Related
http://mashable.com/2011/03/24/honeycomb-delay/
Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk
just saw this. Not happy about it. The source may lead to buggy phone versions, but its also very important to everyone who will get left behind trying to get 3.0 upgrades from their manufacturer.
Now that's not good ...
Sniff.. sniff.. HONEYCREAMS! Why devs no give me honeycreams for my gtab?
I'm guessing this is not good for my drooling alter ego.
It is not release to the general public, but manufactures still got access to it, so maybe VS will have it updated
It is possible that Google's attempt to not shoot itself in the right foot will result in it shooting itself in the left foot.
Not surprised at all
They do not want to see sub 300$ device with their flagship os, they want big partner to ramp-up production and sales first...
I am far from certain that company get it for free this time, same for us... hey it's google not the vatican, I place google not far from apple on my list of big bad ugly corp...
Beside as much as I like to play with a new release I am not into such an hurry since Honeycomb is kindalike a new os not 100 % compatible with the current apps it seems
wow really.....tsk.....tsk by that definition it mean the xoom wasnt ready and there it is in the stores for purchase......thats just shameful ow well i sold my gtab days ago and my ipad 2 will be in my hand april 15, between this and the security problems that was in the market (i actually got an email from google and i dont know which app it was if anyone knows the names of the apps tell me) im off android for a while
I would like to sympathize but I can't I dislike false information, the security issue you mention is transmission of IMEI... big deal... apps store like handhango where asking for it to do DRM for ages...
If you wanted and preferred an IPAD that's your right, we can understand that build quality is there...
P00r said:
I would like to sympathize but I can't I dislike false information, the security issue you mention is transmission of IMEI... big deal... nokia and other apps store like handhango where asking for it to do DRM for ages...
If you wanted and preferred an IPAD that's your right, we can understand that build quality is there...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what false information.....i just said i got and email from google telling me some apps was taking information from my tab and ask someone to tell me their names
Yes... The only way i see for now is to ask viewsonic for the update.
Do you know any way to make viewsonic make it faster???
P00r said:
Not surprised at all
They do not want to see sub 300$ device with their flagship os, they want big partner to ramp-up production and sales first...
I am far from certain that company get it for free this time, same for us... hey it's google not the vatican, I place google not far from apple on my list of big bad ugly corp... ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
x2
They wanna be the new Microsoft, tried to mess with Fiber and probably got spanked on the bottom by the big boys....maybe Microsoft will be the new Google, and apple.... well apple makes a solid product, i dig my macbook, but Steve Jobs can suck it.
AT&T buys T-Mobile and THIS in the same week?! FML.
If they release honeycomb open source then no one will buy motorola xoom. Its not even about modifiying it on phone OS. Who will waste so much time on that. They not going to give the os out for a while. Better hope VS will make one for us
Have we so quickly forgotten reports that the version of Honeycomb on the Xoom leaves something to be desired?
And witness the results of a phone version of Android with an aftermarket U.I. overlay on our g tablets.
If Google is going to compete with Apple for the mainstream market, they need a good solid operating system with several successful tablet releases to improve customer perceptions.
Much as I love my g tablet, I have no qualms admitting that the iPad is miles better out of the box and that is what the general public wants.
Well finished products and a slick marketing machine are Apple's strengths, underestimate them at your peril.
I don't think Viewsonic are part of the open handset alliance. If they aren't part of the OHA I doubt they're getting access to Honeycomb either.
So now all we have to do is assemble team of highly skilled agents, break into Google's Mountain View complex, and steal the Honeycomb source code... I've seen Mission Impossible and Office Space. It can be done.
Who's with me?
From my CM powered Evo
It's kind of disappointing but it won't keep me from enjoying my G-Tablet.
honey....not right now
i have just taken a bite of gingerbread. i still need sometime to enjoy, do not want to spoil it with honey yet.
The problem isn't that they are not releasing Honeycomb this minute, or this month is they are saying they won't be releasing it anytime soon. Also there is rumors saying they are telling the vendors with HC they will get to keep it to themselves until IC, which is complete BS.
If Google wants to pull that then I will just not spend any money on apps, upgraded phones/tablets until they decide open source is open sourse. I will use they money to donate to dev's instead.
It's just really annoying that we could have people working on HC right now (or maybe a month or 2 from now), but it appears Google thinks HC shouldn't be released and instead kept to itself until the merge in IC. Well if it's not good enough to be open source they shouldn't have released the Xoom and any other HC tablet!
http://androidcommunity.com/google-blocking-android-2-x-to-3-0-updates-for-tablets-20110328/
Just read the above article, wanted to see what other people thought about it. It seems like kind of a kick-in-the-balls plan from google, but then again, I'm not really worried about the G-tab getting an official 3.0 release. Since were using most of the base hardware that 3.0 was designed around, I'm sure someone will get a port eventually, it would just be nice to get a bit more support from the big G.
Well there's always ice cream comb
Ok. Google taking the right steps to be a real threat for mac.
I thought we prefered android because of its differences from mac and not their similarities.
Et tu, Goggle?
And 10.000 Gtabs has been sold at a very big discount one day before this new is made public. Business is business
BR
well this news has a huge suck factor.
Keep in mind that this "news" is just an unsubstantiated rumor. Nothing to see here. Move along.
jsrF1 said:
Keep in mind that this "news" is just an unsubstantiated rumor. Nothing to see here. Move along.
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Click to collapse
Hope it stays unsubstantiated. Otherwise, ginormous suck factor.
As much as I love the honeycomb UI, there is really nothing wrong with 2.2 and 2.3. In fact, to make myself feel better, I just think of honeycomb as android with additional bloatware...which I'm sure is true to a point.
TheFlyingPig said:
As much as I love the honeycomb UI, there is really nothing wrong with 2.2 and 2.3. In fact, to make myself feel better, I just think of honeycomb as android with additional bloatware...which I'm sure is true to a point.
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Click to collapse
I don't care for the UI too but I do care about the Honeycomb optimized apps. This is really the only reason why I wanted Honeycomb.
This is not surprising.
On ZDNET (slash) blog (slash) google (slash) google-android-30-honeycomb-open-source-no-more (slash) 2845
They had to take a lot of shortcuts and strip things down for XOOM to meet the deadline. Just wait for 3.1 when they Open Source it again.
xmr405o said:
I don't care for the UI too but I do care about the Honeycomb optimized apps. This is really the only reason why I wanted Honeycomb.
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Click to collapse
Same here -- it's a waste to not use that increased resolution and screen size on tablet-optimized apps.
beebop483 said:
http://androidcommunity.com/google-blocking-android-2-x-to-3-0-updates-for-tablets-20110328/
Just read the above article, wanted to see what other people thought about it. It seems like kind of a kick-in-the-balls plan from google, but then again, I'm not really worried about the G-tab getting an official 3.0 release. Since were using most of the base hardware that 3.0 was designed around, I'm sure someone will get a port eventually, it would just be nice to get a bit more support from the big G.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They are delaying because the source code isn't ready it will remain open source and available to all devices. Google made that statement 3 days ago. Would post the article but I am on gtab. Either it was on market watch, wall street journal, new York times, eweek, infoworld of another site I frequent.
It is however old news.
I put a post in the one of the threads about the release delay on honeycomb. Google partnered up with LG for doing a Nexus Tablet (supposed to out ~July) and Google will not release honeycomb source till after the release of the Nexus Tab, (~Aug)
Also it mentioned that something about the licensing agreement needed for using 3.x that it cannot be put on a device running 2.x.
lol, like many ppl here are actually waiting for an "official" version.
lordgodgeneral said:
I put a post in the one of the threads about the release delay on honeycomb. Google partnered up with LG for doing a Nexus Tablet (supposed to out ~July) and Google will not release honeycomb source till after the release of the Nexus Tab, (~Aug)
Also it mentioned that something about the licensing agreement needed for using 3.x that it cannot be put on a device running 2.x.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And would you mind sharing the source of these stated facts, or are you merely speculating?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=12457747&postcount=8
Here's the link to my response in the other honeycomb thread.
Here's the link to the actual article
http://thenextweb.com/google/2011/0...-partners-with-lg-to-launch-new-nexus-tablet/
Also anyone should know that until there is an official announcement anything being discussed is speculation, so get off your high horse.
I read that as Google not allowing manufacturers to upgrade 2.x tablets, not they the would not release it to the community until after the Nexus tablet launch.
Also included in Murtazin’s report was the suggestion that Google will not allow tablets running Android 2.x to receive a Honeycomb upgrade in the future. Apparently, if a hardware partner releases a tablet on an older version of Android, the Honeycomb licensing agreement will not allow them to be updated.
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Click to collapse
this seems to be the Google official position about HC:
Google has decided to delay the release of the Honeycomb source-code to the general public for now. If you are a member of the Open Handset Alliance you can get access to 3.0. Also, other manufacturers are able to get access to the source-code upon request, but only for use on tablets. Ultimately, Google wants to avoid contaminating Android's marketing image because some low-end device makers forced out buggy "Honeycomb phones". Here's what Andy Rubin, CEO of Google had to say on the matter,
Android 3.0, Honeycomb, was designed from the ground up for devices with larger screen sizes and improves on Android favorites such as widgets, multi-tasking, browsing, notifications and customization…We didn’t want to think about what it would take for the same software to run on phones. It would have required a lot of additional resources and extended our schedule beyond what we thought was reasonable. So we took a shortcut. While we’re excited to offer these new features to Android tablets, we have more work to do before we can deliver them to other device types including phones… Until then, we’ve decided not to release Honeycomb to open source.
Before anyone could cry foul and compare Google to Apple, Mr. Rubin added,
"[Google is] committed to providing Android as an open platform across many device types and will publish the source as soon as it’s ready."
It is probably a bit nerve racking for developers and enthusiasts that Google has taken this step. It's easy to jump to the conclusion that they intend to begin "locking down" the product, but one could also look at it from the standpoint that Google is serious about protecting 'Andy' from being "dumbed-down" too much. Also, this fine-tuning process will help them nail-down extra security measures to help reduce malware issues in the future. What do you guys think? Is this a signal of sad times for Android, or just smart business strategy?
Source: AndroidTablets.net via AndroidPolice
Its simple really- for any android tablet to compete with the ipad it needs to be semi bulletproof as far as stability goes and quality of UI etc. This is the only way google is going to be able achieve this. They will release it. When they choose is going to be carefully timed.
Hello after hearing about apple reaching 500 billion dollar, my question is what does android need to do to become a serious competitor to apple so that people would rather buy android then an iphone? What does apple have in the iPhone and ipad that android dosent? I would like to see some opinions of what you all think thanks
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Apple has always been the underdog lol Android is still new so it will be at the top in due time.
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reaper24 said:
Apple has always been the underdog lol Android is still new so it will be at the top in due time.
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Click to expand...
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Well in phones I meant ever since the iPhone came out and iPad everyone is going crazy about there products, I'm not sure why when they have no where near the selection of android
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Android users need Watson, that would literally kick the $*it out of siri. I mean that would be amazing- doctors, researchers in the field, really just anyone in the sciences could use it and the average person could enjoy it as well as learn from it. Android is the perfect channel to reach all sectors and the general public with such a new and really amazing technology.
MunkinDrunky said:
Android users need Watson, that would literally kick the $*it out of siri. I mean that would be amazing- doctors, researchers in the field, really just anyone in the sciences could use it and the average person could enjoy it as well as learn from it. Android is the perfect channel to reach all sectors and the general public with such a new and really amazing technology.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes the technology is far past apple, in my opinion android will be the future, I try to write what I imagine in the future of technology but I can't put it in words
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I see Android the same way I do Linux. It will attract the true techies but but for the average user it will not appeal to theme as it takes to much work to get it just right and most people are just to lazy
IMHO is the main difference between android and iOS, that android is more customizable and, with that, its more complicated. So, most people who only want to have a working phone which is looking good and don't want to learn anything bout software will buy an iPhone. Because its simpler.
I think android will be catshing up with apple, because it's only getting better, it is open source, the phones is cheaper and more options to change the apperence of the phone!
Why, isn't it the number one OS yet?
Hey thank you all for your replies, I was at best buy couple week ago and a person was looking to buy a android tablet or an ipad 2, I was next to the person when I was playing with a tablet and he asked me do you no what is better? Ipad 2 or this tablet? (He was looking at the Asus transformer) I told him Asus was, but he end up buying the ipad because his Droid phone always get a virus, freezes and so now he thinks all android are like that....if he only knew
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Android311 said:
Hello after hearing about apple reaching 500 billion dollar, my question is what does android need to do to become a serious competitor to apple so that people would rather buy android then an iphone? What does apple have in the iPhone and ipad that android dosent? I would like to see some opinions of what you all think thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can't entirely confuse profits with marketshare (which Android has 51% of, I think they were saying). Apple is able to get away with a higher price markup for lesser specs because
0) low price elasticity - iSheep will continue to buy and to rationalize their mother company no matter what
1) they're facing no competition from other, similar iPhone makers, unlike android makers who compete with each other in both specs and price
2) they slice down anything that even vaguely resembles competition with lawsuits (even where they're clearly not making iPhones)
3) the brand itself has become so hyped that it's able to continue to get new users - I guess you could count this as marketing
They still have a much greater stranglehold on the pad market, so a lot of the profits probably come from that.
Finally, if you believe this post at least, Apple is able to squeeze more profits from the way our carriers and subsidies work. Nowadays, it's standard for the carrier to bundle phones along with their services, in a dual-pay system (the carrier "subsidizes" part of the phone cost in exchange for a contract). Because of Apple's particular market power (users might switch to another carrier if the other has iPhone and they don't), they are able to demand that carriers subsidize more while taking away the profits. That way, they make more money without directly charging the buyers. Indirectly, of course, the carriers probably pay for this through increased fees in general, which means that everyone ends up sponsoring the iPhone.
In other words, they've successfully managed to implement an "iPhone tax". Isn't bundling the greatest thing ever?
As for how to make Android better, updates and better phone compatibility is definitely an issue. ICS, for example, needed to be available quickly for multiple devices as soon as it's released. There really is no way to do this, except.. release it earlier. Have a completely open beta, like the Linux kernel, so that everyone can get compatibility working from day -100 onwards. If flashiness (and non-copying by Apple) is an issue, at least give the manufacturers early access to it, so that they're able to start working on device compatibility right away.
Meanwhile, unfettered by bureaucracy, custom roms are churning out faster than any manufacturer ever could. You could have updates and features faster than you ever thought possible; the average user, however, doesn't know enough, or isn't confident enough to go through the installation process. Google should include an easy ROM installer/backup utility by default. That way, the users get a full taste of the speed and power of openness, which really is so intoxicating that they'll never go back to a closed system ever again.
(They could even put start posting up their own custom ROMs! Imagine what their developers could do, unhindered by the megacompany issues. We would have updates, the like of which we've never seen before.)
If Android was optimized to run perfectly on one core just like Windows Phone 7 than I can see a lot of people using it. When I talk to Android users who don't know anything about custom roms/root they complain about force closes and applications not working. Also how there phone slows down.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Yeah, agree with two posts above... The slow spread of Android 4.0 is only good for Apple, the big companies should realize that they're depending on the users liking android, and you will not get them to like Android with refusing to give them updates. Sometimes I think they are not able to look into the nearer future to see what's necessary for them...
Sent from my HTC Incredible S using XDA App
great info everyone yes I do notice a bit of a slow down on android 4.0 but I'm on a single core device, hopefully by summer they can find a solution to make android 4.0 more stable and better performance, I feel that the android team is working fast to come up with a software that would bring iPhone users to android, but when iPhone 5 comes out I hope some android phone company's have something up there sleeve that will be able to compete with apple
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*bumping up
Right now there on the right path to becoming number one in the market, what i think they need to do to become number one.
all official releases of android to be the same across all phones, things like TouchWiz to be scraped altogether
moderation on the market to stop useless buggy apps from making the market look bad
an android OS for desktops/laptops that will run consumer products
[\LIST]
Better hardware acceleration on all applications.
I think that iPhone as an advantage : there is only one model.
So you can find dock for desktop, car, audio, ...
Android is only the softwar and each constructor have to make is own accessories and so on.
In my opinion, one major problem of Android devices is about fragmentation.. I hope that Android OEMs can release updates for all devices faster.
mikebzh44 said:
I think that iPhone as an advantage : there is only one model.
So you can find dock for desktop, car, audio, ...
Android is only the softwar and each constructor have to make is own accessories and so on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes that's true but there is more money to be made in the android market rather then the iPhone. There are ALOT of brands and generics that make the same accessorizes for the iPhone and each brand is struggling to make money when they all make the same product, unlike android. Verity is better
Alright, so after reading a couple articles on a bunch of sites. I can sort of understand a vicious cycle that's going on in the mobile development world.
First off, let me begin, Mobile OEMs (as we all know) don't release updates very often. And as a general rule, when they do... it's usually a couple months late. Just look at HTC devices, most of the (somewhat) older devices (depending on what you're definition of older is) aren't getting the updates to ICS for while http://goo.gl/FjcMJ . And in some cases they just decide not to update them at all. (see the Desire HD and possibly the Thunderbolt http://goo.gl/BwZld )
Initially when Android started, this was a little different. And allow me to clarify by going far far back, to the first Android device. The HTC Dream.
It initially came out with Android 1.0 (Astro) it eventually got updated all the way to the software version 1.5 (Cupcake). If you look back then, that's two software updates! Astro to Bender to Cupcake.
Now let's look at just about any other Android device (not made my Samsung, for the most part they're a bad example... (of course then again, they have the head of Cyanogenmod Steve Kondik on their team).
We're going to look at Motorola, because despite the fact that it's owned by Google, not all of their devices have received updates. And the device I've chosen from them is the defy. Now if you look over at the development section of the forums you'll see that we have a working (and apparently a very smooth) port of Jelly Bean for the Defy. http://goo.gl/mE1Qy
But if you decide to see what Motorola's deciding to do to update it from Gingerbread, well... their development section is devoid of everything for the Defy... http://goo.gl/g8XN0
Now why does that matter to us happy go lucky developers and modders? Well let's look over this little scenario I've played out in my head more than once.
CEO#1 "Oh they want Jelly Bean?"
CEO#2 "Yeah they do..."
CEO#1 "So what are we going to do about it?"
CEO#2 *checks XDA* "Nothing, the ones who really care about it have a working ROM up already."
CEO#1 "Okay, sounds good to me. So are you ready to go make some more phones with high specs and outdated software?"
CEO#2 "Well if we start now, we should be able to get six new devices running ICS 4.0.3 out by mid December!"
CEO#1 "Ohh, not even having the latest version of ICS is really going to get them. Brilliant!"
This is a vicious cycle that just keeps going around, and around, and around. The problem is that there doesn't seem to be a way to stop it. While we need Superuser and rooting privileges, we also need updates to the latest version of Android OS to keep us going.
OEMs on the other hand see us as free labor for development and as the only people who really want/need the updates. The problem is that with their history of sending out updates we really can't stop working. And even when they do send out updates, sometimes they aren't even fully stable! (see Evo 3D http://goo.gl/VzCNM )
So the question is, how are we going to stop this?
Buy devices from the companies that keep things up to date. The Nexus gets direct pushes from Google so you know you're good there. Sony has a dedicated line to developers through their forums and even offers devices for temporary dev use and has reasonably priced unsubsidised phones.
Put your dollars in the right places if you want to make change happen. Those who want full access still aren't a large enough part of the market to shape everything. That said, people pushing for control have made sure that iDevices can be jailbroken and HTC is staggering hard because of mis-steps in marketing that have been worsened by lackluster updates and their decision to shun the dev community that was bolstering them.
They can't look at xda or whatever Android forum because there is a larger population of users who have no idea what rooting is, let alone custom ROMs. Those people depend on updates and if they won't get an official update, they won't get one at all.
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If you ask 10 Android users what version of Android they are on, 8 of them will have no clue, 1 will know because the sales rep used it as a selling point, and one of them will be running Jellybean (thanks to XDA!).
Consumer demand is not high enough to demand the cost of testing new software on dated phones. Sad but true.
thebeastglasser said:
OEMs on the other hand see us as free labor for development and as the only people who really want/need the updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If they really saw us as free labor, they would release a phone with cyanogenmod or something and just kang whatever works for their next update. (Actually, this would be a very good idea.)
However, in actuality, they just don't care about the devs. Too busy trying to differentiate their products with custom skins and cause more work for everyone.
It is true that most people don't know much more than that they are are android or "droid", just like many people don't know much more than they have an Iphone. The vocal majority of phone users (online) however have quite a bit more knowledge which means they get much more feedback from the minority.
One of the main reasons (other than price) that I got a Nexus 7 was due to the fact that Google pushes updates immediately to their nexus devices. I see this as an additional "perk".
You can't buy a device Android or other from an OEM or carrier and expect to get the latest greatest updates a or mods any too quickly. Forums and sites like xda bring in developers and users who ate eager to offer mods and help that you will never find coming from the mainstream as quickly or with the same quality. I get the device I want and look to here to make it better quicker.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
But what I see is that there are a bunch of phones that could easily be running better software (like the Defy) but OEMs clearly see that anybody who seems to care enough about updates are doing it themselves. The problem is, there are relatives of mine who refuse to root and yet they know enough about phones to know what version they're running and know the difference between the two versions. The one they currently have, and the one they could have.
I feel like this is kind of unfair to the sed-mentioned people and on top of that, it makes uneducated users buy more phones, while it keeps people like us are at work.
I'd bet that it was a pain in the a** porting ICS to the Desire HD no thanks to HTC, and yet this is just one less job for HTC and a hell of a lot more work for us... That's just me.
And also, that idea for a "pre-kanged" phone or one running a version of Cyanogenmod is pretty good. It'd be a great idea...
Again, speak with your dollars. I have no doubt that Nexus sales will continue to climb not only because of devs, but because people who just end up with them will like seeing timely updates and devices that continue to get better and better. If you want to help the rise of affordable, quality devices then steer others toward them when you can and buy them yourself when it's time for something new.
Also, people on xda do not see development as a "work", they see it as a hobby...
So even if all the phones were on the latest android, the dev community here at Xda would still be hard at "work" to come up with something better...something which the OEM's and Google couldn't think of implementing even with such large resources at their disposal...
And let's face it, apart from games, the general public in large doesn't have "need" for BETTER phones...
I've seen the likes of HTC One X and Galaxy S3 go in the hands of people for whom multitasking would mean chatting on whatsapp while waiting for the fb app to load...
So the question would arise, if the public doesn't "need" better phones, how do we sell it to them?
The answer becomes clear, stop giving them updates...make them feel that their device is outdated...that they "need" a NEW and BETTER phone...
The ones who understand the capability of their phone would have the ability, or more importantly, the will to make the updates happen...
For the rest, well there's fancy advertising...
Hope this clears up...
- Via xda premium
Yeah, I suppose it makes sense. Thanks guys!
How many people are there using Android? About 60% of the market, which means hundred milion users How many members do we have here on XDA? Less than hundred thousands! It means that regular users dont know and dont care what OS they use or even dont know what the update is. Froyo, GB, ICS, JB sound like alien languages for most of regular users. For those who know wat they are using, they are already XDA members, the rest just doesnt care or they just simply buy an iCrapple. Therefore, there is no way you can stop that. Customers are always taken granted by companies.
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Extreemly well put. We all knew it but didn't say anything. I am awaiting the next nexus for this very reason. Props to thebeastglasser
MissionImprobable said:
Again, speak with your dollars. I have no doubt that Nexus sales will continue to climb
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Click to collapse
The bundling is too strong with this market. When there are literally only one or two phone brands, usually otherwise sub-par, that are stock, the voting with dollars won't make much of a difference. It's like voting in an election where a lot of people who might prefer a pure candidate are given tons of reasons to go with more mainstream ones.
So how can change actually be effected? First and most obviously, google might dictate to motorola to make stock phones. Hopefully, that will happen and stock android will start getting a positive reputation for straightforward and automatic upgrades.
The other option starts at grassroots levels: this bundling leaves a gap in the market, and eventually someone should step in to fill that gap. I can imagine small start ups in third-world countries (where price is a real issue) revitalizing older brands with the highest supported cyanogenmod, then selling them at still relatively low prices for a profit. If there is enough demand for this, this "repackaging" business would be emulated all over and the OEMs might start to take a hint.
For the record there are over four million members on XDA...
thebeastglasser said:
For the record there are over four million members on XDA...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not currently active users though. Remember XDA used to make you register to download files so that jacked up the member rate.
thebobp said:
The bundling is too strong with this market. When there are literally only one or two phone brands, usually otherwise sub-par, that are stock, the voting with dollars won't make much of a difference. It's like voting in an election where a lot of people who might prefer a pure candidate are given tons of reasons to go with more mainstream ones.
So how can change actually be effected? First and most obviously, google might dictate to motorola to make stock phones. Hopefully, that will happen and stock android will start getting a positive reputation for straightforward and automatic upgrades.
The other option starts at grassroots levels: this bundling leaves a gap in the market, and eventually someone should step in to fill that gap. I can imagine small start ups in third-world countries (where price is a real issue) revitalizing older brands with the highest supported cyanogenmod, then selling them at still relatively low prices for a profit. If there is enough demand for this, this "repackaging" business would be emulated all over and the OEMs might start to take a hint.
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The Chinese market is already doing that, and with brand new phones that come both rooted and sometimes unlocked. Yes, there are other markets in which this can be done, but it doesn't make sense to talk on the one hand about voting with dollars not making a difference and then saying third-world resellers will change the game.
Google is marketing a clean, recognizable line in their Nexus devices, advertising intelligently, and making sure that they continue to stay on the latest firmware. Supporting them and other companies who do so will dictate what model corporations follow. Again, HTC is eating crow because their abandonment of the dev community and their decision to spread themselves thin, ala Motorola, who are also being dug out of a hole now by Google. I'd say both companies have paid the price for ignoring what the marketplace demands.
Moto had everyone hooked with the original Droid so there is no doubt that share is won or lost by how you approach relevancy for the long run. Go back and look at how many people loved their OG Droids in every way but have now moved on to other brands because of locked bootloaders and lack of firmware updates on the models that followed. Money makes the corporate world go round and every little bit helps.
Grassroots movements have done everything from keeping the iPhone legal to jailbreak to getting a man his goodies when a WP store tried to pull a fast one in regards to him winning the WP challenge to getting VZ to clarify that they wouldn't be doing anything to their Unlimited users. We may not be the majority, but we are far more organized and informed than the masses and as such what we do gets noticed and picked up on by tech, blog, and news coverage. The only ones who don't make change happen are the naysayers who sit by and do nothing. Support the brands that support the customers and devs.
MissionImprobable said:
The Chinese market is already doing that, and with brand new phones that come both rooted and sometimes unlocked. Yes, there are other markets in which this can be done, but it doesn't make sense to talk on the one hand about voting with dollars not making a difference and then saying third-world resellers will change the game.
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Sure voting makes sense.. if you're in another country where the election's not as rigged.
MissionImprobable said:
Again, HTC is eating crow because their abandonment of the dev community and their decision to spread themselves thin, ala Motorola, who are also being dug out of a hole now by Google. I'd say both companies have paid the price for ignoring what the marketplace demands.
Moto had everyone hooked with the original Droid so there is no doubt that share is won or lost by how you approach relevancy for the long run. Go back and look at how many people loved their OG Droids in every way but have now moved on to other brands because of locked bootloaders and lack of firmware updates on the models that followed. Money makes the corporate world go round and every little bit helps.
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I'm not really convinced that Motorola's and HTC's losses were due to locked bootloaders, or even lack of firmware updates. Rather, I think it's due to brand inertia: at some point, Samsung came up with a phone (the Galaxy S2) that was so far ahead of anything else on the market at the time, that they just grabbed market share and brand loyalty from many of the consumers on the market. This has little to do with the Galaxy Nexus, and indeed their "next big thing" has been the horribly backward (from a stock perspective) S3 and the Note.
It's been my perception that there is a strong correlation between developer support and whatever device I want to get next.
When I got my very first phone, it was the Samsung Captivate.
It had (Still has) great dev support. I decided not to wait a month to get the Moto Atrix because, there was no predicting what kind of dev support it would have despite having great specs. I find that (generally speaking) Samsung phones have had strong dev support.
I sort of hate to point this out.. But, if you think the "average consumer" cares about upgrades.. I would be inclined to disagree. A lot of people do care about upgrades.. Myself, my girlfriend, a lot of people who frequent forums in general.
Still, your average consumer is probably more concerned with the screen size than the software it's packing. Even if ICS is "nicer" and "more elegant" there are a lot of people who really don't know or even care what OS their phone is running. As long as they can text and check facebook, they aren't going to be bothered with the small details of "Jellybean" or "ICS"
I have to be completely honest when I admit, if I were a manufacturer.. I don't honestly know how inclined I would be to release OS updates. Not because I want to be an evil corporation and force you to upgrade to get the newest OS.. But, because putting it plain and simply.. It takes time, energy, and money to release an update. If *ANYTHING* goes wrong with the update and even a single person doesn't follow the instructions.. It becomes really hard to prove they are the one at fault. So you spend your time and energy making an update, potentially having more cost incurred due to possibly damaged hardware, and then finally.. wondering how many people really cared in the first place. A lot of people don't care and even won't upgrade their phone because, they perceive it as "a pointless endeavor."
thebobp said:
Sure voting makes sense.. if you're in another country where the election's not as rigged.
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What does this have to do with supporting companies that support us? Voting with your dollars is a metaphor; it doesn't mean that there is an election for phones.
Today the Moto upgrade page changed the status of the AT&T Atrix 2 and Atrix 4G to "Further plans coming soon," so they have reneged on their promise of 3rd quarter of this year. Thanks Moto for heaping a stinking load of cow dung on us. Why did they have people sign up for a soak test that never happened? Here is the upgrade page updated on 22-September-2012.
https://forums.motorola.com/pages/00add97d6c
Unless they plan on going straight to Jelly Bean this is very upsetting.
I'm really hoping that this means we are going straight to JB, but knowing Moto, who knows. I guess we are lucky they haven't relegated us to staying on GB like they did with some of the other devices on that list.
Sent from my MB865 using xda app-developers app
They could've just released the second or first leak as the OTA and unlocked the BL and ppl would've been happy.
Hopefully we get JB... not counting on it though. Good thing i decided to install the leak and SCv7. Thanks to jim and rdavisct and all the devs here.
Motorola sucks! I'm very upset about this.
Sent from my MB865 using xda app-developers app
Other regions are getting ICS rolled out...
Its not moto its at&t, and its at&t about the bootloaders too, the Photon Q is a sprint phone, thats why you can unlock the bootloader.
I'm going to blame the carriers on this one. No other reason moto can roll out ICS to Atrix 2 that are in other regions other then the USA.
FYI: ICS is official in the SEA region as of 11 Sept. The website says Q4 2012, but let me assure you, that is not the case.
Motorola SEA
11 September
Good morning! We are pleased to let our Motorola XOOM2 and ATRIX2 users know that they will be receiving an over-the-air update to Android 4.0 (Ice Cream Sandwich). Users can also do a manual upgrade by going to Settings\About Tablet\Systems Updates. Please note that the upgrade does not allow for a previous version of Android to be re-installed, and we do recommend that users back up their data prior to this upgrade.
For more inquiries please contact our Product Inquiry Hotlines listed in our previous post. Thank you.
Yes, after some reflection the blame should be on AT&T. Atrix 2s all over the world including China, Cambodia, India and more got the ICS update already. So the likely reason is that AT&T blocked the update so people would upgrade to a new phone and extend their contracts. Since I am using an AT&T Atrix 2 (unlocked) in Thailand that is not an option for me. For regular AT&T customers with an Atrix 2, it looks like AT&T scubmagged you.
I am not a litigious person but if AT&T is blocking these updates, there are some grounds for us the consumer for a legal remedy. There are bugs and problems with the current OS and the update is supposed to fix these for us. The fact that AT&T is blocking us from getting them from the manufacturer is a violation and breach of our warranty and grounds for a lawsuit.
I am now a bit more thankful that I moved onto the AHD, however I mourn for all of my Atrix 2 friends here.
The good news is that the A2 community already has two different ICS leaks which have been worked on since early July, so it's not as if the phones can't run ICS at all. Needless to say, AT&T seems to be the culprit for this major hold-up.
Also, @ ajsedlacek, you likely wouldn't be able to sue AT&T for anything. They probably have a clause releasing them from any potential lawsuits once you sign a contract agreement with them.
Agree 100% with this. In the US the carriers hold all the power. None of them are exempt. Heck... look at the BS Verizon pulled with their "Nexus"
All international phones will get updates first for a variety of reasons, with a big reason being the carriers
Sent from my SGH-I777 using xda premium
I think most of us saw this coming. When I woke up this morning and saw the news, it definitely wasn't surprising to me.
My opinion on all of this, screw it. We've got awesome Devs here that are absolutely awesome at what they do, and personally, the LEAKS that we have of ICS are just fine for me.
Also, CM10 from Jim (and others) is right around the corner, and that excites me much more than getting official ICS. Granted it would be nice to have the official version, but there are better things in store for our Atrix 2.
Axis_Drummer said:
I think most of us saw this coming. When I woke up this morning and saw the news, it definitely wasn't surprising to me.
My opinion on all of this, screw it. We've got awesome Devs here that are absolutely awesome at what they do, and personally, the LEAKS that we have of ICS are just fine for me.
Also, CM10 from Jim (and others) is right around the corner, and that excites me much more than getting official ICS. Granted it would be nice to have the official version, but there are better things in store for our Atrix 2.
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I agree 100%.
Sent from my MB865 running CM10
What folks here really need to do, is swallow their 'entitlements' and stop acting like they're "owed" something. It's getting ridiculous, and rather embarrassing to read. You all bought an Atrix 2, that doesn't mean you also purchased the moon and the stars and everything else you've ever wished upon. We get what we get, so don't throw a fit. Whatever comes our way, will be made more amazing by our talented development team. Stop crying about timetables, what you anticipated, and what you feel you deserve. It's a phone for Christ's sake, and to be such malcontents about when we "get this or that" is leaving a rather bitter, self-warranted, rotten taste in the mouth of this forum. Does Motorola suck? Yeah, undeniably so. Does AT&T hold back inexplicably? Certainly. But, you bought the tickets, now take the ride. Stop complaining, or buy another phone. If you're staying with the A2, you can take solace in the fact we have an inarguable competence and talent here, otherwise, take your b¡tching elsewhere. It's growing ever so redundant, and removes from the integrity of everything we've done here, if the threads are flooded with crap like this...
Two bits offered, take 'em or leave 'em...
EDIT: Sorry for the rant, but c'mon, enough is enough.
Sent from my rooted Mayan Calendar
whatever, man
i told my mommy im not getting ics, and she's calling at&t tomorrow :laugh:
souljaboy said:
whatever, man
i told my mommy im not getting ics, and she's calling at&t tomorrow :laugh:
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Case in point. I've seen enough from you already.
Edit: If you're joking around with me, ha-Ha. I hope that's what you're looking for. If not, you have more practice to be done with your reading comprehension.
Sent from my rooted Mayan Calendar
Yeah.., I'm not understanding why everyone is crazy about "OFFICIAL" ICS. We already have a leak or rather 2 that have barely if any bugs and a couple of GREAT rom's based on ICS. Furthermore we have a fully working build of CM10 based of off Jellybean (not counting the camera... yet). Personally I couldn't care less about when an "official" version is released because it won't change anything, and I advise you all to do the same.
Just my 2 cents. Not in response to anybody but just my opinion.
The whole argument about updates being not "promised" and being "gratis" is bogus. So is the argument about manufacturers hands being tied by Google.
Short of a legally enforceable contract, Google as well as the manufacturers do everything in their power to lead people into believing that their phones will be updated to the next version of the OS. Google had announced the Alliance with the declared aim of providing OS updates for 18 months from device release date. Last time I checked, Moto was a part of the alliance. Moto has had the Atrix 2 on its update page since February 2012, if I'm not wrong. At the very least, this is a Gentleman's agreement on the part of Google/manufacturer that our phone will be updated. Now if any manufacturer wants to say that it had made no legally binding committment to update, where is the honour in that? Why should I trust such a corporation with my hard earned money in the future? As far as I'm concerned, there WAS a pomise, either express or implied, to update my phone and the manufacturer has dishonourably reneged.
This appeared on the Moto forum:
"Thank you for being a Motorola Mobility customer. We know you value having the latest and greatest technology on your device. We are working very closely with Google and our carrier partners to bring you the best possible experience on each of our devices powered by Android. This means ensuring that all upgrades and updates enhance device functionality and provide an overall improved experience.
As previously communicated, DROID RAZR, DROID RAZR MAXX, DROID 4, DROID BIONIC, DROID XYBOARD 8.2 and 10.1, and MOTOROLA XOOM WiFI + 3G/4G will be upgraded to ICS. Additional details on timing for these products will be shared at a later date.
To help our customers understand the steps we go through to develop an upgrade, we are describing the high-level process for delivering upgrades below. During this process, we work to ensure that an upgrade is possible, and that it provides a satisfying experience. For each smartphone or tablet currently in the market, you will see updated information on what stage the upgrade plan is in.
* Please note this timing is Motorola Mobility's best estimate and contingent on successful completion of testing.
==> https://forums.motorola.com/pages/00add97d6c"
Clearly that sounds like a promise of OS upgrades to come. So untill my next phone states on the box "This unit will not receive any further OS updates from us" I'll expect the updates to come in a somewhat timely manner.
Updates being free is anouther argument I have never understood, even when accompanied by the inappropriate analogy of PC and Windows OS. Unlike in PCs, mobile device owners are completely dependent on the manufacturer to provide OS updates. The cost of developing updates has obviously already been paid in advance by the device owners - would the manufacturers sell even half the number of devices if they told their customers upfront that they would not provide any updates? These are functionality and security updates to an OS that is still in its infancy on products that cost hundreds of dollars one way or the other.
About manufacturers being hamstrung by Google/carriers, Google has already released the OS source code for manufacturers to do as they please. The carrier argument may be true though - I guess if you buy a subsidized phone, you got to be prepared to pamper to the whims of the carrier.
About the phones getting updates through leaks, I would guess even the people who do not visit xda, who don't know nothing about installing leaks ... deserve to have ICS on their phones?
Apex_Strider said:
What folks here really need to do, is swallow their 'entitlements' and stop acting like they're "owed" something.
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Ummm...Yes, I (we) are owed something. Its called updates and bug fixes.
So far one upgrade with no real fixes...
If you're OK with that, so be it. But don't try to sit here and tell people what they should or should not be doing.
Yes the deb's here have done a great job. Saying that, its not their jobs! It is that of Motorola's and at&TS.
Sent from my MB865 using xda app-developers app
dk-v1 said:
Ummm...Yes, I (we) are owed something. Its called updates and bug fixes.
So far one upgrade with no real fixes...
If you're OK with that, so be it. But don't try to sit here and tell people what they should or should not be doing.
Yes the deb's here have done a great job. Saying that, its not their jobs! It is that of Motorola's and at&TS.
Sent from my MB865 using xda app-developers app
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You've so much to learn, young grasshopper...
The "upgrade" wasn't an 'upgrade', it was a leak, I'm sure you recall this, yeah? If it was an official OTA, and needed "bug fixes", likely we would have already gotten them. What we did, was hack the Moto servers, to 'fish' for updates. We found one (two, to be specific) and nothing subsequent to that is owed to us by Moto or AT&T, because what we found wasn't even intended for use by us -the end consumer. We'll get the release when we get it. My point was for everyone to stop this incessant b¡tching and whining. It's borderline manic...
Sent from my rooted Mayan Calendar
I don't think anyone feels entitled to anything, but it is reasonable to expect some updates and maintenance. Granted we got 2.3.6, but is that really an update when most everyone else at the time was running 2.3.7?
I don't think anyone here questions the contributions made by the devs, nor isn't grateful. I think we're all just frustrated that we're behind the times and know that we have a lot of potential going to waste.
I came from M3 and had a Motorola Cliq XT, so I been through all of this before with Moto and their updates. Fortunately we had Turl (which some of you devs might know), and when I left there about a year ago we had CM7 2.3.7 running great on a phone that had barely a 1/3 of the hardware we have on our A2.
I'm confident we'll move forward, we have some great devs here. We're all entitled to our opinions and expectations, and we all want more because we know we're more than capable of taking advantage of it. I think we just need to organize and focus on what we have going on here at XDA. Personally, I'm excited for CM10 and can't wait to get something more proper running on this piece lol.
Sent from my MB865 using xda app-developers app
Not sure how I feel about this. Mixed feelings here. Their explanations are not very clear.