Related
So after playing with my Surface for 5 days now, it is obvious there is a lot of capability in the back end through the Desktop. II have networked printers, and drives at both home and office going, streaming content etc. It is very capable for what it is, way beyond any other Ipad and Android tablet out there. So it seems to me it is just a matter of time before some XDAer figures out a way to unleash it and possibly load other programs (non-RT) programs some way. We know the official MS word is no, but it seems to me it is a fully capable Win8 machine that just has some goierners on it and limited processing power, just waiting to be cracked.
Am I just dreaming?
I would love to see this happen. The one thing holding me back from purchasing one. I'd love a Windows 8 Pro version tablet at the Surface RT pricing but wouldn't we all...
I dont think rt can run x86 app properly. Because the cpu is not as good as x86 core. I am interested in porting rt to compatiable device such as tergra 2 and 3 pad.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda app-developers app
liu2002 said:
I dont think rt can run x86 app properly. Because the cpu is not as good as x86 core. I am interested in porting rt to compatiable device such as tergra 2 and 3 pad.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think it's necessarily about the Tegra being "as good" as an x86 - the issue is that you'd need an emulator, or the source for the x86 app which you'd then need to re-compile for ARM. I believe MS made a developer toolkit available that allows simpler conversion from x86 to ARM but it's still up to the app vendors to do it.
In theory, the same code could compile for both x86/64 and ARM (RT), but VS2012 will not allow you to compile an ARM desktop app. There is no legit way to write/compile a desktop app on RT. Its an arbitrary BS limitation put in place by MS. You cannot side load apps, everything must come through the MS store, RT enterprise being an exception... which doesn't help us. And the MS store will only offer Metro apps. MS office shows that's desktop apps are fully possible, albeit recoded/recompiled for ARM, but MS will not allow it. In an ideal world, RT would be a fully supported OS, and the likes of Adobe and others could release desktop apps for RT, but sadly it won't happen.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Skitals said:
In an ideal world, RT would be a fully supported OS, and the likes of Adobe and others could release desktop apps for RT, but sadly it won't happen.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why do you say that?
Because its not allowed, only metro style apps published through the app store are allowed. Even if you compile compatible desktop software, the OS won't run it. Its a closed sandbox.
At best we can hope for a "homebrew" community to compile open source software, and find some hacks to get it running.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Hello,
I’m a happy owner of the Surface RT and I just wanted to add my 2c.
I think that Metro UI is great for tablet, but lacks apps !
So I cannot understand why Microsoft didn’t include .Net on this platform ! I think the main goal and the first “Homebrew” must be recompilation of Mono for ARM. As this will allow us develop a lot of programs, quickly and using “good” tools (Visual )
I just started to study WinRT and I’m already hitting a lot of blocks (For instance, I cannot find a way to open Shared Socket ! So if any other app listen on 1900 port, I lose my SSDP discovery... )
But I think recompilation of Mono is definitely a way to go ! I think i’ll try it this week-end, if I have some time, but It’s sure I will not be able install on my surface As for now it seems to be impossible to enter Testing Mode on it.
Jurion
jurion said:
So I cannot understand why Microsoft didn’t include .Net on this platform !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think people seem to be missing something here (well, not just here, on other threads/forums.blogs too). MS have essentially (it’s really quite impressive) ported over the entire Windows OS to run on ARM – and this includes all of .NET v4 with supporting libraries/DLLs.
You only have to pop to C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v4.0.30319 on your Surface RT to see – all the same libraries for the same version of .NET a x86 desktop seem to be there - including Linq, SQL, reflection etc.
Now, this could be really great news! I’d bet that it would be entirely possible for standard .NET applications (by standard, I mean programs that only use managed code and nothing legacy) to be reasonably easily recompiled to run on ARM - ideally as easyily as changing a drop-down!
Furthermore, this is all supported in Visual Studio, it’s just locked down a bit - I’ve been able to compile, with VS2012 (and a minor tweak to remove the ARM compile block) a simple command line EXE for ARM (using .NET calls – though only in C++ which is a shame). The problem is, as soon I open it on Surface, I get an error saying the ‘digital certificate’ couldn't be validated – a common issue which has a simple fix documented online. The catch... that the instructions to remove this block don’t work with secure boot enabled, and - at present - we can’t disable this on the Surface (on normal PCs this can be turned off in the bios).
So – the key to all this, is for MS to open it up (not impossible, but who knows if or when) or for someone to get round this secure boot/certificate requirement. I’m sure there’s some smart people on here with abilities to work on, and hopefully succeed in doing this. Even if people aren't able to work a way round this block, I'm hopefully that eventually MS may release some firmware update tools that someone can hack to switch off UEFI secure boot. Or perhaps someone at MS or a partner may leak some file/app/boot that unlocks this for dev/enterprise purposes.
I look forward to it happening!
T
Skitals said:
In theory, the same code could compile for both x86/64 and ARM (RT), but VS2012 will not allow you to compile an ARM desktop app. There is no legit way to write/compile a desktop app on RT. Its an arbitrary BS limitation put in place by MS. You cannot side load apps, everything must come through the MS store, RT enterprise being an exception... which doesn't help us. And the MS store will only offer Metro apps. MS office shows that's desktop apps are fully possible, albeit recoded/recompiled for ARM, but MS will not allow it. In an ideal world, RT would be a fully supported OS, and the likes of Adobe and others could release desktop apps for RT, but sadly it won't happen.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Everything doesn't have to come through the MS store, you can install applications that you build in Visual Studio 2012 for Windows Store, create an appx package and choose not to publish it in Windows Store. VS2012 then creates an appx package as well as a PowerShell script that you can run on Surface, accept security warning, get the developer's license on the device (it's free) and that's it!
It is fairly obvious why MS does not allow installation of "Desktop" apps on ARM tablets. Otherwise dev's would get lazy and just recompile desktop apps for ARM. The experience on a touch tablet would not be great on (unmodified) Desktop apps, hence Microsoft set this constraint on Windows RT in order to push dev's towards making a proper touch friendly app. The result is of course the lack of apps initially, but in the long run the benefits will be a greater experience as the apps would be optimized for touch.
Sure there are obvious downsides to this strategy, but the decision itself makes a lot of sense from a useability standpoint. You already read the complaints in reviews about "Office" not being Metro-style and unfriendly to touch. However this is naturally a decision due to time constraints, because MS would have also preferred to not include a desktop on RT. Office is the selling point now, to gravitate people towards RT and when there is enough demand, the touch friendly (Metro) apps will flow in eventually
Backflipping said:
I think people seem to be missing something here (well, not just here, on other threads/forums.blogs too). MS have essentially (it’s really quite impressive) ported over the entire Windows OS to run on ARM – and this includes all of .NET v4 with supporting libraries/DLLs.
You only have to pop to C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v4.0.30319 on your Surface RT to see – all the same libraries for the same version of .NET a x86 desktop seem to be there - including Linq, SQL, reflection etc.
Now, this could be really great news! I’d bet that it would be entirely possible for standard .NET applications (by standard, I mean programs that only use managed code and nothing legacy) to be reasonably easily recompiled to run on ARM - ideally as easyily as changing a drop-down!
Furthermore, this is all supported in Visual Studio, it’s just locked down a bit - I’ve been able to compile, with VS2012 (and a minor tweak to remove the ARM compile block) a simple command line EXE for ARM (using .NET calls – though only in C++ which is a shame). The problem is, as soon I open it on Surface, I get an error saying the ‘digital certificate’ couldn't be validated – a common issue which has a simple fix documented online. The catch... that the instructions to remove this block don’t work with secure boot enabled, and - at present - we can’t disable this on the Surface (on normal PCs this can be turned off in the bios).
So – the key to all this, is for MS to open it up (not impossible, but who knows if or when) or for someone to get round this secure boot/certificate requirement. I’m sure there’s some smart people on here with abilities to work on, and hopefully succeed in doing this. Even if people aren't able to work a way round this block, I'm hopefully that eventually MS may release some firmware update tools that someone can hack to switch off UEFI secure boot. Or perhaps someone at MS or a partner may leak some file/app/boot that unlocks this for dev/enterprise purposes.
I look forward to it happening!
T
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm, sorry my bad, didn't look enougth to find .Net assemblies.
As for open it for MS, may be, maaaay be it's the same scheme which they followed with Windows Phone 7.
No native developpment for 7.0 -- 7.8
But they open it for 8.0
May be they just want to force people developp Metro app to populate the store first.
So where's the best place to get one?
I'm looking into buying one very very soon, I found some on ebay for $585 with the cover, That sounds like a win to me. I wish QVC had it, That'd be lovely.
I'm praying we get a work around for all this, But still If the device isn't made for it, I can't be mad that it doesn't do it, That's like being angry that my car doesn't fly.
But it's such a tease, it worries me that I'll have an entire desktop, Sitting, Obselete, With nothing but Office, which I wont even use.
Can't_Live_Without_My_Evo said:
I'm looking into buying one very very soon, I found some on ebay for $585 with the cover, That sounds like a win to me. I wish QVC had it, That'd be lovely.
I'm praying we get a work around for all this, But still If the device isn't made for it, I can't be mad that it doesn't do it, That's like being angry that my car doesn't fly.
But it's such a tease, it worries me that I'll have an entire desktop, Sitting, Obselete, With nothing but Office, which I wont even use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is made for it. It has the full desktop, and the full desktop Office suite. Its a big tease. The whole "do more" campaign advertises you can "click in" and have full laptop productivity with touchpad and mouse/keyboard. Except the only software to take advantage of it is desktop IE and Office.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
For those interested...
I've put the native Windows RT binaries for Apache 2.0 on GitHub:
https://github.com/bfosterjr/windowsrtdev/blob/master/apps/Apache/2.0.65/bin/apache_2.0.65_arm.7z
Don't even bother asking me how to configure it. There are hundreds of wiki pages, documents, books, etc dedicated to Apache configuration.
Its probably missing some features (SSL comes to mind), but its a working web server for people to tinker with on the tablet. If someone can give me a _compelling reason_ for wanting a full blown Apache web server on a Windows RT tablet, I'm happy to spend more time on this and make it more fully featured.
Cheers!
bfosterjr said:
If someone can give me a _compelling reason_ for wanting a full blown Apache web server on a Windows RT tablet, I'm happy to spend more time on this and make it more fully featured.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure about use-cases either, but still, this is seriously cool!
Reasons for maintaining a full-blown (at least partial, without HTTPS fancy stuff, but the essentials like mod_rewrite etc.) WAMP (so MySQL and PHP too) stack on Windows RT would be:
1. There would be a platform for developing and testing websites on a Windows RT tablet, much to the delight of potential web developers. We already have Notepad++ as a decent code editor.
2. Porting MySQL (+ libmysql) would be useful for other applications as a library itself, and then PHP is a (overly) popular scripting language which can also be used to develop console applications (php-cli is compiled along with PHP. along with the Apache extension for mod_php). There probably won't be many native Windows RT applications developed for it (the only library for PHP to develop really useful native GUI apps is Php-Gtk, but GTK+ isn't ported and the PHP-GTK project itself is very.. silent), but it is handy if quick stuff needs to be coded. Porting PHP is pretty much close to the reasons for porting Python, plus it can be used on a local web stack too.
3. When a MAMP stack was ported to iOS I remember someone made a working music player (PHPPod) with it, so it still might be useful if the resources are there. I'll personally think of some ideas for "apps" that can be run in the browser with the WAMP stack on Windows RT and try to code them if this is ported.
I know this is a potentially dangerous post, but I'm looking for suggestions for things to port. I make no promises that I'll be willing/able to port any suggested software.
Some ground rules before you hit 'reply'
1) Don't ask for Chrome. I won't port it. Period.
2) The source code must be available and not have any _obvious_ specific ties to non-open source code. Eg: some proprietary or closed source library which it depends on.
3) Code must be in C or C++ (I can deal with porting some assembly if needed)
4) Project must be of a _reasonable_ size for 1 person. Honestly, I do this on my own and in my spare time. Some apps can be just massively overwhelming to port. That being sad, sometimes the big ones are also easy.... so use your own judgement here.
5) Tell me why you want it ported. Whats your "use case".
6) Drivers aren't out of the question, but they generally take significantly more work.
Feel free to +1 others suggestions.
Ok.. <puts on protective gear>.. fire away!
Cheers!
Thanks for all your awesome work.
While this isn't an app, I think that the kexec kernel-mode driver idea that was tossed around earlier would be waay more useful than an individual app. Every time it was brought up somebody said "Oh, that won't be much work." And then nobody did anything :-/
So, I'm hugely grateful for the time you put in here, but I think I'd be even huger-ly grateful-er if you opened the door to other OSs.
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What would be good is:
http://ekiga.org/download-ekiga-binaries-or-source-code
But I'm pretty sure it uses some libraries not avail
I wish XNA could run on Windows RT. It'd be funny to see Terraria and Magicka on Windows RT...
Firefox would be nice, but without a Thumb-2 JITter, it's not worth it.
Would be nice to have InSSIDer. I use it a lot on my laptop, rather leave it at home.
https://github.com/metageek-llc/inSSIDer-2
Myriachan said:
I wish XNA could run on Windows RT. It'd be funny to see Terraria and Magicka on Windows RT...
Firefox would be nice, but without a Thumb-2 JITter, it's not worth it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would say to take a look at monogame. It can actually build microsoft store apps including ARM support, so coercing it into functioning on the windows desktop may be possible. Otherwise it might end up being a rule 4 :/
There are hacks out there to run terraria on MonoGame instead of XNA, most of them pretty complete but sometimes have the odd graphical glitch. A full source port to MonoGame would be far more reliable, and actually very simple, but sadly its closed source (although not obfuscated).
One of the supposedly more reliable ones: http://www.terrariaonline.com/threads/wip-monogame-terraria-terraria-for-linux.72997/
Isn't rule one covered by rule four?
SixSixSevenSeven said:
Isn't rule one covered by rule four?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No.
People can have bad judgement.. so I'm making an explicit point about Chrome.
Personally i Was really disappointed by the lack of a transmission remote app when i discovered métro interface!
Plus there are many utorrent app...
SO, i think TR Gui source code is available, i think there is many people interested, And i think it will not be too difficult to develop, that can be a wonderfull idea (especially for me ) to make this one
Just found one. TCPMP, this player worked great during the PocketPC/Windows Mobile era. It moved from open source to a commercial different version which is closed source but I believe the link below has the source.
http://www.hpcfactor.com/downloads/tcpmp/
This would bring about a player that supports MKV playback.
lambstone said:
Just found one. TCPMP, this player worked great during the PocketPC/Windows Mobile era. It moved from open source to a commercial different version which is closed source but I believe the link below has the source.
http://www.hpcfactor.com/downloads/tcpmp/
This would bring about a player that supports MKV playback.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no source code downloadable from that site. All the links are non-existent. Please post the source code if you have it.
Cheers!
bfosterjr said:
There is no source code downloadable from that site. All the links are non-existent. Please post the source code if you have it.
Cheers!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does this help http://code.google.com/p/tcpmp-revive/source/browse/#svn/trunk
mr djé said:
Personally i Was really disappointed by the lack of a transmission remote app when i discovered métro interface!
Plus there are many utorrent app...
SO, i think TR Gui source code is available, i think there is many people interested, And i think it will not be too difficult to develop, that can be a wonderfull idea (especially for me ) to make this one
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2101891
mr djé said:
Personally i Was really disappointed by the lack of a transmission remote app when i discovered métro interface!
Plus there are many utorrent app...
SO, i think TR Gui source code is available, i think there is many people interested, And i think it will not be too difficult to develop, that can be a wonderfull idea (especially for me ) to make this one
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the problem with the current torrent apps are you either have to pay to get the ability to download files in the background, or the app doesn't support it. I'd like to see a free torrent client that allows background downloading, even if it means speed has to be throttled a bit.
To the OP what is your favorite browser? If it is not Chrome(or Chromium), do you think it is possible to port that browser? At this point I'll even take Safari as I am starting to hate all the crashes that occur for me in IE.
bigsnack said:
I think the problem with the current torrent apps are you either have to pay to get the ability to download files in the background, or the app doesn't support it. I'd like to see a free torrent client that allows background downloading, even if it means speed has to be throttled a bit.
To the OP what is your favorite browser? If it is not Chrome(or Chromium), do you think it is possible to port that browser? At this point I'll even take Safari as I am starting to hate all the crashes that occur for me in IE.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Safari is not open source so cannot be ported.
Chrome is a rule 4 - or in other words is too much effort for 1 man to do in a reasonable time frame.
Firefox is also a rule 4, plus its a ***** to get it to compile properly under microsoft tools apparently, plus its javascript engine is raw ARMv7 JIT whereas windows RT bugs with that and would require a THUMB2 JIT. Chrome also would have javascript issues, although in chrome you can have an interpreted javascript engine I think which would just be hideously slow in comparison.
Opera - Closed source.
The list goes on unfortunately. Browsers are complex creatures. Most will come under rule 4 though.
bigsnack said:
I think the problem with the current torrent apps are you either have to pay to get the ability to download files in the background, or the app doesn't support it. I'd like to see a free torrent client that allows background downloading, even if it means speed has to be throttled a bit.
To the OP what is your favorite browser? If it is not Chrome(or Chromium), do you think it is possible to port that browser? At this point I'll even take Safari as I am starting to hate all the crashes that occur for me in IE.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What the hell are you doing to get all these crashes? I have yet to have IE crash on 8 or 8.1 on RT in desktop or metro.
My only suggestion would be a gui SFTP client. This is probably the one utility I am currently missing on my Surface RT (I use ssh to remote into Linux systems both for work and personal use, point #5). To clarify, I do use the psftp client in the putty suit, and that works well enough, just takes a bit more time and effort than something like winscp. I can continue to use this if an gui alternative is not feasible.
I recall someone requesting winscp at some point in the past, so I searched around this forum and I did find a couple of people that took a stab at it, but with no results, and I haven't found a clear explanation on what the hang up was. Looking at the readme winscp appears to be written in c++ at least (point #3):
To build WinSCP you need:
- Embarcadero C++ Builder XE2 Professional.
- Copy MFC source code from Borland C++ Builder 6 Professional and
build its Unicode version (see readme_mfc.txt).
- nasm from http://www.nasm.us/
- To build 64-bit version of drag&drop shell extension, you need
Windows Platform SDK:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/bb980924
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am unsure if the aforementioned Windows Platform SDK is available for Windows RT, or if it is even needed since Windows RT is not 64-bit.
Is nasm the problem? It looks to be an x86/x64 assembler... which of course wouldn't work on ARM... unless I just don't get what an assembler is...
Not being much of a coder I also don't know if one can import a Borland C++ project into Visual Studio, so maybe that is also a problem too.
So I guess I'm not sure on a lot of the points on the ground rules list...
domboy said:
My only suggestion would be a gui SFTP client. This is probably the one utility I am currently missing on my Surface RT (I use ssh to remote into Linux systems both for work and personal use, point #5). To clarify, I do use the psftp client in the putty suit, and that works well enough, just takes a bit more time and effort than something like winscp. I can continue to use this if an gui alternative is not feasible.
I recall someone requesting winscp at some point in the past, so I searched around this forum and I did find a couple of people that took a stab at it, but with no results, and I haven't found a clear explanation on what the hang up was. Looking at the readme winscp appears to be written in c++ at least (point #3):
I am unsure if the aforementioned Windows Platform SDK is available for Windows RT, or if it is even needed since Windows RT is not 64-bit.
Is nasm the problem? It looks to be an x86/x64 assembler... which of course wouldn't work on ARM... unless I just don't get what an assembler is...
Not being much of a coder I also don't know if one can import a Borland C++ project into Visual Studio, so maybe that is also a problem too.
So I guess I'm not sure on a lot of the points on the ground rules list...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Borland C++ is an alternative set of 3rd part C++ tools. Would take a bit of work to get a borland project to compile it under microsoft tools.
Nasm is an x86/x64 assembler yes. Assembly language is pretty much the lowest level of programming possible before writing in raw hex or binary. It is *HIGHLY* CPU dependent. Specifically the set of commands available in assembly is the plain text form of the exact instruction set the CPU has available which for x86 is different from ARM. The fact that nasm is required means that the project will have assembly in it, therefore an RT port will not be undertaken (one of the rules in the OP).
Sorry man, its proprietary tools and parts of it are unportable anyway. Doesnt mean another SFTP client can't be ported, just this one.
Here's my wishlist. I've poked at some of them, but I don't really have time to finish any of them.
WinPCap - Iirc, the biggest issue was that it was written targeting an older version of NDIS. The usecase would be to provide network support for BOCHS.
QEmu - There's a build of QEmu that builds on MSVC called WinQEmu, but it's dynarec recompiles to x86 only. I believe the official QEmu repo doesn't support MSVC, and I don't know if it can recompile to THUMB-2.
A good IRC client - X-Chat and mIRC run poorly under the emulator, and the few .net clients I've tried are meh. X-Chat has too many GCC-specific requirements, and mIRC isn't open source, I just want a good IRC client.
An X Server - I've been unable to find an X server that builds with MSVC, or anything short of Cygwin for that matter, but I'd love to have one.
Calibre is a good eBook manager I think this is the correct source code https://code.launchpad.net/calibre
I'm not good with this source code stuff so if its to much you dont need to make a port but if you can it would be appreciated thanks
Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 4
cx1 said:
What the hell are you doing to get all these crashes? I have yet to have IE crash on 8 or 8.1 on RT in desktop or metro.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Browsing news sites and/or using Spotify.
First off, it is silly that I cannot post a reply straight into the thread, and have to create a new thread in an unrelated area of the forums, as I am a new user (or have less than 10 posts).
Ok, as regards the Windows RT and lock down of the Desktop Applications development, how do the internal programs get past this block? As per many other comments it would appear that Windows RT is a recompilation of Windows 8 and has many like for like .dll's, etc. If the Office 2013 suite can run under the desktop, is it because Microsoft has signed the app with a certificate that is not available to other developers? Does this mean that under the previous EU ruling they are breaching some law in that they are using resources to give themselves an advantage that other developers cannot take advantage of?
I think the only reason they have locked down Windows RT like this is so that this cheap OS does not eat into their regular Windows 8 sales. Certainly I bought a Windows RT device because it is more compatible with my work habits (due to Office 2013) than the Android and iPads I have used in the past. If I could easily use tools like PuTTY, then there would be little reason for me to use a normal laptop or other device.
I doubt Microsoft really watches these discussions in any serious way, but one of the key reasons I chose Windows RT over Android and iPad is because when I need the flexibility of many windows open at the same time and side by side I can do that, but when I want the uncluttered quick environment then New UI does that as well.
Samsung, with Android, is starting to allow a couple apps together, but try to run an Excel Spreadsheet and read your banking web site at the same time to transpose the figures into your budgeting file, and iPad/Android are tedious but Windows RT is a breeze, it is what Windows does best. Microsoft should understand that apart from everything else they do, they provide an OS and should let developers get the most out of that OS, just like Android and iPad developers can push those OS's.
oucarso econcomy
What's more awesome is that new users can't post outside links either. This might be of interest to you www[dot]makeuseof[dot]com/tag/how-to-jailbreak-your-windows-rt-device-and-run-unapproved-desktop-software/
Thanks for the link
My post came as a result of researching the Jail Break idea, I had not seen that page yet. I downloaded the patch and it worked very well. Pity it does not detail why the program goes to the internet the first time it is run, but I assume it is to get the certificate?
Seems like most posters are really happy to have PuTTY working (which is exactly what I wanted). Is it hard to create a New UI App?, maybe someone just needs to compile PuTTY as a New UI app as a terminal emulator should be pretty straight forward.
While I understand that new Intel chips are just around the corner, Surface RT is only $400.00 (64Gb, Touch keyboard) so pretty cheap, so being able to sit on the couch and browse emails, internet and also manage my Linux boxes is really good.
I can do the same thing on my Android TAB, but it is tedious changing screens all the time. New UI has the same problem, always flicking between all the programs. This is what Windows does best, so don't understand why MS would take away from that tried and true model, except they are probably trying to protect their full Windows 8 investment. Instead what they will find is the Windows RT dies a quick death and that is a wasted investment (if that happens they should have just made a New UI only version and got Office to work within that environment if Office is the main reason for the Desktop in Windows RT).
Hey everyone. Looking at trying to pickup a Surface RT during the black friday sale. I primarily want to use it for taking notes in class. What do you all think of the original RT with the 8.1 update? Worth getting it, or should I spend my money on something else?
On a side note: It's between a Surface RT (at black friday prices), a chromebook, and the Nvidia Note 7. I can see the pros and cons of all the devices, but a) I am entrenched in google's ecosystem (gmail, google keep, google drive, google music, etc) and b) I am going to school for computer engineering.
So what do you all think?
Sent from my GT-P7310 using Tapatalk 4
It will work great for notes if you get the Type Cover, there is no active pen support. But it's not that great with Google services. You will have a much better experience using Outlook, OneNote och Skydrive with the Surface.
Sorry I'm not much help here, never used a chromebook nor the Nvidia =).
I used my RT for note taking for a few months before moving on to the pro model, and it was a pretty good experience. I would have a notes doc open in reader and copy/paste stuff from it into one note and type additional info in various combinations. If you are interested in using google docs on the RT, that may dissuade you, as it's quite laggy. I had no such issues just using the office software for that sort of thing. For google apps, the only workaround I really had to look for was a google voice app, the rest of what I use was just fine via browser and the built in mail app.
I ended up moving to a Pro due to a few limitations that I ran into:
- inability to run the e-testing software we use on the RT (lockdown browser and a security.exe file)
- desire to do more pen writing for some notes (really just chemical reactions and such, things that don't lend themselves to typing)
If you have a laptop as a backup for any software you need on your course then yeah. Chances are on a computer engineering course it will be useless for anything other than a glorified pen and paper replacement (as would the other 2 choices).
As long as you are ok using Google Apps in a browser only, an RT can work well enough (I can't comment on the rest of your use cases). My employer uses Google Apps for Education as our primary email so I've done it. If a jailbreak is released for RT 8.1 I am curious how well (or not) Outlook RT will work with gmail, especially since I won't be able to run the sync software Windows 7 and previous could (I don't know if it works with Windows 8).
domboy said:
As long as you are ok using Google Apps in a browser only, an RT can work well enough (I can't comment on the rest of your use cases). My employer uses Google Apps for Education as our primary email so I've done it. If a jailbreak is released for RT 8.1 I am curious how well (or not) Outlook RT will work with gmail, especially since I won't be able to run the sync software Windows 7 and previous could (I don't know if it works with Windows 8).
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You have always been able to add IMAP accounts in outlook and GMail offers full IMAP support.
MS Office can save in open document formats (ODT instead of doc/docx etc). Google docs also use these formats under the hood or can at least attempt (albeit poorly) to import .doc and .docx etc anyway. Could certainly download your file, open it in MS Office, save it in open office formats, re-upload to google drive. In my experience MS Word outputting to ODT works better than google docs or libre office importing DOC and DOCX
SixSixSevenSeven said:
If you have a laptop as a backup for any software you need on your course then yeah. Chances are on a computer engineering course it will be useless for anything other than a glorified pen and paper replacement (as would the other 2 choices).
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My original plan was chrome book + chrome remote desktop to my gaming PC at home, but the surface and tegra note 7 wouldn't provide that. Then again, the surface is a bit stronger in the notes department and portability, and the tegra note would excel at math notes (its a math and physics heavy degree)
Unfortunately, my budget is very limiting, and I cannot get multiple devices. I have an old netbook loaded with my sata2 ssd, and mint Linux right now, but the performance is meh, and the resolution is abysmal...
My desktop should suffice for specialized software, but I am really needing a device for notes (I write slow, but type fast, at least with a real keyboard).
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
bluefalcon13 said:
My original plan was chrome book + chrome remote desktop to my gaming PC at home, but the surface and tegra note 7 wouldn't provide that. Then again, the surface is a bit stronger in the notes department and portability, and the tegra note would excel at math notes (its a math and physics heavy degree)
Unfortunately, my budget is very limiting, and I cannot get multiple devices. I have an old netbook loaded with my sata2 ssd, and mint Linux right now, but the performance is meh, and the resolution is abysmal...
My desktop should suffice for specialized software, but I am really needing a device for notes (I write slow, but type fast, at least with a real keyboard).
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
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Surface would do remote desktop just fine. Windows RT being a near straight port of windows 8 to ARM (minus the desktop lockdown) does include RDP support which is the default windows remote desktop software, although there are 3rd party RDP servers for OSX and linux too. RDP is very effective.
You also have VNC as an alternative to RDP. There are VNC clients and servers for most major platforms including android and jailbroken windows RT devices (this does limit to windows RT 8.0, although looks like the 8.1 jailbreak isnt far off).
Although in all honesty. I wouldnt rely on remote desktop access.
Will you be returning home each day and can you also use the machines at university? You may be able to get away without bringing your own full x86 machine. Otherwise I would seriously be considering a laptop or x86 windows tablet. There is the ASUS T100 for £350 which is a windows 8.1 10" tablet with a proper keyboard docking option too and using intel bay trail, but at £350 you can get a laptop with a bigger screen (also important) which is morepowerful too.
There are people on my course that bring surface RT's (and a few pro's too) and take notes in lectures, but they all end up fighting for lab computers the rest of the time and I dont think you can rely on remote desktop always being available or having a low enough latency, not to mention some university or college firewalls blocking it.