Related
I noticed in the USA version (@3:50- Rogers HTC One X Review on Youtube) that there is a partition on the HTC One X of ~2GB for Apps.
Does anyone think that 1) this partition can be removed, and 2) that more space can be made available rather than the messily >10gb on this phone?
These questions are basically my make or break for HTC and my upgrade. I may end up waiting of the SIII if I can't at least have 12GB of storage space made available.
What 12gb, this phone has 32gb of internal memory and 26gb was user accessible. Do you.think that you posted this in one s section or what? This is one x And dev thread, post this kind of questions in Q&A thread from the next time.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
Keep in mind you have the international HSPA version.. I am talking about the ATT LTE One X releasing on May 6th.
Watch the video i mentioned
shree.cse said:
What 12gb, this phone has 32gb of internal memory and 26gb was user accessible. Do you.think that you posted this in one s section or what? This is one x And dev thread, post this kind of questions in Q&A thread from the next time.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Umm, this is in the One XL General thread. So he's right.
NFLBLitz said:
I noticed in the USA version (@3:50- Rogers HTC One X Review on Youtube) that there is a partition on the HTC One X of ~2GB for Apps.
Does anyone think that 1) this partition can be removed, and 2) that more space can be made available rather than the messily >10gb on this phone?
These questions are basically my make or break for HTC and my upgrade. I may end up waiting of the SIII if I can't at least have 12GB of storage space made available.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it's make or break over 2gb?? getting a little picky are we not? i see a lot of peoples points on the memory, some people just need it either for movies or just files in general.
i'm grandfathered in to unlimited, i have wi-fi at home, work, and college to boot, i have a tablet with 48gb and a full-size usb to slap my thumb drives into, and a great cloud setup via dropbox, google music, splashtop, and photobucket. i simply have more storage then i know what to do with...
i feel for those who have to skimp by deleting this and that just to have room.
here are some links to some good devices that are cheap and would make you a little happier, honestly, if your upgrading, i would sell the phone and keep something like an atrix around, you could afford all this stuff and a decent year old phone for the price of a one x.
acer a500 tablet: 16gb, sdcard, full usb, 10.1" 1280x800, tegra 2 ~$230
32gb micro sdcard ~$22-30
32gb thumb drive ~$19-22
total=~$275
movies are better, ps3 controllers work perfectly, a wireless mouse is fine, battery lasts me 3 days, you can turn it into a laptop, has icecream 4.0 roms, and on and on...
i'm mean seriously, if you want entertainment be smart. you don't need the top of the line phone to have fun, try something that is here now and cheap.
but what ever, that was the longest 2 cents i think i have ever wrote...and i doubt anybody will listen lol.
chaosjh said:
it's make or break over 2gb?? getting a little picky are we not? i see a lot of peoples points on the memory, some people just need it either for movies or just files in general.
i'm grandfathered in to unlimited, i have wi-fi at home, work, and college to boot, i have a tablet with 48gb and a full-size usb to slap my thumb drives into, and a great cloud setup via dropbox, google music, splashtop, and photobucket. i simply have more storage then i know what to do with...
i feel for those who have to skimp by deleting this and that just to have room.
here are some links to some good devices that are cheap and would make you a little happier, honestly, if your upgrading, i would sell the phone and keep something like an atrix around, you could afford all this stuff and a decent year old phone for the price of a one x.
acer a500 tablet: 16gb, sdcard, full usb, 10.1" 1280x800, tegra 2 ~$230
32gb micro sdcard ~$22-30
32gb thumb drive ~$19-22
total=~$275
movies are better, ps3 controllers work perfectly, a wireless mouse is fine, battery lasts me 3 days, you can turn it into a laptop, has icecream 4.0 roms, and on and on...
i'm mean seriously, if you want entertainment be smart. you don't need the top of the line phone to have fun, try something that is here now and cheap.
but what ever, that was the longest 2 cents i think i have ever wrote...and i doubt anybody will listen lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While your thoughts are sound, you'll never win this arguement with everyone, myself included!
Cloud storage is great, but only works if your always connected. I am an airline pilot. I need local storage on my phone for photos, music, docs etc and cannot use the cloud while literally in the cloud.
You know what I can't wait for? For my airline to get free, unlimited inflight wifi. Then my arguement becomes mute and 16gb on a phone will be more than enough. Before you say you wouldn't want your Pilots using wifi, we could update our weather with maps, notams, etc far easier with tablets etc than the airplanes equipement. I know I'm going off topic here, but while most (not all) of my First Officers use ipads, I prefer my galaxy tab. When they see maps and approach plates on the wider screen instead of that unnatural squarish ipad screen, they all ask me "what's that!!!!".
At any rate, different people have different needs. I use dropbox, google docs for non aviation and union stuff, google + photo upload, I live in Canada so no google music but I prefer to have my music locally. Videos, whole dif matter, a 15 minute hi def video can be close to a gig, it sucks to have a great phone with a great camera and before taking video you might have to see if you have the space!
You know an easy solution? The Iphone comes in three storage solutions, so should the one series. Cloud enough for you, buy the cheap 16gb version, partial cloud type of guy? 32gb it is, music and video nut? Here's an expensive 64gb variant for you! Can anyone argue that is a bad idea for a company trying to turn their fortunes around? If the galaxy s3 outsells the one series in North America, their handicaped storage will be one reason (pun intended) why.
Sent from my GT-P7510 using XDA Premium HD app
jmitr said:
While your thoughts are sound, you'll never win this arguement with everyone, myself included!
Cloud storage is great, but only works if your always connected. I am an airline pilot. I need local storage on my phone for photos, music, docs etc and cannot use the cloud while literally in the cloud.
You know what I can't wait for? For my airline to get free, unlimited inflight wifi. Then my arguement becomes mute and 16gb on a phone will be more than enough. Before you say you wouldn't want your Pilots using wifi, we could update our weather with maps, notams, etc far easier with tablets etc than the airplanes equipement. I know I'm going off topic here, but while most (not all) of my First Officers use ipads, I prefer my galaxy tab. When they see maps and approach plates on the wider screen instead of that unnatural squarish ipad screen, they all ask me "what's that!!!!".
At any rate, different people have different needs. I use dropbox, google docs for non aviation and union stuff, google + photo upload, I live in Canada so no google music but I prefer to have my music locally. Videos, whole dif matter, a 15 minute hi def video can be close to a gig, it sucks to have a great phone with a great camera and before taking video you might have to see if you have the space!
You know an easy solution? The Iphone comes in three storage solutions, so should the one series. Cloud enough for you, buy the cheap 16gb version, partial cloud type of guy? 32gb it is, music and video nut? Here's an expensive 64gb variant for you! Can anyone argue that is a bad idea for a company trying to turn their fortunes around? If the galaxy s3 outsells the one series in North America, their handicaped storage will be one reason (pun intended) why.
Sent from my GT-P7510 using XDA Premium HD app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So we cant text and drive, but you can text, look at pictures and edit documents while you fly?
jmitr said:
You know an easy solution? The Iphone comes in three storage solutions, so should the one series. Cloud enough for you, buy the cheap 16gb version, partial cloud type of guy? 32gb it is, music and video nut? Here's an expensive 64gb variant for you! Can anyone argue that is a bad idea for a company trying to turn their fortunes around? If the galaxy s3 outsells the one series in North America, their handicaped storage will be one reason (pun intended) why.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i fully agree with this, although it would probably end in a lawsuit.
all the flagships should have options and only be refreshed once a year, it's so silly how android makers have splintered the market just to have that extra feature that sells just that many more phones (looking at you samsung).
Red5 said:
So we cant text and drive, but you can text, look at pictures and edit documents while you fly?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol!!!!!!!
Getting serious though, as Pilot's we have a "sterile cockpit" rule (most airlines are the same) when descending through 10,000'. That's usually the same time I select the seatbelt sign on (unless it's earlier due turbulence), so i'm putting away my toys the same time you are. The exception would be approach plates, alot of us use tablets for those nowadays.
Got to add, I love my phone / tablet combo. My phone alone replaced my phone, calculator, E6B, mp3 player, gameboy, camera and more. My tab replaced all my manuals, and approach plates, and no more library books in my bag. Some of those things are for overnights in the hotel btw. The ability to quickly check weather and other info anywhere, chat realtime with maintenance while sending pics etc etc and even 10 years ago seems like the dark ages!
Technology and gadgets......f*ck yeah!
Sent from my GT-P7510 using XDA Premium HD app
jmitr said:
Lol!!!!!!!
Getting serious though, as Pilot's we have a "sterile cockpit" rule (most airlines are the same) when descending through 10,000'. That's usually the same time I select the seatbelt sign on (unless it's earlier due turbulence), so i'm putting away my toys the same time you are. The exception would be approach plates, alot of us use tablets for those nowadays.
Got to add, I love my phone / tablet combo. My phone alone replaced my phone, calculator, E6B, mp3 player, gameboy, camera and more. My tab replaced all my manuals, and approach plates, and no more library books in my bag. Some of those things are for overnights in the hotel btw. The ability to quickly check weather and other info anywhere, chat realtime with maintenance while sending pics etc etc and even 10 years ago seems like the dark ages!
Technology and gadgets......f*ck yeah!
Sent from my GT-P7510 using XDA Premium HD app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is a great way to implement the new technology. Instead of carrying around 30 LBS of products, you now have two lightweight devices that do everything for you. Same goes for my job and countless others... but it always makes me happy to hear people taking advantage of them.
Im curious. Do you still have unlimited data? What are your plans about keeping it? Whats your next phone?
I switched to the 6GB share plan, and I'm either getting an iPhone 5, or a Droid DNA.
Seriously?..... I guess we should each have our own thread when we decide to get a new phone.
Each day that passes, I look more and more forward to getting away from the redundancy and boringness of these Tbolt forums.
Well I'm loving my TB its on liquid ics 3.2 I think over fast and the next fone should be the Droid DNA or Samsung note 3
Sent from my Thunderbolt using xda app-developers app
Why in the hell would you switch from unlimited to 6GB? You do realize that higher phones will pull more data, higher quality video streams, and so on right? What used to be 4GB on the TB will turn into 8GB on the DNA or other similar phones.
Anyway I bought the DNA and gave it a trial run, found out it really wasnt for me and didnt suit my needs so I'm back on the TB. The only thing I want in a new phone is a bigger screen now. The TB fills every other category on my wish list perfectly.
At this point I'm probably going to wait until I really see something I like come out. The Droid DNA had a lot of potential, but it's major shortfalls (16GB only, no uSD slot, non-removable battery) are hard to ignore. It's tough to justify the GS3 now that it's already 6 months old, so I think I'm going to wait and see what 2013 brings to the table. While I'm fine with the large phone size (although I think phablets like the Note are too large), I do wish one of the big Android manufacturers would put out a top tier phone in a smaller form factor. There's no way my wife could comfortably use the DNA or GS3 (the Tbolt is about her hand's limit), but it seems there's no top tier phone in the low 4" sizes anymore.
I still have unlimited. Next phone? I won't know that for 6 month but it will have 64GB or an SD slot. I have 64 Gig SDXC in my tbolt now.
Why would you want 64GB? Isnt that like 30,000 songs? At least 100 movies? Half the apps in the app store? You should probably get over your memory requirements since removable batteries and stuff are a thing of the past. Phones are moving into the cloud, designed for wireless charging, ultra light weight and portability. To achieve this you need to be able to just cram everything in there any way you can, which makes it less likely for access.
RunNgun42 said:
Why would you want 64GB? Isnt that like 30,000 songs? At least 100 movies? Half the apps in the app store? You should probably get over your memory requirements since removable batteries and stuff are a thing of the past. Phones are moving into the cloud, designed for wireless charging, ultra light weight and portability. To achieve this you need to be able to just cram everything in there any way you can, which makes it less likely for access.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was once asked why anyone would want 1MB (yes megabyte) of RAM in a computer. The "cloud" is finicky, not always available, and not to be trusted if you care anything about privacy. Memory is cheap and light. ($42 retail less than 1g for my 64GB). I'm willing to bet the trend toward no removable battery or memory is money (i.e. cost of manufacture and support) not ability of the designers to execute. The trends seems to be LARGER phones (bigger screens bigger batteries).
Buy a used phone and keep your unlimited data. eBay, swappa, etc. I've bought my wife and I each a galaxy nexus for around $220 each. You won't regret it.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
Keeping the tbolt and bought a tablet to use along side my bolt with tethering on...
Sent from my ThunderBolt using xda app-developers app
tburns said:
Keeping the tbolt and bought a tablet to use along side my bolt with tethering on...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Me, too. I just got a Lenovo A1107 for $120 (as a carputer) and have a 10.1" Samsung Tablet for around the house. The Bolt can stay as a telephone and mobile hotspot.
Verizon sucks, though.
nonews said:
I was once asked why anyone would want 1MB (yes megabyte) of RAM in a computer. The "cloud" is finicky, not always available, and not to be trusted if you care anything about privacy. Memory is cheap and light. ($42 retail less than 1g for my 64GB). I'm willing to bet the trend toward no removable battery or memory is money (i.e. cost of manufacture and support) not ability of the designers to execute. The trends seems to be LARGER phones (bigger screens bigger batteries).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You knew 1MB would never suffice for a computer because you could foresee the advancements in technology requiring more space in the future. So what advancements do you see in cell-phone technology requiring 64gb, 128gb, screw it a full terabyte if storage? You might as well tell me that I'm foolish for feeling 160mph is fast enough in my car, because one day we might all be cruising at 250mph through the neighborhood. Movies arent getting any longer, songs are getting any bigger. There is no practical reason for a feature length film to be more than a couple of gigabytes since the screen size will always be less than 7".
It is precisely because phones are getting bigger that the engineering involved is getting more difficult. Special considerations have to be made when designing a battery that can be removed. It is MUCH easier for a designer if he doesnt have to worry about this. Imagine if cell-phone had removable 4G chips, video processors and ram. Do you really think the design could still be kept as portable as something like the Iphone, DNA, or SGS3? Of course not, you'd end up with a phone as big as a laptop trying to accommodate this.
RunNgun42 said:
You knew 1MB would never suffice for a computer because you could foresee the advancements in technology requiring more space in the future. So what advancements do you see in cell-phone technology requiring 64gb, 128gb, screw it a full terabyte if storage? You might as well tell me that I'm foolish for feeling 160mph is fast enough in my car, because one day we might all be cruising at 250mph through the neighborhood. Movies arent getting any longer, songs are getting any bigger. There is no practical reason for a feature length film to be more than a couple of gigabytes since the screen size will always be less than 7".
It is precisely because phones are getting bigger that the engineering involved is getting more difficult. Special considerations have to be made when designing a battery that can be removed. It is MUCH easier for a designer if he doesnt have to worry about this. Imagine if cell-phone had removable 4G chips, video processors and ram. Do you really think the design could still be kept as portable as something like the Iphone, DNA, or SGS3? Of course not, you'd end up with a phone as big as a laptop trying to accommodate this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bad assumption, straw man and non sequitur
I had no special knowledge for what computer memory would be used. I only know, looking BACK at computer technology, that EVERY time someone has suggested “No one will ever need more than _____” we blew right past that without a pause. People are pretty clever in using all of a given resource. For myself I am just under 32GB used on my SD right now so 64GB I don’t have to worry about filling given my current usage model. (Which is why I stated that I could live with a 64GB fixed memory phone?) Even so 128GB devices are practically a given and 1TB is not much of a stretch. This trend will probably continue until we can fit no more into 1cm^2. What will use all of this storage? I don’t know. People are very clever in using all of a given resource however.
Does online storage and fast wireless mitigate the need for large local storage? Yes. Does it fully replace the need? No. Are data caps and overage charges making replacing local storage harder? Probably.
As for video I think your assumption of 7” is incorrect. Phones already have outputs (HDMI or the like) to drive large screens. What will those screens be in the future in size and frame rate be? HD, 2K 4K 8K? 24,30,48,60 FPS? I fully expect video files to grow.
Audio – I don’t see it changing much but perhaps bandwidth and storage will favor lossless CODECs.
Your car analogy is weak. Automobiles already operate close to the human ability to perform in many areas, portable devices… not so much. I would like to go 800 miles on a tank of gas.
I really disagree with you regarding designing for bigger vs smaller phones. A larger phone, dominated by say the display should offer more opportunity to fit things in. Of course if the wider and taller phone actually has less volume than previous phones then it would be more challenging and if it has to weigh less even with a larger volume then it may be really tough. Removable storage and batteries ARE harder to design as I said before and I fully understand that the extra cost of design and manufacture of removable storage and batteries favors the design of non-removable storage and batteries. No one mentioned changing SOC or coms or radios but that is another straw man.
Before I go on, I'm just curious, what does your 32gb of cellphone storage consist of?
The key word here is "right now."
Right now 64 GB might seem like a top end tier for mobile storage. But the DNA is 1080p resolution with more phones to likely follow suit. The files will be larger, and data consumption will increase.
Carrier networks are no longer in the unlimited era. Caps, throttling, and insanely annoying persistent wifi alerts rule the day. If carriers insist on treating network bandwidth like gold from Ft. Knox, then I'm going to want to carry more, and cloud less.
16 gigs of storage becomes 11 after OS and bloat. 11 gigs is pretty pedestrian on a device that can hold apps, movies, and songs. How long have we had iPods with more than 11 gigs in storage?
SGS 3 had it right. So does the Note 2. If I want locked down drudgery I'd buy an iPhone.
I love HTC, but they need to get somebody else making decisions over there. Carrier exclusive phones? Fail. No SD Card or removable battery? Sigh.
I'm considering a Nexus 4, but that's only because it has budget pricing, and I can use it with pre-paid service. (Read: I'm cheap)
Duely blundered from my thunderdolt.
RunNgun42 said:
Before I go on, I'm just curious, what does your 32gb of cellphone storage consist of?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
25.6GB of audio
1.1G of nandroids (each about 1Gig)
2G Ti backups, app data, app cache and system stuff
I could live with 32GB if I had to for a while at least.
If you have a few Roms you like and have nandroids of, they're almost a gig a piece.
I hate how new phones are stopping at 16 gigs with no sd slot. It's not enough memory for me, nandroids and app backups are necessary and use a lot of space.
I'm the last person I ever thought would be advocating for less storage space. Believe me I'm with you when it comes to the ignorance of people who always thought ABC/XYZ was enough. I guess a better way to justify the design of something like the Droid DNA is that it at least gets the job done. I watch tons of movies, listen to tons of music, and keep my phone docked in a cradle on my desk to surf at work all day long. I just found alternatives to storage limitation that just so happen to be the direction the industry is trying to push us in. I recognized that I dont need to have 10 movies on my device at any given moment because it's not like I'll ever really be watching them. At least not often enough to justify a need for storage to keep them. I uploaded my entire song library to Google Play which was a huge boon because now I have it with me on any device anywhere I go. I dont keep more than 1 nandroid of my device because my previous build is the only thing worth keeping. When I flash a new rom I simply keep a failsafe, and I only store about 2-3 roms on my device as redundant failsafes for each other in the event things really go sour or I just get really bored.
If this is the tradeoff necessary to have a beautiful 5" display with wireless charging and weighs light as a feather, then I consider this a win. If the alternative is a larger, heavier, more expensive phone to accommodate the best of both worlds (tons of storage and tons of power) then I consider that a loss. I will gladly take form over function since the function can be made up for in other areas that actually add quite a bit of newfound convenience. To me, this whole idea of clinging to old phone standards of sd-cards and removable batteries is just oldschool thinking. It reminds me of the business tycoon still using his monochrome blackberry thinking he's the ****, and that all these kids just dont "get it" with their fancy colors and lack of technical needs. Or the supposedly tech savvy laptop pro who buys the heaviest most impossible to carry device with a 17" screen, optical disc drive, and 10 USB ports for that 1 time he actually needs it. Everything you use your storage for is just for an emergency. 25gb of music, multiple nandroids, etc. They're all just "what if" scenarios that probably see the light of day once every few months. Sacrificing the entire build of a phone for this off-chance scenario is just very backwards thinking imo.
You dont have to believe me but the dna gets excellent battery life for a phone with a 1080p and the lack of an sd card is irrelevant since it is otg capable meaning an external hard drive can be used. The sad part is that a new one x phone is right around the corner.
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
RunNgun42 said:
I'm the last person I ever thought would be advocating for less storage space. ....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I glad you found a usage model with which you are happy. I prefer another.
This is my first Android phone without a micro SD card, and it sucks trying to transfer large files. I'm coming from a Note 10+ with 256GB internal storage and a 512GB micro SD card. So, with a 512GB internal storage only, I'm already taking a step backwards. I've always kept most large files on my SD card and it was simple to place the SD card in the new phone. It's always made backups simple, ever since Android did away with USB Mass Storage. I know I'm old school, but I've also chosen the Note series because it's always been the Swiss Army Knife of cell phones. But, they constantly remove features to the point where there's very little differentiation from other phones. I wish I would've bought a Note 20 Ultra before Samsung stopped making them. But, who knew they would eliminate the micro SD completely. They did it with the Note 5 and apparently realized it was a mistake because they brought it back for the next 5 generations. I almost switched to the Xperia Pro or I III. Except Sony put 95% of their phone features into the camera. I run multiple businesses and I've always relied on the Note with the option of pulling the SD card for quick file transfer. We got minor upgrades in processor and battery, but I don't know if I can except the trade off for what's been omitted. This $1,300 phone might be going in the trash if I can't find some important trade-offs. So far, it seems like a downgrade to my 2019 premium phone.
In the US you can still buy new factory sealed N10+'s and N20U's.
I bought a new N10+ 4 months ago to serve as a backup for my first one. I don't think the N20U is as reliable and it's variable refresh rate display like all of the variable refresh rate displays doesn't have as good a color rendering index as the N10+. The cam hump and that lame lefty spen... idiots.
No SD card slot, no sale. Personally I like to have two 1tb SD card slots.
Screw Sammy for turning all Apple
Call Samsung up and share the wuv
I have had to do 2 factory resets to try and solve some issues. Smart Switch isn't cutting it. Samsung wants me to put in the code off of my other Galaxy device?! I have no other Galaxy device now.
This whole deal starting with the presale has been a disaster. The phone has not been what the specs were either.
blackhawk said:
In the US you can still buy new factory sealed N10+'s and N20U's.
I bought a new N10+ 4 months ago to serve as a backup for my first one. I don't think the N20U is as reliable and it's variable refresh rate display like all of the variable refresh rate displays doesn't have as good a color rendering index as the N10+. The cam hump and that lame lefty spen... idiots.
No SD card slot, no sale. Personally I like to have two 1tb SD card slots.
Screw Sammy for turning all Apple
Call Samsung up and share the wuv
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The left handed S-pen seems retarded. I understand (but still not happy with) the constant rearrangement of the power/volume buttons. I've gotten used to everything being on the left side. But, my Tab S6 has right side buttons. So, if you're gonna switch sides, at least put the power button above or below the volume rocker to match other devices. My patience is running thin. I may be on the search for a new N20U. I still have my 10+, but the back screen's broken and the wifi antenna struggles to reconnect to existing wifi at times. Again, the brand alternatives are slim. I appreciate your point of view on tech.
Steigerelli said:
This is my first Android phone without a micro SD card, and it sucks trying to transfer large files. I'm coming from a Note 10+ with 256GB internal storage and a 512GB micro SD card. So, with a 512GB internal storage only, I'm already taking a step backwards. I've always kept most large files on my SD card and it was simple to place the SD card in the new phone. It's always made backups simple, ever since Android did away with USB Mass Storage. I know I'm old school, but I've also chosen the Note series because it's always been the Swiss Army Knife of cell phones. But, they constantly remove features to the point where there's very little differentiation from other phones. I wish I would've bought a Note 20 Ultra before Samsung stopped making them. But, who knew they would eliminate the micro SD completely. They did it with the Note 5 and apparently realized it was a mistake because they brought it back for the next 5 generations. I almost switched to the Xperia Pro or I III. Except Sony put 95% of their phone features into the camera. I run multiple businesses and I've always relied on the Note with the option of pulling the SD card for quick file transfer. We got minor upgrades in processor and battery, but I don't know if I can except the trade off for what's been omitted. This $1,300 phone might be going in the trash if I can't find some important trade-offs. So far, it seems like a downgrade to my 2019 premium phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're not wrong here, pal. I am trading in a N20U for this new S22U that I just received yesterday and the one thing I do dread, is having to backup constantly. I am certainly NOT going to succumb to cloud storage and it sucks ass through a straw to know that every time I add new memes to my collection that stays on my phone, I have to sift through to find those that aren't already backed up. In addition, I can no longer factory reset without affecting the external SD card. If a factory reset is done, EVERYTHING goes bye bye. While this new phone is extremely fast and in a class of its own, it sucks that Samsung went the Apple way — pretty lame.
Steigerelli said:
The left handed S-pen seems retarded. I understand (but still not happy with) the constant rearrangement of the power/volume buttons. I've gotten used to everything being on the left side. But, my Tab S6 has right side buttons. So, if you're gonna switch sides, at least put the power button above or below the volume rocker to match other devices. My patience is running thin. I may be on the search for a new N20U. I still have my 10+, but the back screen's broken and the wifi antenna struggles to reconnect to existing wifi at times. Again, the brand alternatives are slim. I appreciate your point of view on tech.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You still have patience with Samsung?
The rear cover for the N10+ is cheap. Replace the battery and anything else needed.
Get a rear cover seal and the seal or assembly for the cam cover if not included with the replacement.
I use the Zizo Bolt case as it gives good drop protection. Easy to hold and keep clean.
I think you should've done your research first since it was already advertised in the first place that it won't have an SD card slot. and before you pre-order, there are device specifications to look at. blaming won't Samsung will not help you, there's a lot of information leaking out before it was introduced to the public.
I came from being an avid user of microSD-cards as well, but as sadly most current phones don't support them any more I moved on....
What I use for file transfer is the app "Total Commander" together with the "Wifi Transfer" Plugin, then connect both phones via Wifi direct (is a bit faster than going over the Wifi router in my house which is used by the whole family) and then copy files over.... Oh, and don't forget to remove battery optimization for both TC and thw Wifi plugin.....
Maximo Beniares Jr. said:
I think you should've done your research first since it was already advertised in the first place that it won't have an SD card slot. and before you pre-order, there are device specifications to look at. blaming won't Samsung will not help you, there's a lot of information leaking out before it was introduced to the public.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did my research. There are a lot of us that have been discussing our frustration for months over the omission of the micro SD card slot. I still like a new premium phone every couple of years.
The truth is, unfortunately, these things are spy devices. We shouldn't be keeping personal files and data on these devices. Take your pics and videos and back them up off your device. I don't do the pathetic social media thing, too, so that helps and eliminates any need for personal pictures and videos having to stay on my device. I'm just giving a bit of perspective.
Coming from a note 10 plus with 256 internal and 512 sd card. Used smart switch through a cable and took around 2 hours to transfer 450 Gb of files. I do have the 1 tb model. Don't know if that makes a difference
Get a USB C style micro-sd adapter and plug it into the phone and an SD into that? At one point I am sure samsung were even shipping adapters with their first generation of USB C devices.
Something like this (this is just a quick google, I have not checked nor am I endorsing this particular product, or seller) - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/37378004...7779&msclkid=5a468d1beed019e9d88def02ff420f60
Edit: even trusted companies like kingston sell options, and it was compatible with the S21 Ultra, so should be fine on the S22 Ultra - https://www.mymemory.co.uk/kingston-mobilelite-duo-3c-microsd-card-reader.html
I dont know how this lack of mountable storage is such a big issue for people? Buy a phone with sufficient internal storage and call it a day. And as already mentioned, keeping your entire personal history on your phone is dumb.
I use my laptop to store my files and back them up to an external drive. Super easy to transfer what I need to my new phone.
I do a fresh install of my apps over a period of days priortizing by usage.
It is best to do a clean install. Using a file transfer app to move data and apps from one phone to another can lead to problems. I guess everyone wants an instantaneous process because they want quick and easy.
hand-filer said:
I dont know how this lack of mountable storage is such a big issue for people? Buy a phone with sufficient internal storage and call it a day. And as already mentioned, keeping your entire personal history on your phone is dumb.
I use my laptop to store my files and back them up to an external drive. Super easy to transfer what I need to my new phone.
I do a fresh install of my apps over a period of days priortizing by usage.
It is best to do a clean install. Using a file transfer app to move data and apps from one phone to another can lead to problems. I guess everyone wants an instantaneous process because they want quick and easy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, why I got a 1TB model. Also bought a Super Speed USB 3 cable and the transfers are lightning quick. The one that came with the phone is USB 2.0 speed.
Would you provide a link to the one you purchased?
I was in the exact same boat. I spent 2 days transferring files and it sucks.
It was two hours for me also. Bundled cable is 2.0 only? What's with all the high wattage cables being USB 2.0 only. Though honestly never really had high regards to Samsungs included cables, they fall apart within a couple month of just simple plug/replug (I don't manhandle devices or cables).
Anyone else go from 65% initial charge to ~ 20% in that span as well?
Steigerelli said:
This is my first Android phone without a micro SD card, and it sucks trying to transfer large files. I'm coming from a Note 10+ with 256GB internal storage and a 512GB micro SD card. So, with a 512GB internal storage only, I'm already taking a step backwards. I've always kept most large files on my SD card and it was simple to place the SD card in the new phone. It's always made backups simple, ever since Android did away with USB Mass Storage. I know I'm old school, but I've also chosen the Note series because it's always been the Swiss Army Knife of cell phones. But, they constantly remove features to the point where there's very little differentiation from other phones. I wish I would've bought a Note 20 Ultra before Samsung stopped making them. But, who knew they would eliminate the micro SD completely. They did it with the Note 5 and apparently realized it was a mistake because they brought it back for the next 5 generations. I almost switched to the Xperia Pro or I III. Except Sony put 95% of their phone features into the camera. I run multiple businesses and I've always relied on the Note with the option of pulling the SD card for quick file transfer. We got minor upgrades in processor and battery, but I don't know if I can except the trade off for what's been omitted. This $1,300 phone might be going in the trash if I can't find some important trade-offs. So far, it seems like a downgrade to my 2019 premium phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't trash it donate it to a charity for a good cause and stick with your Note 10+. YOU KNEW there was not gonna be an SD Card option but you bought it anyway. No SD Card and No Audio Jack is the future of phones. Without those it offers more space for the battery and better cooling solutions. If you have a 512 gb SD card why didn't you go with 512gb internal storage? It was only $100 more than 256gb which would have doubled your storage.
Paul_Deemer said:
Don't trash it donate it to a charity for a good cause and stick with your Note 10+. YOU KNEW there was not gonna be an SD Card option but you bought it anyway. No SD Card and No Audio Jack is the future of phones. Without those it offers more space for the battery and better cooling solutions. If you have a 512 gb SD card why didn't you go with 512gb internal storage? It was only $100 more than 256gb which would have doubled your storage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No SD card slot impacts chipset cooling options little. Most heat is dissipated through the display side and almost none through the frame rail.
Samsung better get their rabid gerbil dancing act together especially after their latest data breach atrocity.
Tired of Samsung telling the customer what they want and need. Screw that. Put out or get out Sammy.
My one N10+ is 512gb. It takes way too long to load that big a drive when you could simple slam in a loaded sd card and be good to go. That's what I did on my 2nd N10+, hit the ground running and setting it up.
blackhawk said:
No SD card slot impacts chipset cooling options little. Most heat is dissipated through the display side and almost none through the frame rail.
Samsung better get their rabid gerbil dancing act together especially after their latest data breach atrocity.
Tired of Samsung telling the customer what they want and need. Screw that. Put out or get out Sammy.
My one N10+ is 512gb. It takes way too long to load that big a drive when you could simple slam in a loaded sd card and be good to go. That's what I did on my 2nd N10+, hit the ground running and setting it up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They gonna do what they think is in the best interests of the majority of users and not the niche group (a few percentage) that actually fill up 512gb of storage. It's saves them money not having the SD card and increases their profits because they force you to buy a phone with more than the standard storage option. You got two choices. Accept it or buy a different brand.
As you know, the Google Pixel 3a does not have a microUSB slot, or any other on-board way to upgrade storage. I didn't realize this before I bought the phone, and I definitely need more storage than my phone offers.
I'm thinking about getting one of these tiny USB flash drives, along with one of these tiny USB-C adapters that slide into the larger USB jack. This would give my phone an attachment about the side of a dime.
I have not seen any low-profile flash drives like this that are designed to work with USB-C, but maybe they exist and I just haven't found them yet. Or, maybe there's a way to put some kind of low-profile card reader behind your phone case and feed a cable into the USB-C port. I'm not sure, but I'm sure some of you have at least pondered this, so I thought I'd get your ideas. Thanks.
Doesn't give the speed rating, it's a ringer... don't fall for it! Google's greedy MS like force the user to rely on cloud storage sucks. It degrades the usefulness and redundancy of their phones severely.
I use Samsung N10+'s as dual drive devices; all critical data goes on the 1tb SD card, only apps, the download and dcim folders are on the internal memory. The Samsung Extreme card is V30 rated, fast enough the record or stream HD movies. That's the way you do it.
Your only alternative is to use OTG flashsticks but bandwidth will be an issue especially the cheap ones. On a fast one you'll get 2gb/min maybe better or worse. On the Sandisk Extreme SD card I get over 4gb/min. The big Google lie about SD cards being irrelevant does the consumer a huge disservice. I can do a full reload and restore from my SD card, nothing else needed even store installable copies of all my apps there.
I use these OTG flashsticks for "dirty" backups on my N10+'s https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1658082-REG/sandisk_sdddc3_512g_a46_512gb_usb_c_a_plastic.html/?ap=y&lsft=BI:514&smp=y
Quality could be better but many of the others are trash in comparison to these. Get a .5tb one.
Lol, my data drive size is now 1tb so I use 2 .5tb flashsticks.
If the flashstick's price seems too good to be true that's because it is. Use large name brand flash memory only bought through reputable venders only. It will save you time, trouble and data loss...
I have so far not been convinced to buy a folding phone, because it offers absolutely nothing of benefit over the bar form factor. At best, it offers a different form factor that people may like just for a change.
The current folding designs when unfolded do not offer the correct viewing experience. When watching videos, there are these black horizontal bars on top and bottom, which is a complete waste of space.
The screen isn't wide enough to be used as a tablet or laptop either.
Typing isn't comfortable either. We are far more comfortable typing on the phone in portrait mode than when it is in landscape mode.
Overall, the current folding design is a change just for the sake of it.
However, it is a step towards transition to a much better form factor - the Bi-Folding design with 3 screens and 2 folding hinges! The phones should ideally be shorter than the bar form factor (something like the Oppo Find N series), so they unfold to become a tablet of the right dimensions.
This will truly offer perfect viewing experience when unfolded with minimal black bars (or bezels), and offer large enough display area to use it as a tablet or a computer. One can keep the unfolded phone on a stand and use a bluetooth keyboard to type on it.
If this news turns out to be true, then we can expect to see much improvised products in 2026 when the 3rd or 4th generation of double folding phones would become a reality, and offer a perfect alternative to the bar form factor.
This would likely also kill the current folding phones and tablets too, which won't make much sense then.
Source
Samsung is beyond redemption now; lost in their own bs marketing hype while failing to listen to long time customers. Devoid of functional, useful innovation the majority of their customers want.
More folding junk that is going to cause issues, not have expandable storage or a long lifespan without repairs and be insanely expensive.
Worse they picked a global recession to try this expensive experiment. Sky high Development costs and imited production numbers will mean no profit. Their already horrible customer support will get worse.
The box of rabid wet gerbils know as Samsung isn't serving their customers or investors well. What could go wrong?
Samsung should have stuck to the basics; a bar form factor (rather than a bloody brick) with near zero bezel, lots of hardware features that boost functionality (like the spen and 2tb expandable storage), fast/efficient processors, 12gb of ram, better firmware/software innovations and balance. A price around or under $1G.
blackhawk said:
Devoid of functional, useful innovation the majority of their customers want.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Although there are a few useful features that are missing (such as a built-in Firewall, AppLock, Multiple Users, and above all dual cell superfast charging), OneUI has the most features on a smartphone in the market today. What innovation ideas do you have in mind?
blackhawk said:
Sky high Development costs and imited production numbers will mean no profit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As with the 1st Fold, this too wouldn't be a device made for profit during the initial years. Their production costs would be categorised as R&D during the initial years.
As with external storage:
External storage isn't coming on flagships for four reasons:
1. It is way slower than internal storage (although I think they should allow it to be used only for storing user files like documents and media, and block installation of apps and storing of their data).
2. This allows them to make a lot of money on their higher storage variants.
3. This also allows them to force users to buy their cloud storage plans.
4. Even external storage in the form of micro SD card are super expensive today. One can argue that it makes more financial sense to use an external SSD instead that would be much more cheaper.
Overall, I would say you tend to be a bit unfair on Samsung. There is always a scope for improvement with all products and brands.
The Samsung innovation failures is more pecking than I care to do right now. Simply making bloatware installable be a easy, simple, welcomed one.
$125 for a Sandisk Extreme 1tb V30 card. A 256gb internal memory is sufficient (even though Samsung sells "flagships" now with a mere 128gb and no expandable storage).
An external solution is vastly inferior to an onboard data drive for several reasons including convenience, reliability, accessibility and speed.
Someone who never set up dual drive systems has no clue how useful these are when implemented and used correctly. Including another level of data redundancy if the OS crashes or if the phone is physically damaged and for new phone setup. Using a dual drive is a no brainer.
blackhawk said:
$125 for a Sandisk Extreme 1tb V30 card. A 256gb internal memory is sufficient (even though Samsung sells "flagships" now with a mere 128gb and no expandable storage).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a good amount of money. For that price, you could get a 2TB SSD. Higher storage variants of micro SD card are very expensive.
blackhawk said:
An external solution is vastly inferior to an onboard data drive for several reasons including convenience, reliability, accessibility and speed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Assuming you are talking about micro SD card, that's true but only for convenience.
On speeds, they are no comparison to portable SSDs, which by themselves are slower than internal storage. Accessibility is limited to the device they are on. SSDs are much more reliable too.
blackhawk said:
Someone who never set up dual drive systems has no clue how useful these are when implemented and used correctly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would be an assumption. This is like me saying "someone who has never used a cloud service has no clue about how secure, convenient and useful they are".
We choose what works best for us. The best solution is one that fits into our requirements the best. And this is different for different individuals.
blackhawk said:
Including another level of data redundancy if the OS crashes or if the phone is physically damaged and for new phone setup. Using a dual drive is a no brainer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No one is disagreeing with this. The company takes decisions that would give them maximum revenue, not just today but going forward too. Removing features like this to push people into using the cloud is essentially an investment for future.
TheMystic said:
That's a good amount of money. For that price, you could get a 2TB SSD. Higher storage variants of micro SD card are very expensive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Samsung is charging far more than that for a 1tb phone and dozens of gbs of that memory is tied up.
TheMystic said:
Assuming you are talking about micro SD card, that's true but only for convenience.
On speeds, they are no comparison to portable SSDs, which by themselves are slower than internal storage. Accessibility is limited to the device they are on. SSDs are much more reliable too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Data drives don't need to be fast, duh.
SSD's are just flash memory... enterprise class hdds are more reliable (platters still readable most times even if hardware fails). If a flash drive fails electrically, it's DOA.
TheMystic said:
We choose what works best for us. The best solution is one that fits into our requirements the best. And this is different for different individuals.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The point is having the choice. Secure cloud servers? You mean like Samsung's recently hacked ones?
TheMystic said:
No one is disagreeing with this. The company takes decisions that would give them maximum revenue, not just today but going forward too. Removing features like this to push people into using the cloud is essentially an investment for future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Alienating your customer base is a surefire way to lose profits needlessly. Samsung's current management is deceptive, makes up bs stories and simply can't be trusted. Until they grow up they will face increasing consumer discontentment on a grassroots level.
blackhawk said:
Samsung is charging far more than that for a 1tb phone and dozens of gbs of that memory is tied up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Internal storage is much faster and this premium is for that. Besides, the higher end models of any product are very profitable for all companies.
Dozens of GBs you're talking about is just a mathematical calculation of storage space. There is a discussion on this here.
blackhawk said:
Data drives don't need to be fast, duh.
SSD's are just flash memory... enterprise class hdds are more reliable (platters still readable most times even if hardware fails). If a flash drive fails electrically, it's DOA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree and I mentioned that in post #3 as well. SSDs have the advantage of being very compact and pocketable, HDDs are not.
blackhawk said:
The point is having the choice. Secure cloud servers? You mean like Samsung's recently hacked ones?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I mean it would be more secure than any I can setup myself. This is true for most people too. Companies do tend to have qualified professionals to manage security and redundancies, so it is the lesser evil.
blackhawk said:
Alienating your customer base is a surefire way to lose profits needlessly. Samsung's current management is deceptive, makes up bs stories and simply can't be trusted. Until they grow up they will face increasing consumer discontentment on a grassroots level.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most customers use the cloud storage. There are some services thay offer TBs of storage for free too, although I would personally never use those.
Cloud storage indeed have a very big advantage: ease of access anytime, anywhere and on any device! A reputed company like Google, Microsoft, Apple, etc. would have a very strong system in place to prevent catastrophe.
Since majority customers use cloud storage, and companies also find this more profitable, I don't see why they wouldn't want to take this route.
A lot of noise was made when they removed headphone jack, when charger was removed, etc. But the consumer accepted the reality and moved on. How many do you think will do what you do: an old phone running on an old software? Very few.
TheMystic said:
Internal storage is much faster and this premium is for that. Besides, the higher end models of any product are very profitable for all companies.
Dozens of GBs you're talking about is just a mathematical calculation of storage space. There is a discussion on this here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Critical data doesn't need fast storage. Typically at least 30gb are tied up with the OS and apps if not far more especially with scoped storage.
TheMystic said:
I agree and I mentioned that in post #3 as well. SSDs have the advantage of being very compact and pocketable, HDDs are not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hdds are used for bulletproof backups. One backup is not enough. I have a minimum of 4.
TheMystic said:
I mean it would be more secure than any I can setup myself. This is true for most people too. Companies do tend to have qualified professionals to manage security and redundancies, so it is the lesser evil.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A data drive is a layer of physical security a single drive machine lacks. It's the first backup for the DCIM folder. It's where copies of all apps are stored; no Playstore needed for reloads or app repairs. The right vetted copy every time.
TheMystic said:
Most customers use the cloud storage. There are some services thay offer TBs of storage for free too, although I would personally never use those.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's an assumption Google and Samsung like to push. A market other companies will eagerly capture for very little investment. Inept Samsung. The user defines the market not the vendor.
TheMystic said:
Cloud storage indeed have a very big advantage: ease of access anytime, anywhere and on any device! A reputed company like Google, Microsoft, Apple, etc. would have a very strong system in place to prevent catastrophe.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No internet, no nothing. I can watch hundreds of movies, play thousands of songs and do a full reload without the internet. The battery savings is worth it alone.
TheMystic said:
Since majority customers use cloud storage, and companies also find this more profitable, I don't see why they wouldn't want to take this route.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
An assumption again. Users who have limited storage are forced to use the only option they got. Sucks to be weak.
TheMystic said:
A lot of noise was made when they removed headphone jack, when charger was removed, etc. But the consumer accepted the reality and moved on. How many do you think will do what you do: an old phone running on an old software? Very few.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Expandable storage is a completely different animal. A dual drive PC, smartphone, etc will always trump a single drive.
No 3.5mm jack means more wear and tear on the poorly placed and inconvenient (for headphones) C port. There's plenty of room in the huge, bulky cow, the S23U has room for both these features. What a horrible form factor it has. Please don't repeat the falsehoods Samsung's VIPs make.
Samsung is more hype than action now.
blackhawk said:
Hdds are used for bulletproof backups. One backup is not enough. I have a minimum of 4.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All those are inaccessible until you physically connect them to your phone, or access them over the internet. They are pure backups.
I want you to also take into consideration 'accessibility' of data. This is only possible via an online server. If you have the expertise to setup a SECURE cloud on your own, then fine. Otherwise, the only option is to use a 3rd party cloud service.
blackhawk said:
A data drive is a layer of physical security a single drive machine lacks. It's the first backup for the DCIM folder. It's where copies of all apps are stored; no Playstore needed for reloads or app repairs. The right vetted copy every time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The hardware today is far better than those that existed during the floppy disk days. How often do you hear someone losing their data on a smartphone because of a disk failure? Most such cases (which by themselves are too few) are always a result of the user doing something he doesn't understand.
I too keep a copy of my favourite apps on my phone. Once in a while, I back them up to my PC (and my offline NAS). Same is true for other files. Photos and Videos are INSTANTLY backed up to multiple cloud storages, just as my documents. I do have a Google One subscription as well as Microsoft 365 subscription (which is best because it offers a total of 6 TB of cloud storage for a very reasonable price). And then I also sync them to my PC once in a while (not on a fixed schedule).
The most important advantage is the ease of access of these files from any device. Irrespective of which device I use, I have access to pretty much ALL files I need at any given point in time.
This is NOT possible if your setup doesn't use internet. And the moment internet comes into the picture, security is a major concern. Buying hardware to setup my own server is not a big deal. But keeping it secure is!
If you talk of recurring subscriptions, let me remind you that having local backups too require investment in hardware every few years, as it is not a question of 'if' but 'when' the disks would fail.
blackhawk said:
That's an assumption Google and Samsung like to push. A market other companies will eagerly capture for very little investment. Inept Samsung. The user defines the market not the vendor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Data Centers are EXPENSIVE investment. I don't know where you got your data from. Any cloud service provider has to setup a system which is secure, with built-in redundancies, and employ high quality professionals to manage it.
Big Players set these up in very cold countries to save on electricity, and keep multiple backups in different locations around the world to prevent catastrophe.
blackhawk said:
No internet, no nothing. I can watch hundreds of movies, play thousands of songs and do a full reload without the internet. The battery savings is worth it alone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As before, apps and services are continuously optimised and there isn't too much battery drain when streaming. On the contrary, video streaming is extremely power efficient even over the internet if you have a fast internet connection.
Check out the stats here. I don't think your N10+ would beat it.
blackhawk said:
An assumption again. Users who have limited storage are forced to use the only option they got. Sucks to be weak.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This isn't an assumption. Most people indeed use cloud services. Check out Google Play Store to see how many people have downloaded apps providing cloud storage.
blackhawk said:
Expandable storage is a completely different animal. A dual drive PC, smartphone, etc will always trump a single drive.
No 3.5mm jack means more wear and tear on the poorly placed and inconvenient (for headphones) C port. There's plenty of room in the huge, bulky cow, the S23U has room for both these features. What a horrible form factor it has. Please don't repeat the falsehoods Samsung's VIPs make.
Samsung is more hype than action now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm all for having an expandable storage inside the phone just for saving user files and media. As mentioned before, I'm fine if apps aren't allowed to write 'AppData' to it. Companies are indeed trying to push customers to either upgrade to a higher storage variant or use the cloud, both of which means more money to them.
Removing the Headphone jack too was nothing more than pushing people to buy Bluetooth earphones. Space (or the lack of it) was just stupid excuse.
The Ultra series of phones from Samsung have a superb form factor. Not sure why you call them horrible.
TheMystic said:
The Ultra series of phones from Samsung have a superb form factor. Not sure why you call them horrible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thicker, and 30gm heavier than the N10+ with a worse display/bezel ratio. Spen on the wrong side. blah. Small wonder the N10+ is still so popular.
With V60 and V90 rated flash cards out their speed is only increasing. There's no substitute for a dual drive device.
Just admit what Samsung won't; Samsung screwed up big time in multiple ways. Their tour of the hurt locker is going to cost them a lot. tff.