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Tegra 3 = Beast!

Wow, just reading this and watching the video got me really excited!
Quote: "...its benchmark puts Kal-El at a higher performance bracket than even Intel's Core 2 Duo full-on-PC processors."
Enjoy: http://pocketnow.com/android/nvidia-quad-core-kal-el-in-android-devices-this-summer
I guess my next phone will somewhere on par with my [email protected], nah not quite but still impressive.

Its freakin ridiculous isn't it, I can't imagine how powerful wayne, logan, or even stark will be.
By the way, those are the architectures coming after Kal-El as seen in the roadmap here
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4181/...-a9s-coming-to-smartphonestablets-this-year/1

Can't wait for my Q6600 to have a little brother as well.

dreadlord369 said:
Its freakin ridiculous isn't it, I can't imagine how powerful wayne, logan, or even stark will be.
By the way, those are the architectures coming after Kal-El as seen in the roadmap here
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4181/...-a9s-coming-to-smartphonestablets-this-year/1
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Wow sick! I had a feeling the technology was gona explode once dual core starts being implemented into phones but this is just ridiculous. I wander which C2D they are comparing to though. Can't wait to play some Crysis on my phone !!

omg it looks so cool!
7

Its lie, arm can not beat intel dual core cpus for next three year
It might be better then atom dual...
Sent from my LG-SU660 using XDA App

uhh three years is too long if they havent already beat some dual core chips, least thats what i think...specially since the kal-el and omap 5 cpus and whatever qualcomm have planned are gunna be freaking awesome!

OMG!!!! Its amazing

Mobile phones better than my first PC

Well since nvidia is supposedly releasing quad core in q4 of this year I say that computers will prolly eventually die out. Especially since this year smartphone sales beat computers...just a thought
HTC HD2 w/ 2.3 : )

CTR01 said:
Well since nvidia is supposedly releasing quad core in q4 of this year I say that computers will prolly eventually die out. Especially since this year smartphone sales beat computers...just a thought
HTC HD2 w/ 2.3 : )
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Funny you mention that, I was just in uni talking about networking (my major) and technology and a classmate said the same thing. I would say it could happen in maybe 20+ years.
I would like to see a Tegra 3 rendering a complex 3D scene or something like that which would really show it's performance.

Is this the Q6600 club or what? <3
Sent from my HTC Vision using Tapatalk

I have an Athlon X3 435 at 3.6 ghz. Can go up to 3.8 ghz as well. But too much v-core.

Although they are saying these newer processors are supposed to be much more efficient, are these dual and quad core processors going to be a viable option with the today's battery technology?
Or is it going to be more of a "use it if it is available" for the app devs, and therefore negating any positive improvements in battery life?

icecold23 said:
Although they are saying these newer processors are supposed to be much more efficient, are these dual and quad core processors going to be a viable option with the today's battery technology?
Or is it going to be more of a "use it if it is available" for the app devs, and therefore negating any positive improvements in battery life?
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Yeah, I don' think the battery technology is on par or evolving on par with the processors. At this rate, we'll have "stationary" tablets with the current battery technology.

icecold23 said:
Although they are saying these newer processors are supposed to be much more efficient, are these dual and quad core processors going to be a viable option with the today's battery technology?
Or is it going to be more of a "use it if it is available" for the app devs, and therefore negating any positive improvements in battery life?
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Click to collapse
It just really depends on how optimized these cores are for power. It's not adding cores that gives a higher TDP, it's the vcore of the core and the frequency the cores run at. But really, I can't see cpus going any other way but multicore or multithread. It's more efficient for power and performance to have 2 cores running at 1 ghz each, instead of having a cpu at 2ghz that will have a higher tdp and vcore to keep it stable. If the cores are a smaller die size, then it works out perfectly.

vbetts said:
It just really depends on how optimized these cores are for power. It's not adding cores that gives a higher TDP, it's the vcore of the core and the frequency the cores run at. But really, I can't see cpus going any other way but multicore or multithread. It's more efficient for power and performance to have 2 cores running at 1 ghz each, instead of having a cpu at 2ghz that will have a higher tdp and vcore to keep it stable. If the cores are a smaller die size, then it works out perfectly.
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agreed...while im no cpu expert i do know the slight basics and did a little reading that agrees with vbetts. they said the 4 core kal-el nvidia cpu is supposed to have ~12 hours of play back for hd video...least thats what someone on a thread of mine posted...

vbetts said:
It just really depends on how optimized these cores are for power. It's not adding cores that gives a higher TDP, it's the vcore of the core and the frequency the cores run at. But really, I can't see cpus going any other way but multicore or multithread. It's more efficient for power and performance to have 2 cores running at 1 ghz each, instead of having a cpu at 2ghz that will have a higher tdp and vcore to keep it stable. If the cores are a smaller die size, then it works out perfectly.
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Yeah exactly, I personally thought the move to dual core would be sooner with a 2 500mhz core cpu or lower since that would still be better then a single 1Ghz chip.
Battery is definitely a issue, with today's technology I wonder how much these chips will consume at 100% load or when playing a game which use most of the devices grunt. On my DHD I can take it up to 1.9Ghz stable and if i'm playing FPse while at that frequency current widget show consumption of around 425mA, while at 1Ghz it's around 285mA. That's quiet a difference! So in order for these chips to be efficient they shouldn't use much more battery then todays chips.
I love my Q6600, max OC I could get was 4Ghz but it required 1.6v Vcore and on air that was HOT. Still I made it into Windows and did some benching, 13.110s on a 1MB SuperPI/1.5 XS mod
CTR01 said:
agreed...while im no cpu expert i do know the slight basics and did a little reading that agrees with vbetts. they said the 4 core kal-el nvidia cpu is supposed to have ~12 hours of play back for hd video...least thats what someone on a thread of mine posted...
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Yeah I read that as well or heard it somewhere.

Yeah exactly, I personally thought the move to dual core would be sooner with a 2 500mhz core cpu or lower since that would still be better then a single 1Ghz chip.
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If the app is multithreaded capable, then yes. Easily better. But 2 500mhz cpus would probably be best for multitasking.
Battery is definitely a issue, with today's technology I wonder how much these chips will consume at 100% load or when playing a game which use most of the devices grunt. On my DHD I can take it up to 1.9Ghz stable and if i'm playing FPse while at that frequency current widget show consumption of around 425mA, while at 1Ghz it's around 285mA. That's quiet a difference! So in order for these chips to be efficient they shouldn't use much more battery then todays chips.
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Battery has always been an issue though, even on my old Moment the battery sucked. But that's what you get with these I guess. But man, 1.9ghz stable from 1ghz! For a small platform, that's pretty damn impressive.
I love my Q6600, max OC I could get was 4Ghz but it required 1.6v Vcore and on air that was HOT. Still I made it into Windows and did some benching, 13.110s on a 1MB SuperPI/1.5 XS mod
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Ouch, how long did the chip last? I've got my 435 at 1.52vcore. I can go higher but I need this chip to last me for a year or so.

I can't believe that they set the time-frame for the release as early as they did. Hopefully they will live up to this standard

2011 Tegra 3 (Kal-El) Tablets

Hey guys,
Could someone please let me know which tablets are being/have been released in 2011 sporting the Tegra 3 (Kal-El) processor? Especially if they're out/easily importable to the UK! Thanks
*EDIT* The one I'm aware of atm is the Asus Transformer Prime - does anyone have a definite release day for this?

Prime is the only one that's anounced yet!

http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/09/transformer-prime-detailed-10-inch-super-ips-display-12-hour
"December" is still all I've heard of a release date. But it supposed to be a worldwide release so I'm assuming shortages will be a given.

mordbane said:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/09/transformer-prime-detailed-10-inch-super-ips-display-12-hour
"December" is still all I've heard of a release date. But it supposed to be a worldwide release so I'm assuming shortages will be a given.
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Ah cool, so I'll be able to order it from the UK? Hoping to get it by xmas ya know

Prime in december

Cyrano4 said:
Prime in december
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Not for the UK though?

Nice Tegra 3 is very good

Ant38 said:
Nice Tegra 3 is very good
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why? beacuse of 4 cores?
You won't use the power of them... at the moment Android doesn't use 2 cores properly
2, 4 or idk 16 cores doesn't mean that system will be faster
look at HTC 7 Mozart with WP7.5 - 1 core snapdragon with 512 MB and system is very smooth and fast
I think that producers must focus at optimization of their version of Android
making smartphones with better hardware is not a solution - it only makes more problems

darasz89 said:
why? beacuse of 4 cores?
You won't use the power of them... at the moment Android doesn't use 2 cores properly
2, 4 or idk 16 cores doesn't mean that system will be faster
look at HTC 7 Mozart with WP7.5 - 1 core snapdragon with 512 MB and system is very smooth and fast
I think that producers must focus at optimization of their version of Android
making smartphones with better hardware is not a solution - it only makes more problems
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Agree with you when you say about Android, which doesn't take full advantage of 4 cores.
But the main feature in the quad-core technology is the battery life saving.
Eventually, in the next year when there will be optimized app for dual and quad- core CPU, this tablet ( or any other 4cores phone) will rock for many, many months.

yukinok25 said:
But the main feature in the quad-core technology is the battery life saving.
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4 core CPU takes less energy than 1 core? you are wrong
yes its true that power use per 1 core in tegra3 is low but overall its larger that single or dual core

darasz89 said:
4 core CPU takes less energy than 1 core? you are wrong
yes its true that power use per 1 core in tegra3 is low but overall its larger that single or dual core
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Click to collapse
Yes, its' use less power for normal usage.
It's obvious that if you use ALL 4 cores, the drain would be more than a single core CPU:
http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/hi...n-actually-use-less-power-than-dual-core/7976
Qualcomm as well is claiming that his next generation quad core phones will save 65% of battery life compare to the current ARM CPU:
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer...debuts-single-dual-quad-core-snapdragon-chips

speculations and promises of manufacturers
the major factor of power usage is system resources managment
at start new 4-core CPU will consume more energy beacuse of lack efficient support for 4 cores - but someday it will be optimized well
but the question is: do we really need 4 cores? i think that we need better optimized sotfware
did I loose my mind? look at devices running WP7.5 and tell me that Android is smoother [I'm not a M$ fanboy ]
now with 2cores we have big computing power and it should be use efficiently

darasz89 said:
speculations and promises of manufacturers
the major factor of power usage is system resources managment
at start new 4-core CPU will consume more energy beacuse of lack efficient support for 4 cores - but someday it will be optimized well
but the question is: do we really need 4 cores? i think that we need better optimized sotfware
did I loose my mind? look at devices running WP7.5 and tell me that Android is smoother [I'm not a M$ fanboy ]
now with 2cores we have big computing power and it should be use efficiently
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I really hope is not speculation, cause we need battery life saving for our devices.
I am agree about the lack of apps optimized for a 4 cores CPU, however my I7-740Qm use less battery (I repeat on normal usage) than my old AMD Athlon XP, because of the improvement in architecture and technology such as Turbo Boost or Hyperthreading that Intel has implemented.
I believe the new 28nm CPU from Qualcomm and Nvidia will bring similar helpful features.

you're comparing normal CPU's
all the time I was talking about CPU on smartphones
difference between those two CPUs you mentioned is comparable to difference between Ford T and Ferrari Enzo
on smartphones we have limited resources - you cannot easily add f.e. 512 MB of RAM, change CPU or GPU
we have more limited hardware compared to PC
the goal is optimalization of software not adding cores to CPU or more RAM
Edit
Tegra2 and Tegra3 both have 40 nm process
Source

@OP
2011 is not a good year for hunting Tegra 3.
With only one product Asus TF Prime out, it could happen like the Xoom launch.
Although the prime seems like a very nice upgrade, I'm already reading about Lenovo and Acer bringing 1920*1200 res screens.
I know you may have your preference on your Manufacturer, I do too, but it's better to wait a bit to see all the players then choose.
I waited a bit and got a Galaxy Tab 10.1 one of the best tegra 2 tablets. Really interested in what Samsung can bring in 2012.

darasz89 said:
you're comparing normal CPU's
all the time I was talking about CPU on smartphones
difference between those two CPUs you mentioned is comparable to difference between Ford T and Ferrari Enzo
on smartphones we have limited resources - you cannot easily add f.e. 512 MB of RAM, change CPU or GPU
we have more limited hardware compared to PC
the goal is optimalization of software not adding cores to CPU or more RAM
Edit
Tegra2 and Tegra3 both have 40 nm process
Source
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Yup that was just an example darasz89
Why do you think we have limited resources? Would you expect 2 years ago that one day we would use a smartphone big like 2 packs of cigarettes combined together, with a full OS installed, 4 cores, and 1GB of RAM?
Mobile technology is the future. We will see much more hopefully...
Yup, only Qualcomm for now will use 28nm technlogy.

priority of Android devices should be optimized software before hardware
I don't think that way you see the future of Android is bad, but first we should use all of "given power" of 2 core CPU and after that extend to 4core
funny summary: "With great power comes great responsibility."

Just pre-ordered prime from my local Future Shop. *Anxiously awaiting*

darasz89 said:
priority of Android devices should be optimized software before hardware
I don't think that way you see the future of Android is bad, but first we should use all of "given power" of 2 core CPU and after that extend to 4core
funny summary: "With great power comes great responsibility."
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Actually that should be the priority of software in general, but wrriting good code is hard enough. Right now, ever since the software crisis, hardware has always been two three steps ahead of software, and right now it is in a way a good thing. You don't want a software to be lagging on your computer because its not powerful enough right? You'd rather have the extra juice to power any software with ease.

Hey guys!! According to bestbuy canada, the expected warehouse delivery date is December 5, 2011. Not going to check elsewhere, but just an FYI to all who asked.
Link

Octa core Exynos no better than snapdragon, so no more whining/boasting

http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/06/samsung-galaxy-s4-octacore-review/
The A15 in the octa-core isn't any better or worse than the krait in the snapdragon, either in performance or benchmarks. The extra four helper cores you get doesn't improve battery life. In fact, with the four a15 cores, it is actually WORSE than the more efficient krait cores. All those people bragging about how much the A15 is better than the krait based on thin air speculation really need to shove it up their butt.
It was already expected that the four extra low power cores in an octa core would not make much difference in battery life and actually be worse off than a regular quad-core processor. History has already shown with the Tegra 3's helper core that utilizing low power helper cores is a tricky and inefficient affair. It's not easy to switch between them, to prioritize when to use what, and instead of making a more efficient A15 design, Samsung relied too much on the chip's switching capabilities instead of making an overall better processor.
So if you want LTE, BETTER BATTERY LIFE, rom compatibility and dev support with the most widespread SoC, actual availability in stores everywhere, then stop waiting or worrying about the Exynos octa-core and pick the widely available snapdragon version of the S4. Anyone still spouting how great the octa-core version will be and still lies about it being EIGHT WHOLE CORES! when there's really only four are the biggest trolls in the S4 forum.

this video show more real compasion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wt5im3WAZYc

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2258519

Heh, load of bullcrap.
If you do video battery tests you do them on Wi-Fi, congratulations on testing modem battery life. (Same carrier? Same tower? Same time of day? Bravo on apples vs oranges Engadget)
The benchmarks ARE faster on the 9500. Let's not mention that Engadget are incompetent fools who don't understand benchmarking. The Linpack scores are a joke as is CF-bench, one because the benchmark literally takes 0.3s and if you're idling before you press the start button that's not even though time for the CPU to ramp up to highest speed. CF-bench fails due to thermal throttling. At least that's a valid negative point, but not performance, scores are far beyond the 30k mark. I'm also getting funny more realistic results on the other benches: 661ms vs 732 SunSpider, 10% higher Vellamo score, 300 more 3D rating, and I'm sure there's others. Funny how they suddenly don't use GeekBench.
Matter of fact: the 9500 is undoubtedly faster and that's a technical reality. They even state so in their subjective comparison.
As for battery life: I've already mentioned how the early firmware is unfinished. I'm getting roughly 10% per hour usage; right now at 61% and 3h30 screen, and that's with doing benchmarks for the last half hour which ate 9%.
The only correct *video* battery life tests I've seen came from GSMArena (9505) and Russian mobile-review who got 12h.
You're going to have to wait for AnandTech to do a review in a few months to be able to use it as argumental material in such discussions.
Engadget is the pinnacle of ignorance and technical non-reporting, and as they've proved in their botched S3 review last year, the benchmarking seems to be done by the principal of their local baboon academy.

katamari201 said:
All those people bragging about how much the A15 is better than the krait based on thin air speculation really need to shove it up their butt.
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I don't think people thought that devices using Octa vs. S-600 wouldn't perform comparably. It would make no sense for Samsung not to optimize both to the best of their ability and S-600 is a powerful and efficient chip. You can't help but get the feeling that the s/w isn't "done" on either version based on comments on all the SGS4 forums about lag and display driver issues. That's echoed by some of AndreiLux's comments from looking at the code. Octa is literally the first public implementation of big.LITTLE. All of ARM’s future designs will be based on it. That means Qualcomm’s next generation of chips after S-800 will be based on it also as they license ARM’s designs. I'd expect over time that updates will continue to improve Octa's performance (power and efficiency) whereas S-600 is simply a massaged version of S4 Pro and the OEMs have a lot more experience working with it so there's less upside potential. I'd still buy the i9500 over the i9505 if I were going to get a SGS4 (I'm waiting for the N3) as I think its long-term potential is greater than S-600 and, going forward, I'd expect it to be used in more Samsung devices once Qualcomm's RF360 universal LTE baseband becomes available. Once that happens, unless there's production capacity issues, there no reason Octa wouldn't be Samsung go-to high-end chip. Just my opinion of course.
P.S. - The i9500 has about 250MB more free RAM (13%) than the i9505 as Adreno reserves 500MB for itself while PowerVR reserves a little over 200MB.

matheus_sc said:
this video show more real compasion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wt5im3WAZYc
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Funny thing is you do the same comparison on another I9505 or I9500 and it will most probably yield different results... they are too close to compare
---------- Post added at 11:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:38 AM ----------
BarryH_GEG said:
P.S. - The i9500 has about 250MB more free RAM (13%) than the i9505 as Adreno reserves 500MB for itself while PowerVR reserves a little over 200MB.
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Really? Where is the source for this? Anyone like to show free ram comparisons between both devices? I am sitting around 750mb free ram,I am Stock Rooted, I have 5 active applications open... And I still have most of the samsung bloat

BarryH_GEG said:
P.S. - The i9500 has about 250MB more free RAM (13%) than the i9505 as Adreno reserves 500MB for itself while PowerVR reserves a little over 200MB.
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None of that memory on neither SoCs is allocated to the GPUs. Video memory is reserved on-the-fly from user-space. That unavailable memory is dedicated to camera controllers, image processors, video decoder, and a bunch of other smaller buffers.

katamari201 said:
http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/06/samsung-galaxy-s4-octacore-review/
The A15 in the octa-core isn't any better or worse than the krait in the snapdragon, either in performance or benchmarks. The extra four helper cores you get doesn't improve battery life. In fact, with the four a15 cores, it is actually WORSE than the more efficient krait cores. All those people bragging about how much the A15 is better than the krait based on thin air speculation really need to shove it up their butt.
It was already expected that the four extra low power cores in an octa core would not make much difference in battery life and actually be worse off than a regular quad-core processor. History has already shown with the Tegra 3's helper core that utilizing low power helper cores is a tricky and inefficient affair. It's not easy to switch between them, to prioritize when to use what, and instead of making a more efficient A15 design, Samsung relied too much on the chip's switching capabilities instead of making an overall better processor.
So if you want LTE, BETTER BATTERY LIFE, rom compatibility and dev support with the most widespread SoC, actual availability in stores everywhere, then stop waiting or worrying about the Exynos octa-core and pick the widely available snapdragon version of the S4. Anyone still spouting how great the octa-core version will be and still lies about it being EIGHT WHOLE CORES! when there's really only four are the biggest trolls in the S4 forum.
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Get ornery myself some times. Trust me on this, go out, find some nice young lady, make her see God. Later when you read this and are wondering what the hell you were thinking you can apologize. Everybody wins. :good:

Well Said, AMEN
Well said Krabman.....
katamari201 said:
http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/06/samsung-galaxy-s4-octacore-review/
The A15 in the octa-core isn't any better or worse than the krait in the snapdragon, either in performance or benchmarks. The extra four helper cores you get doesn't improve battery life. In fact, with the four a15 cores, it is actually WORSE than the more efficient krait cores. All those people bragging about how much the A15 is better than the krait based on thin air speculation really need to shove it up their butt.
It was already expected that the four extra low power cores in an octa core would not make much difference in battery life and actually be worse off than a regular quad-core processor. History has already shown with the Tegra 3's helper core that utilizing low power helper cores is a tricky and inefficient affair. It's not easy to switch between them, to prioritize when to use what, and instead of making a more efficient A15 design, Samsung relied too much on the chip's switching capabilities instead of making an overall better processor.
So if you want LTE, BETTER BATTERY LIFE, rom compatibility and dev support with the most widespread SoC, actual availability in stores everywhere, then stop waiting or worrying about the Exynos octa-core and pick the widely available snapdragon version of the S4. Anyone still spouting how great the octa-core version will be and still lies about it being EIGHT WHOLE CORES! when there's really only four are the biggest trolls in the S4 forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

AndreiLux said:
None of that memory on neither SoCs is allocated to the GPUs. Video memory is reserved on-the-fly from user-space. That unavailable memory is dedicated to camera controllers, image processors, video decoder, and a bunch of other smaller buffers.
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People were saying the i9505 has 1.5GB of available RAM while the i9500 has 1.8GB. Is that true? If it is, what's contributing to the difference?

BarryH_GEG said:
People were saying the i9505 has 1.5GB of available RAM while the i9500 has 1.8GB. Is that true? If it is, what's contributing to the difference?
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No, it's not true. My i9505 have 1.78gb of RAM available.

BarryH_GEG said:
People were saying the i9505 has 1.5GB of available RAM while the i9500 has 1.8GB. Is that true? If it is, what's contributing to the difference?
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loollll no ... where are ppl coming up with this nonsense

Who cares really when are we gonna use the phone at max capacity? And 3 months later something better will be out so quit your *****ing and enjoy ya phone
Sent from my GT-I9505 using xda premium

By the time Verizon ships my S4, the next super phone will be out! Seriously, I've got to quit reading these forums.
Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk 2

1.78gb ram on I9505 here

In any device even low end device you will not find the full ram visible as some is reserved exclusively of the system.
Also the post was on difference between Octa and Quall why would you expect a significant different as if that happens samsung would be trouble because they are the same device right S4 so samsung would tuned both in a way that the performance battery life is almost the same that hows it should be right you cannot say my s4 is slower then yours bec I purchased it from US ????

BarryH_GEG said:
People were saying the i9505 has 1.5GB of available RAM while the i9500 has 1.8GB. Is that true? If it is, what's contributing to the difference?
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Click to collapse
It really doesn't made a huge difference on Android devices. The extra memory just allows you to have more applications paused in the background before the kernel kills them to free up space. With the S3 if you're playing a game and switch to a web browser it's very likely that the game will be closed as it only has 1GB. On the S4 it will stay open in the background.

katamari201 said:
http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/06/samsung-galaxy-s4-octacore-review/
The A15 in the octa-core isn't any better or worse than the krait in the snapdragon, either in performance or benchmarks. The extra four helper cores you get doesn't improve battery life. In fact, with the four a15 cores, it is actually WORSE than the more efficient krait cores. All those people bragging about how much the A15 is better than the krait based on thin air speculation really need to shove it up their butt.
It was already expected that the four extra low power cores in an octa core would not make much difference in battery life and actually be worse off than a regular quad-core processor. History has already shown with the Tegra 3's helper core that utilizing low power helper cores is a tricky and inefficient affair. It's not easy to switch between them, to prioritize when to use what, and instead of making a more efficient A15 design, Samsung relied too much on the chip's switching capabilities instead of making an overall better processor.
So if you want LTE, BETTER BATTERY LIFE, rom compatibility and dev support with the most widespread SoC, actual availability in stores everywhere, then stop waiting or worrying about the Exynos octa-core and pick the widely available snapdragon version of the S4. Anyone still spouting how great the octa-core version will be and still lies about it being EIGHT WHOLE CORES! when there's really only four are the biggest trolls in the S4 forum.
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Amazing! Where were you all these days??
BTW, I don't have to wait, nor do I have to worry about getting a I9500. Stores near me don't have any Snapdragon variant. I think it's always a good practise not to take advise from a random person in the forums.
Nobody asked for your advise on what version to get. People are knowledgeable enough to make that decision.

[NEWS]Samsung announced the Heterogeneous Multi-Processing (HMP) for Exynos 5 Octa

http://www.samsung.com/global/busin...eterogeneous_Multi_Processing_Capability.html
This is breaking good news for us, though it's still unclear if it's for 5420 only or can be implemented into 5410 through update as well.
If you've been paying attention, you know that the Exynos 5 Octa packs a serious punch when it comes to processing power and energy efficiency. Now, the team at Samsung has made the Exynos 5 Octa even better with the introduction of a new Heterogeneous Multi-Processing (HMP) solution.
Overview of big.LITTLE Technology
Before we jump into the benefits of HMP, let's take a step back and go over the basics ofARM® big.LITTLE technology. In the Exynos 5 Octa, eight CPU cores are responsible for everything from browsing the web to playing your favorite game on your 5 Octa-powered mobile device. Four "big" 1.8GHz ARM® Cortex™-A15 cores handle intensive tasks like graphically rich gaming or HD video playback. Less intensive tasks like e-mail or text functions are tackled by four "LITTLE" 1.3GHz Cortex™-A7 cores. By dividing and conquering tasks and assigning them to the proper CPU cores, big.LITTLE technology maximizes performance while minimizing power loss.
HMP Makes big.LITTLE Technology Even Better
Now this is where HMP comes into play. Like a sports team, big.LITTLE technology relies on a software "coach" to call the plays and assign tasks to each core. In a basic implementation of big.LITTLE technology, this "coach" would alternate between using "big" and "LITTLE" CPU cores based on the computational intensity of any given task, and one core or cluster of cores would remain inactive while its counterpart was engaged.
With HMP, all eight of the CPU cores in the Exynos 5 Octa can be utilized at the same time. This provides users with an unlimited mobile experience in the current mobile environment and also paves the way for more advanced and complex functionality in the future. HMP is extremely versatile. Using a global load balancing scheduler, HMP can assign a single core to handle a task with low computational intensity in order to maximize power efficiency. On the flipside, HMP can also simultaneously utilize each of the eight individual cores in the 5 Octa to run multiple tasks in real time. The global load balancing scheduler pays attention to user workloads and will pull in the necessary available resources for the system to run flexibly and efficiently. By analyzing and assigning tasks,this highly complex software system maximizes efficiency by balancing CPU workload.
The result is the most advanced use of big.LITTLE technology to date and a huge leap forward for multi-processing capability in mobile devices. By allowing for the simultaneous operation of both "big" and "LITTLE" cores in the Exynos 5 Octa, Samsung offers an optimized HMP solution to the balancing act of maximizing mobile device capability while minimizing power loss.
Samsung has always been a leader in big.LITTLE technology, and this new Octa-core HMP solution is an industry first. HMP sets the stage for the future as mobile devices are increasingly called upon to handle complex and graphically rich tasks. Through this innovative solution, the benefits of big.LITTLE technology are maximized to their full potential. Get ready, because the future of mobile processing is evolving, and the Exynos 5 Octa with HMP is leading the way.
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well its definately about the 5420 because 1.8ghz a15 and 1.3 ghz a7 is not 5410 but 5420 sad

hypergamer1231 said:
well its definately about the 5420 because 1.8ghz a15 and 1.3 ghz a7 is not 5410 but 5420 sad
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You get your point there, however I think that's not valid enough as when Sammy do their public announcements they will (of course) talk about the better things. Everything they talk about is "up to"
Anyway I'm not sure about this. I know @AndreiLux mentioned the core migration is impossible because flawed hardware, but HMP should be another story, I guess mostly it's about the Linux kernel. Let's just wait and see.

Hopefully they will release a refreshed version of the i9500? Probably not but here's hoping.

@AndreiLux sorry if i disturbed u but now just want to clarify few things because as we all know ur the master of this Exynos thingy...
"Samsung will enable the HMP solution for its Exynos 5 Octa in Q4 2013."
source: " http://www.sammobile.com/2013/09/10...ocessing-will-be-integrated-in-exynos-5-octa/ "
is it for i9500 or it is just for the new Note 3 powered by Exynos 5420 ?

gdonanthony said:
@AndreiLuxis it for i9500 or it is just for the new Note 3 powered by Exynos 5420 ?
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most likely none of them since they said they will start using it in Q4 2013 ...and because having online all 8 cores and being able to use them all simultaneously mean considerable increase in power consumption at full load my best guess is that the first product using this implementation would be a tablet ...

AvelonTs said:
most likely none of them since they said they will start using it in Q4 2013 ...and because having online all 8 cores and being able to use them all simultaneously mean considerable increase in power consumption at full load my best guess is that the first product using this implementation would be a tablet ...
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exactly.

hypergamer1231 said:
well its definately about the 5420 because 1.8ghz a15 and 1.3 ghz a7 is not 5410 but 5420 sad
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5420 runs at 1.9GHz&1.3GHz in the Note 3, on the other hand, the 5410 can run up to 1.8GHz&1.3GHz as it does in the Korean variant GS4.
Hmmm...

AvelonTs said:
...and because having online all 8 cores and being able to use them all simultaneously mean considerable increase in power consumption at full load my best guess is that the first product using this implementation would be a tablet ...
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You don't understand power management.
POLO_i780 said:
5420 runs at 1.9GHz&1.3GHz in the Note 3, on the other hand, the 5410 can run up to 1.8GHz&1.3GHz as it does in the Korean variant GS4.
Hmmm...
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The Korean version has the same clocks as the international.
And, no, this is HMP story only concerns the 5420 products. The 5410 is dead.

Oh?
Unless SamMobile is mistaken to:
http://www.sammobile.com/2013/04/10...exynos-5-octa-kills-qualcomms-snapdragon-600/
I was always under the impression the Korean Exynos GS4 ran at max 1.8GHz, hence why it was capable of scoring +31,000 in AnTuTu.

AndreiLux said:
You don't understand power management.
The Korean version has the same clocks as the international.
And, no, this is HMP story only concerns the 5420 products. The 5410 is dead.
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thanks for the clarification
u mean 5410 is dead so there is no light for it ?
im slowly accepting now this very bad news

AndreiLux said:
You don't understand power management.
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I do not ... but pure logic says having 8 cores working at max freq all together requires more power than having 4 of them ... or any other compination of them ... or that's not possible even with an HMP enabled SoC?

AvelonTs said:
I do not ... but pure logic says having 8 cores working at max freq all together requires more power than having 4 of them ... or any other compination of them ... or that's not possible even with an HMP enabled SoC?
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Ohh. And why do you think some normal stuff would require anything more than a7 cores.. u understand that most off the apps on playstore would not require even 2 a5 cores at max logically or 4 a15s at half frequency.. so it doesnt matter that all 8 cores are online.. it only depends on how you use it.
For a power user its cherry over cake for others it is a great news for battery life..

Degrated Shadow said:
Ohh. And why do you think some normal stuff would require anything more than a7 cores.. u understand that most off the apps on playstore would not require even 2 a5 cores at max logically or 4 a15s at half frequency.. so it doesnt matter that all 8 cores are online.. it only depends on how you use it.
For a power user its cherry over cake for others it is a great news for battery life..
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Low multi-threadedness is a myth or a product of stupid programming. For one I'm making an application right now which parallelizes the whole UI loading and can make easily use of of 7+ threads scales pretty much infinitely if it's allowed to.
More cores don't cost any power, only die area. You gain tremendous dynamic range and power efficiency. Of course your theoretical peak power consumption goes up but you can just cap that with power management.
The Moto X is a good example of how a dual-core SoC can be less power efficient than a quad-core.

AndreiLux said:
Low multi-threadedness is a myth or a product of stupid programming. For one I'm making an application right now which parallelizes the whole UI loading and can make easily use of of 7+ threads scales pretty much infinitely if it's allowed to.
More cores don't cost any power, only die area. You gain tremendous dynamic range and power efficiency. Of course your theoretical peak power consumption goes up but you can just cap that with power management.
The Moto X is a good example of how a dual-core SoC can be less power efficient than a quad-core.
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I understand. But as you quote did I say the stuff wrong or right?
Sorry for dumb question. Not so good at english.

Degrated Shadow said:
I understand. But as you quote did I say the stuff wrong or right?
Sorry for dumb question. Not so good at english.
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Wrong; see for yourself :
yahyoh said:
Woah
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AndreiLux said:
Wrong; see for yourself :
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Okay understood. But honestly. If all the 8 cores are used how would anyone manage power efficiency?
A15s least frequency consumes higher amount of power than peak power consumption of A7s. Is not that so?
edit: I understood. More cores would cost only die area. They wont cost any power unless they are used more. What happens when die area is occupied more?

I dont think this will make a big difference in battery life. I think the display is the real power hungry in every android device. Also the android system itself.
Smart phone maker should focus on making lighter and smaller battery but better power capacity.
Just my opinion...
Sent from my Nokia 3210 LTE

marc_ecko28 said:
Smart phone maker should focus on making lighter and smaller battery but better power capacity.
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It's better without battery at all with infinite power capacity
Don't limit your wishes!

From Sammobile:
Chinese manufacturer Meizu has some good news. According to Meizu, HMP can be implemented through a software upgrade, and will be made available to the MX3, its current flagship that uses the same Exynos chip as the Galaxy S4. This means that we should see Samsung doing the same for its own devices, and it could be the reason why the Korean manufacturer is only showing off the new eight-core capability without naming a new Exynos chipset.
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In short, Meizu is saying that HMP is possible in 5410 Octa, as their MX3 uses it. So, is Meizu wrong?
http://www.sammobile.com/2013/09/11...-eight-core-devices-through-software-upgrade/
http://www.unwiredview.com/2013/09/...oftware-upgrade-will-get-to-current-products/

Exynos Note 3 possibly won't get HMP update from Samsung

Bad news for fellow Exynos users.
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Note...t-core-performance-patch-says-Samsung_id47977
It seems that Exynos 5420 is capable of HMP but will get too hot for the chip to handle.
But the Samsung Engineer does mention that they would comment the HMP update only after a complete testing process to ensure trouble free operation.
Note 3 and Galaxy S4 are unlikely to receive the full octa-core power in their Exynos chipset versions, advised a chief technical expert from Samsung's Mobile Solutions department. Recently the company said that it is able to unleash all the eight cores working at once, which can bump performance significantly, compared to the maximum of four cores restriction we have now with Exynos 5 Octa in these handsets.
The thing is, the engineer comments, that even though Samsung can release a software patch that will allow both the quad-core Cortex-A15 set, and the frugal Cortex-A7 cores, to get together for a task, the thermal envelope of these Exynos chips hasn't been cut for the job.
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i think this is a good move, they can't force this and overheat the phones.
im tempted to buy the exynos here in saudi as they are cheaper than the snapdragon ones even without the 4k part....

system.img said:
Bad news for fellow Exynos users.
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Note...t-core-performance-patch-says-Samsung_id47977
It seems that Exynos 5420 is capable of HMP but will get too hot for the chip to handle.
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out of 3 aspects of big little(core migration,cluster migration,hmp), core migration is the most important aspect, since the hardware is fixed any custome kernel for exynos note 3 moght have core migration which will surely increase the battery efficiency

bala_gamer said:
out of 3 aspects of big little(core migration,cluster migration,hmp), core migration is the most important aspect, since the hardware is fixed any custome kernel for exynos note 3 moght have core migration which will surely increase the battery efficiency
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So Exynos 5420 has Core migration instead of cluster migration?

bala_gamer said:
out of 3 aspects of big little(core migration,cluster migration,hmp), core migration is the most important aspect, since the hardware is fixed any custome kernel for exynos note 3 moght have core migration which will surely increase the battery efficiency
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Nah. HMP is the real thing. Said Andreilux
HMP is extremely useful for power efficiency because you can migrate stupidly faster than DVFS allows you to.
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Sent from My GT i9300

If its true, then its very dissapointing step from Samsung
My question is, if there is so much problems in that chip then why he is selling these faulty chip...and why in india, asian and african small countries where government dont do anything agains this kind of behaviour...and costmers also ignoring these issue..which not good for future.
1 many problems in s4
2 sim locking
3 knockon
....many more ..and some may be coming soon
And now no HMP update for s4 or note 3 ...seems like samsung has over confident of their market share and profit...
Isnt this is kind of monopoly???

ipsuvedi said:
If its true, then its very dissapointing step from Samsung
My question is, if there is so much problems in that chip then why he is selling these faulty chip...and why in india, asian and african small countries where government dont do anything agains this kind of behaviour...and costmers also ignoring these issue..which not good for future.
1 many problems in s4
2 sim locking
3 knockon
....many more ..and some may be coming soon
And now no HMP update for s4 or note 3 ...seems like samsung has over confident of their market share and profit...
Isnt this is kind of monopoly???
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Click to collapse
Samsung wants to maximise profits by selling phones made with its in-house chip but is not able to integrate LTE in the chip. So, all it can do is to sell the phone with the Exynos chip in non-LTE areas.
But still, I think the Exynos is good too. It's CPU is damn powerful(considering a clock speed of only 1.9 Ghz)

Thermal problems are a poor excuse considering cluster migration is going to be much worse for thermals.
It's also a poor excuse considering HMP is best for power efficiency, meaning over all temperatures should be lower.
Unless they're worried that people will benchmark each thread and burn the chip out, but all they need to do is put thermal throttles and speed throttles with large A15 use.
I don't want to say Samsung are lazy because that's simply a stupid thing to say. Obviously all of this is very difficult and Samsung don't have the right combination and amount of time, talent and money to make it happen.
Core migration is going to be fine, anyway. If they ever bother with that.
Still disappointing anyway :/
Sent from my GT-N7100 using xda premium

SirCanealot said:
Thermal problems are a poor excuse considering cluster migration is going to be much worse for thermals.
It's also a poor excuse considering HMP is best for power efficiency, meaning over all temperatures should be lower.
Unless they're worried that people will benchmark each thread and burn the chip out, but all they need to do is put thermal throttles and speed throttles with large A15 use.
I don't want to say Samsung are lazy because that's simply a stupid thing to say. Obviously all of this is very difficult and Samsung don't have the right combination and amount of time, talent and money to make it happen.
Core migration is going to be fine, anyway. If they ever bother with that.
Still disappointing anyway :/
Sent from my GT-N7100 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They have the Linaro team to do the work. They have already accomplished it but it has been shown off with only a prototype tablet.

ipsuvedi said:
If its true, then its very dissapointing step from Samsung
My question is, if there is so much problems in that chip then why he is selling these faulty chip...and why in india, asian and african small countries where government dont do anything agains this kind of behaviour...and costmers also ignoring these issue..which not good for future.
1 many problems in s4
2 sim locking
3 knockon
....many more ..and some may be coming soon
And now no HMP update for s4 or note 3 ...seems like samsung has over confident of their market share and profit...
Isnt this is kind of monopoly???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, someone write a news without any confermation and users say it's good
So.. now.. i'm going to write a news.. santa is real! And all beleave in it..
Too many sheeps in the world
Big little is over any other arch.. it has the best efficiency ever.. and will have it with hmp..
Yup, if you turn on all 8 cores in maxfreq for 10 minutes.. phone burns.. but.. the logic of big little is: use low power cores (A7) for low tasks.. use high power cores (a15) for hugh tasks..
Than.. now you are using the cluater migration, it has 2 "bugs"
1) all cluster switch, so, is alminented the A15 even if it's not necessary, it happes when 1 core goes to A15
2) the switch from 2 clusters blocks computation for little time
The core migration fix the first problem of cluster migration
The hmp fix each 2 "problems"
So.. if cluater migration is good.. core migration is better, and hmp is better and better
Hmp has high overheating? Well, so n3 with cluster will have more overheating.. all with n3 has this issue?
for me.. all of you use too less the brain.. brain is a muscle.. use it!

I do not find thermal envelope explanation for HMP logical. Cluster Migration switches all the cores to A15 even when one thread requires power hence this design is more battery hungry. If Samsung is really worried about crossing thermal envelope, then they can implement something like Intel has done which they call it Turbo Boost. They can effectively reduce max clock speed to 1.5 GHz when all A15 are running but allow it to run to 1.9 GHz when only 1 or two threads are running.
If Samsung refuses to do so, I hope developers find ways to unlock HMP. It is not that I need 8 cores running simultaneously when my laptop hums at 1.3GHz in dual core mode, but when Samsung teases us and there is treasure hidden ready for unlocking, then it is just human nature to want MORE.

voice of my heart
Absolutely right brother. The die hard snapdragon fans can not digest the Exynos big Little processing and just throwing out rumors and I am really shocked how people believe it. I saw in many discussions that readers and mostly writers were not even software or hardware literate they were just speaking and forwarding the rumors. Actually due to lack of sdk from Samsung for exynos the third party custom rom writers can not do much in exynos as they were able to do in snapdragon so this makes them angry and they spread rumors. I have note 3 SM900 exynos and previously I had s4 exynos one. Did not face any problem in s4 ever and it's my 4th day with note 3 and going great so far. In my thinking the little big processing is better than all 8 cores working at the same time and people should see that the big a15 quad core 1.9 ghz gave very very closer benchmarks test results to Snapdragon 800 2.3 ghz and some were higher. People don't understand the chip architecture and just play on rumors.
iba21 said:
Well, someone write a news without any confermation and users say it's good
So.. now.. i'm going to write a news.. santa is real! And all beleave in it..
Too many sheeps in the world
Big little is over any other arch.. it has the best efficiency ever.. and will have it with hmp..
Yup, if you turn on all 8 cores in maxfreq for 10 minutes.. phone burns.. but.. the logic of big little is: use low power cores (A7) for low tasks.. use high power cores (a15) for hugh tasks..
Than.. now you are using the cluater migration, it has 2 "bugs"
1) all cluster switch, so, is alminented the A15 even if it's not necessary, it happes when 1 core goes to A15
2) the switch from 2 clusters blocks computation for little time
The core migration fix the first problem of cluster migration
The hmp fix each 2 "problems"
So.. if cluater migration is good.. core migration is better, and hmp is better and better
Hmp has high overheating? Well, so n3 with cluster will have more overheating.. all with n3 has this issue?
for me.. all of you use too less the brain.. brain is a muscle.. use it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

willstay said:
I do not find thermal envelope explanation for HMP logical. Cluster Migration switches all the cores to A15 even when one thread requires power hence this design is more battery hungry. If Samsung is really worried about crossing thermal envelope, then they can implement something like Intel has done which they call it Turbo Boost. They can effectively reduce max clock speed to 1.5 GHz when all A15 are running but allow it to run to 1.9 GHz when only 1 or two threads are running.
If Samsung refuses to do so, I hope developers find ways to unlock HMP. It is not that I need 8 cores running simultaneously when my laptop hums at 1.3GHz in dual core mode, but when Samsung teases us and there is treasure hidden ready for unlocking, then it is just human nature to want MORE.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People doesen't understand what is an hotplug and how it works
The real goal of that arch is called "power gating".. simply it's a technique developed by intel witch AUTO shuts down transistors if those are not in use..
The hotplug uses a software decision to shut down cores.. it's not hardware..
the difference?
Simply, for linux, all cores are everytime turned on, even if the transistors of the core are shutted down.. that's prevent time spent to re-schedule the tasks.. and sure.. linux is a multithreading kernel, it means, more core = more parallelization = less frequency = less power usage
That's the real goal of big.little!
And you understand, if there are 8 cores.. tasks will be shared on more cores, it means it has the best efficiency ever
An ex.. phone ALWAYS have low tasks to be compilet to permit the phone using.. as like the audio task, video task, or, wireless taks.. well, why use an high performance arch for low performance tasks? That's why arm creates A7..
CORTEX.A7 has the best efficiency ever.. so.. the same task in a cortexA7 is compiled with LESS ENERGY than other arch.. so.. it's a perfect way to preserve energy
Sure, A7 is not a performance arch, that's why arm choses to create the A15.. when tasks are too high to be compiled with an A7.. system auto switch task on a A15.. so.. the goal is.. low tasks in A7 (best efficiency) and high tasks in A15 (best performance)
Mix best efficiency + best performance = best arch :thumbup:

Got a feeling they're testing the HMP tech / heat / performance / power consump in NOTE 3 already .........
They were brave enough to have it on display at an exhibition ..... the update seems promising from what I can see!
On the "tune.pk" site there's a "video 1058551" showing "Samsung-Exynos5420-HMP-bigLITTLE-demo" with all 8-cores running!
Hoping to see some actual benchmarks so we know what the before / after results are like!!!

gudodayn said:
Got a feeling they're testing the HMP tech / heat / performance / power consump in NOTE 3 already .........
They were brave enough to have it on display at an exhibition ..... the update seems promising from what I can see!
On the "tune.pk" site there's a "video 1058551" showing "Samsung-Exynos5420-HMP-bigLITTLE-demo" with all 8-cores running!
Hoping to see some actual benchmarks so we know what the before / after results are like!!!
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I'd be inclined to agree with you. The Lite/Neo Note 3 has it enabled for all 6 cores apparently according to Sammobile

radicalisto said:
I'd be inclined to agree with you. The Lite/Neo Note 3 has it enabled for all 6 cores apparently according to Sammobile
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The lady from Samsung and Samsung wasnt hiding the Note3 device either ……
My contract is up soon ……
I hope benchmarks show up soon so I can get an idea of either the LTE or 3G one to get!

If you see some of the tweets of SamsungExynos on twitter here https://twitter.com/SamsungExynos it's easy to have a wild guess HMP will be soon released, just a wild guess though looking at their tweets.

radicalisto said:
I'd be inclined to agree with you. The Lite/Neo Note 3 has it enabled for all 6 cores apparently according to Sammobile
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5260 in note3 lite is obbly to be used with hmp.. why?
Cluster and core migrations may have the equal numbers of cores for each clusters, or kernel code won't works
I don't think if samsung will release hmp for the n900 or not.. the only thing i could say is: if samsung will relase a good source code.. I will extract the hmp from the note3 lite code , modify, and add it in my own kernel build.. and this for all kernel modders..
sure, i hope for a direct hmp upgrade by samsung, it will be better, but, we'll do all to try to run it..
I tryed to compile a code takken from internet witch tryes to load hmp.. but.. no possibilities due to an incompatibility with too mouch dependencies of the kernel code, traduct, actual source code is RUBBISH!
We are running universal drivers without any CCI code nor the real base of hmp..
source code core and cluster migration were writes TWO YEARS AGO!
We are runnin a code wroted for the 5410!! Not the 5420!!
That's why our exy suks compared to hmp features!

**** you samsung

Why do we want HMP activated ? The Android OS is not that advanced to be able to manage heat & conserve batteries even on KitKat. Enabling HMP will only ruin the phone hardware and shorting its age. Decision must have been made with careful reasonings.