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Since most D2 users feel the picture quality is only so so , has anyone found a way / .cab to allow the camera to store the picture in RAW format which enables postprocessing with sw like photoshop? Otherwise any tweaks / .cabs to patch the default JPEG & better noise reduction?
I'd go for that too ... although maybe there's only so much you can do with a 5 meg camera ?
Hi
I'd go for that too ... although maybe there's only so much you can do with a 5 meg camera ?
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That got me thinking, my full-sized camera is only 5 megs (a Nikon and had it a while) but takes absolutely stunning pictures.
It isn't the number of pixels reducing the quality, it is the quality of the optics. You can't expect much out of a lens the size of the one included in Topaz.
I don't think having a RAW output would help matters any.
Regards
Phil
Actually, sensor quality is the biggest issue here. Phone camera sensors are tiny and thus don't have the same image fidelity of sensors in dedicated cams. Sure, they're pulling 5MPs out like a point and shoot, but there's a lot less light sensitivity in them. Take the same shot with a cell phone and with a DSLR into an app like Adobe Lightroom and increse the brightness (not exposure). On the DSLR shot, you'd instantly see the extra detail come out of the shadows. On the cell phone shot, you'd see mostly noise and detail masked with noise.
On sensors this size, i doubt the lens would make much difference. The difference between plastic and glass (i believe) is mostly academic. About the best you could hope for is reduced chromatic abherration and flaring, but no manufacturer is going to waste the kind of money necessary to put pro-level or even prosumer glass on a phone, particularly one with a standard-sized sensor.
Also, try the demo version of Neat Image:
http://www.neatimage.com/download.html
It'll batch process up to two images. It's not a deep as the pro version, but it gets the job done.
I seem to be alone in liking the photo quality on the TD2! You need good lighting, and if you stick to ISO100 (200 at a pinch) and reduce "brightness" by "1", the results are better than a lot of compact cameras I've used. The colours in particular are excellent, and bar the occasional strange HTC processing artifact, the detail level is very good, both in the centre and into the corners. For it's minute size, the lens actually impresses me. Where the lens falls down is shooting into the sun, a stiff test for most compacts, but you could still shade it with your hand.
I think HTC's software image processing (noise reduction etc) is actually good, they don't mess with the image as much as some mainstream camera manufacturers. You get more noise, but you get more detail left too, which I prefer. I've printed some of the pics from the TD2 onto A4, and they look superb, you couldn't tell them apart from a normal compact camera.
The only issue I have is at higher ISOs (400+). I don't find the noise a problem but I get horizontal interference lines as well which are intrusive.
I suppose there might be a lot of sample variance in such a "cheap" camera though, so just because I was lucky with mine doesn't mean everyone will have got a good one.
Pete_S said:
The only issue I have is at higher ISOs (400+). I don't find the noise a problem but I get horizontal interference lines as well which are intrusive.
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Indeed these horizontal interference lines is what ticks me.
I'll try your settings and see if the image quality improves.
... and unfortunately I don't think you can get rid of the interference, RAW or not. It's probably getting in via the power supply to the camera, or maybe being picked up directly, from the main processor or one of the radios. Turning the phone radio off whilst taking high ISO pics might help, I haven't tried it yet. It's the price for so much digital in such a small space. At least low ISO pics aren't affected.
I'm also really interested in raw capturing. Think on some pics we will be able to have higher quality...
Guys still can't leave this idea! I really impressed by diamond2 camera. And i think that even if we would be able to capture uncompressed data from camera, png formant for example, it would be super and would give us some space for enhancements...
for WM there are so much software, and now alternative camera soft?
Or maybe video for 30fps?
Since most D2 users feel the picture quality is only so so
Well i know that some phones have its camera function as "main argument" but other functions usually suffer there. Here we have complex device, and its camera from my point of view make decent picture.
https://www.dropbox.com/gallery/5020311/1/soso?h=7b9477
Just made +1 on contrast to have wider dynamic range, and +1 on sharpness cause internal sharp algorithm is crap, if i need i'll boost contrast and sharp in lightroom. And i have very good pictures, this phone easily replace my compact camera.
It would be nice to hear some opinions on this following thoughts I've had, ever since I upgraded my phone last year from an iPhone 3G (2.5mp camera I think) to an Xperia Arc S, which at the time was the highest quality / size MP camera on a phone at 8MP, which is still a decent size for a phone camera today, as mid-ranged phones usually start at around 5-8MP and the super smart phones these days are running upward of 10MP, I think 13MP is the highest, at least on Android, that Nokia Symbian phone was like... 42MP? Or at least the fidelity / quality resembled that due to its massive lens housing, god knows what was in there, but if I remember rightly it was only 5MP images... Someone correct me.
Anyway, with my Arc S at 8MP, the images are fairly decent, I mean they're never going to be used for print, so it doesn't really need to be higher. However, as an art graduate, I spend time when I can taking photographs, and I have a 14MP Sony NEX 5, which as standard is already a better quality sensor than the tiny ones that make it into a phone.
My first point is it's still only 1MP higher than these smartphones, which makes me think; say I upgrade my phone in 1 year when 16MP is the highest, now we've gone over, for me I'm reluctant to go higher than my camera because I'd probably be swayed to using the phone more for photography, though the phones would probably have to be double the MP of a decent camera to really compare.
Secondly, Lenses, well the one on my Arc S is fairly standard, though probably more complex than some others as I think it has 7 layers of various shaped pieces of glass. But when it comes down to it, any photographer will tell you it's almost 100% the lens that really makes a photograph what it is, the phones are getting better quality, but the lenses probably aren't, the phones are constantly trying to get thinner which doesn't help matters, but phones have actually gotten fatter sue to bigger screens needing bigger battery, so I'm unsure on this part of the topic.
The lenses I use on my NEX are Canon FD mounts, a format from the early to mid 70's all the way up to about 1994, they are manual lenses because of their age and incompatibility with modern auto-focus, but the quality is superb, and I'm not just saying it, one of the lenses is a 1.4 50mm prime, and can do some great shots, though the camera isn't full frame so the lens works out at 75mm, but I also have a 28mm 2.2 (I think?) prime, which works out around 42mm and is really good.
Both lenses are dated between 1972 and 1982, and no current phone could replicate the fidelity, bokeh and colour, which is one of the reasons why proper cameras will always have the advantage. (The NEX doesn't have a mirror inside so can replicate the original setup of older cameras easily, meaning a huge number of adaptors allows tons of different lenses to become available)
However with the Nokia pureview phone (still don't remember its name... 850?...) It had a body capable of housing some very interesting tech, that hasn't really been used since, at least to my knowledge. Seeing some pictures online really showed you what this phone was capable of, I think the resolution of the images were in the ten thousands X whatever, and remained really sharp, for a phone at least. Maybe it's lack of success is due to it been on a non-leading OS at the time, I can imagine people would want a camera with maybe an Android phone? (Which apparently, Nokia are working on) so maybe it will see it's true colours shine on a larger base OS. If this tech is worth the larger body size of a phone, people are going to want it...
And lastly, Convenience. One of the main points of having a camera is to be able to capture moments WHENEVER, and having a decent camera on a phone has been a growing trend over the past few years, with the growth of social networks, YouTube and Instagram. And you're more likely to have a phone with you than a camera for a situation that's spontaneous.
So what are peoples thoughts? A few months back Jessops one of the leading camera sales company in the UK went into administration, with only a few stores been saved;
Will we see a heightening trend amongst phones been used instead of standalone cameras?
Will they (DSLR's etc) be phased out completely?
Are you an avid photographer with your phone, or do you use a standalone camera?
Am I wrong?
I'd like to hear some opinions, hopefuly some educated ones on the subject will give a sense on the spectrum of issues.
Another point to consider, Smart-Cameras, the new trend of cameras running Android, though I don't think any have interchangeable lenses.
Thanks for reading, also... You may need to change some 'if's to 'of's because my phone has a habit of changing my words.
Sent from my LT18i using xda app-developers app
I use my phone for everyday rubbish shots (whatsapp and such) and storing information (bustimes, lists, important stuff i take a snapshot of.) .
It will NEVER replace my DSLR.
It simply lacks the functionalities of one. So long as I can't set aperture and change lenses, it's not a real camera. I need my telezoom and macro lenses.
You can't seriously expect a phone, even that 42mp one to be as high - quality as a dslr. Too many pixels crammed into way too small a sensor. As it has always been with phones.
Not to mention, phones lack the power of a dslr. Ever tried taking nightshots with a phone? They're bad. Very bad. Or high speed shots. Nuhuh, they cant. Or far-zoom?
Lets face it, cameras on phones are not meant for professionals. They're meant for people on facebook, twitter and instagram.
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ShadowLea said:
I use my phone for everyday rubbish shots (whatsapp and such) and storing information (bustimes, lists, important stuff i take a snapshot of.) .
It will NEVER replace my DSLR.
It simply lacks the functionalities of one. So long as I can't set aperture and change lenses, it's not a real camera. I need my telezoom and macro lenses.
You can't seriously expect a phone, even that 42mp one to be as high - quality as a dslr. Too many pixels crammed into way too small a sensor. As it has always been with phones.
Not to mention, phones lack the power of a dslr. Ever tried taking nightshots with a phone? They're bad. Very bad. Or high speed shots. Nuhuh, they cant. Or far-zoom?
Lets face it, cameras on phones are not meant for professionals. They're meant for people on facebook, twitter and instagram.
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Man how can you compare a DSLR with a smartphone camera??, a DSLR is a camera with an awesome quality and the smartphone camera is only a phone with a decent camera and not for pro- photographers.. i would always choose a DLSR over a smartphone camera. And by the way i agree with ShadowLea that you can't cram 42mp in a small lens!!! it is outrageous!
Well, it's to do with trends, if you agree or not is a different matter, but lots of pro photographers and teachers will tell you if you ask, about how important this new revolution is, the quality you can get is pretty good, even compared to digital cameras less than 10 years ago.
If it can take photographs then it's a valid form, there are pro photographers then spend lots of their time using phones for photography, 5MP and decent light is enough, some of these phones are better quality than the point and shoot cameras of recent past.
Instagram, though trendy is a very valid post processing tool, just because the majority of people use it recreationaly it doesn't diminish its power, and usage.
People use Polaroid cameras all the time, and they're quite limited, and the quality can vary greatly. You can't change the lens, and you can't really adjust any settings.
Polaroid is probably most comparable to the quality of the mid range smartphones.
As for the Nokia 41MP camera phone, if you actually look at the images you can get a good sense of the quality. The short article can be found here:
http://www.extremetech.com/electron...review-camera-finally-coming-to-windows-phone
You can also easily find examples by doing an image search on Nokia Pureview.
The convenience of a very good quality camera phone can allow for great photos, which is why it's really taking off as a trend.
Denying it is the same arguments as saying Digital is better than Film, though there are still counter arguments, benefits and people still use film cameras and Polaroid.
There's a statistic recently that goes something like; there have been more photographs taken in 2012 than all previous years since photography's invention combined.
I'm not sure if that's word for word correct, but I think it was on a Vsauce YouTube video not long back.
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I think you need to understand that Professional stands for "getting paid for your work" or "being an accomplished/awarded photographer" and not "I can hold a camera!".
Yes, there have been more photo's taken in the last year than since the invention of the photograph. I do hope you are also aware that this includes every halfbrained moron on Instagram and Facebook posting their friday-night drunk shots.
No selfrespecting real photographer uses a phone's camera for his or her work. The only ones that do are either A, doing an experiment, or B, people on the internet fooling themselves into thinking they're photographers.
PHONE CAMERAS DO NOT HAVE APERATURE SETTINGS. And that's where it all ends. There isn't a single pro or semi-pro who uses a fixed aperature camera.
42MP doesn't make a bloody difference if the sensor is meant for 2MP. The photo's may look fine on the internet, but newsflash: Your monitor is 72DPI, not 300. And a 6000x6000 pixel image is always going to look amazing when downsized to 1920x1080 or lower. (which is what every website does.)
As for trends, they're for the common cattle, not semi/professionals. People with knowledge and experience pay attention to specs, not to hypes.
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ShadowLea said:
I think you need to understand that Professional stands for "getting paid for your work" or "being an accomplished/awarded photographer" and not "I can hold a camera!".
Yes, there have been more photo's taken in the last year than since the invention of the photograph. I do hope you are also aware that this includes every halfbrained moron on Instagram and Facebook posting their friday-night drunk shots.
No selfrespecting real photographer uses a phone's camera for his or her work. The only ones that do are either A, doing an experiment, or B, people on the internet fooling themselves into thinking they're photographers.
PHONE CAMERAS DO NOT HAVE APERATURE SETTINGS. And that's where it all ends. There isn't a single pro or semi-pro who uses a fixed aperature camera.
42MP doesn't make a bloody difference if the sensor is meant for 2MP. The photo's may look fine on the internet, but newsflash: Your monitor is 72DPI, not 300. And a 6000x6000 pixel image is always going to look amazing when downsized to 1920x1080 or lower. (which is what every website does.)
As for trends, they're for the common cattle, not semi/professionals. People with knowledge and experience pay attention to specs, not to hypes.
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I think you're missing my point, I meant professional photographers that use iPhones for photography for non print, recreation, street photography etc.
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For those interested in hearing a pro talk about it, I present, Chase Jarvis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buDa-m65RyA&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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So far, I'm pretty happy with this phone but very disappointed with the stock camera app. The camera does pretty well outdoors and in low light, but is terrible in moderate light conditions (i.e. normal indoor conditions.) I just took a bunch of blurry, grainy pictures of my kids with their Easter baskets that all snapped 1/2 a second after I clicked the shutter. The thing that makes me think the camera can do better is that everything looks great on the screen up until I ask it to take a photo, then it refocuses and everything goes to hell. I tried Samsung's sports mode, and that is only marginally better. My wife's new S5 is suffering from the same problem.
Has anyone had better luck with other camera apps or a change in settings? Camera Zoom FX and Google's new camera app don't seem any better. I don't care about effects, HDR, manual photo settings or gimmicks; all I want are sharp, in-focus photos that take without a bunch of lag.
Bazirker said:
So far, I'm pretty happy with this phone but very disappointed with the stock camera app. The camera does pretty well outdoors and in low light, but is terrible in moderate light conditions (i.e. normal indoor conditions.) I just took a bunch of blurry, grainy pictures of my kids with their Easter baskets that all snapped 1/2 a second after I clicked the shutter. The thing that makes me think the camera can do better is that everything looks great on the screen up until I ask it to take a photo, then it refocuses and everything goes to hell. I tried Samsung's sports mode, and that is only marginally better. My wife's new S5 is suffering from the same problem.
Has anyone had better luck with other camera apps or a change in settings? Camera Zoom FX and Google's new camera app don't seem any better. I don't care about effects, HDR, manual photo settings or gimmicks; all I want are sharp, in-focus photos that take without a bunch of lag.
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Turn picture stabilization off and it gets rid of the picture lag.
But yes, otherwise similar issues.
That's the thing. The HTC M8 wins on indoor/low light pics (if you don't get that purple blob effect), this will on outdoors. That's where the whole MP vs. sensor size come into play as larger sensor means more light but not as sharp vs. more MP means sharper but due to smaller sensor less light thus not always great.
Anyway I've found it takes me about 2 pictures to get one I like with HDR and image stabilization off. With that on that all seem to suck due to the delay. Would have been nice to have some true optical image stabilization too. Samsung just doesn't seem to learn/care though.
We get good HW but they cheap out on the little things that make it better.
Yeah, turning off stabilization, HDR etc helps, but there's still a noticeable lag. The lag bothers me less than the fact that my near-stationary subject is coming out blurry. If the camera would simply capture the exact image that is on-screen at the moment I hit the shutter, I would be thrilled...
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So here's kinda the problem. And it happens a lot with people taking pictures on your phone.
A phone was not meant to be a camera. It just wasn't. In the early days of low resolution things went faster. When you try to run 16 megabit... things are necessarily going to be harder.
Here's the easiest solution to your problems: Practice taking pictures with the phone. Keep your arms tucked in at your sides, keep the phone closer to your body. Shoot in landscape instead of portrait so your hands are in better position. I use the flip case for this phone which means I can use that as well to have better grip and stability. Take the picture... and keep the camera pointed just where you were taking the picture for at least 1/2 sec after you tap the "shutter release". Shutter lag will only be exacerbated by being too quick to move the phone. Also, you don't have to mash the on screen button, light tap and whatnot. Oh and the 1/3 of a sec focus time is their "fastest" rating. While in truth that is pretty darn decent, it's also the fastest you'll have. Expect a possible 1/2 to 3/4 sec focus time. And make sure you're PICKY about your focus. Do it over and over again if it's not right.
Also, your metering mode will have a big impact on your images. Get used to changing them to suit your subject.
I have 13+ years experience as a photographer. If it weren't absolutely absurd, and say all of my bodies died at the same time... I would be carrying a monopod or tripod for use with my GS5... Stability is the key to image quality. Who cares what you look like when you take the picture, it's the picture that matters.
Oh and one other thing, image blur is exacerbated when objects are either very close, or very far away. One because the contrast elements (edges and such) are easy to distinguish from the rest and when they're blurry... you notice it. The other because detail elements are TINY at that range, down to even 1 pixel width, so any shake makes those disappear entirely into blur.
Just some basic things to do. Honestly if it's a choice between getting the shot with my Nikons... or getting it with my GS5? the Nikons will win every time. But in a pinch, the camera on the GS5 is good enough. Just takes the right hands and the right frame of mind.
Arkanthos2015 said:
So here's kinda the problem. And it happens a lot with people taking pictures on your phone.
A phone was not meant to be a camera. It just wasn't. In the early days of low resolution things went faster. When you try to run 16 megabit... things are necessarily going to be harder.
Here's the easiest solution to your problems: Practice taking pictures with the phone. Keep your arms tucked in at your sides, keep the phone closer to your body. Shoot in landscape instead of portrait so your hands are in better position. I use the flip case for this phone which means I can use that as well to have better grip and stability. Take the picture... and keep the camera pointed just where you were taking the picture for at least 1/2 sec after you tap the "shutter release". Shutter lag will only be exacerbated by being too quick to move the phone. Also, you don't have to mash the on screen button, light tap and whatnot. Oh and the 1/3 of a sec focus time is their "fastest" rating. While in truth that is pretty darn decent, it's also the fastest you'll have. Expect a possible 1/2 to 3/4 sec focus time. And make sure you're PICKY about your focus. Do it over and over again if it's not right.
Also, your metering mode will have a big impact on your images. Get used to changing them to suit your subject.
I have 13+ years experience as a photographer. If it weren't absolutely absurd, and say all of my bodies died at the same time... I would be carrying a monopod or tripod for use with my GS5... Stability is the key to image quality. Who cares what you look like when you take the picture, it's the picture that matters.
Oh and one other thing, image blur is exacerbated when objects are either very close, or very far away. One because the contrast elements (edges and such) are easy to distinguish from the rest and when they're blurry... you notice it. The other because detail elements are TINY at that range, down to even 1 pixel width, so any shake makes those disappear entirely into blur.
Just some basic things to do. Honestly if it's a choice between getting the shot with my Nikons... or getting it with my GS5? the Nikons will win every time. But in a pinch, the camera on the GS5 is good enough. Just takes the right hands and the right frame of mind.
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Lots of truth to your post in regards to the pointers about technique and settings. I've got an EOS-1Ds I use when I plan to take photos, and you need to know how to use your gear and be practiced if you want to take a decent photo.
However, I disagree when it comes to expectations for smartphone camera performance. I used to have the same attitude you expressed about taking photos with a phone, until I recently backed up and printed some of the photos off my wife's old iPhone 4S. The photos it took were shockingly good, and my disappointment with the Galaxy S5 camera stems from the fact that it is getting severely outperformed by the 3 year old iPhone. If the Apple crowd has been able to rely on their iPhones as a competent point-and-shoot camera for years, I see no reason why my flagship Android phone should be no different.
In other news, I've been playing with different settings and apps all afternoon, and still aren't seeing any improvement in performance. Camera Zoom FX allows for ISO 1600, and that's giving me the best performance so far in terms of reducing lag and image blur. (Of course, the images are quite grainy...boo hiss.)
Gfs phone (I would never buy a phone that m$ had their hands on)
Had Nokia replace the device due to a bad charging port and she ended up with a different hardware revision (3.3.0.2 not sure what she had before but it's different)
Since then she's complained that the cam doesn't take the quality pics it used to. I ran through the cam settings and the highest I can set is 5mp for jpeg and 34 on dng. Nowhere near the advertised 41 that her old device was shooting at before. Is this the cam app or a limitation of the new hardware itself? Either way the camera is the ONLY reason she wanted this phone, and I know there is no logical reason for a casual photographer to need this kind of resolution. But I would expect more than 5mp jpegs from the 'best' cam on a phone atm.
Thanks in advance for any help in the matter ~Dan
So looking in to it, but it seems this cam has always taken pics in 5/34. But I don't thinks she's even getting a that. Sample pics as enclosed in auto macro and infinity focus. Obviously this thing is not taking pics like it should.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B24oiB-uu3o5QVhnekVCREFfTnM/edit?usp=docslist_api
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B24oiB-uu3o5Rktacl9aZHBKTWM/edit?usp=docslist_api
Obviously they don't look that bad on her phone. However once compressed to an sms this is how they come out. Here's why they look like when uncompressed. http://1drv.ms/191mb1X
Its always the case was.
Hi,
You got it right. 1020 never took 41 MP photos. It always took one big and one small photo. One for your imaging/editing/printing purpose. Another for sharing online.
Seems, it uses sampling technique and took 2 photos simultaneously. (Sorry, I am not tech guy). Hence, they required 41 MP sensor.
Its to do with the sensor size not being the same as the aspect ratio that the photos are taken in.
Don't know about you but what we have "selective focus" or whatever they call it is a complete trash 99% of the time. We have 2 cameras and they can make great photos. They are perfect for Portrait mode but there is no one to add it I guess.
They added Live photos - Another thing half baked. Can't be used outside of your phone... At least Huawei phones are feature rich, they could make some way to export them as a GIFs or ot export the video so we can share it on another places.
Now they are adding 3D Panorama Camera Mode (there is XDA article about it) another thing NOT SO needed.
Why not invest some time and do a Portrait Mode so we can make great photos?
If you agree with me, send your feedback to Huawei from HiCare app.
Tweet to @huaweiMobile and @huawei on Twitter.
Write on Facebook: @huaweiMobile .
Who knows maybe they will add it later if we give enough feedback.
MartinDimchev said:
Don't know about you but what we have "selective focus" or whatever they call it is a complete trash 99% of the time. We have 2 cameras and they can make great photos. They are perfect for Portrait mode but there is no one to add it I guess.
They added Live photos - Another thing half baked. Can't be used outside of your phone... At least Huawei phones are feature rich, they could make some way to export them as a GIFs or ot export the video so we can share it on another places.
Now they are adding 3D Panorama Camera Mode (there is XDA article about it) another thing NOT SO needed.
Why not invest some time and do a Portrait Mode so we can make great photos?
If you agree with me, send your feedback to Huawei from HiCare app.
Tweet to @huaweiMobile and @huawei on Twitter.
Write on Facebook: @huaweiMobile .
Who knows maybe they will add it later if we give enough feedback.
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Click to collapse
Wide aperture mode and potrait mode are similar. I think the only difference is you can alter the blur in wide aperture...
Trick with two cameras in P9 is that they are not used at the same time even to create bokeh effect. It was tested many times with covered lens or even when putting some bright thing to fool camera not to show info "dont cover lenses".
So sadly we talk here only about one sensor that still is damn nice, so at least for me its not big deal.
As for portrait mode... It would be nice to have but what we really expect from it?
Most of portrait modes on phones are actually the same as "beautification mode" where camera just slightly blur skin color and do some really small blur on background.
Its not really much and I actually found out that "beautification mode" in our device at level 3-4 do the trick just fine. Also "Food Mode" is pretty nice for portrait, it bump colors and(not sure if its me or that function) focus more on close objects so background have that light blur.
Other thing is that if you really want to make nice portrait mode... Expert mode is best to do it. Yes it need that few seconds to get set it up depending on lighting condition, but for most of time its a matter of selecting aperture mode, AF to manual(its tricky on phone but you can get used to it) and correction of exposition.
Also people should not be afraid of post processing. This is something that actually distinguishes professional photography from amateur. Whole magic of nice image is correcting it after taking picture. Not some heavy photoshoping, but "correcting image".
People today want everything automated and expect professional results. They take 100000 pictures and want them all to be nice.
Yes, photography is about taking lots of pictures, but what matter is to choose that one best, and polish it as much as possible.
Taking portrait is not different, you take few pictures, choose best one and polish it a bit after that.
You will never get perfect result with automatic mode in first try, this need some luck or proper preparation of scene, that no one really do when take pictures using camera.
The wide aperature (not called selective focus) is actually the portrait mode, similar to the one on iPhones(also on Note8).
It does use both cameras to percieve depth and create a bokeh/blur effect.
And if you are talking about P10's portrait mode, it is just the wide aperture mode along with beauty mode combined, and is inferior.
I think P9 does a decent job with it's potraits. It's not the best when compared to Pixel, iPhone and Note 8. But a little bit of tweaking and manually taking the photo at a good distance from subject. You can get great results. Plus you can't expect everything to be in the phone, as there are certain. limitations hardware wise. Best you can do is to see tutorials or find ways to manually tweak camera settings. Or you could get Autofocus, terrific free app that allows you to make potriats out of normal photos and it's very good.
Personally I don't find it the same as Portrait Mode on other phones. Especially with objects it's ridiculosly bad. About the two cameras I guess there is a way to make them work together and give great results. But even if they add it only for the one camera I would be really happy. It's not necessary but would be nice to have it. We see they are adding new things this one will be wellcome.
It's simple. Instead of using a button named "Portrait Mode", use the manual Settings to create portraits and bokeh effect on your own.
Because everyone knows how to use manual settings to achieve it right? Not so simple. Mode is better.
If you managed to ride a bike, create google account, register on xda forum and use phone it self at all, manual mode will be peace of cake.
Its a matter of just remembering what option do what, and you have really just 6 options where 2 of them are really clear to understand and not used too much(White Balance and Focus Mode that is just manual and auto).
Separated modes are handy, but they often "try to hard to be inteligent" and mess thing up. Its especially frustrating when you transfer images to PC and realize that image on phone look totally different than on PC, especially in terms of contrast and details...
Akinaro said:
Trick with two cameras in P9 is that they are not used at the same time even to create bokeh effect. It was tested many times with covered lens or even when putting some bright thing to fool camera not to show info "dont cover lenses".
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Are You sure? I tested it on my P9 and covering one lens (mono) has an effect... Just look at the file size and histogram. I can clearly see the diference (with covered lens there're less highlights).
Of course in PRO mode without RAW. RAW is taking photo from ONE lens.
galakty said:
Are You sure? I tested it on my P9 and covering one lens (mono) has an effect... Just look at the file size and histogram. I can clearly see the diference (with covered lens there're less highlights).
Of course in PRO mode without RAW. RAW is taking photo from ONE lens.
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There was few comparisons topic even here on XDA, but here have another one. Taken in a bit dark room near the window with just natural sun light. I used small tripod on table.
Normally I would use big one and take pic outside, but I dont have big one with me and its windy as hell and Im not in the mood for going outside
Beside here we focus on details of image, not on bokeh effect, so such close up is enough.
I used both method to cover BW lens. Simple thick tape, and second one that prevent phone from showing warning about covering lens: Bright single small LED diode facing straight in to the BW lens(its really tricky to set it in way that it dont reflect in to the other lense...) It not cover image but give big bright white blurred blob in the middle of image.
Image is saved in PNG format so it should not have additional compression artifacts.
https://goo.gl/DK1rjR
(of course download it for 100% size)
As you see... all images have almost the same amount of details. Of course BW look best especially with help of lower ISO.
Overall only auto mode lost some details but you need to stick your face to the screen and literally look for them, so I call it draw for both auto and manual.
Of course we need to remember that scene it self have lots to say, so with different lighting and scene you will get different image size and auto mode settings, but overall you will get the same results: There is no difference in image quality if you cover BW lense, even with bokeh effect.
Akinaro said:
There was few comparisons topic even here on XDA, but here have another one. Taken in a bit dark room near the window with just natural sun light. I used small tripod on table.
Normally I would use big one and take pic outside, but I dont have big one with me and its windy as hell and Im not in the mood for going outside
Beside here we focus on details of image, not on bokeh effect, so such close up is enough.
I used both method to cover BW lens. Simple thick tape, and second one that prevent phone from showing warning about covering lens: Bright single small LED diode facing straight in to the BW lens(its really tricky to set it in way that it dont reflect in to the other lense...) It not cover image but give big bright white blurred blob in the middle of image.
Image is saved in PNG format so it should not have additional compression artifacts.
https://goo.gl/DK1rjR
(of course download it for 100% size)
As you see... all images have almost the same amount of details. Of course BW look best especially with help of lower ISO.
Overall only auto mode lost some details but you need to stick your face to the screen and literally look for them, so I call it draw for both auto and manual.
Of course we need to remember that scene it self have lots to say, so with different lighting and scene you will get different image size and auto mode settings, but overall you will get the same results: There is no difference in image quality if you cover BW lense, even with bokeh effect.
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Hmmmm... Im not talking about human eyes
The difference is too small to catch it, but if You look into file sizes and at histogram there IS a difference. Not huge, but there is.
The problem is... Huawei told us, they're using two sensors to produce one image. And its true, but its not like as twice as much light unfortunately. Difference is too little to catch it and say that. Covering the second lens is cutting some highlights, thats all... (right side of histogram).
I would love to, that camera is taking light with monochrome sensor and then putting colors on it... It would be AMAZING! Just take color and monochrome photos with same scenery. The monochrome photo is almost twice as fast as color (or has twice less ISO).
Why is that? I dont know, its a shame. Anyway its super camera still.
EDIT: Maybe for different ROMs its different?
Honestly I dont really care if it use both sensors to take pic or not. Its nice camera and that what matter. Many people including me tested it many time, and difference is non existing if you compare them, for most of time difference in size or histogram is a matter of just different settings and small changes in scene lighting, even small tilt or movement of camera can change it. Even if you just focus on different part of scene, there will be change in light expo(it will bright or darken some part and you will get totally different histogram and size). I can ensure you that if you put your phone in tripod and take proper test images without changing scene lighting too much you will never find a real difference, even with slightly different histogram(I actually dont get focusing on it that much... its like rating music relying on its spectrogram)
As for using two sensors and blend both images to create one... Today cameras and hardware is fast enough to take even 3 pictures instantly with different settings(exp, focus), so even with just one sensor you can get nice images that have nice dynamic range, bokeh effect and details.
So dual camera with both the same sensors are really just marketing gimmick and some people get that bait and spread false info about "superiority of dual cameras". Its a matter of creating ONE good sensor with good image algorithms to get perfect image(like proper cameras doing for past decades?). And I dont afraid to say that P9 have really nice camera and monochrome sensor is just additional feature, cool to use but not needed at all.
Yeah mulit-lenses have their pros, but we talk here about phone... you can stick on it additional wide angle lens, but beside that playing with blending images from few senors is overkill.
Jan Philipp said:
It's simple. Instead of using a button named "Portrait Mode", use the manual Settings to create portraits and bokeh effect on your own.
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You can't reproduce wide aperture effect with pro settings. You can't adjust focal length or aperture.
Akinaro said:
Honestly I dont really care if it use both sensors to take pic or not. Its nice camera and that what matter. Many people including me tested it many time, and difference is non existing if you compare them, for most of time difference in size or histogram is a matter of just different settings and small changes in scene lighting, even small tilt or movement of camera can change it. Even if you just focus on different part of scene, there will be change in light expo(it will bright or darken some part and you will get totally different histogram and size). I can ensure you that if you put your phone in tripod and take proper test images without changing scene lighting too much you will never find a real difference, even with slightly different histogram(I actually dont get focusing on it that much... its like rating music relying on its spectrogram)
As for using two sensors and blend both images to create one... Today cameras and hardware is fast enough to take even 3 pictures instantly with different settings(exp, focus), so even with just one sensor you can get nice images that have nice dynamic range, bokeh effect and details.
So dual camera with both the same sensors are really just marketing gimmick and some people get that bait and spread false info about "superiority of dual cameras". Its a matter of creating ONE good sensor with good image algorithms to get perfect image(like proper cameras doing for past decades?). And I dont afraid to say that P9 have really nice camera and monochrome sensor is just additional feature, cool to use but not needed at all.
Yeah mulit-lenses have their pros, but we talk here about phone... you can stick on it additional wide angle lens, but beside that playing with blending images from few senors is overkill.
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I happen to disagree, multiple sensors can be useful for zoom without losing detail (that's no gimmick), monochrome let you take pics with less noise in darker scenes (I really like that) , the bokeh effect normally use both lenses to create the image. In other phones, LG's for example, the wide angle lens may come handy in numerous situations. Sure, you can have one great camera and be satisfied but I don't think that multiple sensors are just pure marketing.
joser0913 said:
I happen to disagree, multiple sensors can be useful for zoom without losing detail (that's no gimmick), monochrome let you take pics with less noise in darker scenes (I really like that) , the bokeh effect normally use both lenses to create the image. In other phones, LG's for example, the wide angle lens may come handy in numerous situations. Sure, you can have one great camera and be satisfied but I don't think that multiple sensors are just pure marketing.
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eh... I said that, quote: ""So dual camera with both the same sensors are really just marketing gimmick"". I was referring all the time to two identical sensors. Read whole topic...
I mentioned that having telephoto is different story, quote: ""(...) you can stick on it additional wide angle lens, but beside that playing with blending images from few senors is overkill.""
But still as I said al whats matter is quality of that sensor and software side of it(algorithms), there is lots of phones and camera with just one senor but because of quality of optic and optimized software it give you better end results when you compare it to any dual cam in 1:1 comparison