Degrated Shadow said:
I understand. But as you quote did I say the stuff wrong or right?
Sorry for dumb question. Not so good at english.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wrong; see for yourself :
yahyoh said:
Woah
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

AndreiLux said:
Wrong; see for yourself :
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay understood. But honestly. If all the 8 cores are used how would anyone manage power efficiency?
A15s least frequency consumes higher amount of power than peak power consumption of A7s. Is not that so?
edit: I understood. More cores would cost only die area. They wont cost any power unless they are used more. What happens when die area is occupied more?

I dont think this will make a big difference in battery life. I think the display is the real power hungry in every android device. Also the android system itself.
Smart phone maker should focus on making lighter and smaller battery but better power capacity.
Just my opinion...
Sent from my Nokia 3210 LTE

marc_ecko28 said:
Smart phone maker should focus on making lighter and smaller battery but better power capacity.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's better without battery at all with infinite power capacity
Don't limit your wishes!

From Sammobile:
Chinese manufacturer Meizu has some good news. According to Meizu, HMP can be implemented through a software upgrade, and will be made available to the MX3, its current flagship that uses the same Exynos chip as the Galaxy S4. This means that we should see Samsung doing the same for its own devices, and it could be the reason why the Korean manufacturer is only showing off the new eight-core capability without naming a new Exynos chipset.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In short, Meizu is saying that HMP is possible in 5410 Octa, as their MX3 uses it. So, is Meizu wrong?
http://www.sammobile.com/2013/09/11...-eight-core-devices-through-software-upgrade/
http://www.unwiredview.com/2013/09/...oftware-upgrade-will-get-to-current-products/

PCMark: Note3 out-performs Note4

See benchmark details here
Top scores....
Note 3: 5130
Note 4: 4942

Duh...
Quad-core 1.3 GHz Cortex-A53 & Quad-core 1.9 GHz Cortex-A57 (SM-N910C)
quad-core 1.3 GHz Cortex-A7 & Quad-core 1.9 GHz Cortex-A15 (N9000)
The Exynos CPU in the N3 and N4 hava exactly the same speed... And yet the N9005 only has a 1920x1080 screen, whereas the Note 4 has to render 2560x1440.
Thank you for proving why I absolutely hate Exynos.
I'd like to know the Snapdragon variants. Since the Note 4 does have a significantly more powerful Snapdragon CPU, and the Snapdragon is the 80% of the market model, the Exynos is only for lower markets.
Quad-core 2.7 GHz Krait 450 (SM-N910S)
Quad-core 2.3 GHz Krait 400 (N9005)

But the Exynos in the Note 4 is pretty awesome already:
http://anandtech.com/show/8718/the-samsung-galaxy-note-4-exynos-review
Good things are to come with the one in the Galaxy S6.

If you would run the PCMark test yourselves and post the results, that would be great!!
Thanks

ShadowLea said:
the Exynos is only for lower markets.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is kind of offending!, and I am non emotional guy who hates Exynos too :|

devilsdouble said:
This is kind of offending!, and I am non emotional guy who hates Exynos too :|
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If a market sells less or requires less high-level hardware due to an older, less sophisticated network system, it's considered a lower market. The demand and proceeds are lower compared to the high-selling markets, thus the word lower.
That's not a personal attempt at insult, it's a corporate definition.
Until 4G was rolled out, the Netherlands was one of those lower markets. (Though, frankly, I still consider it as such..) In the days of the S3, every non-US country was considered a lower market.
(Besides, I'm a sociopath, I don't do emotional )

Marketing aside: Temasek's CM12 + arter97 kernel + data&cache partitions in f2fs.
The phone is superfast as hell, but benchmark result was this:

Times are changing, for the worse and for better, i know it makes no sense, but so doesnt sammy.
They seem to drop Snapdragon, and with 810 in sight (ignored too), Exynos is going for a PR fight with overheating accusations, and being the sucky ones in performance and the best in sales (Samsung generally), they just made their phones even less open to the people, HOWEVER...they are dropping bloat too.
As i said, they are making no sense.

sirobelec said:
Marketing aside: Temasek's CM12 + arter97 kernel + data&cache partitions in f2fs.
The phone is superfast as hell, but benchmark result was this:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Stock Note N900 seems to perform better
PCMark for Android claims to......
Measure the performance and battery life of your Android smart phone and tablet using tests based on everyday tasks, not abstract algorithms.

ShadowLea said:
If a market sells less or requires less high-level hardware due to an older, less sophisticated network system, it's considered a lower market. The demand and proceeds are lower compared to the high-selling markets, thus the word lower.
That's not a personal attempt at insult, it's a corporate definition.
Until 4G was rolled out, the Netherlands was one of those lower markets. (Though, frankly, I still consider it as such..) In the days of the S3, every non-US country was considered a lower market.
(Besides, I'm a sociopath, I don't do emotional )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ShadowLea said:
Duh...
Quad-core 1.3 GHz Cortex-A53 & Quad-core 1.9 GHz Cortex-A57 (SM-N910C)
quad-core 1.3 GHz Cortex-A7 & Quad-core 1.9 GHz Cortex-A15 (N9000)
The Exynos CPU in the N3 and N4 hava exactly the same speed... And yet the N9005 only has a 1920x1080 screen, whereas the Note 4 has to render 2560x1440.
Thank you for proving why I absolutely hate Exynos.
I'd like to know the Snapdragon variants. Since the Note 4 does have a significantly more powerful Snapdragon CPU, and the Snapdragon is the 80% of the market model, the Exynos is only for lower markets.
Quad-core 2.7 GHz Krait 450 (SM-N910S)
Quad-core 2.3 GHz Krait 400 (N9005)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why don't you simply run the test yourself with the superior phone/network you have and let the results speak for themselves?
PCMark for android

4354 here UK note 3

If Samsung do end up dropping Qualcomm in their next generation of phones, my N9005 Note 3 will be my last Samsung for the foreseeable future. Exynos holds no interest for me, as it's closed source nature inevitably means little to no support for non-stock AOSP/CM roms. And the non-stock roms that are available are generally unstable and bug ridden.

^ +100
We know S6 is not going to have S810, why wouldnt they follow the same path with Note's too?
SM-N9005 is my last Samsung device, i am not going to drag myself to pain with Exynos.

New top score... 5130

Benchmark scores between flagship phones mean precisely jack s**t these days, they're little more than **** waving. Discernible features is what should be compared.
"Wow, my Android phone scored 200 more points than your Android phone! And please, let's ignore the fact it will make precisely zero difference in real world use!"

Beefheart said:
Benchmark scores between flagship phones mean precisely jack s**t these days, they're little more than **** waving. Discernible features is what should be compared.
"Wow, my Android phone scored 200 more points than your Android phone! And please, let's ignore the fact it will make precisely zero difference in real world use!"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ignorance is bliss!!
The whole point of these tests is to show that most of the other benchmarks don't show a true picture of real-life use.
Why else would Note 3 appear to perform better than Note4?
The PCMark webpage states the following...
PCMark for Android introduces a fresh approach to benchmarking smart phones and tablets. It measures the performance and battery life of the device as a complete unit rather than a set of isolated components. And its tests are based on common, everyday tasks instead of abstract algorithms.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Yeah, that completely changed my opinion.*
* may contain sarcasm.

Beefheart said:
Yeah, that completely changed my opinion.*
* may contain sarcasm.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have it your way... at least , I, am actually investigating

It's in the interest of the benchmark app developers for users to believe their offerings aren't pointless.

Beefheart said:
It's in the interest of the benchmark app developers for users to believe their offerings aren't pointless.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you on this....... generally.
I however found this particular benchmark interesting for the following reasons....
1. It proves software is the biggest bottleneck in android phones, not hardware. ( Lollipop on Note3 >>beats>> kitkat onNote4 )
2. It proved that my Note 3 performs better in everyday use than my Note4 ( This I have always known but no benchmark showed it.)