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How many of you think it would be a good idea for Microsoft to enter the phone hardware market with their own device(s) ? I think the whole partnership strategy is hindering Microsoft's ability to make a huge footprint in the smartphone market. They can innovate OS wise, but the hardware is inherently lacking because of their business model.
I think Microsoft should build it's own really high-end WP7 device to compete directly with iPhone 5 in both hardware design and OS design (they've acheived the OS part already )
I like the design of most of the WP7 phones more than anything offered by the other OS' offer. Yes, I am serious. Smartphones are beginning to look the same for Pete's sake.
If they go with the uniformed model than manufacturer can release a couple dual core phones in a batch with full support of both cores from the OS. WP7 is already fast enough with a single core, with dual core...
They don't need a definitive phone right now, maybe in the future if they really find the need to.
Yes. The Xbox Phone! Soft plusing green behind the windows logo when you press it
You mean KIN? Yeah, that worked out pretty well.
Well the first release of WP7 phones left a lot to be desired If Microsoft were smart they would not have left there fate up to the suppliers.
The suppliers are the ones that have dropped the ball with the first lot of phones by not having one high end product between them.
what are you guys talking about??? Of course Microsoft has its own phone down the pipeline... looky here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opTfPmN0YEM
Do you mean something like the Nexus One idea?
I think the technical preview phones they had looked pretty cool
mike21pr said:
what are you guys talking about??? Of course Microsoft has its own phone down the pipeline... looky here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opTfPmN0YEM
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Nice! haha!
But seriously their hardware is usually top notch, why not?
foxbat121 said:
You mean KIN? Yeah, that worked out pretty well.
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That wasn't WP7 though.
Realistically though, it's not needed. The UI is the same on all the devices, as the features basically of the OS and phone. Microsoft wouldn't be making it either, the Xbox is their product but Foxxcon, Samsung, ATI, and other partners made the 360. Samsung and HTC both made Nexus phones, but also has phones with the same hardware. And LG is just kind of out there...
When this question is asked, I always think - I doubt MS would make it themselves. However, I could see them releasing another manufacturer's phone but repackaged under the MS name (for example, HTC started of like this).
However, the implication of this could be that MS would be seen to be favouring one of its WP7 partners over the others, which would never look good to the others.
Casey
It would definitely be nice, but if you think about it logically and from a business standpoint, it would not be a smart move. A lot of resource, facilities, and new human resources/expertise would be required to develop a new phone from scratch. The equipment alone would cost millions. The WP7 isn't selling so well, so at this point, they shouldn't commit to making one.
MrAndrewAu said:
It would definitely be nice, but if you think about it logically and from a business standpoint, it would not be a smart move. A lot of resource, facilities, and new human resources/expertise would be required to develop a new phone from scratch. The equipment alone would cost millions. The WP7 isn't selling so well, so at this point, they shouldn't commit to making one.
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as much as i like pointing out negatives with wp7, there are no hard sales numbers, ANYWHERE yet. if you're a fan of wp7, and want it to succeed, you have to end the self-fullfilling prophecy. if it's sad enough times, you will be correct, people won't buy and wp7 will die just like kin.
now then.. microsoft making a phone (hardware) would be incredibly stupid. they are too large a company, too slow to adapt, and too disorganized to produce a quality handset in the 2011-12 standard.
htc - excellent choice
samsung - they have a clue
anyothermakerinchina - yep, they can all copy an iphone pretty handily
there is absolutely no need in making their on phone. give the new wp7 a chance, like till Christmas this year before you call it dead. IF there still aren't any sales numbers officially quoted from M$, then you can call it dead.
It really does need one years maturity and UPDATES to prove if the company is committed or not. Saying "we're committed !" to the press is complete bull**** from _ANY_ company, and we should know this by now. ;-)
ohgood said:
htc - excellent choice
samsung - they have a clue
anyothermakerinchina - yep, they can all copy an iphone pretty handily
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I laughed. You don't seriously consider any of the HTC Windows Phone 7 devices better than the what Samsung or LG offer.. Right?
In any case, there are salesnumbers. 1.5 million devices were shipped to retailers in the first six weeks. One can only assume that most, if not all, of these were also sold to actual consumers considering it was near impossible to get your hands on a device in the beginning. Stores took deliveries of a box or two of phones rather than the hundreds they had ordered.
The Windows Phone Facebook page which shows the number of monthly users using the built-in facebook feature, is currently at 356994 users. I think that's close to the amount of actual handsets sold to consumers.
@vbetts and @Casey_boy:
I'm not speaking of manufacturing the phone. We all know that actual phone components and parts come from all over the place and OEMs. I'm speaking of designing and branding their own device (like the Zune HD).
MS needs to design a high-end physically attractive device. The current crop of WP7 phones don't seem like all-out efforts to impress. They're all generic designs.
Cruzer1 said:
The Windows Phone Facebook page which shows the number of monthly users using the built-in facebook feature, is currently at 356994 users. I think that's close to the amount of actual handsets sold to consumers.
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Very doubtful. I'd say that's about 5%
vetvito said:
Very doubtful. I'd say that's about 5%
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I've never used the facebook app on there... why would I with the epic facebook integration... its selling quite well because unlike other OSes it really brings something new to the table.
vetvito said:
Very doubtful. I'd say that's about 5%
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I don't see 7 mill units sold, if it was balmer would have thrown the number next to kinect at ces
Sent from my Nero powered Vibrant
lqaddict said:
I don't see 7 mill units sold, if it was balmer would have thrown the number next to kinect at ces
Sent from my Nero powered Vibrant
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True, no where near 7 million.
I was a little too conservative. There is a article on this.
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OK just found out that the Facebook attachment/usage rate for Android is 35-50%, and 50% for iPhone, 20-40% for other IOS users. Do the math and the numbers don't look pretty at all.
WhyBe said:
@vbetts and @Casey_boy:
I'm not speaking of manufacturing the phone. We all know that actual phone components and parts come from all over the place and OEMs. I'm speaking of designing and branding their own device (like the Zune HD).
MS needs to design a high-end physically attractive device. The current crop of WP7 phones don't seem like all-out efforts to impress. They're all generic designs.
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The Zune HD is a foxxcon product. Microsoft paid, branded, and designed it, but Foxconn built it.
Don't know if anyone's heard but apparently Microsoft is taking full advantage of webOS's fall. They are offer development free tools, phones and etc. Wow they waste no time.
Here's a link to the article.
http://www.gsmarena.com/microsoft_o...nd_training_to_webos_developers-news-3026.php
DroidFreek said:
Don't know if anyone's heard but apparently Microsoft is taking full advantage of webOS's fall. They are offer development free tools, phones and etc. Wow they waste no time.
Here's a link to the article.
http://www.gsmarena.com/microsoft_o...nd_training_to_webos_developers-news-3026.php
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Tell me about it. I do respect them on what their doing. Great devs lose their jobs, so they're up for grabs.
Microsofts making all the right moves.
Exactly, playing it smart.
Agree, smart move, but Android won't lose market share easily..
Only a plus to Microsoft.
yukinok25 said:
Agree, smart move, but Android won't lose market share easily..
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Oh not at all. Microsoft has a long way to go to catch up with the Android and Apple.
Honestly I feel the only reason Microsoft is down in the smartphone game is because
1- They don't advertise as much
2- They don't have a radically new WP7 that draws users to the phone
3- If they bundled their phones with computer sales, it would allow customers to easily jump into the os.
If they saw those three points and worked on them, it would send them up there with the big boys.
Problem is every court hates ms for integrating software into windows; you think giving away a basic phone with every dell will ease those tensions? Unfortunately, ms can't get away with the crap apple does with every pc, ipod, iphone and ipad.
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russ18uk said:
Problem is every court hates ms for integrating software into windows; you think giving away a basic phone with every dell will ease those tensions? Unfortunately, ms can't get away with the crap apple does with every pc, ipod, iphone and ipad.
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That's understandable. Still, it then goes back to advertising. It seems as if MS wants people to magically know about their devices.
I've only seen a commercial for the Surround about 5 times and that was it.
I'd be so pissed if I was a webOS developer. Excited to see more/better apps for Windows Phone.
but with this microsoft did a step forward, it could help to get some DEVs but i dont think that it will get better then GOOGLE OS
I had a palm treo as my first smart phone and it ran windows. it was terrible.. I'm sure they have gotten better, but that phone gave me a sour opinion on windows phones.. not so good then probably not so good now.. but it does make me curious to playing with a windows phone next time im at a best buy or other retail store with one on display..
Windows phones, just like android, are at their full potential when custom roms are created. I think if they were more devs into the os it could compete.
Why get off one sinking ship to get on another sinking ship?
"Why get off one sinking ship to get on another sinking ship?" vetvito
you think Mango will sink?
No money to be made there, just like WebOS. You get customers first, the devs will follow.
Microsoft should come back. Competition keeps the others sharp.
I kind of pity all of those developers who spent months developing for WebOS only to have it be trashed.
1.2 billion down the drain....
...wow just read up on all the money hp used to buy and develop webOS that number was just for the purchase of Palm inc.
MS says Google's Motorola division violates its patents. Looks like MS is angry they didn't get to corner Google in that Nortel deal and is doing an Apple.
http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/20...la-s-android-phones-infringe-its-patents.html
MartyLK said:
MS says Google's Motorola division
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That sale went through quick.
I'm sick of lawsuits...
We seriously need some patent reform...
"Microsoft, with less than 2 percent of the market, is counting on an agreement with Espoo, Finland-based Nokia Oyj (NOK) to put Windows Mobile on its phones to increase market share."
Goodbye SymbianOS?
TheMavic said:
We seriously need some patent reform...
"Microsoft, with less than 2 percent of the market, is counting on an agreement with Espoo, Finland-based Nokia Oyj (NOK) to put Windows Mobile on its phones to increase market share."
Goodbye SymbianOS?
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old news, go Microsoft. Its about time we have a good OS to sale phones rather than "oh the HTC herpderp has a dual core processor and so much ram." doesn't matter if the OS isn't optimized.
z33dev33l said:
old news, go Microsoft. Its about time we have a good OS to sale phones rather than "oh the HTC herpderp has a dual core processor and so much ram." doesn't matter if the OS isn't optimized.
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Cool story bro.
Smart move by MS with the tiles and such, must've saved a lot of money to hire some first graders to design the home screen!
slapshot30 said:
Cool story bro.
Smart move by MS with the tiles and such, must've saved a lot of money to hire some first graders to design the home screen!
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Pwnage of epic proportions!
Petty remark made by someone who never has anything to offer? Shocking.
It must have saved google a ton of money to take bunch of code and programs that are already out there, compile it, and treat it as though it's something new and amazing.
Its nice to have an OS that's nice, smooth, and built from the ground up for my device.
z33dev33l said:
Petty remark made by someone who never has anything to offer? Shocking.
It must have saved google a ton of money to take bunch of code and programs that are already out there, compile it, and treat it as though it's something new and amazing.
Its nice to have an OS that's nice, smooth, and built from the ground up for my device.
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Lol your fanboism is actually comical. Carry on, I like to laugh.
z33dev33l said:
Petty remark made by someone who never has anything to offer? Shocking.
It must have saved google a ton of money to take bunch of code and programs that are already out there, compile it, and turn it into something new and amazing.
Its nice to have an OS that's nice, smooth, and built from the ground up for my device.
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Fixed it for accuracy
The stupid thing is, MS could have been market leader 5 years ago if they only took their mobile operations seriously. They never have and I doubt they ever will. They just needed a decent interface, a deal with a book wholesaler to supply their reader, a deal with a music reseller and an app store so they could have bought handango. To bad instead they chose to take a giant leap backwards.
In all fairness, when Microsoft actually recovers from that 2‰, Android will already be in a new generation. Motorola is but a fraction of the massive companies that are backing Android and they all are contributing constantly to better innovations for the OS.
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I think MS have to stock up there device pallet , the devices are cheap ( thats why i bought them ) but today a mobile phone became a status sign( Iphone ), so MS have too make there devices ,,cool,, , means they have too send some phons for free to ABC VIPS ( Iphone ) and the the problem is solved . But i hope the price will stay cheap as in the moment ^^ but with a market who google has to defend android phones get maybe cheaper too , cool for android and wp users ^^. Before the Iphone everybody look where i get the most features for the best price but today sm changed and i dont know what ^^ some answers plz
Software patents are the biggest load of **** I've seen in a long time. If you learn how to write, for example, a search algorithm in college and then use it in a commercial app, too bad if the guy sitting next to you in class has been granted the patent for it. Doubly bad if you invented it and weren't smart enough to get to the patent office before them.
Seriously Apple own patents for such inane **** as "method for interacting with a portable device via touchscreen" and "power management of portable devices". So watch out if you produce a touchscreen phone with power management. If you put any code in there which acts similar to Apples they will sue you sooner or later.
It's about as stupid as allowing Ford to take out a patent on having four wheels on a car.
I'm also pretty sure the Judges who hear these cases know so much about programming they can make informed judgements of these cases ... not. It's all about which legal team can spin the must bull**** to befuddle the courts.
Sent from my Cyanogenmod hungry Htc Sensation.
z33dev33l said:
Petty remark made by someone who never has anything to offer? Shocking.
It must have saved google a ton of money to take bunch of code and programs that are already out there, compile it, and treat it as though it's something new and amazing.
Its nice to have an OS that's boring, bleak, and has no apps.
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I don't follow you... I like customizing my electronics and personalizing them. But if the whole one size fits all thing works for you, then great! (You're in the minority on that one)
slapshot30 said:
I don't follow you... I like customizing my electronics and personalizing them. But if the whole one size fits all thing works for you, then great! (You're in the minority on that one)
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28 percent of iPhone users have still not added even a wallpaper to their phones, over 90 percent of android users are still running the stock rom and im sure if the study was done you'd find that a large portion of them haven't done much more than add some icons to the homescreen and perhaps toss up a wallpaper. People as a whole by android because they're the free phones you get at most carriers. Your choices are either a feature phone, blackberry, or one of the 30 android devices they have up (or perhaps the one or 2 wp7 devices that they have there but most in-store carriers are still running those at 99 with a 2 year contract.) iPhones are a status symbol. I'll never understand how a phone who's only redeeming quality is pixel density and a junk filled app market (how many tap the trigger to fire a gun games do you need?) got that way but hey, apple is good at marketing. Microsoft wanted to build an OS that sells phones, not the other way around. They hit the nail on the head, unfortunately my toothbrush is more intelligent than the average consumer so well continue to see blind, stupid purchases until Microsoft either gets a marketing team that's not largely run by chimps or they saturate the hell out of the market like android has.
I'll agree about the average consumer in the USA being an idiot. It's clear that not many actually research a product before buying (especially like a phone that will be used every single day for around two years). Beats and Apple are perfect examples. But I just don't see MS ever catching up. Look at all the brands that make Android phones and how many varieties are out there. You're right, so that is why Android sells more because of vast selection. The selection on Android phones will continue to grow. The iPhone's popularity will inevitably grow. I just don't see any room for MS in the mobile market... Especially with the lack of marketing put forth as oppose to Apple and Android. Hell, maybe someone will see a commercial with the WP7 tiles and say "Hey, that looks cool, I want to check it out". But that won't happen, because they never see those commercials. I agree with what someone said before, MS just doesn't seem to put enough effort forth, just like before with Windows Mobile.
z33dev33l said:
Microsoft wanted to build an OS that sells phones, not the other way around.
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Wish they had.
There were some adverts for WP7 over here but they didn't last long, they may have been pulled by the ASA due to the false claims they made or due to lack of interest.
MS have even resorted to using the US version of their "We turned your front room into a W7 shop" rather than the short lived UK version.
The I'm a PC campaign (not the "and Windows 7 was my idea" ones) was really good, it didn't derride other computer systems like the awful mac/pc ones, so their marketting team can get things right, they just need a decent product to work with though and WP7 just isn't inspiring. Of all the smartphone users I know only 2 have WP7 devices. Over here handsets are often free, even the iphone so price doesn't really come into it.
z33dev33l said:
Petty remark made by someone who never has anything to offer? Shocking.
It must have saved google a ton of money to take bunch of code and programs that are already out there, compile it, and treat it as though it's something new and amazing.
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They haven't though, have they?
Motorola already had patents saved away for whatever reasons, probably saw this coming and it was an entrepeneurial decision to hold company value later. Al Google did was take info from a dying company and carry it on. Let's face it, If Google let Apple get hold of such info it would privatised and charged for, for many years.
Android is the only way forwards, Nokia were the biggest phone manufacturer say 10 years ago and now they're a distant memory. Apple were only successful because of compatibility within their network of products... people pay for convenience. Once other manufacturers adopt this policy then Apple has no advantage. I know Apple have a patent for technology where hovering your finger above the screen is sensed by the device and selects whatever 'tile' your finger is above. There's no call for it right now but in a few years? If Apple go bust in that time (I know, VERY unlikely) then it's this type of stuff they sell to stay afloat. What if MS bought such info? MS fanboi's wouldn't grumble
Microsoft will be an irrelevant company over the course of the next 10 years.
Steve.X10 said:
They haven't though, have they?
Motorola already had patents saved away for whatever reasons, probably saw this coming and it was an entrepeneurial decision to hold company value later. Al Google did was take info from a dying company and carry it on. Let's face it, If Google let Apple get hold of such info it would privatised and charged for, for many years.
Android is the only way forwards, Nokia were the biggest phone manufacturer say 10 years ago and now they're a distant memory. Apple were only successful because of compatibility within their network of products... people pay for convenience. Once other manufacturers adopt this policy then Apple has no advantage. I know Apple have a patent for technology where hovering your finger above the screen is sensed by the device and selects whatever 'tile' your finger is above. There's no call for it right now but in a few years? If Apple go bust in that time (I know, VERY unlikely) then it's this type of stuff they sell to stay afloat. What if MS bought such info? MS fanboi's wouldn't grumble
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I'm sorry, you just defended android with the argument that people "pay for convenience." that alone is comical.
And that's exactly what google did...
OK we all know Android and iPhone are at the top right now but this poll isn't about them at all. this thread has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not WP8 or BB10 will outsell any other type of OS
Strictly speaking of Microsoft's upcoming Windows Phone 8 and RIM'S upcoming BlackBerry 10, which of these do you think are going to dominate in sales between these two in 2013? Both companies are promising a completely new and different OS than their previous smartphones. Which will prove the winner?
BB still has a lot of people pulling for it. I have to say the mock-up teaser video that they released and some of the proprietary apps look promising.
Windows has been lackluster so far, but I'm sure they will have some kind of promotion going on with Win 8 and their phones to try and get them into more consumer's hands.
If BB can release a strong set of apps initially on good hardware with a modern-looking intuitive interface then I think they will win in terms of sales over the next year, especially if their security and encryption is up to snuff. Even know a lot of corporate honchos are still BlackBerried up.
I think WP8 will beat out BB10. RIM has their entire existence riding on 10.
RIM still has a vastly superior advantage over Microsoft, at least as far as businesses go. I think RIM could cater only to businesses and still remain profitable.
Minions said:
RIM still has a vastly superior advantage over Microsoft, at least as far as businesses go. I think RIM could cater only to businesses and still remain profitable.
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I think RIM is gasping some air before they will expire, I used to have over 100 BB messenger buddies, by the time I left them I was left with 5, its a slow and painful death but sooner or later it will happen
I think I can honestly say...
Neither.
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Well Nokia does have pretty good adverts for wp7 (like deadmau5 presentation in London). Maybe they can do the same with wp8.
Wp8 has a better chance.
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Both will probably fail.
I've used a Lumia and it's a wonderful device. Unfortunately, the app store was atrocious. Seriously, no Dropbox? When all your friends and family are enjoying newly released apps, you will feel left out. If you're lucky, you'll get that app a few months down the line. But by then, all your friends and family will move on to other apps.
BB10 could also be wonderful, but without serious developer support, it's going nowhere.
Developers won't make apps because there's no one to buy them. But no one buys the phone because there's no good apps. It's a vicious cycle.
RIM is just going to have to find the capital somewhere to make it happen. The good thing for Windows is that they can subsidise the handsets and keep the prices low just to get them into people's hands. They were even giving them away for trade of any smartphone; the fact that they didn't get a really high number of takers on that offers speaks to where WP is right now, though.
Anyway, RIM needs to be all in on this and do it right from the start to have any chance.
Before we delve too deeply off topic into speculating whether or not both will fail, keep in mind the topic deals with which of these 2 platforms would pull ahead of the other. Personally my money is on MS simply because they have more monetary muscle to throw around and their massively dominant presence as a computer OS worldwide both in homes and businesses is larger than RIM'S blackberry phone user base. All RIM really has are phones while MS can use their software business to push their windows phone. It's a make it or break it for RIM while MS can still chug along as a giant PC windows company regardless.
A good indicator so far is how big name developers are already getting on board for WP8 before it has even come out while RIM is still struggling to get them to sign up on BB10. It should prove to be an interesting battle
I think WP 8 will be more mature than BB OS 10 but im waiting for the OS wars to fire up a lot more competition lately
Huh, I thought I'd be with the majority when I chose Blackberry 10. Maybe it's just my outdated notion that every business person is carrying around a blackberry still, I should know that Android and iOS dominate the market now. I think.
Windows Phone 8
I think it's hands-down Windows Phone 8. MS already has a good base to build from in WP7 -- I've used it before and I think it's actually very good. BB only has the enterprise security thing going for them, which everybody else is catching up on pretty quickly.
Depends how strong the bundling effects of Windows 8 (and xbox) are, which is also up in the air. If microsoft do manage to integrate multiple devices seemlessly, their existing market share lock-in would surely push WP8 beyond blackberry.
As for who emerges victorious, hopefully Firefox OS.
Windows Phone 8 is coming. Vey fast and stable system
Wp8 has a better chance
piotr21l said:
Wp8 has a better chance
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if I really have to pick one - I will WP8. BB10 is outdated and/or late too. WP8 still will need atleast another year or so to become mature. both of them are not candidates to beat the current leaders for sure like someone said.
WP8 definitely.
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in my opinion wp8 better than bb10.
OMG...anyone got one of those Microsoft fanboy friends where they just won't shut up? Everything that isn't Microsoft is crap and everything that is Microsoft is superior. We i've got one... it just seems to be hyped up more with new windows 8 phones coming out.. Now i'm not anti Microsoft i like the OS and use it everyday however i don't think that there isn't any faults and that everything within it is perfect! I I I .Kill me now.
I have friends that think Apple is perfect Lol. I love Windows, but Microsoft is FAR from perfect.
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A) People are not going to agree 100% all the time because its just human law and honestly it would be boring. Debates spark knowledge where you learn more than agreeing because means you know.
B) Posting this in the android forums is useless. You'd get better answers in the windows. Maybe some threats too.
C) Android user's need a pc and since google doesn't have one, we use windows. Windows and Android people are allies in the war against apple.
D) If you really can't stand up for android, bring up the Zune. End of debate.